By Dean Weingarten
Arizona – -(Ammoland.com)- A pistol carrier in Connecticut was asked by a police officer to produce a permit. He asked the officer what the reason was for the officer asking for the permit. The officer replied with an expetive. From fox61.com:
Brown told FOX 61 what happened next: “Well, you have a gun. So then he said, ‘do you have a permit?’ And I’m like why? He said ‘because I (expletive) said so.'”
But, according to the newly written law, police may only request a permit if there is reasonable suspicion of a crime.
The officer did not arrest or detain Brown.
I did some research into Connecticut law, and I did not find any recent change in the statutes about requirements to show a permit on demand. The law only says you have to carry the permit with you. If there was a change in the statute, I did not see it. There have been some recent court cases. Some lower courts have ruled that simply possessing a firearm is not reasonable suspicion of a crime, so a person may not be detained on that basis. From ctcarry.com:
The mere fact that you are carrying a firearm unconcealed does not meet the Reasonable Articulable Suspicion (RAS) necessary to detain an individual. Therefore, there is no statutory requirement for a person to provide a pistol permit when they are not otherwise suspected of a crime. Citizens exercising this right should be aware that they are likely to face harrassment, threats and even unlawful arrest by police officers if they refuse to show their permit on demand by police officers. This has occurred previously, and it was ruled that the officer lacked RAS to stop the defendant.
A state police memo from 2013 buttresses that interpretation. From ctcarry.com(pdf) DPS memo:
State Police personnel should not request individuals to produce their pistol permits unless such individual has become the subject of a law enforcement investigative inquiry for another reason.
Second Amendment supporter Dontrell Brown seemed quite aware of the legal implications. In a discussion about another incident, he was openly carrying at the police department, where he had gone to pay a ticket, last year. From the article:
“I asked him ‘am I being detained?’ He said ‘no.’ I said ‘OK will you have a good day.'”
For the record, Brown showed FOX 61 his pistol permit, which he says he always has with him. Brown wanted to make it clear it was not his intention to test the limits of the law. He says he is simply exercising his Second Amendment right.
Brown is in the process of filing a complaint about the incident at the police department.
Brown recorded both incidents, so there is no “he said, she said” controversy. It is clear that First and Second Amendment rights are being used in concert to protect each other, and in this case, Fourth Amendment rights as well.
A police officer does not have the authority to stop a driver to see if they have a driver’s license. There has to be some other reason for the stop. The same logic applies here. While the right to travel is clearly a right protected by the Constitution, it is not mentioned there. The right to keep and bear arms is explicitly protected by both the Second Amendment, and the Constitution of the State of Connecticut.
It does not appear that Connecticut’s Supreme Court has ruled on whether police have the authority to ask for a carry permit without any reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed.
c2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included. Link to Gun Watch
About Dean Weingarten;
Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of constitutional carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and recently retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.
wow thanks for the support
Ignore JohnC please..He trolls all these sites baiting folks to respond to his posts..He is a liberal TROLL who makes money by the number of responses he gets..Respect those in L.E. that show respect..We the people hold the authority, for what they do..Not the other way around..They work for the citizens, under the power that we allow for them to perform their duties in a respectful manner..I am retired LE and most of my brothers in Blue would give their life to protect any one of US..
I carry a red, white and blue business card with “PERMIT” in large stylized letters and “To refuse illegal interrogation, search or seizure under color of authority” printed in regular–sized letters, followed by “Authorized by the U.S. Constitution … and ignored only by those who selfishly despise my freedom to legally defend myself with equal force.
There is no distinction between those who would otherwise attempt to deprive me of my rights and anyone who would threaten the safety and lives of my family – or my country”.
The most litigated Amendment in the Constitution that has the Boldest language that even my 7 year old Grand Daughter can understand “the right of the people to keep and bear arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”! The Lawyers have a way of twisting language that in itself should be against the law, have managed to screw up a NATURAL right that our Founders wanted to Insure would never be screwed up. Amazing what Educated Derelicts can screw up. This election might be the salvation of the Constitution if the voters get their heads out of their posteriors because THE MAJORITY… Read more »
Tonic- this state CT. is my home state and its not without its problems. Open carry is a touchy subject at best. The statute does state that if the weapon is causing a problem (not exact words) then you can be detained (again not exact wording) so if the officer wanted to, he could’ve pushed it. I did see the story the cop was an ass and the civilian was antagonistic. John C. you should voluntarily turn in any permits you hold, all weapons, and all ammunition. You clearly are a problem and not a solution at all. You had… Read more »
If I am at a stop light and operating my vehicle, I don’t have to show my license if an officer
asks for it, unless it is for a valid traffic stop.
The few officers who are demanding permits need to be identified and trained in the law.
Just like in California when you could open carry (unloaded chamber and empty magazine),
the officers would stop you and check your firearm and also run the serial number.
CA has since banned open carry.
Not really sure why you need to carry paper anything anymore. Veh. registration, CCW, ect. They all have computers in the cars now and they know what you have when they pull you over.
rw and 2a. I am not blanketing Black people. am speaking of the rebellious mostly young ones who are openly defiant and even taunting of the police. With that clarification I stand by my statement, And 2a I am neither secure or a pussy, and apparently you think about dicks too much
John C, please go here and feel free to comment on something that is actually true and tell us how you feel bout your comments then. Why can’t adults have a meaningful conversation about our rights as Americans without people like you Race baiting. thttps://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_day_20_what_yo.html
What about the police respecting my Authority and my Patience and my Right(s) above all else?
“Police have a very difficult job at best.” Well there is part of this statement that is true, it’s a job. Cops are paid to perform a job within the limits of the Constitution. When they attempt to violate the rights of citizens who pay them, it is our job to tell them that they are wrong. This carrier is a hero, and the fawning cop bootlicking attitudes we see here that enable and excuse police criminals are the real problem. Why don’t we hear firemen and garbagemen constantly whining about how tough their jobs are? Firemen who don’t show… Read more »
JohnC people like you are the very reason we run a very good chance of losing our 2A rights. Insecure pussies like you should learn to keep your mouths closed when the adults are having a meaningful conversation. Black this, black that.. only lets us other whites know how small your dick is, and how bad you want to be black. If you haven’t figured it out those “blacks” have been there fighting since the revolution when a majority of you big mouth whites refused to. And no meaningful change will occur as long as vaginas like you are the… Read more »
Do not judge all police by the actions of one.
The police have to follow the same laws as we do, including not being allowed to draw their weapons without justification.
Interestingly enough, the new open carry law in TX DOES specify that an LEO can ask to see a person’s TPL if he is openly carrying, and without any other suspicion. The state legislature was unable to pass the law without that amendment in it. However, all my state and local LEO friends have advised me that they are being told NOT to stop anyone and ask to see their license unless there is another reason for the stop, one that would create a RAS. Further, 911 operators have been trained to ask for further clarifying data if they get… Read more »
‘JohnC – We, as an armed population need to be better than the rebellious blacks who so often create dangerous situations because of unnecessary resistance.’
Really??, comments like this is really the problem.
Look twice in the mirror before calling all law enforcement officers pricks. Yes there are some bad ones, just like bad people that use the 2nd amendment right to push the boundaries. People have screwed it up before and more regulations get put place to make it harder. For someone walking into a police department with a gun on is asking to be stopped and questioned. I know it said he did not have to show his permit but how hard would it have been to show it. There are people out there that do nothing but try to make… Read more »
My home state of Connecticut needs to start living up to that motto, The Constitution State and stop the b.s., .
Police have a very difficult job at best. Testing their authority or patience is a display of your lack of respect. Being a weapon carrier entails it’s own set of obligations. One is to be aware of your own personal safety. Another is to not endanger others. Whether lawful or not, disobeying a request for a carry permit is putting the officer on alert and creating a potential for a hazardous situation. We, as an armed population need to be better than the rebellious blacks who so often create dangerous situations because of unnecessary resistance.
You obviously live a liberal untopia Disney world area. Never had a problem in North Carolina, we have some good officers here that aren’t out to get you for any little petty thing thankfully.
Law enforcement personal are arrogant pricks… Exercise your rights and learn the law if you carry your gun. Only then stand your ground and stop these pricks from trying to intimidate you!!!