Opinion
Philadelphia, PA –-(Ammoland.com)-“Philadelphia police seize massive arsenal of weapons from suicidal man’s home,” the NBC headline reads.
NBC’s national story goes onto state, “The man, who has been hospitalized, had at least 39 guns, multiple grenades and more than 2,000 rounds of ammunition, according to police.”
The story is about a 72-year-old man, whose son was concerned for his father’s wellbeing. The son reported to police that he was worried about his dad and that his father had guns.
Police responded by raiding the man’s house and seizing all his firearms even though the man’s family says he wasn’t a danger to anyone but himself.
The police said the unnamed man had 19 handguns and 20 long guns. The NBC news story said he had an “M-16 military-type rifle” which most likely was an AR-15. The other long guns consisted of hunting rifles.
The grenades referenced in the headlines were inert. The man was an avid collector of World War II memorabilia and firearms all his life. The grenades were from that era.
The “massive stockpile of firearms” was not an unusual amount to most gun owners. Collecting 39 firearms over 72 years does not seem like a lot to other firearms collectors. Although to the uninitiated 2000 rounds might seem like a lot, to gun owners, it isn’t an unusual number of bullets.
Maj Toure of Black Guns Matter and Philadelphia candidate for city council has an issue on how NBC reported the story.
“You have a 72-year old man whose family says he is an avid collector,” Toure said by phone. “A 72-year old avid collector with only 39 guns. So, one, it is not a cache. Two thousand rounds of ammo is not a lot of ammo. My last shipment from Phoenix Ammo was more than 2000 rounds. It is not a lot of ammo.”
To Toure and other gun rights advocates, it seems that the police has violated the man’s rights by ignoring due process clause of the constitution. The advocates point out that police seized the man’s firearms without charging him with a crime.
“His son called on him.” Toure said, “The question is if he is a threat to himself, why are you not just not taking him out? Why are you taking his firearms? He hasn’t been charged with anything. There has been no crime committed. They seized his personal property. That is what is actually happening.”
“There has been no due process. This is a violation of his fourth amendment rights. I think he or his family should sue. They are treating it as if they removed some crime-ridden lunatic off the streets. That is not the case. This man has not even been charged anything. I don’t care if you are pro-gun or anti-gun. The issue is that this is a violation of personal privacy and a direct disrespect for our personal property.”
According to Lieutenant Dennis Rosenbaum of the Philadelphia Police Department, unless the family petition the courts to get the firearms back, they will be destroyed. Rosenbaum seems to think the family will not request to get the guns back.
“I don’t think they’re going to be trying to get the weapons back,” Rosenbaum told NBC. “I’ve talked to the family today as of an hour ago and they just don’t want them to wind up in the wrong hands. They seem to be very nice people.”
About John Crump
John is a NRA instructor and a constitutional activist. He is the former CEO of Veritas Firearms, LLC and is the co-host of The Patriot News Podcast which can be found at www.blogtalkradio.com/patriotnews. John has written extensively on the patriot movement including 3%’ers, Oath Keepers, and Militias. In addition to the Patriot movement, John has written about firearms, interviewed people of all walks of life, and on the Constitution. John lives in Northern Virginia with his wife and sons and is currently working on a book on leftist deplatforming methods and can be followed on Twitter at @crumpyss, on Facebook at realjohncrump, or at www.crumpy.com.
“I’ve talked to the family today as of an hour ago and they just don’t want them to wind up in the wrong hands.”
It sounds to me like those guns are ALREADY in the wrong hands! Nothing quite like Orwellian double-speak!
The police illegally confiscated this mans property. No evidence of a crime. Now they say he must spend thousands of dollars in legal costs to retrieve his own property that was removed from his house ILLEGALLY. No wonder the LIBERAL BRAIN AND DEMOCRAT PARTY IS FU_KED UP.
With family like that you don’t need any enemies. This is following Orwell’s 1984 where the kids are told to spy on their parents and rat on them. The end result is that the parent gets vaporized and the kid goes on to live according to what big brother wants. I would, definitely, write this family out of my will and even give the inheritance to the local dog catchers. He didn’t raise them very well, did he?
The precedence of eliminating due process has been committed. We now cease being a free country.
Next flight to Canada departs in 10 minutes. You won’t be missed. Buh-bye!
IMOA, The guy needs to get a lawyer and write the entire family out of his Will since none want to help him recover his firearms. Have the lawyer help to petition to get his firearms back too.
Hah yeah, I can bet that someones son ain’t gonna get any of Dad’s guns passed down to him.
Damn right.
ALL EXPENSES MUST BE PAID FOR BY THE POLICE AND ADMINISTRATORS WHO AUTHORIZED THIS ILLEGAL CONFISCATION OF MATERIALS OF A LEGAL LAW ABIDING American CITIZEN. HOLD THOSE WHO ARE INVOLVED WITH THIS ILLEGAL CONFISCATION LEGALLY AND FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE.
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. QUIT YELLING.
He had an M16, most likely an AR15…. He had GRENADES (inert). The guns will be destroyed in not petitioned for return…. A media frenzy….. WHO IN THE F**K IS ROSEYBUM TRYING TO BULLSHIT !!! Most of these will go to HIM or his other OATH LYING socialist cronies. This family has ZERO idea what they are doing or losing, just the type of IDIOTS the “grabbers” are hoping for. FREE guns for the grabbers collections and friend, all at the cost of the old mans dignity and lifelong investment. HE gets nothing but the SHAFT from his family and… Read more »
@Rock, his only trustworthy confidant is his lawyer.
The guns will be destroyed? How can that happen when their owner is still alive? The police stole them and will destroy them just like that? Philly police Lieutenant Dennis Rosenbaum needs to be in prison, not a police uniform.
Blatant violations of not only US Constitution but Pa. Constitution. Pa Constitution; Article 1 section; § 8. Security from searches and seizures. The people shall be secure in their persons, houses, papers and possessions from unreasonable searches and seizures, and no warrant to search any place or to seize any person or things shall issue without describing them as nearly as may be, nor without probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation subscribed to by the affiant. Did they have. warrant specifying the guns to be taken and why? § 21. Right to bear arms. The right of the citizens… Read more »
this is why red flag laws/erpo’s violate the Constitution, they deny due process, the man had committed no crime. had he even seen a psychiatrist? I say a psychiatrist because psychologists are not qualified to diagnose anyone, much less treat them. what are the reasons the son called the police to do a well being check? the article states he has been hospitalized, but for what, mental health issues or just old age problems? it is not up to the family to tell the cops that they do not want his guns back, the guns are the old man’s property… Read more »
NBC-Never Be Correct. The first story I heard was this man was a retired owner of a gun store. He collects WWII items as a hobby. He had 2000 rounds of ammo which could be 4 boxes of 22 LR at less than $ 20 per box. BFD and where is the danger? The fact that some people in office are more of a danger to America than any such collection. As for the comments by the PD if they confiscate the guns and he has any of value or war mementos they will “disappear” before destruction. The article points… Read more »
I smell a civil war brewing. Anyone else?
Something tells me that the father and son do not get along. Maybe the son is suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome and does not agree with his father’s pro-gun views. In any case, the City of Philadelphia has a long history of Constitutional abuse, including abuse of civil asset forfeiture laws. That is why each and every gun owner should vigorously oppose any attempt to pass so-called “red flag” laws. They are just an excuse to trample on the rights of citizens of the republic. I would like to see stiff penalties, like mandatroy fines and jail time, for anyone… Read more »
Isn’t a commandment, “Thou shall not bare false Witness!” in the Ten Commandments! ‘
Colie, yes and one about honoring the father and mother.
He was hospitalized on what is called a “302” in Pennsylvania. That’s a mental health “hold” for 72 hours of observation. Doesn’t matter if he gets held involuntarily anyway.
That family needs to get those guns back, and sell them if he is incompetent. Though from the looks of the way they had them all in a pile in the back of a police van, they have LOTS of fresh scratches and dings to lower their value.
@Dcow, So the police took the guns away from him to eliminate the danger. Then someone took him away from where the guns would have been. Seems redundant if the true purpose were to eliminate some presumed danger.
Those firearms do NOT belong to the family, thus family cannot decide as to their disposition.They belong to the gentleman who has been taken into custody. It is HIS decision. Perhaps he has a trusted friend (certainly none of his “family” are in that category) whom he can appoint as trustee over the guns, and he can dispose of them per insructions from their OWNER. NO reason at all for them stealing his guns…. once they had the man out of the house, the guns were inert, incapable of harming anyone. Stupid move. We have not heard anything more about… Read more »
I would be curious to know the history between father, and son.
If this is not nipped in the bud the anti gun crowd will have a new way to confiscate our weapons, even though it’s illegal as hell.
Philly was declared a sanctuary city, and now confiscating a man’s weapons without due process!
All the things that we were warned about concerning lack of due process is coming true. Our rights are being whittled away at an alarming pace. I guarantee it won’t stop until we stop it!
The mayor of Philadelphia is an illegal-alien loving POS.
His rights have been violated and his property has been unconstitutionally confiscated. So, why does the family need to petition to get the firearms back? There not the family’s property they’re the property of “the man”. No due process and he’s guilty until he can prove his innocence. This is the antithesis of our system of law. If you for one second believe that it stops with the Second Amendment get you head out of your a**. Your rights are next!
“massive arsenal of weapons” to the media equals a modest collection for most owners over 30 years old. Apparently none of them have seen “Dragon man”s collection. Red flag laws are going to get a lot of innocent gun owners and lots of stupid “just following orders” cops killed. The Constitution says “Shall not be infringed” is doesn’t say anything like “well if some pansy ass is afraid it’s okay to steal personal property”
This is an example of the “EROP / RED FLAG LAW” better known as THE CONFISCATION LAW.
This action is a (DNC)/democRAT National Communist party inspired RAPE of an American’s RIGHT has just happened under the “color of law”.
Every piece that was carted off MUST be RETURNED to the family WITHOUT any cost and the items MUST NOT be DAMAGED or SCRATCHED or MARKED in any way.
NO CHARGES against this Gentleman?!
The action IS COMPLETELY WRONG!!
I DEMAND to know if the FAMILY agrees with this “reporter”!
If the father has a will the son should be cut out of it!
That may be what happened, he already did!
Mac. After legal expenses there would likely be little to will.
Almost as bad as the law – do not lose sight of the fact that NBC has created news where none fit their needs. Do not forget the truck they set on fire long ago because the crash they set up failed to get ignition. When they get caught they bury it and move on. Here we have something that doesn’t smell right from the get go. It smells even worse because of the mediasteria that NBC adds to any piece they can. Sad also is the fact that so many in the general public are ignorant about guns in… Read more »
I hope the guy’s in good enough shape to kick that kid’s ass!
Okay Trump you want the Sportsmans vote get this one to the Supreme Court
That is a strange way for the son to show concern for his father ‘ This man had some very serious issues and the last thing he needed was to have the police come barging into his house. The man still has issues that have been compounded by his son. As a retired firefighter I can recall many times we were called to get individuals help with crisis . The hospital would find placement for these people.
Previews Of Coming Attractions. This kind of action needs to be stopped @ all Costs. I taught all my kids that your firearms may be your Best Friend when things turn sour, and those days are upon us Now !
@51, I think that you have your finger on the pulse. The role of family, parents and especially grandparents in teaching children what is right is going to be more important than ever. Children should know even before they go to school that what is taught is crap to be regurgitated for the test and then forgotten. Deceive the teacher or professor by silence an get moved along. The technique will come in handy later in life when dealing with government.
@USA, I hope that every libtard in this nation rises up in armed attempt to over throw the government of the US, while Trump is in office. The libtards can not manage a daily schedule, much less a revolution.
And that is what a “Red Flag” Law does.
Old guy with a FFL03 Curios & Relics, gun hating Son SWATs him and he loses a very valuable collection.
I believe the Democrats have a solution for us all now it’s called “assisted suicide” and they are making it legal. They also offer “assisted murder” for the unborn, if it’s an inconvenience for the mother.. Give this man his guns back as soon as he’s cleared, and we need someone to ensure this happens. We will not stand for unconstitutional laws period! Make damn sure you follow due process little govt.!
These Red Flag laws are equivalent to a City, County or State voting to legalize Murder. It is almost unfathomable that people do not see this for what it really is. Eco Activist could very well someday advocate that to save the planet, there should be a Moral Imperative to limit the population of humans in any way necessary to save the planet. Without any empirical evidence that such a need is incumbent. Is there any common sense left? Oh wait!, they already have. Roe vs Wade is a law allowing legalized murder.
34 guns is a massive arsenal?? LOLOLOLOLOL
GOA or others like the NRA was suppose to be needs to contact this man to help him get these crooks held accountable for their actions. Isn’t this is what they are for?
@Deg, No. That is what attorneys in private practice are there for. Attorneys should be lining up for his case. No warrant. No permission from a person that had authority to grant permission. The PD is an entity of the city that has very deep pockets.
I suppose I should have included Attorneys, sorry.
I was referring to the way NRA use to fight for 2 adm. rights.
Used to? WHEN?
Red Flag laws are a not so veil attempt at gun confiscation without due process. If a Police Department anywhere in the US acts on such an order, they are in violation of the Oath of Office they took. That being said, Law Enforcement will eventually find themselves between a moral rock and hard place if they do not take upon themselves to push back on such illegal Legislative and Judicial activity. Law Enforcement should be literal, if the Legislative or Judicial branches break the law, they too are within the reach of Law Enforcement’s authority.
As 2020 elections draw nearer you can bet there will be a huge increase in these false flags – the sole purpose to drive the idiot sheeple to contact their representative to demand a federal ERPO law and the rest of supposed “gun-laws”. The communists, both parties, will not stop unless we, conservatives, gun owners organize and put equal pressure on our representatives. Actually, we’ll have to do much more because we cannot allow any passage of laws prior to 2020.
The Red Flag laws are not needed, it’s already possible for the “Authorities” to raid your home and confiscate your guns with a simple phone call and a lie to the police. I’m not worried about Red Flag laws, they’re redundant. We’ve already lost our rights under the 4th Amendment, as well as the 2nd Amendment.
39 isn’t a bad collection (or arsenal). He could be going for quality rather than quantity. 8>)
A preview, ladies and gentlemen.
Looks like it is time to change the last will and testament. The comment about due process is apropos. This is a Red Flag application of unauthorized force.
It should be needless to say, but this can happen to any of us at anytime. Those of us who desire to maintain our rights are being taken out one by one. Now at an accelerated rate.
In keeping with your link I suggest you read the 3-part article located here:
https://www.civil-liberties.com/books/
I spoke with the author about 15 years ago and found him to be more than well informed – he documented everything in his articles.
Wow! His family wants to give up the value of 39 firearms? If they were only worth $100 each that’s $3900. If they were worth $300 each which as an average is probably closer to reality, that is like tossing $12,000 in the toilet.
To the left wing, commie wanabee democRATS, a cap gun with a roll of caps is a weapon of mass distraction !! I am so sick of these morons trying to blame guns for their inability to grow a pair !! I believe all these mass shooting in the news are mostly committed by crazy assed demoncRATS seeking attentions because their mommies didn’t breast feed then passed the age of 2 !!
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