Wyoming Bear Attack Glock had No Round in Chamber, Magazine & Pistol Separated

Wyoming Bear Attack Glock had No Round in Chamber, Magazine & Pistol Separated
Wyoming Bear Attack Glock had No Round in Chamber, Magazine & Pistol Separated

U.S.A. -(Ammoland.com)- On Friday afternoon, the 14th of September, Mark Uptain, a hunting guide, and Corey Chubon, a bow hunter,  were attacked by grizzly bears as they processed an elk carcass. Chubon had mortally wounded the elk with an arrow, the day before, but they had not recovered it before nightfall.

They came back the next day and followed a good blood trail to the dead elk.

They had nearly finished processing it when they were attacked by the grizzly bears. The attack started with a full out charge.  Uptain was hit by the bear first, then Chubon, then the bear went back to Uptain. Chubon fled and survived, getting help.

The investigations have nearly finished, and some questions have been answered.  It was known that Mark Uptain's Glock 20 10 mm semi-automatic pistol was with the hunters' packs. People have wondered why the pistol was in a pack, where it did little good for defense from bears. The Glock 20 was the only firearm at the scene of the attack.

Glock 20 Gen 4
Glock 20 Gen 4

The pistol was not in a pack. Mark Uptain was wearing the Glock in a chest holster. He deliberately took off the pistol, took off his shirt, and placed both the pistol and his shirt near the two packs. Processing big game tends to be a bit messy. From wyofile.com:

Before the two began field dressing the elk, “the guide removed an automatic pistol that he carried in a chest holster as well as his shirt and left them with the two men’s packs a short distance up the hill from the carcass…” OSHA wrote in its fatal alert.

It seems unlikely that Chubon received any training about the Glock 20. When Uptain was attacked, Chubon was able to reach the Glock while the bear was engaged with Uptain.  He was able to extract the pistol from the holster. He had time to shoot. He could not make the pistol fire. From wyofile.com:

The bear hit Uptain as Chubon went for the pistol. “He said he had [the Glock],” Hovinga told WyoFile. “He had a hard time trying to find a clear shot.”

Chubon tried to shoot the bear, Hovinga said. “He grabbed [the pistol], was unable to make it fire,” Hovinga said. “There was not a round in the chamber, so the gun was empty. He couldn’t make the gun work.”

After hitting Uptain, the grizzly quickly turned and bit Chubon in the ankle.

“He swung me around in the air,” Chubon told WKMG Television in Orlando, Florida, near where he lives. That’s when Chubon threw the pistol toward Uptain.

It was “a matter of seconds” during which the bear attacked Uptain, turned on Chubon and then returned to further maul Uptain, Hovinga said.

But the Glock, “it didn’t make to Mark [Uptain],” Hovinga said. “The hunter fled.”

The report confirms speculation I made on September 24th, that there was no round in the chamber.

The Glock pistol and the magazine were found in different places. It may be that Chubon activated the magazine release in an attempt to get the pistol to work.

It is not unknown for someone unfamiliar with a pistol, trying desperately to get it to fire, to press the magazine release while attempting to deactivate a safety.

In a case twelve years ago, a client had great difficulty removing a pistol from his guide's holster.  Similar to this case, the pistol had been hung in a tree a bit away from the carcass, in that case, a moose, the client and guide were processing. The client was finally able to do extract the pistol from the holster. The grizzly bear stopped hunting the guide and came at him. He killed it with the pistol. The bear dropped only three feet from him.

In the Wyoming case, after the bear left Uptain it attacked Chubon. Chubon, unable to make the pistol work, attempted to throw it to Uptain while Chubon was being mauled. It is unknown if Uptain was ever able to reach it.  He had not reached it by the time Chubon fled to get help.

With no round in the chamber and no magazine in the pistol, the Glock was rendered useless, if Mark Uptain ever got to it.

Uptain had bear spray holstered on his hip. Chubon did not recall Uptain using the bear spray to the point where Chubon fled to get help. Uptain emptied the bear spray at some point during the fight. The 250-pound grizzly sow had evidence of bear spray on her. Mark Uptain was killed in spite of the bear spray.

Carrying a semi-automatic pistol with an empty chamber is known as carrying in condition three, terminology used by the renowned gun writer, instructor, and competitor Col. Jeff Cooper.   It is also known as “Israeli Carry”, because it is how Israeli soldiers are trained to carry semi-automatic pistols.

It can work well if the user trains to always load a round from the magazine when the pistol is drawn from the holster.  As a safety feature, if an untrained person accesses the pistol and tries to fire it, they may not know how to load a round into the chamber and can be stymied in their effort to fire the pistol.

This is positive if the person accessing the pistol is an assailant. It does not work if the person accessing the pistol is trying to save your life.

The bears had not found the elk before the hunters did. The attack was an aggressive charge without warning.  People who witness an attack are often able to shoot the bear off of the person being attacked or to kill a bear that is mauling them.  Pistols have been surprisingly effective at stopping attacks.

Bear spray has also been credited with stopping attacks, but the research has been muddied by different criteria being used in bear spray and firearm research papers.  Different criteria were used to select incidents in the bear spray and firearm studies. Comparing the studies is inappropriate. The study authors refuse to release their data.

One problem with bear spray is it does not kill the bear. Most bears that attack humans are eventually killed. Killing them at the scene of their attack prevents further attacks.  Bears that have been sprayed have been known to repeatedly come back.

In the recent Wyoming case where Mark Uptain was killed, both bears were killed by investigators at the scene.


About Dean Weingarten:Dean Weingarten

Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of constitutional carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and recently retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.

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Ron
Ron
1 year ago

Author: Heed the Call-up Comment: ROn, the other 95% of us? And you get that stat from where? Those commenting here are not what you believe to be the “typical” firearm owners. Many of us are active in firearm sports, hunting and politically. As for me, I don’t hunt, but I do hike some, I enjoy shooting, and I am active politically. Knowing about the wildlife I might encounter on my hikes and what to do in those situations is important. I also try to avoid active bear areas – not something I ever want to experience. I always carry… Read more »

Heed the Call-up
Heed the Call-up
1 year ago
Reply to  Ron

Ron, where in that post did I critique the man that died? Not doing so does not make me “AMRCHAIR heed” (sic). You clearly are an idiot, but we have tried to educate you.

Ron
Ron
1 year ago

Author: Steven S.Baum
Comment:
Still have NO idea where you get that 95% from ?.
As I see it the “95%” of us that are on here actually go OVERBOARD when it comes to the carry of force,in the woods or anywhere else.
That accounts for why we are here !.
The best we can take from this death is,do not learn the hard way.
Experience is a very unforgiving teacher,that few ever get to repeat an error from.

You are either full of BS.. or full of BS. You are full of BS. (you know it ) Jungle Jim.

Steven s.baum
Steven s.baum
1 year ago
Reply to  Ron

I am to gather that your calling me a B.S. artist
I am sure your an honest and decent man,who is just having a brain fart of a day.
It’s not nice,or polite,or logical to call out anyone just due to a lack of actual fact.
Live long,and prosper.

Heed the Call-up
Heed the Call-up
1 year ago
Reply to  Ron

Ron, if you were a regular reader of this site, you would see what most posters state in regard to hunting, shooting, carrying, etc., and understand that most that post here do participate in those activities and are politically active – that is not BS, but a fact, and what he stated is true.

Ron
Ron
1 year ago

Author: Steven S.Baum
Comment:
Sadly us “armchair QB’s” are not going away.
Some of us actually go to the ‘wild places’ and we practice what we preach !.
If you and some of the others have actually done what you say, I guess that doesn’t make ya’s armchair know it all’s, now does it? That’s good. But the other 95%…………

Heed the Call-up
Heed the Call-up
1 year ago
Reply to  Ron

ROn, the other 95% of us? And you get that stat from where? Those commenting here are not what you believe to be the “typical” firearm owners. Many of us are active in firearm sports, hunting and politically. As for me, I don’t hunt, but I do hike some, I enjoy shooting, and I am active politically. Knowing about the wildlife I might encounter on my hikes and what to do in those situations is important. I also try to avoid active bear areas – not something I ever want to experience. I always carry with a chambered round. My… Read more »

Steven S.Baum
Steven S.Baum
1 year ago
Reply to  Ron

Still have NO idea where you get that 95% from ?.
As I see it the “95%” of us that are on here actually go OVERBOARD when it comes to the carry of force,in the woods or anywhere else.
That accounts for why we are here !.
The best we can take from this death is,do not learn the hard way.
Experience is a very unforgiving teacher,that few ever get to repeat an error from.

Jim Macklin
Jim Macklin
1 year ago
Reply to  Ron

90% of all statistics are made up, just like this one. A GLOCK is not harmed in the slightest if covered in blood. Blood washes off. If you “must” take your jacket and shirt off, put the fully loaded gun back in the holster and the holster back on your body. Arrows do not have “stopping power” so a powerful handgun is a good or even better, a powerful rifle, such as a 45/70 or a 338 Winchester Magnum or 375 H*H. If your state is so stupid the don’t trust a hunter to carry a self-defesne back and a… Read more »

Jim Macklin
Jim Macklin
1 year ago

Huh? “Author: harv Comment: the whole article is back and forth,, 1-poorly written, 2 seems to be several theorys as to the tomeline of the attacl,,, 3 i was always taught not to keep a round in the chamber, for safety,, but i dont understand how it weould fire ?? when i pull the hammer back on my .45 it puts a round in the chamber,, many questions here,, ,” A revolver with chambers loaded properly will rotate a chamber into line with the barrel. A auto-pistol with a hammer is not connected between te slide and hammer. You can… Read more »

Wyoming Guide
Wyoming Guide
1 year ago

As a Wyoming guide I feel like I need to bring a little bit of reality to the situation here. I tried to post these comments earlier and I don’t know what happened to them. I don’t usually post comments, I’m getting weary of reading all these comments from keyboard commandos. 1. Most clients are city slickers, people that are proficient in the backwoods don’t usually hire a guide. I’m scared to death of a client with a loaded firearm, I figure I’m more likely to get shot accidentally by a client then get killed by a bear. 2. You… Read more »

Tim
Tim
1 year ago
Reply to  Wyoming Guide

I have guided many hunters in my 40 years of adult life and the one thing I would never do is call them names in a public forum. But then again, a hillbilly wouldn’t know not to do that because he probably didn’t finish high school.
BTW, your comments are right where you left them, rookie.

Steven S.Baum
Steven S.Baum
1 year ago
Reply to  Wyoming Guide

Sadly us “armchair QB’s” are not going away. Some of us actually go to the ‘wild places’ and we practice what we preach !. And that guide would be alive [ at least possibly ] if he had practice situational awareness. Just as important in the wilds [ if not morso ] than in the general public areas we like to call ‘civilized’. There is no way I would trust my life to ANYONE that is not practiced with a gun. Fact is that guide did exactly that,with a horrific outcome. And I dare say that at least now,so many… Read more »

Dave Smith
Dave Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Wyoming Guide

So, if you were in the exact same situation as Uptain, would you have bear spray on you (Uptain’s choice), or a handgun? Revolver or semi-auto? FYI, bears on Kodiak Island regard gun shots as dinner bells.

Jim Macklin
Jim Macklin
1 year ago

Predators are making comebacks in all states. Alaska has big bears, but even “little bears” have big teeth and claws.
In Maine, Washington, Oregon. Wyoming and Colorado children playing in fenced backyards are at risk.
Hikers and cyclists have been killed at at least partially eaten.
Wild animals don’t know that humans should not be eaten because years of protected predators has erased any fear.

Dave Smith
Dave Smith
1 year ago

Many useful comments here, but if you go to the link for the original article at wyofile, this was a “workplace accident,” and do you know what OSHA recommended to prevent future accidents: Better bear spray training for commercial hunting outfitters. OSHA has the full support of the Wyoming Game & Fish Department. These agencies are happy to sacrifice hunters in order to save grizzlies.

Ron
Ron
1 year ago

Author: Rick
Comment:
I’m a dual citizen with two passports.

When it comes down to Israel or America……’which’ will YOU choose?

Scott Bryant
Scott Bryant
1 year ago

So sad!
It would seem to me the guide should require his customers to have some handgun proficiency.
Why would a hunter not make himself aware of the dangers of bow hunting for elk in grizzly country?
Too many questions.

Ron
Ron
1 year ago

Author: Rick
Comment:
I live in Israel, but I’m from the U.S
Pretty good post Rick, But out’a curiosity, What is your citizenship, U.S…Israeli…..or ‘both?

Rick
Rick
1 year ago
Reply to  Ron

I’m a dual citizen with two passports.

William Slater
William Slater
1 year ago

Carrying without a round in the chamber and you may as well leave your sidearm at home ….. I’ve carried cocked and locked my entire life about 45 years without incident …. When things get hot and heavy it’s one less thing to have to think about !! When you need it …. you need it ready !

Paul Richardson
Paul Richardson
1 year ago

Bad decisions can be very costly!

Todd Allen
Todd Allen
1 year ago

Most of the comments I ha e read are a disgrace and ignorant. What a bunch of dicks.

Dan Schwager
Dan Schwager
1 year ago

Thats why I like pistols with hammer’s or wheel gun’s keep round loaded hammer down the all yo have to do is pull hammer down then pull trigger. Also it would be wise to show your partner on how use your weapon.

Ron White,Sr
Ron White,Sr
1 year ago
Reply to  Dan Schwager

I used to think wheel gun was best choice until shot a Glock. A Glock 20 or Glock 40 10MM is a great choice ,but keep a round in the chamber and your weapon on you no matter what! You never know where a threat might come ! Prayers for this young guides family and friends! Stay safe out there!

Idadho
Idadho
1 year ago

Dean, Please submit your column to an editor before you post it to be published. You wander all over the place. It’s like trying to piece a puzzle together. You get mixed between your opinion, analysis, advice, and the facts at hand. Your paragraph formatting separates comments that need to stay in context. When writing about life and death situations, the victims deserve better. Regarding the event, It is odd that the guide used a chest holster to have the Glock at the ready but does not chamber a round. A Glock can easily be carried with a round in… Read more »

Mason
Mason
1 year ago
Reply to  Idadho

This. He also waits until the end of the article to inform you that the second man was killed by the bear. Extremely poor writing

TomC
TomC
1 year ago
Reply to  Mason

The real shame is that this is better than average writing for any of the firearms blog websites

Janey
Janey
1 year ago
Reply to  Mason

2nd guy was the client and he got to go back home to his family in Florida!! He ran !

harv
harv
1 year ago
Reply to  Mason

the whole article is back and forth,,
1-poorly written,
2 seems to be several theorys as to the tomeline of the attacl,,,
3 i was always taught not to keep a round in the chamber, for safety,, but i dont
understand how it weould fire ?? when i pull the hammer back on my .45 it puts a round in the chamber,,
many questions here,, ,

Douglas Kuykendall
Douglas Kuykendall
1 year ago

I have some friends who decided to use a hunting guide In Wyoming.The guide wanted them to have the chamber empty.Cost one of them an elk because saw elk pulled up to shoot gun went click. After that they told the guide to pound sand up his ass.Point being the pistol should have had a round chambers.There wouldn’t have been know problem.Then you could ask why did he take off the weapon an Where was the hunters weapon.There are lessons to be learned from this an I would hope people would take it to heart.Always have your weapons with you… Read more »

Aaron
Aaron
1 year ago

I am a guide in wy. Your buddies are asshats. They blame the guide for their dumb asses not knowing then needed to chamber a round in their rifle…. sounds like they need a little schooling in how to handle a rifle.

Douglas Kuykendall
Douglas Kuykendall
1 year ago
Reply to  Aaron

Yea i think that is what they probably was thinking about that guide. When you are used to hunting with the chamber loaded, it’s real easy to pull up an go click.

Aaron M Mccalla
Aaron M Mccalla
1 year ago

You mean when your a dumb ass like your buddies uts really easy to forget if you do or if you don’t have a round in the chamber. Your buddies are dumb asses for not knowing the condition of their rifles. Also if they fired their guide then the guide made out with the full price of the hunt and didn’t have to work for it…. sounds like the guide won this one. He got their money and didn’t get shot by some dumb ass

Captain Bob
Captain Bob
1 year ago

I truly believe that, unless you extensively train with clearing all the different kinds of semi-auto pistol jams, you are better off with a revolver. “Murphy’s Law” will cause a jam just when you need a second shot and, in a near panic situation, you have to be able to get that gun functional again in an instant and the average person won’t be able to do that. Don’t scoff at this unless you have actually been in a life-or-death situation and experienced what happens with a huge adrenaline rush. Not easy (most people believe they will calmly do what… Read more »

Captain Bob
Captain Bob
1 year ago

Totally different situation. Immediate response to a deadly threat; have a round chambered. Stalking game on a hunt; safer to NOT have a round chambered and you have plenty of time to do so before making that deliberate and careful shot. I agree with the guide.

Don
Don
1 year ago

It’s people LIKE YOU Doug, are the reason we (guides) won’t let you chamber a round, UNTIL YOU ARE ABOUT TO SHOOT!!! Most hunters are TOO DANGEROUS and FOOLHARDY, for us Outfitters and guides to allow you to carry your weapon WITH A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER!! I can’t COUNT the number of times ( in my 50 years outfitting and guiding) a Round Went Off unexpectedly from a Guided Hunters’ weapon!!

Douglas Kuykendall
Douglas Kuykendall
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Well Don, in my 52 years of hunting,20 plus in Montana an Idaho never had an accident.Reckon you should get to know who you are hunting with.As for the freinds who got the guide, it was not that they needed him, Wyoming law says you have to have a guide or resident to hunt in the wilderness.Now you can fish,hike,ride a damn bike,predator hunt or shit in the middle without a guide, but to hunt big game, just for the outfitters you got to have one.They have hunted in the Pinedale area for years.So no need to get in a… Read more »

Rick
Rick
1 year ago

I live in Israel, but I’m from the U.S. I’ve carried a 1911 style Colt .45 my whole life (I’m 72). I carry cocked and locked but ALWAYS concealed. The few times that someone got a glimpse of my handgun they ALWAYS berated me for having a round in the chamber and cocked and locked. At times on the range I will holster my sidearm cocked and locked and get a ration of shit from others on the range who tell me that they can draw and fire as fast as I can without a round in the chamber. At… Read more »

Jim Yancy
Jim Yancy
1 year ago
Reply to  Rick

I agree with you. My 1911A1 has never failed in any environment. Just got a Sig P220 to try out. Germaine to this tragic death. My folks taught us young to NEVER go unarmed in the big woods.

Jo Ann
Jo Ann
1 year ago

Re:CA law on bow hunting while carrying sidearm.
NOT legal while deer hunting/bear hunting during the ARCHERY ONLY season. Otherwise, can do. Stupid
law? I suppose a case was made for it, but according to many posts on calguns.com, a lot of bow hunters ignore it.

Chris
Chris
1 year ago
Reply to  Jo Ann

It’s legal in Missouri.

Dim Witte
Dim Witte
1 year ago

In Alaska, and I suppose elsewhere, advice sometimes is that, unless you have a bear tag, you should just let the bear have the game. But if you can say you’re defending yourself, you have a decent case in court. Good chance that a warden will investigate, deduce evidence, and try to bring a court case against you; possible result is loss of hunting equipment and stiff fine; plus you are required to cape out the skin and head and deliver to F & G. This happened in case of man at his house defend his children at play against… Read more »

raven
raven
1 year ago

Lots of questions here- leaving out the lack of a chambered round, did the magazine come out because of conscious action, IE, a untrained person thinking it was a safety of some kind, or did it get released inadvertently, leaving him with an empty gun? Glocks have a plastic catch engaging a plastic magazine- it is a very soft and soapy easy release. IMO, the relentless promotion of fast magazine changes in the gun media and among competition shooters has done a disservice- one is far more likely to need a second shot , than to need a 16th shot… Read more »

Mike
Mike
1 year ago
Reply to  raven

Duct tape, Glocks and reloads! I live, hunt and work in Grizzly country. A trick fix I used back in the day when on a Elk hunt in Grizzly country was a duct tape fix. Why? My nylon holster rubbed my Glock pistol wrong and released my magazine for me, lossed on some montana mountain forever. Thats not good. One shot and be chewed on till death. I have volunteerd in both the US army and the Israeli Army. So im famiar with different opinions on carry condition. I believe carrying hot and being responsible and fully aware. Back to… Read more »

Dan Hamilton
Dan Hamilton
1 year ago

A Guide that didn’t believe that there were bears or that the bears would bother them.
How is it possible for a guide to be that stupid? Taking a gun off and not having a round in the chamber of a Glock, in Grizz country?

keith
keith
1 year ago
Reply to  Dan Hamilton

And the Darwin Award goes to,,,,,,,

SuperG
SuperG
1 year ago

My condolences to the man’s family. It was a horrible way to die, and I would not want to have to identify the body. I would never let my guard down in bear country. The animals are aggressive and can charge at 30 MPH. I always thought they were solitary, and to hear that there were two attacking at once, is more then chilling.

Jack
Jack
1 year ago

Jim is correct, There are a batch of yo-yo’s teaching this insane technique–try Googling Israeli shooting method and you will see.

Scott Barr
Scott Barr
1 year ago

Comment above about ‘weapons discipline’ is so true and applies in this scenario. When I was in the Marines, you’d get your ass handed to you if your weapon was farther than arm’s length from you.. FACT.

Mike
Mike
1 year ago
Reply to  Scott Barr

Hay you, do PUSH-UPS!!!

Steven S.Baum
Steven S.Baum
1 year ago

Sorry but in ANY bear country the need is for a RIFLE or SHOTGUN and a dedicated overwatch of the dressing of the game.
It was a horrible end to a man that really should have known and PRACTICED better.
And he had a hunter that was not ready to help with the overwatch,so he should have made other arrangements [ another guide or friend ].
But that Glock 20 is NOT to blame in the least.

Greg
Greg
1 year ago
Reply to  Steven S.Baum

Hard (and likely illegal) to do during bow season.

LL
LL
1 year ago
Reply to  Greg

Aah, but pistols are allowed for self defense purposes only, during bow season. Any idiot that carries a Glock unchambered, will spend the rest of his life racking a slide(if he/she knows how).

Wyo307
Wyo307
1 year ago
Reply to  Greg

Not illegal in wyoming

DAN III
DAN III
1 year ago
Reply to  Greg

Greg,

Aaaah, the “law”. Most likely you are the type of fool who sits at a red light at 0200, with no traffic, waiting on an inanimate object to give you permission, a green light, to proceed.

Better to be tried by twelve (or eight) then to be carried by six.

Kenneth
Kenneth
1 year ago

Yet another reason why revolvers are better. Simpler means easier for a newbie to figure out. Because there’s nothing to figure out. point it and pull the trigger and it goes boom. The state of a safety, or of the striker, or the magazine, or the chamber… just don’t matter. Point and pull. How much easier is it possible to get?

Raptor
Raptor
1 year ago

Poor planning , or lack of training often results in catastrophic results. Then it is time for the “ could of, should of,” comments. Any gun carried without a round in the chamber, with an unfamiliar operator is just extra weight. The time to learn is not in the 8 seconds of terror.

Jackson
Jackson
1 year ago

Natural selection…at work.

Jim Macklin
Jim Macklin
1 year ago

The bears were just defending their next meal. The found the elk and took possession. In bear counrty somebody needs to stand guard.

Rich Vail
Rich Vail
1 year ago

This was VERY stupid. NEVER go unarmed into the woods unless you have the desire to become dinner.

Bill F. Stone
Bill F. Stone
1 year ago
Reply to  Rich Vail

AS A CANADIAN BEAR GUIDE ONCE SAID, ” SOMETIMES, WHEN YOU BREW A CUP OF TEA, YOU HAVE TO DRINK IT”!

Pete
Pete
1 year ago

If it was a Glock, there was no manual safety to release.

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago
Reply to  Pete

Someone unfamiliar with firearms probably wouldn’t know that, and assumed a safety was on because it didn’t fire.

Jim Macklin
Jim Macklin
1 year ago
Reply to  Pete

An untrained user. Likely a big box store sales weenie told him that a GLOCK was a good bear gun.
No other training given.
Only one man carrying anything.
Stipid to not take some time to learn that a GLOCK is designed to be carried loaded, that unless the gun is jammed dropping the magazine is not part of the drill.

THE PENALTY FOR STUPIDITY AND IGNORANCE IS OFTEN DEATH.

Justista
Justista
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Macklin

Who goes about in big bear country with out a round in the chamber?
Even Barney Fife put his bullet in when he thought there might be evil afoot.

RKBA
RKBA
1 year ago
Reply to  Pete

But the bow hunter probably didn’t know that. The author speculated that the hunter pressed the mag release while trying to disengage a safety. Imagine the bow hunter, being unfamiliar with guns, pressed the trigger and nothing happened. His first thought, based on Hollywood, would be “I must need to disengage the safety. Where is it?” When he presses the button, the mag pops out just a little and he may or may not have noticed. He decides to throw the pistol to the guide, (my own speculation following) and in flight the mag falls out completely thanks to the… Read more »

Mason
Mason
1 year ago
Reply to  RKBA

c e n t r i p e t a l

durabo
durabo
1 year ago

Brits would call this “death by misadventure,” which bridges suicide and an accident. A perfect example would be to be struck by a bolt of lightning fishing in open waters during an electric storm: not quite an accident, and not quite suicide.

Harry in Ohio
Harry in Ohio
1 year ago

Let everyone learn from this and never make this sad mistake whether in bear country or not. If you are afraid to carry a loaded firearm, stay home.

1776 Patriot
1776 Patriot
1 year ago
Reply to  Harry in Ohio

I like my Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull. Lots of ammo choices, depending on your application and needs, and no complicated manual of arms. Just point and shoot.

RegT
RegT
1 year ago
Reply to  1776 Patriot

Centrifugal, not centripetal. Centripetal is gravity, centrifugal is the tendency of an object to move _away_ from the center of a spinning object, like the contents of a test tube in a laboratory centrifuge.

John
John
1 year ago
Reply to  Harry in Ohio

Or Super Walmart after 22:00. For the same reason.

C J
C J
1 year ago

He should have carrying a big bore revolver. Point and click, bam. It wouldn’t have been the “modern” choice, it wouldn’t have been the “sexy” choice, it would have been the right choice. The guide may have been mauled, but chances are, he’d still be alive.

John Williamson
John Williamson
1 year ago
Reply to  C J

My thoughts exactly! Why do they call those big caliber revolvers, the Alaska. My guide in Alaska carried long barrel ,44 Magnum and he still said let th9e grizzly have the first fish! Me what grizzly? Guide, the one clambering out the bushes to get the salmon. Wasn’t to frightened, used to firearms and guide had it out while grizzly stole my salmon. I CONCUR NOT A SEXY WEAPON BUT A DAMN GOOD WORKHOUSE. point and shoot! Sad the guy died

WY guide
WY guide
1 year ago
Reply to  C J

I’m a Wyoming guide. Just want to bring some reality to many of these ‘keyboard commandoes.’ 1.as a guide your clients are usually city slickers. Proficient hunters/outdoorsmen don’t usually need a guide. You’d be more likely to get shot by accident by a city slicker with a handgun, than eaten by a bear. 2. Unless you’ve tracked miles in this incredibly rugged Teton Wilderness area, Turpin Meadows, you’d never carry a heavy Alaskan wheel gun. Those are for planes and trucks. Good intentions fall away quickly in this country. I’ve had clients want to just leave their gear/packs behind because… Read more »

Dave Smith
Dave Smith
1 year ago

Bear spray advocates focus on the overall performance of bear spray, which included incidents when wildlife professionals (with armed backup) used bear spray to haze curious, habituated bears in national park–but a 1999 study on the Field Use Of Capsicum Spray As A Bear Deterrent said, “One caution regarding generalizing our results is that in the 1 instance when capsicum spray was known to have been used on an adult female grizzly with cubs that charged from a nearby ungulate carcass, injury to the sprayer resulted. For certain individual brown bears, the spray may not be effective if the bear… Read more »

mike polito
mike polito
1 year ago
Reply to  Dave Smith

Yep, great analogy Dave. I hunt in Cougar, Grizzly and Brown bear country and carry my 50 cal S&W wheel gun. I am not afraid to use it if I feel threatened or my partner is threatened. Our lives are more valuable than forfeiting guns and gear, hunting license privileges, steep fines, lawyer fees etc. Total BS. If someone breaks into my home, I would not hesitate to shoot to kill. Same goes for bears in my book. Thanks for the good post.

pjw
pjw
1 year ago

The guides motivation to not get gore on his pistol, unfortunately seems to be a fatal one.

Dave Smith
Dave Smith
1 year ago

Looking back with 20/20 hindsight, the guide should have been carrying the Glock, and his client should have had the bear spray. Once you start field dressing an elk, the scent is broadcast on the wind, so the client should have been paying extra attention downwind while the guide worked on the elk.

wGraves
wGraves
1 year ago

Which is why the H&K P7 is such a valuable weapon. Because of the cocking lever, it can be safely carried with a chambered round.

Joey Nichols
Joey Nichols
1 year ago
Reply to  wGraves

As can a properly functioning Glock

Mason
Mason
1 year ago
Reply to  Joey Nichols

As can a whole host of modern semi auto pistols

Heed the Call-up
Heed the Call-up
1 year ago
Reply to  wGraves

As can most other modern firearms. I like Beretta PX4 Storm, it is DA/SA and has a decocker. I have it in a 9 mm sub-compact and a full-frame .45 ACP – same manual of arms. Since getting the .45 about a year ago, it has become my EDC CC firearm. A good cover garment hides everything, and I always do the wife test on new clothing choices. If she can’t tell, no one can.

Alec Rawls
Alec Rawls
1 year ago

How about a full coverage neoprene chest rig that is easy to rinse off after dressing game? Seems like the very worst time to set aside the gun you brought along just for this possibility.

Greg
Greg
1 year ago

That’s why I carry a S&W revolver in .41 mag.

Paul
Paul
1 year ago

If it had been a simple .44 Magnum, like a S&W 629, that bear would have been DEAD. Even a plain 240 gr. Soft Point load at 10 ft range.

Simplicity folks. A simple six shot heavy revolver will do quite fine. Don’t spend your time worrying about the 10th or 15 shot. Worry about the first one.

Susan Harms
Susan Harms
1 year ago

an unloaded gun is a club.

Firewagon
Firewagon
1 year ago
Reply to  Susan Harms

And, definitely not LARGE enough for ANY bear!

Craig
Craig
1 year ago
Reply to  Susan Harms

And not an effective one at that!

Geo
Geo
1 year ago

Colonel Cooper used the term “weapons discipline” to describe soldiers who didn’t allow themselves to be separated from their guns. The best firearm in the world is of no use to you if you can’t instantly get on target with it. The guide separated himself from his weapon, and was killed. Always keep your weapon within reach.

Rich
Rich
1 year ago
Reply to  Geo

Well said Geo. That’s all.

SDN
SDN
1 year ago

Which is why the bear hunters I know tend to carry 44 Magnum or .500 magnum DA revolvers. S&W makes a good one. With a DA revolver, you point it and start pulling the trigger. It goes bang.

Ron
Ron
1 year ago
Reply to  SDN

Most correct SDN A revolver is the best. Elmer Keith would attest to that.

TomC
TomC
1 year ago
Reply to  Ron

A revolver would have been just as useless is the idiots had unloaded it and put it out of reach to avoid all that labor of maybe needing to clean it later.

There were numerous tactical and ethical mistakes that led to the death of an incompetent hunting guide. And, yes, I said the guide was incompetent because a competent hunting guide wouldn’t have made those mistakes and wouldn’t have allowed his client to make the mistakes he did — apparently starting with a dubious bowshot at an elk too late in the day when he fatally wounded the elk.

Newell Anderson
Newell Anderson
1 year ago
Reply to  SDN

I say works like an old time cap gun!!
On my Alaska trip, we rented a 4 wheel drive Pick up camper & boon docked for a month!! I kept a 6” 29 smith, on me are within arms reach for 4 weeks. What a pain in the ass! Started to hate the gun before the trip was over!! Next time I’ll buy a 4” gun!!

Banjo Willy
Banjo Willy
1 year ago

In libtard CA it is illegal to carry any gun at all period, while bow hunting. Good thing there are no bears in CA. /sarcasm

Vlad
Vlad
1 year ago
Reply to  Banjo Willy

Maybe in CA, the point is to put bow hunters in danger with the hopes of getting them killed. They hate hunters and meat-eaters in CA anyway, don’t they?

Jo Ann
Jo Ann
1 year ago
Reply to  Banjo Willy

Willy, I’ll check further but I believe a fairly recent change allows CA bow hunters to carry a sidearm.

Jjmucdr
Jjmucdr
1 year ago

Train often, train seriously.

Victor
Victor
1 year ago

That’s why one always should not only carry bear mace, but also a gun to absolutely kill the bear in case of attack. It doesn’t matter that it was momma bear with cubs around, it doesn’t matter that it’s a male fresh out of hibernation looking for a snack, any wild animal that attacks humans has to be killed lest it survives the encounter and develops a habit for human meat.

Mark
Mark
1 year ago

Stupid stupid and stupid. Any other comments worthwhile?

PS`
PS`
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark

I feeling the same way.

Roy D.
Roy D.
1 year ago

This further information just reinforces my characterization of the bow hunter stated when this story was first discussed here. For those deriding the lack of a round in the chamber do you think things would have worked out differently if: It had been a 1911 10mm with the safety engaged? It had been a S&W 10mm with the safety engaged? A Witness 10mm with the safety engaged? The bottom line is you had someone who was not familiar with the gun involved because he is not a shooter. Perhaps he is a felon and can possess a bow but not… Read more »

Mason
Mason
1 year ago
Reply to  Roy D.

But it wasn’t any of those pistols, and the man is now dead solely because he didn’t carry loaded

Jim
Jim
1 year ago

This is precisely why the idiotic so called Israeli Shooting Technique taught by some big bucks guys in our country is so stupid! It lives on. For self defense it is a disaster as it requires one to draw, then hopefully get a good grasp on the slide, then successfully chamber a round and then begin the fight–if they remember and do not screw up. Problem is under life and death pressure you may miss the slide (if you remember in the first place), you may fail to jack a round in or it may not pull it all the… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Which “big bucks guys” teach Israeli carry? The only fool I know who teaches that is the worst firearms instructor in the nation.

Matthew Carberry
Matthew Carberry
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

One explanation I’ve heard for the “Israeli method” was early lack of military pistol standardization. Rather than teach how to operate different guns with different controls that might be issued at need, they’d teach to leave them all in Cond 3 as rack will then make all of them ready to fire.

If true, there’s no justification for teaching that “make-do” technique in to an individual gun owner. They should learn/be trained how to operate their particular gun.

Jeff Friedberg
Jeff Friedberg
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

If you are already wounded in the good hand, you may not even be able to rack the slide.

Carry HOT! Carry BIG.

The bear is not your friend.