Let’s Talk About The Greenwood Mall

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Let’s Talk About The Greenwood Mall

United States/Greenwood Mall, Indiana – -(AmmoLand.com)- Second Amendment supporters have every right to trumpet the success of constitutional carry at the Greenwood Mall. An armed citizen acted as the proverbial Good Samaritan in stopping a horrific act. Since the would-be mass shooter is dead, we will never know if it was an act of madness or one borne from criminal intent.

That being said, let’s also have a serious talk. Eli Dicken was incredibly brave in acting as he did to take on a rifle-armed assailant with a pistol. He was also quite skilled. He also was lucky. We may never know what exact combination enabled Dicken to save the lives he did, but we ought to acknowledge it was a combination of all three.

But while constitutional carry was mostly successful in mitigating the harm the would-be mass shooter inflicted, Second Amendment supporters also need to be clear on one other point:

Things should never have gotten to the point where the prevention of a horrific mass shooting – and its aftermath – came down a Good Samaritan’s courage, skill, and luck.

We’ve fought to protect our rights – and it is a necessary fight. But we can’t just keep asserting the Second Amendment in the aftermath of mass shootings. At some point, we need to figure out how to prevent these events to the greatest extent possible in the most constitutionally sound manner possible.

Senators Ted Cruz (R-TX) and John Barrasso (R-WY) have a good start with the Safe Kids, Safe Schools, Safe Communities Act of 2022, introduced last month. While it funds further improvement to NICS (albeit those improvements probably would have prevented Sutherland Springs), it also provides more security and mental health professionals for schools to try and detect those whose metal health problems could lead to them committing s horrific act.

In some ways, the legislation doesn’t go far enough. Quite frankly, the establishment of a program similar to the one that armed pilots in the wake of 9/11 for teachers adopted by the state police in the 50 states is long overdue. So is actually enforcing some of the laws on the books, which would have prevented Parkland – the shooter there was reportedly caught with ammo on school grounds.

Anti-Second Amendment extremists will peddle their list of “solutions” to Americans: Gun bans, limits on carrying firearms in public, and they will also point to the Supreme Court’s recent rulings as obstacles and tell Americans the court must be packed to ensure “balance.”

If we don’t have solutions – if we’re not fighting for those solutions – then it will only be a matter of time before we lose every gain we have fought for, including the Heller and Bruen decisions. If Second Amendment supporters are to defeat anti-Second Amendment extremists via the ballot box and in the courtroom at the federal, state, and local levels, they need to make gun bans look unreasonable.


About Harold Hutchison

Writer Harold Hutchison has more than a dozen years of experience covering military affairs, international events, U.S. politics and Second Amendment issues. Harold was consulting senior editor at Soldier of Fortune magazine and is the author of the novel Strike Group Reagan. He has also written for the Daily Caller, National Review, Patriot Post, Strategypage.com, and other national websites.

Harold Hutchison

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james

Do we know the pistol and caliber Eli used? Conflicting info from news reports.

Rodoeo

I’ve heard G19-Gx, some model of glock 9mm.

Last edited 23 days ago by Rodoeo
HLB

The responder did every thing right and nothing wrong.

HLB

FPV02

“If we don’t have solutions – if we’re not fighting for those solutions – then it will only be a matter of time before we lose every gain we have fought for, including the Heller and Bruen decisions.” I really shouldn’t have to tell you this Harold, but the “solution” we bring to the table is called deterrence. Even a violent sociopath doesn’t want to die for nothing. If he is convinced of a reasonable chance of encountering armed victims, he will displace to a softer target. That is why, as Dr. John R. Lott has demonstrated, 94% of mass… Read more »

nrringlee

False premises equal false conclusions. Let me explain. Yes, we need to keep careful track of those prohibited and NICS is one way to do that. But the NICS is flooded with people who have fifty year old simple possession of marijuana charges and tax evasion felonies and yes, a former President, Willy Jeff who should be in there as a federal perjury award winner. When everything is a priority, nothing is a priority. I attribute that statement to the now deceased Colonel Wesley J. Fox, USMC (MH). The good Colonel knew how to set priorities. We need to learn… Read more »

Rodoeo

I’m convinced they use ‘any means necessary’ to get people on the NICS denied list… I think that’s the plan to disarm a large portion of the country.

Henry Bowman

You would be right!! Since 1968, the list of prohibited persons just keeps growing because Congress keeps federalizing crimes that are the proper bailiwick of the states, and making those crimes into felonies whereas they weren’t before. As new classes of people are prohibited from their 2A rights, fewer people are around to advocate for those Rights lawfully. It’s a very evil take on the pie-slice technique!!

100 Percent of the Power Banning Guns.png
loveaduck

Now they’re taking FFLs out of business for very minor mistakes. Loss of said folks is up over 500% since Biden came in, leading with his ignorance.

Russn8r

NICS is gunowner reg, a tool tyrants can use to turn the spigot off. Doesn’t stop crime, raises it by disarming good folk, creates fake criminals (Vet goes to buy gun; didn’t know he’s on a list for seeing a “counselor”; guy has RO he never knew about). Far less dangerous: Blind Identification Database System (BIDS) proposed by a gun writer with a former NRA Dir.

Halfway through Republic of Violence. Thorough, no gaps, very readable. Like today’s Dems: Projection, blame vics (abolitionists & freemen), paint oppressors (slavers, slavery apologists) as vics, censor, sponsor mob violence, 2-tier justice

Last edited 23 days ago by Russn8r
Henry Bowman

Glad you brought up BIDS. I’ve been supporting the repeal of NICS for a long time as a better way for anyone to verify that the gun you are selling isn’t going to a violent career criminal! We need to push for more tools that will increase our liberty.

Abolish NICS use BIDS Gun Check BGC System.png
MikeRoss

Constitutional carry wasn’t a factor, Eli Dicken has an Indiana lifetime concealed carry permit.

james

Yes plus recent permitless concealed carry is now the law.

Russn8r

Not in privately decreed “gun free” zones in places open to the public. Until those are banned, there are no Con Carry states.

Last edited 23 days ago by Russn8r
Wild Bill

This is where the Rights of property owners and the Rights of gun carriers conflict. It is difficult to render proper theoretic answer that maintains the integrity of “the Law.” We may have to settle for a practical answer.

Russn8r

Good to know. There are no Constitutional Carry states until “gun free” zones are banned, including privately-decreed no-carry zones in places open to the public.

Russn8r

Good grief. THIS is “Awaiting for approval”?

Good to know. There are no Constitutional Carry states until “gun free” zones are banned, including privately-decreed no-carry zones in places open to the public.

Last edited 23 days ago by Russn8r
loveaduck

Wrong. Even if the mall was posted, there was no law broken because of his concealed carry. Only if he is asked to leave and take the gun outside, and refuses, is he guilty of trespass.

Russn8r

Uh hun. Quote the statute.

Russn8r

Still waiting for you to back up your claim, loveaduck. Quote the statute.

Crickets Chirping.

The Crimson Pirate

Harold, the Parkland shooter had numerous encounters with law enforcement up to and including 2 with the FBI. He was let off repeatedly for racist political reasons. It was the policy of the Obama (in)Justice Compartment to withhold federal funds from departments that arrested too many black or hispanic kids. So the pressure to let him go, as he was hispanic, was strong. The other side of “enforce existing laws” I have talked about repeatedly. Here in PA in 2014 the state police began prosecuting all background check denials that were not appealed. Not one person so prosecuted has turned… Read more »

james

The ‘security man’ let the Parkland murderer into the building without question. Did not inspect the backpack,

sharky65

I’ve pretty much given up reading the comments associated with the articles in Ammoland Shooting. I don’t agree with everything Harold has to say but he presents some good ideas and raises some excellent questions. The main thing I hear out of too many of you guys is constant bitching. It’s rare when I read a thoughtful response. Most of the responses are blah blah blah, arrest these guys and send them to jail. yada yada yada, the NRA sucks, don’t donate… By the way you can dump on me but I won’t be reading it.

The Crimson Pirate

Not to dump on you at all, but this needs to be said. Harold is young and somewhat new to all of this. Some of us commenting have been in this fight for decades, maybe even longer than he has been alive. Many of us either previously felt as he does, or were talked into supporting his sort of thinking at some point. We have watched as his sort of thinking cost us rights time and again, and we followed the successes of brazen no compromise positions at the same time. The experimental cauldron of 50 states going 50 different… Read more »

Wild Bill

I think that picture of Harold is not current. I could be wrong.

Ope

You could be wrong but you’re not. That’s the same mug we’ve seen for at least the last 10 years.

JSNMGC

His age has nothing whatsoever to do with his politics. I meet with people every week who are much younger than Harold who have a better understanding of firearm rights and totalitarianism than Harold (as well as a large number of the elderly commentors on this site). Those young people are also up to speed on current legislation and know how to review bills. They are also politically active – they traveled to protest the enforcement of mask mandates, they traveled to show support for the people who held the pro firearm rights rally in Richmond, and they traveled to… Read more »

Considerthis

Harold sees a need for solutions, but has none. It’s really simple,Harold. When they say there are too many guns, we say they are wrong and have it backwards. Our position is that there are too many criminals and then challenge them to find the root causes of the real problem – too many criminals !

Knute Knute

Harold’s ‘solution’ is to ridicule anyone who acts heroically, while aggrandizing those who act as parasites, such as Wayne LaPierre, congress critters, and career burrocrats.
In my book, that makes Harold a career parasite also.

Rowboat

There is also a cultural gap with 13% of the population.

Rob J

One has to wonder if correspondents actually read what they write… “a random 22-year-old opening fire in an already chaotic scene, and only after multiple other people were dead or injured” Rafi Schwarts 7-18-202 Yeah Rafi “only after” because shooting someone without self defense provocation is murder… you know, like the actual murderer who was stopped. Random Twitter quotes in an article on Meaww by Deepak Kumar 7-18-2022 “What you have is two gunmen- one of whom obeyed the law for a little longer than the mass shooter. Note that the mass shooter was a “law abiding gun owner” till… Read more »

uncle dudley

Let’s get rid of gun free zones, honest people obey the law, criminals don’t.

3l120

Not all honest people do, as evidenced by the gent who killed the shooter. Do you carry in gun-free zones?

JSNMGC

You and your “brothers” used to enforce gun-free zones.

Boz

That’s why most (every?) state that has CCW has written in the code that if a person does have to use their weapon for self-defense in a gun-free zone / “prohibited” area, they can not be prosecuted for carrying in that zone/area. “Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6” rings true, once again.

JSNMGC

In many places if they are caught (by enforcers) carrying, their life will be ruined (or ended). I’m referring to just carrying – not the rare act of using the firearm for self-defense.

It’s a matter of risk analysis – who is more likely to ruin (or end) a person’s life, an enforcer or a violent criminal?

There is a reason almost everyone obeys this employer’s strict rules prohibiting firearms (even though that employer has had two mass shootings on their premises):

https://home.army.mil/hood/index.php/my-fort/visitor-information/firearms-registration

It’s the same reason many executives, nurses, students, etc. don’t carry when riding the L in Chicago.

Last edited 23 days ago by JSNMGC
Ope

Boz,I carry in prohibited places almost daily. (most the time Open too) In TEXAS if you are forced to kill an active shooter or are involved in any situation requiring lethal force, esp. when lives are saved, no charges will ever be filed. Only morons would prosecute an individual for saving lives. Gun free zones are where you should be at at heightened alert and awareness of surroundings. If things will go south it’s at GFZ’s.

JSNMGC

In TEXAS, if you have LEOSA creds and waddle around a rural county where you know the enforcers, you won’t get trespassed by a private property owner who is concerned about retaliation from law enforcement.

Last edited 23 days ago by JSNMGC
HLB

The only gun free zone I have not carried in in the last 12 years was jury duty in a court room. I do not go anywhere without my weapon. Am I honest or am I a criminal?

HLB

JSNMGC

You haven’t traveled on a commercial aircraft in 12 years? I’m not doubting you, just clarifying.

HLB

No aircraft. If I must do air travel it will be private.

HLB

Russn8r

Are an ex- or current cop with special carry privileges?

HLB

No special privileges. According to the 14th Amendment, special privileges are not necessary.

HLB

Russn8r

That’s a non-answer. You know what I mean.

HLB

You’ve got me there Governor. I don’t have a clue what you mean.

HLB

Trussman

I do, always very concealed, and thank GOD that he did too.

Russn8r

EVERY HH POS has a BIG “BUT” & a preemptive surrender.

I would’ve donated to Cruz again. Not if he pimps “Fix Nics”. Thx for letting me know so I can save my $ for one more deserving.

Last edited 23 days ago by Russn8r
Russn8r

nOpeTEX loves Harold Hutchison.

Wild Bill

Harold says, “…  But we can’t just keep asserting the Second Amendment in the aftermath of mass shootings.” That is one quarter correct in a in a backward way. We should be asserting the Law of Self Defense, which includes defense of others.

DDS

“C’mon, man!” — Brandon You slay me, Harold! An American citizen uses his creator endowed Right to Keep and Bear Arms, exactly as the Founders intended, and drops an active shooter in his tracks, thereby preventing an unknown number of deaths and injuries, and you’re upset because the Second Amendment wasn’t used properly? Did Shannon Watts coach you through writing this article? “I don’t know who needs to hear this but when a 22-year-old illegally brings a loaded gun into a mall and kills a mass shooter armed with an AR-15 after he already killed three people and wounded others… Read more »

Knute Knute

Do you suppose that maybe Harold IS Shannon Watts? The demanding Moms all look pretty butch.. and Harold’s mug shot that accompanies his every piece is pretty darned effeminate! Maybe… just maybe… Harold is Watts’ sock puppet? 🙂

Ope

Knute,that’s certainly within the realm of possibility.

Russn8r

“STRIKE GROUP REAGAN!”

“Say, that’s a nice beard!”

Last edited 23 days ago by Russn8r
Grigori

“Safe Kids, Safe Schools, Safe Communities Act of 2022” With a name like that, what could “possibly” go wrong? Sounds like another layer of unaccountable bureaucracy, piled on to other “great” ideas such as School Resource Officers, to get more and more kids into “the system” at an early age so that they might eventually be declared as “prohibited persons” regarding gun ownership. In school, I would have probably been deemed “weird” enough to qualify for admission to such a program. I owned three handguns and reloaded using my biological dad’s reloading equipment, powder, primers, and bullets. I had shitty… Read more »

Last edited 24 days ago by Grigori