Police Shoot Good Guy in Armed Robbery Fight

Bob Irwin highlights the latest self defense and other shootings of the week. Read them and see what went wrong, what went right and what we can learn from self defense with a gun.

Car Bullet Holes
Police Shoot Good Guy in Armed Robbery Fight
Bob Irwin
Bob Irwin

USA –-(Ammoland.com)- WSB-TV 2 in Atlanta, Georgia reports 9- 28-2016, a 41 year old father had just arrived home from work when a suspect with a gun robbed him and another man of roughly $1,000 in cash. The incident happened at an apartment complex on the 1000 block of Collier Road early Saturday morning.

The father of four decided to take matters into his own hands.

“My dad chased after him with his gun. Went around the building,” his son said. He added the thief fired two shots at his dad, one ending up in a nearby car.”

Then as the father rounded the building, he came face-to-face with the off-duty Atlanta police officer. The Officer had heard the gunshots and seeing the father running with a gun, the officer opened fire. His shots hit the father multiple times.

Atlanta PD placed the officer on administrative leave while the Georgia Bureau of Investigation looks into the incident.

The son said “I think he should have at least yelled freeze or something. My dad knows English. If he would have said something, stop, freeze or something, he would have stopped.”

The GBI is working with the involved officer's attorney to set up an interview about the incident.

The father, who is the family’s sole breadwinner, is in critical condition, but is expected to recover.

Comments:

There are extreme risks involved in chasing suspects. One of those is of course friendly fire. The father is trying to recover the money his family needs and makes a spur of the moment decision to pursue.

GBI will go through their investigative process. We only have the family’s interviews in this report so far. Perhaps the officer did warn the father, perhaps in the frantic dynamic the father did not hear it. The facts and timing will come out through the investigation and probably the courts.

Our point here is to avoid chasing suspects if possible, the risks are way too high unless another human is in immediate danger.

The family has created a GoFundMe account for Pedro Maldonado to help with medical and living expenses.

Bob Irwin, The Gun Store, Las Vegas

About Bob Irwin

The writer is the owner of The Gun Store in Las Vegas and has a gun talk radio show “Fired Up with Bob Irwin” Firedup is now on KSHP 1400 am radio from 5 to 6 pm on Thursdays and at the same time also on YouTube “Fired Up with Bob Irwin.

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Rokflyer
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Rokflyer

Bob. I always enjoy your articles. They teach us a lot and make us consider the hidden unseen circumstances that come with gun ownership, and carrying same. If you go back to several court decisions, starting way back in 1859. The police are under no obligation to protect us, persay. Their priorities are limited to enforcement of law. So our protection.rest with us, according to the definition of the law. The officer had no obligation to fire his weapon, if it was not pointed, At his person. Which is basically the same right we all have under the law as… Read more »

Macofjack
Guest
Macofjack

Max T – Off duty means concealed carry. Friction of a second, I don’t think so.
Face to face, is that close enough the LEO could have knocked the gun out of the hand of the father?
Most people (untrained) to not carry a gun up in a firing position. Was he or was the gun at his side?
Way to many unknowns, but on the face of it the LEO did NOT follow procedure.

Max T
Guest
Max T

Macofjack, If you’ve never received the training for fast concealed draw, a simple YouTube search should pull up numerous videos for a rapid close range ‘draw and fire on target’ from a concealed carry holster in under a second. Also, as mentioned, even against an assailant armed with a knife, LEO training (and tactical training classes that are open to private citizens) teach that even when you’re armed with a firearm, an assailant within 21 feet is potentially deadly. If the assailant has a firearm, that lethal range is significantly extended. Only a fool who WANTS to be shot (or… Read more »

Macofjack
Guest
Macofjack

Max T, so are you saying that he had time to draw, but not to say STOP, POLICE. Guess he can’t multitask. With all the bad shooting going down this one will only add fuel to the fire. We’ll just have to wait and see if any other facts come out. I hope it was NOT a bad shooting, but there are way to many liberals that will say it was no matter what. If he had ID himself it all could have been avoided and we would not be having this conversation.

Eric_CA
Guest
Eric_CA

In my opinion, one looses credibility when one states “Face to face, is that close enough the LEO could have knocked the gun out of the hand of the father?” Regardless, that it was a question.

Tueller Drill, read up on it.

big boy
Guest
big boy

An off-duty police officer should be required to ALWAYS identify himself.
Imagine the result if the father, reasonably in fear for his life, had been a quicker shot?

Eric_CA
Guest
Eric_CA

I think most can agree that the father should not have pursued the robber. Thank goodness he will survive. If I’m not mistaken Georgia’s castle doctrine protects a person from an intruder and if one about to be harmed.

I don’t want to second guess the off duty LEO without know all the facts, but it appears he put himself in a bad situation. Furthermore, one can’t assume that every guy with a gun is a bad guy.

Colonialgirl
Guest
Colonialgirl

NO STUPID; I totally DISAGREE given the extremely low possibility that the police would EVER fid the crook and recover the stolen money.
What do you think, the citizen should have gotten down on the ground and kissed his own rear after getting robbed?
HELL NO!! I’m gonna chase the CROOK and make a CITIZENS ARREST.

Macofjack
Guest
Macofjack

Last time I checked police, on or off duty, have to id themselves. From what we have he DID NOT! Agreed we need a lot more info to make any clear decisions.

Macofjack
Guest
Macofjack

Of course that’s not true in a liberal anti-gun world like Ceefore’s. Just sayin’.

Alan Rose
Guest
Alan Rose

If the off duty cop was not in uniform, he should have never gone looking for trouble. Heck just being off duty, most agencies tell their officers to leave it for the on duty cops to handle.

DH789
Guest
DH789

There should be no charges against either the father or the police officer. I’m pretty sure that there is no law on the books that say you are not allowed to go after someone who just robbed you. In the above story, the only shots fired were the two shots fired by the robber and the shots fired by the police officer. If the father had fired no shots then he has commited no crime against the robber. As usual, there is not enough information to pick this apart and say that the officer did anything wrong but there a… Read more »

Michael
Guest
Michael

Fortunately for the rest of the bystanders this didn’t happen in New York City. Otherwise many of those individuals would have been “sprayed” by the excess rounds fired by the police officer.

Dan
Guest
Dan

Bad shoot pure and simple. Shoot first and ask questions later just shows how poor their training is. If you don’t know what’s going on find out BEFORE YOU SHOOT. If the offduty is exonerated the precedent is set for any citizen to shoot the off duty just because he produces a weapon and becomes a SUPPOSED threat also. You can’t have it both ways. BAD SHOOT!

oldshooter
Guest
oldshooter

OK, so if YOU were running to the corner of a building, after hearing shots fired, and a lone man with a gun in his hand runs around the corner towards you, what would YOU do? How long would you wait and how would you determine what was going on, exactly? Remember you suddenly confront each other at a range of maybe 10-15 feet, well within the “Tueller Drill” framework, you are running towards each other with a closing speed of probably 15 mph or more. You are both surprised, so you are inside each other’s OODA loops, creating a… Read more »

Hunter
Guest
Hunter

This sucks to hear. I agree with several of the previous posts. I live in Wyoming which is a castle doctrine state, granting citizens the right to use lethal force to defend themselves and innocent people in any owned property (house, vehicle, etc) but like someone mentioned, once the robber retreated, than a jury is more than likely going to charge the father for pursuing him, as the situation obviously de-escalated and there was no longer an immediate threat to his life or the lives of innocent people around him. He’s going to have a big ol can of legal… Read more »

Cam
Guest
Cam

Should face the same scutinay as am normal citizen. Face a grand jury and most likely a trial for at least manslaughter, the same as I would if I shot an innocent man with a gun. The family should also sue him civilly. I’m pretty sure that a jury would feel the same as me that was not a good shoot. The guy could have been a undercover cop or an innocent man. If you can’t or don’t know the situation either sit back and observe till you can make a determination or face the consequences of your shot. It’s… Read more »

oldshooter
Guest
oldshooter

A cop, unlike a “normal citizen,” does not have the option to “sit back and observe” until he can make a determination. He is OBLIGATED to intervene, which he did, and then he was forced by circumstances, to make an instant determination on the basis of what he saw and heard at the time. Frankly, I doubt a jury would agree with you, especially if a demonstration of the situation was allowed in the courtroom. If a cop is responding to the sound of gunfire and a man openly carrying a gun suddenly runs around the building in front of… Read more »

Tionico
Guest
Tionico

off duty or on, the copper has a higher standard of responsibiltiy to ASSESS the situation and make an INFORMED decision. You seem to exempt the cop by claiming there is NO TIME to figure out what is acutally going on. WRONG!!!! If you can’t iddentify who is who in a situation, you have NO RIGHT to fire. Being on thepayroll of the cloal LE outfit changes nothing. If anything, the cops have a higher standard due to their training. And in many states, persuit of a felon in flight is lawful. Don’t know what Georgia’s laws say about that.… Read more »

oldshooter
Guest
oldshooter

You’re right that I’m letting the cop off the hook because there was probably NOT enough time to gather all the relevant facts before he HAD to do SOMETHING. By your statements, I assume that you would, by “holding (the cop) to a higher standard,” assert that it is an officer’s duty to take fire and possibly die anytime he is not absolutely certain that he has enough data to know he is doing the “right thing.” This doesn’t seem to be the way the courts typically see it, but maybe you’re right.

Max T
Guest
Max T

“Face to face” as the article states is not the same as “they faced each other at 100 yards”. The officer heard shots fired and the victim, while running after the robber came around the corner and came ‘face to face’ with the off duty officer. At close proximity, an armed suspect with a deadly weapon can inflict serious or lethal injury in a fraction of a second. LEO and even most tactical pistol classes will teach that even while armed with your sidearm, a suspect armed with a knife is potentially lethal if they’re closer than 21 feet. A… Read more »

Macofjack
Guest
Macofjack

Max T – Problem with the hole no time theory is, e had time to draw his weapon, aim it, and shoot. Sounds like enough time to identify, but we don’t have the full story one way or the other.

Max T
Guest
Max T

Mafcojack, You’re assuming that it takes a significant amount of time to draw and fire a pistol, but an individual (private citizen or LEO) with training can draw and fire on target in a fraction of a second (especially at the close ranges that would typically be described as ‘face to face’). Once again, all this is based on the premises of imminent danger and immediate threat as well as time to react. Having someone run around the corner with a gun in their hand winding up at close range, right after you heard gunshots leaves you very little time… Read more »

Sam
Guest
Sam

Hey Max,
If I, as a concealed carry person ever see a group of men zipping up their pants after beating and raping one of your loved ones, I will be sure to call a cop as there is no longer a felony in progress.

I wish there was a way we could identify people like you. Maybe “wuss” stamped on their forehead.

poderac
Guest
poderac

Oldshooter, you are shooting your mouth off with a bunch of idiot statements. All cops are taught to identify their target before firing.
It is not illegal to chase the robber. It would be against the law to shoot him, but to chase him and hold at gunpoint is perfectly legal. Try to know what is, before spouting your mouth off.

oldshooter
Guest
oldshooter

Poderac: You said – 1) “All cops are taught to identify their target before firing.” Cops are rarely able to actually IDENTIFY (in the usual police sense) potential targets in an active shooting scenario, which would typically require stopping them and getting some kind of ID. Instead, they are expected to make the best, most “reasonable,” decision possible under the circumstances, with the info available to them at the time, about whether or not shooting is justifiable. If you meant “identify” in the sense of seeing the target and deciding the person was a valid target, then this cop obviously… Read more »

The Very Deplorable VonZorch
Guest
The Very Deplorable VonZorch

He is OBLIGATED to intervene

Numerous court decisions including SCOTUS say otherwise.

Joe
Guest
Joe

The article doesn’t state if the off duty cop was in uniform. If he was in plain clothes, then based on your statements, the father seeing someone with a gun pointed in his direction, would have been acting in the same reasonable manner shooting the officer if in the same split second he felt his life was in immediate danger. It’s this kind of bad shooting by a police officer and people like you that attempt to justify it, is why we have more instances where police are shooting first and then asking questions later. In this day and age… Read more »

Pistol Pete
Guest
Pistol Pete

It was a mistake to chase the robber after he left the man’s home and if he had kill the robber he would be charged with murder. When the robber ran he no longer was a threat. Kill the robber while your life in in danger before he runs then the law is on your side in most state. But in the heat of the moment we don’t know what we might do.

Gryyphyn
Guest
Gryyphyn

I would have likely reacted the same way. We all probably would if some cam running around the corner with a gun after hearing shots fired.

Hopefully the father is OK and this is ruled as an unfortunate but clean shooting. We’re likely to hear loads of liberal anti-cop rhetoric no matter what.

Mike McAllister
Guest
Mike McAllister

This is one of those cases where the officer did not follow his training and messed up. He is responsible and should be held to that responsibility.

oldshooter
Guest
oldshooter

Somehow, I doubt that his training would have taught him NOT to shoot when suddenly encountering a man with a gun running towards him, especially in an ongoing gunfight scenario. This confrontation apparently happened very suddenly, without warning, therefore requiring an instant decision, and in a situation in which the police had heard shots being fired, implying an imminent, and potentially deadly, threat scenario was present. It is regrettable, but unless there is a lot more unreported information to suggest otherwise, I am not inclined to fault the officer involved.

Tionico
Guest
Tionico

still, anyone MUST identify the target before squeezing the round. This cop did NOT. Fast breaking situation? Wait till you know enough to make an INFORMED decision. Was the running Dad aiming his gun at the off duty cop? No? Then HE was not a lethal threat to the off duty cop. ANytime there is gunfire from multiple locations, there are likely Good Guys and Rat Guys… if you’re careless/hasty enough to fire at the first Guy with Gun, you run a fifty fifty chance of getting the Good GUy.. as happened here. IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET. His training either should… Read more »

The Dude
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The Dude

First rule of a gun fight. Find cover!!

Macofjack
Guest
Macofjack

Three rules of gun control – Shot placement, shot placement and shot placement!

Chris Mallory
Guest
Chris Mallory

Once again we have a cop firing his weapon without actually identifying a threat. It is well past time to start disarming cops. Citizens should be armed, not government employees.

Mike McAllister
Guest
Mike McAllister

Your twice the IDIOT Gil is!!

joe chamberlain
Guest
joe chamberlain

i agree

Michael
Guest
Michael

Again, it’s “You’re” (not “your”). “Your” posts would make more sense and be taken more seriously if “you’re” using the English language correctly.

oldshooter
Guest
oldshooter

You’re absolutely correct – but you know what the person who proofread and edited Hitler’s speeches was, don’t you? A “Grammar NAZI.”

Macofjack
Guest
Macofjack

You must have gotten the idea, but you spelling nazi got the better of you. Sucks to be you!

wake_up_america
Guest
wake_up_america

Really – who made you “Teacher” for the clown class?? Step off bozo boy.

Pete
Guest
Pete

Shouldn’t that be ‘you’re’ ? Plain and simple!

Colonialgirl
Guest
Colonialgirl

Mikey the idiot spews more idiocy.

KWK
Guest
KWK

One thing to consider here – In the 1970s there was a rash of deaths due to crashes with Emergency vehicles the mentality was “they are in response – you should get out of the way” and “We have to allow them to do their job for the good of the community” But the solution turned out to be to pass laws that made the Professional driver accountable for their higher level of training. Today in most states the driver of an emergency vehicle is held to a higher standard for responsibility in accidents. They get better training and they… Read more »

Mike McAllister
Guest
Mike McAllister

Another spelling idiot!!! Go back to class and learn something that will help you in REAL life!

Ted
Guest
Ted

To Mike McAllister: Your annoying the adults on this site. Your sounding like Judy on Leave It To Beaver. Wouldn’t you really be happier on a site for amateur grammarians?

Pete
Guest
Pete

If you want to be taken seriously use the correct spelling (or, in this case, the correct word). Your credibility suffers when you can’t even get the basics correct. Yes, there are grammarians who still care about the English language. Are we losing that, too?

Macofjack
Guest
Macofjack

To Ted, crawl back in you safe hole and suck on that thumb a little longer. Then come back and play with the big boys!!!

Wild Bill
Guest
Wild Bill

@Ted Really? Judy on Leave it to Beaver. With so many important, complicated, and detailed concepts to discuss, we all need to use English properly and accurately, so that real communication is achieved. So much wasted typing. Now, let’s all go eat grandma. Or is it Let’s all go eat, Grandma!

Ted
Guest
Ted

Your right, it is wasted typing.

poderac
Guest
poderac

I think most, if not all, cops are citizens. That gives him the right to carry, no matter who he works for.
As for the article, the cop should have been a little more patient unless Pedro was firing his weapon.

Just running with one in his hand is not reason enough to shoot him.

kwk
Guest
kwk

One thing of note here – In many states, as a citizen, you do not have the right to use deadly force to defend property (rent money is property). I don’t know all the details here but – at first glance once the attacker broke off and fled it would seem that the “deadly threat” was mitigated thus a deadly response was not warranted. Also one could argue that the victim now using his own deadly weapon was the attacker and the robber was now justified in responding with a deadly force to defend self. While I am a strong… Read more »

SuperG
Guest
SuperG

Exactly what I was thinking. Once the robber was gone, so was the threat. It is sad that we have to let the thieves get away with their crimes, but we have to obey the laws, or we are no better. It sure is frustrating at times though, and I can understand emotional aspect of allowing that to happen. Maybe next time, Dad will have his permit and we’ll have a dead a repeat felon.

Infidel7.62
Guest
Infidel7.62

If he is still armed he is still a threat.

Raconteur
Guest
Raconteur

The robber was no longer a “real and PRESENT” danger. The dad was wrong to pursue, with deadly intent. He put himself and the public at large, in danger.

Dan
Guest
Dan

You have a right to make a citizens arrest and if the criminal has presented the threat of deadly force you can defend yourself. Your statement of pursuing with “deadly intent” is just your unsupported assumption. Because even during the chase, the story reports the criminal fired twice and yet never states the father ever fired his weapon. It would appear he was more interested in getting his money back than killing the guy.

Sam
Guest
Sam

He had a right to pursue but he should have holstered his weapon and simply followed/pursued to see where the turd went.
That way the cop wouldn’t have Freaked out and shot him (hopefully)
Never run with a weapon in hand, thats a good way to have an accident.

I know this is after the fact and armchair calling it.
My 2 cents.

I hope the man recovers and my thoughts go with his family as well as I hope the perp gets his just rewards.

Jeff Mathis
Guest
Jeff Mathis

Just glad the “Father” will live to carry another day!

Tionico
Guest
Tionico

and some states allow citizen use of lethal force to stop, or apprehend after the fact, criminals in the process of or having just committed a felony. And theft of a Grand IS felony nearly anywhere. True, we don’t have enough details now, but from here it smells like the off duty copper was just a bit hasty in his conclusions. Being off duty gives him no special priviledges as he is not identifiable as LE. In other words, he was on equal fotting wiht the Dad chasing after the armed robber (whom I’ll wager was also a felon in… Read more »

Douglas Kuykendall
Guest
Douglas Kuykendall

Seems like the money was the father’s. It was his money, not the ahole that rob him. He should have the right to shoot his ass. Maybe the cop should have followed an not shot him. He might have saw what was going up n. The cop was not threatened. As far as the threat leaving ,he was leaving with the man’s money. That is a threat to his livelihood

Aardvark
Guest
Aardvark

You are correct on most of your points. However, an armed robber has just committed a felony with a deadly weapon and does NOT have any legal justification to shoot at the pursuing victim. In fact his only legal response would be to drop his weapon and surrender to the victim or LEO.

Idadho
Guest
Idadho

The cop screwed up. The victim also screwed up but the cop is well trained to not screw up. A simple “Stop, POLICE”, should have been his first response. The victim was not aiming his gun at the cop and it does not say he even fired his gun. other reports say that shell casings recovered were to the suspects gun that was not recovered. Plus, the cop should have had his badge out and ready, at least hanging from his waistband. He drove up in his personal car so he had time to prepare. Off duty cops do carry… Read more »

Buffalolips
Guest
Buffalolips

Last time I checked, a civilian running with a gun is not automatic justification for a “peace officer” to respond with lethal force regardless of what he heard or thought he heard. To claim otherwise would be quite a stretch of tortured logic. We don’t have all the facts so hopefully the case will be objectively evaluated. I say ‘hopefully’ because in recent years that hasn’t always been the case. While I concur with the previous comments that the threat had been mitigated, and the armed robbery victim chasing the perp with his own gun was not stellar headwork, that… Read more »

Gil
Guest
Gil

Well shucks the police (or private individuals) shouldn’t face any charges or else everyone will too afraid to stop bad guys with a gun.

Mike McAllister
Guest
Mike McAllister

Your an IDIOT plain and simple!

Pete
Guest
Pete

Shouldn’t that be ‘you’re’ ? Plain and simple!

Mike
Guest
Mike

Cops always shoot the victim. It’s easier.

Mike McAllister
Guest
Mike McAllister

Mike – You are still alive so must not shoot the victim every time!

Gil
Guest
Gil

Then again it’s said private individuals should make sure the courts only hear one side of the story in the case of a shooting.

Ceefour
Guest
Ceefour

Wrong again..mickie

Colonialgirl
Guest
Colonialgirl

Looking in a mirror Mikey?

Mike
Guest
Mike

I’m not a cop. They shot victims a lot . DA

Gil
Guest
Gil

Police have been absolved in high-speed chases where they accidently crashed into innocent peoples’ cars.

James A Wyatt Son of the Gunsmith
Guest
James A Wyatt Son of the Gunsmith

. . . and Lord Knows we are inundated with such as these folks. Having literally grown up in Dad’s shop where he built custom hunting rifles as well as being a Remington Arms approved Gunsmith, spending all my free time casting bullets, loading ammunition and shooting handguns and rifles, I have been A Concealed Wearer of handguns for the past 62 of my soon to be 79 years and habitually having always gone armed in spite of working in 9 states all of which were then a total anti-gun environment, one becomes aware that not only is there extreme… Read more »

Bama Bill
Guest
Bama Bill

I won’t say which state, but a trooper said, “After you shoot, yell ‘Halt or I will shoot’, then fire a shot into the air. If the perp makes it outside, drag him back inside. You won’t be asked about the order of events, and you can honestly say “I told him halt or I will shoot”, “I fired a warning shot”, and “I shot him”. Best to shoot them inside, and keep shooting until they stop moving. And you get control of their gun. You miss, they “Play dead”, you put your gun down, they empty their gun into… Read more »

timothyf7
Guest
timothyf7

I don’t know if you are from Bama, but if you are… you REALLY need to read the Alabama gun laws. I could care less if a Trooper “WRONGLY” gave you terrible advice, but your description of what he told you is against the law in Alabama and could end with a murder charge if they investigate properly. You are not allowed to fire a warning shot! And unless your life is in immediate danger of death or extreme bodily harm, you cannot shot a person. In that case, no warning shot is needed or required – it is a… Read more »

Jerald Smith
Guest
Jerald Smith

The absolute most ignorant thing I’ve read in a while. No law enforcement officer is going to give you that sh*tty advice. There are prison cells waiting on you and that officer….

Sam
Guest
Sam

The Cop Freaked- No neither the Cop nor the good guy should face charges but both need some more training.
The Cop lost it to quick I believe 9 (happens under stress)
And the good guy with a gun Should not have been chasing with gun in hand.

I pray the man survives.
And the bad guy gets his just rewards (as in a body bag) next time.