Current U.S. Gun Registration That No One Seems Concerned About

Letter to the AmmoLand Editor

USA – -(AmmoLand.com)- In reading Andy Massimilian's letter, dated August 26, 2019, concerning Universal Background Checks and the Federal Registry they would create, I am surprised that no one is concerned about the current “firearms registry” that already exists (in a form).

When a gun sale is handled at an FFL, the ATF Form 4473 we all fill out is then maintained (BATF requirement) by the FFL for “not less than 20 years.”

 

Letters to the AmmoLand Editor
Letters to the AmmoLand Editor: Got something on your mind? Let us know, and you can see it here.

If the FFL goes out of business, the forms must be transferred to the BATF for their keeping. I wonder how many FFL's actually take the time and effort to “clean out” their records when they have exceeded 20 years.

 

Law enforcement uses these records when a gun is recovered at a crime scene. They go first to the manufacturer with the model and serial number to find out which dealer received the gun. Then, an inquiry with the dealer reveals who they sold the gun to.

This method was used by authorities to discover the origin of a handgun, sold to an American farmer in 1985 (who died many years ago), disappeared, and now is responsible for use in 9 murders in Jamaica.

Of course, the ultimate movie scene that is more reality than fiction is from the original “Red Dawn” where the invaders send a person to the local gun store to get the records and then all arrest the gun owners and confiscate their guns (a liberal Socialist-Democrat dream).

Our nation already has a gun registry, mandated at the Federal level.

I'm not an editorial writer, but I do not see the regular writers addressing this concern.

Thanks – Steve

Form 4473
ATF Form 4473 Now Available

Letters to the AmmoLand Editor: Got something on your mind? Email us at [email protected] Subject: Letters to The AmmoLand News Editor.

56
Leave a Reply

Please Login to comment
18 Comment threads
38 Thread replies
1 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
26 Comment authors
RattlerjakemeWill FlattRoyDSGT_Wombat Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
Notify of
me
Member
me

You guys are missing the easiest solution. 80% AR lowers, no numbers no BATF forms, are shipped to my door for less than $40 a pop AKs for even less. I’ve got Glocks and 1911s none with numbers or forms filled out. Tools can get a bit expensive, my jigs ran about $100 a pop and a good drill press and dremel tool. And YouTube if full of how to videos. Just avoid the class 3 jigs, they are out there and I’m not sure I would wanna get caught with one.

Rattlerjake
Member
Rattlerjake

There are several reasons that people insist on going along with this illegal federal gun control: 1) The majority of people don’t have the balls to stand up for their rights, or 2) they don’t care, don’t have a clue, aren’t bothered by the negative possibilities, 3) there are many new and innovative weapons produced each year that you cannot get through the 80% market. People that fit these reasons are just as bad/guilty as the leftists who push gun control.

Oldvet
Member
Oldvet

Wonder how this article also ended up in my spam filter .

Laddyboy
Member
Laddyboy

YEP!! NICS 4473 IS a gun registry of every weapon sold since the form was required by law to be filled out. The NRA even caught the government with a REGISTRY of weapons. They were forced to “destroy” the list. The question IS how much of that list is on the NSA’s computers in storage where NO One can monitor what is there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

willyd
Member
willyd

This is why when I sell a gun, anyone I take the gun and buyer to a FFL shop and do all of the paperwork and back ground checks. That way if something happens later, they can check the paperwork and find out that the transfer was do correctly and that i am no long connected to that gun!

Tionico
Member
Tionico

There are several ways the “trail” can easily and legally be broken. Suppose I buy a used gun at a gun show from an FFL and we do BGC. Maybe HE took the gun in trade from someone else. So ATF trace will reveal that Bob bought that gun new in 1995. If HE sold it in 97, there is not likely to be a link to that second owner, and if it was legally sold privately there IS no link. So I get it from Billy’s Guns at the show, BGC run, so now I have it. Suppose two… Read more »

John Dunlap
Member
John Dunlap

I’ll take it even further. A father purchases a shotgun for his son’s birthday. They’re immediate family members, so that transfer is not subject to background check or recording requirements, even in California (my mother has a revolver that I bought for her; it belongs to her, but a records trace would end with me). Twenty years later, the son, who has moved halfway across the country at this point, gives the shotgun to his son. Again, immediate family members are exempt from background checks and recording of the sale. A few months later, a crystal meth addict burgles their… Read more »

Will
Member
Will

I’ve always done just the opposite ! I have sold many firearms over the years that required a 4473 when I purchased them. All the 4473 does is show you purchased it at some point in time,not that you still own it.

JDT
Member
JDT

NFA items are all on a nice list too. Shall not be infringed? The 2A has been slowly tread on since 1934 and probably will be crushed by 2034 since politicians just do whatever they want. We will have black powder guns only allowed to have in our homes.

Laddyboy
Member
Laddyboy

@JDT; You are mistaken. After the “modern sporting rifles” and equivalent hand guns are banned, the next step would be to remove all historical and functioning “black powder weapons”. From the GUN BANNER/CONTROLLERS point of view – – problem solved
YET!!! Criminals would STILL have weapons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sam
Member
Sam

The ATF is requiring some, if not all, FFL dealers including pawn shops to copy all the forms 4473 they have at their own expense, and turn these over to the ATF before they will get their FFL renewed. This drove OK Pawn of Huntsville Texas out of the gun business. It’s illegal and I’ve called my congressman about it. 202-224-3121.

KenW
Member
KenW

What some do not realize is that a C & R, Curios and Relics, license holder is also required to maintain a record of firearms bought and sold under said license. Some think that by using a C & R, and there are viable reasons for having one, that you are by-passing the so-called 4473 data base, but in essence also creating a list of guns for the Gov’t.

SGT_Wombat
Member
SGT_Wombat

Lost my guns in a boating accident. Including the ones I bought with my C & R. Funny thing, in Illinois there is a loophole ALLOWING C & R holders to own a SBR, still have to get the stamp though, but damn!

Rattlerjake
Member
Rattlerjake

If you think that cock and bull story will stop the government from searching you and your property to confiscate weapons, you’re sadly mistaken. At 62, I’ve NEVER filled out an ATF form of any type. True, I am not always able to enjoy the latest and greatest new weapons, but I really don’t care. I legally obtain weapons from sellers who NEVER know my personal information, and by buying part and making my own unserialized weapons. I refuse to cower to the government and their violation of the Constitution, our individual rights, and abuse of power over this nation.

JPM
Member
JPM

I had an FFL a number of years back and as such, if there is a “gun roundup”, I’ll be one of the folks at the top of the list along with all other FFL holders and former holders. We’re all on a government list somewhere.

Knute
Member
Knute

Did you let yours go before the opening debacle of the NICS launch, the same as I did? Remember back when the plan was to issue us all numbers to access the call center, run the system for three months, and then charge us whatever they decided on later? That made it real easy to decide what to charge a customer, didn’t it? And then the whole system crashed, and Congress stuck the taxpayer (still you and I, but now indirectly) with the tab instead.

SGT_Wombat
Member
SGT_Wombat

I also had a FFL and when I closed shop I had to send my Bound Book and 4473s to the ATF. I have since lost all my guns in a boating accident, including the ones I bought with my regular FFL and my C & R FFL.

Heed the Call-up
Member
Heed the Call-up

That issue is regularly mentioned whenever “registration” is discussed. It was also an issue when the background check scheme and the Form 4473 was created. We have not been able to get that repealed, and we have been fighting many other “gun control” schemes, successfully, and not, ever since the NFA was enacted, and quite probably well before then, too. We certainly fought against “gun control” at the outset of our country, being as confiscation was what started the revolution.

MikeRoss
Member
MikeRoss

The law says 20 years, but the BATF encourages FFLs to turn in everything over 20 too. My favorite LGS is closing after 35 years, all the 4473s will be turned over to the BATF because the owner doesn’t want to upset the feds. It’s sad, but most FFLs probably think like that.

Will
Member
Will

If he’s going out of business why would he care if it pisses them off ? Maybe he’s just too lazy to destroy the last 15 years.

Rattlerjake
Member
Rattlerjake

It’s because he has no balls! He has no credibility or honor! He’s no better than the leftists who he is conceding to! “If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything!”

b68g
Member
b68g

SH_T !!! this is very concerning

Will
Member
Will

If this is very concerning to you now,where have you been ? It’s only been around for almost ever ! Do you own firearms at all ?

24and7
Member
24and7

Hopefully all FFL dealers I have a “Burn Notice”.. If Firearms become illegal, hopefully all FFL dealers will unite and burn their files in unison…

Will Flatt
Member

If you’re about to be permanently put out of business, one may as well destroy all records and join your fellow outlaws. And hopefully take every remaining firearm in stock and every last round of ammo, and put it in the hands of the resistance!!

Finnky
Member
Finnky

@Will Flatt — If you are about to be put out of business and unemployed – why would you want to tack on several felonies? Big cut to income stream combined with legal fees and probably followed by poor living conditions at tax payer’s expense. When you get out you’ll be unemployed and unemployable.
OTOH – not sure about criminal charges if there ‘happens’ to be a fire in your establishment while you’ve got the paperwork boxed up and ready to go…

Will Flatt
Member

Freemen do not ask permission to exercise their rights. And you sir are a craven coward if you’re more afraid of becoming an outlaw rather than defend liberty in our darkest hour. There are no legal fees if you determine to never be taken hostage/POW.

talon99
Member
talon99

When a shooting happens on a Saturday night/Sunday morning (i.e. Pulse nightclub in Orlando or Dayton Oregon District), I am always amazed how quickly the firearm owner is identified. First once the firearm is first entered into the evidence in the wee hours of Sunday morning, someone at the manufacturer is woken up, gets to the office, and identifies the distributor. Then, this process is repeated at the distributor to find out the specific dealer it was sold to. Finally, the LGS is awoken and can determine the buyer of the firearm. All of this happens within hours of the… Read more »

24and7
Member
24and7

What is even more disturbing, is how only one shooter gets the rap… when multiple Witnesses see several shooters…

Will Flatt
Member

Shh, we’re not supposed to discuss inconvenient TRUTHS. Doing so is now an act of terrorism and justification for TAPS Act preventive detention & gun confiscation. All in the name of public safety, of course.

SGT_Wombat
Member
SGT_Wombat

What about Al Gore’s fortune making fake movie?

Will Flatt
Member

Algore’s movie was pure commie agitprop. Not truth but LIES. I don’t have the time of day for that asshole or his watermelon politics.

Watermelon politics: enviro-green on the outside, commie red on the inside!!

Tionico
Member
Tionico

PLEASE stop calling these people “shooters”. Most of us reading this column are “shooters”, but none of us are MURDERERS.

Start using the proper term. When I plink iin my backyard (safe and legal) I am a “shooter”. But neither I nor the dozens/hundreds of other “shooters” I know have ever murdered anyone.

Those dirtbags that kill multiple victims with their firearms are killers or murderers.

One more way the war with words works against us. Call these dirtbags “shooters” that puts the rest of us in that same category as we are all “shooters”.

ras52
Member
ras52

Tio, right you are.

RoyD
Member
RoyD

He who gets to define the words, wins the discussion.

SGT_Wombat
Member
SGT_Wombat

That’s not surprising. Everybody will see things differently and most people don’t get that there are such things as echoes (aka “multiple shooters”)

Oldvet
Member
Oldvet

A simple computer search of the Government files by the serial number , don’t kid yourself .

SGT_Wombat
Member
SGT_Wombat

Well if they get the guy and he has ID on him? DUH?!? He’s the owner of the firearm. Otherwise, like San Bernardino, we didn’t find out about the straw buyer for days. I think you’re wrong, nobody is woken up outside of business hours. If you have a storefront that’s where the FFL is not your home, so they don’t know where to knock and have to wait for business hours.

24and7
Member
24and7

It is about time for this realization…. a lot of people have a misconception that background checks are destroyed after a certain amount of time.. they have a huge database of every single background check… finally the word is getting around we had registration all along.. now they need to focus on the truth of all gun companies being forced to send initial ballistic testing results for every gun made to a national database.. some companies were doing it voluntarily before they were forced to (Ruger)..

Will Flatt
Member

Right. Why identify who owns what gun when you can just ID gun owners themselves? And it’s not like the government can’t connect all your online activity and your probable gun ownership!

What people need to do is join or form up citizen militias, train to the highest possible standards & proficiency, and be ready for when the door-to-door raids begin!

SGT_Wombat
Member
SGT_Wombat

Well, IF that’s the case then they ARE breaking the law. BUT, BALLISTIC testing, really? WOW. Put your tinfoil hat back on,

RoyD
Member
RoyD

Apparently, DingBat, you are woefully unaware of what has gone on in the past. You might want to educate yourself before putting your foot in your mouth again.

Alan in NH
Member
Alan in NH

The police use the info to trace crime guns. I bought a POS Bryco .380 from someone, then sold it to someone else who in turn sold it again. One day a NH Chief of Police called me to say it had been involved in a crime and who did I sell it to? I did not mind helping track it to the convicted felon who got caught with it. The PD called sometime later to say the perp got 2 years. But I agree that universal background checks can’t be allowed. I don’t think the police up here want… Read more »

24and7
Member
24and7

The universal background check has always been here.. they are just tired of keeping it a secret.. the police chief calling you was proof we have registration of firearms..

SGT_Wombat
Member
SGT_Wombat

No, they just get the ORIGINAL purchaser from the 4473

Heed the Call-up
Member
Heed the Call-up

So, you really believe tracing the firearm to you solved the crime? And you are satisfied the perp received a two year prison term for a crime that carries a minimum 5-year mandatory federal sentence? There is more wrong with this than your belief in tracking our firearm ownership and the slap on the wrist that the perp got.

Oldvet
Member
Oldvet

OK “FREDO”

SGT_Wombat
Member
SGT_Wombat

Really, you kept a record of who you sold the gun to? And THAT person kept a record of who HE sold the gun to? Who needs the government with “citizens” like you? The last person who sold the gun, that was used in a crime, should have his/her head examined because that was obviously a bad choice to sell it.

YourWorstEnemy
Member
YourWorstEnemy

WHOA! Speak for yourself Will/RoyD. I have a huge issue with my guns being forced into this defacto gun registry, and now you gun registration apologist want to have universal background checks. No fucken way. The 4473 is a permission slip for a constitutional right and should be taken out an shot in the head. Thank you to Steve for having the guts to bring it up and point out how fucked it is to have this in America.

RoyD
Member
RoyD

The first thing you should do is remove your head from your rectum. For one thing maybe you’ll stop spewing that crap you have been licking up and things will also smell better. No need to thank me.

Bill
Member
Bill

enemy? WILL and Royd are the types who would swear up and down that the government is here to help us, that’s all. With “friends” like them……. No unity, internal strife, weak knees, no spine, no balls. Some will be willing to give it all many others wont. They’ll be the rich “sportsmen” who only have shotguns or bolt actions and they think none of this will effect “their” sport and they see no reason for us to have the types of guns we like, no use for them and nobody NEEDS that. That’s the attitude and that’s the problem,… Read more »

Will
Member
Will

@Bill,I can’t speak for RoyD,but I will say this. The 4473 at the point of sale on firearms has been around for decades. It’s amazing to me that so many people seem shocked about it. I called it a non-problem because the 4473 doesn’t mean that you still own that firearm !

RoyD
Member
RoyD

It must be painful to be you. My condolences.

SGT_Wombat
Member
SGT_Wombat

80% lowers, you can get AR lowers, Glock and 1911. Not a firearm 🙂

Will
Member
Will

@Steve,just as RoyD said,because the regulars writers don’t need to address a non-problem that everyone and their brother already knows

RoyD
Member
RoyD

The reason you don’t see people “addressing this concern”, Steve, is that it is common knowledge. Furthermore it’s not worth working up a sweat over. That’s why.