Virginia – -(AmmoLand.com)- We need 10,000 patriots to fill the Capitol grounds for Monday’s rally!
Unfortunately, the Virginia Supreme Court just said they did not have enough information on the stay denied by the lower court to issue their own stay, so the Governor’s illegal gun-ban on Capitol grounds is going to stand for this event.
Here is what we need to do on Monday to make the rally a success:
DETAILS:
Virginia Citizens Defense League needs at least 10,000 members/gun owners to commit to “taking one for the team'” by entering the Capitol grounds unarmed around 10 am and is in place for the rally by 10:45 am. Those who were lobbying will already be unarmed, so we urge them to be part of the 10,000 inside the fencing.
NOTE: knives with folding metal blades less than 3-inches long are ARE permitted both in the General Assembly AND on the Capitol grounds.
For every one gun owner on the Capitol grounds, we need another two to five people outside the Capitol grounds’ fence on 9th Street. Those doing so can be legally armed.
If you can commit to being one of our needed 10,000 unarmed members inside the fence, please help us by asking several of your family and friends to be your designated armed escort to the gates and to stand outside the fenced area to watch over us.
WHY:
We are separating our responsibilities, in this otherwise untenable and unconstitutional situation foisted on gun owners by Northam. Gun owners standing, both inside and outside of the fence, ensure that the Capitol grounds and the surrounding area is filled to capacity to hear our speakers and it will make a great visual for the cameras!
For those who are going to be on the Capitol grounds, the fewer items you bring along, the quicker and more efficient the screening.
Virginia Citizens Defense League will have loudspeakers so that those outside the fence will be able to hear. The event will also be broadcast live on WRVA radio, 1140 AM /96.1 FM.
IMPORTANT:
We ask everyone to follow the temporary Capitol grounds rules. There is NO need for an act of civil disobedience to achieve standing for a court fight. We already have standing.
We still will have our day in court to fully debate the governor’s unconstitutional overreach in just a few short weeks.
Thank you very much for your support and understanding. The Governor and his cronies would like nothing better than to see the Capitol grounds empty, with the speakers talking only to themselves. We simply cannot let that happen.
PLEASE CHOOSE ONE:
- Arrive temporarily UNARMED and go INSIDE the fenced area on the Capitol grounds or.
- Stand with us, LEGALLY ARMED if you so choose, just OUTSIDE the fence and watch over your brothers and sisters inside the fence.
Either way, we’ll see you there!
FINAL NOTE:
Monday is going to be a day of lobbying, with a peaceful rally. All law-abiding citizens are invited. The Capitol, State, and Richmond police forces will be providing strong security. We thank them in advance for helping make sure that the event is a safe and fun event.
About Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL):
Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.
For more information, visit: www.vcdl.org.
FOR EVERY INDIVIDUAL THAT DISARMS TO GO INSIDE THE FENCE, ONE SHOULD BRING AT LEAST 2-4 FRIENDS WHO WILL STAY OUTSIDE THE FENCE, HEAVILY ARMED. ALSO BRING CAMERAS TO RECORD ALL CRIMINAL ACTIVITY YOU SEE!! THERE WILL BE BAD ACTORS MINGLED WITH THE RALLY-GOERS!
Yes, there’s been discussions online about the use of drones.
The gov banned drones to prevent accurate video of the rally numbers, as well as to shield the snipers on rooftops. They don’t want citizens to see the 50’s pointed down at them.
So how are you privy to such information? Are YOU manning the 50?
Loaded guns anywhere on the Capitol grounds is illegal. It is all a set up.
So KKK Northam can prove gun-owners are crazy troublemakers who break the law and must be disarmed.
READ the Virginia code, section 18-2.
How about you read what I actually wrote? I said that everyone outside the fence, that is, off capitol square, can still be armed. There is NO legal authority for suspending the right to keep and bear arms, certainly in the city at large. Carrying within the city doesn’t violate these commies’ precious ‘laws’. And since everyone going today will be alert to the set-up, KKKcoonman and his communist Politburo will only be exposed for their plan to overthrow the Constitution. Also, the state of emergency makes no distinction between loaded guns and unloaded guns on capitol grounds; how about… Read more »
Will Flatt, Richmond is one of the cities in VA that has a law that makes it illegal to have a LOADED semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that will hold more than 20 rounds on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William. Which also tells you which areas vote Blue.
I said nothing about firearms with 20+ rounds. Why are you trying to put words in my mouth, too, Dave??
Besides, just because a proven tyrant declares something illegal using a LIE to contrive a ‘state of emergency’, to suspend the rights of the people wholesale, doesn’t mean the people are under any obligation to obey. No, when proven tyrants apply the jackboot, we are absolved of any allegiance or duty to them. People need to stop sucking the Kiwi polish off the jackboot.
People showed up today massively armed with both guns and cameras and NOTHING HAPPENED!!
Will Flatt, No, of course I wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth, I was QUOTING the law, which you’d know if you’d checked the URL given earlier. Nobody is sucking anything. Whether a Law they pass is null and void, or not, has nothing to do with the immediate consequences. If you are arrested and your property is seized, having the case dismissed, or winning it later on, does you no good while you are sitting in jail and your property is either destroyed or stolen. We are very lucky that nothing happened. It could have easily gone… Read more »
@Dave You’re missing my point. Anything unconstitutional on its’ face is VOID. Citizens have no duty to obey and the police have no authority to enforce. PERIOD. Anything done to enforce a non-law is Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law, a FELONY, and doing so using deadly force can result in life imprisonment or capital punishment if the victim is killed. The one thing you quote (capitol grounds) falls under that category. Moreover, the order is unlawful. As for Richmond itself, Having ammo on your person and a cleared rifle is completely lawful and that’s how everyone I saw… Read more »
WF, I agree with the point about the laws being null and void. The problem is that we have 20L+ null and void gun laws which the police and fed are happy to enforce, without consequences to them, every day. As is pointed out regularly, ALL gun laws are bogus. That doesn’t make them go away though. That’s why I said the part about sitting and waiting in jail. I wish that a law just being unconstitutional made it disappear, but the courts including SCOTUS have been perfectly happy to go along with them despite that. I also agree that… Read more »
Dave, one final thought… Why aren’t more people demanding that police be properly educated about constitutional issues, and put an end to prosecutorial abuses / impeaching rogue judges?
We only get the tyranny we’re willing to tolerate.
Free your mind and your butt will follow.
Dave, the law is on mag limits, not on firearms that can take mags that hold more than 20 rounds. The mag limit only applies to those that do not have a CHP, or are not LE, military, etc. It also means that one can carry the larger mag, just not in the firearm, if one does not have a CHP (concealed handgun permit).
YOU ARE WRONG! READ THE LAW! I felt it was all a set up.
Stop attacking people who do not kneel and slobber over your incorrect assumption.
LEGAL RIGHT has noting to do with it. We are dealing with COMMUNISTS! The democrats wipe their butts with our Constitution every day.
Chill.
You’re actually making my argument for me, yes, commie tyrants have no respect for obeying the Constitution which absolves us of any requirement to obey them.
People need to stop trying to suck the Kiwi polish off the jackboot. Since when does ANYONE have the plenary power to suspend anyone’s rights??? Or make surrendering one or more rights a condition of exercising the other??
People showed up today massively armed with both guns and cameras and NOTHING HAPPENED!!
Thanks to VCDL and all that attend, inside and out.
We can all hope that today MLK might see his wish for a people to be free is realized.
Stay safe brothers.
The NRA screws America yet again.
From Reuters: “Anti-gun billionaires who invested millions in the 2019 Virginia elections expect a return on that investment,” said NRA official D. J. Spiker. “The NRA is fully prepared to work to defeat Governor Northam’s gun grab – but also work to find compromise.”
The NRA negotiated the NICS background check system into existence when we had none. Now they want to “compromise” with Blackface Northam!
Spiker is the NRA ILA head in VIRGINIA! He is undercutting us the same day of the rally!
Absolutely! I’m so done with them, and sick of hearing that one shill always defending them here.
@wjd – I’m perfectly willing to compromise. Not my money – so how about we recind NFA, GCA, and most of FOPA – the compromise is that they do not have to seek out all who paid into the tax stamp system and pay that money back. Easy for me to propose, since none of it is my money – but what say those who paid in?
Is that a compromise too far?
We also need those in manufacturing and distributing to start making a stand. Either you are with us or you are against us. Tell VA you will no longer sell the govt supplies or arms. Does anybody think that if these people get their way that all these distributors, ammo manus, and firearms manus will be needed or wanted? Sooner or later you’re toes up because their is not enough customers. We inflicted a lot of pain on Smith and Springfield its time to bring them all in and weed them out.
If you were that organized you woulda won the vote. Now you want to come back and punish others who have nothing to do with your political failure.
You’ve got it figured out….oh wait, maybe not.
@CL – Always enjoy the far side. Your usage is a thing of beauty. Did you add the text? Does seem like something Larson would have included… Political comics are great, but always seem to piss people off and lose customers 🙂
Guys, according to Oath Keepers, the bill that would have given the go to firearms confiscation has been dropped. We are NOT in a shooting war tonight. There was every reason to expect war and we are not out of the woods yet, at least until every other state recognizes the 2A as the law of the land. Until then, there is every possibility that 2020 would/will reflect 1775. Until EVERY free man and woman is recognized as rightly being able to keep and bear arms, we cannot be lax. The fight is not over.
Arm up, carry on.
The senate dropped 16 a few days ago. That was their AW ban and confiscate bill. House bill 961 (i think that’s the number) is still very much alive. It is a AW ban with a forced registry and you can only use them for specific things, and must have property owners permission if you live in an apartment.
Sorry for being the bearer of bad news.
@AZ – would thumb you down for nasty content, but that would be shooting the messenger.
Thank you for communicating the bad news. Forewarned is forearmed.
These democrats are definety working with and for Putin, they should be considered enemy’s of the state,
What? You “know” this, HOW?
@Bunk – I’m with CL on this. Specious accusations belong in the realm of the progressives. Provide proof or STFU.
Trolling perhaps? We aren’t biting!
Do any of you know if anyone attending has plans to livestream the rally or knows if a local new network will be covering the event?
Don’t forget get record anything that happens at the rally and do what ever you can to avoid trouble especially with antifa showing up and potentially starting trouble.
My Prayers were with Virginia and her people yesterday, Monday the 20th of January as they stood together to oppose the tyranny being fostered in their capital. While the Media and treasonous politicians tried to cast them as violent radicals nationally, they kept their cool whether armed or not. I can only hope that as many of them recorded as much video as possible to show the real story, video that can be posted everywhere to showcase the lies of the beltway Media. Also, going out on a limb, I have no doubt that gun control apologists will take a… Read more »
@ TheRevelator Tyrants (eg Northam) can only function when they have the coattails of Law Enforcement to hide behind. Without a willing (and I must say apathetic) LE, Northam and his ilk would not exist. Most historians will agree: dropping the atomic bombs on Japan – while as horrific as that event was – saved many thousands (perhaps millions) of lives. Early on, a well-placed bullet could have prevented World War II. The coming civil war will not be Patriots vs Antifa, but rather Patriots vs LE. It could be said that LE actually facilitates the unconstitutional behavior we all… Read more »
@Buster – LEO must work early and loudly to demonstrate their position. If they are not known supporters of the people’s rights, patriots will have no way to know that any individual LEO is not a threat – and thus likely to act in self defense against said LEO. Consider that while many LEO profess love of 2nd and pledge to not infringe – if state police are shot at while carrying out a raid, the local sherif and deputies are VERY likely to react in a predictable manner to any threat to the brotherhood. Until sheriff pledges not only… Read more »
@Finnky
That’s why many of them are working to prepare to deputize Constitutional gun owners to repulse any such attempts to carry out raids in their jurisdictions, hence the sanctuary status.
@Buster You better learn something pretty quick. Not all Law Enforcement are stooges, so don’t lump them in all as one. There are some very honorable and Constitutional men trying to provide cover for us currently in the Law Enforcement profession as we speak, and idiots who make threats based on a maleficent generalization to fit their conclusions are in no way patriots. There is a big difference between defending one’s rights and one’s self based on the actions of an attacker, and trying to justify violence and murder based on thought or someone’s profession. Your non-sequitur that you offer… Read more »
Yes, the rally was peaceful, and everyone was cordial to one another. Northam’s false claims that there would be extremists there to foment violence never occurred. The VCDL rallies have never had conflicts of clashes with anyone or any group. Not even extremists are stupid enough to become violent toward, typically hundreds of firearm owners; this event there were tens of thousands. The state police reported the crowd at 22,000; 6,000 in the cage, aka, Capital grounds, and 16,000 outside of it. Based on what I saw, I suspect it was at least 50% more than that, but even 22,000… Read more »
@Heed the Call-up “I believe the reason they hate firearm owners so much is that, I believe, we are one of the most self-reliant groups in the USA.” Its worse than that my friend. As long as we don’t disarm, and we stand ready to defend ourselves should they try to, they can never accomplish their real goals. Think of it this way, they don’t care that we don’t rely on the government so much as that they cannot FORCE us to rely on the government. If they were to try to institute full on socialism, knowing full well they… Read more »
Assault rifles, sniper rifles, and handguns among demonstrators at VA Lobby Day
Thousands of demonstrators, some armed, have swarmed the streets outside of capitol grounds.
https://www.wusa9.com/mobile/article/news/local/virginia/virginia-lobby-day-gun-rights-rally-draws-thousands/65-e0456d1e-aae9-4260-8d61-48ba7b274a42
Well you got 130k +
@chuckfab …and proved nothing, resolved nothing.
Live Streams
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/live-from-virginia-streaming-available-from-richmond-vcdl-gun-rights-rally/
No what you needed was to vote. You need Virginians to show up even now and can’t get them. You want “patriots” from elsewhere. Fix your own issues first.
Yeah, that has been working so well…
Tell em matt in Oklahoma..
I did vote, but my county district “conveniently” includes part of the city where the number of eligible voters far exceeds that of the county. Where the pro-rights candidate won handily in the county, the small part of the district in the city had more than enough votes to counter his being victorious in the county.
We will be sure to tell you the same thing you did us, when this happens to you.
https://jpfo.org/articles-2020/va-gov-sets-trap.htm?awt_a=A4_P&awt_l=CbKAQ&awt_m=K4.chBw2flZn_P
Godspeed Patriots
“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart. I have overcome the world.”
John 16:33
Virginia Law (outside the Capitol grounds security fence)
§ 18.2-287.4.
Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited
”The provisions of this section shall not apply to any person having a valid concealed handgun permit.”
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-287.4/
Yup. The WHOLE THING is a set up. PLUS, the fascist ‘antifa’ terrorists will be there to start trouble, along with the FBI assassins.
KKK Northam started the scare about ‘troublemakers’ so he could enlist the FBI’s help and when it happens, he can claim gun-owners are gun crazy murderers and their actions, though actually they be the actions of the FBI, PROVES Americans must be disarmed.
Jiaz, no, carrying loaded firearms is legal in Virginia, OC, there is no permit for that, and CC, CHP (concealed handgun permit) is required. You need to read the entire passage to fully understand the law. It concerns magazine size, no more than 20 rounds for a center-fired rifle or pistol, and no more than 7 rounds for a shotgun – with the exception that you noted, those with a CHP (concealed handgun permit), and of course, LE and military, etc. It also only applies in any public areas in the “Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News,… Read more »
Another thing wrong with calling all of those at the rally “White Nationalists” is that many were not white. I overheard, and saw someone, possibly a “blogger” doing a video on his phone stating that he saw none of the groups that Northam claimed would be there and felt safer there surrounded by firearm owners with firearms than he does any other day. He was a black man. I overheard similar comments from other black men that were also recording videos.
@Heed the Call-up
One of the news(local) groups had an interview with a black gentleman that I got to hear. Cant tell you if it was a radio or tv station doing it since I heard it replayed on the radio, but he was very well informed and told the reporter questioning him that he had driven a couple of hours from the western half of the state to be there. He had fun calling out Northam for his blackface incidents.
I wonder if that was the guy you saw, but it was heard nationally. 🙂
@wjd Because “White Nationalists” have a history of being linked with other groups like the KKK and NAZI groups here in the USA. It is a specific group, with a specific ideology behind it(Though they have been more low profile compared to some other organizations.) What the left and the Media try to do is substitute the group as the definition of Nationalism, or in other words trying to discredit Nationalists(those who value nationalism, or love of ones country). Nationalists are just people who for reasons of patriotism or isolationist views love their country and want to see “America First”… Read more »
Oldvet, we are not all “red neck gun nuts”. I’ve heard the term “yokel” used to reference people where I was raised, but that was just an ignorant comment from a city slicker (irony intended). That term was never directed at me, and now as a suburbanite, people assume I am a just a rube from the ‘burbs. I guess that makes me a ‘burban rube, though I prefer Scotch. 🙂 Its interesting how many ignorant people there are, and their wont of stereo-typing everyone, but that is how I stereo-type those people, the rube that I am. 🙂
@Heed the Call-up
Now that was a smart comment. 🙂
They were there to support Gun Rights.
https://www.teaparty.org/major-antifa-website-publishes-pro-gun-op-ed-from-virginia-resident-planning-to-attend-richmond-rally-425469/
I know, right? I’m from WA myself…hard to believe.
@GregK – Not hard to believe. Antifa is a loose coalition of people with nominal goal of preventing fascism. While it appears that the majority are young idiots in it just for a chance to riot, who are easily lead into pushing for their own brand of fascism – and who as the article says – act as thugs on behalf of the democrat party. In reality the remaining minority are a diverse group and include some deep thinkers. To extent they actually work for (or even think about) their nominal goal of opposing fascism – they must oppose gun… Read more »
Want to thank; Oathkeepers, Virginia LEOs, VCDL, III, All the honest media, ANTIFA, Black Panthers, NRA, and especially the Ma and Pa gun owner that showed up to Richmond in support of the 2nd Amendment. You pulled it off without a single incident. King would be proud to march with you all…Easily my best birthday ever!
Maybe you should just thank God, the true constitution loving Americans and go eat your cake.
Too soon? You still grieving because your own ego wasn’t supplied with the blood of a bunch of innocents? I could certainly use some Churchin’ up, but my hope is that you take your own advice and get a little closer to God yourself.
PS If you grow up we can eat cake together.
I took your post as sarcasm, if I’m wrong, I apologize! I knew there would be no blood today. Idiots don’t show up when they’re out numbered. I am the business administrator at my church and I haven’t met one person yet that couldn’t get a little closer to God, especially me. You bring the cake and I’ll take you to meet God, it’s never to soon!
@USA Virginia’s Antifa worked to seperate themselves from other Antifa groups/chapters around the country. While I do not agree with their Anarchistic/Anti-Constitutional view, I hope that they were indeed being honest about their non violent stance as compared to the rest of Antifa found around the nation, though I do reserve judgement until they prove themselves. What we should do is seperate those in Virginia from the rest of the country, and wait until they demonstrate hypocrisy over what they have said. It may very well end up being the key to toppling the Media’s narative defending left wing violence… Read more »
@USA Again, lets keep talk about Virginia on Virginia. If you have evidence going on in Virginia at the rally then please show it, otherwise your condemnation of Greg(Who was strictly referring to virginia) was out of place based on what you tried to offer as evidence. Now in this comment you jumped around quite a bit, some of which is obviously NOT REFERRING TO ANYTHING IN VIRGINA. Again, the article is VIRGINIA LOBBY DAY, about things happening in VIRGINIA, not Oregon. With that in mind…. 1. Do you have any evidence of “Sheep” being victimized by Antifa in VIRGINIA… Read more »
Well then, Looks like all he could do was downvote, since he couldn’t answer the questions at this time. 🙂
My my, how telling.
I have heard that Soros’s army of idiots, ANTIFA is going to show up with MAGA hats and NRA T-shirts and try to wreak havoc so the pro gunners get blamed BE CAREFUL
I really didn’t think the little communist (BLM, Antifa) would show up! They only show up as cowards when they have the upper hand or majority. Little chicken shits are afraid of a real American fight with real Americans!
@wjd a bunch of corn-fed pussies is what I seeing.
Personally, I believe the rally to be a waste of time for pro-2nd Amendment advocates as liberals and Democrats are already in power and don’t give a flying fig what anyone else says or does. Hindsight being 20/20, yes, pro-gun advocates should have voted, but didn’t. Recall petitions should be the main thrust post 2nd Amendment Sanctuary declarations and efforts on those should be primary with more focus on with additional efforts on preparing for resisting confiscation efforts, which no doubt will be coming and not wasting time and money on impotent protests. The other thing I see as possible… Read more »
JPM stay home and hide. You gotta be a democRAT because of the references you make to nazis. Shut up.
No, unclejack, I’m not a Democrat and the references come from being well educated, smart and having an in-depth knowledge of history. I won’t stay home and hide, I’ll be loading ammo and cleaning guns and preparing for what is coming, not wasting my time running my mouth and strutting around like a fool rooster accomplishing nothing. Read a book, if you can.
Boy do you have your history all screwed up. Oh, that’s right, you read the victors version. Never mind.
I’m with uncle Jack on this one. Will be attending a rally in my home state FL( who by the way has more CCP than any other state) next friday so JPM jus stay home and hope the wolves don’t come to your door first.
I’ll be spending my time preparing for the wolves, not wasting it on protests and demonstrations that will have NO effect on the antis.
JPM, no, the rally will probably not change their views. But the lobbying on Lobby Day and the rally afterwards has been a practice of the VCDL for about 2 decades, so it will continue on. It is not ineffectual to show support of one’s beliefs. The Democrats views do not need to be changed, they only need to understand the political consequences of their actions. They may not believe today that there will be negative political consequences, but that does not mean there will not be. Through lobbying, the VCDL has been effective in getting pro-rights laws passed, making… Read more »
@HTC – JPM’s point that CORE democrats will not be swayed is correct. However the protest may sway many who yet wonder. Most people are not fanatics one way or the other. For those people seeing their elected officials utterly ignore such a massive, emotional plea for relief – may sway them to vote republican or sit out the next election. Most politics is won through swinging those in the middle. While nice to gain devoted followers, in an election votes are not weighed by the passion behind them. May not like or agree with them, but get a few… Read more »
Finn, yes, I agreed with him on that point, and that is what I stated. What I disagreed on was his stating the rally was a waste of time, which you appear to agree with me about. And, yes, only a few legislators need to vote correctly to stop the bad legislation. I realize I did not state that in this post, but I have stated numerous times in relation to this legislative session. And, yes, I did state that the rally should have opened the eyes of at least a few Democrats.
I would not be there on a bet. It is a set up. Even outside the fence, with a loaded gun is illegal.
But, my vest is loaded, my bag packed and I am ready to go should shooting start.
Your rhetoric indicates that you are hoping that a shooting incident happens.
Wow! You are the most stupid yellow coward to date.
Congratulations.
You must be a communist democrat screaming yellow coward.
I guess some people are okay with getting their ass kicked by trannies… antifa queers who have rocks and baseball bats I for one think that my
Daniel defence m4v7 ( tactical folder) of course would change the attitude of those threatening my 2nd amendment rights, so you go tetejaun (hope for the best prepare for the worst)
@first student, Yep 911 or 1911? Easy choice.
Always..pray for peace, prepare for war.
tetejuan, no, carrying outside the “protected” zone is not illegal. Even carrying inside the “protected” zone is legal, even if his “rule” states otherwise. However, even OC is legal in the city of Richmond, as well as, of course, CC. Yes, I attended, yes, I was armed, and no, I did not enter the “protected” zone. The citizens of Virginia got to see that tens of thousands of firearm owners are not the problem. They got to see Northam’s fear tactics, and the bitter cold, did not keep, the reported, over 22,000 citizens from attending. In the 2 decades that… Read more »
Only a very naive person would enter a gun free zone at such an event. And by the way, VCDL, the supreme court of your state has already told you what they think of your court ‘standing’. WAKE UP!
Coming from you, the twelve year old who posts while living in your mom’s basement. Do you have a father at home and does he know what you are doing?
Do you?
Now that’s funny, exactly what I was thinking.
@wjd, It seems that a very impressive number of people disagree with Cluck enough to spend energy down voting him.