1911 Pistol in 10mm Auto Caliber, Sounds Good But…

Opinion

10mm Round
10mm Round

Ft Collins, CO –-(Ammoland.com)- 10mm Auto.

Last weekend, during a DTI Defensive Pistol Course on the East Coast, a student brought a 1911 pistol in 10mm Auto caliber.

10mm Auto had a brief following when it was first introduced in 1983. But, it never gained significant popularity, and there has been scant demand for the ammunition for at least the past thirty years.

Recently, it has garnered some popularity among handgun hunters. But, as a serious carry pistol, the 10mm has few adherents.

One of them was my student last weekend, but his enthusiasm for the caliber quickly withered as his $1,500.00 pistol failed to cycle time and again! Most common problem was failure to feed.

We cleaned and lubed it, but feeding issued continued.

In our, and his, frustration, we eventually put this student into a GLOCK G19, which of course, ran fine for the duration.

Glock G19 Gen4 Pistol (original image by Aaron Ragusa )
Glock G19 Gen4 Pistol (original image by Aaron Ragusa )

We’ve seen a few other pistols in this caliber at our Courses, but not many, and I’ve never seen one that ran reliably. The 10mm Auto is a long, straight-walled cartridge. It is essentially “designed to fail!”

Pistols chamberd for it usually have tight chambers (for accuracy, you know), which exacerbates the reliability issue.

As a hunting handgun, the 10mm Auto may have a place, so long as you’re not hunting anything dangerous! As a pistol carried for serious purposes, it has few followers, as noted above.

One fewer after last weekend!

/John

Defense Training International, Inc

About John Farnam & Defense Training International, Inc
As a defensive weapons and tactics instructor John Farnam will urge you, based on your own beliefs, to make up your mind in advance as to what you would do when faced with an imminent lethal threat. You should, of course, also decide what preparations you should make in advance if any. Defense Training International wants to make sure that their students fully understand the physical, legal, psychological, and societal consequences of their actions or in-actions.

It is our duty to make you aware of certain unpleasant physical realities intrinsic to the Planet Earth. Mr. Farnam is happy to be your counselor and advisor. Visit: www.defense-training.com

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Joe Benedetto
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Joe Benedetto

My Ruge r SR1911 10mm has around 2000 rounds through it with ZERO trouble.

Roy
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Roy

Another know it all, that doesn’t know it all. The 10mm is great cartridge and it can be loaded mild to to hot for defense or hunting. In the Glock 20 & 29 platform with simple swaping of barrels you csn have a 40,357 Sig, and a 10mm in one handgun. A friend of mine was very fond of his Colt Delta Elite and wouldn’t sell or trade it for anything. So , I can only conclude that author in this case has misdiagnosed the perceived problem. As one commenter stated in their response, limp wristing could be the culprit.

Jack A Furbush
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Jack A Furbush

I have that set up with my Sig 10mm and my Glock 20 as well. I’ve had 2 of the S&W 1006 pistols sense they came out. The Holey Grayle of 10mm pistols would be to get an original Denoris & Dickson Bren 10 with the .45 conversation. I’ve never had a problem with any of my pistols. I just got an S.S. Delta Elite made in 1996. It works just fine too. The BULLSHIT remarks about a cartridge designed to fail makes about as much sence as he does. How can anyone that understands anything about buisness and economic… Read more »

Jerry S.
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Jerry S.

A lot of 1911 malfunctions can be laid at the feet of limp-wristed shooters…..just sayin.

Chris
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Chris

Small sample sizes are statistically meaningless; 10MM in the form of 1076, DE, G20 and G29 have been my EDC since 1991. I stopped logging rounds downrange at 10K, never a FTF (although a few, as in single digits FTE in the DE). Does this mean that the 10MM is a great round? For me it is, but my sample is only marginally more valid than that of the author.
Find what works for you. Stick with it. Drill like your life depends upon it. End of story.

Jim
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Jim

Obviously, base on all the comments, we all have way too damn much time on our hands. I prefer the 120mm smooth bore sabot tank round, but the damn thing is too big for a holster.

Jack A Furbush
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Jack A Furbush

The fact that we shooters take a couple of minutes to offer some comments on this page and to have some turd like you stick a dumd ass remark like that shows you don’t know shit about guns or ammunition and how to use them

jrw
Guest
jrw

Article is a lot light on facts other than the gun had FTFs, which weren’t remedied by cleaning and lubing. So from that the assertion is made that the 10 mm isn’t a good self defense round in a 1911. A lot more elaboration is needed.

Wyatt Milligan
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Wyatt Milligan

10mm has been making a big comeback for better than 10 years and has many great loadings for different purposes. I have 3 10mm pistols that I trust with my life and can shoot in defensive situations as well as any of my .45ACP, .38 Super, or 9mm. My daily carry is a Grand Power P40 10mm that has over 1500 flawless rounds through it. A gun is generally only as good or bad as its operator.

Scotty Gunn
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Scotty Gunn

I have several 10mm s in the 1911 configuration. Extremely reliable and accurate as all get out. Doesn’t the Glock only guy know they also make a reliable 10mm? I have several of them,too. I have owned 1911’s in ten since it was introduced. Amazing caliber for the knowledgeable.

Timothy Votaw
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Timothy Votaw

Weighing in. Marine combat vet (2 Purps behind it, jus’ sayin’.) Got an early Colt Delta Elite, with good 180 gr. ammo, no FTF’s over a lot of practice. Good enough so I added a G20 to the stable, and still no problems. I worked in the woods solo as a fed agency HazMat investigator (y’know – rolling meth labs, haz waste dumping, with bad guys around. Not official issue and I didn’t publicize it, but I carried a G20 out there, wanted the margin. I’ll keep ’em, both. YMMV, obviously.

Mitch Price
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Mitch Price

I agree totally I’ve got a G 20 and haven’t had a bit of trouble. I carry it all the time.

John Dale Langford
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John Dale Langford

I have a Rock Island 10mm 1911. When it was new the only problem I had was the magazine would drop out. I sent it back to Armscor they fixed it and I have had no problems with it at all. I guess the pistol forgot “the designed to fail” memo.

MAH
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MAH

John, It seems you are stating your case on the operation of only a few pistols. I’ve been smithing for over 40 years and have build a bunch of 1911’s in 10muther-muther. I have never had an issue in making them run as reliable as any other 1911 in any other caliber. I agree it is not the best defensive caliber in full house loads but that is a subjective matter and reliability certainly isn’t the reason for my comments. I also worked for S&W for a number of years and have 2 1006’s that have hundreds of rounds down… Read more »

Charles
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Charles

Those of us who have known John Farnham for decades know that he knows … and that he’s been there. “He will do to ride the river with.” John is cautioning that the most critical feature in any defensive fighting pistol is functional reliability. What he is saying is that there are other cartridges, especially for the 1911 platform, that function more reliably. I have loved, owned, and carried 1911’s for 60+ years. They can be wonderful in many calibers, but function most reliably in 45 ACP, 9 mm Luger, and 357 SIG. Some cartridges (ie: 9mm Luger, 357 SIG,… Read more »

Jack A Furbush
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Jack A Furbush

I’ve carried a S&W 1006 as a cop for the past 18 years. Never had problem 1 with it. Mine will feed it’s own or a new unfired case. It don’t get any better. I wish the Glock 20 had been around back in my LAPD days. Nothing wrong with the S&W M10 I had to carry. But would have preferred The Glock over the Beretta 92 or Colt 1911A1 for SWAT work. Being on the long rifle I never had to use a handgun, but did 3 times as a patrolman. Had to carry the 1911A1 in the Marine… Read more »

Stephen Culbertson
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Stephen Culbertson

One man’s seriously under informed opinion. There are some 10mm that function great and I own 2 – Sig P220 SAO and Glock – no problems at all and I would trust my life with either even up to Grizzlies. Yeah, my edc’s are usually 9mm or 45acp but mostly because of weight.

Brick
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Brick

10mm, to be or not to be? The FBI used it in glocks. 40 cal lacks the punch. I use .45acp I just dont use federal ammo as it short cycles. I handload my kimbers and ruger sr 1911 and a thousand to 1500 rounds a year without isues. I have buddy’s that take their 10mm thru tactical courses without failures. The issue really is more of peoples cleaning habbits. Fkn 50 and .308 LMG fail to feed all the time if enough rounds heat em up. Nothing wrong with the wifes CC Springfield in 10mm either. Guess they just… Read more »

Sp
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Sp

My glock 20 is Rock solid. Never had a feeding issue. I also have a Glock 34 and it needs to be cleaned more frequently or it will jam. It’s also important that you use decent ammo. I typically use sigs 10mm fmj for the range and my gun can cycle 100 rounds of that and it never jams. Also not for limp wrists as it kicks like a mule. At the end of the day I don’t think a 1911 is a very ergonomic gun. You could probably save money and go with a different brand with a better… Read more »

Jack A Furbush
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Jack A Furbush

I’m not sure what 1911 pistols you’ve tried. The 1911 has been with us for 107 years. Designs come and go but the 1911 has stood the test of time. It’s surely battle and street proven. My two G.I. and 4 Colt Govt. Models and one 1968 L.W.Commander always go bang when I pull the trigger. For the last few years one Glock pistol or another depending on what model or caliber I feel like today has been my EDC only because the value of a 1911A1 made in 1943 and 1944 as well as a series 70 Colt Govt.… Read more »

Harry in Ohio
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Harry in Ohio

I carry my Glock 10mm with hot Underwood ammunition when in northern Montana for grizzlies. I practice with it using the same loads. After years of shooting, I have NEVER had a feeding problem. I use heavier springs and an aftermarket 6 inch barrel with a compensator on it. I agree with those that say the person might be a little hesitant of recoil and not hanging on tight thinking that will some how make the felt recoil be less.

Charles Millo
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Charles Millo

10 mm hate

Glenn
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Glenn

Doesn’t like them cause the recoil hurts his limp wrist…..

Robert Byczek
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Robert Byczek

I shot Delta Elite with a comp, trigger job, red dot in IPSC/USPA in competition and never had a burp or glitch. Also have an EAA and a 6 inch Glock, love them all. As with any, ya gotta give them a good platform or they will fail to feed…

Carusomv
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Carusomv

I’ve got a Tanfolgio and a Dan Wesson and the only feeding problems either has ever given me have been Magazine spring related or limp wrist related. With over 5000 rounds through the Tanfolgio and over 500 through the Dan Wesson I think that’s a pretty good track record. The 10mm is a powerful cartridge and you can’t forget that the shooter has to do his job by holding the things still while it’s Cycles, definitely not a cartridge for the limp-wristed or inexperienced shooter.

HankB
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HankB

If my only experience with 1911s in .45 ACP was my Colt Government Model .45, I could say the same thing about the .45 ACP cartridge; that turkey of a gun hardly ever made it through a magazine of hardball without malfunctioning, usually several times. And repeated trips to Colt’s laughable “warranty” service didn’t change things. It did, however, make me swear off Colt firearms. (For the warranty NONservice, not the bad pistol. Other problem guns I’ve had actually WERE addressed by the manufacturers.)

Jack A Furbush
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Jack A Furbush

It’s unfortunate that Colt today isn’t the same as the Colt of even 25 years ago. It’s obvious that you’re gun never should have left the factory that way. The frame or slide or both where our of tolerance. CNC milling machines are great with a trained operator. Unfortunately these are far and few between. I worked at Sig Arms as a security Officer for a couple of years 6 years ago and saw first hand what a bunch of monkeys they had on 2nd shift and 3rd shift production. I can’t speak to 1st shift, never worked one. The… Read more »

HankB
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HankB

Just as an FYI – the Colt 1911 .45 ACP Jammamatic incident I mentioned was over 25 years ago. If the Colt of today isn’t even up to the Colt of back then – when they couldn’t/wouldn’t honor their warranty and return a FUNCTIONAL gun to me – it’s a wonder they’re not gone altogether. (BTW, unlike that Colt Jammamatic, my Les Baer .45 and my E-series S&W 1911Sc work flawlessly.) Any manufacturer can put out a pistol that isn’t right – the good manufacturers will fix it, or, failing that, replace it. COLT DID NOT, despite repeated chances.

Chuck
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Chuck

You can’t limp wrist a 10mm and expect it to function. Compact 45 autos will do the same thing.

John McCain
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John McCain

What a Maroon as bugs bunny would say. The 10mm is one of the most versatile cartridges, I personally have put thousands of rounds down range and have yet to have any real issues with it. I think most shooters would disagree with your article.

Tom P
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Tom P

My EAA Witness Tangfolio 10mm runs flawlessly with all types of ammo if have fed it. Never a problem. It has a double stack mag, and have shot over 600 rounds through it without a hitch. Cleaned it at 300 rounds. I also own a Rock Island Armory 1912 in 10mm, with an 8 round mag. Five inch barrel. I also have never had a problem firing various types of ammo through it. I have about 400 rounds through it now. So I am not sure if the student got a lemon, or just what happened. My experience with 10mm… Read more »

TrueBornSonofLiberty
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TrueBornSonofLiberty

How many fighting pistol type training classes have you run those 10mm’s through? Or have all those rounds been from a static firing line? Thx!!

Laird
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Laird

I consider the uneven performance of the cartridge in some weapons as more of an industry inexperience issue than anything inherent with the cartridge itself. More practice in designing weapons for the cartridge would solve the issue, in my opinion. It can’t be treated as ‘just another round,’ it’s beefy enough that you can’t use the standard approach. I’ve seen similar issues in ‘up-gunning’ pistols designed for .380 to 9mm. ‘Should work’ often doesn’t.

REM1875
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REM1875

I want the Hi Point 10 MM

REM1875
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REM1875

I love my 10 mm Ruger revolvers ……

Todd Jaffe
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Todd Jaffe

I have 5 10mm guns. 4 are 1911 models, 1 is a Glock. All feed perfectly. Someone has a bias!

Raymond Kevin Williams
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Raymond Kevin Williams

Because your 5 guns work fine someone has a bias? I’ll bet I could find 5 Ford p into that don’t explode after a year end collision but that does not mean the car doesn’t have a serious design flaw. Or that all the explosion reports were biased!

Jack A Furbush
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Jack A Furbush

Geee. I guess I need to tell the 8 10mm pistols I own to quit working. 3 of them are 1911 guns. Two Colt Delta Elites and one is a pistol I built myself. The 1911 can be built to work with any round that feeds through the magazine if you know what you’re doing. That’s why the 1911 has been around for 107 years and still going. It’s such a simple design almost any idiot can use it. Being a recoil operated weapon it requires a firm grip to function. Most people can figure that out after some training… Read more »

Jack A Furbush
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Jack A Furbush

Most of the pistols that won’t run with the 10mm and 40 S&W are either design or Q.C. issue. Originally gun makers just put heavier recoil, hammer springs and new magazine, new barrel.That didn’t work. Guns built around the new rounds normally run just fine. As of today I’ve got the S&W, Colt, Glock, and Sig 10mm pistols. They all run just fine with both factory and my reload training round. I seriously doubt that my pistols are the rare exception

Matt
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Matt

Terribly uninformed article. Bah

Michael T.
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Michael T.

You are exactly right…. My Glock 20 10 mil. has Never let me down….Every deer and black bear has been DRT.

Caaey
Guest
Caaey

I have a Dan Wesson Bruin in 10mm and a Grand Power P40 in 10mm. I have has no issues with either gun. Obviously the DW is a high quality 1911 ans has a fully supported feed ramp.

I do think the 10mm is a fantastic round with can be loaded ro 40 S&W levels or loaded to stop 4 legged animals. To each their own. I love shooting my guns that are in 45 ACP but 10mm is a blast too!

Dave Satterthwaite
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Dave Satterthwaite

So the full power 10mm is equal to the 41 mag. You could be slightly off on the not for hunting thing.

David Barneko
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David Barneko

Wrong 10mm has more powder look at the ballistics for the 10 in the 40 caliber

CHRIS
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CHRIS

It is not equal to the 41 magnum, that’s a myth that needs to die. At its best, it’s equal in energy to a good 357 Magnum. You can’t compare the hottest 10mm to the weakest 41 Mag and say they are equals…

Jack A Furbush
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Jack A Furbush

The 10mm is more like a .357 mag in an 8 to 15 round pistol. The ballistic performance of the .41 mag my look good on paper, shooting the 2 side by side it ain’t so. The 210 gr jhp has more ass then the 180 hot 10mm

Stoney
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Stoney

Anecdotal evidence with a data pool of one firearm? This is why I quit reading gun articles. More groupthink based on anecdotes. We don’t need that. We need real data. Inrangetv FTW.

Peach
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Peach

My double stack Rock Island 10 MM has yet to fail. The FBI was responsible for the commercial development of the 10 .it was shortened to 40 Sw because smaller agents couldn’t cope with the recoil. I’LL be keeping my 10.

Gary
Guest
Gary

I’ve owned 7 1911s in 10mm and a S&W 1006 and the only one that wasn’t reliable was a Kimber. But I fixed it. My only problem was that after a few match stages I was just beat. So, I eventually switched to 9mm because I couldn’t take the beating. I still believe the 10mm is an awesome cartridge. But, it should have a rim and be chambered in good revolvers.

Jack A Furbush
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Jack A Furbush

In a revolver you can just as well use a .357 mag and call it even. Plenty of them floating around and not as expensive

Jack A Furbush
Guest
Jack A Furbush

I’ve had both a Colt Delta Elite Stainless Steel & S&W 1006 sence 1990. Both run 100% with both factory and my training loads. I’ve had a Gen 3 Glock for the past 11 years, it’s got twice the round count of the Smith and makes a great winter carry piece. It’s not that much bigger than my Glock 22, and packs more punch than most practical carry loads. The Glock is like carrying a 15 round .357 mag, nothing wrong with that. In spite of all the flap in print about defence ammo it dosent make any difference what… Read more »

Brad Snyder
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Brad Snyder

Well heck. Guess I’ll have to tell my G20 that it’s ruining the stats by never having a feeding problem. Must have gotten a bad one

Sal Chichon
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Sal Chichon

I know what you mean. Hey! Maybe you and I should tell Glock to stop making weapons chambered in quite possibly the most versitile handgun cartridge devised thus far by human beings. Don’t they know that it’s a fool’s errand?! “Designed to fail,” donchaknow?!

Andre Havard
Guest
Andre Havard

Hmm , exactly my EDC is my Glock 20 and soon it’ll be little brother the Glock 29 but wearing his big brother magazine for better concealment.
I haven’t had any problems my and don’t see any reason why I should.

Barry
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Barry

Same here!

Avenger
Guest
Avenger

My Delta Elite runs just fine, between myself and family we’ve put at least a couple thousand rounds through it. I would have left the class rather than use the Glock

hillhunter
Guest
hillhunter

I love it!! Seriouly! The ugly plastic guns just don’t have the soul that a finely crafted Delta Elite possesses! I’m with you Avenger, I would’ve left too or borrowed a revolver before I went plastic! BTW, I’ve seen Glocks jam at IDPA matches and it’s always “.. it must be the ammo..” LOL. Meanwhile my 1998 Colt Commander with a worn blue finish just keeps on knocking down the steel.

GPC
Guest
GPC

A proper break in is key with a 1911. Typical internet bullshitter wrote this article. So sick of instructors that have never been in a fight telling how it is.

Jack A Furbush
Guest
Jack A Furbush

In a revolver you can just as well use a .357 mag and call it even. Plenty of them floating around and not as expensive

Jack A Furbush
Guest
Jack A Furbush

The 10mm is more like a .357 mag in an 8 to 15 round pistol. The ballistic performance of the .41 mag my look good on paper, shooting the 2 side by side it ain’t so. The 210 gr jhp has more ass then the 180 hot 10mm

Jack A Furbush
Guest
Jack A Furbush

Spot on. A GUN fight is not an IDPA match. You need to know you’re weapon like you’re life depends on it If you want to win in both

3manfan
Guest
3manfan

Sounds like the student failed to shoot the pistol sufficiently with the ammo he brought before attending this course to ensure consistent functionality with both. Anyone that doesn’t do this is an idiot. All training programs should make it clear on each course application that at least 500 rounds must be fired with the weapon(s) to be used, no later than a week of the course’s start day.

JP
Guest
JP

Anybody dare to temp him with running 40 in a Glock 20? Oh the horror.

JP
Guest
JP

WTH is wrong with you people? A cartridge that’s “designed to fail”? I personally love the best mm but just because Mr. Farnam doesn’t like it doesn’t mean it’s junk. I personally hate Glocks. I own several. One happens to be a gen 3 Glock 20 in 10mm. It’s stupid reliable. It simply eats what it’s fed. I’m also shopping around for a 1911 in 10mm. Eh gat the horror. I would give your a good Southern bless your heart but I can’t say as you deserve it. Today is not my day to begin suffering fools.

Mike jensen
Guest
Mike jensen

I doubt I have read a more negatively biased and ignorant article in my life. Too much for you? Choose another while you still have the right to do so. The 10mm cartridge will stand on its own merits regardless of the nay-sayers who give it bad press. Diversity… amazing concept!

Roger
Guest
Roger

Right on

Charles
Guest
Charles

I have a new Delta Elite that has run flawlessly through 400 plus rounds of all brands of ammo-runs clean has never been field striped only wiped clean with a oily cloth….

devon trolia
Guest
devon trolia

I personally carry a 10 ….colt delta to be exact. I carry the pistol every day and shoot it almost everyday at my range. The only time I have issues is when I shoot crappy ammunition through it. As for carry ammunition it loves the xtps and feed reliably

Gaspar Cruz III
Guest
Gaspar Cruz III

Run 5,000 rounds total in my Tangfolio Witness with no problems. I do clean it after 300 rounds or so.

JLB
Guest
JLB

I own three 10MM and have shot them all USPSA and multi gun matches using light load and full power loads.
My only problem has been finding the brass. And a slight problem with a light recoil spring. I have a Colt delta elite, S&W 1096 and a STI and other than a light recoil have not had a problem. I’ve had the colt since 1985

Dale
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Dale

I’ve never had a single issue any of the 10mm firearms I have owned. I’ve had numerous issues with 9mm though. DUH …

Sal Chichon
Guest
Sal Chichon

Gosh, I wish I new my 10 mm G40 was designed to fail when I ran it without a hitch at multiple shooting matches. Hell, I didn’t even know the “problem” of running a cartridge designed to fail was worse considering my KKM barrel (“for accuracy, of course”) I used for the competion.

Running 10 mm in a 1911 is like running an LS3 in a go-cart, and then complaining the go-cart can’t handle the power.

What a foolish post!

James Newland
Guest
James Newland

Ditto..

Kevin
Guest
Kevin

You never know — I’ve run roughly 4,000 rounds through three different 10mm guns with some problems like the author states. My first 10mm was a Delta mk3 (2015) that ran perfectly with all type of inexpensive practice brands (Remm, S&B & Privi) ; second 10mm was a G20 gen4 that had some feeding trouble with all type practice brands even Sig FMJ; lastly, I have another Delta mk4 (2018) that failed to feed most types of practice AND self defense rounds but after a feed ramp polish and once-over by local gunsmith it runs fine up to 150 rounds… Read more »