Oregon Gun Safety Bill Hearing Scheduled But It Still Needs Work

Opinion

Eddie Eagle
Oregon Gun Safety Bill Hearing Scheduled But It Still Needs Work

Oregon – -(AmmoLand.com)- Senate Bill 801 has been scheduled for a hearing on March 27th at 1PM in Hearing Room B in the Capitol. The Senate Committee on Education is hearing the bill.

The bill allows (but does not require) public and private schools to have a 30 minute class on firearm safety and accident prevention for first graders.

The class must be taught by a teacher, administrator, law enforcement agent or “first responder.” None of these people are required to be firearms instructors. “First responder” is not defined in the bill.

While the bill specifies what the curriculum must include, ie:

  • (a) The proper steps a student should take upon encountering an unsecured firearm;
  • (b) The differences between video game violence and real-life violence; and
  • (c) The dangers of confusing toy guns and real guns.

– it does not have a prepared curriculum so this is left up to whoever is teaching the class.

While supportive of safety training for children, we believe that people who teach firearms safety should have a background in teaching firearms safety. There are probably not a lot of first-grade teachers with this kind of training.

This bill has enormous potential and the people behind it are dedicated to keeping kids safe, but it needs some work. We look forward to amendments to make this well-intentioned bill truly effective.


Oregon Firearms FederationAbout Oregon Firearms Federation:

The Oregon Firearms Federation has proven itself to be Oregon's only no compromise lobbying group, OFF takes the same tough stands and serves as a vehicle for educating gun owners, promoting their rights and when necessary, fighting the freedom haters in court. Visit: www.oregonfirearms.org

  • 37 thoughts on “Oregon Gun Safety Bill Hearing Scheduled But It Still Needs Work

    1. @ Rev,

      Thanks,
      I’ve had some of those long days to stretch my resolve, and bring growth.
      I enjoyed the dialog too.. What’s in a Name? 🙂 I’ve got nothing else left to lose now, but my life. Unashamed!
      You have a very good understanding of the scripture. Far more than I grasp, I think too!
      To expand a little more on actions.. It takes it out of the realm of mere religion vs. a Born again relationship, when we hear the Lord speak and obey.. That’s what all the faith, works-action-obedience vs. disobedience-sin-death means to me.
      The spirit of religion tries to force our actions upon the written word of the Lord-being read/preached in the churches.. A big difference. It creates false apostles, prophets, brethren.. go and preach… etc…
      Make no mistake either, people. They are spiritual, but the Lord tells us not to believe every spirit too!
      The Lord will never scold you for asking, if a spirit manifesting is Him self, or a devil in disguise. He told us to ask/try them!

      I have had to ask the Lord many hard questions, and not blindly follow… To be content as the Lily of the Valley.. to be myself.
      I have to stop and ask myself/the Lord often, if I am getting off track in writing my experiences, and opinions here… or anything, anywhere else too!

      Consider entering into the Promised Land, How the spies’ reports given to the people, led to the unbelieving/disobedient dying in the wilderness. With out faith/hearing/obedience, it is impossible to please Him.
      They didn’t hear, believe, and obey.. They didn’t walk in/by Faith/obedience. Their faith died…

      It gets Real, when you discover that without faith, it is impossible to please Him.. Faith comes from hearing.. what is not of faith is sin.
      And learn to wait, Did the Lord tell you to do this, to do that, to go here, or there.. ?
      When you can sit at His feet and be content, and wait on Him to tell you to go and do something..
      To sacrifice/deny self, all that you hold dear, abandoned to His will! Martha vs. Mary!
      The Lord tells us, the Children of the Lord, are led by His Spirit!
      Like Peter.. What’s that to you, follow me!

      Abraham is a good example too. He heard the Lord and obeyed. He set out to sacrifice his son, but the Lord provided the Lamb instead, and stopped his hand. Abraham trusted and believed, and told his son while on the altar as well.

      I’ve been given a dream from the Lord, that only He can bring to pass. If He doesn’t build it, I will labor in vain.
      It forces me to wait and follow too…

      .. Liberty, or Death!

    2. If I lived in Oregon, I believe I might think about moving out of state due to the stupid New York/Kalifornia crap laws they are pushing (and unfortunately passing). It’s only going to get worse and do absolutely nothing to affect a criminal’s ability to use a firearm for bad things. Also unfortunately, I live in Washington and the westside liberals are on the same track as Oregon … God forbid. We will be fighting I-1639 in the courts for months even though it is obvious it flies in the face of the US and Washington State Constitutions. This is a “litigious” world we live in these days even when it is obvious a law is wrong. The system is busted and it’ll never get fixed when an individual opinion from a judicial bench is swayed by personal opinion. Molon Labe …

    3. At the same time, actual registration of firearms in Oregon is being proposed, along with the usual ban on “assault weapons,” and a magazine capacity limit of FIVE. I have no idea what they propose to do with revolvers that hold six rounds. Also included are provisions to result in the closure of all outdoor ranges by making the county in which a range is located liable for anyone hit by a round that leaves the range. Most ranges exist under “special use” permits which can be revoked at any time, and no county will be willing to bear this liability.

      The anti-gunners smell blood, and they are coming after us in the name of the atrocities that have occurred recently, despite the fact that non one of their proposals would have prevented any of the atrocities, whereas allowing the victims to have been armed likely would have prevented the attacks or limited their damage. But, hey, when did fact or reality make a difference to a liberal?

    4. When i was in grade school,every year about a month after school started a missouri dept of conservation came to schools with several diffrent guns and showed us gun safety.
      Too bad that program ended

    5. Heed the Call-up,
      Yes, I would agree fully that a CFI would be required to teach. That reminds me that I need to sign up for two courses at the gun store/shooting range here. Our state has just signed off on constitutional carry effective in November.

    6. Ladies and Gentlemen, I submit to you Green Watch Dogs reply.

      Poor guy just doesn’t know when he has lost.

      What is a Right? A right is something you are entitled to simply for being alive, something that you as an individual have control over yourself. The only place a Right ends is where it immediately transgresses against another individuals rights. The three main rights under which all others are placed are Life, Liberty, and Property. This is what the Bill of Rights covers.

      Safety is an imaginary thing. It is a feeling, an emotion based only upon individual perception and not on reality. Security however, is something different. Being Secure in your Rights is a fundamental part of the protections of the Constitution. But who are these protections needed against, who do they stop from destroying and trampling over your rights?

      Two parties, the Government, and your fellow citizens. Green Watch Dog views the regulation and removal of rights as necessary for “Safety.” He thinks that if he does not feel “safe”, then he has a right to make laws that infringe your rights so that he can be happy about his own opinions. The problem is that the Constitutions says his rights end when they try to control another person’s rights. This is why he is so aggravated by me. To date, I’m the one person he has signaled out by name indirectly in new comments unrelated to previous posts. Why? Because I’ve been able to EDUCATE others here who may have initially been open to his comments, educate them by explaining the Constitution and what the law actually says. They then no longer will support Green Watch Dog, and distrust him anytime they come across him at a later date.

      His lies are that he believes in rights, when he is trying to redefine what a right is so he can violate yours. Not once to this date has he ever attempted to cite the Constitution to me directly. It’s because his argument dies there. No matter what he does, he cant make his argument win and that infuriates him. It’s because he has started from a Lie..

        1. Familiar with it.

          Goes right along with the towns Kennesaw and Nelson in Georgia. Particularly like how the article points out the idea of forced mandates, which is why I brought up those two towns. They have exemptions of Conscience written in. It does not force or penalize those to object to personally owning a firearm, but it does emphasize the right of choice and strengthens the right to keep and bear.

          What a difference that one little caveat makes. Its called Constitutional Consistency. Hats off to Daniel Zimmerman.

          1. Yes Sir indeed!

            I see it like this.. Do not boil a ‘kid’ in its Mother’s milk..
            Someone immature, unable to clearly choose and reason.
            Don’t cause a child to stumble… Conscience.. protection for the Citizen.

          2. The exemption of Conscience isn’t a gimmick for religious people to get out of going to war either…
            I have finally grown up enough and seen how it relates to “not boiling a kid, in its Mother’s milk”..Some one who is too Spiritually immature to correctly reason, or deal with walking in Love towards your enemy, and turning the other cheek, while pulling the trigger to end their life. Other wise, it’s a Constitutional Draft… Gotta love it!

            Like I commented a while back, about the Founding Fathers’ having true knowledge and understanding: of facing our demons, our mortality.. they were well aware of facing death, and war. It will open your eyes to a whole new perspective on life, and death… bring you humbly to your knees, or cause you to run in absolute terror. The family I ran over with the semi truck rocked my world.. Six weeks with out sleep. When I opened my mouth and called upon the Lord, He was waiting!

            …You’ve heard there is no such thing as an atheist in a fox hole. 🙂
            Take a look at the Vets who cannot process the anguish of Soul, and torments of death. Having another man’s blood on your hands, and the suicide rates…

            Facing life and death, means we have to face the truth, of our lives, about other people.. We have to soul search and ask the questions you’re afraid to death of asking.
            With out facing the truth, asking for forgiveness, getting REAL with God, there will be no freedom/Liberty, healing.. Only an empty void, filed with darkness, despair.

            Some of you have been suffering for years.. it may be time for your healing.

            We are little bit short on Constitutional Consistency nowadays! I kind of giggled with this article!

            … Liberty, or Death!

        1. @ CM,

          I vaguely recall a coach leveled in/near Vegas, or Reno, a few years back.. It puts goose bumps on me when I read this stuff..

          You don’t know what its like to be a vet, or a driver, someone who’s faced death.. had their hands in some one else’s blood..
          Want a lesson about walking a mile in another man’s shoes.. There you go!

          I responded to a comment some time ago, about the Constitution, and how it reflected on the Founding Fathers who had true knowledge and understanding of the suffering involved in a war, etc…

          The changes it brings to a person’s perspective when faced with life and death, turning the other cheek, recognizing our own mortalities, and facing our fears..

          You’ll either humbly get on your knees, or run in absolute terror!

        2. @ CM,

          I read your reply below.
          I vaguely recall a coach in Nevada that got leveled…

          I can relate to the goosebumps, the knots in your stomach… Not a fun way to spend time off work!

    7. Close Encounters of The Turd Kind:
      I almost stepped in some doggy pooh
      Would’ve covered the sole of my shoe
      Why can’t folk use a scoop
      To pick up their dog’s poop
      The Green Watch Dog wishes all a Happy Saint Patricks Day!

      1. Once again, the GRF would have others labor to make the world the way he would like it. Just walk around it, dog poop for brains. Thank God you have no authority because you think like a tyrant.

        1. I’m glad his bark is worse than his bite too @ WB…
          Do you suppose he intends on actually being the “Green New Deal’s ‘watchdog’?”

          Maybe it’s time to call animal control!

    8. The revelator,
      Most here are committed in preservation of our amendment rights. And, education and saving lives with a program like this one here.
      Yes, we are well aware that you like to hear yourself squabble! I would go further and bet that neighbors who live @ you turn their backs and close their doors whenever they see you walking your armored dog (with a spiked collar) down the street.

      1. @Green Watch Dog

        You however are not concerned with the Preservation of Rights.

        You have continuously advocated for infringements of those rights.

        The idea that you are “Saving Lives” is also a bogus claim. There has already been evidence submitted to you showing the words of the constitution, showing what the law says the Government can and cannot do, empirical evidence showing that your proposed Gun Control ideas never actually make people safer and that the people who suffer most under them are the law abiding.

        This is why you are a liar. Because you try to use the same failed ideas and LIES time after time they are disproven, acting like it didn’t happen.

        All the while you advocate for things that are going to get people killed, and then talk about how good it is that those people were killed, like Gary Willis.

        You are not here for safety or education. You are here for control and dissecting individual rights. And yes, I know you would love the chance to get your hands on kids to try and use it as a chance to brainwash them to your ideas of infringing on Rights.

        You’re a liar and a hypocrite, with too much cowardice to be the first through the door.

    9. Let all who come here witness this and see, Green Watch Dog is not a Second Amendment Supporter.

      He has been here for months now, advocating Government control and confiscation, violating the Constitution, even up to and including the murder of law abiding Americans who resist his plans for confiscation.

      Let Everyone you know hear from you about his plans that he himself advocates for gun control and that he is a lying, honor less, coward that deserves to be recognized as a traitor to this country.

    10. This is GOOD news..
      Some FFA, Swat, and DARE, involvement: to teach the value of life/death/nature, along with the safety curriculum would be nice too!

      1. The Problem is Walter, what happens when it is the teacher teaching it, with no prescribed curriculum.

        Most teachers are anti constitutional socialists in this country. This bill could also be used as a brainwashing tool against kids as much as it could be used to educate about safety. Think of it this way…

        Would you want a lying weasel like Green Watch Dog teaching the class, telling them how if the kids parents own firearms, that those kids should let police know, and coaching them to tell the police that they don’t feel “safe”. Please remember how much he is salivating for red flag confiscation laws. Its no surprise he couldn’t wait to jump behind this.

        1. Thanks @ REV..
          Noted.. I agree!
          No more weasels…
          I did have a “notion” of what you are addressing, but was thinking of it as an unfinished program..

          It has to be done by qualified teachers, with proper motives, teaching “Constitutional truth”..
          No more watered down, and perverted curriculum! We also have to get rid of the swamp gators.

          Sad to see, that there is no true bipartisanship in America.
          The leftists all drop their division bombs, and blame the GOP for it..
          They are the only ones I see that are not willing to agree, on disagreeing!

          Hollywood elites are joining the anti-Trump club…
          Samuel L. Jackson, said he doesn’t care if he loses fans over his siding against Trump!
          Should we react and boycott his movies, to see if he joins the unemployment line?
          I really like the Marvel comics movies too..
          Sad.. That I have to step-in the shit bombs to watch a movie 🙁

          https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/samuel-l-jackson-doesnt-care-if-his-trump-stance-costs-him-fans

          1. For the most part, I rarely waste money on most of the stuff coming out from Hollywood. I like good coffee, so I avoid starbucks(blech) and brew my own. I won’t touch a GM vehicle because they screwed me over as a taxpayer, and most of all I refuse to use Google.

            Most of the things in my life that I avoid have been because my money matters to me and I don’t feel the need to support things that use that money against me and my rights after they have it. It is for that reason that I left the NRA, and now support the GOA and other groups instead. Only you can decide for yourself if you want to commit to that in your life however.

            “It has to be done by qualified teachers, with proper motives, teaching “Constitutional truth”..
            No more watered down, and perverted curriculum! ”

            Indeed. That is the problem currently. safety training should be actual safety and handling procedures, not opinion based nonsense from the likes of union teachers or individuals like GWD

            1. Hey @ Rev..

              I hope you’re doing well!
              I try to make deliberate choices when it comes to spending as well…
              It’s a difficult row to hoe, not being judgmental, when making choices.
              I thoroughly enjoy coffee, and I do like Starbucks coffee beans, but not the price..
              My palate stops noticing a difference in taste vs. price beyond $!0/lb for coffee beans…
              I like Dodge Ram.. Chrysler Capital has treated me well too!
              I still have a few unanswered concerns over privacy, with the tech companies and social networks!
              Sharing info for a dollar and who’s who secrets with the Gov., etc…

              The DMV/Safety isn’t on the same page between CDL drivers, and operators either. They speak out both sides of their mouths, but expect the CDL driver to be the professional and watch out for every one else driving like an idiot!

              They made me attend a Defensive Driving course over someone pulling out in front of me.. I nearly killed them. I wasn’t ticketed; the proof was in the skid marks. It left me having to deal with nightmares, and a lack of sleep.

              I’ve found that Web Crawler produces more relevant searches.
              Google tries too hard to limit the search results and spills out the trash they want you to find.

              Too bad we weren’t required/safely able to reveal our true names here and on other forums… I “bravely” show my true name, but not the other details.
              I’d like to know who my friends are out in the world.. As it stands stands, I have to put up my guard for anyone.. I’m not afraid, but I’m not stupid either!

              .. Watch out for all them left over Green-WD Camo turds after yesterday’s holiday…
              They blend in well with the lawn 🙂
              Savannah looks like it might be willing to change its history, over what the crowds leave behind…

              …Liberty, or Death!

            2. @Walter Goddard

              Yes, For my own part I was asked to keep my personal information private. I have mentioned here before the family that has been tied very closely to law enforcement, particularly federal, and that position means there are some people who have them on a retribution list and will target anyone including family members to get back at them because of the work they did securing the nation. I wont go into any more detail than that. Anyway, that is my own reason. Others do so, like GWD, because they feel it gives them an ability to say anything without consequences. No lie is too egregious, no statement so obvious that it can come back on them personally. In this state, it becomes the tool of cowards.

              What you said about CDL’s hit close to home too… An uncle out west took up driving tractor trailers about a decade back, and was doing good until someone pulled out in front of him, running a stop sign to cross a highway. Killed them on impact and messed my uncle up pretty bad too. The physical injuries healed soon enough, but the psychological and emotional ones of the loss of life did not. Because of that he gave up driving as a result after being re-evaluated to keep his license.

              As far as I am concerned, you’re someone who’s earned the respect due to have someone be congratulatory when you get something right, and brutally honest if you mess up and still have respect for you even while holding you accountable. That puts you up there with Vanns40 and WildBill in my book.

              No one ever gets things right 100% of the time, but making the choice to search for truth against any cost, and being man enough to admit when wrong. Your comment from yesterday involved what to teach the next generation. It may very well be this truth, which is slowly becoming a lost skill in this day and age.

              Liberty or Death
              Semper Fi
              Acta Non Verba

            3. @ Rev,
              Thanks my Friend and Brother..
              I accept your words of admonition and praise, as an honor due your position in this life…
              Making my reply up here.. no drop down below to reply.

              Keep standing for the Truth, and correcting the lost in tough love!
              They don’t know it yet, but will eventually thank you for it…

              ..Liberty, or Death!

            4. Do you piss and moan what I write to all aspects of your life? Voicing your imagined concerns to family, strangers on the street?
              I share issues I feel that helps to insure saving lives and injury for all, and you spend 24/7 trying to discredit me. I am against recreational drugs, but I think a joint may calm you down.

            5. @The Green Watch Dog

              No moaning involved on my end, but hearing you moan as a result lets me know I’m doing a good job.

              You say “I share issues I feel that helps to insure saving lives and injury for all, and you spend 24/7 trying to discredit me”

              First of all, YOU DISCREDIT YOURSELF. You practice hypocrisy and spend most of your time here trying to repeat the same lies that have been proven as lies since December of last year.

              Second, your feelings, your opinions, your thoughts on what safety is mean nothing. They are emotional nonsense that have no connection to reality whatsoever. Further, many of them are AGAINST THE LAW to try and implement. This has been explained numerous times. Historically and factually, the issues you are sharing are all failed ideas. They have never at any time in history made anyone more safe, but boy oh boy have they led to some of the most horrendous atrocities. The problem is you would rather believe your fantasy instead of reality.

              This is why you are a Liar. This is why you are a hypocrite. This is why you are a coward. You reject proven fact and history, and demand people give up their rights so you can “Feel” good about yourself. Take your feelings and shove them where the sun don’t shine. The Constitution and Bill of Rights were written expressly to prevent people like yourself, who are so engrossed in their own stupidity, from voting in infringements on the rights of others.

              So yes, it is my full intention that everyone will come to know that anything or anyone connected to, and even the name itself that The Green Watch Dog is the name of a liar, a hypocrite, of someone so evil that they cheered the deaths of people who try to resist his ideas on “Safety”. And your comments that you have so graciously provided are the proof. 🙂 Remember that as you contemplate me sitting here, smiling calmly. I had your number since December. So by all means, keep giving me more evidence. 🙂

    11. Good to see pro active response to a bill that is allowed, but not required. Article notes first grade, but all grade level classes could benefit.

      1. TGWD, but having it taught by people without any knowledge of firearms and firearm safety, and without a prescribed curriculum, do you really believe it will teach actual firearm safety? It’s similar to one of Bloomberg’s anti-rights advocacy groups that claims to be a gun safety organization that doesn’t actually teach or advocate for firearm safety, but for gun control, confiscation, and elimination of the 2A, and will trash all other rights to get to their goal.

        No, if the bill stated the course needed to be taught by people that are certified firearm instructors, then it would be a good plan. I would donate my time for that (I am a certified instructor), and I do regularly teach people firearm safety and how to shoot for free – I feel that strongly about people becoming knowledgeable about firearms and firearm safety.

        1. @Heed The Call up.

          That is precisely what I tried to point out to walter.

          Unfortunately Green Watch Dog’s ideas of safety are all based on the idea of Governmental Control and permission, negating the individual RIGHT to KaBA. “Safety” is the catch all word he uses as an excuse for these infringements. ERPO’s are the biggest example. The violate no less than 6 of the rights protected under the Bill of Rights.

          As you have wisely noted, No, this bill is not a good one as of yet. Thank you for also for the time you have spent educating those. If I had some extra Cash right now I’d send you ten thousand constitutions to hand out to those you teach since you do so for free. Knowing and understanding what Rights actually are is what keeps people like Green Watch Dog from being able to get their lies out unchallenged.

          1. @REV..
            Some one seeking US Citizenship is required to know more about the US Constitution than American born Citizens…

            This is a huge sore spot with me.. It has to stop. We have to get the US Constitution back in the classrooms, along with the 10 Commandments.
            The life style perversions taught in schools, are contrary to natural law, and should not be taught as truth, normal.
            It is a sign of a broken foundation, and anything built on it will not stand!

            It’s time to get back to basics.
            We need to teach our children the Truth.. reading, writing, and arithmetic, true/factual science.. not the climate lies!

            I saw the foundations of Bible doctrines shine through, in your previous example of “a right”…
            Walking in love, and Obeying the Golden Rule..
            It is no wonder the anti-Christ, New World Order, operatives want to tear down.. The US Constitution!

            .. Liberty, or Death!

            1. That has been the biggest blind spot for Green Watch Dog.

              Much of how I patterned the way I address him was based of how Jesus argued against the Pharisees. He was very blunt and rough spoken towards them, at times mocking them outright because they were so blinded by their own feelings and opinions that they rejected scripture, rejected what they could see and touch with their own hands, and instead sought for a way to destroy the thing that showed flaws in their opinions. A prime example of this was when Jesus told them their father was satan because of their actions.

              The ideas being pushed by people like GWD are indeed a broken foundation. They are designed from the start to fail, so that when they do even more can be taken. It is done by the works of two types of people, the idiotic believer who buys into the lie and pushes for it, and the murderous architect who’s goal is to use it to destroy and control. GWD’s part is of the idiotic believer. He has bought into the lie because he wants to believe he is doing “good”. This is why he continually tries to present himself as being pro Second Amendment even while he is doing everything he can to violate it. It’s why he always fails, because his life is duplicitous. He does evil while claiming to be for good, he claims to abhor violence as he champions it against those he disagrees with.

              I’ve made no secret of how I argue here on ammoland before. I never write anything without purpose or meaning, often offering just enough bait to keep a hypocrite engaged, manipulating and making them comment more and more when the only option they have is to disengage and hide while hoping things blow over and the incident is forgotten. In a way, I’m handing them the shovel and letting them dig their own reputation’s grave, letting their own words be the evidence against them. Because I stick to evidence and abandon even my own personal opinions, they have nothing they can attack me with in turn. Evidence always proves fact, facts always show truth.

              If children in school were taught to seek the truth this way, to question with boldness and sincerity even the existence of God, to desire to know and operate base on the truth, then they would be uncontrollable by the teacher. The goals of schools has not been education for a very long time. The goal has been to turn out mindless robots able to repeat catchphrases that have been coded into them while being numb to the truth. It is the difference between teaching someone what to think(the school), and teaching someone how to think(the process of searching for the truth).

              Remember, the world rejects sound doctrine and wisdom. Will our Government teach a document that limits it’s own power, and even provides the means to tear it down and start over again? The answer is in the question. So we have to resolve to teach those around us individually, and through how we conduct ourselves. For this reason, I won’t silence the green watch dog, but I use him as a tool for my own purposes even as he tries to do wrong against us, he does more damage to his own arguments.

              Liberty or Death. 🙂

            2. Amen! (As an aside, regarding part of your reply to The Rev., a motorcoach company that I drove for years ago had an “unofficial” policy regarding incidents like the one you referenced. We had incident recorders that looked forward and inside at the same time. If someone were to pull out in front of you, etc., you were to drive THROUGH them, perhaps with a bit more throttle to maintain vehicle stability. You were responsible for 54 passengers on your bus, not the people in the other vehicle that made a very poor choice and received the consequences for it. You absolutely were NOT to swerve, hit the brakes or do anything that could result in the loss of control of your vehicle and endanger your passengers. Natural selection??

          2. @ Rev,
            ..Answering from below again…

            That’s a big Amen!
            We cannot be set free of the lies, until we choose to seek the truth and respond with believing action.

            This is from my own experience..
            Words, or deeds, are empty/lifeless with out the Good fruit to back it up…
            It is “faith” that overcomes the ‘world’, not charisma!
            Faith is the “substance” of what we hope for, it comes from the Spiritual/Word we hear from Jesus Himself.. It is a piece of Him.. a mustard seed.
            …From the Relationship we have from/with Him.

            ..Don’t forget, when Jesus rebuked ‘Satan’, speaking through Peter…

            … Liberty, or Death!

            1. @Walter Goddard.

              Peter is a good example to follow. Not only did Christ have to rebuke him for the temptation he was putting up to Jesus in the Situation you are referring to, but also for denying the authority of God’s power over us (Denying the name 3 times), for Coveting those Around him (Questioning why Jesus had different plans for different disciples), and by Paul for practicing hypocrisy and endangering the church by allowing a double standard of treatment to exist within it.

              A Comparison of Peter and Paul, particularly in contrast with Saul and David, is a good guide for teaching the pitfalls and how to stay on the path of a Christian life. I do not believe Peter’s failings were accidental or born out of conceit. Considering Christ’s laying down the law to Peter telling him he would deny Christ three times, there is reason to believe God brought these about to act as a lesson to the church, even the most pious or powerful individual can fall or falter when he believes he is doing something for the idea that it will bring about “Good”. It gave Paul an example to teach a lesson by using Peter as the example, not unlike GWD is now a tool used to teach and caution against.

              Likewise, I notice you are now quoting scriptural wisdom indirectly. “Words, or deeds, are empty/lifeless with out the Good fruit to back it up…”

              The same can be said of faith in place of “words”. James 2:19-26 is that lesson, and its final warning is “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.” Words without matching actions are meaningless and just as bad as words that don’t match actions, which is hypocrisy.

              Truly enjoyed this comment from you tonight. It was the perfect way to end a 16 hour day.

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