Hey America! FYI We Are A Republic, NOT a Democracy

Opinion

USA – -(Ammoland.com)- The New York Times has begun a major initiative, the “1619 Project,” to observe the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery.

It aims to reframe American history so that slavery and the contributions of black Americans explain who we are as a nation. Nikole Hannah-Jones, staff writer for The New York Times Magazine wrote the lead article, “America Wasn't a Democracy, Until Black Americans Made It One.” She writes, “Without the idealistic, strenuous and patriotic efforts of black Americans, our democracy today would most likely look very different — it might not be a democracy at all.”

There are several challenges one can make about Hannah-Jones' article, but I'm going to focus on the article's most serious error, namely that the nation's founders intended for us to be a democracy.

That error is shared by too many Americans. The word democracy appears nowhere in the two most fundamental founding documents of our nation — the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. Instead of a democracy, the Constitution's Article IV, Section 4, declares, “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government.”

Think about it and ask yourself whether our Pledge of Allegiance says to “the democracy for which it stands” or to “the republic for which it stands.” Is Julia Ward Howe's popular Civil War song titled “The Battle Hymn of the Democracy” or “The Battle Hymn of the Republic”?

The founders had utter contempt for democracy.

James Madison, the acknowledged father of the Constitution, wrote in Federalist Paper No. 10, that in a pure democracy “there is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual.” At the 1787 Constitutional Convention, delegate Edmund Randolph said, “that in tracing these evils to their origin every man had found it in the turbulence and follies of democracy.” John Adams said: “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Marshall observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.”

The U.S. Constitution is replete with anti-majority rule, undemocratic provisions. One provision, heavily criticized, is the Electoral College. In their wisdom, the framers gave us the Electoral College so that in presidential elections, heavily populated states could not run roughshod over sparsely populated states. In order to amend the Constitution, it requires a two-thirds vote of both Houses, or two-thirds of state legislatures, to propose an amendment, and requires three-fourths of state legislatures for ratification. Part of the reason for having a bicameral Congress is that it places another obstacle to majority rule. Fifty-one senators can block the wishes of 435 representatives and 49 senators. The president, with a veto, can thwart the will of all 535 members of Congress. It takes a two-thirds vote, not just a majority, of both houses of Congress to override a presidential veto.

In addition to not understanding our Constitution, Hannah-Jones' article, like in most discussions of black history, fails to acknowledge that black Americans have made the greatest gains, over some of the highest hurdles in the shortest span of time than any other racial group in mankind's history. The evidence: If black Americans were thought of as a nation with our own gross domestic product, we'd rank among the 20 wealthiest nations. It was a black American, Gen. Colin Powell, who headed the world's mightiest military. A few black Americans are among the world's wealthiest. Black Americans are among the world's most famous personalities.

The significance of this is that in 1865, neither a slave nor a slave owner would have believed that such progress would be possible in less than a century and a half, if ever. As such, it speaks to the intestinal fortitude of a people. Just as importantly, it speaks to the greatness of a nation within which such progress was possible, progress that would have been impossible anywhere else.

The challenge before us is how those gains can be extended to a large percentage of black people for whom they appear elusive.


Walter E.Williams
Walter E. Williams

About Walter E.Williams

Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University. Williams is also the author of several books. Among these are The State Against Blacks, later made into a television documentary, America: A Minority Viewpoint, All It Takes Is Guts, South Africa's War Against Capitalism, More Liberty Means Less Government, Liberty Versus The Tyranny of Socialism, and recently his autobiography, Up From The Projects.

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    Whodaty
    Member
    Whodaty

    Whoa there NY Times, on that thar 1619 initiative! You’re short changing our First Nations bretherin and sisterin aren’t ya’? They “traditionally” practiced kidnapping and slavery as far back as who knows when. Eh? You better include them, and set that date back a few years or millennia. In fact, Slavery was and still is common practice in a lot of places, if I understand the news correctly. The news is always correct, is it not? Better yet, quit stirring that pot. That stew is old and well spoiled by now and by stirring, you are just perpetuating the division… Read more »

    Dave
    Member
    Dave

    It does not require much thought to realize that a true democracy always results in the oppression of the minority. That fact is so simple and so obvious that it is very difficult to realize why so many people fail to grasp it.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @Dave

    Indeed. Worse yet are the people who do grasp it, but are intentionally trying to get us there for the purpose of destroying the city on the hill.

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    @Walter E. Williams, an excellent piece. THANK YOU!

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @Grunt, That made me realize something important. If a republic were a kind of democracy, then would Dr. Williams have written an article entitled, “Hey America! FYI We Are A Republic, NOT a Democracy”

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    Ok, so Ammolands new Comment system does not organize responses in order of when they are made to a given original thread the way the old one kept them in chronological order. Getting that out of the way, We seem to have an issue here with a certain individual. What started with an idea proposed that Rupublics are a type of Democracy has lead to the original poster now trying to twist and change his comments as he moves forward when what he started out with was proven wrong. He has had an in depth description of the differences between… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    In case anyone was wondering I am the person being referred to here, but I never said they were the same thing or that they were interchangeable. This is a point he refuses to give up on though. By the way, this is a much better response then his original one where he simply explained the difference between the two, even though I never said they were the same and already knew those differences. Had this been is original response it would have been an acceptable one. But it took me quite a long time to coax it out of… Read more »

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    Nice Try, but no JMR, and still looks like you are butt hurt. Not to mention you seem to have trouble counting, since I gave you a difference between three, not two. Ok, so here is why JMR is lying now. Had he waited a few minutes to an hour, he would have been able to stop himself. See, he already caved on the interchangeability aspect of his original comment. He ended up coming back and trying to say “Its all semantics, it doesn’t matter what its called cause we still have issues!” Whoops…. JMR, remember what I said about… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, well I’ve addressed that as you brought it up elsewhere, though I’m sure it won’t be to your liking. There was nothing for me to change before, because you weren’t getting to the crux of the problem in my mind, now this is probably my fault since I should have articulated that clearly, for that I apologize, in the future I’ll have to do a better job. Here’s the thing, if I hadn’t thought of something how could I think to say “i hadn’t thought of that let me do more research”and I have said that I worded… Read more »

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR So instead of asking for clarification, you instead choose to defend your original position for two days, intentionally lie about what was said, realize you got caught in the lie, then tell everyone “wow I’ve really changed” while still insisting what you said in the first instance was not wrong? I didn’t ask why, I asked if you wanted to keep digging. The problem with a liar is they cannot let go of the lie until it completely destroys them. That’s why you are still here, because if you cant admit you were wrong, so instead you reword it… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, Why admit that I was wrong when I knew it wouldn’t change anything or be believed? I already admitted it was wrong and you’re still asking me to do it?

    That doesnt seem like a genuine offer to me giving the above.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR Except you didn’t. You’ve said you may have misstated things, or other people misunderstood you. Look at what you are doing now for example. “Why Admit I was wrong when…” and “I already did admit it.” It’s a little bait and switch tactic to avoid answering what I asked you at the end of my last comment. Two opposing statements made together to try and get the focus off of you. Well, If you did directly come out and state that the original position you held was wrong without any attempt at denying it within the comment or shifting… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, I said I was wrong, I apologized, I’m not doing it again. And no I don’t believe its genuine, I have no reason to, why would I believe a guy who continues to call me a liar? Who said I faked a disease? (Assuming the current definition of malady is correct, never heard that word before) Who calls me blind for not seeing something on a website? Or who thinks when I say “I do not get what you are getting at” that I am still trying to blame others? Why would anyone want to learn something from… Read more »

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR Oh wow. After the treatment you gave to Tomcat and Wild Bill, you are going to whine about being chastised? You’re getting chastised because you were wrong and decided to run your mouth at others. You just had a chance to prove me wrong by posting what you claimed you had already done, but you are refusing to(Most likely because you didn’t actually do it and don’t have a comment to provide as an example.) Now as to you not “Getting it”. You have had no less than five people taking time to explain in depth to you. Instead… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, whine? No just stating given that it doesnt seem genuine. And no I’ve literally never heard or read Malady before. And why would I add that? Well people said the definitions of words have been changed to suit agendas, I have never heard that word, I put that in to clarify that. Hey Wild Bill Tomcat, UsmcGrunt, I apologize for insulting you, I should have went about it a different way, regardless of what I should have done what I did do was wrong. Also anyone else I might have offended I can’t think of. I don’t think… Read more »

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR

    This may indeed be your first decent post, though you did intentionally misconnect what the “whine” assertion was tied to.

    Thank you for apologizing to the others who you got nasty towards.

    If nothing else you learned here that Malady means more than just an illness, and why Democracy and Republic are not synonyms.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator to be crass your thanks there doesn’t matter.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR

    Just like whether or not you accept it doesn’t matter. 🙂

    See that’s how the truth works. It is completely in disregard to personal opinion. If someone does something stupid I call them out on it. If they say something that is correct I give them credit for doing so, nothing more, nothing less.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, Two more Our Fathers, another Hail Mary, and another donation to … CCRKBA!

    Will
    Member
    Will

    You’ve never been stove up with some strange malady and missed a week or two of work ?

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, Five Our Fathers, two Hail Marys, AND a donation to GOA or SAF, either is fine.

    Will
    Member
    Will

    @TheRev,what’s wrong with that ole boy? Kinda tick bit ain’t he ?

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @Will

    He just spent three days trying to argue with me.

    Hmm, That reminds me… I wonder when Green Watch Dog is going to be released out of the home. Havent heard from his doctors since he went in. 🙂

    Will
    Member
    Will

    @TheRev,come to think of it I haven’t seen him post nothing in quite a while. How long has GWD been in that home ? Keep me posted. Take care,brother !

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @Will

    He’s been gone a few months now. Spent almost 5 months destroying his psyche, and apparently just after I was in my car accident earlier this year he decided to go at someone else and accidently doxed himself. Poor little guy just couldnt help himself.

    If you remember Inspector Dreyfus, I think GWD has it worse than him and will not be out of the home for many many years.

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    @JMR, just a suggestion, do your research before you post what may appear to others as statements of fact. That could possible ease the waters.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @USMC0351Grunt

    Or he could try not lying for a change, or altering his story, and combine that with your idea that he put a little more thought into it before writing.

    If he could just get those down he might indeed have fewer problems.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @USMC0351Grunt, and if my research is wrong I’ll just be accused of lying, so I doubt it. I mean I literally have a post apologizing for spelling errors that people downvoted.

    Nah, I’m use to rough seas… well lakes.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR
    It was more your inability to admit your previous research was wrong when you defended it, then tried to cover up your previous attempts with distractions and an evolving story line that got you called out for lying.

    Also, since I have not thumbs upped or downed any of your comments yet, those who did most likely only did so to your spelling correction comment because of your attitude and actions in all your other comments. You did flip a lot of people’s “Douchbag alarm” with several of your initial comments.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, whis is interesting isn’t it? Well not to you, but me.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR

    Oh yes, it is very interesting. Watching someone lie and then repeatedly try to squirm their way out if, stumbling over their own words, having to backtrack when they are offered a chance to prove themselves.

    Yes, watching you devolve over the last couple of days has been both interesting and entertaining.

    Circle8
    Member
    Circle8

    As usual Dr. Williams has proven those who write for the Times suffer from a mental disease. Like Time magazine the NY Times also praised Hitler and he was named person of the year. How did that work out???? Anyone who believes anything the main stream liars er uh media says is crazy. Show me a writer or talking head from ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC or the so called main stream media and I will show you a socialist idiot who like a stock yard is full of cow dung.

    Country Boy
    Member
    Country Boy

    Stated as a Statesman IMHO. That’s a good thing.

    hoggiesan
    Member
    hoggiesan

    Thank you. This has been a pet peeve of mine for…can’t remember how long. And trying to explain it to folks, just is amazing, they claim to have gone through high school and do not have a clue.

    MICHAEL J
    Member
    MICHAEL J

    Democracy simply put is mob rule. History is replete with examples of a majority creating their own form of government which exempts itself from the laws of humanity.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    It’s a semantic argument, even if everyone agrees and said “we are a republic.” It solves no issues. The people were never meant to have this much power, the answer is to remove some of it not grant them more.

    gregs
    Member
    gregs

    where the hell do you get this idea from, I hope that was sarcasm. the Constitution gives the “people” the power not the government. a question to you, which of your civil liberties are you willing to give up? me, not a freaking one, I want more liberty.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Gregs it’s in the constitution.
    It’s funny, people will argue all day how a republic is different from a democracy because it limits people’s power, but you make the suggestion that we should go back to the limits set in the constitution as it was originally written, they freak out and downvote you.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, which specific Article, and clause are you referring to?

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill article 1 section three (pre 17th amendment). Also repeal the 15th 19th and 26th amendment.
    Also since someone else brought it up, federalist papers number 10, Madison goes into some of the issues with a republic, those issues are present today, I part because of our increase in population while electors and representatives have stayed the same size. It could be argued that those should be increased to one per county of each state. Which would ensure every county gets fair representation in the government, quelling the mob even further.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    Article I, section 3: “The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the legislature thereof for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.” That is your proof for your claim that our system of government is a democracy?
    Is a down vote considered a response for purposes of your pay?

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, again, something I never said. Good lord no one knows how to argue anymore. I said we should limit the power the people have as they weren’t intended to have this much power, someone thought that we’d be giving up our civil liberties, I said funny everyone is complaining how prople having all the power is bad, so we should go back to the way the founding fathers intended, you asked me for an example, I provided it, now your saying ” that’s your basis for why we are a democracy” no in fact in this thread I… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, you are an obtuse communicator.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @wild bill, no people just like making things up, things I never said, also this is a separate thread, focused on a different topic than where I was engaging with you before, keep the ideas separate. I will admit I did mention Democracy in this thread, I posted that when I was fairly busy, though that’s not really the point here, the point here is getting ba k to the republic as originally outlined in the constitution by the founding fathers. Which no one seems to want to do for some reason, even though its held to a high standard,… Read more »

    Get Out
    Member
    Get Out

    @JMR You keep flip-flopping on your responses to other posters, are these not your own words from above that power should be removed from we the people? Do you want the government to be in control of the power of the people you say should be removed? You also stated you considered yourself a radical constitutionalists, so why would you want the power of the people restricted? “It’s a semantic argument, even if everyone agrees and said “we are a republic.” It solves no issues. The people were never meant to have this much power, the answer is to remove… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Get Out, I’m not flip flopping at all. You just keep arguing things I never said. I said that the people were never meant to have this much power. This is true, as i stated previously, and as The Revalolator has also pointed out, as per the original constitution the people were not meant to elect the members of the Senate. The Sentate was supposed to be the States representation in the Union. That power grab has caused all kinds of problems, further the States no longer has the representation it was promised. You just assumed I was talking about… Read more »

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR

    But the fact that you are ignoring JMR, is that the Senate not being Directly Elected and being called to represent the state goes directly against your assertion of Democracy and Republics being interchangeable.

    That is your flip flop. You cant have it both ways.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevaltor, I’ve never asserted such a thing.

    But you thinking I did confirms a few ideas I had.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevalator here’s the thing, I have been thinking and thinking and thinking trying to think of a way that I can get across to you (and others) what exactly I meant when I said “A Republic is a type of Democracy” because I want to hear your argument but you (and others) keep arguing things that I dont find relevant to the main problem. But @Wild Bill said something about Occums Razor that has vexed that process so far, and the continued back and forth doesnt give me much faith that I can say “X” and you all will see… Read more »

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR Trust me, I don’t find it insulting that someone with the intelligence of a 5 year old would have trouble crafting an argument a 5 year old could understand, especially if they don’t have the intellect to get the condescension right. Now I hope you can read fully to the end because I will explain how, not just why. The problem with your argument and why you cant “Reach” anyone is caused by a very simple reason. YOU’RE WRONG! What you are doing is arguing your opinion. Your opinion does not take the place of facts. Now the rest… Read more »

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR Part 2 Now, the reason you are never going to win this debate, or get across to anyone here is because we already know better. I have put a lot of time in here trying to educate people and build them up so when they go out and have family or friends question them they can give a concise answer and not waver when it comes to defending the History of our country and its Constitution. A Republic is not a type of Democracy, and a Constitutional Republic is even more different. Trying to claim they are the same… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevaltor, Win? Oh I see, I suspected as much.
    Winning, losing, these things dont matter to me.

    You have massively misinterpreted my intent, but it wasn’t without it’s own loss either, I learned very much, just nothing I was after. Useful nonetheless.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR
    Obviously not, since you keep expecting to defend a position that was wrong from the start. And that works on both counts.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Therevalator, of course if I have an idea as I said I want to see if it stands. Now i wouldn’t be able to entice out people’s knowledge if i gave up after one person presented one argument. Especially when that argument is t attacking the idea in my mind.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @Just, It is a good thing that losing does not matter to you.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, among other things.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @Rev, And don’t forget changing the definition of marriage from a union between a man and a women into a union of two people.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill A travesty.

    Get Out
    Member
    Get Out

    Political infighting, bribery, corruption, vacant seats etc. caused the States to no longer have the senate representation it was promised and was thus changed by constitutional amendment.

    Direct Election of Senators.
    https://www.cop.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Direct_Election_Senators.htm

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Get Out, yes I know. And all those things still exist.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR

    Second time you’ve done this here. So because the law was violated that makes it ok to push for more things that violate the law? Do you really believe two wrongs make a right?

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevalator, Hmm? I’m afraid I do know what you’re on about.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR I love when a liar denies saying something. Get out points to the fact that Corruption, Bribery, Infighting were used to violate the constitution. Your response is that they still exist. Now, since you are admitting to not be intelligent to connect the two, lets look at a claim you have made multiple times in the past. Do you remember saying anything along the lines of “But there are still violations against our constitution right now, and they are still laws”? Jog any memories? You have a habit of trying to rationalize your arguments at time against others by… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevalator, thank you for clarifying.
    Yes, Get Out pointed out why that amendment was implemented, and yes I said those things still exist today.

    Sure I remember saying something like that.

    I don’t see what you’re getting at here though, are you saying those things dont exist? No I assume you aren’t, so you’re saying that I’m saying because these things exist….. well your argument is that I said we should further violate the constitution.

    Hmm, do you mean when I said we should repeal a bunch of amendments, and expand the electoral college and house?

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    (earlier comment didn’t post, retrying) Trying to shift the blame again. Anyone with at least one eye to read can see what was said. Those things do exist, but just because they exist it doesn’t justify further violation. At the time, you were using it to dismiss Constitutional arguments Further, you mischaracterized the problem within the current system. Notice, instead of keeping the electoral college according to original intent, your thought is to change it, perhaps make it more beneficial to your thinking. Get out got the comment on the Amendment correct, so if that is the main amendment you… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    No I based it on what Madison wrote in Federalist number 10.

    I’ve no doubt you read it.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR

    Yes, I have read it. But I’ve also read the other arguments that are more relevant to our Constitution.

    I’ll let you contemplate that one for a while.

    Get Out
    Member
    Get Out

    I recommend you go and live in NK, Venezuela, China or another known country where the people are suppressed and have no power. Live under their rule and we’ll see if you still think we the people should have them removed.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Get Out, another person arguing points I never said.
    Yes I admit, I believe we should return to the style and form of government that was laid out into that suppressive constitution.

    tomcat
    Member
    tomcat

    @ JMR After reading your explanations to a number of people I am concluding that you have bought into the democratic rhetoric that calls this country a democracy. We have commented on the fact so many times here at Ammoland that they are just plain wrong and are not going to get the chance to change this country into a democracy. Either that or you just like to argue, either way I and several others are not going to be dissuaded by your lack of correct usage of two words.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @tomcat, sure, so you can’t argue your point very well so I must have bought into some scheme, even though I’m the one arguing that we should return to the type of government that was originally described in the constitution.
    Lmao, I’m just one of those radical constitutionalists.
    The irony of the appeal to popularity falsehood here is great considering your position is democracy bad.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @Tcat, Ignore his insults. You make more sense than the just mentally retarded who troll, here.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill … I didn’t insult him, where did I insult him here?

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, Are you so thick that you think, “… so you can’t argue your point very well… ” is not an insult. Or are you just mentally retarded.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, no I dont view it as an insult. Compare it to calling someone mentally retarded for instance, saying that is disrespectful, abusive, scornful. Saying “so you can’t argue your point very well” isn’t disrespectful, abusive, or scornful, hell it’s simply me saying “you are not arguing your point very well” hell I believe Tomcat might be on to something, he might have a point, but I dont think like he does so his point is lost, and all my efforts to try and get him to argue that point better have been in vain. It’s disheartening to me… Read more »

    Huapakechi
    Member
    Huapakechi

    “o”boy (accidentally?) said it best. “The Constitution is a charter of negative liberties” It defines what the government can not do. This contract with the citizens restrains the worst excesses of those in power and gives voice to those the government oppresses.

    https://www.infowars.com/obama-calls-constitution-charter-of-negative-liberties/

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    Well, no wonder that the verbiage is so stilted and backwards, it is a description made up by that poser, Barry Soetoro (AKA Bayrock Obama):

    Infowars.com
    June 12, 2013
    “Long before he was president, Barack Obama was already plotting to overturn the Constitution of the United States. In a chilling 2001 public radio interview, Obama said the Constitution was a “charter of negative liberties,” …”

    KenW
    Member
    KenW

    According to my American Heritage Dictionary, which pre-dates political correctness.
    republic 2. A constitutional form of government, especially a democratic one.
    Our gov’t is, as correctly posted below a republic, it is also a democratic form of government, but no it is not a democracy.

    joefoam
    Member
    joefoam

    Too bad our schools are more concerned with ‘gender studies’ than the construction of our country. Educators are very busy rewriting our history to suit the leftist positions.

    CoosaTotahK9
    Member
    CoosaTotahK9

    We Are A Republic, NOT a Democracy! We do use certain limited democratic methods within our Republic, but, our Republic has a much bigger governmental organizational structure and fundamental constraining laws than any democracy. Unfortunately many politicians and others wrongfully push and brainwash people into the idea of our country being a democracy for their own agenda of power over the masses and to justify the illegal voting on our founding principles, our freedoms, and our very individual Rights. This is done mostly to underhandedly and insidiously advance the tyranny of socialism. Like a frog in hot water we will… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    The basis of our republic, the foundation, is that people hold the power. A democratic principle. Of course our republic is a hybrid of various competing theories, democracy, monarchy, oligarchy, taking the good from each system and carefully weaving it in a way that was supposed to cover the bad. However, we are no longer that, politicians and power hungry fools were able to convince the populous that we should move towards a more pure form of democracy, and thus we amended our constitution giving people more power and taking power away from the states. And people still think that… Read more »

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR

    I really wish you would learn.. I really do.

    The basis of our republic is not that the “People” hold power, but that individuals do. It is the Individual that matters, not the group. That the individual is who holds rights, not the group. That is not a Democratic principle, it is closer to anarchy. That is why 2 people don’t have a right to decide what the right of a third person is by vote.

    Again, you are trying to use Circular Reasoning to justify your opinion.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevalator you again? Strange, this comment of mine existed here this whole time and you bring it up now? Very interesting.

    Though not as interesting as you finally answering the question, I wonder what prompted that.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    Yes, having page loading issues thanks to Ammolands new system placing things in a weird way for me. You may be getting several Comments for a while. Don’t worry.

    Though, that is not as interesting as someone who supposedly tried to say I was no longer worth his time. 🙂

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevalator, well my plans for today changed, and now I’m bored. And you are a wealth of interesting things to learn.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    Yes, more wiggling to escape.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill ‍
    Interesting you and TheRevalator became active at the same time.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR, yes in spite of Wild Bill being around or over twice my age he does stay pretty active.

    Consequently what a pitiful, brainless, and desperate attempt to try and discredit someone by insinuating we may be the same person when we are not.

    The funny thing is you actually don’t actually learn anything. If you had, we would not be here three days later.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, ah you again you attribute malice to me where I had none.

    It is interesting to me only because I was wondering, was he waiting for you to reply? He’s been posting on other threads all day, it was an interesting thing. Though I could have certainly clarified (and should have known how precise I have to be with anything around you) that I meant on this topic.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR
    Preciseness would be helpful, though not necessarily to your arguments. At least it would remove some of your double speak.

    Say, on the question of wondering, it wouldn’t possibly be because he started seeing recent comments show up in the recent comment box now would it. Nahhh… That’s too simple an explanation. Nobody would ever use common sense that way, its just too simple.

    (If you don’t want condescension or malice attributed to you, don’t make it so obvious, or make your excuse when you get caught more believable)

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, it possibly could have, I was wondering if this site had a notification option when I saw that, and now I know it does, a follow option as well.

    And a recent comments box, where might that be? I had no idea that existed on this site. Hell I only yesterday discovered you can change your avatar after seeing someone with one.

    Incidentally, after you calling me an idiot multiple times (or maybe that was just Bill) its reassuring you think I know so much about this website and its recent changes.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR

    You claimed to be someone who has been here a while, but if you missed the recent comments box up near the top of the page right next to the article on the right hand side….. And that is not a recent change. It’s been there for over two years.

    If you have been a regular here for more than a month, the only way you could miss it is either if you are blind, or if youre an idiot.

    Another disingenuous attempt to deflect away from yourself there.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, I come here I read articles I comment sometimes, I don’t explore all the niches of the website

    Maybe it’s because I’m on mobile? Yea I dont see any such thing on mobile.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @Rev, this person seems like he wants me to respond to him, directly. Maybe he is an unpaid volunteer troll. He knows that I never called him an idiot. I merely asked him if he was just mentally retarded (as his initials and poor arguments indicate). The answer is up to him.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @Rev, Twice? On 15 September 1975, I stood on the company street, as a slick sleeve private, at Ft Leonard Wood, for the first time. That is when life began.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @ Wild Bill

    Lets see, if you went in at 18, then that pegs you around a 1957 birthday, or possibly late 1956.

    That puts you just under the twice my age mark. Don’t worry, the older I get the further away from twice it will be. But yes, I’m what you would consider a “Young’un”.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    A republic is a type of democracy.

    tomcat
    Member
    tomcat

    @JMR A Republic is not exactly a type of democracy. We are a Republic and Venezuela is a democracy. See the difference. Try looking it up.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @tomcat no it is exactly a type of democracy.

    tomcat
    Member
    tomcat

    @ JMR You didn’t bother to look it up did you? there is a very big difference, one is run by the citizens and one is run by a dictator. You figure out which is which. Two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @tomcat I would not sell your services as a psychic. I did look it up, and yes a Repulic is a Type of Domocracy. Shit, that didn’t go as you planned. Further, let’s say that it wasn’t a semantic argument, let’s say the form of government set up by the founding fathers was special and unique, enough so that it warrants it’s own classification supreme above all else. Our current government is no longer that government, through amendments to the constitution we have drastically changed how our government works, placing more and more and more power into the hands of… Read more »

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    Uh? The power was ALWAYS in the hands of We the People however over the centuries and especially the last four to five decades, we the people have become, we the sheeple and have waned their power and authority because they have been dumbed down on purpose. You should remember that around the time you were talking about Republic and democracy in your civics class?

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    Yes and no, the Senate was never meant to be elected by the people, it is now thanks to the 17th amendment. Which causes issues, you can have a Republican Governor and two Democrat Senators who were elected in part because of one major city.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR thank you for recognizing the flaw of the 17th amendment, but doing so also highlights the fact that America was never meant to be a democracy

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevelator, not a direct one no, but as I said, and as others have unknowingly themselves admitted, a republic is a type of democracy.

    Though, dont go recommending we go ba k to what the founding fathers intended, the mob will get mad.

    Mike Carbine
    Member
    Mike Carbine

    Liberal democracy is a liberal political ideology and a form of government in which representative democracy operates under the principles of classical liberalism. Also called Western democracy, it is characterised by elections between multiple distinct political parties, a separation of powers into different branches of government, the rule of law in everyday life as part of an open society, a market economy with private property and the equal protection of human rights, civil rights, civil liberties and political freedoms for all people. To define the system in practice, liberal democracies often draw upon a constitution, either formally written or uncodified,… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @MC, Interesting. Where did you get it?

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, hmm I wonder, what you did here with 6 words that warrants a downvote. Ah yes,you just hinted ever so slightly that you might possibly consider something against the mob. The same mob you appealed to before in an attempt to say I’m wrong. Hahaha

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, Or it may have been you! Making a vote that way would allow you to make that observation. Now, if there were several, your point might be valid, as you can only vote once.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill I have no reason to downvote you, I could upvote it and push it to 0 or downvote it and send it to 2. I don’t believe I’ve down voted anyone, because most people are saying things I agree with conceptually or arguing things I never said, and I dont care that much anyways.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    Yes, you do. You want it to look like your so called “mob” turned on me. What a cheap trick. What a laugh. Whata maroon!

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, no because even if they up vote you they can still be considered a mob. The thing is the mob always thinks they’re in the right.

    See I have what is known as Principles, and I’m not going to down vote someone to prove a point, because that’s just weird. Though it is strange it popped into your mind so easily.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR “Principles” based on Bad Information are not principles. Being right has nothing to do with being in a mob or whether you are going against the system. What you are describing is the idea of opinions being right, and that is not what decides what is right. Evidence proves fact, facts show truth. That is the equation. You are never going to change reality to where your opinion over rules evidence and fact, sorry it just is never going to happen. That is why you are wrong here, and raging about it is never going to change the outcome… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevalator, Facts, Truth, immediately assumes things about me they cannot prove factually. Offended? Me? Lmao, never in my life has anyone been able to offend me. See here’s the thing, I don’t assume I’m correct, it’s the reverse, I assume I’m wrong. I do this because I dont think I’m the smartest person, I dont claim to be, so if I have a thought, why would it be correct? No If i have an idea, I do everything I can to break it down and find its flaws, with the help of others. The thing is others often say things… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, What you have is an huge ego that does not allow you to admit when your opinions are spurious, or are you just mentally retarded.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, I dont think either is true, but go ahead and have your opinion, I really dont care.

    RoyD
    Member
    RoyD

    I was surprised by the “up vote-down vote” addition. It serves no good purpose. If you feel strongly enough about what someone wrote you should support or counter it with your own thoughts on the subject. Isn’t that the purpose of this forum in the first place?

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @Roy, good point. An anonymous down vote supports his little ruse. A comment with his name on it would not!
    Mob indeed. Mob of gentlemen.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, ah yes that’s why I had ammoland install that little feature.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @RoyD, might be exactly the reason for it’s implementation, to cut down on certain comments reducing spam and other things.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR A republic is not “A type of Democracy.” Tomcat has you beat on this no matter how you try to argue it. A Republic is a representative government which uses a limited democratic process(the process is not the same as a Democracy). We as the united states are an even more restricted form, that of a Constitutional Republic, where a constitution sets the rules and limits the powers and abilities of government as a further protection against the idea of “Democracy”. The best lesson that shows this is the original plan for the senate. A democracy is nothing more… Read more »

    tomcat
    Member
    tomcat

    @ Rev. Good explanation. I didn’t think it was necessary to go into a whole lot of detail to someone that lives in the U.S. of A.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @tomcat So much detail that he proved my point.
    Lol

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, No, I do not think that he proved your point. He explained that the voting part only fills the seats that are created by the framework that is referred to as a Constitution.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, oh were not a form of democracy we just use democracy to elect people.
    By the way, again arguing points I never made.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, Nope, we just use the mechanism of voting to fill the seats that are created by the framework called the Constitution.

    gcm
    Member
    gcm

    @WB, is JMR possibly Clark kent in disguise?

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @GCM, nah I’m not superman.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @gmc, maybe, but Clark usually mouths off then goes back to sleep.

    Will
    Member
    Will

    gcm,Clark Kent’s new handle is Superman !

    Huapakechi
    Member
    Huapakechi

    You neglect the effects of federal interference in public education since the department of education was founded.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    Oh boy I haven’t seen you since you failed to understand what negative rights and positive rights were. And you’re still getting things wrong. I like how you try and prove me wrong by explaining how a repulic is… you know what I’ll quote you “A Republic is a representative government which uses a limited democratic process” Oh… well that changes everything. If we look at it as a tree, you would have Democracy at the top, with branches going off from it to show the different types of democracy’s, under that would be republic, which as you yourself have… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @tomcat @TheRevalotor, let’s break it down as simply as we can, tell me who has the power in a Democracy, and who has the power in a Republic?

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    In a republic the people hold the power in a democracy the dictator holds the power.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    A dictatorship would be a monarchy. And no, if you would read any of the people who think they’re proving me wrong you would see the Democracy is movie rule, one person is not a mob.
    Jesus people you can’t even agree amongst yourselves.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, I think that everyone that has read your writing has quite cordially agreed among ourselves to reject your theories and descriptions.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @wild bill, and? I was waiting for someone to pull the “appeal to popularity” fallacy. It is especially rich when it is done in an argument where people are trying to point out why democracy is bad.

    Well I never want for entertainment in the AmmoLand comments.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @USMC0351Grunt If JMR wasn’t so dead set on being wrong and displaying so as proudly as he could, he might have stopped to think. A monarchy is a Dictatorship of one. But what about when the Dictator is a single Party, which does constitute a mob. While he was busy lambasting Wild Bill for a fallacy, he ignored the fact that he was busy committing one himself. So far what he has demonstrated when it comes to fallacies, I have noted Suppressed Correlatives, Circular Reasoning, Proof by Assertion, and as he just did against Wild Bill, Appealing the Motive. At… Read more »

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR I already did break it down for you. But to reiterate here you go. 1, Democracy ~Mob Rule. 50.1% rules over the other 49.9%. It is simply Majority rules with no consideration of the side of the loser. This is not the same as “Democratic Process.” This is why the left tries very hard to tie the word Democracy to socialism, calling for Democratic Socialism, in other words the Masses vote to take what the few have. The most accurate form of government to exemplify Democracy is actually Communism, where everyone takes a vote and the social majority wins… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevalator, you didn’t really answer the question, I asked who holds the power in a Docracy, and who holds the power in a Republic. You did not answer that question, simple as it is.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, To whom are you replying.
    I would apply Occam’s Razor to trim your tree. Any analogy that is intentionally made so complicated, can not be right. The author of such convolutions must have other motives.
    And where do you get this “positive and negative” rights theory?
    Who promulgates such a theory or did you make it up yourself?

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @wild bill, well just look up a few posts, someone else has used it as well a huap…. something.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, Let me rephrase. Which author uses the terms positive rights and negative rights that you have been reading or did you make this up yourself?
    I did not ask about Huapakechi. A clever little distraction like that tells me that you have not been reading anyone authoritative. Also, governments in the US have no rights, positive, negative, or something in between. Didn’t you know? Governments, under our Constitution only have powers and authorities.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, boy you call me retarded and now you want me to tell you where I first heard/read the term? I dont have a great memory, I didn’t read it, I believe I first heard it when listening to a bunch of conservative talk radio back in the day, you know Beck, Levin, Wilkow, Shapiro, that kind of stuff.

    I believe, again though you’re asking a lot of a retard. Lmao.

    Oh also I never said the government has rights… not sure where you got that from.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    A radio interview, in which, the non scholar, Barry Soetoro, used the made up term charter of negative liberties is no reference.
    Invalid terminology, by a non scholar, never used in Constitutional analysis leads you to a wrong conclusion.Yet, you embrace it. Were you in my ConLaw course, you would flunk.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, it’s not a concept made by Barry Soetoro or me, it’s a concept that’s been used a long time.
    Oh you’re a professor? Well that explains a lot, as you can see in the multitude of replies people dont seem to like your kind here.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @@JMR, Nope, I can only trace it back to Barry Soetoro (aka Bayrock Obama) and his radio interview.
    I did not say that I am a professor. Where did you get that? I was writing in the subjunctive mood. Oh … I see. You don’t understand subjunctive mood. Skipped English class, too? Well, that explains a lot.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, well when you said you had a ConLaw class I just believed you, I guess that was a lie? A personal fault of mine, I take people for their word.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @MR, I did not write that I teach a Con Law class. The sentence is written in the subjective mood. You personal fault is that you ignored your 7th grade English class. That explains why you are such a poor communicator, and obtuse logician.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, hmm I was certain I laid on the sarcasm heavy there.

    Tell me, was sarcasm 1st grade English or 2nd grade? Did you forget it, or did you fail it?

    Knute
    Member
    Knute

    And in a Constitutional Republic the difference is that the Constitution is agreed upon by a supermajority, and is the supreme law of the land, and cannot be changed by 50.1 percent of the vote, like a Democracy can. In a Democracy if 50.1% vote to kill the other 49.9%, that’s the rule. Whatever the slight majority votes for IS the law. In a Republic there is a check upon that “tyranny of the majority”. The Constitution cannot be changed by a simple majority vote. Even the few tattered remnants that we have left are STILL in there protecting us.… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    They’re a great read and an even better addition to the library.
    I’m always confused though, when people think that explaining the disadvantages of a pure democracy somehow prove a republic isn’t a democracy.
    You’re arguing something I never said, with points i agree with, and not proving or even providing evidence to the point you say you are.

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    @JMR? You’re so full of s*** that Charmin couldn’t help you!

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    @JMR, now see Revelator paid attention in class!

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    @JMR, Gee? I wonder why Webster’s created TWO different WORDS with TWO different definitions for Republic and democracy?

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    Dictionaries dont create words…
    And why would there be two words, because they are different things, I never said they were the same thing, that is a false idea people here are arguing because they’re idiots.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, So … because people read your writings and reject your ideas, they are idiots? Most Stalinistic of you.
    Perhaps you should review your writings and recompute.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, not at all, they’re idiots because they’re arguing things I never said.
    Oh boy I’m glad people have been able to bring up both marx and stalin, I wonder who else we can dredge up in this conversation. Hahahahaha

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    This is not the first time JMR has argued these theories people. Several months back he tried arguing the issue of “Positive Rights”, or rights created by the Government. He also lost that Argument back then since he tried to apply it to the US. Simply reading the US Constitution was enough to defeat that Argument, as the 9th and 10th amendments state that all Rights not present or listed in the Constitution already belong to the people inherently and are not the purview of the Government. Unfortunately, JMR wants to be seen as right, wants his own opinions vindicated… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevalator, ah so you do remember, well at least you can tell Wild Bill who appears to think I’m a paid troll I’ve been around for a long time. Though your memory seems to be a bit fuzz, you seem to be saying things I was saying, further you have positive rights and negative rights backwards. As i always said in that argument the co institution is a negative rights argument, which means it recognized people have all the rights and the constitution sets what the government is able to do. Which would make several things unconstitutional, yet they remain… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    Holy crap there’s a lot of spelling errors in this post of mine, I apologize people I just switched phones and the keyboard layout is weird, and I rarely proofread.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR The problem is that it is your argument that is trash. YES, I do remember. That is why you are the one misusing definitions and blurring your memory. The argument you made before had to do with positive rights, or the idea that Government can discover or create rights. You understood that the Constitution is a restriction against government, but you Tried to blend in your own opinions of what you wanted to be true particularly the idea of positive rights. You lost that argument previously for the very same reasons why you lost your arguments here. What you… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevalator, wait why the hell are you Quoting Wild Bill and Haup when talking about my arguments?

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, Lots of people quote me. You will be quoting me.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, well who’s the arrogant one now? Lol

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevalator, well that is disappointing though completely expected. Maybe it’s my inability to articulate to you my thoughts, or maybe it’s you jumping to things I never said and never intended, but it’s clear to me that you are not getting what I am saying. There are times when I am completely baffled as to where you came up with these things I said (like how you said I said Democracy and Republic is interchangeable when I said no such thing) I am not arrogant, and I try very hard to work on any ignorance that was the singular purpose… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, You write, ” There are times when I am completely baffled as to where you came up with these things … ” Well, I think that I know where we came up with these things. You wrote them! Infra: ” …A republic is a type of democracy…” “If we look at it as a tree, you would have Democracy at the top, with branches going off from it to show the different types of democracy’s, under that would be republic, …” “… I asked who holds the power in a Docracy, and who holds the power in a Republic…”… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, yes as you can see in the quote you dig up from me.

    Nowhere did I say, that a Republic and Democracy were the same, or interchangeable.

    Nowhere did I say America was meant to be a direct Democracy.

    Yet those are some of the points you guys kept bringing up.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    Yep, it is your inability, and yes, you are arrogant. No one concurs with your definitions, so they are idiots. That is the very essence of arrogance.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, no if you don’t agree with my definitions (well really the dictionarys definition, and well root word definitions) I dont think you’re an idiot.
    I think you’re and idiot when you argue against something I never said. That was assumed on your part. (I’m not using you’re, your, or you here directed at you Wild Bill, it can be subbed with anybody who has done such a thing)

    No in fact, as always if you disagree all you have to do is tell me why, and I’ll look into it, as I always do.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @Rev, He strung us along for many responses. What makes you think he is not paid? He is certainly not the learned person that he portrays himself as.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild Bill, if I was a troll based on interactions like you implied, I could and would do a much better job, and I certainly wouldn’t come back to a post that has fallen off of a front page.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @Wild Bill He’s not paid, he’s just butt hurt and starting to lie outright. He’s mad no body is buying into his snake oil. So lets look a few over shall we. “A republic is a type of democracy” Yes, his original position. Seems though he’s upset now for being called out for suggesting that they are interchangeable and is trying to say he never said such a thing. Big lie right there. “… as I said, and as others have unknowingly themselves admitted, a republic is a type of democracy…” Ok, gotta love this one Because I know I… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevaltor, well you seem to keep pushing the idea that I said they were interchangeable, if this were true your (or wild bill) would have quoted that, but you haven’t. Like the media when they claim Trunp says something, they never actually quote him do they? Do you? I’ll give credit to wild Bill for being honest there at least. I haven’t pushed positive rights at all, I only brought it up to see if you remembered same for negative rights. But that is something you clung to for some reason. No in fact I don’t think I’ve used that… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @Just, I do not want any credit from you. You are just wriggling. Second para is more forensic wriggling. Third, more wriggling. Last, do what ever you think is best, but the future is bright with lots of work to do.
    Why don’t you just change your call sign, change your argument, change your presentation and come into the light.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Wild BIll, why dont I change my call sign? Because as I said I dont care about things like that, why should I?

    Come into the light, hmm, I fail to see why you spent all this time arguing if you want me to go to the other side, don’t know that I would call them the light either.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR You see, I was waiting for you to double down and dare me to quote you. Already answered it in part on another comment, but here it is again for good measure. “It’s a semantic argument, even if everyone agrees and said “we are a republic.” It solves no issues” Its funny, but if you try to dismiss the idea of your own words implying that “Republics are a type of Democracy” as an interchangeable or relatable idea as being Semantics, you have already admitted that is what you were doing. No different than the political double speak we… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, well then we can let this die and address it there shall we?

    Hmm Bill Clinton, all I’m going to say to that is that the Clinton’s are wonderful people, and that I’m happy with my life and am not suicidal.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR Quite glad you are not suicidal either, because nobody buying into a falsehood you presented might have severe impacts on your self esteem. As I stated in the comment towards the very top of the page however, you do have a right to be wrong, and you do have a right to voice your opinion even if it is wrong. If you can be happy with that as your life, good. However its hard to believe you when you spend three days trying to tell people your opinion is right, lamenting why you aren’t reaching them, and finally having… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, it was a joke about the Clinton body count.

    I thought that was obvious @Wild Bill you got that one didn’t you?

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR,
    Yes, but why let you wiggle out of something with an obvious distraction.

    Trust me, that ones not nearly as funny as my “Upcoming Epstein Suicide” Hillary Shirt.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, distraction no, a joke, to try and wrap up this particular thread. A failed one, no surprise there.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR
    So trying a “Joke to end a thread”….

    Kinda like a distraction to move away from a topic, as opposed to if you really wanted to transition to another thread where you might just stop replying here and continue it there? 🙂

    Kinda like saying “It wasn’t a distraction! It’s a diversion!” Say, I was thinking about putting in a inground pool out back and may have need of an expert like yourself. (Lesson 1)

    Will
    Member
    Will

    “What we got here,.is a failure to communicate” !

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @Will

    Yes, though JMR is neither cool, has any idea what do to with his hands, or possibly named Luke.

    Will
    Member
    Will

    @TheRev,how’s it been going my friend ? Trying to hunt down a holster for WB,but I got to get some additional info from him.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @Will

    Not bad my friend, living the dream you know.
    Not sure what Wild Bill is looking for, but my tastes in holsters have always been nice leather.

    If you and WB are the same, I highly recommend “Montana’s Best Pine Pitch Blend” for treating it. Great for boots too. Waterproofs, Conditions, really great stuff.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @Will and Rev, I am searching for a black leather, basket weave, holster for a Charter Arms Bulldog Target model, 4.2 inch barrel. I’ve been shopping all day. Tried the major makers DeSantis, Bianchi, etc. I may have stumbled upon something. A Barsony #45-4BL. I usually use Lexol for Equine leather. That is leather for horse tack, not horse hide. Lest anyone get the wrong impression. I am going to check out Montana’s Best Pine Pitch Blend. I have to feed critters out in the hot Texas sun, just now, but at vespers I will be praying that a certain… Read more »

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @Wild Bill Ok, Don’t let yourself get dehydrated out in that furnace. Sounds like you are looking for something similar to the old Galco Service holsters from the early 80’s. My dad wore a few for some of his law enforcement work with Model 19’s and 29’s when he was out west. Single top thumbstrap, closed bottom. If nothing else, you might get hold of a Basket weave stamp from a supplier like Tandy Leather and modify a holster like that Barsony, though it may not work as well as starting with flat fresh leather. Commendations on your choice of… Read more »

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    NOT! What school did you go to where you never paid attention and Civics and history class?

    Whitesfyre
    Member
    Whitesfyre

    @JMR: Tomcat and the others are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! You are confusing two words with very different independent meanings and definitions. A ‘Republic’ that uses a democratic process is not the same as a ‘Democracy’. A’ Democracy’ is a total Marxist process giving the power of the many over the few.
    Examples: DPRK, DPRC, USSR, DPRG, CCCP these were and are democracies.

    Whitesfyre
    Member
    Whitesfyre

    BTW none of those not-a-one mentioned were republics they were ALL however Marxist Democracies. Commies will play your freedom away from you with word games and subversion.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @Whitesfyre I try to be completely fair in my dealings, calling people out when they are wrong factually, and giving them proper credentials when they say something right regardless of what side they are. I remember who you are and what you have done in the past, and you were wrong about that. However, here you have posted two comments in a row which were both spot on and factual. You deserve cred for that. JMR apparently however is self Projecting towards them because of his own concoction of mental gymnastics. Personally, I hope this is a change for the… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @whitesfyre, no they’re wrong as are you. Hell the premise of you’re whole argument is based on a concoction of you’re own mind, as it’s certainly not something I said. Jeez now this guy is calling it marxists.
    So far a democracy has been called, mob rule, a dictatorship, and Marxism, all by guys who say they agree with each other that I’m wrong, but all who have different definitions of what a Docracy is. Lmao.

    Wild Bill
    Member
    Wild Bill

    @JMR, You should not get upset about the feedback that all of these gentlemen are giving you, for free, and time out of their busy schedules. They are like mirrors, reflecting back to you that the product of your thoughts are fucked up.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @wild Bill, upset? I’m so greatly entertained! This is the best comedy I could have asked for. Are you projecting perhaps?

    Huapakechi
    Member
    Huapakechi

    ***Examples: DPRK, DPRC, USSR, DPRG, CCCP these were and are democracies.***
    Unfortunately for the subjects of those governments, “democratic” communism is merely a front for personality cult dictatorship.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    That is why they are all called Republics, though they hold up the word Democracy as a red herring much like JMR is doing. Take a look at the systems I described in detail involving the differences between Democracies, Republics, And Constitutional Republics. Each of the three are different, and what often gets ignored is that Communism and Socialism, the children of Marxist thought, are both present in Republics and Democracies. This is what makes America unique out of the entire worlds history, it was the first of its kind, and the most idyllic in form. To see how many… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevalator, again, I never said they were the same. Why you keep implying I did is beyond me.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR Because you did, and you are lying about it. Stating that “a republic is a type of Democracy” implied that they are interchangeable. Not only that, you have specifically stated to Wild Bill with arrogance that others here agreed with you unknowingly. No one has to my knowledge. You do not have a talent for political double speak. If you “Value my wisdom” as you have said previously then you should know by now that I dissect people’s arguments word by word. When Green watch Dog said he didn’t want Control, he cared about Gun Safety, well you just… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @TheRevalator, no I never implied such a thing, you assumed it.

    If you dissect people’s arguments word by word, then why are you arguing something I never said, something you only assumed?

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR

    No, Sorry, if we had all just “assumed” that, you wouldn’t have had to come back later and talk about how making a distinction between Democracies and Republics were Semantics.

    If you did not imply, then why did you have to dismiss the correlation as Semantics? Thats the funny thing, you Got caught in a lie you already provided evidence for to show it as a lie before you said it. 🙂

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, hmm maybe semantics was the wrong word there.

    The argument intended there was that the name wasn’t really important, it’s the ideas and principles that matter.

    Though I doubt you’ll find that acceptable either.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR

    Did you ever stop and think why it would be unacceptable?

    Perhaps the disingenuousness or it, perhaps that it is a crystal clear example of what I called you out for, twisting your words around like political double speak? You’re doing it to yourself, and more importantly highlighting that principles really aren’t important to you as you want people to believe.

    Actions not words.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator No, because when you called me out I had no idea where you were getting that from, as I stated multiple times.

    I used the wrong word, which means it gave you the wrong impression of what I was trying to say, and means that when you called me out on it I had no clue what you were talking about. And it took me forever to get you to say what you were talking about.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    That’s why it trapped you in a lie JMR. Its not the wrong word, you had the wrong intention, and now that you got caught your kicking yourself because it keeps you from having plausible deniability.

    You’re comprehension of what others were calling you out for had nothing to do with the original intention behind your first comment, and how you tried to defend it.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, you’re a confusing person, it’s not the wrong word? What do you mean there?

    The original intention of my first comment? Again I dont get what you’re saying here, are you saying that I was supposed to predict how people were going to respond to my first comment? I dont comprehend what your driving at here.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR No, Actions not words, remember. Your actions when you started where defending a bad premise. When that was pointed out, you then claimed I lied about what you said. First quote provided by me, You claim you never did such a thing. Here is where it gets good. JMR doubles down, accuses me of “assuming”. Demands proof while acting cocky. I quote second Statement. JMR: “OHhhh Crap!” Instantly begins saying he used the wrong word, changing his story yet again. All this before I got to the third quote. 🙂 You don’t comprehend because you are playing dumb, which… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revaltor Well that didn’t clear up anything.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR

    Perhaps the reason it didn’t clear up anything is because you are still trying to blame others instead of admitting you were wrong, and got caught in a lie. The same thing you are still trying to do. 🙂

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, or perhaps I am just confused, and dont understand what you are getting at.

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR With as much has been laid out for you, no one is buying that bs. What you don’t feel cleared anything up was a play by play recount showing how you got caught in a lie and then tried to change your story. I did keep it pretty simple. So here is an even Shorter version. 1. JMR~ “The Revelator is lying about what I said, I never said anything like that. 2. Revelator~ Provides Quotes of JMR 3. JMR~ “Ok, so maybe I said some things after all, but its still your fault because I actually meant to… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @The Revalator, your mind seems made up, so why continue?

    TheRevelator
    Member
    TheRevelator

    @JMR

    Yeah, when you provide evidence it really does make someone make up their mind and tend not to budge.

    You’re only doing it to yourself

    tetejaun
    Member
    tetejaun

    Americans are deliberately UNEDUCATED to make compliant slaves. It was not that way before 1964 when the democrat party became the communist party. Joseph McCarthy set the democrat plans back 50 years. Look at ALL the Americans who believe the government is there to take care of you. The 19th Amendment gave women the right to vote. You can trace the beginning major downfall of the U.S. to about that date. Because women are nurturers. They want a man to provide & protect. Since the democrats have made government the father & mother, women seed all power to provide &… Read more »

    Huapakechi
    Member
    Huapakechi

    I place the beginning of the slide at the wilson administration.

    Mike Carbine
    Member
    Mike Carbine

    Semantics. How many times did FDR call America the Arsenal of Democracy? What are parliamentary systems of government? You know that most citizens of the United States of America call the system of weights and measurements we use here ‘Imperial’, and yet we never used this standard as it was created by the UK in 1824. Officially called the United States customary system (USCS or USC) is based off the older Winchester measure that the UK&Colonies shared. The left will not rest till they have turned the USA into a Failed State.

    Knute
    Member
    Knute

    The Pledge is all well and good, but isn’t the actual LAW even better?
    “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government… ” -US Constitution, Article 4, Section 4
    http://constitutionus.com/

    DC
    Member
    DC

    The best thing about democracy is that sometimes people can get what they want.
    The worst thing about democracy is that sometimes people can get what they want.

    Knute
    Member
    Knute

    Yup. Its all in the Federalist Papers. The basic idea is; the masses of the great unwashed are too easily fooled by ‘authority’, and too distracted by life to be able to govern directly. So it was thought that by having them vote for people to represent them indirectly, they would be able to focus enough to make better decisions, since they would only have to do so every few years. Its was to serve as yet another check on too much power in any one place. I can see the idea, but it seems that it failed. Once was… Read more »

    Will
    Member
    Will

    @DC,I’m still lm still laughing………
    Haaaa