Coronavirus and Politics – a Disease of the Haves and the Have Nots

Shopkeeper Arrested in Arizona
Shopkeeper Arrested in Arizona

U.S.A. –-(Ammoland.com)- My friends are out of work. One of my friends had to terminate hundreds of her employees and give them their last paycheck. Politicians turned the flu into a political weapon. Now, small business owners face bankruptcy if they stay home, or jail if they open their shops. Thousands of us in fly-over country are paying with our lives because people in New York City want to live shoulder-to-shoulder. Coronavirus and politics is a disease of the haves versus the have nots.

There are 8.5 million people living in the five boroughs of New York City. Covid-19 is seldom fatal, and only two New York City residents out of a thousand have died from it. Almost all of those victims had other pre existing illnesses like obesity, diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, emphysema, or another chronic lung disease. Most of the people who died in New York City of Covid-19 had not one, but two of those illnesses before they got the coronavirus of 2019.

In response, congressional democrats firmly represented the special interests who elected them and filled the virus-relief package with pork. It was another “You have to pass it to find out what’s in it.” moment from Nancy Pelosi. We saw politics as usual, including the quarantine orders. We shut down the USA to make New York City feel better about their lifestyle choices.

My friends out here in flyover country have bills to pay and lives to live. Moms are being arrested for taking their kids to an empty park while Barack Obama plays golf during the quarantine. Politicians who have a year’s worth of ice cream in their freezer, and hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank, say we should stay home. We should stay unemployed while China buys our food producers and our oilfields. Democrat politicians say ‘We had to kill you in order to save you.’.. from a virus that will kill two-out-of-ten-thousand of us.

That is our choice to make, not theirs.

The Covid-19 virus is about twice as dangerous as the ordinary flu since the flu usually kills one out of ten thousand of us each year. For perspective, so does suicide, or at least that was the old suicide rate until politicians increased unemployment tenfold.

I predict that when we add it all up, the political cure will be worse than the medical disease and I hope that I am wrong.

Politicians and the news media are acting for their interests. The news media tells us that we are in danger so we’ll watch their next advertisement. Politicians say that they will save us from the flu..as long as we stay home and become dependent on them.

Don’t take this lying down. Call your political representatives and demand your freedom. Do what is best for you, not what is best for them. New York City will have to wipe its own nose this time.


About Rob MorseSlow Facts

The original article with sources is here. Rob Morse writes about gun rights at Ammoland, at Clash Daily, and on his SlowFacts blog. He hosts the Self Defense Gun Stories Podcast and co-hosts the Polite Society Podcast. Rob was an NRA pistol instructor and combat handgun competitor.

 

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Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

This Just in: “Dr. Luc Montaignier, Nobel prize winner for identifying HIV virus, gave his opinion on the origin of the Wuhan Virus. Dr. Montaignier’s opinion is that the Wuhan Virus was man-made in the Wuhan Institution of Virology P4 lab. He stated that RNA elements of HIV are present in the genome, clear evidence of human intervention that can only happen in a lab. Indian research produced the same conclusion, but they were unable to publish their research due to mainstream media pressure to suppress their findings. Dr. Montaignier insists that the HIV elements could only be inserted in… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

This video has more background information on what the Wuhan lab was doing, who was doing it, and with which funding. Hint: We funded the work there and we just only very recently cut the funding! https://youtu.be/R6y8dlhoMpo PS: The Peak Prosperity YouTube channel was one of very few that was on this topic early on and with scientifically backed up arguments. It pointed out the lies of China and the dangers of a pandemic in January. It also debunked several pseudo-scientific studies, including the two California antibody studies. It is a non-nonsense channel that doesn’t push conspiracy theories for political… Read more »

Arny
Arny
1 year ago

And maybe this would interest you ? https://youtu.be/C2CsNqHFx68

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Arny

, It might interest me if I knew what it was about; if I knew it was save to go to that site; and if I knew it was truthful.

Tionico
Tionico
1 year ago

Rob, great piece, and right in the ten ring.

You did leave ot one aspect of this whoe shemozzel…… the way this is being politicised to make Orange Man Bad appear to be Orange Man Evil And Bad and has Planned this whole mess…… the are STILL on about destroying his presidency, as they’ve been going on five years now.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago

@Wild Bill, while that whole money scheme is true for COVID-19 deaths, the EXCESS number of deaths in states, like New York, and cities, like New York City, tell the story and federal funds are not based on the number of those deaths. If it is not COVID-19, then something else is killing off people at an alarming rate.

From March 8 to April 11, 2020, the deaths in NYC were 225% (or 11,900 deaths) above normal. That’s right, more than 3 times of people died in NYC during that period from ALL CAUSES than during a normal year.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

@CF, What are you suggesting is the cause?

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Wild Bill, COVID-19, but then the gun community is full of COVID-19 truthers that would rather shoot the messenger than believe in reason.

Tionico
Tionico
1 year ago

anyone else rmember how Gov Cuomo in NY ORDERED hundreds of known actively infectied china virus cases be placed in care facilities that so far had not had ANY active cases…. for “rehab”… those forced intrusions resulted in hundred, even thuosands of deaths in those facilities as the virus raged through the most vulnarable segmants of NYC.
Also, other NY loudmouths were declaring early on “hey come on out and party, that virus is no big deal. Chinese New Year’s is a blast…. nothing to worry about……..

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Tionico

@Tionico, unfortunately, the loudmouths declaring that the virus is no big deal are now the gun community and many conservatives. Sad, very sad! They apparently did not learn from the idiocy performed in New York City, New Orleans and on Florida’s beaches. Italy even had a “hug a Chinese” campaign. There were clear profit motives behind the idiocy in New York City, New Orleans and Florida. My fear is that the current minimization of the virus is driven by profit motives as well. Our rights do not depend on how serious this virus is! In fact, the more dangerous it… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago

, believe in what you want. Just two months ago, the liberals were calling this virus a nothing-burger and called out President Trump for closing the border to China. We all cheered when President Trump did this, because it saved many American lives. Now, the conservatives are calling this virus a nothing-burger. I see no difference in either irrational behavior.

Let me ask you this then: Since the virus is a hoax, President Trump should immediately open all of our borders to non-essential travel, such that our business travel and vacation industry can resume operation, right?

Sapper04
Sapper04
1 year ago

You need to do the math on this. The % of the population by state and country are insignificant numbers. I am not minimizing those killed by this but everyone dies. I know it stings when one loses a loved one. Blame the chins for these American’s deaths if you have to. You are relying on the hysteria of the political\bureaucrat hacks, side being irrelevant. More people die of cancer every year than this Wuhan virus so why isn’t there such the uproar over that? You need to accept the fact you are already dead then you can go about… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Sapper04

@Sapper04, you need to check your non-existed math! I have done mine. It is in one of my posts on this site. I posted it below again for you to read. Also, cancer kills about 51,000 Americans per month. This virus has killed 60,000 Americans just in the month of April! I would call the denial of the fact that the corona virus kills more Americans than cancer pure hysteria. Yes, we should go about living our life, but just as with cancer, we should be aware of the dangers we are facing in life and not ignoring them because… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 year ago

Hi All. Mr. Foxtrot, it’s interesting that you would tell someone else to check their math, when your math has been inflated by over 600%. You stated that in April alone, C19 killed 60,000 Americans. That is the death toll from the beginning of C19 deaths in the USA. As of 5/3, the total death count is over 65,000, for the entire U.S., since C19 started here. That is from the CDC page. I am not going to link it, it’s easy to find through Google. Those #s are confirmed and presumptive cases, actual #s could be lower or higher.… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

@Jim, paragraphs, man, paragraphs make reading your wall of text easier. There were 6,394 deaths on April 1 and 65,753 deaths on May 1 according to: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/, which makes 59,359 deaths in the month of April. Please show me where I am wrong by 600%! YOUR math is way off and not based on any scientific facts! Here are the basics about deadly infectious diseases: – They stop either when they are contained through isolation or herd immunity. Containment through isolation seems to be out of the question now. Herd immunity requires 60-80% of the population to be immune against… Read more »

HoundDogDave
HoundDogDave
1 year ago

The longer this goes on, the more I have my doubts of the actual threat. There are FAR TOO MANY deaths being attributed to COVID-19 that could likely be from any normally present seasonal flu going around right now too. Along with attributing COVID-19 for deaths that normally happen each year due to other medical conditions. What I would like to see is a direct comparison between ALL deaths in the U.S per capita due to ANY medical reason (not associated with accidental or intentional loss of life) tor for the first quarter of each year for the last 20… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  HoundDogDave

@HoundDogDave That comparison has been done. Unfortunately, it contradicts the believe that COVID-19 is not dangerous, so it is ignored and the messenger is attacked. Here is the study: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html For some reason, people have set their mindset that COVID-19 must NOT be dangerous, so we can just continue with our lives and the government actions are unwarranted. Showing data that COVID-19 is dangerous invalidates that argument. No matter how dangerous COVID-19 is, the government actions are NOT warranted. Minimizing the existing dangers of the virus just means more people will get it and die from it before we have… Read more »

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

@CF, In the middle ages people used to die of the common cold. Then the human population got herd immunity. When we get herd immunity to the Chinese Corona virus, we will have a similar result.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Wild Bill, you misunderstand what herd immunity means. Herd immunity is about enough people had it or are vaccinated against it, so that only very, very few get it and can infect only very, very few others. That’s how infectious diseases, like polio or measles, are eradicated. We still have millions of cases a year of the common cold. The reason we don’t die from it is not herd immunity!

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

@CF, Get it or die from it?

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Wild Bill, What are you asking? Did everyone in the US get or die from polio, measles, HIV or Ebola?

HoundDogDave
HoundDogDave
1 year ago

Thanks Charlie, I hadn’t seen that before. Guess that answers my question. So the government needs to get out of my way and let me deal with that threat as I see fit.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  HoundDogDave

Exactly! The government micromanaging everybody and telling everybody what they are allowed to do and what not is pure communism.

Ansel Hazen
1 year ago

A recent Stanford medical study in Kalifornia is showing that the infection rate is 50 to 85 times what has been previously thought. Which upends the current death rate figures and drops it to between 0.12% and 0.2%. Quote: “That also means coronavirus is potentially much less deadly to the overall population than initially thought. As of Tuesday, the US’s coronavirus death rate was 4.1% and Stanford researchers said their findings show a death rate of just 0.12% to 0.2%.” THIS WHOLE THING IS A SETUP. Likely the latest version of the Deep State or whatever you want to call… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Ansel Hazen

@Ansel Hazen, The two antibody studies in California (in Santa Clara County by Stanford University scientists and in Los Angeles County by University of Southern California scientists) that claim that a lot of people have already been infected used the same antibody test from China that is known to be highly inaccurate. It even detects a common cold coronavirus (HCOV-OC43) and the influenza virus as COVID-19. China finally banned that test from exportation, because it is so inaccurate. The Santa Clara County study also recruited participants via Facebook and personal e-mail blasts, and not randomly, which introduces selection bias. Both… Read more »

Ansel Hazen
1 year ago

I first heard that report on short bits of Rush Limbaugh that I get to listen to. I will have to see if he sticks to the story or backs off. I will say I am more likely to believe what comes from his mouth these days than any “scientist”. They all seem to be in someones pocket to keep the grant money flowing.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Ansel Hazen

@Ansel Hazen, You are free to believe in what an entertainer has to say about science over what actual scientists have to say. Not much different in believing what Hollywood has to say about science. LOL The irony here is that you believe in a study by scientists, because an entertainer repeats it! Yet, you don’t believe other scientists that peer-reviewed the study and call it BS, because the entertainer doesn’t agree! LOL You do understand that Rush Limbaugh has his own motives, including profit, right? This may be an interesting article for you: “We’re Not Used to Scientists Telling… Read more »

Knute
Knute
1 year ago

Perhaps you should both give a listen to an actual medical doctor instead?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2958&v=M_9bQ_Ri9p0&feature=emb_logo

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Knute

@Knute Knute, Dr. Tenpenny is a well-known anti-vaxxer that thinks vaccines cause autism. According to her, no vaccine in the world works, ever. She has never performed any research or clinical trials in immunology or vaccinology, or published any peer-reviewed scientific articles in this area. She is a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine! LOL So, what you call “an actual medical doctor” is a highly discredited person who seeks fame in conspiracy theories in an area that she does not even have expertise in. Instead, I read research papers published by people who are actual experts in their area that are… Read more »

Knute
Knute
1 year ago

Not at all what was said. Did you even watch?
You do realize that “shooting the messenger” is the preferred strategy of the tyrants that you claim to hate right? Meaning: attack the character of the one talking (like you just did), while utterly ignoring (distracting attention away from…) the actual message?
So, would you be interested in a detailed discussion of the actual message here, or only in distracting away from it?
I believe someone here once said “you can certainly have your own opinions. However, personal attacks don’t {IN}validate them!”, didn’t someone? 🙂

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Knute

@Knute Knute, LOL. Yes, I watched the video. It is a mix between true information, lies and outright nonsense. Going through each sentence in the video and point out the lies and nonsense would take up a significant amount of my time and space in this forum, and then you wouldn’t listen to it anyway. What’s the point? If you have actual individual factual points to discuss from this video, then go ahead and post them in this forum! As for shooting the messenger, what’s the message in the video? Here is a fact, NOTHING absolute NOTHING is safe in… Read more »

Knute
Knute
1 year ago

I do.
First off, WHY would the pro vaccine side speak out for a debate, agree to such, and then not show up? As the MD in the video said, why would they NOT want to show them up as the fools you are claiming them to be, if it were really so easy as you say?
They won’t speak on this question at all. Will Charlie? Or do you prefer insults and ridicule to facts, the same as the anti-gun side does?

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Knute

, what debate are you talking about that nobody showed up? Again, if you have actual individual factual points to discuss from this video, then go ahead and post them in this forum! If you want a discussion here, you need to actually make your arguments with factual points. So, what debate?

Finnky
Finnky
1 year ago
Reply to  Ansel Hazen

@AH – You clearly have not met too many serious scientists, have you? You listen to media personalities (who thrive only on dissent, controversy and sensationalism) for your advice on whether to pay attention to people who have devoted their lives to studying a particular field and to pursuit of truth. Much research is done by young idealistic individuals, who must write up not only results but methodology thoroughly enough to get studies through peer review. Peer review is often conducted by older, more seasoned individuals who apply stong cynism as well as experience in evaluating merits of the material.… Read more »

uncle dudley
uncle dudley
1 year ago

What bothers me the most about this covid-19 outbreak is how the government wasn’t prepared to handle it and it brings to mind how horrible it would be if a terrorist got their hands on some smallpox virus and spread it in a major city subway, airport or water supply system.

Oldman
Oldman
1 year ago
Reply to  uncle dudley

@ud, There lies the problem……We in America have decided to let the guvment take care of us rather than the other way around. If they are not capable of doing the job we hired them to do in the way we want it done , we vote them out of office, and if they won’t go, we storm their offices and homes and anywhere we find them, we take them to trial and if found guilty, a rope and a tree is their plight.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  uncle dudley

@ud, It is a virus. No government nor all governments can not stop it. I’m gonna get it and you are gonna get it. Oh, and didn’t you get your small pox inoculation?

Laddyboy
Laddyboy
1 year ago
Reply to  uncle dudley

Looking and reading many OFFICIAL governmental REPORTS show that the 0bama regime allowed the medical field of prevention to diminish to almost nothing. American companies were almost PUSHED to move overseas. Thus the CCP got a major hold on or in the medical fields. These IMPORTANT companies MUST be HERE in America.

JPM
JPM
1 year ago

Apparently the media and government sponsored fear of a virus with a 98% survival rate has shown how the majority of American citizens are more concerned with their personal “comfort” (it’s not really about safety) than they are about their personal freedoms. As such, to paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, they deserve neither.

Jeffersonian
Jeffersonian
1 year ago

There is no “law” police would not enforce.
There is no order police would not obey.

Justista
Justista
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeffersonian

Watching what is happening to America and I can’t help but think what you say is true.
I didn’t used to, but now one can see it nationwide.

Mudhunter
Mudhunter
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeffersonian

There are a few refusing to comply, but nowhere as high a percentage it should be.

JH1961
JH1961
1 year ago

But COVIID-19 *isn’t* as deadly as the political Left wants the world to believe. My 84-year old mother-in-law survived it and she’s an invalid. We are just finding out that a large number of *presumed” COVID-19 deaths WEREN’T. They were the result of the PLAIN OLD FLU. Get your heads out of your derrieres and. THINK!

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  JH1961

, so we had suddenly tens of thousands of people die of the flu in the past two months? That would mean we have a really dangerous flu going around. It seems to be a common argument to question the number of deaths in order to minimize the virus. This is NOT necessary, or are you saying that if the virus is really dangerous the government actions are warranted?

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

@CF, What evidence, in your mind, would minimize the lethality of the virus?

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Wild Bill, What exactly are you asking? I was talking about people questioning the number of deaths in order to minimize the virus. Minimize in this context means to make it appear less lethal than it actually is, or in other words lying about the impact of the virus. So, to answer your question in the context of my post, lying about the impact of the virus would minimize the lethality of the virus. Does that answer your question?

Snuffy
Snuffy
1 year ago

I became a Conservative in my 19th year when I realized that, when left alone by the forces of government, Americans were quite capable of recognizing problems, thinking them through, and solving them themselves. What’s more, the Constitution recognizes their freedom to do just that.

BrainMatters
BrainMatters
1 year ago

COVID-19 is far less dangerous to healthy adults than Hong Kong Flu (H3N2) was in 1957 (no death toll data) and 1968. Once the number of death currently attributed to COVID-19 are compared to just 1968, we are going to need some 750,000 more deaths worldwide to equal it’s death rate. This pandemic is more a Communist Tactical Economic War than a true health danger. There is perhaps so much misinformation being spread, the average person that just sits in front on one of the socialist leaning propaganda networks will leave there house with gloves and an mask that has… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  BrainMatters

@BrainMatters, this is what your 96.4% chance of recovery may look like: Nick Cordero is a 41-year old Broadway actor who first entered the ICU on March 31 when he was “having a hard time breathing” after being diagnosed with pneumonia. He had tested negative for COVID-19 twice before a third test came back positive. He was put on a ventilator and on dialysis. He was initially treated with blood thinners helping to ease some clotting in his leg, as he had difficulties getting blood down to his toes. However, this caused issues with his blood pressure, as well as… Read more »

Finnky
Finnky
1 year ago
Reply to  BrainMatters

@BM – A mask is not there to prevent you inhaling microparticles. It is there to catch large droplets if you cough. The disease in asymptomatic in many, if not most, who have it – so you could be an unwitting vector. Thus the mask is a way of politely protecting others. Do you not carry a firearm, knowing you might have to kill – inot only to protect yourself, but in protection of others? Think of wearing a mask in public as another aspect of being a sheepdog.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago

So, Ammoland joins the chorus of the stupid with commenting on COVID-19 policies using flimsy and misleading arguments. First, the shutdown is illegal and impractical. It doesn’t require making up numbers about the virus to know and see that! Second, the virus is actually quite dangerous. Ignoring that just keeps it alive and kills and injures more Americans. One can take this virus serious, fight the virus and fight an overreaching government. These goals are not mutually exclusive! It will take months, if not years to fight this virus. The shutdown is a simplistic and unsustainable solution. If everyone would… Read more »

Jeremy B.
Jeremy B.
1 year ago

“Covid-19 is seldom fatal”…
For perspective, 9/11 killed about 3,000 Americans. This launched Enduring Freedom and Iraq killing nearly 7,000 more Americans over more than a decade.

Covid has killed 6 times that. It will kill 10-20 times that before the summer is over.

Be an adult, wear a mask, stay away from other people unless you have no choice. Don’t be a victim of Covid. Don’t help spread Covid.

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy B.

B
All new strains of virus are devastating because we have not built up an immunity to it it’s new and it’s not going anywhere.
But if you want to stay in your home wearing a mask for the next 5 yrs go right ahead that’s just what they want you to do, it’s easy to see that you TAKE THE BAIT from what your leaders tell you. Get out of your house and on with your life you will be okay.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

, That is a good point. The decision to isolate, wear a mask, wash hands, or do nothing at all is the decision of every individual American, not the government. This is a Constitutional Republic not a collection of fifty tyrannies or a democracy.

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Wild Bill
Last I checked that is correct sir.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Wild Bill, you are correct! It is an individual decision. It is not the government’s job to protect people from themselves.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago

, it is up to you to believe in the reported numbers or not. You have to deal with the consequences of your own actions.

It is the same issue with guns. We carry them, because of a danger that we believe it exists. Those that don’t are free to do so and have to deal with the consequences of their own actions.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago

@wjd, the numbers I speak of are deaths from ALL causes that are up significantly, completely independent from how they are classified. Read and learn: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html Do you somehow believe that your rights depend on how dangerous this virus is? That’s the fallacy many here make! Our rights do not depend on how dangerous this virus is! So, now that we have acknowledged that, let’s dispense with kooky conspiracy theories that minimize this virus for no reason whatsoever and acknowledge that this virus is problematic based on the actual numbers we see! By the way, many fail to realize that… Read more »

Snuffy
Snuffy
1 year ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

Well said. Besides, a life without risk is not worth living.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy B.

, Disease has always killed more victims than man’s puny efforts.

KCsmith
KCsmith
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy B.

Another victim of media propaganda. Try thinking for yourself.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  KCsmith

, Yeah, JB, thinks that he is going to survive everything!

Justista
Justista
1 year ago

“we are still undercounting COVID-19 deaths.”

I call bull shit on this and history will prove you wrong. Democrat cities where they get paid by the body/patient count are severely over counting

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Justista

@Justista It seems to be a common argument to question the number of deaths in order to minimize the virus. This is NOT necessary, or are you saying that if the virus is really dangerous the government actions are warranted? As for the counting of COVID-19 deaths, do you know how we count flu deaths? Here is a hint, we don’t count those accurately either, we estimate them! It is a common misconception that one even can count infectious disease deaths accurately. However, without testing every single death, we can’t and we don’t do that even for the flu! Flu… Read more »

gregs
gregs
1 year ago

you are wrong on so many points. all virus are dangerous to people. the main reason that people die from a virus is co-morbidity, other ailments they have when they contract the virus. we have few vaccines that work for the many virus that affect mankind worldwide. the common flu is not one of them, and 50% of Americans do not get the flu shot. the best way people can help themselves is to eat healthy and live a healthy lifestyle to maintain a robust immune system. the numbers have been artificially inflated by directives from government officials mandating reporting… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  gregs

@gregs, you make rather generalized and incoherent statements. The main reason that people die from Ebola is co-morbidity? Who knew? Maybe they should appoint you as the head of the CDC! LOL Here is an actual source on how many people get the flu shot: http://thenationshealth.aphapublications.org/content/47/9/E45. What’s yours? It seems to be a common argument to question the number of deaths in order to minimize the virus. This is NOT necessary, or are you saying that if the virus is really dangerous the government actions are warranted? As for the counting of COVID-19 deaths, do you know how we count… Read more »

RoyD
RoyD
1 year ago

CF: Regarding the flu shot I and my wife both got it last year and yet we both fell ill with flu like symptoms. I came down with it first on Feb 15, a day and also a week after we had gone to shows at Windstar in south Oklahoma. Windstar is the largest casino in the US and second or third in the world and also has a 3500 seat entertainment venue. My symptoms were a very sore throat and a dry cough and a very little color in my spit, which I treated with an antibiotic. My back… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  RoyD

, there is definitely the aspect of the flu shot sometimes only being 50% effective, since the flu may mutate from season to season. The flu shot contains actually multiple vaccines against different strains. The vaccine composition changes over the years to keep up with the mutations. Only a reliable antibody test will show you if you had COVID-19. It will take a while until they are publicly available in a reasonable number.

PS: I had a two-months dry cough as well, starting in late January, and I am suspicious about that too!

Finnky
Finnky
1 year ago

@CF – Not months or years – we are more likely to be fighting this virus for decades. Yes we should take precautions and “flatten the curve” – though survival rate of those on ventilators (<<20%) means we are really dependent upon people's immune systems. Destroying the economy is not helpful in this situation and making people "stay at home" is counter productive unless they continue getting sufficient exercise, socialization and a healthy diet. Current situation is contributing to an already devastating obesity "epidemic" in this country, and will only serve to reduce most people's immune system – worsening the… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Finnky

@Finnky, with the speed of spread this virus has, we won’t fight it for decades, at least not how we do today! It will either stopped by infecting 80% or by a vaccine. After that, herd immunity takes over (,which creates other problems). I agree that destroying the economy is not helpful and the precautions to “flatten the curve” should be what I have mentioned in this forum multiple times: – Wear a mask in indoor public settings. – If not feasible, keep 6 feet distance. – Ventilate indoor public settings properly. – Disinfect public surfaces. – Wash your hands… Read more »

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

@CF, You “agree that destroying the economy is not helpful”? Didn’t you write: “… trainers have joined the coronavirus “truthers” bandwagon to scare people into training. Their short-term profit motive is …” Please see infra.
Those two positions are incongruous. Can you please explain?

And yet China is at full manufacturing capacity, and working hard to replace us in the world.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Wild Bill, a short-term profit motive can easily destroy a company, an entire industry or even a country! Those “truther” trainers take absolutely zero precautions for themselves and for their students regarding the virus. Sooner or later, one of those training companies will become the “Typhoid Mary” of the gun community, spreading the virus among its trainers, students and their families. Why? Because short-term profit was more important to them than long-term profit! Who wants to train with a company, knowing that they give a shit about their or your health? I did not say that training companies should not… Read more »

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

@CF, Ok, now I got you. You are no MBA.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Wild Bill, you got that right! I have a doctorate degree!

Finnky
Finnky
1 year ago

@CF – When were you PHynally Done and in what topic? OK – no need to answer first part of that if it provides too much support for age discrimination… I stand by my time frame comment – but that was the only quible I had with your post. WHO has been saying they are not sure whether anitbodies convey immunity, though I’m sure it would provide at least partial immunity in form of reduced severity/mortality. Development of a vaccine is likely, but by no means assured – certainly time from is uncertain at this point. Given commnicability of this… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Finnky

, the proper term is permanently head damaged. LOL

As for the WHO’s comments, they always lag behind in what the actual research says. They are also a political organization. Their comment about immunity was based on the positive tests of recovered people in South Korea. However, South Korea says that these positive tests were false positives.

There is a lot of things we don’t know about this virus, so much is speculation, including herd immunity percentages. Rumsfeld’s taxonomy applies obviously!

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

@CF, As do I.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

@USA, As is often the case, the answer is for all the people to just go back to work and shut up about it.

Jeremy B.
Jeremy B.
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

65,000 people have died. In just over 2 months in the US. This isn’t about blue team vs red team politics.

UncleT
UncleT
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy B.

How do we know that? The govt admits the numbers are inaccurate. They say people who died may or may not even have the virus and if they do, may not have died from it. How can we cause this much tyranny and panic over this much inaccuracies and incompetence? This a dangerous in its own right. You have Americans turning in Americans and the so called good guys, police enforcing unconstitutional orders. Really tired of people defending the police when they do this crap.The thin blue line has turned Soviet red even before this virus. You are a tyrant… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  UncleT

@UncleT It seems to be a common argument to question the number of deaths in order to minimize the virus. This is NOT necessary, or are you saying that if the virus is dangerous, then the government actions are warranted? As for the counting of COVID-19 deaths, do you know how we count flu deaths? Here is a hint, we don’t count those accurately either, we estimate them! It is a common misconception that one even can count infectious disease deaths accurately. However, without testing every single death, we can’t, and we don’t do that even for the flu! Flu… Read more »

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
1 year ago

Foxtrot
Talk about Generalized and Incoherent you want us to believe the NEW YORK TIMES?
I say the National Enquirer would give you better info.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

, if the NYT would report that Kim Jong-un is dead, then Kim Jong-un must be alive, right? LOL

By the way, only thanks to the NYT we know the magnitude of the corruption inside the NRA. Conservative outlets didn’t want to touch that story!

The excess death numbers the NYT reports are real and the data is publicly available for you to verify that. You can put your political blinders on and ignore that. Ignorance is bliss!

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
1 year ago

Foxtrot
(Respectively) You dont know shit about it and neither do we. All we know is what we read or watch on tv so quit busting everybody’s balls like your the grand poopah of C 19 cause your not and your not in charge of the CDC or the WHO.. or are you? I’m not scared of it if you choose to be then that’s on you. Is it devastating yes it is. Are the numbers elevated I say yes they are.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

, you can certainly have your own opinions. However, personal attacks don’t validate them!

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
1 year ago

Foxtrot
Instead of repetitive banter about something we know nothing about. The NYT validates nothing as well.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

@CF, If you seek to bolster the credibility of the NYT, then you are wasting your time. What ever the NYT writes, the opposite is probably true.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Wild Bill, Shooting the messenger has been proven to be a really good argument in debates! LOL

Is Fox News good enough for you: https://www.foxnews.com/science/more-than-15000-excess-deaths-linked-to-coronavirus-in-us. This reporting is based on a peer-reviewed scientific study! The link to the study is in the Fox News article.

Finnky
Finnky
1 year ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

@SEMPAI – Reread the first sentence in @CF’s post. He is correct that the exact scale of impact of COVID should not be part of any argument. Well maybe fi we were talking 50% mortality of some such – but rate of COVID deaths is roughly the sane as that for heart attacks. We have not given government power to control everyone’s diet and exercise in order to fight heart attacks – so why do we do so for a virus? Yes a virus is communicable. Studies have shown that obesity is also communicable. Not at the same level, but… Read more »

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

@CF, You have said that questioning the number of deaths in order to minimize the virus, but do not explain why it is not necessary. Are you referring to some other argument that you consider more powerful?

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Wild Bill, You know that you could have asked this question at just one place in this thread, right? Why do people think they need to lie about the impact of this virus? The more powerful and actually sane argument is, which I posted in this thread multiple times as well, that the government has no right to take rights away from citizens, independent how dangerous this virus is!!! The conservatives and gun owners arguing that the virus is a nothing-burger and therefore the government actions are not warranted are simply just busy digging their own hole that they won’t… Read more »

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

@CF, I should not have had to ask the question. A skillful writer would not have denied his readers the answer. Holding back bits of information or not making the transitions are the marks of a poor writer.
As to your conclusions, why do you put it on gun owners rather than the politicians, who, clearly, have more to gain?

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Wild Bill, sorry but I am busy with refuting tons of BS posted on the Internet and can not always adhere to your high standards of writing. I expect politicians to lie! I don’t expect gun owners to buy into these lies hook, line and sinker! The gun community is full of coronavirus “truthers” that argue one easily disprovable conspiracy theory after another, which is what the discussions here clearly show. Here is an interesting thought for you: How many firearms trainers out there right now take this virus serious vs. are one of those coronavirus “truthers”? Taking it serious… Read more »

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

@CF, My standard of writing came from sixth grade English class. You had the class, too.
Failing to define your terms (e.g.”… coronavirus “truthers”…” ) is also poor writing.

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy B.

B
I’m thinking you may WORRY yourself to death

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy B.

, You can not look at our situation through only the medical lens. You have to look through the financial lens, international aggression lens, the political lens and the Civil Rights lens.

Dubi Loo
Dubi Loo
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy B.

, Oh Yes It Is!

Sisu
Sisu
1 year ago

This article is not up to the editorial standards of most AmmoLand pieces. Rob, there is a lot of corruption in NYS and NYC; the politicians do not reflect the majority of downstate or upstate residents. But when I look at most other states the only real difference is the size of the populations and economies. Separately, know that this “lifelong” NYer (who has traveled to work in many other states) can attest that the absolute worst NYers are the dregs that come here from other states after getting their MBAs and JDs, and other indoctrination degrees – by and… Read more »

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Sisu

, You should have erased the first sentence or told us why you come to that conclusion. Having said that, I did like the rest of what you wrote.

Sisu
Sisu
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Wild Bill. Perhaps somewhat of a non sequitur. … I read a highly personalized complaint, as if the entire country is not similarly suffering. Then blaming NYC residents because they want to “live shoulder to shoulder” is absurd. Most who live in cities are not doing it by choice – it’s where they were born, their jobs are there, … More to the point there’s a great deal of troubling happenings associated with the Covid-SARS-2 release, but while Cuomo & deBlasio are each a POS and have gamed the Fed Gov’t they didn’t establish the Medicare/caid reimbursement rates that incentivized… Read more »

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Sisu

, That is a hilarious play on words! It is your first sentence. How could it “follow”! Well, played, sir! I am stealing that!
Ok, seriously, now. Getting by the false premise “… Most who live in cities are not doing it by choice – it’s where they were born, their jobs are there…”, of course it is choice.
Morse’s rant is his opinion and I will defend unto death his Right to express it.
You can reject it, if you like, but a logical explanation will be greatly appreciated.
Ha. I’m still chuckling.

Sisu
Sisu
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Wild Bill. I am equally lost by your comments above. Regardless, it is the Editors’ decision as to whether to post an article; I was offering “reader feedback”. You don’t agree or understand my comment; the english language fails us all (both speaker/writer and listener/reader), all of the time. … I continue to attempt to improve. (Ftnt: I find most of your posts worth reading; I wouldn’t have responded if I thought otherwise.)

Deplorable Bill
Deplorable Bill
1 year ago

Most people have NOT realized what is actually happening. The virus itself and the political answers to the virus are an attempt to FORCE America into socialism. They are FORCING Americans to be dependent upon the government. Think about it. Have we not seen a rash of tyranny and treason that is masked as help from the government? Reagan was right; Government is not the answer to the problem, government IS the problem. There are a LOT of governors among other politicians, legislators, judges, enforcement people and their financiers who are, this minute, denying, delaying (or worse) our constitutional RIGHTS.… Read more »

Finnky
Finnky
1 year ago

@DB – For those of us who have scrimped and saved, trust the economic downturn to decimate stocks. Cash assets will drop in value even more dramatically – current explosion in deficit spending is going to cause inflation to make the Carter period in the 70’s look positively stable. Good news is that this will help social security. While salaries likely won’t keep up with inflation, they will go up compared to social security. Simultaneously Wu-flu is likely to reduce life expectancy following retirement, thus reducing the number of payees in the system. Maybe this will buy a few years… Read more »

moe mensale
moe mensale
1 year ago
Reply to  Finnky

Once again you open your big mouth to show Ammoland readers how truly stupid you are. There were actually 13 total trials held in Nuremberg. Almost 2,000 war criminals were tried, convicted or set free. As for Operation Paperclip, the Soviets were also involved in that and they forcibly recruited more German scientists and engineers than the US did. There’s also a big difference between being a war criminal and being a scientist even if you were a Nazi. Does Wernher von Braun sound familiar? He was an engineer and a member of the Nazi party. But he wasn’t a… Read more »

hippybiker
hippybiker
1 year ago
Reply to  moe mensale

Ever heard of Gerhard Galen or Walter Dornberger? Both we’re atrocious NAZI war criminals. Galen became a CIA agent and was in charge of Eastern Europe intelligence operations. Dornberger became the executive officer of Bell Textron. Even the first head of the UN name escapes me) was a transplanted NAZI war criminal. Von Braun was In charge of the notorious slave labor at the Peenemude Rocket labs. There were many more that were absorbed into this country! Also, another thing that came out of Nuremberg was the GCA of 1968. Courtesy of Senator Thomas J. Dodd Demon Rat From CN.… Read more »

Finnky
Finnky
1 year ago
Reply to  Finnky

@USA – That was my point, though I didn’t state it clearly. They punished the first few, with no effort to determine degree of culpability – then sort of got tired of the process and released majority of the rest. Worst punishments often went to the lowest level offenders while leaders and instigators got off relatively light.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Finnky

@Fin, Mean while China is back to full manufacturing capacity. Boycott China.

Deplorable Bill
Deplorable Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Finnky

Fin: I actually had Marie Antoinette — the French revolution — in mind when I wrote this. Strange that most of the trouble has come from demoncrapic states. Sooner or later, somebody is just going to vote them out of office. They can only push so far without retaliation.

Arm up, carry on.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Finnky

, If the SHTF, as you describe, then what makes you think that there will be any Social Security?

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago

, Only the democrat governors remain giving unconstitutional orders and backing those orders up with the fire power of their minions. Those democrats are showing us what they have planned for our future.

Finnky
Finnky
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@Jacob – Consider that “rats flee a sinking ship”. The worst thing get in those already hellish major population centers, the more people will flee to nicer, lower population areas. Often those fleeing do not recognize how their votes created the situation they fled. They then strive to turn their new home into their vision of what they left. When enough of them move into a new area – they gain political clout to recreate the hell-hole they’ve fled – screwing the original population of the no-longer pristine area. Help them not just out of compassion and morals, but in… Read more »

Skippy
Skippy
1 year ago

Never give up your guns!

badlands
badlands
1 year ago

Absolutely right. Any government, anywhere, derives it’s power from the number of people dependent on it; the more the better. It fears and despises a free, self-sufficient sovereign citizen who doesn’t need or want government running his or her life.

We’ve seen that demonstrated quite a bit here lately.

Knute
Knute
1 year ago
Reply to  badlands

And its sooo much fun to watch from outside. Nothing better than a giant trainwreck in slow motion that I’m not on. 🙂

Catatonic
Catatonic
1 year ago
Reply to  badlands

Not so hilarious for those of us who live in the fly-over country to which they’re trying to flee. We really, really don’t want them here. Unfortunately, most of our states are so large and our populations so low that we can’t effectively post armed guards on all of our borders to keep them out. We’ll just have to hope that our immune systems (strong from our healthy, outdoor lifestyles) will enable us to outlast them.