New York Court Order Concludes Gun Permit Insufficient Cause for Car Search

Imagine this is what you see in the rearview mirror.
Imagine this is what you see in the rearview mirror.

U.S.A. – -(Ammoland.com)- An out of state concealed carry permit does not establish sufficient cause to warrant a car search for firearms, a New York judge’s Decision and Order decided Wednesday. Further, the opinion concludes the sworn testimony of the officers involved is not borne out by police video camera and microphone evidence, and a recording from a defendant’s cell phone.

“The Court does not find that the search of the Defendant's car was justified in any manner and accordingly grants the Defendant's motion and suppresses any evidence obtained from the search of the Defendant's car,” George E. Fufidio, Judge of the Westchester County Court wrote. That’s a significant opinion benefiting not just the defendant in the case of THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK -against- JONATHAN ROSE, Defendant, but for gun owners who find themselves in a similar situation.

Rose was charged with “class C violent felonies of Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Second Degree (two counts), Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Third Degree (three counts), Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree (four counts) and a violation of New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law Section 402.”

“It is alleged that the defendant possessed two loaded and operable semi-automatic pistols, three large capacity ammunition feeding devices, and various Kung Fu stars and metal knuckles,” the court document recounts. “These items were found pursuant to a search of the defendant's motor vehicle by the Rye City Police after a traffic stop on May 5, 2017.

The search resulted after Rose, who had recently moved to New York, “inadvertently” handed over “a valid Grand County Colorado concealed handgun permit” along with “a valid Colorado driver's license [and] a valid New York identification card” while looking for his vehicle registration after being pulled over for a missing front license plate.

That this is even an issue highlights the need for reciprocity, something principled die-hards are still pushing for while Swamp Republicans do their best to let it (along with dangled but never pushed for hearing protection) die. They (intentionally) blew their chance when they had the power, and once the Democrats take over the House, watch the Establishment GOP join in giving them a “red flag” victory, instead.

Per the opinion, the officer “asked the Defendant if he had a gun in the car [and] the Defendant said that he did not…”

That makes it look like Rose was lying. But that conclusion is not borne out by a transcript of the exchange:

An important distinction needs to be made here: Since no gun was found in the “pat down,” Rose gave a truthful answer. He did not have a handgun on him.

Statements that don’t line up with the truth are the ones coloring the charges against Rose. It’s surprising Judge Fufidio missed this point, but it appears the disinformation came from Westchester County Assistant District Attorney Kevin Jones, who in his Affirmation in Opposition to Rose’s motions asserted:

“The officer then asked the defendant if he had any guns in the car…”

Since Jones had all recordings, transcripts, and reports, as well as access to officers both in and out of court, it is difficult to imagine a reason he would misrepresent what happened and not conclude his allegations were deliberate and calculated.

In addition to a prosecutor apparently playing fast and loose, we see sworn statements by officers that are contradicted by video and audio evidence. Regardless of how one feels about guns, these deviations from the whole truth ought to result in unified agreement that this is intolerable and incompatible with rule of law.

What’s to be done about that?

It will be interesting to see what happens next in this case now that a judge has ruled that evidence obtained from the car search must be suppressed. Perhaps Second Amendment groups have been keeping their distance because of the “on you” misinterpretation. If so, that’s too bad because the judge’s opinion can profoundly affect their members. It's in their interest to help, and the following character reference ought to help persuade them not to be put off by official misrepresentations coming out of New York:

REVISION UPDATE: Testimonial letter removed at request of Grand County Sheriff.

 

In any case, Rose has established a Go Fund Me page to help with legal expenses against a state that has unlimited resources — and his page includes a communication link for those wanting to reach out to him and find out more.

It’s important that more gun owners find out about this case and use what influence they can to solicit financial support from Second Amendment groups. That’s especially true since Rose tells me “the District Attorney's office has said they will appeal the ruling.”

As a side note, if you haven’t done so, carve out the time to watch Law Professor James Duane’s “Don’t Talk to the Police” lecture. The other thing to do is get a copy of the ACLU’s “Bust Card.” Yes, in spite of their collectivist bent, they nonetheless provide very useful information should you find yourself being confronted by law enforcement.


About David Codrea:David Codrea

David Codrea is the winner of multiple journalist awards for investigating / defending the RKBA and a long-time gun owner rights advocate who defiantly challenges the folly of citizen disarmament. He blogs at “The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance,” and posts on Twitter: @dcodrea and Facebook.

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jack burtonRonHeed the Call-upTheHolyCrowMoses Lambert Recent comment authors
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Moses Lambert
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Moses Lambert

What Happens When You Try to File a Complaint Against a Police Officer in Florida

Heed the Call-up
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Heed the Call-up

Moses, wow, that was some amazingly, shocking footage. Those officers were way out of line. I also noticed that some of the footage was more than several years old. So, I wonder how frequent this actually occurs, percentage-wise. I am not condoning the behavior, but considering how many officers there are in the USA, it would not be surprising that there are “a few bad apples”. I have had friends that became officers, officers that I was friends with, and a relative that was a LEO. Also, the handful of times I interacted with officers in their official capacities, a… Read more »

Ron
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Ron

Author: Ron
Comment:
The ay i read the officers statement tells me he knew the man had a permit to carry a firearm so he mislead the drivers as to whether he had a gun in the car etc.

I do believe there are two ‘Ron’s’ on this forum. Didn’t know there could be more than one call sign. The above is not me,the one who seems to get in arguments etc. Ron

TheHolyCrow
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TheHolyCrow

I think there are 2 also. That would explain what happened a week or two ago. I must have been responding to the other Ron, and that made you think I was responding to you. Maybe you should go by Ron1, and the other Ron, Ron2.

Ron
Guest
Ron

There are two. But he could come up with something and claim to be #1…….
Gotta wait and see I guess.

Ron
Guest
Ron

The ay i read the officers statement tells me he knew the man had a permit to carry a firearm so he mislead the drivers as to whether he had a gun in the car then on his person by probably using his voice to make the person give a misleading answer.

Titaniumman
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Titaniumman

If i were the judge, i would have had the officers that perjured themselves arrested on the spot and charged them both with felony obstruction of justice.

Anthony
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Anthony

The DA’s office did not lie about anything and neither did the officers. The author of this article is completely uninformed about the facts of the case.

RobW
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RobW

Or could you be the one uninformed? I actually read a few other articles that said the same, as well as this man’s account on his go fund me account, as well as a letter from his former Colorado sheriff, who he worked closely with on a search and rescue team. I am also from NY originally and have watched them become a socialist hellhole from a distance. I am much more inclined to believe his account than your unsubstantuated comment.

Trumped
Guest
Trumped

Back up your claims it you are going to make them. Gun banners, prosecutors, media types, and crooked cops are used to being able to lie and not have to prove it, but you cannot get away with that here. Either back up your claims of admit that you are wrong.

We are waiting…

John Siwek
Guest
John Siwek

Oh so i guess you were there ?

Night driver
Guest
Night driver

The missing plate had not a lot to do with the search. He presented his CCL from another state. Cop asked if he had a gun on him (cop will never ask that the same way) and decided to search. His having the gun in the car was HARDLY the issue since he did not have a NY CHL which would have listed every handgun he owns (by MFG and Ser #). He is fortunate that the judge suppressed the search evidence. Good luck getting his stuff BACK legally in Rye. His BEST bet to get the items back is… Read more »

Jack Mac
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Jack Mac

I ran across some YouTube media on what happened to people who tried to file a complaint against police. They got my attention to what not to do, especially alone.

GunnyGene
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GunnyGene

There are currently 13 States in which a permit is not required, and therefore no record of firearm ownership is maintained by the State. If I drive to NY, etc. in my MS tag car, they can run the plate till hell freezes over and they will get zip info. So would the NYSP search me and my car simply because I’m a resident of MS? Probably. That’s what tyrants do.

Ed
Guest
Ed

If you have an out of state licence plate in New York, your chances of being pulled over increase by at least 50%. The state is broke and cops are told those out of staters are travelling cash registers. Really. Why people choose to live there is beyond me. Highest taxed state in the nation. Corrupt to the core governor. Collapsing infrastructure. Anti small business. Anti 2nd Amendment. I was lucky and got out of there. If you have to go there, remember, that plate makes you a target. Be smart! They don’t care if you’re a good guy or… Read more »

Heed the Call-up
Guest
Heed the Call-up

GunnyGene, many states do not register firearms with or without CC permits/licenses. For example, in my state, Virginia, the only record of what one might own is at the FFL dealer (Form 4473), if you bought your firearms from an FFL dealer. The state does not get a copy of that.

grizzman1
Guest
grizzman1

Hard to believe there is still a true Jurist left in NY state!
We need them everywhere in all court systems throughout the USA!

michael french
Guest
michael french

Let’s put some more fuel on this fire of Law Enforcement over stepping and then falsifying sworn testimony.
Per several statutes in New York State law, the hand gun is the only firearm allowed to be carried, or transported,
loaded, in or on, a vehicle, as vehicle is defined in several and various statutes of New York State law.
Hunting laws, Big Game, Small Game, Varmint, and Waterfowl regulations prohibit any and all firearms, except
handguns, be transported empty in chamber and magazine, in any and all defined motor vehicles.

Ron
Guest
Ron

Ok…so the plate could have fallen off etc. I agree with the article but he was still ‘stupid’! You don’t care what the law states? Then talk tough and get yer backside’s locked up. There are a lotta laws we don’t agree with.
So, go break em. I guarantee you’ll stick your tail’s between your legs and won’t be so cocky as ya are here.

Art
Guest
Art

So, you agree with the Fascist Left view that it is OK to break the law if you are ANTIFA, The Women’s March, or other pro-Democrat organizations but not if you’re a Conservative or a gun owner, how wonderful. I don’t know if Rose intended to do this (remember, intent is why they let Hillary ride) of if he was brilliant enough to pick up on the way he was asked, there was still insufficient probable cause to search the car. Unlike recognizing the smell of marijuana or other drugs, it is apparent that the police didn’t indicate they smelled… Read more »

Tionico
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Tionico

good on this judge. He did what he SHOULD have done, for a change, rather than sell out to the system. This judge declared, as part of hjis ruling that the testimony of the coppers, and the paperwork of the prosecutor, were not borne out by the audio and video recordings he examined. This is HUGE. It will take lawyerbux, or a good pro bono firearms law expert lawyer, to take up a case on contingency to nail all those who perjured themselves to press this case. Yes, PERJURED themselves. That is a felony. That would mean no more guns… Read more »

TaterSalad
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TaterSalad

Robert Mueller and James Comey and his “boys” should be proud of these prosecutors who are also dirt bags!

tomcat
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tomcat

The term “police state” comes to mind when I read this and I think it applies here. NY, NJ and others have gone beyond the threshold of what is practical and makes sense. I never gave it any thought that my concealed permit would cause me to be pulled over in a “police state” but now I know enough to stay out of them and not spend any money what so ever in any of them. The like to make laws and lock up their tax paying citizens with no revenue when they get done, only full prisons. Ignorance and… Read more »

RobW
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RobW
Wild Bill
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Wild Bill

Thank you David Codrea for bringing to our attention Professor James Duane’s “Don’t Talk to the Police” lecture. This is a $25,000 Christmas gift to those that are smart enough to watch all of the lecture and the VBPD cop’s discussion of how he gathers evidence.
Merry Christmas

Logixjock
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Logixjock

I’ve watched it twice over the years, it’s worth treating it as a yearly refresher course.

PAJohn
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PAJohn

What is a “New York identification card “? The man is a US citizen with a valid drivers license. OTOH, although he lucked out with the exact wording of the cops request, he should not have had loaded pistols while driving in the Stupid States. If he got nabbed in Jersey he would never be freed.

Jim
Guest
Jim

Everyone who has a concealed carry permit in their respective states takes a big risk when driving through communist states such as NY, IL, CA, MD, etc. inasmuch as, if an LEO in the communist state runs a check on an out-of-state license plate, it will provide information as to whether the owner possesses a CHL, which is why I don’t drive through such states.

Link
Guest
Link

Wrong, not all states tie ccw information with drivers license.

Larry
Guest
Larry

Alaska does. Same # on CCW permit as on drivers license.

Will
Guest
Will

There is a shared database that the cops can use to see if the owner of a vehicle has a CCW Permit. MD cops were doing this to FL vehicles, and stopping them specifically to look for guns if the owner was in the database. There was a lawsuit ongoing about a family they hassled for this reason. CA can see if a CA driver has an out-of-state permit. Hell, they have a DOJ website that lists how many in each county have this. My county in Silicon Valley lists about 10k Utah permits. CA doesn’t honor any other state… Read more »

jack burton
Guest
jack burton

Not so much Illinois these days. The current law reads that IF you have a valid CCW from another state that you can keep your handgun with you in the car legally. You cannot step out of the car carrying it, though. For example, getting gas. An exception is made if you are stepping out of the car for the purpose of placing the gun in the trunk while you leave the car. However, there is no exception for legally carrying the gun from the car to, for instance, a motel room where you are staying.

m.
Guest
m.

compare the arrest/conviction rate for concealed carriers vs. judges, lie-whores, police, & politicians. let me know who has the lowest rate, cu-homo.

Herb T
Guest
Herb T

Hard to believe democrats in New York would lie about guns (wink, wink). Seems most democrat politicians everywhere lie, cheat and likely steal.

Tom
Guest
Tom

The police did not lie about anything, neither did the DA. Jonathan Rose lied and stated that the gun was in Colorado. This article has it’s facts wrong.

Robw
Guest
Robw

Audio and video dispute that. That is what the judge heard and caused him to throw out the search.

Charlie
Guest
Charlie

Tom is retarded.

Tom
Guest
Tom

As I said, this article has it’s facts wrong. You are only of this opinion based on what the article is saying, but the article was written without the author doing any actual research on it and he has his facts wrong.

RobW
Guest
RobW

As I said earlier, I read about this story in more than one locations. Apparently, all the authors have it wrong. You at least say so yet have offered absolutely no proof to counter their claims. Is it possible you can’t understand why someone wouldn’t believe you? I’ve got an open mind, but I do require proof of some sort when it comes to disputes like this. I don’t always believe the media; in fact, I’ve got so I question them all the time. So provide some actual evidence.

Sid
Guest
Sid

If this don’t get ‘shot down’, they could use the excuse of seeing an NRA sticker or any evidence of hunting could be cause to search.

Tionico
Guest
Tionico

and precisely tht HAS happened… copper sees the NRA, Smith and Wesson, Browning buck, etc, and says Hmmm.. he likes guns. So do I, especially whan a citizen has one that some techinical glitch in the paperwork says he shouldn’t. Because I like the bust and resultand Gold Star I get even more than I like guns.

A sick world when laws are used to make criminals when there is no harm, no evil intent.

Ron
Guest
Ron

Not very smart on his part. No plate..hey pull me over. Weapons? He should have known better. Much better.
When transporting a weapon in any given state, living there or passing through,know the laws.(try) They are out there to read. I do wish him well.

2brknot2bfree
Guest
2brknot2bfree

Some states have only a rear plate. WV is one of those. I now reside there after being told I was no longer wanted in NYS by the Governor, Andy ‘L’il Duce’ Cuomo. I was bred, born, and raised in NY, and lived, worked, played there for 54 years. I was an avid hunter, a Pistol Permitee, even tho’ such was an affront to my knowledge of the meaning of ‘infringe’. Will I be pulled over when I go back to visit family merely because I do not have a front plate on my vehicle? I decided to put one… Read more »

Oldmariine
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Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> 2brknot2bfree It just so happens that the NY state and those associated with this incident has broken Federal law. This is one time that Law Enforcement screw-up. Those officers should know that they are now in liable for felony crimes against a citizen. I can readily think of at least three felonies committed by Law enforcement and that also includes Mr. Andy Cuomo. and a very serious crime that can be construed as Treason and Cohesion that has a maximum sentence of DEATH. The trouble is that most people see the law broken and can’t see it or… Read more »

Robert Messmer
Guest
Robert Messmer

You do know that plates can be a) stolen while parked and b) lost while driving, right? The driver could have been completely unaware of the missing plate.

TheHolyCrow
Guest
TheHolyCrow

I can’t believe that the NY authorities are acting this way against this fine gentleman. This is what happens when illegal, unconstitutional laws are left on the books. Although no one has a duty to obey or ENFORCE them, there are those who get their jollies messing up people’s lives. It’s enough to make you want to puke. I have many ancestors from the State of NY who gave their blood and treasure in the Revolutionary War, and they must be thoroughly disgusted looking down on this situation. These “Authorities” say, “Oh, but we must obey the law”, but they… Read more »