What To Do If Approached About Carrying A Firearm In A Store

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What To Do If Approached About Carrying A Firearm In A Store

Virginia – -(AmmoLand.com)- Now that some of the dust has settled, here is some more information and thoughts on Walmart, Kroger, and the other stores that are “virtue signaling” on guns:

Walmart

The video of the open-carrier getting kicked out of a Walmart in Kentucky happened before Walmart's virtue signaling episode began. It appears to have had more to do with the gun owner embarrassing Walmart by trying to get someone to help him at the unattended firearms counter, than him having an openly-carried handgun. Here is a link to the Facebook posting from the gun owner on that incident.

Several people here in Virginia and in Texas have tested open carry in Walmarts and have had no issues. No change in signage at Walmart has yet occurred either. https://thehill.com/homenews/news/460652-gun-rights-activists-test-walmart-request-not-to-open-carry-guns-into-store

For now it would seem that it is business as usual if you wish to carry at Walmart openly or concealed. Of course, there is the issue of Walmart asking Congress for more gun control – which is stupid and unacceptable.

Another store virtue signals on guns. https://wtvr.com/2019/09/11/publix-joins-retailers-asking-customers-not-to-openly-carry-guns-into-its-stores/

Publix is now virtue signaling the same message as Walmart, Kroger, CVS, Walgreens and others by asking customers not to open carry in their stores. I, for one, personally, and respectfully, decline to honor that request.

Various companies have sent a letter to the Senate calling for more gun control

Here is the letter from close to 150 companies we need to stop doing business with (Uber, Lyft, Levi's, Gap, Nextdoor, JJ Abrams, Royal Caribbean Cruises, Yelp, and many others). How stupid of all these companies to bring politics into their businesses. They have just needlessly lost a lot of customers.

Texas Senator Ted Cruz let their CEOs have it with this response.

Seems support for gun control is trending down.

  • https://freebeacon.com/issues/polls-show-gun-control-support-trending-down/
  • https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/gun-sales-surge-15-driven-by-self-protection-pelosi-schumer-demand-for-limits

What To Do If Approached About Carrying A Firearm In A Store

I have been conferring with one of Virginia Citizens Defense League's attorneys and offer this general advice if approached by a store employee and/or the police while carrying in a business:

If approached by a store employee, ask to speak to the manager (often employees don't know that while the store may prohibit them, as employees, from carrying at work, the store may not prevent customers from doing so).

If the manager or store security confirms they don't want you carrying in the store, just politely and quietly leave the store. Do NOT ask that they post the business with a “no guns” sign.

You DO NOT have to identify yourself, nor do you have to sign anything. You should simply leave without argument.

If the police are involved and they ask you to identify yourself, you should do so to them only. Do NOT sign any document except in the extremely unlikely case that it is a summons to appear in court issued by the police. (Failure to sign a summons will leave the police with no choice but to arrest you.) Leave the store once the police have indicated you are free to go. If the police want you to sign something from the company, just say you don't sign anything unless you have a lawyer present and stick to that. You will not be charged with trespass if this is the first time the police have approached you at that business. You have committed no crime, so there is nothing to sign.

All that said, be polite to the officers and do NOT debate the company's policy with the police. You have nothing to gain by being anything other than reasonable and pleasant.


Virginia Citizens Defense League About Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL):

Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

For more information, visit: www.vcdl.org.

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Harry
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Harry

Back in the day, before the “Georgia Weapons Carry License”, open carry was permitted without a license but concealed carry was not permitted, period. (This is what I think my dad told me sixty-odd years ago) Later on, a friend of mine said that his father-in-law, a mid-sized town police chief, said that law or no law, he’d rather stop someone with a gun in the glove compartment than someone with a gun beside him on the seat.

Dave C
Member
Dave C

Wal-Marts here where I live north of Dallas allow licensed concealed carry only, and say so with entrance signs.

Will
Member
Will

Just how North of Dallas are you ?

Knute
Member
Knute

Probably WAYYY north. Chicago? Minneapolis maybe? 🙂

Ryben Flynn
Member
Ryben Flynn

There is no official sign in Texas that authorizes Concealed Carry.
There are only the 30.06 No Concealed Carry and the 30.07 No Open Carry signs.
Lack of those allows both. Lack of one or the other allows the opposite.

Will
Member
Will

@Ryben,you’re right. There seems to be a lot of non-Texans on this site that can’t or won’t understand that fact !

Charlie Foxtrot
Member
Charlie Foxtrot

What does the entrance sign exactly say? Is it a 30.07 sign? Is it a made up sign by the Wal-Mart manager?

JDC
Member
JDC

Just remember that the Walmart employees may not like the policy any more than you do. In many small towns across America, the Walmart may be the main source for sporting goods and ammunition for the locals. I’m sure that most of the Walmart managers would rather not have to approach an openly armed citizen who is his/her neighbor and ask them to respect the corporate policy. I’m not on the “boycott Walmart train” but I’ve tried to buy most of my supplies elsewhere for some time now, especially trying to “buy American” instead of cheap Chinese “stuff.” After their… Read more »

Country Boy
Member
Country Boy

” the Walmart may be the main source for sporting goods and ammunition for the locals.”

Not anymore…………

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@JDC, Thank you for supporting the U.S. Military, American industry, Mom and Pop stores, and small town America. God bless you.

FORD Will
Member
FORD Will

IF they approach you. AS they say something throw a shirt tail over the weapon , IF possible. End of discussion. In TEXAS they have to have the proper signs posted. Mind what the signage says. It might say ban on open carry or no entrance without a LTC.

james
Member
james

Be sure concealed is legal in your state with or without a permit before you conceal the handgun.

Will
Member
Will

@james,really ? How informative !

NightFire
Member
NightFire

In Texas, if a sign is posted or not, if a manager asks you not to carry, the law says you have to comply, if they ask you to leave, you must leave; It doesn’t matter if you are carrying or not.

Privately owned businesses are allowed to provide verbal notice.

Will
Member
Will

@Nightfire,just went through this a few days ago and you are wrong ! In Texas,if there is no 30.06 sign posted for conceal carry,or a 30.07 sign posted for Open Carry,you’re good to go. This isn’t my opinion on this subject,it’s Texas State Law ! They can not just arbitrarily ban carry in the State Of Texas !

jdcarpe
Member
jdcarpe

@Will, here is the pertinent part of the law in question (Texas PC Sec. 30.07) Sec. 30.07. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH AN OPENLY CARRIED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder: (1) openly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and (2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder openly carrying a handgun was forbidden. (b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to… Read more »

Will
Member
Will

@jdcarpe,the lack of 30.06 signs concealed,and 30.07 signs open Carry, is consent. I have carried in Texas since ‘95 ,concealed and open,and always pay attention to the signs only,not what some pimply faces kid asst.manager might say or think. If they don’t want Carry,post it like Texas Law dictates.

Charlie Foxtrot
Member
Charlie Foxtrot

Looks like someone can’t read Texas law and scolds those that can. The lack of a sign is only consent until you are being told otherwise. See https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.30.htm:

“(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart.”

Will
Member
Will

@CF,you’re still wrong as hell ! Read the entire statute. The signs have to be posted ! It is a defense to any type of frivolous prosecution if not posted. I just read it again. Although these laws used to be part of our firearms training,that had to be passed, in order to get your license. You just cherry picked (d) on this to make you appear correct on this Texas thing,as you put it. Charlie,stay in TN,and try like hell to learn those laws.Dont mess those up too.

Will
Member
Will

@CF,hang on Charlie.I will post part of that Texas statute that makes it so clear even you will understand it !

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Will, I have several LTC instructors in my gun club. Universally, they say the same thing that you are saying. They were taught by the state of Texas, and that is what they teach in their classes.
Lack of signage or lack of signage that does not conform is consent.

Will
Member
Will

@WB,that’s exact what we were taught too,back in the day. Business owners and Corp’s operating in Texas, have to have those signs posted if they don’t want Open/Concealed Carry. If not posted as required by Texas Law,that is consent !

Charlie Foxtrot
Member
Charlie Foxtrot

“Lack of signage or lack of signage that does not conform is consent.” — I never said anything different!!! All I said in this and the other thread was that the lack of a proper sign is only consent UNTIL YOU ARE BEING TOLD TO LEAVE! Basic trespassing laws still apply and 30.06/30.07 even codified that. It is not that difficult to understand! Consent through lack of proper signage can be revoked in written or oral form by whoever owns the business or represents the business owner! That’s exactly what 30.06 (d) and 30.07 (d) say! For example, a business… Read more »

Finnky
Member
Finnky

@CF is correct. @Wild Bill, you may want to ask your instructor friends again – if a property owner (or their representative) asks you to leave, then you must leave. Has nothing to do with guns or gun rights – it is basic property rights, which we here in Texas take pretty seriously. Consider your rights if someone decides to hang out on your front lawn or even enter your home – just because they’ve opened for business does not mean they have surrendered their rights to control their property. @Will – People where you live may well be very… Read more »

Will
Member
Will

@Finnky,can’t upset mother-in-Laws. I’ve had a few of those in my life,free now though !

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Finnky, The rules, for lawn or home that I invite no one onto, are different than the rules for a business that invites the general public onto the property, to trade.

And the rules are different for corporations, that are creatures of statute, with millions of owners, from the rules pertaining to property belonging to one owner.

And absent anything to do with guns or gun rights, it becomes a different issue because we were discussing consent under the Texas LTC statute and the impact of 30.06 and 30.07 signage, rather than the general rules of property ownership.

Will
Member
Will

@@Finnky,CF hasn’t been right about any of this yet !!! He’s a nice guy that I agree with on most everything,but he’s totally wrong on Texas LTC Laws.

Charlie Foxtrot
Member
Charlie Foxtrot

Will, I have posted the criminal code in question. It is crystal clear on the issue of trespassing. You are free to post any TX law that says otherwise. From http://www.opencarrytexas.org/faq.html:

“However, if the owner verbally requests removal of the weapon or asks you to leave the property, you must respect his or her wishes. Failure to do so could result in the charge of Criminal Trespass and unlawful carry.”

Is OCT wrong too?

Chris Mallory
Member
Chris Mallory

Know your state laws. I only have to ID to the police in three situations: When I am driving. If I am carrying a concealed weapon Or If I am under arrest. Note, my state law says “under arrest” not “detained”. My drivers license stays in my vehicle. I have no legal requirement to carry an ID. I have no legal requirement to tell anyone my ID if I am not under arrest. I have no legal requirement to ID if I am open carrying a weapon. Vigorously exercise your rights or you have already lost them.

CourageousLion
Member
CourageousLion

All “laws” that pertain to actions that incur no victim are rights lost. An easy test is to ask yourself…If there were NO government could I do what I am about to do without damaging someone in their life, liberty or property. If the answer is no, I won’t, then it is a RIGHT. Any “law” to the contrary is an infringement on that right.

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@CL, I think that you are describing Malum prohibitum statutes versus Malum en se statutes.

TexDad
Member
TexDad

Attention open carriers!

I see you not making apologies, I see you showing others gun owners are responsible community members, I see you’re not threatening anybody but the criminals.

I chose to conceal. That doesn’t make you stupid and me smart. The argument for concealed carry shouldn’t be one against open carry.

Thank you.

Knute
Member
Knute

Why should this be an argument at all? Why are people so insistent on getting their own way? I don’t understand. If one wants to carry open or concealed, or a glock vs a 1911, or a 9mm vs a .45acp, how does that effect me? “It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my bones” -Tom Jefferson
How does what others choose to do, that doesn’t effect me, become my business? My answer is; it doesn’t. I think it’s just childish. Do whatever you like, no matter what it is, so long as it doesn’t directly effect others.

24and7
Member
24and7

I look at concealed and open carry like this …It’s just like the old country song “If you mind your own business then you won’t be minding mine!” and “because if you mind your own business you’ll be busy all the time!” …Tell them to have a nice day f××cking off..I will exercise my rights that were endowed to me by My Creator..nuff said..

Alan1018
Member
Alan1018

Better yet only carry concealed and avoid both any potential hassles and the problem of making non-gun owners nervous, which they are sure to remember at the next ballot initiative.

Bowserb46
Member
Bowserb46

Kudos, Alan. Open carry is, I believe, a big mistake. It is allowed in Texas with a License to Carry (replaced the former Concealed Handgun License), but open carry has risks. Not the least of those is scaring the non-gun owners into voting the wrong way. Also a risk in Texas is that a LEO can stop you and ask to see your LTC. Serious risk, IMO, is that you are advertising being armed. In an attack scenario, you may be the first one shot. You might also get hit with a 2×4 in the Walmart parking lot for your… Read more »

Chris Mallory
Member
Chris Mallory

Open carry without a permit has been the law of the land, protected by the state constitution in Kentucky for over 200 years. It is not a mistake.

Will
Member
Will

@Chris,hell no it’s not a mistake.Open Carry is the way it should be all over the country,and hopefully will be sooner than later !

Will
Member
Will

@Bowser,now that’s a new one ! Open Carry might scare snowflake sissy’s into voting the wrong way ? Bullshit ! All the nonsense reasons you list,damn. A lighting bolt could come out of the clear blue sky too !

Finnky
Member
Finnky

@Will – I conceal because I don’t want to offend my mother-in-law. Open carry just gives me legal cover if I accidentally blow my cover.

Will
Member
Will

@Alan,stay concerned about all the snowflake sissy’s. That nice of you and their precious feelings thank you.

Alan1018
Member
Alan1018

I don’t give a rats @ss about their feelings, but I do care about what they can do to our rights in the voting booth. Go ahead, stick your gun in their face but don’t whine when the gun and mag ban initiatives start passing like they have started to recently.
Movement to overturn 2A:
https://www.foxnews.com/media/second-amendment-red-flag-laws-mass-shootings

Will
Member
Will

@Alan,you just said,” not the least of those is scaring the non-gun owners into voting the wrong way” So hell yes you care about the snowflakes precious feelings ! My rights don’t end where their precious feelings begin ! The last thing freedom loving Americans need to do is continue pandering to the left !

moe mensale
Member
moe mensale

Alan, when my gun is in its holster it isn’t in anyone’s face. It’s not a sentient object. It doesn’t act on its own.

And good luck getting 2/3 of the House AND the Senate to propose a repeal or 2/3 of the state legislatures to propose a repeal and 3/4 of the states to ratify it. Amendments aren’t repealed because they make people sad or angry.

Will
Member
Will

@moe,really great points !

moe mensale
Member
moe mensale

You gotta love “republicans” like Adam Kinzinger who are ready to preemptively throw in the towel on the Bill of Rights. You don’t need democrats around with guys like Adam in office.

I lied. I despise people like Adam.

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Alan, does it not occur to you that the libtards are going to vote against everything that you believe it, whether you offend them or not?
Our civil right to keep and bear arms does not depend on the Second Amendment, didn’t you know? The Second Amendment only enshrines our pre political civil right to keep and bear arms.

Will Flatt
Member

ANY store chain like Walmart that either has a policy of ‘no guns’ OR partners with the gun control lobby (also Walmart!!) needs to be ENTIRELY BOYCOTTED BY ALL GUN OWNERS. Too many gun owners won’t follow through on principle; if they did, corporations would not feel emboldened to toy around with our rights to carry in public. We also need to coordinate our efforts to put full-spectrum pressure on corporate America to never interfere with our Constitutional Rights. They have to know that going the wrong way on liberty will cost them dearly where it matters most to them:… Read more »

RoyD
Member
RoyD

I plan on continuing to do what I normally do like I did today at the CVS Pharmacy. That would be concealed carry. I will let the rest of you fight about open carry. Now, should I decide to carry open I will deal with whatever comes as a result. I don’t think it will be much if anything. I seem to have that affect on people. On a side note the guy ahead of me was picking up his Adderall and he said his doctor had just increased the dosage by 5mg. He did not appear to have a… Read more »

Will Flatt
Member

You might want to hit CVS in the wallet for their antigun policies, and switch pharmacies. See my other comment about punishing anti-freedom corporations.

moe mensale
Member
moe mensale

“Here is a link to the Facebook posting from the gun owner on that incident.”

Link is missing!

Will
Member
Will

@Darkman,Discretion might be the better part of valor but not here.Your post heavily implies that open Carry is making a scene ? It’s not making a scene to me ! If they don’t like my shirt,should I change that too ? Why all the pandering to snowflakes that only dream of abolishing the 2A and confiscating our firearms. I Carry Open everyday legally, and in accordance with Texas State Law.

Will Flatt
Member

This is the old OC vs CC argument. We need to stop bickering amongst ourselves about that. Do what your state’s laws allow and your preference is, if you have the choice. We need to take a chapter from the anti’s playbook and start coordinating our ‘response’ and pressure on companies/stores so that we don’t have to debate how or whether we’re able to exercise our rights.

Superman
Member
Superman

Just because you CAN do something does not mean you SHOULD. ‘Don’t wear your d*ck on your forehead’. Grow up.

Poppy Wayne
Member
Poppy Wayne

So, you’re one of those that believes your opinion is the only one that matters…otherwise, you’re a dickhead, right? Sorry…but my Constitution doesn’t have an opinion clause.
Do what you think is best for YOU but don’t presume your opinion makes a damn about what others do. As Will Flatt said, this has been argued over long enough by gun owners/carriers & should be a personal preference, not a debatable issue. Certainly not decided on by whether or not it offends the liberal left…or you. If you can, do, if YOU want to. Otherwise don’t. It really IS that simple.

Will
Member
Will

@PW,just disregard Clark Kent who now goes by Superman. This poor pitiful bastard has been fighting his mental health issues for years.

Oldvet
Member
Oldvet

That is why I called him super dud when he first appeared.

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Poppy Wayne, Just because one CAN get off the couch in a drunken stupor does not mean that one SHOULD get off the couch in a drunken stupor, and make insulting comments on the internet.

Will
Member
Will

@ClarkKent (Superman)still a piece of shit,ain’t ya ?

FORD Will
Member
FORD Will

Speaking of “DICKS”, well there you are. It is my right, just like you right to make IGNORANT statements.

Dave C
Member
Dave C

You should care because the bastards vote!

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

Isn’t Falstaff’s line “Discretion is the better part of valor.” an explanation of his cowardly escape. Henry the IV As I recall, Shakespeare intended this to be a bad thing.

Darkman
Member
Darkman

Sometimes prudence is the better part of valor. Don’t make a scene if it’s not needed. Don’t get me wrong. I’m as Pro 2A as they come. It’s always better if the Enemy is unaware of your Force Strength. Especially if SHTF. Keep Your Powder Dry.

moe mensale
Member
moe mensale

So following your state’s laws is making a scene? The bigger scene is those screaming hysterically for no logical reason except to show how woke they are.

Oldmarine
Member
Oldmarine

The best thing to do is to leave quietly but file a Predigest Suit against the store then. They must obey the law also.

Baldwin
Member
Baldwin

“I’m as Pro 2A as they come…” but…
FIFY

JoeUSooner
Member
JoeUSooner

The word “but” translates to “forget everything I just said.”

Will Flatt
Member

Low key is definitely the way to go; but whether one OC’s or CC’s shouldn’t be the issue. We need to boycott places that are anti-personal liberty. We need to coordinate our efforts. We need to be more organized.

Chris Mallory
Member
Chris Mallory

Funny, I have always found it better not to look like defenseless prey.

FlaBoy
Member
FlaBoy

Or better yet, don’t “open carry” in a store or other places most Americans do not expect to see someone carrying a firearm. Yes, you may have the right to do so, but that does not mean it is the right thing to do. Most non-gun owners are very emotional and non-logical about firearms. Open carry upsets them and antagonizes them, which, in the long run, makes things worse for us gun owners. If you want to carry, then great. The more responsible people that are armed, the better. But carry concealed, unless you are going fishing, hiking, etc.. Even… Read more »

Will
Member
Will

I open carry everyday,all day long ! Snowflakes like you are the problem. My rights don’t end where your feelings begin.

Superman
Member
Superman

No, bozos like YOU are the problem. Open carry equals a ‘free gun zone’ to criminals who distract those who open carry and whack them on the back of the head with a hammer or pipe. You don’t have eyes in the back of the head. Grow up.

Chris Mallory
Member
Chris Mallory

And if you look like defenseless prey you will be whacked on the back of the head and robbed.

Poppy Wayne
Member
Poppy Wayne

A lot of criminal element walking around with pipes & hammers where you live? Maybe you should practice situational awareness a little more often. Wise up!

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@PW, He lives at the liquor store, so … yes!

FORD Will
Member
FORD Will

THICK AIN’TCHA!

SGT_Wombat
Member
SGT_Wombat

Really, when had this happened? Any documented occurrences?

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Clark, Situational awareness is important, but a different issue.

Knute
Member
Knute

For the snowflakes like clarkent, “situational awareness” means “Always think of what others might be thinking… because you should do whatever their feelings dictate.”
I guess they think they’re mind readers or something. Well, it takes all kinds to make a world, i guess. But doing what crazies want just because they’re crazy seems to me to be highly counterproductive.

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Knute, Most humorous!

moe mensale
Member
moe mensale

The legislators of 45 states disagree with you regarding handguns. They believe it is the right thing to do. Unlike all the stupid virtue signaling we’re seeing today. Do you wish to be dictated to by 51% of the population? Or worse, children? I don’t. Maybe that’s why our country’s structure is NOT a democracy, contrary to what a lot of people believe.

Will Flatt
Member

Our Rights are more important than their feelings… but more important. we need to OC if for no other reason than to normalize the lawful carrying of firearms in the public’s mind. If we adopt a “don’t antagonize the Left/snowflakes/antigunners” attitude, we will LOSE.

Will
Member
Will

@Will Flatt,exactly right. Like I said before,everybody wants Open Carry in their states until they get it. Then they decide they will continue to Conceal Carry anyway for various reasons that make no sense.

Oldmarine
Member
Oldmarine

The law is the LAW ! Anyone who opposes or negates and criticizes it is acting against the Constitution and therefore failing the law. The law was not made for emotional people but to justify the reason/ intent of the law. No matter how you feel about carrying a gun/weapon, the law is plane and concise and needs no endearment or disagreement from individuals. It is not about emotions or trying to get around the law but enforcing the law, If open carry is legal in any State then No one should criticize or admonish anyone for obeying the law.… Read more »

Poppy Wayne
Member
Poppy Wayne

20 years ago, mainstream America would have never been accepting of a presidential candidate, kissing his “husband” on a political rally, yet today, it’s becoming the norm to see increasing instances of open homosexuality. If I or anyone else is offended by that, we’re told that we’re intolerant & homophobic. What’s good for the goose, etc., etc., etc., so open carrying will eventually desensitize the haters into a “tolerant state” of mind. Oh, I forgot…it’s a one way street with the left but that doesn’t affect MY rights. Do what you will but take that crap down the road to… Read more »

SGT_Wombat
Member
SGT_Wombat

Darn good point, we need to popularize the term Hoplophobe. It should be considered a mental condition.

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

Wombat, Do you know Jacque LeBlanc?

JoeUSooner
Member
JoeUSooner

It IS a mental condition. Insanity.

SGT_Wombat
Member
SGT_Wombat

That’s just TOO BAD for the Hoplophobe snowflakes.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@FlaB, Their “expectations” are wrong and need to change.