‘Gun Leaders’ Approve of Extreme Protection Orders Opposed by ACLU

What are we clapping and thankful for again? (NRA-ILA Facebook photo)

USA – -(Ammoland.com)- “The city’s police department became the first law enforcement agency in the state to force the surrender of a firearm under a new law known as an ‘extreme risk protection order,’” KOMO News reported. “The incident involves a man who lives in Belltown, who neighbors said had been intimidating people for the past year – even staring-down customers through store-front windows with a gun holstered at his side.”

“There is no statute that addresses whether you can or can’t openly carry,” the Washington State Office of the Attorney General’s website advises, clearly meaning to discourage the practice but not empowered by law to do anything about it.

Hey, maybe the guy is a danger, as a police media advisory suggests, although we should note that if he is, he didn’t go down guns a-blazing when they came for his. Maybe he’s crazy as a loon, which a .25 as his defensive sidearm of choice might suggest. Then again, perhaps it was all he could afford and I wouldn’t automatically dismiss the deterrent effect such a weapon can have as evidenced by the reaction of hysterical locals, nor its effectiveness in a pinch.

But that hasn’t been proven. He’s been disarmed without being convicted of anything. And that concerns, of all groups, the American Civil Liberties Union of Rhode Island:

“The heart of the legislation’s ERPO process requires speculation – on the part of both the petitioner and judges – about an individual’s risk of possible violence. But, the ACLU analysis notes: ‘Psychiatry and the medical sciences have not succeeded in this realm, and there is no basis for believing courts will do any better. The result will likely be a significant impact on the rights of many innocent individuals in the hope of preventing a tragedy.’”

But that hasn’t stopped so-called “conservative” pundits from jumping on the ERPO bandwagon.

Ditto for President Donald Trump.

And “A”-rated Lindsey Graham, who couldn’t team up fast enough with “F”- rated Richard Blumenthal…

Unsurprisingly for those of us who have been following such things (and subsequently enduring the scorn of Fairfax loyalists), the same goes for the National Rifle Association. (UPDATE: Hear for yourself starting at 3:15 in their video. Following that up by saying “they should have strong due process protections” does not change the fact that they really don’t and can’t by their very nature.)

With their sudden affinity for prior restraint gun owner control, they really offer no consistent reason why they wouldn’t also push for actress Troian Bellisario’s idiotic Everytown “boyfriend loophole.” Logically, there is no reason why they wouldn't support it.

So is NRA’s new position that “gun control” works? Or just the kind they endorse?

“[A]s they are currently implemented, these laws come with major pitfalls and potential for serious abuse,” Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership warns. “They violate the principles of liberty and establish a dangerous ‘guilty until proven innocent’ standard. GVROs and ERPOs passed to date violate multiple Constitutional protections beyond the Second Amendment. These include the rights to equal treatment and against unreasonable search and seizure (4th amendment), the rights of the accused (6th), and the right to due process (5th and 14th).”

And, of course, there’s another indisputable reality that none of the proponents of restraining orders want to even acknowledge, let alone talk about:

“Anyone who can’t be trusted with a gun can’t be trusted without a custodian.”

If proven violent persons are still truly dangerous, Robert J. Kukla made a brilliant observation in his 1973 classic “Gun Control,” equating their release from prison with opening the cage of a man-eating tiger and expecting a different result.

If there is “clear, convincing, admissible evidence” that a supposedly “restrained” party is a danger, how is it responsible to allow such a menace access to the rest of us until such time as it can be established that he is no longer a threat? Does anyone think he couldn’t kill with something else? Or, noting routine headlines from places like Chicago and Baltimore, that he couldn’t get a gun? Why wouldn’t he be separated from society, after being afforded real “due process,” with all appropriate protections of course?

Concessions on these measures by the NRA, which in turn gives the green light to Republicans, is nothing short of preemptive surrender. It won’t stop the Democrats from coming back for even more, especially as they perceive they can now effortlessly establish positions from which to launch their next assault.  Meanwhile, they’ll still continue screaming how the “uncompromising and extremist” NRA is “a terrorist organization” (and talk about people who need to have ERVOs filed against them if allegations are all that are needed) and that Republicans are “fascists.”

We know where the “slippery slope” leads, and that the violence monopolists want it all. Giving them anything makes as much sense as tossing a scrap of flesh to a circling pack of jackals and believing that will satisfy them and make them go away.

It’s impossible to believe our “gun rights leaders” don’t know that, which makes it fair to ask — all their defiant fundraising rhetoric about the Second Amendment aside (you know, the one that says “shall not be infringed”) — just how much are they prepared to surrender, and at what point will they become effectively indistinguishable from the “bad” gun-grabbers?

Is this really, as some would have us believe, an elaborate game of three-dimensional chess that we “shall not be infringed” zealots are just too unsophisticated to see and appreciate?  Or is the emperor really not wearing any clothes?


About David Codrea:David Codrea

David Codrea is the winner of multiple journalist awards for investigating / defending the RKBA and a long-time gun owner rights advocate who defiantly challenges the folly of citizen disarmament.

In addition to being a field editor/columnist at GUNS Magazine and associate editor for Oath Keepers, he blogs at “The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance,” and posts on Twitter: @dcodrea and Facebook.

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    NottinghillWild BillRev R Vincent WardeJeffersonianLarry Brickey Recent comment authors
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    Nottinghill
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    Nottinghill

    The ‘Heartland’ and ‘Mid-West’ must push back with a unmovable force of will to retake the West and the East or ALL IS LOST…….. FOREVER!!!!!!!!!

    Rev R Vincent Warde
    Guest
    Rev R Vincent Warde

    Having been a first responder for over 10 years, I cannot support these orders. When there is a real danger a restraining order (order of protection) or an arrest is a much better solution than an order that only removes firearms. Looking at the California experience, there is good and bad news. The good news is that in all of 2016 only 89 orders were issued. The bad news is that all but 10 were lifted once the subject got before a judge. This tells me that the biggest problem with these orders is that there is a high potential… Read more »

    Nottinghill
    Guest
    Nottinghill

    This is one of BEST recent vids on “Shall not be infringed”. Meaning as far as the NRA is concerned,’ it’s time to clean house’.
    PROOF the NRA Stands WITH Anti-Gunners AGAINST the 2nd!

    Nottinghill
    Guest
    Nottinghill

    Some Conservatives, Libertarians and but establishment Republicans (including ‘The Donald’), JUST DON’T GET IT!!! Banning a gun accessories is a “NO GO 2A ZONE”. You can appease, pander and even cut the Socio-comunists taxes all you want, THEY WILL NEVER VOTE FOR A CONSERVATIVE! You can’t fix stupid, Stupid! The 2018 elections will be a soft prelude to 2020. Taking our 2A rights is not going to help any conservatives stay or get into office. Again, benefits of cuttting Socio-communists taxes and appease with 2A bans all you want… THEY WILL NEVER, EVER VOTE FOR A CONSERVATIVE! GOP!!! You can’t… Read more »

    Nottinghill
    Guest
    Nottinghill

    Man I must start using my readers… all the time!
    Now we must make (a) Lamb a real chop by getting him to crossover to OUR side. They’ll (the socio-communists) wooo this guy to his face and secretly despise him. A Conservative Democrat is a oxymoron. NoSuchThing!

    Get that GOP… run on their ticket than switch! Very deceitful but strategically effective.

    2 men enter! One man leave!

    Tionico
    Guest
    Tionico

    One more rotten law shoved down the throats of the rest of the state by the Seattle nutjobs. Washington law, contrary to what our corrupt AtG states in his “opinion”. allows for open carry, and includes language to the effect that for any actionable cause for concern to exist upon someone’s firearm becoming visible there MUST be language or action clearly designed to draw attention to the presence of the firearm, and/or to CAUSE fear in the perception of those seeing it. If this man was simply standing there looking through the storefront windows at people, and doing nothing that… Read more »

    Robert Pollard
    Guest
    Robert Pollard

    Someone asked if there was proof the NRA was okay with this gun grabbing non-sense.
    I read all the posts and didn’t see a response or the requested proof.
    However, I am convinced the NRA has been infiltrated by communist/democrats. They are definitely changing their stance to the democrat removal of small rights until they have everything.
    Voting for leaders in the NRA IS NOT working! Need a different approach to stopping the Communist takeover of the NRA if it’s not too late.

    Tom andrews
    Guest
    Tom andrews

    Can you provid any proof the NRA is backing this .They say they are not backing it.

    Green Mtn. Boy
    Guest
    Green Mtn. Boy

    @ Tom andrews

    Negotiating Rights Away says many things,they also promote Stand and Fight,when in reality it’s stand and capitulate.

    Get involved,vote for a new board of directors and rite the NRA.

    trumped
    Guest
    trumped

    The NRA also was behind manchin and toomey setting up universal registration after newtown. They then later claimed to be against it after writers like codrea and groups like the GOA led an uprising among the grass roots.

    Your money and donations need to go to the GOA, not the NRA.

    Green Mtn. Boy
    Guest
    Green Mtn. Boy

    Negotiating Rights Away and it’s leadership is in the process of relegating it’s self into obscurity,the world is turned up side down when the ACLLU is in favor of protecting gun owners rights and the NRA is not.

    Stephen
    Guest
    Stephen

    Maybe the ploy is to let this happen enough times that sheeple get the idea that NO rights are safe unless the 2A is there to protect them. Just a thought.

    Tionico
    Guest
    Tionico

    if that is the ploy we ARE in serious trouble. that’s sort of like deliberately shoving someone off the roof to make sure the safety harness and lifeline are working.

    Nope, somehow we’ve got to push this garbage back up the black pipe and pour it all over the clowns trying to drown US in it.

    live free or die
    Guest
    live free or die

    All the more reason to build your own personal legal unregistered ghost firearm. They can not take what they do not know you have. When they come to take mine without convicting me of any crime they will only find registered firearms. I will still be armed and prepared to defend my family.

    Lew Tripp
    Guest
    Lew Tripp

    You Got IT. All I can add is “if you come to get mine, you better bring yours.”

    Tionico
    Guest
    Tionico

    if that is the ploy we ARE in serious trouble. that’s sort of like deliberately shoving someone off the roof to make sure the safety harness and lifeline are working.

    Nope, somehow we’ve got to push this garbage back up the black pipe and pour it all over the clowns trying to drown US in it.

    Tionico
    Guest
    Tionico

    Dogs, ultrasound, X ray, magnetic flux….. all are tools in their tolbox to detect whether and where a firearm might be found. They don’t come with a laundry list of guns they THINK you have. They come tear the place apart and find what is there. Until recently it was pretty easy to dispose of a firearm legally without any paperwork to show where it went. Thus a plausible argument would be that you had sold it some years ago in a legal provate party transfer. Tycially the ONLY thing they have is a record from an FFL Record of… Read more »

    Bill
    Guest
    Bill

    When they come for your guns, that is not the time to be trying to hide them. They need to be out, locked and loaded. Our birthright of freedom is not to be surrendered just because some politicians say so. Our existence as a culture of liberty is not to be stamped out even when a majority of people think that our time should be up.

    Rob J
    Guest
    Rob J

    The ERPO law was passed here by voter initiative because the state legislature refused to approve it. The law was destined for failure until King county (Seattle) votes were counted. This law is atrocious an a due process nightmare! The ERPO can be e!placed without knowledge of the person it is placed upon. An ex roommate, ex girlfriend, etc can petition to have one placed against you and there is nothing you can do to stop it. You do not have to exhibit prior violence, tendencies, threats, or even suggestion of violence against self or others. It is entirely up… Read more »

    JS
    Guest
    JS

    Once again our no gun control and we are pro 2A all the way leaders have imposed another restriction on law abiding owners without giving us anything in return. How messed up is this world when the ACLU says these laws are a burden on normal people.

    Laddyboy
    Guest
    Laddyboy

    MONITORS,
    I have posted TWICE.
    Neither has shown up!
    Why am I being censored?

    Jeffersonian
    Guest
    Jeffersonian

    You’re not being censored. There are no monitors. Ammoland’s comment system is notoriously buggy. Whole threads will disappear, only to reappear hours or days later.

    Laddyboy
    Guest
    Laddyboy

    I agree!

    Lowell
    Guest
    Lowell

    Trump was ready to capitalize on this either way the chips fell. He always is. In the process he managed to get the Dems to sabotage their own gun control bills on fears that they would actually pass which would kill their midterms hopes. Trump is NOT a 2A crusader, either way. It’s not on his radar. He will sell us out for a good enough deal, which it doesn’t look like he got this time around, or help us out to bolster his support. Like most Boomers and even older GenXers, he is in favor of “reasonable” gun control… Read more »

    Badabing
    Guest
    Badabing

    If someone is unjustly (according to a reasonable and prudent person under the circumstances – same as self defense) disarmed, all involved should be liable for $100K(pick a big #) for denying a civil right, Including police, complainant(s), judge, DA. That should eliminate gun grabbing.

    Larry Brickey
    Guest
    Larry Brickey

    The state allows for that. If you are proven innocent the state covers all your costs.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @LB, “The state allows”! Are you a fascist? Do you think that “the state” covering all your costs” (even if it were all costs, and it is not all costs) would make up for denial of the liberty to walk around, breath fresh air and exercise one’s Constitutional Civil Rights.
    The state, the state, no one but the state! LB

    trumped
    Guest
    trumped

    No more gun control laws! Pretty sad that the commies at the aclu are doing a better job than the nra at defending these nonsense gun control schemes. Email and call your senators, congressmen, nra customer service reps, and donate to the GOA. Also, share this article all over social media and send it to friends. This is the only way we can fight back against the latest gun banning tactics of the civilian disarmament industry.

    MICHAEL DAVIDSON
    Guest
    MICHAEL DAVIDSON

    I belong to GOA. And will join Second Amendment Foundation as well. We also need more fighters like Ted Cruz, Rand Paul ,Mike Lee sweep out the establishment lifers.

    Laddyboy
    Guest
    Laddyboy

    AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ben
    Guest
    Ben

    It is a crazy world where the ACLU is defending gun owners.

    isali ben-Jacob
    Guest
    isali ben-Jacob

    Thank you David for well constructed arguments opposing multiple Rights within our Bill of Rights. And thanks to the ACLU for their consistent support of our Bill of Rights. HooRah to both. The take away for me is a reminder that one should remain without prejudice in evaluating events and always always true to principles – the totality of our Bill of Rights. Thank you David