Old Nuremberg Trials and New Mandatory Gun Confiscation

Firearms Confiscation Orders Gun Red Flag Laws
Old Nuremberg Trials and New Mandatory Gun Confiscation

U.S.A. –-(Ammoland.com)- I’ve met many police officers who said they would never go door-to-door and confiscate guns. I’ve also met officers who would. Seizing someone’s property is a slippery slope, and the edge is closer than you might think. Several Democrat presidential candidates already called for gun-confiscation. None of the Democrat candidates denounced it. Consider how gun confiscation plays out from the police officer’s perspective. Some states have gun-confiscation laws in place already.

He is a “danger to himself or others,” or so the officer was told. Of course, that wasn’t exactly what the complaint said, and that isn’t really what the judge ruled. There are lots of little lies that grew as the story was passed from the estranged wife, to the divorce lawyer, to the prosecutor, to the judge. Now the confiscation order is passed down to the lieutenant and finally to the policeman.

That is how SWAT teams ends up at someone’s door in the middle of the night. That is the reality of an “Extreme Risk Protection Order” (ERPO).

We should expect more unjustified SWAT raids as the result of the recently passed Red Flag Gun Laws and ERPOs. There will be lots of mistakes since we have over a hundred million gun owners in the US. Throw in the facts that forty percent of households have a gun, and half of marriages end in divorce. Also consider the fact that there is no penalty for lying in family court. The stage is set for abuse and tragedy.

We’ve seen the law misused and abused already in family court, but now something has changed. Now the cops will come with guns drawn in order to disarm an innocent gun owner.

That increases the risk of violence, and the concern isn’t theoretical. We’ve already seen things go wrong. Policemen were shot when they smashed their way into the wrong house. Innocent homeowners were killed when cops stormed into their homes. Some of those police officers are on trial after they shot civilians in the middle of the night. More police officers will be charged as we see more gun-confiscation.

The police and other government officials should be charged and tried in court. Here is why.

After the midnight raid, the officer says he was just following orders. The officer asks for qualified immunity since he is a government employee following department procedures.

Now we will finally ask the question if qualified immunity can apply to an unjust law.

“Red Flag” gun laws are being challenged in the courts since honest and non-violent citizens are being punished without due process. That may mean the officer and his superiors can and should be charged if innocent people are injured after enforcing an unjust law.

We got rid of the excuse, “I was just following orders.” about 75 years ago. It wasn’t justified then, and Red-Flag laws don't justify it now.

The officers I’ve trained with know that gun owners don’t deserve midnight raids. They know that licensed civilians who carry guns in public are extraordinarily law-abiding and non-violent.

With an ironic twist, the officer's own words might be used to convict them in court;

“Tell me lieutenant, what would you do if someone broke into your home in the middle of the night?
“By the way, I have these sworn statements from the concealed-carry students you trained. You said an innocent person should stop the threat and then retreat until they can summon help.
“And here, lieutenant is a similar sworn statement by your ex-wife.”

Confiscating guns at gunpoint is playing with fire. Lots of us will get burned, and the best way to win is to not play.

We already have laws in place to help the mentally ill. Too often, we’ve had government officials ignore the pleas for help from the mentally ill and their family. Now we’ll have government officials putting more innocent people at risk in the name of public safety. That is a problem.

Government is a blunt tool. Use it carefully, and first do no harm. If SWAT cops at your door is the answer, then we’re asking the wrong question.

Please stay safe.


About Rob MorseSlow Facts

The original article is here. Rob Morse writes about gun rights at Ammoland, at Clash Daily, and on his SlowFacts blog. He hosts the Self Defense Gun Stories Podcast and co-hosts the Polite Society Podcast. Rob is an NRA pistol instructor and combat handgun competitor.

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jack mac
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jack mac

It appears that we will soon be forced to face liberty or death.

tomcat
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tomcat

I hope Trump is learning first hand what it means to be condemned guilty before a fair trial and not to be able to confront the accuser. It is all falling into place and he doesn’t like what is going on. Maybe he will rethink his statement about take the guns first then worry about due process. If any bill comes across his desk that is of the slightest positive for red flag laws maybe he won’t sign it.

Circle8
Member
Circle8

Many years ago I was talking with a friend and he made the statement “NEVER TRUST ANY ORGANIZATION THAT USES 3 LETTERS IN THEIR NAME e.g. ATF, FBI, etc.” This man was not a radical if fact he was a former Army Capt in Intelligence, has a Engineering degree from a University and was a practicing attorney for a international engineering construction corporation. Our offices were next door to each other and we had many conversations about the national problems caused by our 3 lettered organizations. Another wisdom of his was NEVER TRUST OUR GOVERNMENT which he learned from the… Read more »

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Circle, Roger that! Let me be the first to up click you. Do not trust them no matter how many letters in their names.

RayJN
Member
RayJN

“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the government and I’m here to help.” Ronald Regan

option31
Member
option31

Thank you for bringing up the results of the Nuremberg trials. Our country decided then that “following orders” was not acceptable if the orders were immoral or illegal. We must keep this in mind and mention the Nuremberg trial results every time a candidate or government official speaks of confiscation. Police especially need to be leery of such orders as when the tide changes they will be held accountable not their bosses or the politicians.

JPM
Member
JPM

Excellent article. A neighbor told me the other day that he wouldn’t voluntarily turn in his guns, but if the police showed up to take them he wouldn’t try to stop them. I told him that he might as well go ahead and get rid of them now as waiting for the police to show up means there is a good chance he’ll be arrested and could even be killed (by accident of course) when SWAT shows up to take his guns by force.

Knute
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Knute

Rob Morse is awesome. Had his website in my favorites for many years now. Don’t think I’ve caught him in even one error of fact in all those years. Impressive.

Gene Ralno
Member
Gene Ralno

The smart owner will become a clam, never speak again on the subject of firearms and treat girlfriends as spies. If you like your firearms you can keep them — but you must live in a new form of isolation. You’ll have to keep this part of your life a top secret. The grip of government is tightening. The democrat party has become an oppressive enemy. You’ll have to make sure your firearms aren’t documented and are well hidden. You’ll have to form associations that you trust in order to keep yourself sharp and your firearms clean and well regulated.… Read more »

Wild Bill
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Wild Bill

@Gene, That is no rant, that is good advice presented in a diplomatic way.

Deplorable Bill
Member
Deplorable Bill

Lets be clear. The RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BARE ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. I understand that to mean you have the right to be armed and carry said arms unless you are in prison or the loony bin — period. In Phoenix Az. there was/IS a string of home invasions during which the invaders wore police uniforms, badges and firearms. These things can be purchased on line or out of catalogues. I have seen them myself, just in case someone wants to question that last sentence. How do we know the difference? A tree is known… Read more »

Stuck in Commie Ct
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Stuck in Commie Ct

I do vote but unfortunately have no confidence in it. It’s just way to easy to swing votes by the corrupt system. There investigating how a politician convicted of corruption won in Hartford Ct. when the mayor running for re-election was actually doing some good things for Hartford and was extremely popular with the people.

Bluemax
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Bluemax

Deplorable Bill, A very well written comment. My thoughts exactly. Arm Up!

Country Boy
Member
Country Boy

it’s “keep and bear arms. Other than that you’re 110% correct though.

Donttreadonme
Member

Unless these unconstitutional erpo’s are squashed by the courts, they will gain traction. Bothq police and armed citizens will be shot during their executions.

In this country we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, and these laws violate that principle as well as our due process rights.

Will Flatt
Member

Nuremberg rules means if you’re sympathizing for the tyrants’ side, you’re one of the bad guys. All bad guys are targets of opportunity if (when) this goes hot. Saying you’re just following orders or that you were complying with the ‘law’ is not a valid defense. ALL laws repugnant to the Constitution are VOID (Marbury v Madison, 1803) 5 US 137. Enforcing non-laws is a felony. Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law is a FELONY. Deprivation of Rights threatening or using deadly force is a CAPITAL CRIME! Under extant law, we are within our rights to use lethal force… Read more »

Country Boy
Member
Country Boy

In other words. “calling it your job, ol, hoss, doesn’t make it right”
John Mellencamp

Will Flatt
Member

John Mellancamp is an antigun, lying scumbag POS libtard. He is part of the problem!

I’m from Indiana, I know…

Cam
Member
Cam

Most cops have no trouble using civil forfeiture laws to take people’s personal property without a trial. I doubt a lot will refuse to go take people’s guns.

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Cam, I agree. The Comprehensive Forfeiture Act of 1984 is so benign, that it is hardly noticeable. It can, however, be used to take everything that you have. It was supposed to be used agains drug traffickers living it up in the US, but it has been misused.

Finnky
Member
Finnky

@WB – Quite the understatement there. No cop I’ve spoken with has an problems with Civil Asset Forfeiture (CAF) either. From my point of view the very existence of CAF undermines all moral authority of all police anywhere in our country. Yes I respect them and am grateful for what work they do – do for us. However I do not trust any of them as far as I could throw one without being arrested for my efforts. Frankly, I am surprised that there have not been multiple officer shootings with legal defense of protecting one’s property. Wearing uniforms does… Read more »

Paul71
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Paul71

At some point someone in law enforcement is going to go through a bitter divorce with a vindictive spouse. It will be interesting to see if the spouse of the cop claims that they fear for their life and will their guns be confiscated under red flag law like anyone else.

Will Flatt
Member

We all know those “only ones” get special, deferential treatment. I would not spend time speculating about that; I would spend my time preparing for what comes next for the rest of us. If the politicians do this, civil war WILL break out and it’s gonna get sporty in a hurry! Will YOU be prepared? That is the question you need to ponder.

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@WF, If you still live in the city, any city, you are not prepared.

Finnky
Member
Finnky

@WB – Not totally disagreeing with you, but are the militarized law enforcement organizations going to act with more restraint in the city or where there are fewer “innocent bystanders” to observe their behavior? Compare and contrast Houston home invasion (in which couple and their dog were killed) to Ruby Ridge and Waco. None of these situations worked out to benefit of involved non-LEO. Having only heard anything about Bundy standoffs through mainstream media – cannot say I’ve heard much positive about their position or goals. However, they seem to have hit on tactics which worked. Get large enough numbers,… Read more »

RoyD
Member
RoyD

It doesn’t help when there are Fifth Columnists in our own midsts. When the Bundy thing was going on there were as many deriding them as there were cheering them on the GlockTalk site. It was pathetic. It wasn’t much better after Waco. And everyone is an expert, especially those who don’t know what they don’t know. You need to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Will Flatt
Member

Never underestimate the cravenness or cowardice of fudds. And yes, there are even fudd Glock owners. Fudds come in all shapes and sizes. No fudd is capable of understanding that nowadays in the age of unlimited government and creeping tyranny, we need citizen militias now more than ever, that we need “weapons of war” more than ever, and that we WILL INEVITABLY have to FIGHT or submit to every dictatorial edict that follows (God forbid!!).

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Finnky, Jurisdiction, brother, e.g. in my little county, outside all of the cities, there is only on LE agency … the elected County Sheriff.
Inside every city are PDs loyal to … the City Manager, Mayor, or City Council.
Inside big cities are Feds, State Police, Highway Patrol on and on. I don’t know who they are loyal to, but they have logistic, equip., and lots of people!
Yes, witnesses are good. Everyone in the city should have mutual defense pacts arranged in advance. Come on out for barbecue and leave that depressed thing behind.

Will Flatt
Member

@WB, no I do not live in any city. I’m waaaay out in the middle of BFE Indiana.

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

WF, An excellent choice!

tetejaun
Member
tetejaun

1. There is no Constitutional authority for local police. THAT was supposed to be the Militia or the armed populace at large. 2. Local police owe their allegiance to whomever signs their paycheck and funds their pension. 3. 97% of American gun owners will capitulate and will crawl over their neighbors to be the first to turn in their guns when told to do so. On April 19, 1775, government agents came to Concord, Massachusetts to collect the guns and ammo from the People. The People SHOT the government agents! WHY? Because the PEOPLE are the ultimate power & authority… Read more »

Captain Witold Pilecki
Member

I have been a non-compliant paper felon since 1994. I believe the majority of violent forced gun confiscations will be done dutifully by state and federal alphabet agency bureaucrats, not sworn law enforcement or military. The majority of them will either be too smart to die on their neighbor’s living room floor, or quickly learn the lessons from seeing others die in such a manner to participate en masse. The jack-booted military equipped confiscation goons will be just earning a paycheck while “doing their job.” They will have no knowledge of, nor would they care about, carrying out illegal orders… Read more »

Finnky
Member
Finnky

@WP – So you don’t think they will just up their game? More “surplus” military gear – go on gun confiscation raids (nominally to prevent suicide or other “gun violence”) in which they start the raid by pulling the front of the house down using tank like modifications to their hummer? If anyone shoots at them, they just light up the M2 – and problem solved. No suicide, no non-LEO violence. Level of force would be completely justified – because the LEO just have to do their job – and like anyone else, at the end of the day, they… Read more »

tetejaun
Member
tetejaun

So, you are saying just give up?
I am a veteran and your description has 100 holes in it. Heck, 5 kids with .22 single shots could stop the assault you spelled out.
Freedom demands BLOOD. Nothing else will do. Never has.

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@tt, you are going to get 5 kids with .22s killed. Freedom and victory demands clever ingenuity!

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Finnky, Flee the cities.

Will Flatt
Member

Yet I seriously doubt that your description applies to anyone who reads or writes for Ammoland, save for Harold Hutchinson. I know I sure as hell ain’t gonna comply with their tyranny. Am I in violation of SOMEthing? You betcha, even though I’m not sure what. THEY will make sh!t up just to justify trying to take the guns. However, 3% of the over 120 million lawful gun owners in America is over 3.6 million, arguably the world’s largest armed force outside of China. Many are veterans, who are force multipliers – especially our former Special Forces, SEALS, Rangers, Marines,… Read more »

RoyD
Member
RoyD

“Lavrentiy Beria, the most ruthless and longest-serving secret police chief in Joseph Stalin’s reign of terror in Russia and Eastern Europe, bragged that he could prove criminal conduct on anyone, even the innocent.
“Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime” was Beria’s infamous boast. He served as deputy premier from 1941 until Stalin’s death in 1953, supervising the expansion of the gulags and other secret detention facilities for political prisoners. He became part of a post-Stalin, short-lived ruling troika until he was executed for treason after Nikita Khrushchev’s coup d’etat in 1953.”

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@RD, Beria was too dangerous to let live.

Oldvet
Member
Oldvet

@WF…Truer words were never spoken. Just look at what they are doing to Trump . He is POTUS so does anyone think they would even hesitate to squash us peons ?

Will
Member
Will

@Oldvet,the difference is Trump has to remain diplomatic with this useless trash ! We don’t and won’t !

Will Flatt
Member

Pretty soon our diplomacy will consist of 150 grains of 308 freedom seeds

Will
Member
Will

@WF,you know, I really like my AR10’s prob.more than my AR15’s. There’s just something about the .308 that I’ve always favored. Perfect caliber !

Will Flatt
Member

Eugene Stoner’s original AR design was for the .308 for a reason. I believe firmly that you should NEVER second-guess GENIUS.

Will
Member
Will

@Will Flatt,he was genius for sure.

Green Mtn. Boy
Member
Green Mtn. Boy

April 19th, 1775 is a day of the greatest significance to the birth of this great nation. If they didn’t teach you about this date in your “American History” class I will gladly share the facts with you for “those who don’t know history (or I would add… willfully dare to ignore it) are doomed to repeat it’s mistakes…” On that specific day 700 British Red coats (what a coincidence! The Communist’s/Socialist’s favorite color!) under the command of Lieutenant Colonel FRANCIS Smith (wow! talk about coincidences!) marched on the Massachusetts town of Concord under ‘secret orders’ to seize colonial guns,… Read more »

Will Flatt
Member

Because the commies have taken over our education system (which happened because everyone disregarded the dire warnings of Joe McCarthy), generations of Americans have grown up not learning the lessons of our history. And as Santayana pointed out, those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it. So we need to prepare, another Revolutionary War is coming, and damned soon at that!

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@WF, wouldn’t be easier and cheaper to re-take the school boards? And parents and grandparents should be telling kids that the crap they are taught in school is crap to be disgorged for the test and then forgotten.

Will Flatt
Member

We’re too far gone for that. Those are half-measures at best. Yes, parents SHOULD be teaching their kids what the commie indoctrination centers won’t, but they shouldn’t even have their kids in there – they should be homeschooling or sending their kids to a church school! Plus, you have to consider too that kids are there for at least 7 hours a day, and parents can’t compete with that just on a hour-for-hour scale. They pick up their kids from the after-school daycare OR meet them when they get home from work, and not counting time spent prepping dinner or… Read more »

Oldvet
Member
Oldvet

@WB…I fear we do not have that kind of time.

tetejaun
Member
tetejaun

Then, WHY are not American parents teaching their children and grandchildren the TRUTH?
Too busy tapping on the phones they are addicted to?

Will Flatt
Member

…The younger ones? Millenials? Most likely. 35+ parents should be aware, but the communist infiltration of our educational institutions began 50 years ago and most everyone has their shoulder to the grindstone, even 2 parents working, just to make ends meet for their kids. No time to learn for themselves what they should’ve been taught when they were younger, and now be sharing with their kids. I blame the boomer generation!! People like my parents may not have had the internet, but they had a greater awareness of what was going on around them and more common sense, a virtue… Read more »

tetejaun
Member
tetejaun

I am with you. These pampered kiddies have no idea what pain & suffering is. That is why when the fascist ‘antifa’ terrorists attack, it is 300 to 10 conservatives.
A HARD RESET will be required. You are astute and correct.

Green Mtn. Boy
Member
Green Mtn. Boy

The Left has proven him correct.

tetejaun
Member
tetejaun

That “shot heard ’round the world” was fired on Concord green at the Concord bridge. The Minutemen travelled from Lexington to Concord to confront the British government agents. I went to college in Massachusetts and I walked that very path of the Minutemen on April 19, 1971. The story told as we walked by historians and again at Concord green.

tetejaun
Member
tetejaun

“By the rude bridge that arched the flood/Their flag to April’s breeze unfurled/Here once the embattled farmers stood/And fired the shot heard round the world.”
The Concord Hymn.
History is being re-written and you have fallen to the “new” history.
The ‘shot heard ’round the world’ was fired at Concord Bridge at Concord green.

Heed the Call-up
Member
Heed the Call-up

I have to strongly disagree with your assessment that 97% of firearm owners in the USA will just roll-over when told to and that we kneel the tyrant. The proof is in the passage of laws in NYS. They have gotten a very low compliance rate. In NYS they expected over one million, I believe it was about 1.5 million, firearms to be registered. Last number number I saw was about 70,000, about 6 years since passage of the 2013 “SAFE Act” – literally passed and signed in the dead of night. NYS has admitted that they cannot enforce it,… Read more »