Trump’s Bump-Stocks Ban is a Bigger Danger for 2A than Most Realize

Opinion

Slide Fire SSAR-15 Mod Bump Fire Stock
Slide Fire SSAR-15 Mod Bump Fire Stock

USA – -(AmmoLand.com)- The Second Amendment means what it says, and laws restricting access to, or possession of firearms, ammunition, firearms accessories, knives, swords, nunchaku, billy clubs, black-jacks, or other implements of war or personal defense, violate the fundamental right to arms and the Second Amendment. Any gun is every gun, and any law restricting anything that can be characterized as a personal arm is an assault on all types of arms.

That’s the philosophy. Now let’s talk about existing law and bump-stocks.

Under the National Firearms Act and the Gun Control Act, machine guns are tightly regulated, and no new machine guns can be added to the existing pool of legally transferable machine guns. The BATFE has promulgated – at the president’s instructions, and with the agreement of the NRA – new regulations “clarifying” the terms “single function of the trigger” and “automatic” as they relate to the definition of “machine gun” under these laws. The effect of these “clarifications” is to support their declaration that “bump-stock-type devices” convert semi-automatic firearms into full-automatic firearms, thus making the devices themselves “machine guns” and subject to the restrictions outlined in the NFA and GCA.

The new determination also opens up a new avenue of attack on all semi-automatic firearms, as they all now meet the definition of a weapon that “can be readily restored to shoot” more than one shot with a single function of the trigger. That is a very big problem.

This new ruling is almost certainly going to survive the legal challenges being brought against it. I see it as highly improbable that those challenges will be successful at doing anything more than possibly delaying the enforcement of the new restrictions for a short time, and just maybe getting some compensation for owners who are forced to surrender or destroy the devices (though I think that is very unlikely).

Unfortunately, we the people have allowed the federal government to restrict certain classes of firearms for over 80 years, and in that time, substantial case law and precedent supporting those restrictions has been built up. The core issue of the constitutionality of these restrictions has never had a serious day in court, and this reinterpretation of the regulations is not going to provide that constitutionality hearing. If it did, we would almost certainly lose. Not because we’re wrong and the restrictions on machine guns are right, but because there is not enough jurisprudence and scholarly opinion in place to effectively support our arguments, and most judges and politicians are terrified at the idea of machine guns being legal. They will bend over backward to make sure that doesn’t happen. Even the late Justice Antonin Scalia made it a point to exclude machine guns from the Heller decision, on the basis of an “in common use” test. He applied a heavy dose of cognitive dissonance to argue that machine guns are not commonly owned in the U.S. while ignoring the fact that the only reason they are not more common is that they have been heavily restricted for over 80 years, and virtually banned since 1986.

Regardless of the devious and circuitous ways we got to where we are today, the fact is, the cards are heavily stacked against machine guns, and there is little that can be done against the phalanx of laws, regulations, and judicial prejudice lined up against them.

That’s not to say we shouldn’t try. I strongly support efforts to challenge this new BATFE regulation.

The first challenge case was filed by the Firearms Policy Coalition and is being handled by attorneys Josh Prince and my good friend Adam Kraut (who I am again endorsing in his run for a seat on the NRA Board of Directors in  2019). Erich Pratt at Gun Owners of America has also announced plans to file a suit against this BATFE reversal, and I applaud both efforts. I just don’t think it’s likely that either will be successful, because I believe BATFE’s arguments for their decision will be very convincing to any judge who hears them.

The argument boils down to whether a firearm employing a bump-stock is “automatically” cycling the action and firing more than one shot with “a single function of the trigger.” Our side says no because each shot requires some manual action on the part of the shooter to actuate the next shot. The counter-argument from the new BATFE Firearms Technical Branch analysis contends that the act of maintaining steady forward pressure with the support hand – which is a critical requirement of all bump-fire-type devices, and is included in all of their operator instructions – constitutes a “single function.” The shooter’s steady forward pressure on the fore-end replaces the trigger finger as the actuator of the firing cycle, and that steady forward pressure can readily be characterized as a “single function.” The shooter is not releasing and reapplying pressure as they would firing in normal semi-auto mode, but rather maintaining a steady pressure, which is momentarily overcome by each recoil pulse. The gun automatically repeats the firing cycle as long as the forward force is maintained, and there are only a handful of judges in the country who would not agree with that explanation and conclude that the described process meets the statutory and regulatory definitions of a machine gun.

We can argue among ourselves about these technical distinctions, but until everything goes to hell in a hand-basket, a group of judges reading current laws, regulations, and judicial precedents will be the ones making the final decision, and I see virtually no chance of them agreeing with our side.

While I’m not happy about how this has all gone down, and where it has ended up, I’m much more concerned about the broader implications of this new regulation going forward.

For decades, rights advocates have argued that conversion of a semi-automatic into a full-automatic, is a complicated and challenging process requiring specialized skills and equipment. Though there have been various workaround techniques demonstrated, such as the infamous, full-auto shoestring, and the time-honored, file-down-the-disconnector trick, there has never been an easy way to truly convert a semi-automatic into a machine gun. This new regulation changes that.

Whether you agree with the BATFE’s new definitions or not, once this goes into effect, under the color of law, it will be a straightforward thing to technically “convert” any semi-auto into a “machine gun.” And that creates some severe issues because the law also defines “machine gun” to include “any weapon” that can be “readily restored to shoot” more than one shot with a single function of the trigger.

Interdynamic_KG-99 Pistol
Interdynamic_KG-99 Pistol

It is also long-established law, that “readily restored” actually means “easily converted” to fire full-auto, such as the KG-9 pistol, which was classified as a machine gun because it fired from an open bolt, and could be relatively easily converted to full-auto by filing off the secondary sear.

By legally defining “bump-stock-type devices” as “machine guns” that can convert semi-automatic guns into “machine guns,” then by these same definitions, any semi-automatic rifle becomes a “machine gun” because they can all be “readily restored” to be “machine guns.”

We’re not likely to see an attack from this direction while Donald Trump is in the White House. But he won’t be there forever, and once he’s gone, and the next Obama/Clinton/Sanders, etc. holds the reins of the executive branch, there will be no legal barrier to the Attorney General “recognizing” the “danger” of all those “machine guns” in public hands, and criminalizing them with a scratch of a pen.

The Supreme Court has already allowed a lower court to get away with distorting Justice Scalia’s dicta in the Heller case to mean that AR15s are not covered by the Second Amendment. Because they are “like M-16s,” and Scalia himself, made it clear in his dicta that he didn’t want to include machine guns in the protections of the Second Amendment, so we can’t expect much support from that quarter.

The bump-stock issue has been mishandled from the beginning, and now it has turned into a matter that can do little more than raise some money for a few groups and reduce unemployment for lawyers while blowing a gaping hole in our future defense of the Second Amendment.


Jeff Knox
Jeff Knox

About Jeff Knox:

Jeff Knox is a second-generation political activist and director of The Firearms Coalition. His father Neal Knox led many of the early gun rights battles for your right to keep and bear arms. Read Neal Knox – The Gun Rights War.

The Firearms Coalition is a loose-knit coalition of individual Second Amendment activists, clubs and civil rights organizations. Founded by Neal Knox in 1984, the organization provides support to grassroots activists in the form of education, analysis of current issues, and with a historical perspective of the gun rights movement. The Firearms Coalition has offices in Buckeye, Arizona and Manassas, VA. Visit: www.FirearmsCoalition.org.

158 Comments
Most Voted
Newest Oldest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
willy d

@WillFlatt; Right, but lets keep on the common calling as Illegals, no sense in really confusing the already confused! @GregTorchia: Right and he was directed by the NRA to do something, thanks NRA one more time, open door for more left wing agenda! @NRA Ben; Right why do you think the UN wants their GUN BANDS, they want ours so we can’t fight back!!!! Like I keep saying send them to France and let them put up with their B/S!!!!!!!!! @OldMariine; You are right about taking the military head on, it has to be thought out on all levels as… Read more »

The Revelator

@Billy D Already behind the GOA cause. I’ve been pushing for the constitution to be enforced for about 15 years. I learned from my mistakes early on and the excuses I made when in High school. Part of the problem is we have some people who want their opinions to be justified, so they use or twist only certain parts to fit their needs. The irony is it is their votes, their opinions, that have got us here to this point. Now when they hear something that contradicts their opinions they try and fight to preserve them but they only… Read more »

Oldmariine

Olmarine >>> willy d THIS SHOULD BE INTERESTING READING… it may be long but covers Breaking Government Oath By the way ….There is another organization that is well ahead of the GOA in gathering support for the Constitution and the support there of. Join 85,687 American citizens who have signed onto the Oath Accountability Act for Constitutional Integrity https://oathact.us/ They feel (and this is a lot of lawyers ) at present, there is no legal penalty for Breach of Oath or legal obligation to abide by the plain language of our Constitution. But there is still Criminal law against Perjury… Read more »

The Revelator

@GregTorchia I’ll die on my feet before I’ll live on my knees. For the infighting, here’s the issue. Donald Trump called for and got the ball rolling on this ban. He called for it publicly and then had the executive branch create and implement it. Both that act and the ban are unconstitutional making Donald Trump an Oath Breaker. The problem arises from the fact that some people here have their feelings hurt by the truth. Now the statement was made that the individuals who started this ban should be brought up on charges of perjuring their oath. I agree… Read more »

The Revelator

@Oldmariine I notice you didn’t answer about why you attacked someone for putting up a petition to remove the ban? So lets look at your latest comments and the points you tried to make. 1. you lie like Hillary and believe them yourself. Funny, that appears to be what you have been doing this whole time. You attacked individuals for criticizing trump and calling to put pressure on him to remove the unconstitutional ban he ordered. 2. You still haven;t answered if you have done anything for you country? Yes I did, just not to you. Its in the comment… Read more »

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> D. Alighieri
That is really some good logical thinking, it really makes sense. If the military got into a war with the Citizenry, the weapons they have would cause maximum destruction killing many Americans Stupid to fight the military now days, because I believe they have weapons we don’t even know about. GOOD PRAGMATIC thinking. Semper Fi

Patriot

Likely if there is ever fighting you will not be fighting any US military, but rather UN military?

Patriot

The path is clear, we must increase GOA’s membership above and beyond the NRA’s!

Patriot

GOA fiiled their law suite today!

Go to their web site regarding more information!

Green Mtn. Boy

I quote from GOA’s announcement..

“Gun Owners of America has filed its lawsuit in the Western District of Michigan.”

“Not coincidentally, Michigan is located within the jurisdiction of the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals — a circuit which is not only very pro-gun, but also has been more skeptical of illegal government regulatory actions than many other circuits in the country.”

The Revelator

Good News Patriot. Saw it myself, and saw last week they were filing the paper work. VCDL has stated they would Join them too, and I love that the guys behind the Military Arms Chanel are tied in with it.

GregTorchia

Hope you guys can stop the infighting we need everybody on the same page after all our total goal is freedom and justice and the American way so to speak 1776 we need everybody to come together this is literally our last chance the door is going to close soon and it won’t be pretty I don’t care about myself that much But my childrenAnd their freedom are worth dying for, any day

William Flatt

It’s not infighting when this bump stock ban was NRA’s idea and pushed Trump into asking BATF to do a new reg. As usual, the NRA stabs gun owners in the back, effectively pissing down our backside and telling us it’s rain.

The fudds are welcome to stay with the NRA, but serious gun owners who value their rights need to join GOA and also support GOF, and other gun lobbys. NRA is for sh!t.

GregTorchia

Yeah it’s true ,,I’m not happy about what our president did ,,but I think he’s being misguided on purpose like somebody said “I don’t think he knows a bump stock from a speedbump “that being said “shall not be infringed “means “shall not be infringed “and I get it and I am with that only thing is if we can give up something stupid like a bump stock and get the wall built to me it would be worth the trade off to some maybe not and I understand What “shall not be infringed “means but I also understand what… Read more »

The Revelator

@GregTorchia My sympathies for you being in florida. Its a shame that 2 or 3 counties get to wreak havoc on the rest of your state. Florida used to be one of the freest in the nation until shortly into the 2000’s. The idea about giving up bumpstocks as a trade for something else however…. What you need to remember is that the people calling for the ban don’t work that way. They take what they can now because they know once it is in place it is close to impossible to remove. Then they come back for another slice… Read more »

The Revelator

@Firewagon

Feel free to unplug then, or join in. No one is stopping you from doing either.

Firewagon

As the CB’ers advised when a couple, or few, were hogging the channel wud say:”Take it to another channel!” Don’t impose your nonsense into our email boxes, either IN or SPAM. Give each of those you are contending with ‘your email’ or other “personal “ contact info and go at it in PRIVATE. The chances ANY of you will change even one mind is less than that of being struck by lightning!

tomcat

@ Firewagon You must be the new conversation monitor on this site. I’m not sure who promoted and made you the voice we should all listen to. Afterall, many of us have been here for several years and you are a newby coming in and running your mouth. If you don’t like what you read then it is a simple matter to just delete all of it unread, or do you not know how. You are wasting your time trying to tell the folks on this site to shut up. Should I suspect “troll”.

The Revelator

@Firewagon Well then as long as you are Rachet Jaw’in, why don’t you go pay the water bill. Quite honestly, you should have a little button in your email to “Unsubscribe” if it is that much of a burden for you. Tell you what… Why don’t you publicly post your email so that when you screw up hundreds of people can see it and start a campaign of writing emails to you non stop? Do you think Oldmariine would give up a personal email for that? Do you think I trust him with mine? I’ve met one person I trust… Read more »

The Revelator

@Oldmariine On December 22nd you wrote this “I would rather have the Bump Stock ( stupid attachment ) melt down into a pile of Sh1t than loose the 2nd” Also on December 22nd Will Flatt posted a petition to Reverse the Bumpstock Ban. You attacked him as saying this. “Another failed American that really suffers from a lack of reality. Trump is fighting the fight for you in swampland and you question his methods sounds more than a little childish.” Those are your words, and they are still on this page. You have routinely attacked any individual who questions or… Read more »

Patriot

Will the two children that are using this site for a personal fude please grow up and continue, if you must, by using a more private means to carry on!
We The People Thank You!

The Revelator

@NRA Ben You are more than welcome to move your email responses into the junk bin so they don’t bother you there. Further I extend my apologies to you for this inconvenience. This will not end as long as Oldmariine keeps posting his childish temper tantrum. I plan on calmly continuing to reply to him for as long as he wishes to keep this up. He messed up and attacked others for criticizing an attack on the constitution made by the President. If you want this to end, its him you need to convince. Have a nice day and a… Read more »

Firewagon

Unfortunately for the ‘readers’ of this blog, the ‘book writers’ will not give those they are “corresponding with” their email address, and/or telephone numbers, so they can continue their disagreements “privately!” Meanwhile those who ‘mistakenly’ opted to be notified of followup comments by email, have either their inboxes, or spam folders, overloaded with the p***in’ contest.

O

Oldmarine >>> Patriot I agree but I find the comments refreshing until they get off the subject and start attacking. This was supposed to be about BUMP STOCKS that I consider a POS. The ban is a crime against the Constitution but I also see that the Ban was started by some Oath BREAKING politician. My outlook is go after the criminal act of that person by charging them with” Perjury Under Oath.” That drags along about 4 other Federal crimes with it. I believe that is the only way to stop all the gun grabbers and those who can’t… Read more »

Tionico

@Old Marine… I believe you have the right of it. Sending the publically funded criminals to the hoosegow in large numbers is really the only cure. Trouble is, as in the old story, WHO will bell the cat? Remember back when a well-known and well connected Senator from Massachussetts carelessly drove his car off the road and into a canal, drowing his passenger? He took off and walked away, leaving her there to drown. WHAT were his personal consequences? Not much… no prosecutor or grand jury would write a bill to charge. He laid low for a while, then was… Read more »

Oldmariine

Old marine >>> Tionico
Real interesting is the California Codes covering Oaths of office
go to :
https://www.sccoclerk.com/Portals/15/Users/125/25/125/PDF%27s/oathsfaq.pdf
For very interesting reading
Semper Fi

Firewagon

Alrighty then ‘boys.’ I made the mistake of hitting the ‘followup’ button, and some of you guys, with your p***in’ contest ‘tomes,’ are overloading my email box with the same constant droning refrain – GO stand in the corner until you can make nice with other people! You want to ‘write,’ write a book and get it published, nobody has the time or interest in reading “your history,” or personal philosophy!

The Revelator

@Firewagon.

Then don’t read. You have the right to make that choice.

The Revelator

@Oldmariine “We are all a little broken but the last time I checked, broken crayons still could color.” This is true. However, I do have a question in response. When you went into the corps, do you remember they had to break you down in boot camp in order to rebuild you into a Marine? You didn’t become a Marine unless you survived boot camp and Hell week. The Globe and Anchor is earned, not given. In the same way ego and opinion can act as a block that keep fact and truth from getting in, and often because human… Read more »

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> The Revelator You still can’t read without putting you meaning into the words. Yes the Corps takes the civilian crap out of every Marine but some are already Marines at heart. I come from a long line of marines all the way back before WW1, That’ s why I came out of Boot Camp as Honor Man and High Shooter, I still keep those certificates. You believe I said something bad about the 2nd amendment but in face I said just the opposite and still you are stuck in on your erroneous belief That I did. Words are… Read more »

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> The Revelator WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR YOUR COUNTRY ?????? I now know how twisted you are. You want to muddy the water so others can’t see the truth. You put your own meaning to words anyone you can’t understand. Where in the hell can you get so confused. you said that I said, ” I had no problem with a bumpstock ban’ read the comment again… I said that “I didn’t like the bump stock” and what I said about the Construction you twisted like Hillary copy cat. It quiet evident you have never been in any… Read more »

GregTorchia

All gave some ,some gave all -thank you for standing and delivering be proud of our heritage /Our republic will stand for freedom after we are long gone and you can bet the ranch on that

dava golino

We could forget the Wall if… let’s make a DEAL, We The People keep our GUNS, stop the anti-gun BS. No more gun control, we forget the wall, we can protect our homes from the criminals the democrats want for votes. that would be a deal.

Patriot

No deal we the people are entitled to both!!!

Patriot

No deal! We are entitled to have both fitearms & the wall!
We the prople arenot the bargining NRA!

Oldmariine

Oldmariine >>> patriot
Thanks for the info,,,, I signed up Also
Semper Fi

Will Flatt

Sorry, if we don’t get immediate control over the border by building a REAL WALL like Trump wants, then we’ll be overrun with Demorat-voting ILLEGAL ALIENS everywhere in the USA and the Dems will control the whole US government by 2020!!! THEN THEY’LL GO FOR THE GUNS BY FORCE, and probably sign up all the wetbacks to fight in the military against us in exchange for citizenship!!

I say we build the wall, outlaw the Demonrat Party, and deport all Leftists as traitors. And deport the wetbacks too!

willy d

@Revelator; There are times that we all get opinionated on certain issues, it takes time to step back and look them over, I myself stand for the 1st and 2nd Amendments, because without one the other is lost, standing for the Constitution is every bodies job, not to be picked apart or used they see fit! It was put down when this Republic started, it has changed over the years to correct mistakes that were made through other Amendments, to this document, and making our Republic stronger and a better place to live. I also had problems in the Army… Read more »

The Revelator

@Oldmariine Sorry, my track record here is a lot longer than your insults so trying to call me a Democrat troll wont work. Too many people here know me. Tionico, Heed the Call-up, WildBill, Vanns40 and others. The problem here is your own words. You yourself said you had no problem with a bumpstock ban even if it is a violation of the Constitution because you feel they are worthless pieces of junk. Those were your words, not mine. And to be clear, when I say Oath Keeper I am not referring to the political group but to men who… Read more »

Tionico

Rev=o=lator Lighten up ,dude. No I don’t mean compromise your integrity, nor give a pass in the face of evil. You come across very as very harsh and condemining. You did that to me back when we had our disgreement. You never did PROVE how I was wrong.. you simply repeated what you had said earlier, then said “you’re wrong”…… Remember this.. the wiscom that comes from above is first pure (no personal motives, gain, scores) peaceable (does not unnecessarily foment division, strife) easily entreated (can be comfortably taken apart, examined from different perspectives, easily explained and taught….. ). Yet… Read more »

The Revelator

@Tionico This is being stated solely from memory so I may be mistaken, but if you want to find the corresponding article and link back to it we can go over it again if you wish. If I remember our row correctly, it was over the subsections of Article 3 in regards to data Files for blueprints of firearms and the Defense Distributed case. What I had tried to point out to you from the start was that no section of the constitution can over rule and invalidate another, and second that what you were talking about was a matter… Read more »

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> The Revelator
“We all eat lies when our heart is hungry”
Fuckology

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> The Revelator
We are all a little broken but the last time I checked, broken crayons still could color.

GregTorchia

Peace and prosperity to allRemember the reason for the season/this too shall passAmerica the beautiful Shall be againYou can be at the ranch on it

willy d

@OldMariine; So true, But I was not a Marine, but I took the same Oath as all Veterans, to defend the Constitution from all Enemies Foreign or Domestic, So Help Me God!!!!!!!!!!! Have a Very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!!

The Revelator

@Billy D I’m sending this to you because Oldmariine wont understand it. I’m the son of a Marine who has also taken the oath like you. When I got out of High School, I tried to enlist on three separate occasions, with different branches. Because of an issue with my knees combined with my flat feet, I had almost all the cartilage removed from one knee in high school and the other is completely shredded inside. As such I am persona non grata with the armed forces, a designation 4F because my knees were destroyed before my freshman year. If… Read more »

The Revelator

@Billy D Your reply isn’t showing up here on the webpage yet, but I wanted to send this to you in case it goes to your email. First of all, thank you for your service from the bottom of my heart. Secondly, thank you for being a friend to someone else who served and being a part of their life. My Grandfather was a Korean War vet that almost lost his life, and became close friends with a Vietnam vet who was a River Rat(their nickname for swift boat men). Both gave the other someone to understand and deal with… Read more »

Oldmarine

oldmarine >>> The Revelator So you think it is childish to lose ones cool when hearing lies and twisting the truth. Here is a few quotes from Winston Churchill “I like a man who grins when he fights.” “A lion never loses sleep over the opinions of sheep” “I never worry about action, only about inaction.” So this will be my last comment addressed to you. !. you lie like Hillary and believe them yourself. 2. You still haven;t answered if you have done anything for you country? 3. You evidently can’t or won’t fight but with words. 4. You… Read more »

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> ALL Just so you can see all of the bills that have been started by OATH BREAKERS, take a gander at this list. ALL our Constitutional problems start with the Oath Breakers. Members of the legislature that break the first sentence of their Oath of Office That is where we need to start prosecuting them an troubles will go away. WAKE UP this is where it all begins. Read it and weep. OORAH List of all the Anti-Gun bills • HR 3947 – Bans parts and accessories that increase the rate of fire of a semi-automatic firearm •… Read more »

Old Shooter

And they all took an Oath to support the Constitution as well as to protect America? They Lied?

GregTorchia

It’s all part of their deep-rooted Marxist Second Amendment people control plan /it’s been in the works for years- that’s how “they”roll (slow con)Patriots be advised ;and strip down for 1776 on steroids

willy d

@Oldmariine; Two Great Stories, both with Truth in both, all we can hope for is that it all works out for the better, keep looking on the bright side, as it gets frustrating being put down all of the time, with no sign of any of the Swamp People heading for Jail any time soon, Have a good holiday!!!!!!!!!

JACMAC

Our governments should be made aware that have already gone to far trying to suppress us. They are close to the point of no return.

Jack Mac

already signed.

Green Mtn. Boy

@ Tionico

Another important thing missing from the staged photos,not crime scene photos,is piles and piles of spent casings scattered about the floor,oh I know he used case less ammunition in his crime.

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> ALL so true An Indian walks into a cafe with a shotgun in one hand and pulling a male buffalo with the other. He says to the waiter: “Want coffee.” The waiter says, “Sure, Chief. Coming right up.” He gets the Indian a tall mug of coffee. The Indian drinks the coffee down in one gulp, turns and blasts the buffalo with the shotgun, causing parts of the animal to splatter everywhere and then just walks out. The next morning the Indian returns. He has his shotgun in one hand, pulling another male buffalo with the other. He… Read more »

Wild Bill

Oldmarine, That is a good joke! Thank you for the gift of laughter. Merry Christmas and many Happy New punchlines.

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> Wild Bill
Same to you and rest assured that we all sleep these holidays under the protection of the men who spend their lives protecting us, GOD BLESS them all. I always think about those that never came home to enjoy the Holidays. Semper Fi

Bruce Willard

That’s a real good joke. Haven’t heard that one before; and I’ve been around a long time.

willy d

@OldMariine; You are right on many things, The Piss-ants that are going against the Constitution are in dire need to be brought up on charges of treason against the Oath that they took when they took office, they are no better than anyone that served in any branch of the Military, it has no expiration date that I know of other than DEATH!!!!!!!!

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> willy d
Same to you and with hope that you will remain strong and healthy, protecting your family from the bad guys.
Semper Fi my friend

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> Guess Like many citizens, I’ve wondered and tried hard to understand why Trump has such a remarkable following. (It’s obvious why he probably should not!) Then a friend sent me this raccoon story. It makes no difference about your political leanings, this is just a good explanation of WHY. If you really want to know how the majority of people feel? ……………………………….. You’ve been on vacation for two weeks, you come home, and your basement is infested with raccoons. Hundreds of rabid, messy, mean raccoons have overtaken your basement. You want them gone immediately. You call the city,… Read more »

GregTorchia

Ha ha ha wait till the communications and electricity grid goes down you’ll find out who’s got true grit and pantywaist keyboard warriors will be shuffling for a ass cover/Can you just imagine hundreds of thousands of tier 1 operators and contractors retired and active heed the call /do you hear what I hear? It’s like napalm in the morning -Smells like victory

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> GregTorchia
Ha so true ! When the smoke clears it will probably look more like the Nam with all the Sh1t barrels burning every morning. Ha Ha

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> Guess

“One man with conviction can overwhelm a hundred men with opinions ”
” Life is fraught with opportunities to keep your mouth shut ”
” If you are not a Liberal by 20 then you have no heart, if you are not a conservative by 40, you have no brain”
” There is nothing the government can give you that it hasn’t taken from you in the first place.”

Winston Churchill

Oldmariine

Qldmarine
Mark Twain said it best
“Politicians and Diapers must be changed often, both for the same reason “

willy d

The worst part about this ban, opens the door to not do away with the 2nd Amendment, but to destroy all modification if they want to. Even if the manufacture makes a change the ATF could clam that it is illegal thus it is by only a part same as the Bump-Stocks, this will only open the door to more parts being listed illegal at their whims and PC makes them rule and doesn’t even have to work at the 2nd Amendment or remove it, just in their wording and definition they just say it is illegal and can’t have… Read more »

John

Ohio Court finds Bump Stock ban unconstitutional (see Ohioanns For Concealed Carry et al vs Columbus City et al, #18CV005226, decision penned by Judge David Cain, 12 Jul 18). The case hinged on two words “components” vs “accessory”. Firearm components, via State law, fell within the ambit of legality, the City of Columbus, in its infinite wisdom, defined Bumb Stocks as an accessory, by enacting an ordinance, which banned its citizens from knowingly acquiring, have, carry, or use an illegal rate-of-fire acceleration firearm accessory, ….violators guilty of unlawful possession of firearm accessory, a misdemeanor…” Judge Cain found “…,it is clear… Read more »

John

Indeed. And the NRA seeking amnesty for those law abiding firearm owners (who refuse to commit crimes) now that their legal commercial purchases are deemed illegal after the fact, shameful!

Firewagon

Well, now old and unable to ‘run fast,’ they can likely get mine; however, unless dead by the first shot, they will have to dig mine out from under a pile of empty brass. It will still be wrapped around at least one trigger ‘assembly’ that they likely have already banned!

Green Mtn. Boy

Below is Negotiating Rights Away official statement on the bump stock ban,of particular interest is their capitulation excuse. Beyond time to drain Negotiating Rights Aways swamp scum from the organization,if the goal is to protect the 2 nd. amendment as written. “As multiple media accounts correctly pointed to at the time, there was overwhelming legislative support for proposals that went far beyond these specific devices and some that could have potentially jeopardized all semiautomatic firearms. Rather than sit back and watch a legislative over-reaction, the NRA asked Congress to let ATF review its prior determinations on bump fire stocks.” “Some… Read more »

John Dunlap

I have a serious question here for Mr. Knox, or anyone with legal training. Could we dismantle this body of misapplied law with an attack on its inconsistency and lack of clarity? For example, it occurs to me that this can impact firearms other than semi autos. The ATF argument could apply to, say, any single action revolver. If I hold the trigger down and fan the hammer, as long as the judge ignores what I’m doing with my off hand, as is being done with bump stocks, then I am firing multiple rounds with a single function of the… Read more »

Mike in Texas

How do I get my money back from the NRA for my “Life Membership” contribution?

Green Mtn. Boy

@ Mike in Texas

Good luck with that,I wrote Negotiating Rights Away almost two years ago for the same and also wrote the same to the entire list of board members ,haven’t heard form NRA nor even a single board member. I’ve called also and one time I spoke with a real person,she gave me a name and ext. #.,left a voice mail and Never heard a peep.

If you fare any better be sure to let us know.

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> Wild Bill to hear all the opinions on this subject you would think a solution would pop up. In the first place the Bump Stock is the most god awful piece crap that ever endangered a shooter and throws away ammo. I’ve done better with a M1 Grand a piece of string and a strong rubber band. The beauty of it was I had little control but still better than a bump stock. All of this bitching crap irritates me because most 90 % on the blog don’t seem to realize that the only way to solve the… Read more »

Randy Locher

I’d give them to the Gangbangers before I would turn them in to this Demonic Government!

Greg

Send them all to Chicago, LA, NYC and San Fran.

jim smith

If anyone out there has one, I suggest you destroy it rather than turn it in. If a large number are surrendered, it will embolden the anti-gunners to argue that they should have more bans on other firearms or firearm accessories because law-abiding citizens will sheepishly obey them.

Pete Alves

Amen

Jimbo66

I guess it’s time for all you gun ppl to hide those bang bang sticks until we can take no more of or rights being stopped. Because then they will be needed in a very bad way along with lots and lots of ammo for them to take back what was stolen from we free Americans. They won’t stop at ridding US of our second, without a very fast follow up of getting rid of our first and then every one of our right they find inconvenient. Everyone has to know that when President Trump leaves office, weither it’s 2020… Read more »

G dubb

Let us not lose sight of the bigger picture. I see several people fighting against one another here. We’re on the same team, and we must support one another and orgs who actually work to stop BS legislation if we are going to keep our protected rights intact. I for one am having a really hard time understanding why our president keeps trying to appease the socialists. They will obviously NEVER support him in any way, yet he continues to cave in and bow down to them at almost every turn. So sad. NOT what we voted for. If he… Read more »

Tionico

the REAL test as to whether this silly contraption “converts” a semi auto into a full auto firearm would be to take a semi auto, hold it with ONLY the trigger hand, fingers rond grip/stock, press the trigger, and count how many rounds get fired with that one press. Now, take a full auto firearm, do the same, and note how many are fired THIS time. NOW, take one of those Black and Ugly civilian rifles, fit it with one of those contraptions, run the test one more time, record THAT result. Now compare the results of the third test… Read more »

Douglas G

You forget that the ATF “clarified” the definition of words in order to change the meaning so it could ban the item. They already knew that bumpstocks still only fire one shot per single trigger pull, so the re-define “single” and “one” to make them qualify as “machine guns”. It’s why bumpstocks were found to be legal accessories by the ATF as recent as 2010 before the “clarification”.
The real, big, problem is the re-defining laws by bureaucrats, and not elected officials, that goes against the Constitution. Now take action to stop this, and share it far and wide. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/reverse-bump-stock-ban-against-firearm-parts

Chiefton

Better yet is to take your finger out of the trigger and push the forearm forward and see if the firearm even discharges. We all know that it will not discharge and therefore it takes 2 actions not a single action to discharge the gun. That in itself proves the law to be incorrect.

Tionico

And one more essential test: remove the bumpstock from the rest of the rifle. Now hold the bumpstock as you did when the rifle was secured to it. Press your trigger finger and see what happens now. If that device is a “machine gun” or “fully automatic rifle” why can it NOT fire any rounds all by its lonesome?

Fraudsters, these ATF clownd.

Charge everyt one of them with felony level perjury. Go after their personal bond and insurance for malfeasance and harm to they whom they are supposed to serve…..

freeillinois

I don’t own an AR or similar type of firearm so some could say the bump stock issue doesn’t effect me as a gun owner. Fact is that could be further from the truth. The Bump Stock ban is a direct infringement on our right to keep and Bear Arms.
The NRA is wrong for having told Trump the stocks are garbage and Trump is wrong for banning them.

We need to stop Trumps Treason and the NRA sell-out on this issue.

Let the President and the NRA know of your disgust; Demand a repeal of the Ban

Charly Fox

The plain truth is, the government do not want you to have modern firepower to threaten them, If they could they would love to have us, with one Musket … and no flint.
CF

R Vincent Warde

FIRST, WE SHOULD CHALLENGE THIS AND MULTIPLE PARTIES ARE DOING SO. That said, the language used here has been applied to all firearms for decades. The sky is not falling. This will not enable ATF to ban anything they want to ban. It will not allow them to ban all semi-autos. So, why challenge it? Simple: Even if it is upheld, we could get courts to give us something very useful. For instance, if this gets to SCOTUS, we could get an opinion that makes it clear that semi-auto rifles are protected by the 2A. See this post for more:… Read more »

tomcat

The elites have been pushing us for many years, one after another and their goal is to see how far they can push before the SHTF or stop just before then. They don’t want to be the first to strike because they know that will put them at a perceived disadvantage so if they keep pushing us they will get us to take first action and the consensus will be that we are the bad guys. It is apparent they think they can continue to push a little at a time and win without a shot being fired. The answer… Read more »

Dr Michael

Since you can bump fire most rifles (without the fancy stock) shouldn’t we outlaw shooters in general? After all, shooters potentially can convert most weapons into a “machine gun”. Just saying.

Green Mtn. Boy

They are going to Ban Jerry Miculek,they can’t Ban Jeery’s finger,although I’m sure some Marxist moron will try.Can’t ban Jerry’s finger,so just ban all semi automatic firearms,or better yet the real goal ban all firearms,that’s what it is all about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTb6hsSkV1w

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> dava golino Be careful of thoughtless comments because you tend to sound more like a traitor to the cause of Freedom. You really don’t talk like a patriot because you are wishy washy about sticking to the fight when it gets ugly. This ” No Holds Bared Fight ” ,. This fight is not a fight for just about the 2nd, its about the Whole Constitution. If you hold you Freedom and Rights valuable then stick with the attack to protect those values. Trump is fighting the fight getting bloodied and you sit on your couch and judge… Read more »

dava golino

up next how to make your semi auto into a bolt action 19December 2018…president trump has turned into hillary clinton really sad.
he said he would work with Russia to fight terrorists… no, he caved in
he said hillary for prison. …no, he can’t
he said he would stand for the 2nd amendment… no he caved in.
that is that, over finished. what is next open borders? yep that too

Douglas Gerber

If the government can “re-define” terms, at will, and outlaw the plastic/polymer bump stock, then every attachment for the AR platform rifles can also be “clarified” to change the way the law looks at the rest of the semi-auto rifles. Like in CA they have an attributes/parts list of what makes a rifle an assault weapon i.e. pistol grip, forward grip, adjustable stock, removable magazine. All plastic parts, as we like to point out, that do nothing to change the action of the rifle. With this “Law” there can now be an objectionable parts list that reclassifies any firearm. Since… Read more »

mikeL

@ hippybiker. I’m afraid you are correct. Sad, but true. I roll year to year, and was unable to have my $ returned. But, I will put that $ to the organizations that do have a FIRM grasp of the 2nd amendment and our Constitution!

Robert Thomas

Regardless of how you feel about the bumpstock issue, Mr. Knox reasoning is flawed. His argument centers on the premise that if they can ban a bumpstock because is easily converts a semiautomatic to fully automatic, then semiautomatic can be banned because they can all be “easily” converted. Really? Can’t think of a firearm off the top of my head that is “easy” to convert. Certainly not as easily as installing an accessory. Can they be converted? Sure, but it takes a handful of parts that are difficult to obtain or fabricate AND then access to a machine shop AND… Read more »

Joey Nichols

The “problem” is bump stocks DO NOT make a “machine gun “ as the trigger is still only firing ONE bullet with each pull of the trigger, just really fast. So, this ban IS already “banning “ a semi-automatic firearm.

But the real problem: apparently we disagree on the interpretation of the words: “….. shall not be infringed.”

Heed the Call-up

Robert Thomas, you didn’t understand what Jeff Knox wrote. Semi-autos are “easy to convert” because they can all be “bump” fired. One does not even need a device to “bump” fire, just a steady forward pressure on the firearm. Even pistols can be “bump” fired. A quick Internet search on “bump” firing will educate you on this issue. So, the issue is that if all semi-autos can be “bump” fired, they can all be “converted” to fire “automatically, even without any “modifications” – the only “modification” is in how you hold and “press” the trigger. Bump firing not accurate, just… Read more »

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> Heed the Call-up
Good LOGICAL comment You evidently understand Semi Auto weapons. Spray and Pray weapons are only good for “Cover and Ambush”. I wouldn’t mind having a UZI in my collection but I have NO aching desire for one. Thanks for a good analytical answer on the Bump Stock use. The Ban is just another crime against the Constitution that we let the Politicians get away with. Isn’t a wonder how a bullet can solve so many problems? Semper Fi

Firewagon

Just guessing, but I would think that CCW Reciprocity bill and the SHUSH Act will NEVER again see the light of day? Oh well, I don’t bury my gun at some state’s border, or carry several binders full of various state gun laws, when traveling. I am also old enough, and my hearing having been compromised long ago on Marine Corps firing lines using spit moistened cotton for hearing “protection,” so that SHUSH act would only be beneficial to my grandkids anyway! The old saying does apply here, though; “First they came for the baker, but I wasn’t a baker,… Read more »

Alan Fraize

SCREW YOU TRUMP AN YOUR INFRINGEMENT ON THE 2ND PIECE OF SHIT

Wild Bill

@Albbac2 Fraise, Trump does not know a bump stock from a speed bump. Trump does not know what the Second Amendment entails or represents. Trump is a businessman. We picked him because he is a non-politician. Trump is getting bad advice, that is all. Trump is still better than any professional politician.
The whole deception that an agency of the federal government has the authority to create a “rule with the force and effect of law” was created by a professional politician; is unconstitutional; and now we are stuck with it.

jim smith

The following excerpt is from page 4 of the final police report on the Las Vegas Shooting. “From 1982 through September of 2016 the killer purchased 29 firearms. These purchases consisted of handguns, shotguns and one rifle. From October 2016 through September 2017, the killer purchased over 55 firearms. Most of the firearms purchased from 2016 through 2017 were rifles in various calibers along with over 100 firearm-related items through numerous retailers. The firearm related items included scopes, cases, bump stocks and ammunition”. So the question is what happened near October of 2016 that made him decide after 34 years… Read more »

Doug

Jim, check out this attorney video discussing exactly what it says and what to do.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/ulHQPpOa_Vk?fbclid=IwAR33oYnOa2LQNsfCqPJyK3jdpi0RLtmkSMH-ji_rfiHQHAiWo2P06ANVmuE

jim smith

This lawyer claims we don’t know if any bump stocks were used in the Las Vegas Shooting. The final police report describing the evidence starting on page 96 shows pictures of 12 AR-15’s with bump stocks.

https://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/Documents/1-October-FIT-Criminal-Investigative-Report-FINAL_080318.pdf

Heed the Call-up

jim smith, the interesting part about that document is that it shows most of the shots were from rifles fitted with bump stocks. If that were true, why didn’t this become public knowledge? The other issue is that accuracy of bump fired firearms is extremely poor. Also, a bipod makes bump-firing more difficult, since the rifle needs to move forward and back, which a bipod naturally inhibits. Of the 15 rifles with bump stocks found in his rooms in LV, according to this report, 11 were used with 949 of the 1,057 shots fired coming from those firearms. One would… Read more »

Tionico

Yes, pics of a dozen or more AR style rifles, nearly all with either no sighting devices or scopes, a few have laser optics, usless ad the 400+ yard ranges the guy worked at. So the riles with bump stocks were found afterward at the alledged scene of the firing post. But we DO NOT HAVE PROOF any of them with bump stock WERE ACTUALLY USED, nor any evidence as to what advantage their use provided. How about ballistics testing from any of the many found projectiles? Let’s have the workup on THOSE…. full report of all recovered projectiles, and… Read more »

Ray Mo

I didnt see more than a single AR with a bumpstock in that Swat Team video when they entered the room, nor did I see casings covering the floor.
How do you bumpfire on a tripod anyway?
The firing in the videos all sound like a M240 or M249 to multiple experts…

Wild Bill

@DougMann, That is a fantastic video! Great explanation by a knowledgeable attorney … and easy on the eyes, too!

Patriot

Kind of suprised Wayne didn’t offer up optics that attach to firearms since improve accuracy and at increased distances well beyond what our Fiunding Fathers had? Maybe next time?
Adam to replace Wayne!

Oldmariine

Oldmarine >>> Patriot You know I really don’t mind Getting rid of a Piece of Sh*t like the bump stock. It is an insult ot any good weapon to put it on. The sorriest piece of junk ever devised for any weapon. Every couch mouse that bitches about stuff like this is one crayon short of a full box. Patriots should be Placing Charges against the Politicians breaking their Oath of Office and attacking the 2nd, the First line in their Oath. If you do this then all gun related legislation will disappear and all remaining crap with it. Can’t… Read more »