USA – -(Ammoland.com)- I’m an attorney living in Seattle. A beautiful place with a bad drug problem.
I’ll admit I’m not a great shot, don’t hit the range as often as I’d like, don’t have a zillion guns, cases of ammo. But I’m concerned about my safety and my family’s safety.
And I’ll take a shortcut-the oversized driver in my bag, the big-head putter. I was in the hardware store a couple of weeks ago and this young girl is being asked to leave; things got a little hairy. The guys at the counter remarked “meth-heads; they’re everywhere.”
I went home and did a quick google search which led me to your AmmoLand News website. I saw the article and decided to buy some FLAK 45s. Looked like an oversize club in bullet form.
Got my ammo delivered and went out to the country last weekend. It was very much like using WD40 for the first time. The pictures of my old shed didn’t come out very well but the bullets work just like on the video. Watermelon-history! After going through a couple of bags (I bought 4) my “definitely not an expert” report is that the bullet goes through everything-including a 50 year old shed at about 15 feet-and the little pellets are pretty fierce as well. At the same 15 feet, they were buried into the wood. If it was flesh instead of wood, it would definitely cause damage.
It is an interesting feeling when you can really just “point and shoot” and know that you will hit your target.
Every once in a while, you find something that makes so much sense, is simple, and works. You kick yourself for not thinking of it yourself. Who would have thought, with all of the brilliant resources around, that nobody thought of this before.
I went back to the AmmoLand website and was looking at the comments. Did those commenters even bother to try the product? I did and I just ordered some more (I guess I got a little excited and blew threw the first order-though I did save ONE.) Who are those people? In my business, “blame the victim” is used all of the time. But “oh, its her fault for not going to the range enough,” seems a little callous when we are talking about a home intrusion, don’t you think? I know that I saved one; it is in the chamber of the 45 under my pillow.
When my next order arrives, I’ll get some pictures and video and post them. Thanks for turning me on to this product; you did me a big favor. It really is a relief, in a way. Like your article says, it just works. It did for me.
R. P. M.
I like the Flak .45 ammo. I think it is great. I bought some myself and it works as advertised. Those complaining about it never tried or used the stuff. Plus I am not an elitist shooter who can afford to spend $500 a week at expensive action shooting ranges honing my skills to a super fine degree. I do not see the shot as being a serious problem as the shot has a limited range compared to how far a bullet will go. But the shot will be very distracting to an assailant, even if it doesn’t kill him… Read more »
You should buy a few pouches of these
Pain threshold or not if you take out his eyes how will he get you?
The website wont allow any more replies to James’ messages above so I am replying here as well to others I see the suggestion that somehow dry-fire or “snap-caps” is an acceptable replacement for actual live fire training. ALL dry fire does is to exercise the draw portion of the motion. It has NOTHING to do with either maintaining weapon control or muzzle recovery during and after a discharge. I am NOT suggesting that everyone needs to shoot 1K per week and short of actually taking one of the “evil courses” that have been bantered around no one really does… Read more »
Well said Doc. If I weren’t such a crass individual I would write like that. Then again, there are certain people that won’t be reached by reasoned speech.
I have NO issue with the round in terms of its stopping power the slug seems to be well shaped and there “appears” to be enough energy the ONLY real issue is the pellets and their value at all Short if the examples snake rounds or the like I can’t see why one wouldn’t just use a beefier slug like a typical JHP and be done with it. If you are using a hand gun you are well within a close range so with that said if you need the assistance of a scatter round to hit your target then… Read more »
Going to all of these comments, I’ve noticed that the narcissists and elitists, those fine folks are adamantly against this type of ammunition, are steering very, very, widely, clear of addressing any of the specific points I made pertaining to shooting distances, or that the author of the article made, referring to accuracy rates of what has been described as ” the finest trained law enforcement agency in the world.”: aka, the New York City Police Dept All I’ve seen is a bunch of blather about why “Yes you’re poor but you that doesn’t abrogate your legal responsibility if you… Read more »
If it’s good for the trumps it’s good for me go trump and god bless America
“You’ve seen this constant attack. And I’ve seen it in my states and I can’t order ammunition you know online and they say, ‘Well, this man was arrested and he had a thousand rounds of ammunition in his vehicle,’” Trump Jr. said.
“Excuse me, I have a thousand rounds of ammunition in my vehicle almost at all not only that I alway have my FLAK .45 in my chamber because it’s called two bricks of .22 +1,” Trump Jr. insisted.
I think everyone that has commented is a troll and are butt hurt for not coming up with this on their own. I heard patriot will be offering load data and the ability to purchase components For the reload market what do you trolls think about that.
Not much. What else do you have?
I have a question. Why are the initials given for the author of this article given as R. P. M. when the original author was a Mr. Kernan ESQ? I am beginning to doubt the authenticity of the authorship of the article. And to James Bailey: No one is insisting that you spend beyond what you determine to be your means. What is being pointed out is that you will be held accountable to a certain standard no matter how much you practiced, what ammo you used, or how much money you spent doing so. Pleading poverty because a shooting… Read more »
Maybe the M is McKernan dummy
So his last name is, McKernan dummy. Thanks, that clears it up nicely. They don’t call you “Daddy” for nothing.
If bird shot is a bad idea I suppose everyone who has a revolver that shoots 45 LC and 410 has better leave them at home. I understand the personal responsibility but if he is using the ammo for home defense more power to him. I wouldn’t carry such a round for personal defense but that is my choice for myself. I would not be so bold as to make a decision like that for some else. It still is, well kind of, a free country and everyone who fires a weapon in self defense had better be ready to… Read more »
Robert, There you go, making real world actual points, that pertain to reality! Unlike so many others in this thread, you actually took time to read the article and consider what was written! I wish the others had taken the time to do the same! I wonder how many of these fine folks who are screaming like raped apes against the ammunition, and against people who might carry it, or people like me who can’t train to the level of the narcissists and elitists, own side arms like the Judge, or others as you noted that shoot 45lc or especially… Read more »
Hi James, I’m one of those Hi Cap Beretta owners you mentioned a ways back up there I suppose. I don’t carry it since a full size 92 is a ridiculous option for concealment in Florida, but it does live in the nightstand with 21 rounds of Federal HST 124g, plus another 20rd mag next to it. The reason I have those mags for it isn’t that I’m some Billy Badass – I get out to the range to practice maybe twice a year – it’s that I know full well that I could miss (and probably would) if I… Read more »
Hey Avi, Like you I’m a fan of the Federal HST jacketed hollow-points for my 9 millimeter, but in the 147 grain weight. I chose my bullet Choice based upon research on expansion rates, controllability, and a considerably more limited penetration then lighter-weight bullets. YouTube has a reviewer who goes by the cognomen tn9outdoors, who does a wonderful ballistic gel series for a wide range of ammunition and calibers. Average expansion for the 147 grain jhp from Federal was .72 inches in diameter, whilst penetration averaged about 12 to 13 inches. I understand the hicap argument, as I too own… Read more »
Multi projectile loads have been around as long as handguns. They’ve never been that popular, because they aren’t very effective. A shotgun is so terrifyingly effective, not because it spreads shot across a wide area, but because the large bore allows a huge payload, and the shot pattern doesn’t even begin to spread much at all until it reaches about seven yards. At the very short ranges typically encountered inside the home, it delivers a crushing blow over a relatively small area, causing massive shock and trauma. A handgun can’t deliver that big swarm of lead. The bore is too… Read more »
So, let’s review: The original article from this lawyer in Seattle was much longer than the current one, included his name, and had a bunch of other silly things that he felt he needed to share with us “rubes.” That article is gone along with my comment about him and his ignorance about things ballistic. Come on Ammoland, I thought you were better than that.
Lots of comments from the 3P’s (perfect pistol people)
They have never missed a shot never get scared or nervous face every sItuition like a cold hard badass. WOW to be one of them. The point about this round is in the event you miss by the smallest amount you still leave a mark on the perp. Oh yes you already checked the background and area before hand 3P’s. The bird shot does change the balance of the event, perp is injured, instead of untouched….
Not at all. The posts are from people that believe in self-defense and know that shots (“shot”, as the case maybe in this instance) not on target are liabilities, both criminal and civil. The spread from this cartridge poses a great potential liability for lawful self-defense (see pic of many of the shot not on target). One might as well use a shotgun if one is unconcerned about “collateral damage”. If you believe bird shot from that cartridge is enough to stop the threat, why have a .45 cal bullet to begin with? Again, just use a shotgun – a… Read more »
I wondered when some company was going to try this, although I would not have thought of it as a self-defense round! Handloaders have been making loads like this for a long time, though the usual use is for snakes (the kind with no legs!). If any of you have ever tried (or had to), you know it is very hard to hit a snake with a handgun, and the resulting pattern of a spray of shot with a bullet in the middle is much more likely to result in a first-shot hit. However, most snakes are shot at a… Read more »
John D :: The first thing I though about when I saw this article, was that this would be a dandy snake load, and I am one of the people that believe the only good snake is a dead one !! I also reload so I could make up a batch of these loads cheaper than the 9 + dollars I pay for 22 mag rat / snake shot loads when I can even find them !! The last couple of years it been crazy trying to find any kind of 22 magnum !! My question is what to use… Read more »
Heavy cardboard “wad” over the powder, then the shot..
Some this felt wads will work. I use them all the time in my black powder pistol. Get a gasket maker punch set and cut your own.
They should ha named this article Troll bait wow you guys are nasty must have been picked on your whole life and did I mention stupid
“I’m an attorney living in Seattle.”
“meth-heads; they’re everywhere”
“Got my ammo delivered”
How do you like living in a “Sanctuary City?” Like you mayor?
Did you vote democrap last time? Are you an NRA member?
The reason you had to “Order” your ammo (likely out of state)
is because Seattle has forced all of the local Gun Shops out of existence.
Its an interesting concept and it may at the outset seem to give you a better chance at hitting you intended target but to what end? If you have a hard time hitting a target at 15 feet with one projectile, why would you send more projectiles than just one behind it? Collateral damage to the perp would be acceptable even with buckshot. But in close quarters with innocents surrounding, or in close proximity to the target, would be risky at best. The liability you would surround yourself with using this type of ammo is more than I would be… Read more »
I have some Winchester pdx rounds for my HD shotgun. It has a slug and three 00 pellets. They throw a tight pattern from my shotgun. They are fantastic for their intended use inside my home with all family behind me. I would never put a multiple projectile round into anything I would be carrying outside of my home. You are liable for every fragment of every projectile.
I have a variety of slugs, 00, and 4 shot intermixed in all my shotties. 2 in the bedroom, 1 in the kitchen and on next to my lazy boy. That doesn’t include my edc, which I have on me at all times. When ya live out in the boonies, ya have to be the first line of defense, well 2nd round after my 3 german shepherds. We’ e had the county and local sheriff’s it up to us, cause due to the size of our county and budget cutbacks, they’d more than likely arrive in time to draw the… Read more »
I hope there aren’t any innocent bystanders anywhere near the perp/thing you’re shooting at. Seems like asking for collateral damage.
No kidding. And adding the thought that this ammo somehow makes up for a lack of practice is scary. “Just point and shoot and you know that you will hit your target” is nowhere even close to realistic – and I practice point shooting regularly.
Your arrogance is common amongst the shooting community: the belief, that everyone can afford to shoot as many rounds or even more rounds than you do, every single week! According to you, everyone can afford the gas to go to the range, the range fees, the two to five hundred rounds that you shoot at the range for each visit, and of course that everyone has a vehicle in good shape to get them to the range! The elitism inherent in your position, is that every one can afford tactical class after tactical class, or go down to those very… Read more »
Unfortunately, the target of your temper has a valid point. I have serious budget issues myself. I can’t afford the latest bells and whistles model to come out of the SHOT Show, and practice is a real problem, as there are no ranges nearby even if I could afford tons of ammo. I have back issues, and a right elbow that gives me fits frequently. None of this alters the fact that the right to self defense comes with the responsibility to exercise it legally and with reasonable care and attention to the safety of loved ones, neighbors and bystanders.… Read more »
I’m not disputing the issue that we need to practice: what I’m disputing is the LEVEL of practice that people like that narcissist/elitist demand that everyone maintain!! Like you, I do dry fire exercises, room-to-room exercises, and I do the same thing out in the garage, with a scenario about being in a fast food joint when things go bad! I’m not anti practice at all! What I am against is The Narcissist and the Elitist which demand we should spend two hundred to five hundred bucks a week on firing ammunition we don’t have and can’t buy, at places… Read more »
Muzzle HEAVY (D@#& dinky laptop keyboard).
The assumptions are regarding self defense shootings in public places. If money is an issue, this ammo is too expensive anyway. It would be even more expensive If the shooter put a stray pellet in someone’s face. If someone is a poor shot for any reason, and can’t/doesn’t train, keeping it at home is the right thing to do, especially with this ammo. We have the right to defend ourselves, but not the right to negligently harm the innocent in doing so.
Yeah remind me again why the argument of Glock owners, Beretta, and other Hi-Cap owners always falls to “Yeah, and I’ve got 16, 17, or 20 rounds in my magazine! I can just keep on firing at the bad guys!” You apparently are just like the rest, not bothering to actually read what I’ve written! I’m not rejecting personal culpability for round sent down range, I’m simply stipulating that the loudmouth narcissist and elitist the demand I and everyone else shoot between 200 and 1000 rounds a week, take every tactical course known to humanity, and think they’re all Dead… Read more »
Jim As a surgeon who has spent the last decade or almost two doing free surgeries exclusively I feel your pain. Since I accept no payment regardless of ability to pay I do get my share of both disabled and fiscally challenged patients. My residents and fellows and I also tend to the ED for anything head and neck related Looking at the video I can say this is an ED docs worst nightmare. The initial slug if you will seemed to go to the directed location quiet fine but the “pellet shot” seemed to scatter and will cause far… Read more »
I notice you keep addressing my anger, but none of my specific points. I’m not arguing for anyone shooting willy-nilly, and had you bothered to address the specific points of my posts, you would have noted that fact. I must add, that I have also noted that practice, while never actually making perfect in real world terms, does allow a person to become as proficient as that person is capable. This Again, was one of the necessary implications of why I stressed that I practice, just like millions of other poor people do, to the best of my ability and… Read more »
Anything that can give you an edge and let the bad guy know pain, is in your advantage. The shot won’t kill but will change the hearts and minds of those feeling the impacts of the bird shot, and can change the entire outcome.
You made my point on Training (why would you even admit that?) but one more point; did everyone note the number of pellets that MISSED the silhouette? If you are in an environment where there are innocent civilians and you must fire to save their lives and you’re using this ammo, you can, literally, be assured of “collateral damage” which you will be held civilly and criminally liable for.
This is not ammunition I would ever carry or use under any circumstances.
Good point. Maybe you stop the threat but a pellet enters a bystander’s retina. You’re screwed and deservedly so.