Pro-2A NRA Haters Here is an FYI For You

Comments by NRA Board Member Duane Liptak

Crybabys College Snowflakes
Pro-2A NRA Haters Here is an FYI For You

USA –  -(AmmoLand.com)- So, it’s relatively popular to bash the NRA right now, and we have a lot of folks in our own community that are happy to jump on that bandwagon. I get it. I don’t like where we are at with the 2A situation, either, and I wish the NRA could yell “Shall not be infringed,” from the mountaintops.

But, through my involvement with the org over the past years, and the insight into the DC and state level situations I’ve unfortunately had to gain about lobbying and managing lobbying efforts, I also understand some things that make me appreciate the strengths of what the NRA actually brings to us, and I felt compelled to share that as a comment on some posts that decried the current state of the NRA. Some folks urged me to make it sharable, so I’m doing so, with some cleaning up of my language. 🙂

I get that some folks will call me full of it, or claim “the NRA is in full damage control” or whatever, but this isn’t an NRA statement. This is a statement from me, a very, very zealous advocate for extreme libertarian gun rights, with an understanding of the current political landscape. Take it as you will, but please put aside your prejudices for just a moment to read, because if we can’t get everyone pushing in the same direction, we can’t beat the disarm-America-movement, because they are more than willing to get together to achieve our ruin.

In any of this commentary, I’m speaking for myself, not for the NRA.

I have to use that disclaimer, as I’m speaking out of turn, and this is MY PERSONAL understanding of the events and information, not official NRA position. I suppose some of this information could also be potentially damaging to future efforts because it lays out some reasoning and strategy, but it’s to a point right now where people need to understand some things. The NRA is not just your best defense, they are your ONLY defense. FPC does fantastic legal work, as does SAF. GOA is great at grass roots email activation and they file some amicus briefs and lawsuits. All of them have ZERO capability to interact with lawmakers in a meaningful way more than me running up to DC, which I do a couple times a year. No one else does, period, and that’s why I’m on board with helping to steer the NRA rather than bash it.

I’ll start out by saying I’m about as hard core libertarian on gun laws as it gets, as in mail order suppressed FA belt feds for everyone. Let’s also get out that pretty much everyone in the NRA building is pretty far along that line, as well. I was talking to Chris and crew about strategies to open the registry during the Bumpfire stock litigation while we talked about how to fight some of the things we know are coming. They’re on board, really. Now, the other side of this is that it’s Washington, D.C., and the number one priority of most congress-folk is getting re-elected. To some extent, that’s fine, as they are supposed to be representing the will of their district or state, and votes support that. When they evaluate an issue, they look at how it will help or hurt their re-election, and…what else they can get for it. If they support A, can they get B as an amendment to help their state, can they count on attracting donors with a particular stance, etc. So let’s take a look at the bumpfire stock thing.

Bump Stocks

Slide Fire Solutions Bump Stock Destruction Details
Slide Fire Solutions Bump Stock Destruction Details

After Vegas, bumpfire stock legislation was drafted, but NRA had the juice to kill it. Then we have Parkland, and the public outcry to the lawmakers is that we have to “do something for the children”, even if it’s meaningless and dumb—because it was kids this time instead of adults in a currently unsympathetic demographic like Vegas. A strong majority of both chambers were willing to pass a bumpfire stock ban as “something”. The language in the legislative ban included binary triggers, cranks, etc., and could also at some point be interpreted by ATF to include ANY aftermarket trigger and even be mangled to include semi-autos in general as having the capability to have rates of fire similar to machine guns and thus, be regulated.

It would be a disaster. NRA pushed back hard, but guess what…the legislators were reacting to public sentiment, and they had more than enough votes to pass it. It was going to come out of committee.

We (Magpul) yelled at our lobbyists to kill it. NSSF was trying to kill it. NRA was trying to kill it. But…Trump apparently dislikes two things in the firearms world: bumpfire stocks and elephant hunting, for reasons that are his own. So a veto was not happening. So…what’s your play? You can say “No bans, not one inch” and send out a fundraising email, and everyone would feel good about the NRA position, but the ban would have passed, and the Dems would potentially have everything they needed for a semi-auto ban already in law, ready to be interpreted nefariously. So, the decision to make the push to regulatory was hatched. NSSF was on board, as well, as everyone thought there was a better chance of killing it in regulatory, or at least fighting it as it would be a hell of a stretch to regulate like that. The NRA’s wording was poor from my perspective. Even if they said, “you don’t need legislation because this is a regulatory matter, and regulatory can take a look at it and clarify,” that would have been better. But, they didn’t…for a few reasons.

One, I’m sure they hoped that their “support” of a regulatory fix could sour the legislative efforts and then cancel the regulatory look, too. In any case, the legislation was averted by the push to regulatory, and the regulatory ban is narrow and also likely to be overturned. FPC is making good authority arguments in their suit, and the NRA is arguing on “takings”. The Dems have reintroduced the legislative ban in the house this session because they wanted the “other” stuff that was also intentionally included. As long as the regulatory ban lasts while legal arguments are happening, the bill can probably be killed. Is that a trade or a compromise? No. It’s not a trade if a dog turd sandwich is being forced down your throat, and it’s pretty much a done deal, but you manage to get away with only taking one bite instead of the whole thing. But, the left LOVES it when the NRA does such things because they have trolls [posting right here on AmmoLand] that are helping to divide the gun community, although we do a great job of it ourselves.

The stronger the NRA is, the stronger the positions can be. The more members the NRA has, the more pressure they can bring in discussions about elections and the more support that stronger positions have when talking to politicians. The more money they have, the more we can spend in elections. Is the NRA perfect? Oh, heck no! No organization is. But they are our only real chance. The NRA, with the help of the NSSF, also, has killed an actual AWB and magazine restrictions on the national level several times in the past few years alone. I, or our lobbyists, have seen it. No one else was even considered part of the conversation, regardless of posturing. We also wouldn’t have FOPA [Firearms Owner Protection Act], and if anyone wants to complain about Hughes, which I hate as much as anyone, if you were currently living under GCA ’68, and had the chance to get the FOPA protections, but someone slipped in the Hughes amendment at the last minute to try to poison the bill, you’d still support passing it.

The NRA didn’t give you GCA ’68. They tried to minimize damage in another time when overwhelming support for even worse gun control existed after Kennedy and King were assassinated. NFA originally included handguns, also, and was in a similar period of hysteria about mob violence. Without the NRA and also the NSSF, we wouldn’t have had the Lawful Commerce in Arms act of 2005, and the entire firearms industry in the US would be out of business by now—sued into bankruptcy just by fending off lawsuits from Bloomberg lawyers.

There are a lot of wins there, but make no mistake…I want more, too. However…please understand that even with the R majority we had for the last two years…soft Rs like Flake, Rubio, and the other purple district congressmen and senators had us in a bad spot even then. Repealing the NFA, as much as I want that to die, has about 5% support in Congress right now. You’re not getting that legislatively unless you change out 95% of Congress, no matter how hard we could push for it, or how many “strong statements” anyone makes.

We are, in reality, barely hanging on to a slim majority of elected officials at the national level that even believes the 2A is an individual right!

The only path to right this course, especially with states like CA, CO, NJ, MA, NY, WA, etc., is through judicial review. And…love Trump or hate him, regardless of anything else he has done, if it were Hillary putting 2, possibly 3 judges on the USSC bench, the 2A would be dead in 10 years. That’s why NRA went all in with him. Not because he was a philosophically pure candidate on all of 2A, but because he was willing to put pro 2A judges on the bench, and because he could win. No one else on our side could, and the alternative—a Hillary presidency—would have been disastrous.

But They Get Paid Too Much

Money Lawsuit Ammunition Cash Lawyers
Executive salaries in the NRA are not shabby.

Someone is going to bring up salaries and expenditures and mail solicitations, and such, so let me hit that for a second. Executive salaries in the NRA are not shabby. Agreed. They are, however, less than organizations like the Red Cross, AARP, and other not-for-profit .orgs of similar size, and you have to understand that NRA execs are limiting their future job options by taking that job. You’re not going from the NRA to Patagonia, REI, or ANY politically sensitive company. But… we can still do better, I think. There is a compensation review coming.

The organization has already slashed budgets by increasing efficiencies, cutting funding to major habitual contractors [like those that opperate NRA News], tightening up contracts in general, and all around tightening up the ship. The new Treasurer is a stud. Good things are happening as far as a fiduciary responsibility to the members, as the org knows there is a BIG fight coming in 2020. And rumors of things like cutting off coffee to staff are BS. They just went from a vendor, like many offices use, to a self-administered coffee mess…like many offices use. We have that here. I hate getting junk mail, but they produce results. I’d love to streamline the opt-out process for that, plus maybe knock off the renewal notices a month after you renew and things like that, and those are goals of mine, but we also need the cash and members to keep up the fight, and the mailings produce results. Is it enough to offset people who don’t renew to avoid the harassment? I don’t know…but I’d like to look at it. Help to recruit a few new members yourself, and that will help cut down on calls and mailings.

Anyway, this is a heck of a rant, but I’ve seen too much NRA bashing lately by those who don’t know what’s even going on in DC.

It’s a mess. I hate going there. But, the NRA is actually our best advocate there, regardless of what you think about some of the publicly stated positions. Making a press release that says, “We support repealing the NFA and doing away with the 4473 and all other remnants of GCA ’68,” doesn’t actually accomplish anything if you can’t produce results. It actually damages the ability to explain the real downsides of the issues that are at hand, with support, that need to be killed, because you won’t even get to talk to the people on the fence to make your case. Dems tend to ask for “common sense gun reform”, which we know means disarm America. Consider looking at NRA public statements through the same lens, in reverse. Maneuvering the swamp requires talking in less than absolute terms, even when behind the scenes, your goal is absolute. I have friends on the NRA staff. You’re not going to find more ardent supporters of the absolute, not to be infringed 2A than those people.

Danger Red Flag Warning
Red Flag Laws – Should Constitutional Rights be so easily infringed? Well if you take a look at the terms the NRA is talking about, it’s adding the poison pills that make it less appealing to Dems—you know, like due process, and penalties for false reports

One last note on red flag laws…If you take a look at the terms the NRA is talking about, it’s adding the poison pills that make it less appealing to Dems—you know, like due process, and penalties for false reports, which they are really trying to get around with these. There’s not a single person in the NRA building that wants red flag laws–because of the risk of abuse. But…saying “not one inch” and sending out emails saying how strong someone’s stance is (that doesn’t actually accomplish anything legislatively) gives the left free reign to build whatever narrative and language they want. With NRA “supporting” a full due process version, it actually drives hardcore Dems sour on an “NRA supported bill”—because they don’t actually want a bill to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill or dangerous people…there are trying to disarm regular Americans!

You may also see attempts to tie reciprocity or HPA to it, whether NRA supported, or just through the actions of Republicans. That’s not a “compromise” or “deal”–it’s trying to pull a Hughes amendment on the Dems. To kill just enough support from their hardcore that it starts to falter—while they work moderates and weak republicans behind the scenes on the real issues.

We’re actually in a really shitty spot with support for UBC and red flag laws in Congress, and without mechanisms like this, they’d pass a horrible version pretty handily in the house, and it is dangerously close in the Senate. If we have—God forbid—another shooting, it would sail through.

I don’t like any of this any more than the next guy, but people bash the NRA a lot without understanding the reality of how the silly reindeer games get played on the hill. Try to at least understand the value that the organization provides because it is big and very real, and critically important. I want a live tank in my front yard and mail order Solothurn S-18/1000’s from Bannerman’s. But the path to get there isn’t exactly a clear one in the current legislative environment. Without the strength of the NRA helping to pack the courts, shape elections the best we can, fight off bad legislation wherever possible and pave the way to improve rights through the judiciary (we’ve confirmed 85 federal judges in addition to the 2 Supremes with 130 more to go), I fear we won’t have a path to it at all. That’s why I’m a member of the NRA, and helping to make the organization as right as we can get it is why I got involved.

I get the frustration. I’m mad that we’re even in this situation. How could we, a republic, born from free men taking up arms against oppression, even be considering some of this nonsense? It baffles me. And, I used to be super frustrated with the NRA, also. Until…I was forced into being involved in politics and seeing how this whole mess works. Now I know what I have to do, and I hope everyone out there who cares about gun rights can get on board, too.

So, if you want to support GOA or FPC or FPC, or JPFO…that’s fantastic. Join your state organization, also. Be active locally. Let your elected representatives know how you feel on these issues regularly. But…be a member of the NRA, and be active. Vote. Let the board and the staff know where you stand on issues.

Help to be a part of the solution. If we, as gun owners, can’t stick together and take advantage of the strengths of all of our organizations where they can do the most good, we will lose this fight. I’m not willing to lose.


About Duane Liptak Jr

Duane Liptak Jr., is the the Executive Vice President of Magpul Industries. and a current NRA Board of Director.

Duane Liptak Afield
NRA Board Member and Magpul exec Duane Liptak
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    Glen Healey
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    Glen Healey

    Without THE NRA you MORONS would be throwing rocks .

    Steve Ramsey
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    Steve Ramsey

    Ammoland obviously wants to promote peace and cooperation between the NRA and it’s pr 2A critics with it’s choice of photos to uses as a header to this op-ed. And it is an op-ed. And I disagree with it. IF we actually have rights, then you cannot play ‘Let’s make a Deal’ with them. This is precisely what NRA does these day. It plays that game. Sorry fellas, my rights are not your play toy. You dropped the ball on national CCW and suppressors, when you had the grand opportunity. You gave us a regulatory bump stock ban, when the… Read more »

    JB Karns
    Guest
    JB Karns

    A hearty Amen.

    Well said and dead nuts on.

    Jeff
    Guest
    Jeff

    We need STRONG organizations to defend gun rights in all levels of gov’t including the NRA. Quiting the NRA doesn’t help. If all the NRA members also would support the other orgs it would multiply their strength. If we had several with the NRA’s membership numbers we would win more battles. Signing up a friend would do a lot of good as well.

    The Revelator
    Guest
    The Revelator

    @Jeff Sorry, but not quitting the NRA doesn’t help either. Right now the only thing that is going to force them to change is once their pocket book is hurting enough and they realize that if they do not change their little play house is going to fall apart. We will not rejoin until after they fix the problems we have outlined countless times over the last decade. We are tired of promises that mimic the Democrats on border Security “Give in to us now and send us a check, and we will give you something in return later.” that… Read more »

    DaveW
    Guest
    DaveW

    The NRA only has a reported 5-6 million members out of an estimated 120 million gun owners. First, that should say something to the NRA leadership. We need more numbers. They don’t have to be NRA members. They don’t have to agree with all the NRA agenda. They just need to be visible. How about the NRA going to the great numbers of gun clubs, associations, etc., and co-ordinate mutual actions (like demonstrations)? We are fractured, as evidenced by the mix of comments herein. The left loves nothing better than to divide and conquer. To that end they pit group… Read more »

    Nottinghill
    Guest
    Nottinghill

    The NRA is preventing and impeding that which no one wants but knows is inevitable. The “2A” represents not firearms but freedom indelibly linked. Something which cannot ever be separated by a free people and that of their descendants. We ALL here understand that when the “2A” has been eroded, so has a living piece of our body, when those freedoms have been taken from us. We are not whole. This is here for a reason; ―When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another… Read more »

    The Revelator
    Guest
    The Revelator

    @Nottinghill

    Indeed. There are those who would argue with us though and try to tell us that we “just don’t understand the political landscape.” Thanks for quoting the Founders.

    David Gray
    Guest
    David Gray

    1. I’d like to know the reason that all major 2A organizations ignore the most important first 13 words in the 2A. A “well regulated Militia” (age 17 to 45, or higher) is aimed at near-universal armament and training by law of every “able-bodied” adult (the vast majority of “we the people”) then in 1791 & 150+ yrs prior in the Colonies then independent States, “being necessary to the security of a free State” (2A). 2. I’d like to know the reason the NRA is no longer assisting Americans “to serve effectively in the appropriate militia for the common defense… Read more »

    Carl B
    Guest
    Carl B

    So months later after the cries to ban bump stocks have died away and people have started looking on the Parkland students as kids instead of martyrs, why did Trump, Magpul and the NRA decide now was the time to put Slidefire out of business? This is purely politics. The Dems have the house now and Trump is signalling that he and the “2A” lobby are willing to make a deal or two. Screwing over the common man is what the Democrats live for and selling out his loyalty is an old Trump tactic. The bottom line is the GOP… Read more »

    Will Flatt
    Guest
    Will Flatt

    What an unmitigated truckload of PURE BULL EXCREMENT. This “statement” only confirms what we already know about Negotiating Rights Away and their mentality. THIS IS WHY WE REJECT NRA TOTALLY AND GO WITH OTHER ORGS. And also, WHAT A HUGE COLLECTION OF LIES AND ARROGANCE! The NRA IS NOT the ‘only’ game in town. In fact, it is widely recognized that the GOA is the heavier hitter in DC than the NRA. The media knows it because the Demonrats have said so! PHUCK THE NRA, THE HORSE IT RODE IN ON, AND THE FUDDS THAT DEFEND IT TO THE LAST… Read more »

    Colonialgirl
    Guest
    Colonialgirl

    Been a leftist bloomburg troll long and how much is he paying you to spew your load of idiocy?

    DaveW
    Guest
    DaveW

    Well put!

    Enkidu
    Guest
    Enkidu

    Well said Will.

    Kevin
    Guest
    Kevin

    Just joined GOA after doing a little research. They seem to be much more aligned with my views. My NRA membership is up. I’ve had enough. I will not renew it.

    Martin
    Guest
    Martin

    Duane Liptak while I see your points on bump stock, GCA 68, etal however these are still wins for the anti gun people. It is the death of a thousands little cuts. It is time to stop using their framing of the arguments and letting them set the terms of the discussion and agenda. First and formost if you are not willing to get in the mud pit and fight you already have lost. I have found it pretty easy to throw these people off their game. I refuse to let them set the framing. It is time to stop… Read more »

    NRA Life Member
    Guest
    NRA Life Member

    With 76 members of the Board of Directors, only very few of them reformers, and only very few reformers on the ballot, it could take decades to vote in a majority of reformers. People also can vote with thier wallet and feet, and they do!

    Ricardo Riostirado
    Guest
    Ricardo Riostirado

    Duane Liptak,
    I think it is clear that all you have accomplished with your article is to cement what most of us already knew. That the NRA is tone deaf to what gun owners been telling the NRA for years, stop compromising, stop playing a Chest Game when all you know to play is marvels.
    You prove to all of us the the NRA is in the Erin course and unwilling to change!!

    Kennith Franklin
    Guest
    Kennith Franklin

    So, I an going to assume that you are using voice to text. The politics of of lobbying is not as simplistic as “we refuse to yield!”. The chest (chess) game must be played in order to have the most desirable outcome. It is all about strategy. Unfortunately, you are not helping the long game.

    Colonialgirl
    Guest
    Colonialgirl

    Look MA more trolls from the left.

    David jones
    Guest
    David jones

    Chest?…marvels? You’re not from around here are you boy?

    Brad
    Guest
    Brad

    PISS ON THE NRA. My money goes to GOA 2AF CCRKBA JPFO

    Rivahmitch
    Guest
    Rivahmitch

    Don’t overlook NAGR as well.

    SPARTACUS
    Guest
    SPARTACUS

    The problem lies more with membership stagnation and non growth. Let’s use two #s as a static example. Let’s make the bald assumption there are @ 140 million guns owners in America. It’s probably much more, because democrats have the “for me, but not for thee” attitude. Of those 140M, only 6 Million gun owners are NRA members, a paltry 4.2 % of the total of gun owners in America. What does the NRA do? Try to expand it’s membership? Try to get a larger overall membership? No, it HOUNDS the HARASSES the current members mercilessly, for more and more… Read more »

    Sarg
    Guest
    Sarg

    I gave four years of my life to defend the bill of rights. The NRA does nothing to help me in the Chicago war zone.I live in fear of a second armed revolt

    Tcfelty
    Guest
    Tcfelty

    Stand together for that one cause that we believe in or we will fall and loss it all. I for one will not fall and will not give in to these people. That statement. Cold Dead Hands means something to me and I for one will uphold it to the end. For my family. My kids and grandkids. They will be taught the way I was taught.

    Rivahmitch
    Guest
    Rivahmitch

    Completely agree. Those who are unwilling to kill and die to defend their rights and freedoms will inevitably and deservedly lose them ALL. Semper Fi!!

    michael bishop
    Guest
    michael bishop

    SEMPER FI BUD…Well said from theis old Army & USAF Vietnam pilot……2 tours………..

    Douglas G
    Guest
    Douglas G

    Isn’t it just like Whiner’s to whine about the pictures used in the article and blame the NRA for it? LOL Really?

    The Revelator
    Guest
    The Revelator

    @Douglas G

    I don’t know Douglas. Kinda like Trump supporters who whine when people have problems with their candidate not being conservative and being unable to vote for him. Then the Trump supporters cry and try to blame real conservatives for the Democrat wins in the house, and if Trump loses in 2020.

    Isnt it just like that? 🙂

    Fred
    Guest
    Fred

    I asked Christ Cox; “When will the NRA demand the immediate and total repeal of all gun laws in the US?” He said; “Just as soon as we get enough republicans elected.”

    He’s a liar.

    JoeUSooner
    Guest
    JoeUSooner

    THERE is a non-sequitur, if ever one existed.

    His answer falls under the categories of sane, logical, reasonable, and practical… so how on earth do you jump to the conclusion – based only upon his rational answer – that he’s in some way lying?

    The Revelator
    Guest
    The Revelator

    Does it Joe? Look at it this way. Republicans told us “Vote us in and we will repeal Obama Care, like we have been voting for for 5 years straight.” We voted them in and what did they do? They said “We are pro second amendment, we will fight to keep the Second Amendment from being infringed! Vote for us.” We voted and they managed to pass and advocate for more Gun Control than the Democrats have been able to achieve nationally since the expiration of the Brady ban back in 2004. Based on history, how can we trust him… Read more »

    Michael
    Guest
    Michael

    I supposed my first question would be, “Where’d you get the pic of a crying Wayne LaPierre?” Second question would be, “Did you really think referring to us as a bunch of crybabies would succeed with anything except pissing a whole bunch of us off?” But oh, I get it, you were just trying to pull one of those mind games on us that the NRA “supposedly” does on members of Congress when we want to achieve results? But I’m seeing lots of failures not many results, unless, of course, you’re talking about Red Flag Laws and the bumpstock ban… Read more »

    Colonialgirl
    Guest
    Colonialgirl

    YOu just proved that your are incapable of reading and then you moan becaue they used YOUR pictures at the top of the page.

    Roy D.
    Guest
    Roy D.

    Don’t you have a sandwich you need to be making?

    NRA/ GOA LIFE MEMBER
    Guest
    NRA/ GOA LIFE MEMBER

    When the survival of the institution becomes more important than the people it was created to serve…Tyranny has set in…

    When will we pursuit and demand treason charges against state and federal elected officials, who write and sponsor a bill against our US Constitution?

    Don't Poke the Bear
    Guest
    Don't Poke the Bear

    The NRA is not the mother bear it portrays itself to be, trying to protect us cubs. A mother bear doesn’t give up ground when it comes across a threat to it’s cubs, it doesn’t say here “take one of my cubs and please spare the rest”, she doesn’t size up the threat or try to out strategize it, she certainly does not sit down for a game of chess. The mother bear postures up and let’s out a ferocious growl, giving the threat one chance to hightail it out of there before charging. The NRA is more like an… Read more »

    Enough
    Guest
    Enough

    I will never again join the NRA. There are other activist groups that are serious about our 2A rights, not executive salaries
    and hiring people that sell Super-Beets on the side.

    Life NRA Member
    Guest
    Life NRA Member

    Your money, spend as you like. When it comes to The most Hard Core 2A lady that uses that product, That company supports 2A and from some of Profits Makes donations to NRA and Alike… Being Salty about the NRA is your Problem. NRA Does more for it’s 6 million members… If your so hung up on money makers, Look at Plan Parent Hood.

    B
    Guest
    B

    From what I can tell we are in agreement on all the issues that relate to 2a rights, and gun legislation. These are the issues that should pretty much be the extent of the nra’s message or “business” for lack of a better word. My shit talking on the nra extends to their over extension into off topic, and partisan political issues. The gun debate is volatile enough without intentionally tying religion, and every other hot button partisan issue to the organization that’s goal is to protect the 2nd amendment. More than 65% of the citizenry supports individual 2a rights… Read more »

    Justista
    Guest
    Justista

    Let’s make it simple. If it were not for the NRA you would have lost the right to to have a gun in any fashion.

    Roy D.
    Guest
    Roy D.

    That’s the comment I would expect from a simpleton.

    Michael
    Guest
    Michael

    I agree with you Roy. We never had any rights that are specifically attributed to the NRA – to the contrary, we got our rights to own guns 100% from the Second Amendment, and NO group should ever trade-off those rights simply because they say we’ll be better off if we do.

    Animal
    Guest
    Animal

    We have the NRA to thank for the fed background check to begin with!!!! They lobbied for it!!!! That violates our rights to begin with!!!

    Colonialgirl
    Guest
    Colonialgirl

    ANd the whole lot of ignorant morons spew their load of asinine stupidity and lack of knowledge about the truth and facts about the NRA.
    Back to voting Obama/Hillary and leftist anti-gunners for you

    Laddyboy
    Guest
    Laddyboy

    Michael; One correction in an otherwise very good comment which I agree with. We the People do NOT get any Rights from the Second Amendment. God, the Creator, gave us these RIGHTS. The Second Amendment only SECURES or REAFFIRMS the RIGHTS God gave us when the Constitution and the following 10 Amendments were written. Our Forefathers understood that We had these RIGHTS BEFORE the Constitution was put to
    animal skin(paper).

    tms_associates
    Guest
    tms_associates

    No, Michael, our right to own guns or other weapons does not come from the Constitution. The founding fathers recognized the natural right to self defense and put the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution in the Bill of Rights to ensure the federal government did not infringe that natural right. Unfortunately the “progressives” ignored their oath and the constitution in passing the NFA first and later the GCA68. Neither Act did anything to reduce crime but did significantly impact everyday law abiding citizens like you and I. If there is any truth to the book “Gun Control: Gateway to Tyranny”… Read more »

    Thomas Power
    Guest
    Thomas Power

    What are the NRA Wins?
    Not holding actions that kept bad bills from being passed.
    Not watered down bills that could have lost us even more.

    What are the actual NRA wins at the federal level that restored any freedom to us?

    State level losses look to be piling up much faster than wins. Too many of the state wins were won without NRA involvement.

    I’m an NRA life member and competitive shooter.
    NRA support for gun related activities outside of politics seems to be drying up…

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    Duane: Here’s a legal opinion for you from another Ammoland column and a question from me: Why hasn’t NRA sued Trump & ATF or joined in the suit over Bump Stocks?

    https://www.ammoland.com/2019/01/what-if-anything-has-congress-done-to-curb-possession-of-bump-stocks/

    Trump has really damaged our Rights. And you’re relying on the courts? Why did NRA even let it get this far let alone endorse it?

    Dr. Strangelove
    Guest
    Dr. Strangelove

    I support most of the 2A groups, especially the SAF. I’m a life member of the NRA, and although they are flawed, they are still the big dog in DC that the politicians listen to. There is a lot of public name recognition, too. I have hats and t-shirts from various groups, but when I want to lead people to believe that I’m armed, NRA gear is definitely the way to go.

    JDC
    Guest
    JDC

    Many thanks to Mr. Liptak and Magpul Industries for being eloquent defenders of the 2A. I understand your message and to an extent, agree…support as many 2A organizations as your time and budget allow. Some wonderful comments here by members expressing the “why” they are angry about the NRA…a good portion of that is the NRA board circling the wagons against members when they do something dumb. Your membership is telling you that you’re tone deaf, and your position is to sing louder? Hmmm. THAT doesn’t work. Off key and loud just annoys people, and that is what the NRA… Read more »

    Greg K
    Guest
    Greg K

    “Some wonderful comments here by members expressing the “why” they are angry about the NRA…a good portion of that is the NRA board circling the wagons against members when they do something dumb. Your membership is telling you that you’re tone deaf, and your position is to sing louder? Hmmm. THAT doesn’t work. Off key and loud just annoys people, and that is what the NRA has been doing more and more lately.” <—–Excellent paragraph. Get's to the heart of why people pay for advocacy! I would add that it's about a 10-1 ratio, not just here, but across all… Read more »

    Old Marine
    Guest
    Old Marine

    Oldmarine >>> Duane Liptak I am a member of the NRA but find that it’s efficiency is lacking. Looking at a performance evaluation of the NRA against other 2nd defenders the NRA falls short of accomplishing success. It’s hard to explain all of the feelings of members but this is an attempt. 1. Members are upset at the NRA over several issues but seem to be ignored by the board and members want results. Donations will keep falling because of this. 2. Lobbing in Washington does some good but the NRA Tactics is completely Off track if it hopes to… Read more »

    Duane liptak
    Guest
    Duane liptak

    Semper Fi. I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Please understand that I’m absolutely not saying that the NRA is good to go, as is. I absolutely think that change needs to continue, as some good things have started happening, IMO. All I’m saying is that we all should be working constructively to that end.

    tomcat
    Guest
    tomcat

    @ JDC Your comment, I quote ” it appears that our NRA is becoming more like the politicians we detest” is very factual. Funny thing is they hear us but it doesn’t register in their brains or boardroom. That is the first step to a business going in the sh!tter, to close their mind and ears to the customers.

    Dean Weingarten
    Member

    Duane is correct. I have watched these issues and been an NRA member, trainer, and activist for over 40 years. We need the NRA. The NRA has changed dramatically in the last 20 years. It has been forced to become far more aggressive, winning many battles. If you look at the actual history of the NFA, GCA68 and the Huges Amendment in 1986, the NRA did a fair job of a tactical retreat. Maybe they could have done better, but they kept us from being totally defeated. FDR wanted to treat handguns in the NFA the same as machine guns.… Read more »

    Greg K
    Guest
    Greg K

    Well Dean, that sounds wonderful…About 5 years ago I had the opportunity to briefly lead a Tea Group. Within that group we had some very vocal, passionate 2nd Amendment supporters. Not only that we had Branco, and a real life Constitutional Attorney to draw from. It is Washington State, and I attempted to Contact Jeff “somebody” about 4 times to no avail. He was leading Washington State headlong into the Gun Control Abyss. Look at us now…you would have to do a lot to renew our faith in your operations. In fact, it has become common talk on the streets… Read more »

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    Duane: As with most I suspect you have the purest of intentions. However, when you start talking about deals made and motivations you need to go all the way back to 1979-1980. I’ve rehashed this, Jeff Knox has rehashed this till we’re both blue in the face and I’m not going to do it again. The NRA, in recent events, could have told President Trump “if you push for ANY type of firearms restrictions we will downgrade you in the next election to an F and that will cost you two million votes”. Trump did not win the popular vote.… Read more »

    Roy D.
    Guest
    Roy D.

    What was it that Trump told Feinstein? “You don’t need to be afraid of the NRA.” Maybe he knew something the rest of us didn’t know.

    WAYNE Clark
    Guest
    WAYNE Clark

    Well, Dwayne Liptek Jr., I bet that didn’t go exactly the way you invisioned it to,,,or maybe it did. You’ve already insinuated those that disagree with your viewpoint as crybabies; which, i must attest, is a very Liberal stab at garnering someone’s attention. Looks like you got it! All this bolstering about the “chess like moves” the NRA is using to gain second amendment support from the suits, is nothing more than disguising the errors they have made multiple times that have damaged our freedom of RTKBA WITHOUT infringement. To say the NRA is posturing for a foothold for a… Read more »

    Robert Lucas
    Guest
    Robert Lucas

    The Truth has not been told about Las Vegas.
    They continue to create new firearm laws on their lying agendas.
    Good Luck and God Bless Everyone

    Silas Dogood
    Guest
    Silas Dogood

    @Duane Liptak 1.”with an understanding of the current political landscape.” 2. “we can’t beat the disarm-America-movement, because they are more than willing to get together to achieve our ruin.” 3. “I wish the NRA could yell “Shall not be infringed,” from the mountaintops.” 4. “One last note on red flag laws…If you take a look at the terms the NRA is talking about, it’s adding the poison pills that make it less appealing to Dems, like due process” Duane, actions speak louder than words. I read the entire article and gave it a fair chance, you deserved at least that… Read more »

    Ricardo Riostirado
    Guest
    Ricardo Riostirado

    Superb point and explanation

    tomcat
    Guest
    tomcat

    @ Silas Dogood You blistered the NRA with facts. A very good post and if that doesn’t open some eyes, nothing will and they will falter and fail.

    David Bradford
    Guest
    David Bradford

    Thank you my good Sir, you saved me a lot of typing. I agree 100%. Until the NRA has made substantial changes in its management, practices and has demonstrated that it is listening to the concerns of its members, not one more penny from this current member.

    Howard
    Guest
    Howard

    Information is key. I live in philly and only time you ever hear the nra is in a negative light. The nra needs to get in the big cities. They need to be present and informative. The need active programs in the big cities that actually get ppl intrested in shooting sport. Boy scouts used to be a great introduction but they are a joke now in the cities. You need big city folks to see firearms in a positive light not just redneck toys or tools of mass shootings

    Scott in Atlanta
    Guest
    Scott in Atlanta

    If I concede every point in this article, I still despise the NRA. In my home state of Georgia, their corruption is on full display. They mete out A+ ratings to anti-gun politicians who work nonstop to stifle any meaningful 2nd Amendment legislation introduced in the state legislature, and when we – the membership who pays their paychecks – ask why, we are met with stone cold silence and arrogance that should not and will not be tolerated in any circumstance. For example, Speaker of the House David Ralston – the most repugnant anti-2nd Amendment reptile imaginable – just days… Read more »

    Robert Thomas
    Guest
    Robert Thomas

    Comments are funny to read. Numerous people “swearing off the NRA”, blah, blah, blah. There’s an old adage, it called “cutting off your nose to spite your face”. Supposedly there are 80-100 million gun owners in the US. How is it then we are being marginalized and pushed aside? 5 million NRA members. Like it or not, the NRA is the loudest voice in Washington. If half the gun owners of the country joined, they would be unstoppable. There is NO alternative. Zip, zilch, nada. What other organization is going to have the reach they do? There isn’t one. There… Read more »

    Heed the Call-up
    Guest
    Heed the Call-up

    Robert Thomas, when the NRA agrees with bumo stock bans, red flag laws, etc., not to mention their past, 1934, 1968, 1986, 1994, etc., how are we cutting off our nose? They are not fighting. They do a lot of begging for money, but when push comes to shove, they roll-over like a trained dog. How is that a good option?

    David Bradford
    Guest
    David Bradford

    Agreed. With friends like the NRA, who needs enemies?

    Pete Fasanello
    Guest
    Pete Fasanello

    How many of these arm chair quarter backs that whine about he NRA do anything on their own?
    I dare say most of them just sit and bitch .

    Robert Thomas
    Guest
    Robert Thomas

    Same idiots that will claim to “take up arms in the street” should it come it.

    Charlie Foxtrot
    Guest
    Charlie Foxtrot

    Well, one thing is clear, those “armchair quarterbacks” are withholding their donations from the NRA and sending them to the GOA, FPC and SAF instead.

    Charles Knight
    Guest
    Charles Knight

    I doubt the “armchair quarterbacks” contribute to “any” gun rights group. They “contribute” noise!
    My wife and I are both Patriot Life members and have contributed to NRA for 20+ years. NRA is the best chance we have of slowing the anti-gun agenda.
    “Stand for something, or fall for anything.” Alexander Hamilton (paraphrased)
    I chose to “Stand with the NRA”!

    David Bradford
    Guest
    David Bradford

    While you’re standing on that hill, you need to look around for your NRA officers. You won’t see them there because they have left the battlefield after deciding that the hill you stand on is not worth fighting for anymore. They are currently meeting with the enemy to offer surrender the ground you stand on. Time to roll up that flag and look for another brigade to join up with if you intend to stay in the fight.

    Hoplite
    Guest
    Hoplite

    They are mostly Hillary style Democrat/Russian trolls masquerading as Americans.

    Heed the Call-up
    Guest
    Heed the Call-up

    Pete, “most of us” here on this site are politically active and do more that “sit and bitch” – read the posts. And I suspect, like me, many belong to more than just the NRA. The NRA is good at one thing – begging for donations. What have you done?

    JB Karns
    Guest
    JB Karns

    Even if true, having and holding to actual principles and core beliefs on fundamental essential liberty is far better than supporting those who do not and who erode and undermine these things right in your face. Psst…that would be the Quisling NRA and its Fuddites and sycophantic defenders.

    Standing opposed to subversive people and organizations, even if only ‘bitching from one’s armchair’ does far more to bolster fundamental liberty than what you and the Quisling NRA suggest.

    Just so you know. Oh, and BFYTW.

    Rick
    Guest
    Rick

    TL:DR, but, I got the jist and no. I don’t believe that the NRA is working effectively for pro-rights people. If it were a regular business, it might well have collapsed by now.

    I’m tired of hearing “if we didn’t do what we did, it would hav3 been worse”. That’s no longer acceptable.

    Thanks for your efforts. You could have made your points in fewer words and saved yourself some time.

    Abandoned the nra. Now supports the GOA
    Guest
    Abandoned the nra. Now supports the GOA

    Sir you used a crybaby picture to depict former nra members.
    Great start.
    You (Magpul) turned tail and ran out of my state instead of holding fast and fighting for our constitutional rights.
    Thanks for abandoning us crybabies yet we still support your company.
    None of the infringements in American states should’ve ever passed with the funding the all mighty nra possesses if they are “The only voice in Washington.”
    Get off your arses and put an end to the bump stock, magazine, and red flag “laws” and you might see donations coming back.

    Dr. Strangelove
    Guest
    Dr. Strangelove

    @ Abandoned: I would encourage every firearms manufacturer to move from commie states to freer ones. Lewis Machine is moving from IL to IA, just as I did. People need to pick battles that they can win.

    Abandoned the nra. Now supports the GOA 
    Guest
    Abandoned the nra. Now supports the GOA 

    I will fight to protect my home in spite of those who want to change the governing of my state.
    What happens when Iowa gets taken over by progressives?
    Where do you move to when all 50 states succumb to the globalist agenda?
    We need to fight for every inch of this nation from border to border.
    This is a battle we must win!

    Thomas J
    Guest
    Thomas J

    You can say whatever you want, the game is up, people are on to the controlled opposition con the NRA is. I will NEVER give a penny to the nra ever again, i want an organization that fights like a rabid dog, not stupid 12d chess with waaaay overpaid executives. I find it laughable they are trotting you out here as if, “hey everyone liked magpul” no, judt stop, screw you GOA, FAPC het my money from now on, rust in peace NRA, and i agree with otgers, we are way past a political solution, its time for blood

    Thomas J
    Guest
    Thomas J

    Holy spell check lol sorry

    Oldvet
    Guest
    Oldvet

    Ditto…I am a life member , I suppose I will keep it . There will not be another dollar given to them . I have blocked all phone numbers they use to call me , I don’t bother to even open any envelopes they send .

    Mr. Liptak please open your eyes
    Guest
    Mr. Liptak please open your eyes

    Mr. Liptak, Take the time to hear the people who bought your company’s products, elected you to the board, and work for you on board committees. At least, trust but verify, don’t you owe that much. – The retirement plan was shut down – No cost of living adjustments again this year – More cuts in actual shooting programs – the ones where regular people train and compete around the country – Security watches the staff so they won’t get to you to tell you these truth. Do you really think producing a few more angry videos is a fair… Read more »

    scott
    Guest
    scott

    I agree we need the NRA , We would be long ago been sunk with out them . No one has the political clout they have and if any think there is an other organization that has that political muscle to stem the tide against us gunowers I’ve yet to see it happen. Yes there are other smaller organizations that have yet to be as effective in any legal pursuits , We in the gun community are very good at eating our own. We need to be united like the left is and stop vilifying what is our best and… Read more »

    Matt in Oklahoma
    Guest
    Matt in Oklahoma

    It’s as simple as this: I payed the NRA to do something and they didn’t.
    You can disrespect me with your crybaby picture but facts are facts. If you think that picture is going to win anyone back to the NRA along with your expert explanation then you need mental help.

    time to fight is near
    Guest
    time to fight is near

    [email protected]#$ the NRA! The second amendment foundation has done more to protect against draconian gun laws then the NRA could ever dream of, and in a no compromise fashion. Until the NRA adopts the saying “no compromise” they don’t get one cent from me or anyone else I known. Join the second amendment foundation it’s a better organization for protecting 2A

    Molon labe

    Pete
    Guest
    Pete

    DITTO

    Rev. R Vincent Warde
    Guest
    Rev. R Vincent Warde

    Hi Duane, I facilitate a small group of clergy who support the 2A, and my wife and I are slowly paying off life memberships. I too agree with most of what you said. The NRA simply cannot be replaced overnight by any other gun rights group. It can be reformed, it must be reformed, because we cannot be effective without it. You are also correct that sometimes we must give ground because failure to do so would cause greater loss. Having said all of that, here are my concerns: 1) Executive salaries. Sorry, but they are simply too high. I… Read more »

    Neil
    Guest
    Neil

    We have been giving ground since the 50’s. when you regularly give ground year after year you eventually you find yourself backed up to the cliff.

    Douglas G
    Guest
    Douglas G

    Carry Guard is a completely different plan from what CCWSafe offers and cannot be compared. However, Carry Guard CAN be compared with USCCA and Second Call Defense. See this comparison by ConcealedCarry.com https://www.concealedcarry.com/self-defense-gun-owner-insurance-programs-compared/.
    I too have CCWSafe for the very reason you stated and agree that Carry Guard has issues.

    Mike
    Guest
    Mike

    Duane Liptak,

    Thank You for responding with your comments. I guess you knew that you were stepping into a hornet’s nest and I tip my hat to you for at least doing that.

    I agree with you that the situation on Crapitol Hill isn’t perfect. But, I’m through compromising with those scurrilous bastards. I’m DONE with Congress and their jackbooted thugs who enforce their unconstitutional laws that incrementally disarm The People. By golly, it’s OUR government, not THEIR government. At least, that’s how the Founding Fathers intended for it to be.

    No More Compromise

    Nottinghill
    Guest
    Nottinghill

    Now I hear the childhood voices of the adults from Charlie Brown. Womp, womp, womp womp!!!!! The apologists for the NRA are growing. Just like the ones for Trump. That’s not my boot on your face. It just feels like it. NRA and ‘2A Politics’ for 60+ decades has been sex without completion for the 2A community. It only feels good in the beginning when you give them your money and say I do. I wish I hadn’t. “…NSSF was trying to kill it. NRA was trying to kill it.” ??????????????????????????? We represent the lollipop guild, the lollipop guild!!! Are… Read more »

    Aaron Wilbers
    Guest
    Aaron Wilbers

    And if suppose they accept the NRA poison pill because they know most prosecutors, especially liberal ones in major cities like LA, NYC, Chicago, St. Louis, etc will never prosecute over a false claim in order to “not frighten future people who are scared and want to come forward…” as already happens in cases with false claims of sexual assault. Due process? So having to hire expensive legal representation and go prove your innocence is due process? You aren’t willing to lose? You already gave up.

    JMR
    Guest
    JMR

    Yea you’re real effective protecting our rights.

    Give me a break.

    Greg
    Guest
    Greg

    Well Duane it’s time you learn “Incrementalism.” It’s taught in 301 Poli Sci and in 101 Enviro Sci. Yep, it is a mainstay of the progressive toolbox. Get a broad based law on the books and chip away at the edges until the whole Bill of Rights is violated. You should have learned this already with the GCA of 1968, which you yourself mentioned, but we see it virtually every legislative act. As to the future…”Red Flag Laws – Should Constitutional Rights be so easily infringed? Well if you take a look at the terms the NRA is talking about,… Read more »

    NRA Life Member
    Guest
    NRA Life Member

    The AARP 990s can be found here: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/951985500/201702999349301675/IRS990. The NRA executive salaries are higher, in relative and absolute terms. The AARP has an annual revenue of up to $1.5B and a CEO compensation of up to $1M (0.07% of revenue). In 2015, the NRA had an annual revenue of $360M and Wayne LaPierre had a compensation of over $5M (1.3% of revenue). Since the NRA execs seem to have a lifetime appointment, any argument about risking their future is nonsensical. Wayne and Chris can safely retire anytime they want with the money they made through the NRA. Besides the corruption… Read more »

    Roy D.
    Guest
    Roy D.

    Though you cant see it, I am holding my hand toward you with the palm facing you. The problem is you, the NRA, didn’t even try to fight the battle. Go sell crazy somewhere else, we’re full up around here!

    Clark Kent
    Guest
    Clark Kent

    Amigo, if you believe the current situation in the USA will be solved through the political process you have funny ice cubes in your drinks. We are way past a political solution. ‘Soap box, ballot box, cartridge box’ – Abraham Lincoln.

    Joseph P Martin
    Guest
    Joseph P Martin

    Agreed. The way to effect change in a healthy functioning political system is to work from within following the rules and guidelines legally. However, when the system is so corrupt and broken and cannot be repaired, such as ours, then the only recourse it to throw it out, tear it down and rebuild it from the bottom up, or go back to the drawing board and start over again from the beginning (Constitution). People forget that this nation was founded on a revolution and the career politicians today are the equivalent of the British Aristocracy in the 1700’s, something the… Read more »

    Dave in Fairfax
    Editor
    Dave in Fairfax

    It wasn’t the Constitution shredding President who said that.
    “There are three and only three ways to reform our Congressional legislation, familiarly called, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box.” Stephen Decatur Miller, Stateburg, South Carolina in September 1830.

    Clark Kent
    Guest
    Clark Kent

    Lincoln did not shred the Constitution. And, yes, he did say that. Nice try; no cigar.

    Frank Stile
    Guest
    Frank Stile

    It’s the NRA that commands the respect (and fear) of our lawmakers. Stand together or we’ll fall together. NRA Benefactor member.

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