Anne Arundel County, Maryland – -(AmmoLand.com)- Foxbaltimore.com is reporting that a Maryland resident was killed by police as they tried to enforce a “Red Flag Gun Confiscation Order” at 5:17 am in the morning on Monday, November 5th, 2018.
Information is incomplete at this time but according to Fox Baltimore;
“Anne Arundel County Police are investigating an officer-involved shooting that occurred Monday morning in Ferndale.
Police spokesman Jacklyn Davis said officers responded to 103 Linwood Avenue at around 5:15 a.m. to serve an “emergency risk protective order,” also known as the red flag order.
The man answered the door armed with a handgun and a struggle ensued as officers attempted to disarm the man, Davis said.
During the struggle, the man’s handgun discharged and police fired shots, Davis said.
Davis says no Anne Arundel County officers were injured in the struggle. The suspect was pronounced dead on scene.”
Maryland Governor Hogan disregarded veto requests and signed “red flag” bill (HB 1302) in Spring of 2018. Under that bill as it became law, virtually anyone can ask a law enforcement officer to file an ex parte petition with a state district court judge or commissioner and allege that the gun owner poses an immediate danger to himself/herself or others because (and only because) he or she possesses firearms. If the court issues the order, the police can show up on the doorstep and seize the person’s firearms without notice or warning.
All it takes is a family member, dating partner, or roommate to claim that someone is a danger to themselves or others to have his or her Second Amendment rights stripped away by a secret court hearing.
Right advocates predicted that this new movement of taking your rights with Red Flag Orders might have deadly consequences and called for vetos of this law and others in multiple states.
Stupid cops following unconstitutional non-laws. So how many citizens are they going to murder before this crap is ovrturned??????
Unconstitutional and illegal MURDER BY SS POLICE is what it should be labeled.
It is with great sadness I read this article. I am sad for the man dying, for his family, for the circumstances, and for whatever happened that made the situation come to the conclusion it did that day. I am a God-fearing concealed carry female who loves her country, is an Army vet, works hard, and loves her husband with everything she has. A deplorable…and one who’s oath will never expire. HOAH!! That being said, I will never give up my guns to anyone. I will also never give anyone the fuel to WANT to take away my guns. Those… Read more »
Very well said. Thank you for your service and thank you for your continued patriotism. I stand with you!
Thank you for your selfless service to this country. You and your brothers in arms protect us and we should not take it for granted.. It seems so many people here seem to take the freedom, you have helped us keep, for granted. When it’s gone they will be the first ones to cry & complain. No more I-pads, I-phones, watching what they want on TV, no freedom of speech, etc etc.. As it is this country is on the brink of loosing all we take for granted.
While we bullshit and play “How Smart I Am”, nothing but words and no solutions. Those arrayed against gun owners daily flaunt their disregard of any Constitutional restrictions and people lose their Rights, get the shit beaten out of them for not complying,.and most of all, you have Police, who claim to be Americans, “Just Following Orders”.. We are in the midst of a civil war and the enemy are those residents allied with our government; wether by Laws and rules by State, county, city, and even to the Supreme Court itself. We gun owners are damn near in full… Read more »
It won’t surprise me that the next time somebody tries a 5AM no knock assault on someone’s home that the knockers get shot, maybe killed. Who would not answer the door with a gun after it is knocked in by “someone” claiming to be the cops? I wonder how many home invasions happen just this way? Sooner or later the second war of independence will start like this, just as it did the first time— at Concord– when the Britts (the ruling authorities at that time) tried to disarm the public. Obama bin laden, pun intended, sold more guns than… Read more »
Here’s a Biblical principle for you (and everybody reading this); it actually PERFECTLY sums up the meaning and purpose of the Second Amendment. Best read from the KJV.
Read Psalms 149:5-9.
Note that the “two-edged sword” was the “assault weapon” of the day.
25 yrs ago in another country if such a thing happened the US would be assisting the raid that snatches the Governor of Maryland, and spirits him to the The Hague to stand trial for capital war crimes.
One of these days – soon – it is going to go differently for the police.
Can some one please explain where is the confusion in this statement.
“A well regulated militia, being the best security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
And #2? As in right after #1?
The police were in violation of USC 18-242: 18 USC § 242. Deprivation of rights under color of law The Gist: Anyone who, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, custom or regulation, willfully deprives any person of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, shall be fined, or imprisoned for up to one year, or both. If bodily injury results, or if the violation includes the use or attempted or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosive or fire, the prison term rises to up to ten years. If… Read more »
Al:
Assuming your reading and understanding of the relevant U.S. Code is correct, the following question looms uncomfortably large and unanswered. How come it seems that the appropriate authority, the U.S. Attorney for that district has not yet instituted proceedings under the applicable section of the U.S. Code. Forgive me if I pose the proverbial dumb question.
That is MY question, exactly. Though I got that summation from a web page, I went on the DOJ’s website, and that is the exact wording they had. Maybe it is because the conspiracy is too wide spread, and the ‘movers and shakers’ are above the law??? On another forum, I got the reply that it has been decided that Civil Rights are not absolute. But this is not a question of how far the right goes, it is about conspiring to subvert that right. Which clearly exists, in some form, in the Bill of Rights.
I sent a query to the owner of Oregon Firearms Federation. He said they never thought of it before, and is running it by his lawyers. I also sent a query to the US DOJ Civil Rights division, though I don’t expect a response. I am surely not certain about the relevance, but it surely raises some questions, I believe it was enacted in the late 40’s as part of the Civil Rights movement to protect minorities. But the 2ndA is an enumerated Civil Right, and the statute seems applicable. ???
Earlier comment having failed to appear, I will try again. Regarding the portions of the U.S. Code you mention, how come the appropriate authority, the U.S. Attorney for that district seems to be taking no action re prosecution of what appears a clear violation of U.S. Code? MIght I be posing the proverbial dumb question?
Because it’s the People’s Republic of Maryland
Al:
In a response, you noted that “it had been decided that Civil Rights were not absolute”. Decided by who, whom or what? Please clarify. Thank you.
Have you EVER heard of a LEO – at ANY level – being prosecuted under 18-242? Me either. There are other statutes whereby one may sue the LEO(s) involved civilly. Where/how would one go about finding out if any LEO has ever been prosecuted (successfully or unsuccessfully) under 18-242 or sued (successfully or unsuccessfully) under the statutes authorizing civil suits?
If you live in a state which has been taken over by nazi thugs it is time to get out. States like maryland and california are opening themselves up for mass shootings by criminals who obtain guns illegally and kill a lot of innocent people. States where everybody owns a gun make it very hard for criminal murderers who are let out by liberal judges and obtain guns illegally to harm anyone. The liberals know this but don’t care because their goal is to do what all dictators do, take away your ability to defend yourself and then take away… Read more »
You’ve lost it if you think the nazis are the thugs here.
ayy, well, the Nazis were Socialists, and the current crop of elected Democrats are Socialists, so the comparison fits when the laws and actions match.
@Heed, apparently” ahh ” can not recognize a similitude, a parallel, or a comparison, when he comes across one.
If due process had been followed, instead of in secret, so the gun owner would know beforehand, and had a opportunity to defend against the action in court, this death could have been avoided. It is why i think Red flag laws without due process, is unconstitutional. I hope this case goes to Federal court.
To this end. It is now Dec 8. Has anyone seen a follow up to this they can post?? It is mostly, and conveniently hidden on national news.
These ‘red flag’ laws should send up a red flag to all gun owners. If anyone can just call the police and have them come out and confiscate your weapons everyone is at risk of losing them. Until the snowflake, anti-gun activist, or housewife has to appear before a judge and risk committing perjury the calls will be made. Until the judges act based on facts, not on an abundance of caution or anti-gun sentiment the warrants will be issued. It won’t be long until every gun owner is embroiled in a legal battle for the return of their weapons,… Read more »
Has an action at law, aka a law suit been filed against the police? Has any sort of court action been instituted against the originator of the problem? I do not know how much success would be achieved by either of the above mentioned, however it seems worth having a look at, this being my view of the thing.
I am a retired LEO. The reality of any story is that there are always 2 sides to the equation. To just take one side of any story without other substantiating evidence is setting yourself up for embarrassment. I always wanted to hear both sides before making a rash move into action. If someone says a person should be “red flagged” then I want to see for myself the reason for this comment. It could very well be true or it could be retribution. Any court hearing this should also be asking these same questions. You cannot just take away… Read more »
Here’s how you deal with laws like this. Get the name and address of every police officer, judge ect and file a complaint. When they are overcome then the law will be ignored.
The law should have never been enacted as written. Whoever is registering the fear of potential violence should have to stand in front of the judge and make their case, not make a simple phone call to police, that way if it’s discovered that the claim was false the accuser will have to stand trial for perjury. A crazy girlfriend called the police on my neighbor, my neighborhood was full of squad cars and cops were everywhere with their rifles slung. My neighbor was walked out of his house, cuffed and put into a squad car. The police questioned him… Read more »
Maybe you could get the names of all the police officers and then call and report that they have a gun and may be a danger to someone
Joe, yes I have read that suggestion elsewhere. I suspect that a judge would automatically dismiss such a case because the accused is a LEO – don’t expect fair/just treatment. That does not mean that the LEO isn’t a danger, just not typically to him or other LEOs. However there was that case several years ago, I believe in CA, where an officer did kill other officers and he was hunted down and killed.
@joefoam, Cities have lots of money. If their police make an illegal arrest, then it can be like winning the lottery. The key is a skillful and avaricious lawyer. Consult, “Causes of Action” vol. 9 at 42 USC 1983.
That’s one option, however municipalities have enacted laws to protect themselves from such lawsuits. It is a long, arduous task to take on the gov’t. You’ve heard the phrase ‘you can’t fight city hall’ I’m sure. And if you are dead it really doesn’t matter does it?
You might be dead. What about survivors?
@Joe, Well, the municipalities can not protect themselves from federal lawsuit, and it is true that it takes a long time, but the rewards are great.
A fellow close to me prosecuted his reverse-discrimination lawsuit for ten years (including the appeal) and three months. He had to spend $18,000 of his own up front, but received $300,000, a forced promotion, and back additions to his retirement plan.
If the plaintiff is dead, then it does not matter, but his estates and relatives can to punish the offending municipalities on his behalf.
I do not know how many judges, LEOs, and politicians consider all armed citizens as Red Flags; I do know that there are to many. People that hold their rights against them are also deemed Red Flag “deplorables” best eliminated.
Then disarmament would be less dangerous. Defendants are told that they knew or should have known the results of their acts. LEOs are aware of this.
Seems that altogether to many judges, law enforcement types and politicians fail to realize that there are more of us, the citizenry whose patience they sorely try, than there of them, and quite possibly that the sorely tried patience, above mentioned, is best left unstrained, a concept that seemingly has escaped their attention. Regarding the serving of warrants at 5 AM, who is the idiot who wrote the manual on such proceedure, and is the demonstrated failure of common sense a prerequisite for obtaining such employment?
Dammit, people, it’s “TOO many, not “to many”! “To many liberals, the Maryland gun confiscation law seems reasonable.’
That alone should make you shy of using the word “to” improperly. It’s your language; do you want the Chinese being more proficient in it than you are?
FEAR THE GOVERNMENT THAT FEARS YOUR GUNS.
William, with tablets and “smart” phones, they frequently auto-correct after you have spelled the word. I have noticed where I missed auto-corrections on posts, too. We are just human, but the technology isn’t.
they don’t care, it is in play by design,we will be dancing with the devil soon , or should i say,- the music is about to start .Remember the war on drugs, the motives were all noble and then there were needed for more autonomy and more power and guess where it is today, with asset forfeiture and all that now can be exposed to the clutches of such system, from the use and miss-uses, error or not they will get it any way. Finally we all-r- potential suspects of something ,it is all a matter of perspective or circumstances,… Read more »
“Seems that altogether to many judges, law enforcement types and politicians fail to realize that there are more of us, the citizenry whose patience they sorely try, than there of them” Or as I prefer to put it; The ratio “Indians” to “Chiefs” will always favor the “Indians”. The corollary to that is that a large enough group of REALLY POed unarmed serfs can bring down a fully armed and armored Knight. They will not do so easily or without bloodshed but they CAN do it. As Stalin so insightfully put it, “Quantity has a quality all its own” “Regarding… Read more »
Seems like many in law enforcement are eager to have a confrontation. The simple and safe way would have been to quietly wait for the person to go out of the house (for food, job, etc). The worst plan is try and force their way into his home with many police AND the person having arms available.
Re the numerous adverse comments seen on the latest in Lawenforcement Escapades out of Maryland, I wonder as to the following. How many come from Maryland residents, and perhaps even more important, how did the complaining parties vote in elections past?
@Albbac2 Your a fucking retard if you think voting works. Keep drinking the flouride you fucking sheep.
Terence Miller
My technical as in engineering background leads me to pose the following question. Please think carefully prior to answering, assuming that you might be capable of providing an adult response. EXACTLY what sort of action do you recommend? Note, adult discussion, if you are capable of such, is preferable to childish imprecations and shouting.
Thanks.
So what EXACTLY does your background have to do with this subject? Are you trying to impress the readers of this blog with your expertise in engineering? Are you one of the elitist snobs that want to dictate how everyone conducts their lives? You are more than willing to specify how we are respond to your comments, what else do you want to control? As for how the incident was handled, if the reports are true, and the man had laid down his weapon, the police had deescalated the situation and it should have ended. However the police allowed the… Read more »
I have no desire to exercise any control over whatever it is that you do or say, so long as it does not impact me. I simply stated that I would hope a discussion could be had, absent personalities entering therein. Unfortunately, that might not be the case here. I leave the soap box to you.
If you stop voting they think you’re a surrender monkey. Like you.
I agree with Terence. The odds of positively affecting one’s own outcome by voting have to be less than the odds of winning the lottery, worse still, are the odds of being able to even predict what vote will positively affect ones outcome.
Voting is what the ruling class created to pacify the masses and to accept being ruled again, after the masses figured out that the define right of kings is hogwash. The purpose of voting, today, remains to prevent the people from revolting and ending the state.
Joe:
Noting that you find the political process, voting for instance useless, correct me if I’m wrong, what do you suggest instead.
I suggest an American (or a worldwide rather) spring. Let’s peacefully overthrow the states of the world by refusing to participate. A state is a criminal organization. We don’t need a criminal state to be proud of our people. The state is not us. The state is not America. There have been places, like Ireland, that have lived stateless with a civilization for 1000+ years. While European countries were constantly overthrowing one another and their people were living with parasite kings, Ireland was stable and their society operated in a non-coercive way. Taxation is theft. Steal from someone, a portion… Read more »
I believe it was Joe Stalin that said: “you may vote, but WE count”.
Excellent comment. I agree, how did those who are getting the boot up their keesters vote. Everytime I read about things like this occurring, I also ask myself, how did that individual and their family vote? As far as T.M. comments, that is exactly the problem, putting their heads in the sand and bitch and moan. We have to vote, we have to vote as a block, no matter what only vote for pro-gun Republicans. Or, we will get the government we deserve, much like Maryland and etc. Votes do count and I aint no Sheep for stating this. I… Read more »
I’m not sure if voting is working anymore. This last election, I feel there was major voter fraud committed and its ongoing. How the hell do these democrats keep finding ballots that only are for democratic candidates!?!
@law abiding citizen, here is THE LAW : Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest “Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer’s life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to… Read more »
You can cite chapter and verse all you want, but the fact remains a judge signed a warrant, it was executed and will certainly occur again. The cops will be let off as they were ‘only doing their jobs’.
“Only doing our jobs” = “Only following orders” – the same defense the Nazi soldiers presented when captured at the concentration camps.
They would be in violation of USC 18-242, and could be sentenced to 10 years in prison. Same goes for whomever conspired to issue the illegal order: 18 USC § 242. Deprivation of rights under color of law The Gist: Anyone who, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, custom or regulation, willfully deprives any person of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, shall be fined, or imprisoned for up to one year, or both. If bodily injury results, or if the violation includes the use or attempted or… Read more »
Wow, Nomad.
That’s a lot of good information.
@brick, IT WAS HIS SISTER, THEY HAD A DISPUTE, AND SHE CALLED THE COPS. I WONDER HOW THAT IDIOT FEELS NOW THAT SHECKILLED HER BROTHER OVER SPITE …
Another DEMORAT PLOY TO IMPLENWNT ERRADICATION OF GUN OWNERSHIP. RED FLAG
I believe the term Qualified Immunity might come to mind here, otherwise known as yet another legislative miscarriage, putting it politely, likely more politely than is deserved. Seems as if there is a lot of important information lacking here though.
My thought is this… if armed, uniformed and recognizable police officers come to your home, hear them out and cooperate with their demands. Once the situation is deemed “safe”, then demand an explanation. If the officers aren’t cooperating, then request a supervisor and demand an explanation. Once explained, if you dont agree, say no more and contact an attorney. The field police officers are between a rock and a wall, what are they supposed to do, refuse a lawful legal order from a supervisor? If it’s an illegal arrest, then you’ve got grounds for legal action. Any misconduct, error in… Read more »
Seizure of guns due to red flag laws are /the same as an arrest. This gun owner was not subject to arrest. As many other said and you either didn’t bother to read or chose to ignore, when dealing with a seizure of property warrant officers should call in advance to talk to the individual not show up in the early morning like you are looking for 1 of America’s Most Wanted.
If you’re going to preach get the crux of the matter right. And without details of what happened your hypothetical assertions are a waste of time and space.
Code is not Law.
Legislation not in harmony with the constitution is void
Wtf
There is most certainly something in what you mention. That said, it strikes me that we still come back to the following. The individual retains basic rights until, based on proven actions, they have demonstrated otherwise. Seems to me that in this case, as well as to many others, such demonstration is conspicuous by it’s absence. As to claims by line police officers that “we were following orders”, that sort of dodge didn’t go very far at the post WW2 war crimes trials. It shouldn’t go very far today either.
Well, we don’t know IF that picture goes with this story…..but using a sledgehammer to knock on one’s door is not a ‘visit by the police where you will get a chance to “hear them out” and be able to cooperate with them.
law abiding citizen, one thing you fail to understand is that with a warrant, there will not be time given for discussion and understanding. You comply or they bust in. Since the officers knew he was armed, and they were there because he was supposedly dangerous, you believe they would be “reasonable” and take time to “discuss” the warrant with him? They saw he was armed and immediately got their buck cheeks puckered, attacked him, then shot him – exactly as those opposed to this law stated would happen. The photo isn’t misleading, it clearly states it is a “file… Read more »
They deserve to be shot and they will be. No, the photo is right on. It depicts the police state and their real mind set. The “rank and file” are very rank and LIKE what they are doing. They get to steal and keep peoples property. There is a click in every cop shop that is the worst of the worst and will do any dirty deed. That is who was on that mans front porch at 5:15 am . A swine with a mission and a killer…a pack of murderers. I have been doing radio for decades. This is… Read more »
A law is not a law if it violates the Constitution of the United States. Just another excuse to dearm the American people, and take us into Socialism/Communism…
Thing about that is too many people impersonating officers to make this applicable. The police should have backed off when he answered the door with a firearm. He is in his own home … If he then becomes threatening towards the officers then they have the right to deadly force. Calmly present the warrant and go from there. This was a breach and clear mission.
Tell that to the jews who were treated the same way by the nazis and ended up in concentration camps.
You are full of it officer or whatever you are. You and you com-padres are violating the highest law of the land. Further more, Just following orders is not a valid excuse anymore than it was for those Nazis tried and shot after the war for war crimes. “All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.” (Marbury vs.Madison, 1803.) Police have no excuse for enforcing whatever they are told and looking at the public as the enemy. You are a liar or deceived,either way it doesn’t matter anymore . You and your cop buddies are the… Read more »
“My thought is this… if armed, uniformed and recognizable police officers come to your home, hear them out and cooperate with their demands. Once the situation is deemed “safe”, then demand an explanation. ” Safe for whom? There are any number of circumstances where I might come to the door of my own home armed, gun in hand. I might not grant entry. I might not acquiesce to their demands. No “tough talk” – just fact.. Every legislator who voted for that law, and the Governor who signed it, should be sued for wrongful death, individually & collectively in their… Read more »
Three words:
Wrong Address Raid.
Our local Sheriff, shortly after Obama’s election, (and subsequent discussions re gun confiscation) made a point of telling all federal law enforcement officers – who trained at the one local gun range. The only gun range in the county. He reminded them that, should they embark on no-knock raids in an effort to confiscate guns, it would behoove them to do so in a more pleasant manner. Reminding them that the same men who belonged to the same gun club they trained at, interacted with, and often were neighbors with, knew where their wives & kids were virtually 24/7. And… Read more »
Seems to me that the sheriff was, if anything, being polite to a fault.
So I have seen nothing mentioned about who reported the victim. Who the hell gave this mans information to the court and why? The individuals who reported should be having a day in court to face the family of the victim.
The man had a legal right as Kavanaugh did to face his accusors. This was a violation of the victims right to due process along with his 2nd amendment right.
It does seem that, absent clear and convincing evidence that the victim was in fact a danger to himself and/or others, the person reporting him as such should be vulnerable to a wrongful-death or wrongful-endangerment suit by the surviving family. If the reporter was a private citizen, there should be no “immunity” theory protecting them.
I think it said someplace that it was his sister. They apparently had a disagreement, she called the police and this was the outcome.
Maybe next time it will be a cop that gets killed
Welcome to Maryland, Police State U.S.A.
I experienced some police brutality first hand when I lived there at the hands of a Baltimore County ‘officer’ who started beating on me because he thought I was somebody else (whom he had it in for). The best police Maryland has are its State Troopers. I never had a bad experience with any of them. The police departments of Baltimore City and the surrounding counties though, do seem to have more than their fair share of individuals on a power trip (and who likely couldn’t get a job doing anything else) who have NO business having deadly authority. I… Read more »
I liked the INTENT of the law to disarm someone who is showing violent intent but I to have a sister in law who has banned me from coming into her home with a gun because she says it is not safe and feels unsafe sad that they show up at 5am to enforce the warrant
WE AS LAWFUL GUN OWNERS TALK ABOUT supporting the Blue line.. why are they not supporting US.
After discovering it was the police, “he put his gun down.” Although, still possibly fatal to have held onto it, EVERYONE should choose to “hold onto it,” and send the absolute clear message that ‘removing our “property,” without due process, is going to get DEADLY, and NOT just on one side!
anti-2a d-rat d-suckers to the rescue
Man im all for our Law Enforcement Officers,but this new practice is wrong,plain wrong!!
whoa this IS wrong!
That is murder,They came into that mans house and murdered him
That’s just not right!
Go watch the mini series “AmeriKa” on youtube. It was NEVER allowed to be rerun anywhere on TV. Not on cable, satellite or network. Then go watch the Russian movie “The Checkist” with subtitles. Get a copy and share. What you see there is what they have planned for here if the leftists finnish what they have started. Organize, arm,equip and train as militia for mutual defense. You will need it. Liberty1775
The 2nd Amendment is but one of 10 Bill of Rights within the Constitution, and its original intent was not just so you could go hunting or protect ones own sss from bad guys, blacks and savage Indians, it was meant to protect the whole Constitution and limit Government Individuals and groups of individuals from within and outside i from abusing the Constitutional powers. Screw the malitia, not since days when peoples malitia was quelled in early days of founding stomped by Feral Armies under Presidential orders has there been any Bill of Rights abuses seen a malita uprising. Seemingly… Read more »
That “law” treasons the 2nd, 4th and 5th amendments of their sworn oaths and is and act of treason under 18 USC 2381 therefore CANNOT BE and NEVER WAS LAW. Norton v. Shelby County, 118 U.S. 425 p. 442 “An unconstitutional act is not law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never been passed.” Gomillion v. Lightfoot, 364 U.S. 155 (1966), cited also in Smith v. Allwright, 321 U.S. 649.644 “Constitutional ‘rights’ would be of little value if they could… Read more »
All perfectly valid points…
doesn’t make that gun owner any less dead however…
We must expect to lose a few to defend our rights. If you are not committed, turn in you guns.
that is without the3e funniest and most ludicrous misunderstanding of the law I have ever read. thank you – I’ll laugh all day over that.
@GDA, Your comment is broad and vague. Just what is it that you disagree with?
AMEN!! (We – and all who agree with us on this forum – are now “on their list.”) There is also a RULE in Volume 17 (page and paragraph numbers for which I have forgotten) of American Jurisprudence (the RULE BOOK for courts, judges and lawyers) that also declares, like Norton v. Shelby County cited above, that a law that is unconstitutional is null and void from its’ inception and that no person can be tried or convicted under it, no court or official can charge, prosecute or convict under it AND that its’ unconstitutionality DOES NOT DEPEND UPON a… Read more »
I found the proper citation (it’s been nearly 25 years since I last saw it, so I beg the pardon of all who read the above comment/reply). The correct reference is American Jurisprudence, 2nd Edition, Vol.16, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256:
It can be found by typing the above into most any search engine.
As you point out, it is not even laws and the intent of laws that rule. It is what a society allows to happen. We allow lawlessness and elect leaders who promote lawlessness, and then we expect the laws to mean something? I understand that the Soviet constitution allowed for freedom of religion. Uh, yeah. Clearly, it is not the words on paper than matter, but the substance of the human spirit. If Americans decide to be submissive wimps, the tyrants won’t need to worry a bit what laws and the Constitution say. (Oh, change that from future to present… Read more »
With a view to the above court findings, how is it that the off nding parties, they being the police, will likely get away, without a hair out of place here?
Thank you James
Warren v. District of Columbia
Police have no obligation to protect
@thenewbreed
Here are THE FACTS :
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-aa-shooting-20181105-story,amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwjY-5ydgcDeAhXL5IMKHW5qB2EQiJQBMAF6BAgJEAc&usg=AOvVaw3n3ATyqzNEkDBOtNryGEa5&cf=1
@mac Koernke, THANK YOU SIR.
Everyone in this forum seems to think the current CIC is a saviour, when in fact it is the total opposite.
NAME ONE PROMISE HE HAS KEPT THAT HAS HELPED THIS COUNTRY AS A WHOLE .
# walkaway jobs vs mobs name one thing that last P.O.S. did to help this country
Named and got approved to constitutionalists for Supreme Court.
That alone is major.
@Nomad, I presume that when you write “… HE…” you mean president Trump. In answer to your question, Trump reduced federal regulations that, in turn, promoted small business growth. The result of that is more small businesses, now, than any other time in American history; more persons employed than any other time in American history; and more jobs than people to fill the jobs. Not enough workers mean that business have to competitively bid for people’s labor. Job choice, raises, signing bonuses, and Christmas bonuses … what is negative about those!
cowardly bullies — maybe some real people are left and will do some ‘paybacks’
karma. . .
We know leftists have ADMITTED to LYING about Judge Kavanaugh. We know SWATting incidents have been resulting in wrongful deaths for years. Who lied about this guy?
This is how the KGB did it come in the early morning and pounce on the unfortunate citizen, the police will go along with any unconstitutional laws .
Seriously. If someone knocked on your door at 5am, who wouldn’t be holding a pistol when answering the door?
Serving a warrant at 5 am, they were acting in a antagonizing manner.
No doubt about that, and Maryland is already a Nazi like state!
I usually stand behind law enforcement, but the way they were acting in this case would be aggravated assault if not perpetrated by LEO’s. It should not be a crime or treated as criminal mischief to simply own or possess a gun. Beaching a home for the sole intent of confiscating weapons when no other crime is present should be a chilling warning.
Are those opposed red flag confiscation the same ones who say “it’s not the gun, it’s the crazy person who uses the gun?” And, doesn’t it then follow that separating a crazy person from a firearm is preferable to restricting law abiding non-crazy people from their firearms?
It is wrong to not be able to confront your accuser. No due process. This Is America and innocent till proven guilty. Notice the accusers of Kavanagh now admit to lying and tried to ruin his life. Wrong.
You forgot the Due Process part.
You are correct….as long as due process is observed in declaring the person crazy…and a single lay person claiming it is so is far from due process.
Sure…but are you crazy? When anyone can make that statement about you, whether true or not, then confiscation becomes a tool of the state in disarming anyone it does not like.
Dusty Storm: As a retired LEO I say you’re trying to conflate two separate issues and, somehow, apply them to this case. It can’t be done. Let’s look at the facts as presented so far: 1. They executed this at 5AM. Why then, one of the most dangerous times of day (early AM hours)? 2. There is no due process under these laws which violates our system of government and should be condemned by all but, unfortunately, in Liberal zeal to “do something” is not. 3. The homeowner, appeared to act in what he thought was self defense of himself… Read more »
Because they always lie.
Anybody who cannot be trusted with a firearm needs a keeper.
Yes but arbitrarily and in secrecy. At no point has a trained mental health expert been part of this process. There ks too much room for abuse and misuse with no checks ans balances.
Dusty, this incident is proof that the gun was the issue – the officers’ guns. The man would have still been alive if the officers weren’t there, didn’t have guns and didn’t shoot him. The outcome of this is not surprising, come to my house at 5am, you should expect to find me armed. They need to sued for wrongful death, including the governor, and the person that reported him needs to be imprisoned for ordering a hit (soliciting murder usually is a first degree murder charge).
That’s too facilie an arguement. You should ask “why be apposed” .
I ask.. who determined this man a “crazy person”? No one did. He underwent nics background checks presumably. To purchase his guns and before his angry sister filed the report hadn’t broken the law . You’re so focused on your desired outcome that you ignore the lack of due process, the summary stripping of rights and juvenile he say she say nature of this law. The sisters guilt must be enormous. Law suits to follow? This law lends itself to emotional, vindictive, misuse..
@DS, No, it does not follow. Your argument presumes “crazy person” without a hearing, evidence, or a defense.
When I read comments on stories that has no facts and may not have even happened to begin with, I actually feel sorry for some of you that comment. You people really should lay off social media for a month or two and let your brains grow a little, it’s destroying some of you. But to play the game for a moment, (making a story up from your opinions because none of you know what happened), let’s consider this; I’m basing this scenario from actual cases by the way. Let’s say boyfriend is at home smoking meth all day, pulls… Read more »
There you go making up a story ( tell a lie ) you know for a fact that that happen unless you are a meth head.
Yes, the facebag is a horrible place. If people would just delete Facepage, Twitter and any of that other junk they would be better off. The stories are manufactured, click bait.
How can you tell when a cop is lying. It is when his mouth is moving. If they are so scared on the job THEN THEY ARE DOING THE WRONG JOB. Time to leave and feel safe somewhere else. The cops love this crap as it is property forfeiture time and they are going either steal it from the property room “evidence disappears from property room” etc…. seen it en force time and time again. BUY more ammo. They are coming and you will need it.
Warren v. District of Columbia
Police have no obligation to protect
It’ll have to get much worse than this for Americans to react to the unconstitutional actions of two bit Politicians. As a whole, we are too comfortable in our homes and leisurely activities to put at risk what we’ve worked so hard to accumulate. One thing is for certain, there is level of unaccountability by Legislators and the Judiciary not seen in modern times. They trample the Constitutional Rights of American Citizens with impugnity and have no fear of reprisal for such because they KNOW they are above the law. They become more brazen in their over reach the longer… Read more »
Expect much more violence and bloodshed than these laws were designed to eliminate. Americans are not going to roll over and let the gov’t just take their weapons, they are going to use them. Hold the idiots who wrote and enacted these laws accountable for the pain and suffering they will cause. The word impeachment comes to mind.
One of the many reasons why I left Maryland almost 6 years ago. The state has gone from a livable one to an oppressive Socialist domain, thanks mainly to Leftist Democrats.
“One of the many reasons why I left Maryland almost 6 years ago. The state has gone from a livable one to an oppressive Socialist domain, thanks entirely to Leftist Democrats.”
There. Fixed it for ya.
Its 1933 all over .
Yeah, when that communist FDR confiscated the gold, pushed the Gun Control Act of 1933-34, and signed the War Powers Act declaring WAR on the American people as a first warring party and as war booty to be controlled by the International Bankers. That dirty SCANK. FDR being a communist shill bent on destroying the Bill Of Rights. Or maybe you meant 1917-1925 and then on for another 70 years of the RED TERROR under COMMUNISM, RIGHT? You are dealing with COMMUNISTS, also known as Soviet Socialists. You know, MASS MURDERERS. Since all of these leftists brag about being communists… Read more »
The most F’ed up thing about these laws (beside being that they actually exist!) is that there are no repercussions if in fact the “red flag” order was substantiated bogus claims. Anyone with a bone to pick or any type of nefarious reason can walk away unscathed after instituting such an action. There need to be serious repercussions against any and all of those who initiate a ‘red flag’ order that is carried out and later found to be based on fraudulent claims. Mandatory jail time and monetary damages just to start. The offender who have to pay for all… Read more »
Absolutely correct. If you make the claims and cause someone to lose their weapons, you should be held responsible if it turns out you were just trying to screw with someone. Perjury is perjury and the consequences should be the same.
Was he really armed when he opened the door, or did the cops plant one of his firearms on him to justify shooting him? Presumably the cops were in sufficient numbers to overpower him rather than to kill him. Who was the threat in this instance?
the fact is we all know how the gun grabbing swine lie and that is why you are asking the right question. When Trump said ” grab the guns , we’ll worry about due process later” he gave them the wink and the nod to kill gun owners. PERIOD> You had all better understand that you must organize to defend yourselves. That is one of the reasons you bought the guns, remember? This the kind of crap that George Herbert Walker Bush did in the late 80’s and early 90’s. ATF and cops were going crazier by the week, month… Read more »
Or, was he naked with painted zebra stripes all over his body? Who was the threat in this instance? Yes, you sound that stupid when you have no facts.
We may have just seen the first shots in a war. Who can say that this guy has not been swatted? or some commicrat neighbor had him murdered by police? It has happened before. I have KNOWN some crooked feds, cops and judges and I have seen for myself crooked politicians using their position to deprive the people of their freedoms instead of guaranteeing them. We have a GOD given right to be armed and this is also guaranteed by the 2nd amendment. Laws saying otherwise are not constitutional and are thus illegal. Depriving the people of their GOD given… Read more »
You are spot on Bill, SPOT ON.
You fucking inbreds love screeching about a deity give you rights, but then you call the cops the moment a black person is at the park BBQing.
Just keep your ass on the plantation you commie fool -it’s Ignorant people like you that don’t realize who the real enemy is -so keep on running that gator and see how you end up in a stinking ass democratic scum city like iBaltimoreMaryland /Baltimore was murder Capital of the world for a long long time -For a good reason -people like you keep up the good work pretty soon you’ll be right in there with Chicago We can only hope
You really are full of it. Do everyone a favor and go to your safe space.