Taurus Settlement and Drop-Safety Recall

By John Farnam

Taurus PT 609 9Mm In Shadow Gray With Titanium Slide
Taurus PT 609 9Mm In Shadow Gray With Titanium Slide, is included in the current Taurus recall.
Defense Training International, Inc
Defense Training International, Inc

Ft Collins, CO –-(Ammoland.com)- Brazilian-made Taurus pistols have been with us for several decades, enjoying a spotty reputation.

Their striker-fired “PT” line has represented, for most consumers, a low-cost alternative to Glocks, XDs, M&Ps, SIG 320s, Kahrs, et al

Over the past few years, Taurus PT Pistols have been implicated in a number of “drop-safety” incidents, both in the USA and Brazil. Taurus has paid out several substantial settlements as a result.

However, the latest is a class-action matter in which Taurus has agreed to pay out a settlement of over thirty million dollars, plus agree to recall at least a half million pistols already in consumers’ hands.

As noted, the issue is “drop-safety.”

The question on the floor is:

“Do American consumers have an inherent right to expect that any modern pistol, intended for serious purposes and in current production, be mechanically immune from trauma-induced discharges?”

In other words, should a pistol be safe from discharging as a direct result of an external blow, such as would occur when the pistol is accidentally dropped onto a hard surface?

US courts have consistently said “Yes,” to that question! This latest “settlement” by Taurus puts a stinging exclamation point at the end of that single-word reply!

I have been involved in a number of civil cases, where it was alleged that a pistol discharged when dropped. Most involved Glocks. In every case, the allegation was proven false. The plaintiff was simply lying, along with his sleazy lawyer! In every one of those cases, the defense team was able to persuasively demonstrate the discharge in question was a direct result of pressure being applied to the trigger, and no other reason.

I tell students that all modern pistols of reputable manufacture, including Glock, SIG, S&W, FNS, Walther PPQ, SA/XD, Kahr, Beretta, et al, are designed to be mechanically drop-safe. While we don’t deliberately drop pistols, to test the theory, over nearly fifty years I have witnessed many pistols accidentally dropped during training, and never once observed a discharge as a result, with any brand.

In fact, I advise students to let a pistol drop to the ground when they lose control of it, rather than fumble with it in an attempt to regain control. The risk of an AD during fumbling far exceeds the risk of an AD when the dropped pistol strikes the ground!

It now appears, at least with some Taurus pistols, that may not be good advice!

Not many of my students bring Taurus PT pistols to Class. However, as a result of this recent revelation, I now tell them to either send it back to Taurus to get fixed, or bring another brand of gun!

SA (Springfield Armory), manufacturers of the excellent XD line of pistols, ran into a similar issue two years ago. SA found it necessary to recall their XD/S.

Springfield Armory 3.3 XD-S Pistol
Springfield Armory 3.3 XD-S Pistol

A single customer, an XD/S owner, said he experienced a “slam-fire” with his XD/S pistol during the normal loading process. No injury nor property damage resulted, but SA still asked the customer to send the weapon back to them, which he did. During subsequent thorough testing at the factory, with all brands of ammunition, SA was unable to duplicate the reported slam-fire, with the pistol in question, nor with any other copy of the XD/S tested. No other slam-fire incidents, other than the single one mentioned above, have ever been reported. Unlike in Taurus’ case, there was never any civil litigation.

Nevertheless, engineers at Springfield Armory recommended to management that a small design change be implemented with the XD/S that would make the pistol absolutely drop-safe, and thus altogether immune from slam-fires and other trauma-induced ADs.

Springfield Armory courageously decided to voluntarily recall the XD/S for retrofit at the factory. The recall was done professionally, and included my copy. All work was done at no charge. Shipping was pre-paid, both ways.

Springfield Armory deserves a lot of credit for, at great expense, quietly and professionally correcting this ostensible design error, an error which, as noted above, is probably mostly imaginary.

Of course, we see automakers doing recalls all the time. In designing and manufacturing cars and guns, not all outcomes are foreseeable, no matter how much “computer simulation” we do!

I want all gun manufacturers to be widely successful! I’m sure Taurus will correct this problem, and that top management has learned the lesson, albeit belatedly.

Yes, guns are inherently dangerous. A fact not in dispute! But, mechanical drop-safety in serious, defensive pistols is, and should be, a universal requirement.

While there are never any guarantees, any pistol that fails that test is one I will never own!

“Doubt is not the opposite of faith; it is an element of faith.” ~ Paul Tillich

/John

About John Farnam & Defense Training International, Inc
As a defensive weapons and tactics instructor John Farnam will urge you, based on your own beliefs, to make up your mind in advance as to what you would do when faced with an imminent and unlawful lethal threat. You should, of course, also decide what preparations you should make in advance, if any. Defense Training International wants to make sure that their students fully understand the physical, legal, psychological, and societal consequences of their actions or inactions.

It is our duty to make you aware of certain unpleasant physical realities intrinsic to the Planet Earth. Mr Farnam is happy to be your counselor and advisor. Visit: www.defense-training.com

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    Charles R. WannallJames FlemingHerb SpauldingMikeJosh dixon Recent comment authors
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    James Fleming
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    James Fleming

    As of 11 29 2018 is the first I’ve heard of the problem with the Taurus PT 24 /7 pro DS I understand the lawsuit is over and the dates are past, my question is can this firearm be fixed by a competent gunsmith. I do not believe putting a date on this settlement is that all fair as I am sure I’m not the only one who’s never heard of this. Why the government is letting them get away with it is beyond me. But I do not like the idea of owning a gun that may fire on… Read more »

    Charles R. Wannall
    Guest
    Charles R. Wannall

    I have never heard or read of any fix that can be applied. That, of course, makes no sense, because it is a mechanical device, and, as such, should be amenable to some addition, subtraction or modification of parts that would address the problem. If you ever find anyone who can fix it, please let us know. I liked that pistol enough that I might actually buy another one and get the fix done, if I believed that it was solid and reliable. I see them from time to time in a gunstore, such as Collector’s Firearms here in Houston,… Read more »

    Mike
    Guest
    Mike

    Well it is August 2017 and Taurus customer service is as bad as ever. I filed the web form for the recall. No email back. Out of date information. If you call the toll free number there is an update that they have until September 2017 to appeal the latest ruling. I am sure Taurus does not want to do recall, but they could have given it a positive spin. But not Taurus. I am not sure why customer service could not be better trained than just telling customers to go to some website. I have no intention of purchasing… Read more »

    Josh dixon
    Guest
    Josh dixon

    For what it’s worth,I joined the Taurus forums site, and from what I’ve gathered there the “return or replace” process is haywire at best.Some folks had their defective guns replaced with gen 2 “pro” models in a reasonable time frame,while others are still waiting some for over a year. Others were eventually offered different gen 2 models than what they sent in,even different calibers all together. The general consensus is Taurus is not in any hurry to stand by their customers.I think that’s a real shame. They make a lot of quality, dependable ,affordable guns- the tracker,the judge,raging bull,the beretta… Read more »

    Travis
    Guest
    Travis

    I just bought a Taurus Millennium PT140. It has a trigger safety on it. was this the repair? what exactly is the fix? and how do i know if my specific gun has been repaired?

    alan
    Guest
    alan

    Pull the trigger in part way, put safety on , let go of trigger. Now pull trigger all the way with safety on . Does it fire?

    Ted Starkey
    Guest
    Ted Starkey

    PT 145 has defective, defeatable safety, and intolerable failure to feed problems. Great single shot pistol because that’s all I’ve ever been able to get from mine

    Josh
    Guest
    Josh

    Are there some recommended web sites, forums or videos for more information on this issue? I’m trying to make a decision on whether to send in my gen 1 pt 24/7 oss and my gen 1 pt111 or just keep them.My call to Taurus simply referred me politely to the lawsuit web page. I love how both guns shoot, I actually prefer the 24/7 to my beretta px4,but I live in country where stumbling or falling on rocky ground is a very real everyday possibility.

    Aaron Ping
    Guest
    Aaron Ping

    They told me I can’t even send my pt145 back for repair or replacement till the lawsuit is completed. As of now there is at least one appeal according to the lawyer handling it.

    Kent
    Guest
    Kent

    I sent my 24/7 Pro DS in over a year ago and they still have it!

    Charles R. Wannall
    Guest
    Charles R. Wannall

    I am one year into a “60 day backlog” after returning my Taurus PT 24/7 OSS/DS in .45. I never had an ounce of trouble with that pistol. I returned two at the same time. One was replaced almost as soon as they got it. I don’t even remember the delay any more, so it was trivial. The second one is still there, and there is no estimate of an ETA for replacement. In fact, across several calls/chats now during June, July and August of 2016, I get conflicting feedback. It is either on hold for replacement as soon as… Read more »

    Charles R Wannall
    Guest
    Charles R Wannall

    They finally started offering other models as replacements, but even then it was a little bit haywire. They offered something in .40 cal and I accepted, only to find out a month later that it was on indefinite backorder. Arrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh again. So, we went then through a short list of other options, and I wound up settling for the PT809, the 9 mm full size, only because I already have some 9 mm and it was in stock and ready to ship. So, late in 2016 (I think it was October) I finally got the replacement I had been waiting… Read more »

    al
    Guest
    al

    Where did you get that information about “offering other models as replacements”?
    “backorder” is BS. They have models in stores that could be substituted.
    If they don’t have the items , they need to be giving out vouchers to apply towards a store purchase!

    Charles Wannall
    Guest
    Charles Wannall

    14 chat sessions and probably half a dozen call to customer service from 8/7 2015 through 11/2/2016. Part of the problem was that I would get a different answer about every time. There were about 3 or 4 answers that we kept cycling through.

    It did finally sometime in November when I finally accepted the PT809.

    I fully agree what they should be doing about vouchers. Answer: that option is not available.

    Herb Spaulding
    Guest
    Herb Spaulding

    I have had a 809 for several years now and I haven’t had a problem with it. Love it. I can’t say the same for the 709. Consistent failure to eject issues. It took 8 months to get a replacement for it. I immediately traded it for a Ruger LCS9 Pro.

    sea bai
    Guest
    sea bai

    Why me? I sent my gun to Taurus 1 year ago and I’m still waiting for them to return it. It’s a 24/7 40 cal. The gun went off while the safety was on, and I have video of it. I / Someone could have gotten hurt . I have called many times over the year to find out that they will not return it, they will not be fixing it any time soon, they will not be replacing it and everyone gives me different stories about what going on with it. I have had a few rude people call… Read more »

    Taylor Stowell
    Guest
    Taylor Stowell

    I own a Taurus Millenium Pro, PT 745 C, 1n .45 Cal. Can you advise if there is a recall or a “buy-back”, for this weapon?
    serial No,: NYC 71880
    This weapon has been minimally fired, with no problems.

    Josh
    Guest
    Josh

    I own 2 of the pistols on the list.both function perfectly at the range,where I am extremely safety conscious.both are very accurate and function 100%.that said,now that I’ve heard of this issue and seen the videos I don’t feel right carrying either one loaded which kind of defeats the purpose of a ccw.Does anyone here have actual experience with the repair process mentioned in the article and lawsuit?quality of repair,type of repair,turn around time,etc?as someone else posted here,I could never sell these to anybody as is,and a 200$ refund on a gun I paid much more for is a joke.any… Read more »

    Homer Adkins
    Guest
    Homer Adkins

    I have a 24/7 pro ds when I called taurus about the recall they told me my gun would just lay there till the settlement was done????? purchased gun in 2011

    Don Brush
    Guest
    Don Brush

    I have had a PT 158 since the 1990s. I can’t believe that the design is any different on my gun then those listed. It is however not on the list. I don’t really feel comfortable with it now but I can’t, in good conscience, sell a gun to someone else, I just would not do that. I wish I could send this back to them in exchange for a comparable weapon. Now I can’t sell it, give it away, or anything!

    Aaron
    Guest
    Aaron

    I am trying to figure out how to return the PT145 I have had for 14 years. I don’t recall dropping it specifically, but my family’s safety is not worth having to worry about it. I will return it for repair or replacement. I just bought a Sig 320, so whatever they do with it I will likely make it my truck gun for times when I don’t have my Sig with me.

    Floyd mccarty
    Guest
    Floyd mccarty

    Better safe! I love my Taurus firearms and have sold many. Not sure. I dropped mine so hard that the rear sight broke.
    It sure didn’t discharge. I don’t like the idea of being offered a 200 dollar buy back. I would rather repair or replacement with the 1911! I wouldn’t complain.

    Gary
    Guest
    Gary

    Where can I send my pt111 to be repaired?

    joe simeone
    Guest
    joe simeone

    I own the same OSS 9mm and have dropped it by accident and on purpose and could get my Taurus to malfunction.
    I think you’re out to get a free payday. I hope you now keep your finger out of trigger guard while holstering and handling your pistols. I think Taurus is handling it unfairly by restricting parts on the OSS.

    Jason
    Guest
    Jason

    Purchased my Taurus 24/7 PRO DS 9mm in August 2008. Never had any problems. Put approximately 4,000 rds through it; no jams, no issues. Never had it modified in anyway, never dismantled it beyond manufacturer recommendations. February 2014, gun fell out of my holster, landed muzzle-up between my legs and under my chin. First rule of a falling gun? DON’T grab for it. I cringed as it was air bourne…. When it hit the ground, it discharged a round passing through my right tibia, essentially exploding it… Law suit against Taurus is still pending… AND guess what? I’m not the… Read more »

    Bruce Nash
    Guest
    Bruce Nash

    I have a Taurus 669 and PT 140 Millenium. I love them both and have had no problems with them. My 669 has probably run close to 8000 rounds though it. It’s only problem is it’s dislike of magnum primers on reloads. Might just be the brand. My PT 140 ran 150 rounds right out of the box like a sewing machine. I have had no problems with it. I will contact Taurus about having it inspected and repaired. Not really looking to change handguns.

    Jay Eimer
    Guest
    Jay Eimer

    There’s a second bit to the settlement. I have a PT-140 that exhibited the 2nd problem found. If you pull the trigger slightly (less than the normal ‘take up the slack’ and then apply the thumb safety, the safety goes on (or appears to) and the trigger returns to its ‘at rest’ position when released. However, in this condition, the safety is really NOT on – the weapon will fire if the trigger is pulled, without touching the safety and with the safety still in the up (on safe) position. For me, that’s a whole lot more important than being… Read more »

    alan
    Guest
    alan

    As of November 22, 2016 Their customer support and the Taurus website says they are not accepting fixes under the new enhanced warranty yet because the case is in appeals. Did you get it back yet?

    Peter
    Guest
    Peter

    In case you forgot to look at your calendar today, it is 2015 – not 2003 when the first lawsuit against Taurus was filed. The biggest hole in your story is neglecting to mention that Taurus has since replaced all of its drop safeties with their G2 models that uses a different drop safety mechanism i8 addition to changing to a split trigger system found in Rugers and like the Glock blade safety, it requires the shooter to apply full pressure across the trigger all tghe way back to the break. Most of all, they have gotten a new CEO… Read more »

    Dale Stam
    Guest
    Dale Stam

    Taurus has had my two Mill 45 for 10 month and no replacements as of yet. Sent in Sept 2015 and now June 2016
    just talk with Taurus and they have not clue when there going to ship the G2 45

    sea bai
    Guest
    sea bai

    Why me? I sent my gun to Taurus 1 year ago and I’m still waiting for them to return it. It’s a 24/7 40 cal. The gun went off while the safety was on, and I have video of it. I / Someone could have gotten hurt . I have called many times over the year to find out that they will not return it, they will not be fixing it any time soon, they will not be replacing it and everyone gives me different stories about what going on with it. I have had a few rude people call… Read more »

    robert payne
    Guest
    robert payne

    ur headline says settlement and recall but u don’t go into details on either one // I own quite a few and don’t know wat the scoop is on any of them // do I send all my Taurus back or file for a cash claim ?

    Michael Ring
    Guest
    Michael Ring

    I got a Taurus made Rossi 92. The rifle was so poorly made I trashed it rather than run risk it being out in the world. I’ll pass on Taurus.