Ammo Stockpiling – Busting Myths with Real Data

Opinion by Rational Preps via Youtube. All credit for video and transcript is the property of Rational Preps.
This video uses select data to debunk common myths about stockpiling ammunition for SHTF situations. It explains why using ammo for barter is a terrible idea, how much you really need for self-defense and hunting, and the truth about hoarding ammo for militia activities.

Editors Note: While we do not agree with all the points made in this older video it is worth having the debate. ps: we still stockpile ammo.

UPDATE: Read Dean Weingarten's rebuttal ~ Ammo Stockpiling: Why You Can Never Have Too Much.

VIDEO REMOVED FROM YOUTUBE

*Machine Transcript follows, [sic].
USA – -(AmmoLand.com)- So-called experts love to pontificate on the amount of ammunition preppers should stockpile. Some say 500 rounds per gun. Others say 1000. Still, others scoff and say those numbers are child's play.

This video looks at real-world data to cut through the B.S. and determine what a smart investment in ammo really looks like. There are four primary rationales used for stockpiling ammunition. Self-defense, hunting, militia activities, and perhaps the worst idea ever. Using ammo for barter.

First self-defense.

In 2018 only a minuscule percentage of U.S. citizens actually fired guns in self-defense. Cops confront criminals daily, but most have never fired their weapons in the line of duty. Smart preppers also know to avoid gunfights like the plague. But if you must fight it's good to know how many shots you should expect to fire when guns are drawn. A New York City police report based on more than 30,600 shooting incidents showed that cops fire an average of only two point nine shots per incident. Claude Werner surveyed close to 500 successful firearm self-defense reports 36 percent of which involved multiple assailants. He found successful civilian defenders fire an average of only two shots per incident. Greg Ellifritz studied more than seventeen hundred real-world gunfights. He determined that all weapon types incapacitate aggressors with an average of less than two head or torso hits. There will always be outliers on the high end, but that's three different real-world sources with large sample sizes all saying you can expect to fire an average of three or fewer shots in the rare event you are ever in a self-defense gunfight.

But that's today. What about after SHTF the American Wild West with its homegrown law enforcement, guns, gangs, and violence is the best historical example we have of a real SHTF like situation. Here are the Wild West most prolific gunfighters and their legendary kill counts.

Now here are their actual historically verified numbers of kills. It's important to understand that these men represent the extreme highs of gunfight participation for the time. By today's standards, they would all be considered psychopaths. Out of these five record-setting Wild West killers only two are verified to have been in more than ten gunfights. So ten gunfights times an average of three shots per fight comes to just 30 rounds. Even if you panic every time and fire an average of 10 rounds per gunfight that's still only 100 bullets, it's the folks playing too many video games that think you need more than that for self-defense. One more thing. It turns out murdering lots of people has some fairly predictable consequences.

Next up hunting.

Just because you plan to hunt it does not mean you're going to be successful.

More than one hundred and five thousand hunters registered for the Oregon 2017 deer season. Only twenty-five thousand deer were harvested that year. That means more than 80000 hunters went home empty handed finding game will only get harder during SHTF because everyone with a 9-millimeter pistol or shotgun will also be out there trying to murder animals. The Alabama DNR notes that deer are almost hunted to extinction in that state during the Great Depression. Given these stats, you don't really want to rely on gun hunting as your sole source of protein. Trapping, fishing and raising livestock are much more reliable and don't consume non-renewable resources. But let's imagine there is game available and you are luckier or more skilled than 75 percent of hunters. The next question is how many deer can you expect to harvest. The Ohio DNR did a study on successful hunters. They found that only 27 percent bagged more than one deer and less than 1 percent bagged more than five. Five deer, by the way, can be turned into close to 1000 meals. Now good hunters know five shots are required to harvest the first year of the season. Four to zero their weapon, and one to kill the animal. This means that the most elite deer hunters will fire about ten rounds per season. The vast majority of folks will fire four to six. If the SHTF scenario last 30 years you wouldn't need much more than 300 hunting cartridges.

A hunting strategy based on small-game like rabbits would require obvious adjustments. If you are prepping for an event that lasts longer than 30 years, it would be wise to invest in hunting technologies with naturally renewable ammunition like bows or blowguns. Remember humans somehow managed to survive for hundreds of thousands of years before firearms were invented.

Next militia actions.

Let's be clear. Fighting a personally funded militia war against an invading modern military force is an absolute dead end strategy. The government's resources and equipment will always be vastly superior to whatever you can scrape together as a civilian. The notion that a civilian AR-15 and a 200 round combat load can blaze a path to victory against a modern military force is nothing but a glorious fantasy. In 2018 Afghan militia fighters managed to kill only 14 of the eight thousand four hundred and seventy-five U.S. troops stationed there. Of those 14 just six soldiers were killed by small arms fire. Six that means despite firing hundreds of thousands of rounds. Militia riflemen only managed to kill a pathetic zero point zero zero zero seven percent of the military force occupying their country. The fact that modern military forces are equipped with level 4 body armor is a key reason for the spectacular failure of militia riflemen.

This protection is specifically designed to stop five point five six and seven point six two rounds. Considering the state of the modern battlefield, it wouldn't matter if you hoarded a million rounds of AR-15 ammo. Those munitions are simply not effective against today's soldiers. You might as well stockpile spitballs. If your survival is important to you armor is a much smarter investment than ammunition. Sniping is the one potentially effective militia rifle strategy. The greatest sniper of all time is Simo Hayha. Finish military records show that he tallied two hundred and fifty-nine sniper kills against the Russians during the Winter War of 1939. His sniping career ended after only one hundred and nineteen days when he was shot in the face and permanently disfigured. So if you think you can match the very best sniper in the history of mankind, you won't need more than 300 rounds to prove it.

Ammo Barter

Finally, some people stockpile ammo thinking they will use it to barter with. This is a terrible idea. Bartering with ammo will primarily attract two types of customers. First the desperately unprepared. People with no ammo are not likely to have anything else of value to trade to a well-prepared person, and you've got to ask yourself what they plan to do with the ammo you give them. Do you really want to top off the magazines of all the random desperate souls who wander through your community?

Common sense dictates that you should never barter away something that can be used to kill you.

That brings up the second group. The “dangerous.” These folks will be looking for ammo because they use a lot of it. That means they're are likely criminals or those prone to violence. Barter out ammo to them is about as smart as setting up a free-range rattlesnake-ranch next to a daycare center. The worst part of bartering ammo is that it is a bright shining advertisement to criminals saying that you are the one who has exactly what they want most. That's not a theory.

The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms says thieves often see gun dealers as easy targets. Their data shows gun store thefts are rising and the smash and grab techniques are growing bolder. These fellows didn't let anything stop them from getting what they wanted during SHTF will you have the security to stop a raid like this. They were in and out in 30 seconds. Why would you invite this kind of trouble when the world is already awash with chaos. Finally, if you think through the problem of paying soldiers and guards, you will understand why no one in history has ever used ammunition as currency. So how much ammo should you stockpile? That answer is easy. Stockpile as much as you want to.

Just don't get fooled into buying more than you really need.



Rational Preps*Source Links…

  • Percent of US citizens involved in self-defense shootings in 2018: 1,795 shootings divided by 327,100,000 people in the US. https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/pa…
  • Percent of police who have fired in the line of duty: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/…
  • Number of shots fired by police: Page 5, Chart “NYPD SOP-9 1988-2001 COMPARISON OF SHOOTING INCIDENTS”, “AVERAGE SHOTS PER OFFICER” Column… http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Av…
  • Number of shots fired by Civilians (Claude Werner): http://gunssavelives.net/self-defense…
  • Number of shots for Incapacitation (Greg Elefritz): See my other video for a full description of the study… https://youtu.be/nycYxb-zNwc
  • Original report here… http://www.activeresponsetraining.net…
  • Gunslinger Information:
  • Tom Horn… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Horn
  • Jim Miller… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Mil…)
  • Billy the Kid… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_t…
  • Wild Bill Hickok… https://truewestmagazine.com/how-many…
  • John Wesley Harding https://www.thevintagenews.com/2015/1…
  • Oregon 2017 Deer Hunting Season: https://www.dfw.state.or.us/resources…
  • Hunting during the Great Depression: https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsessio…
  • Number of deer harvested per hunter (Ohio DNR Study): http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/hunting-t…
  • David Koresh and the siege of his Waco Texas compound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege
  • US military deaths in Afghanistan in 2018: http://icasualties.org/App/AfghanFata…
  • Number of US troops in Afghanistan in 2018: https://www.forces.net/newsoperations…
  • Military body armor protection level: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improve…
  • Simo Häyhä sniper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%…
  • Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms quotes and gun store robbery data: https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/gun-s…
  • Background Music: Tumbleweed Texas – Chris Haugen

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Gregory S. Armand
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Gregory S. Armand

All guns need one thing – ammunition. Some guns need two things – ammunition and magazines. Failure to have these things means you have a piece of worthless metal in your hands that could get you killed when you try to fake it being “loaded”. This article should be from the “lack of preps” instead of the “rational preps”. Maybe if the world blew up into a socialist utopia like these people seem to believe … won’t happen so go buy ammo!

Montgomery
Guest
Montgomery

Evidently Rational Preps thinks that something as mundane as practice is no longer necessary after the Great Zombie Apocalypse. Or that one might want to have a supply on hand in the event of ammo shortages (e.g. .22LR that was hard to get for a few year). Or that you might want a good stockpile in case state or country you live in decide to ban or tax the hell out of your favorite cartridge. There are countless reasons beyond the narrow focus of the narrow minded Rational Preps to stockpile a lifetime supply of your most used cartridges. Your… Read more »

Pa John
Guest
Pa John

Time. As in years and years. You might need ammo for your kids and grandkids to use after you are gone. One example: We finally get that long expected massive solar flare repeat of the 1859 Carrington Event: https://www.history.com/news/a-perfect-solar-superstorm-the-1859-carrington-event We KNOW we WILL be hit by future massive coronal mass ejection / solar flare events because we have been hit by them in the past. Except in the past we were not all so fully dependent on a power grid doomed to catastrophically fail the next time this happens. The last time a lot of telegraph equipment became unusable, the… Read more »

Ronald Doney
Guest
Ronald Doney

Total anti gun article. Does Kate Brown and her two stooges Merkley and Wyden really think that all Oregonians are really that stupid? With what is going on in Oregon right now, we need to stockpile all the ammunition as you can. With at least 5 gun laws coming up on the next election ballots, they want people to be unprepared as possible. We need new leadership in Oregon. The Democrats, snowflakes, ANTIFA and liberals are destroying our rights, our state and our future

Chris Martin
Guest
Chris Martin

A shot of whiskey, one bullet. Anno as currency. So you are incorrect for saying ammo has never been used as currency.

E. Bryan Hoover
Guest
E. Bryan Hoover

The weakest arguments in the video are two. First is confusing death by rifles (you refer to them here as AR-15s or Ak-47 or small arms) with the utility (necessity) of millions of rifles in modern war. Ammunition is not ONLY used for killing people. In fact modern armies use tens of millions of rounds of rifle fire and kill next to no one with them. Riflemen make contact AND fix the location of enemy forces with rifle fire. Artillery and aircraft (both rotary and fixed wing) then bomb the enemy to death. Riflemen are needed to defend the artillery… Read more »

Justin Weiler
Guest
Justin Weiler

Seriously Ammoland… I get the purpose of a fight club but other posters have already pointed out the obvious that dishonest gun grabbers (are there really any other kind?) will take this as an endorsement of these ridiculous ideas from “rational preps” (I love the fact that “rational preps” uses the rather reveaing leftist virtue signalling phrases as “murder animals” and “non-renewable resources”) 1. Guns don’t work without ammo. It takes A LOT of ammo to fend off hostiles. Witness 50k per hostile in the Vietnam war and 200-250k in recent conflicts. “rational preps” minders would prefer that an armed… Read more »

Michael Bane
Guest
Michael Bane

Hard for me to decide whether this is just NONSENSICAL CRAP or an actual FALSE FLAG OPERATION.

In any case, it is breathtakingly stupid in its approaches and wrong in its conclusions.

We have already seen one drastic “ammo contraction,” if you will, in the last decade. Wanna bet we’ll never see another one?

Plus, “murdering animals?” To the filmmakers, I would ask when you last ate at McDonalds, you murdering basrards!

Plus, can we stop gorillas from fighting? Maybe an bullying campaign.

Michael B

Dave C
Guest
Dave C

I am 72 and retired… I go to the range every week & shoot about a hundred rounds. When I reload a specific caliber, I make up about 1000 rounds. That is enough for 10 trips to the range. Buying reloading supplies in bulk saves me a lot of money!
At my age, I don’t get to murder animals much anymore, but I do enjoy my range time!

William Robins
Guest
William Robins

Look at it like this, how many rounds did you shoot last week? Last month? Last year? 100? 1000? 10,000? Once a shtf scenario happens, no more Wal-Mart, gun shop, or gun show. What you have is it, period…so think about next years allowance, and years after. You won’t have the luxury of burning up ammo based on accessibility, because your source is no longer accessible. Learning to ration yourself , will be new discipline, so start now, five round spurts, not full mag dumps. Get all you can….2 cents

Dick Hertz
Guest
Dick Hertz

Level 4 armor is available to just about everyone in the US – I have 6 sets of plates here along with level 3 and level 3+ – I’m not a cop or prepper or anything, armor not a war winner by any means. What I will say is that even the most powerful military force would lose in a prolonged conflict on US soil – whether it be a foreign enemy or the entire US military – they can’t win against 100M citizens with guns in any way. It is all too easy to demolish bridges, tunnels, water supplies,… Read more »

Tad
Guest
Tad

Spot on. Others have mentioned Vegetius’ “Si vis pacem…”, but few seem to remember he also said the principal aim of war is to secure provisions for yourself and deny them to your enemy. If, God forbid, we ever do end up in full blown civil war, nearly all the deaths will be from thirst, starvation, and disease. The gun grabbers are absolutely right when they say ordinary armed citizens would lose to a modern military on the battlefield, but they’re fools for thinking that our next Civil War will be fought on battlefields. The rebels with the guns won’t… Read more »

George Steele
Guest
George Steele

Wow – so we should plan for the 2020 war based on the strategy and tactics of 1939. That makes sense – nothing has changed. Except that the Japanese didn’t attack the US, because they had no 4 engine bombers. Likewise Germany – they were only successful against poorly-armed retro militaries that were neighbors. As soon as it came to Russia, Hitler was hosed. We won because we had 4 engine bombers, fighter escorts (Mustangs) with wing tanks that could reach the heart of Germany, and we could build supply ships and carriers faster than the Japanese and the Germans… Read more »

George Steele
Guest
George Steele

Dammit – D-5; typo. Why no edit capability on this forum?

SeaLeopard
Guest
SeaLeopard

WOW!!!!
All of the replies are enlightening and have merit, here is my addition.
Consider cooking for company, better to have too much rather than not enough.

Bob
Guest
Bob

Come on, “murder animals”? What a moron.

Old Vet
Guest
Old Vet

Just like AOC who gets her meat at the grocery store where no animals are harmed.

Bob
Guest
Bob

That would be funny, but it’s so stupid that it’s scary. And to think that she is a “high” official in the United States government and that her words actually represent people somewhere. She, they, must truly be high on something.

Joe Rivas
Guest
Joe Rivas

Very easy to identify the partisan favor that this author has. He mentions NOTHING about the very reason our 2nd amendment was adopted. Which brings me to note that this author also failed to mention the numbers on how much ammo our government is stockpiling. Look at research on government contracts to purchase ammo. The numbers are staggering. Make no mistake folks, if our government is stockpiling, so will I.

Renov8
Guest
Renov8

Two things come to mind…I need to buy more ammo. Afyter I buy the additional ammo, I need to buy more after that.

Wild Bill
Guest
Wild Bill

@Renov8, don’t neglect rations, and some way to get water and make it potable. As to the article’s author, my answer is don’t be in a position that you have to barter. Like Hal Moore used to say, ” Be ready, so that you don’t have to get ready.”
Desperately unprepared people could make a useful labor force. A desperately unprepared person that I know is an MD. He believes, and has to believe, that nothing will ever go wrong. He will be part of my labor force.
Finally, everything is an asset if you know how to use it.

Renov8
Guest
Renov8

@Wild Bill…I hear ya. I have worked to keep myself hydrated, even if the lights go out. Built a water treatment plant using food grade drums and various filtering media, located in my basement with access to a well…the rest is obvious. I have used it a couple times just to try it out…works well, no pun intended.

I don’t plan to barter…or even pop my head out if anything should happen. low key is the plan. If anyone comes forth, will deal with it accordingly.

Wild Bill
Guest
Wild Bill

@Renov8, Outstanding prep. My hat is off to you. Are you by any chance down here in the Rep. of Texas?

John
Guest
John

This article likely will be used by the anti-gun thumpers to justify their regurgitated rhetoric of banning standard capacity magazines, limiting ammo purchases, and other voiced infringements, citing Ammoland now as its source.

Robert
Guest
Robert

I was thinkin the same as you libs n moms hate guns n im sure bloomingburgidiots read here too. QUIT POSTING SUGGESTIONS TO LIBERALS AMMOLAND.thats what nra does

billybobtexas
Guest
billybobtexas

What’s funny….? The fact that if I have 500 ads…….I want another 2,000. And after I get 2,000 rounds (comes in a plastic bag inside a box that weighs 50 lbs…). then I want 5,000 rds………then THAT’s not enuff……where do I stop??!! 🙂 🙂

Joel Quinn
Guest
Joel Quinn

Where ever you need…..

Charles Valenzuela
Guest
Charles Valenzuela

Since you like to spout pretty meaningless statistics regarding our ability to defend ourselves against military forces: As of July 27, 2018, there have been 2,372 U.S. military deaths in the War in Afghanistan. 1,856 of these deaths have been the result of hostile action. 20,320 American service members have also been wounded in action during the war.In addition, there were 1,720 U.S. civilian contractor fatalities. The highest number of American fatalities recorded in a single incident occurred on August 6, 2011, in which a transport helicopter was shot down killing 30 Americans, including 22 Navy SEALs. Population of Afghanistan… Read more »

Wild Bill
Guest
Wild Bill

@CV, Yeah, his numbers are irrelevant because the numbers are drawn from the wrong situations. For instance, how many rounds are fired in the average Break Contact drill? A hell of a lot more than three!

blockheadbiker
Guest
blockheadbiker

Where would we have been if we had used this logic when the British were taxing the people into poverty and we took the STUPID COWARDLY LOGIC OF OOOOH YOU CAN’T WIN AGAINST A LARGE STANDING ARMY DO JUST THROW UP YOUR HANDS AND LET THE TYRANNY RUN RIGHT OVER YOUR STUPID COWARDLY ASS!!

Capndad
Guest
Capndad

CNN MSNBC propaganda. Your neighbors who you trust may not have bulked up….one might have to become S4. Besides the more of anything gun related you buy is more sticks in the eyes of the commie libtards. Buy away!

Jim Lyons
Guest
Jim Lyons

Hmmmm – lots of statistics in isolation. Nothing actually weaves the any logic together. Level 4 armor is extremely heavy and restrictive. Level 4 armor countermeasure = .50 cal – Beowulf is affordable and Barrett’s for the well healed. Close in a shotgun to the armor has been known to be deadly on trauma plate – no holes but just as dead from the shock. Hopefully we will never get to SHTF or a hot Civil War but who knows. Apparently the Left is just chomping at the bit in keeping with the rest of their delusions. U.S. military will… Read more »

Michael F.
Guest
Michael F.

Remember who make up our military…..how serious are they going to take orders to fight, kill and destroy their family friends and country.

JW
Guest
JW

The reason for buying large batches of ammo is cost per round. The less you pay the more you can practice. So of the SHTF you won’t have to use large amounts trying to hit something. Simple.

Scott
Guest
Scott

Exactly, the argument that most gun fights only require 2 or 3 rounds does not negate the thousands of rounds fired in practice. It also relies on the assumption that ammunition will always be available and affordable.

Lonnie Powell
Guest
Lonnie Powell

I have read several of these on line articles. I am not by any way any kind of publisher or writer, but, I have come to a conclusion. Writers of articles like this print some of this off the wall stuff just to get lots of feed back. I would bet they are no different from the rest of us. So, I decided it wasn’t worth my time and energy to get all upset about what was written here in regards about stock piling lots of ammo.

Diogenes
Guest
Diogenes

The author, besides very poor grammar and punctuation skills, also fails to account for the Afghan “militias” causing what was our greatest bogeyman, the USSR, to pack up and leave. Simply put, no foreign invaders have ever held that crappy place for more than a few years.

And really, why the hell should he care if other people foolishly stockpile zillions of rounds?

In case the author reads this, here are some free question marks: ???????????. Half his statements are couched as questions and don’t have a question mark.

Incognito
Guest
Incognito

I fought in Afghanistan and I can tell you some cavemen with over 100 year old rifles, scooters and some explosives can be pretty damn effective against the most advanced military in the world. I’ve seen upper tier units take casualties. This is a very insulting article to elite members of the military that have lost their lives to these supposedly ineffective “militia rifleman” shooting “spitballs”. The body armor thing is retarded because it doesnt cover your entire body wtf. Again, I’ve seen how ineffective level 4 plates can be if they arent hit by the round. Most combat deaths… Read more »

Ray Berggren
Guest
Ray Berggren

Thank you for setting the record straight, and for your service

Spurs6
Guest
Spurs6

Well, Ammoland, if you wanted to start a fight then this is the way to do it. Nicely done. As for the writer/blogger/youtuber/provocateur you make some good points and have pretty good stats but spin the conclusions. I agree you, not me or any thinking person on this site, should not stockpile ammo. In fact I believe you should not have any weapons or ammo and simply stockpile food, medical supplies, farm implements and gold. Make sure you have enough for 30 years and hide it well. I’ll give you two days in a shtf scenario and then I’ll be… Read more »

Matt in Oklahoma
Guest
Matt in Oklahoma

Yes 9mm on deer. Within reason of course. Most of y’all think hunting is an ATV and a stand with a feeder on a timer. Not so

n r ringlee
Guest
n r ringlee

There are some fundamental flaws in this logic, false assumptions about insurgency that make me question whether or not the writers have ever been in an insurgency. First, even back in the late 1960’s while drafting things like Garden Plot planners understood one truth about free societies: soldiers and Marines will not turn their weapons on their countrymen. Less true in the developing world as we see in places like the Middle East and Africa, much of Latin America, but in the English speaking world, it simply will not happen. If an insurgency develops it develops because our charter, Constitutional… Read more »

Docduracoat
Guest
Docduracoat

No one ever mentions that if the U.S. ever has a civil war, you can bet the Russians and Chinese will be supplying both sides. There will be plenty of ammo available as they will want us to keep shooting each other. Just like we supply the Kurds and Free Syrian Army in Syria. Foreign actors will supply us in our civil war.

Rocky Mountain
Guest
Rocky Mountain

Cops ran off and hid during the Rodney King riots in LA 27 years ago and these were not heavily armed militia they ran from but rather savages for all intensive purposes. When shtf this time they will again run off. Right now in my county they are already in deep hiding. No uniforms, no cop vehicles and the cop shop is barricaded defensively for an attack against it. Obviously their intel says shtf now.

https://gunsinthenews.com/27-years-ago-cops-fled-in-fear-from-la-riots-forced-korean-americans-to-use-their-own-guns-in-defense/

Rocky Mountain
Guest
Rocky Mountain

If citizens were no threat then they wouldn’t be on here telling us we don’t stand a chance. Hell, they would already be killing us instead of trying to make us surrender our firearms.

mehcaeb niwrad
Guest
mehcaeb niwrad

Why do. so many sites online keep telling us its pointless to think citizens can defend against a standing army??

R vick
Guest
R vick

One 45 in Hitler’s head could have stopped million from dieing

Rocky Mountain
Guest
Rocky Mountain

So you’re defeated before you attempt to stand up for your rights. Psych warfare, an integral part of every fight. Arm you down, wind you out, kill yourself not the enemy. Get it?

Joel Quinn
Guest
Joel Quinn

The founding fathers intended the population, We the People, to be equally armed as the military, which, at the time, we were. [email protected]

Tim stark
Guest
Tim stark

Hey Ammoland. Where did you get this joke of an editor from.
The Democratic party? The guy is absolutely wrong on so many levels I doubt he’s ever even held a gun.
And a 9mm on a deer? WTF. SMH Ammoland. Congratulations I will buy nothing from you guys for now on
#maga

R. Caniglia
Guest
R. Caniglia

I do ‘ammo cost averaging’. It only gets more expensive and with a stockpile, I’ll be able to both shoot and buy steak at the grocery when I’m retired and living on nothing. If the stockpile is needed for other reasons, great. I’ll have it. If not, fine, I’ll play harder.

Tigerblood230
Guest
Tigerblood230

Exactly.

dwest
Guest
dwest

Two is one, and one is none. Therefore, more is better than less, and less will never be enough. Stockpile the means & materials to reload your own ammo while also stashing the manufactured kind. I’m in the 1000 per firearm camp along with enough raw materials to make 2 to 3000 more for each firearm. But opinions are like ash holes, I’m sure mine stinks as much as yours 😉

Rick Pollard
Guest
Rick Pollard

So what if you are not preparing for the SHTF?

What if you just like to practice shooting? and you can remember what the shelves looked like at Walmart when you just wanted to spend a Saturday blasting tree stumps?

Doug
Guest
Doug

If this is supposed to be a definitive article, he sure left that out. Pleasure/target shooting is 98% of my usage with 1% hunting and 1% reserve for defense. Apparently we’re just one s#!thole President away from those empty shelves and anyone caught without a supply will remember what that feels like. If I expect to be around this planet for 30 more years, I want a 31 year supply now, while ammo is available and comparatively affordable.

And to the author, when all hell breaks loose, you only need one bullet to solve your problems.

Joe Sixpack
Guest
Joe Sixpack

Absolutely! When the author stated, “There are four primary rationales used for stockpiling ammunition. Self-defense, hunting, militia activities, and perhaps the worst idea ever. Using ammo for barter.” My first thought was, “What if you just love shooting?! I enjoy competitive shooting and burn through approximately 15-20K rounds per year across all calibers. [Ex: A family of 4 going to a NSSF Rimfire Challenge match that has 5 stages can burn 1,000 rounds before 2pm.] I remember the ammo droughts of Y2K, the Powder Taggant scare, the Expiring Primer scare, Clinton’s AWB, Obama’s election, the Rimfire Desert (and 22 scalpers),… Read more »

45StoppinPowah
Guest
45StoppinPowah

This guy is a leftist shill, just take a look at his YouTube channel. Be very suspicious of anyone who tells you not to stockpile, or that a militia can’t hold its own against a professional military. Last time I checked those goat farmers in the ME are still holding out.

Lee Boswell
Guest
Lee Boswell

Yea ! Ace m82 . Why is this left wing crap on here . It’s anti gun . Anti ammo . Anti magazines . Sociiolistic. . Defetist

Will Flatt
Guest
Will Flatt

Rational Preps put this video out a while ago, and I posted on their YouTube page back then that this video is bullshit. Their argument is so stupid that I lost 20 IQ points just to debunk their idiocy. While you might not be able to hump 1000 rounds of .308 or some other full-power cartridge, There’s ABSOLUTELY NO REASON NOT TO PROPERLY CACHE A GOODLY SUPPLY of your preferred ammo in your AO. RP’s assumptions are based on false premises!! While I may agree there are hazards in barter, that’s something that should only be done between people who… Read more »

Glen Pollard
Guest
Glen Pollard

I found that your research is incomplete. 1. If I was stock piling ammo for shtf. It would be to help arm an army. 2. You need to put up the statistics of how many of our troops were took out of the fight, because of wounds from small arms fire. As in most wars. Wounding an enemy, usually takes 3 people out of the battle. One wounded. 2 To carry them out. 3. The more training. The better chances you will have to survive any fire fight. That takes a lot of ammo. What is ignorance? Is not having… Read more »

Will Flatt
Guest
Will Flatt

Sorry but not everyone can afford to equip their own private army. It is better to associate with like-minded individuals, develop relationships with them and make them part of your plans once trust is established. And while knowledge is an effective weapon, knowledge is nothing if you do not train. And as for more ammo, I believe I already advocated that more is better. I don’t know why you want to pick an argument with ME of all people just because my comments were brief. I’m not interested in bloviating at length about the 1001 things to do for SHTF,… Read more »

BN McCutcheon
Guest
BN McCutcheon

WTF!!! Better To Have It and Not Need It, Than To Need It and Not Have It!!! Rangers Kead The Way!!!!!

Rocky Mountain
Guest
Rocky Mountain

HOORAH!
Yes indeed!
RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!

AggregatVier
Guest
AggregatVier

If you bought ammo years ago it was a lot cheaper and easier to buy. If you’re only talking about it now, you may already be too far behind.

Zoomer
Guest
Zoomer

Shut up you retarded boomer

Bill Harris
Guest
Bill Harris

It is a shame that Ammoland is publishing Antifa/Communist Propaganda. I will be sure to keep this in mind when making purchase decisions in the future.

Your Worst Nightmare
Guest
Your Worst Nightmare

How is this supporting Antifa? What am I missing? It just seems like one guys opinion based on his select facts?

Bill Harris
Guest
Bill Harris

The Youtube channel profile picture is Red and Black. Those colors are very specifically Anarcho-Communist. Also, if his videos, he refers to hunting as “Murdering Animals”. That, not to mention his evident ignorance on firearms related topics, leads me to believe he is a Far Left Shill.

Oldvet
Guest
Oldvet

You all realize that he does stats for climate change too.

Your Worst Nightmare
Guest
Your Worst Nightmare

I think you have this video channel confused with Rational Optimist, Matt Ridley. Two very different people.

Oldvet
Guest
Oldvet

Not really , just trying to inject a little humor . They both make about the same amount of sense .

Randall Benson
Guest
Randall Benson

Murdering deer? With a 9mm?

Gas Block in WA
Guest
Gas Block in WA

Why even publish this prop crap Ammoland?
\

Rocky Mountain
Guest
Rocky Mountain

You expect better from a site that promotes the NRA gun grabbers that push licenses, trump stock bans, GCA and all kinds of other unconstitutional gun control like background checks etc?

First trick to survival, know infiltration when you’re infiltrated.

Ray Tomason
Guest
Ray Tomason

After suffering through the piss poor grammar, in this write up, it’s difficult to take anything, contained therein, too seriously.

I’ll just take my chances and do what I want. (That main reason is protecting me and mine from all those cute little militias playing soldier, when SHTF.)

Sean
Guest
Sean

Comparing SHTF to common day is absurd.

Mike Bolton
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Mike Bolton

After reading this… only 1 thing comes to mind.
That this is a propaganda piece. No citing of reference, but claiming cops only fire 3 rounds…
This seems like a… “You dont need more than ten” set up.
I horde not just for me, but because many other friends cant.
I need to supply a full rifle squad of 13 men. Also…
If your not reloading… your just wrong. You need to stockpile primers and powder. Bullets can be cast, brass recycled, but in shtf… powder I guess could be made, but primers will ne the real bitch.

Specialcircumstances
Guest
Specialcircumstances

References are cited at the end of the article, all of which appear to be to legitimite, publicly verifiable, sources. I don’t necessarily agree with the authors conclusions but let’s not pretend they haven’t done some research. Note that I don’t think the ‘2 per engagement’ rule holds up to anything besides the situations specific to the data it was culled from, which is to say ‘peace officer within 20 yards (probably closer) firing a pistol’. The sort of situation you will see more of in an post-societal situation, especially in the US where there are a lot of SA… Read more »

Fact checker
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Fact checker

While I agree with you, the references are cited at the end of the article. Maybe they weren’t when you read it. I fully agree on the reloading statement. I intend to start that very soon. I’ve been saving my brass to sell or trade for the equipment to start reloading. Have to start somewhere I guess.

Luke
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Luke

Exactly what I was thinking 10 seconds in

Glen Pollard
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Glen Pollard

Agreed.

Roy D.
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Roy D.

During a real SHTF scenario a lot of ammo will be used for pest control. And there will be plenty of pests needing controlling. This video is a joke for the most part and only a fool would take most of it seriously. But hey, there are hundreds of thousands of people who think the stuff CNN puts out is “real news.” Caveat emptor.

Jonathan Lemaire
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Jonathan Lemaire

So you must rely on Fox News to do your thinking for you lol..I fact check all news sources as an addiction to reality, and cnn does a better job than most.

John Deinlein
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John Deinlein

if you truly think CNN does a good job you must be a Clinton, communist just the type of person that would agree with this articlepool

Nottinghill
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Nottinghill

@John Deinlein: …and a very large heap of poo it is!

Witold Pilecki
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Witold Pilecki

That’s what I always thought, too. Cops and N.G. will want to be home protecting their own, NOT ME AND MINE! Therefore, when the EBT dependent zombies come looking for supplies at my place, their bodies would be stacked like cord-wood along the road from property line to property line, like the Spartans did with the Persians in the movie “300”

Jase
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Jase

I like the article but you forgot 1 key situation, the American. We have done what no one else has, don’t underestimate the “American spirit”.

Austin
Guest
Austin

Level 4 body armor, meet .300 Remington Ultra Mag. And go tell the Vietnamese that a bunch of civilians with crappy rifles can’t mount a successful insurgency and make the world’s largest army go home. I do notice you use the Mid East as evidence, but find me anyone at the pentagon to tell me the US is “winning” in the Middle East. You don’t have to kill them. You just have to make it expensive and disheartening to continue. Especially easy when your enemy is waging war on it’s own tax cattle in a civil conflict. Militias work because… Read more »

Tigerblood230
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Tigerblood230

Well said.

ace_m82
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ace_m82

“Fighting a personally funded militia war against an invading modern military force is an absolute dead end strategy. The government’s resources and equipment will always be vastly superior to whatever you can scrape together as a civilian. The notion that a civilian AR-15 and a 200 round combat load can blaze a path to victory against a modern military force is nothing but a glorious fantasy.” Lexington and Concord called. They left you a note. Also, why do you assume you’d be alone? And why do you assume that all of them are “front line” troops when only 5% or… Read more »

KevinD
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KevinD

If level 4 body is a key reason for the spectacular failure of militia riflemen, wouldn’t it also be a key reason for the spectacular failure of soldiers too? It’s designed to stop the same ammo they use.

If rifles are now useless in combat why do we still have infantry?

Specialcircumstances
Guest
Specialcircumstances

Waco and Ruby Ridge called, they’ll be waiting out front.

Billy
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Billy

When it comes to the prospect of an invading army, militias would obviously supplement the U.S military forces in defense of the nation, so ammo stockpiles all over the nation would actually be a big help for defending the nation. Now if we’re talking about a revolt pitting civilians against the U.S military, level 4 body armor isn’t going to make very much difference. These soldiers aren’t RoboCop when they’re hit in their plate carriers. They feel the impact, lose their footing and fall down, they may then scramble to cover afterwards, but they aren’t unphased. And that’s just the… Read more »

John Deinlein
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John Deinlein

Well said exactly what I was thinking I’ve been shooting Firearms almost everyday for half a century I’m very proficient in accuracy Department

Rocky Mountain
Guest
Rocky Mountain

And let’s not leave out that the only military forces to date that are known to run directly into heavy and or machine gun fire are Marines and they use each others dead bodies to hide behind while advancing onto the enemy because they’re a special breed. I have personally seen a guy hold off hundreds of heavily armed police with only a pistol and zero back up ammo right down at my local high school and he finally surrendered after murdering a student. Still alive but in jail this day. Don’t even think he ever fired a shot. All… Read more »

Allan Morrison
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Allan Morrison

Fuck all you all with your voice to hard copy computer translators, It’s guerilla warfare, not a bunch of gorillas fighting, and you wreak havoc. Once you have wreaked the havoc, it may or may not stink or reek. Get it? Will the fight commence to protect freedom of dumbass technocrats who talk but can’t proofread? Off with your heads.

AggregatVier
Guest
AggregatVier

Are you so upset because one of these technocrat computer translators rendered your name as Alanis Morissette? I was at a meeting were a woman’s name, Verneen, was rendered as Vermin right up on the PowerPoint slide. Now that did wreak havoc (plus a good deal of reek). As to the main point, Ammoland should be more judicious about the articles they publish that may appear to lend credence to ideas or commentary foreign to the Second Amendment community rather that post a disclaimer afterwards when the comments are overwhelmingly sour. Then again, it may also be comment bait or… Read more »