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Florida Attorney General tells State Supreme Court that carrying a gun is always presumed to be a crime, even with a carry license.

Florida Carry

Florida Carry

Florida - -(Ammoland.com)- Florida --(Ammoland.com)- FL Attorney General Pam Bondi’s position is that anyone carrying a gun should always be presumed to be a committing a felony. And apparently, everyone is carrying…

[A]n overwhelming majority of Floridians are not licensed to carry concealed weapons. As of August 31, 2012, the number of concealed weapon or firearm permits issued in Florida is 971,263. Where Florida had an estimated population of 19,057,542 in 2011, the percentage of the population that is licensed to carry a concealed weapon is only five percent (5%). Given the small percentage of the population that is licensed to carry a concealed firearm, the overwhelming majority of firearms, or 95%, are not licensed to be concealed. Thus, an officer’s suspicion that a firearm is not licensed would be reasonable because, in any given case, there would be, statistically speaking, a 95% likelihood of illegality.
State’s Brief on the Merits, Mackey v. State SC12-573 (Fla 2012) (internal citations omitted, emphasis added)

Obviously, this cannot go without answer. ”What will be our reply?!” you ask…

It has been said that figures lie and liars figure. This statement has never been more appropriate than in response to the State’s contention that 95% of firearms in Florida are not licensed to be concealed. (State’s brief Pg. 20). Such a statement requires ignoring basic rules of statistics, ignoring the lack of available data, ignoring the fact that there is no requirement to license individual guns in the state (doing so is a felony, See Sec. 790.335, Fla. Stat.), and ignoring the fact that some people own multiple guns.

The State’s argument is that because only 5% of the population of Florida, holds a CWFL there is a 95% likelihood that a person with a firearm is committing a crime. Such a statement relies on several assumptions that are easily dismissed as common sense. In order for the State’s argument to be valid, one would first have to ignore all visitors to our state from the 35 states with reciprocity. One would also have to ignore all of the circumstances where no license is required to possess a firearm.Furthermore, the State’s argument also assumes that every man, woman and minor child is carrying a firearm at all times. Only by ignoring these statistical values and making a ridiculous assumption, could the State validate its absurd statistical argument that 95% of persons carrying firearms are doing so illegally.
Amicus Curiae Florida Carry, inc.’s Brief in Support of Appellant, Mackey v. State SC12-573 (Fla 2012) (emphasis added)

Our Attorney General says that not only do police and prosecutors have reasonable suspicion to frisk you any time you carry in FL, but that carrying also gives probable cause to search and arrest!

Thus, the crime of carrying a concealed weapon is complete upon proof that the defendant knowingly carried a firearm that was concealed from the ordinary sight of another person. Accordingly, as held by the Third District, knowledge of the absence of a concealed weapons permit is not required in order for an officer to conduct an investigatory stop.

[P]ossession of a firearm did not amount merely reasonable suspicion, but to probable cause. See, e.g., State v. Navarro, 464 So. 2d 137 (Fla. 3d DCA 1985) (holding that a police officer’s observation of a bulge under the clothing of an individual, which the officer in his training and experience determined to be “the outline of a firearm[,] amounted to probable cause to believe that the individual was carrying a concealed weapon, justifying not merely a pat-down, but a search”).
State’s Brief on the Merits, Mackey v. State SC12-573 (Fla 2012) (emphasis added)

Our answer… Shall not be Infringed!

The rights of Floridians to keep and bear arms are well recognized in the U.S. and Florida Constitutions as well as in Florida general law. To allow detentions and arrests based solely on a person’s possession of a firearm without more, and then to require a person to prove through an affirmative defense that their possession of the firearm was lawful would swallow whole the right. As inconvenient as it might be, the need for enforcement of firearms laws preventing carrying by the unlawful and unskilled, must sometimes give way to the God-given right of the people to both lawfully keep and bear arms, and be free from unreasonable searches and seizures.

The state’s position can be summed up that in order for a citizen to exercise their right under the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution and Article I Sec. 8 of the Florida Constitution, the citizen must give up their rights under the Fourth Amendment, to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. According to the Attorney General, persons in possession of a firearm should be presumed to be committing a crime, and should be required to prove before a court of law that their conduct is in fact lawful. Should the Court find in the State’s favor in this case, this would be the first time in American jurisprudence that the exercise of a fundamental individual right has required the abdication of another fundamental right.
Amicus Curiae Florida Carry, inc.’s Brief in Support of Appellant, Mackey v. State SC12-573 (Fla 2012) (emphasis added)

But AG Bondi’s office says:

The Florida concealed weapon or firearm license application requires an applicant to read and become knowledgeable of the provisions of Chapter 790, Florida Statutes and includes a copy of the statutes in that chapter in the application.

see also State v. Williams, 794 N.W.2d 867, 876 (Minn. 2011) (Page, J., concurring) (“[I]t is likely to come as a shock to all those people who have obtained a permit to carry, hold, or possess a pistol in a public place that by carrying, holding, or possessing the permitted pistol in a public place they subject themselves to arrest.” … ).

State’s Brief on the Merits, Mackey v. State SC12-573 (Fla 2012) (emphasis added)

This is why we need you to Join Florida Carry Now. Otherwise we can’t continue to do our work fighting these issues.

Our Amicus Brief has already been filed with the FL Supreme Court.

About: Florida Carry, Inc. is a non-profit, non-partisan, grassroots organization dedicated to advancing the fundamental rights of all Floridians to keep and bear arms for self-defense as guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article I Section 8 of the Florida Constitution. Florida Carry stands only to represent our supporters, members, and the over 7-million gun owners of Florida. We are not beholden to any national organization’s agenda that may compromise that mission.

Florida Carry works tirelessly toward striking down ill-conceived gun control laws that have been proven to provide safe havens to criminals and be deadly to law-abiding citizens.

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  • 10 User comments to “Florida Attorney General Tells State Supreme Court Carrying A Gun Is Always A Crime”

    1. Wendy Weinbaum on October 9, 2012 at 3:36 PM said:

      As a Jewess in the US, I can only say that anti-gun NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg is an embarrasment to all American Jewry. People like HIM are why all REAL Americans now put our 2nd Amendment FIRST! Remember that America wasn’t won with a registered gun!

    2. Wendy Weinbaum on October 9, 2012 at 3:37 PM said:

      And this illiterate “Attorney General” is no damn better!

    3. Good thing we put a Republican in the AG’s office, right?

      Right?

    4. [...] Attorney General argues that carrying a gun is always a crime http://www.ammoland.com/2012/10/08/florida-attorney-general-carrying-a-gun-is-always-a-crime/#axzz28… Interesting. FLoridians… RISE UP! __________________ NRA Certified [...]

    5. Wendy Weinbaum on October 10, 2012 at 2:47 PM said:

      You are right, of course, Frank. But, I can’t help it that she is a dirty disingenous lying slut. She really ought to be running for President on the Democratic ticket!

    6. justathinker on October 10, 2012 at 5:28 PM said:

      Incorrect logic. Correct would be that only 5% of PEOPLE are licensed for Concealed Carry, not 5% of WEAPONS. The question that is not answered here is: What percent of people found carrying are not licensed?
      Until that is answered, I’ll assume that 95% of Bondi’s security team are not licensed to carry and should be treated as armed felons.

    7. justathinker on October 10, 2012 at 6:13 PM said:

      And when an LEO approaches me with his hand on HIS gun, he needs to know what percent of PEOPLE are carrying dangerous. His presumption of my guilt (instead of judicious caution) serves neither of us, nor our Constitutional Republic.

    8. JOHN THE FOX on October 15, 2012 at 5:48 PM said:

      OBVIOUSLY THIS IS EVEN MORE EVIDENCE THAT BLONDS SHOULD NOT SPEAK, FOR THEY CANNOT THINK. BLONDS ARE ONLY GOOD FOR LOOKING UPON IN BONDAGE VIDS AND NOT AS POLITICIAN!

    9. JOHN THE FOX on October 15, 2012 at 5:51 PM said:

      GOD THOUGHT WOMEN SHOULD NOT SPEAK NOR BE IN AUTHORITY OVER MEN. 1ST TIMOTHY CHAPTER 2. SO I’M IN GOOD COMPANY! THAT’S FOR ALL YOU MAN HATERS OUT THERE AND DAMN DEMS.

    10. Pam Bondi’s ideas are her’s alone, if they are hers. If you take her argument to its logical conclusion, then the person being stopped can assume that the person stopping them is not a Law Enforcement Officer because less that 1% of persons in florida is an Officer. Also, her 5% figure does not include members of thousands of State & Federal Law enforcement agencies, tens of thousands of retired law enforcement officers, carrying under a Federal Law commonly known as HR218, and others legally carrying under other provisions of law. The 2nd amendment trumps all of the above though.

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