Rob Pincus: SIG Stabilizing Braces NOT APPROVED for Shoulder fire by BATFE… For Real

ICE AR Pistol with Sig Sauer SBX Pistol Stabilizing Brace
ICE AR Pistol with Sig Sauer SBX Pistol Stabilizing Brace
Rob Pincus
Rob Pincus

USA –-(Ammoland.com)- According to the latest letter from the BATFE, putting a Sig Brace on an AR Pistol with the intention of using it a stock is illegal.

Until further notice, pending a change in this ruling (and/or my understanding of it), neither I, nor I.C.E. Training Company in general, will be advising on the use of the Sig Brace as a stock on an AR Pistol (or any other “short barreled” firearm) by our students.

This will include a restriction on their inappropriate use in carbine classes.

This is unfortunate, as the uses of the Sig Brace in that manner provided an inexpensive and simple way for people to own, and train with, a compact & powerful personal defense tool.

This position is congruent with my original position on the matter, as described in this video, recorded about a year ago, for Personal Defense Network. That position was taken based on the ambiguity of the way not only Federal Law is written, but also the unclear position of the BATFE.

It is unfortunate that their unclear communications and waffling on the issue over the last year have created a large amount of disruption in the firearms community. Their confusing (and now, contradictory) messages created a huge swell of interest in the Sig Brace and training it’s use as a stock for AR Pistols (and other compact & powerful firearms) as defensive tools in homes, workplaces and around vehicles.

Personally, I hope to see this change in the future.

The Text of the most recent, and very clear, opinion is below:

OPEN LETTER ON THE REDESIGN OF “STABILIZING BRACES”

The Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD), Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has received inquiries from the public concerning the proper use of devices recently marketed as “stabilizing braces.” These devices are described as “a shooter’s aid that is designed to improve the single-handed shooting performance of buffer tube equipped pistols.” The device claims to enhance accuracy and reduce felt recoil when using an AR-style pistol.

These items are intended to improve accuracy by using the operator’s forearm to provide stable support for the AR-type pistol. ATF has previously determined that attaching the brace to a firearm does not alter the classification of the firearm or subject the firearm to National Firearms Act (NFA) control. However, this classification is based upon the use of the device as designed. When the device is redesigned for use as a shoulder stock on a handgun with a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length, the firearm is properly classified as a firearm under the NFA.

Read the entire letter here: Open Letter from ATF On The Redesign Of ‘Stabilizing Braces’ 

 

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Randy
Randy
5 years ago

Shock Wave makes braces too, not just Sig. They are solid polymer instead of rubber, and have a set screw to lock them in place like a stock. But they are still just a brace.

Jim
Jim
6 years ago

So if I held it against my nuts and shot it, other then some discomfort, would that constitute a redesign of the firearm and cause me to be a nut bustin felon???

Derek s
Derek s
6 years ago

Boy am I GLAD the BATF came up with this ruling. Imagine if criminals got a hold of an AR pistol with this stabilizing brace. They too would be restricted from firing from the shoulder. THANKS BATF, once again, you keep us all safe from the “bad guys” with your sensible rules and restrictions……. :/

dullh
dullh
6 years ago

You people want something for nothing! If you want a SBR, register your lower on an ATF Form 1, pay the one-time tax and get yourself a REAL short barrel rifle legally! Do it right or don’t do it at all…stop screwing around with dumb “braces” and join the big boys…and while you’re at it buy a good suppressor for your shorty…

norman
norman
6 years ago
Reply to  dullh

useful idiot

John Garza
John Garza
6 years ago

So as it stands after this last BATF decision, if you are seen putting this to your shoulder and shooting it and do not have a tax stamp you are committing a felony? If you use it as it is designed then you are ok? If and more than likely when they say these are considered to be the same as a rifle stock and can no longer be mounted on the pistols then at that time anyone caught in possession with one of these on a pistol with out a tax stamp will be committing a felony? If that… Read more »

MontieR
MontieR
6 years ago

The entirety of the BATF is a sad excuse for ignoring the constitution.

mikrat
mikrat
6 years ago
Reply to  MontieR

Then its time everyone start ignoring the BATFags – they are an out of control agency that really has no Jurisdiction outside of federal lands and the territories.

Fuk’em.

The Rifleman
The Rifleman
6 years ago

Bob, as sad and hurtful as this is for me to have to realize and accept.(quote) “Bottom line: the police – whether federal or local – are not your friends. They are officers of the court. Their mission is to build a case against you…period.” (end quote) Truer words have never been spoken! Although there may be a few exceptions, albeit very rare, I have to agree that for the most part I believe you are absolutely correct.

Jeffie
Jeffie
6 years ago

There are shooting ranges in California which will not allow you to shoot AR pistols as rifles in a shoulder braced position. The intent of the ATF is let the public know if we see you using your pistol as a rifle we can prosecute you. If you are in a life threatening situation and you use your pistol as a rifle who carew what the ATF thinks. Waiting for the first self defense prosecution in California for the self defense use of an AR pistol as a rifle…

11Bravo30
11Bravo30
6 years ago

A.T.F. = Another Totalitarian Fascist. They need to be disbanded permanently.

COLDEADHANDS
COLDEADHANDS
6 years ago
Reply to  11Bravo30

AMEN BROTHER! Never in my life have I heard of such B.S. government agency! Ok your a criminal your going to commit mass mayhem all over town. Then you look at your rifle and remember…. “DANG IT! I done turned my AR-15 into a SBR! Benny done it fur me, at his state of the art Machine Shop(Garage on Benny’s back 10) In the Hills of COMMUNIST CALIFORNIA) Holy SMOKES! Benny put that there Ummmm…..funny thin piece of sheet metal Oh oh what’s it called? “Lightening Link” Makes “Ol’ Shirley here run Full-Auto!!! OMG! MY silencer oh shootski’s well I… Read more »

COLDEADHANDS
COLDEADHANDS
6 years ago
Reply to  11Bravo30

AMEN BROTHER! Never in my life have I heard of such B.S. government agency! Ok you’re a criminal you’re going to commit mass mayhem all over town. Then you look at your rifle and remember….”DANG IT! I done turned my AR-15 into a SBR! Benny done it fur me, at his state of the art Machine Shop(Garage on Benny’s back 10) In the Hills of COMMUNIST CALIFORNIA) Holy SMOKES! Benny put that there Ummmm…..funny thin piece of sheet metal Oh what’s it called? “Lightening Link” Makes “Ol” Shirley here run Full-Auto!!! OMG! MY silencer oh shootski’s well I guess this… Read more »

Bob
Bob
6 years ago

Who cares what the BATF wants. Bottom line: the police – whether federal or local – are not your friends. They are officers of the court. Their mission is to build a case against you…period.

Ol' Vet
Ol' Vet
6 years ago

Who really care what BATF wants or does? If you want your pistol to have a brace, knock yourself out. There are all sorts of ways to make a pistol into a short barreled rifle…… so what’s the big deal? Moronic bull all the time from these guys anyway. Do what you want.

And to the guy that is afraid of his name….you must really care for the BS and the BATF. Get a life.

Larry
Larry
6 years ago

Everybody should have seen this coming. If you spent money on this, you’re a fool and should have spent a little more for an SBR

Nick
Nick
6 years ago
Reply to  Larry

What if yo ulive in a state that doesn’t allow sbrs?

Gregry Romeu
Gregry Romeu
6 years ago
Reply to  Nick

“The ability of Governments to overpower and destroy those that are governed is directly proportionate to the amount of effort the governed put into maintaining their government.” – Gregory Romeu

In other words, you need to turn off your football games or Honey Boo Boo, Duck Dynasty or whatever distraction you are using as an excuse for life and get off your butt and CHANGE THE LAW TO ELICIT YOUR FREEDOM(S)!

Eric
Eric
6 years ago
Reply to  Nick

1 You change the law btw add suppressors to allowable , especially for hunting, 2 Become a manufacturer of DD’s and/or SBR’s 3 Move 4 Do something illegal and make it 5 Use a brace in the inappropriate manner and claim the instructions are confusing. 6 After using #5 sue the manufacturer of the brace claiming damages that it’s their fault 7 I would only rely on the first 3 as sound , logical advice . 8 but seriously why is your local police enforcing Fed/ IRS code from which ATF was born , that is what BATFE is supposed… Read more »

anonymous
anonymous
6 years ago

Anyone with a brain knew that using an arm brace as a shoulder stock was not using the device as intended and was in fact a mockery of the SBR restrictions. They should never have allowed the brace to come out. The maker of the brace was telling youtubers and various forearms that it was not a shoulder stock and shouldn’t be used that way because the ones doing that were going to potential to get the device made illegal. Much like a 37mm flare adapter you put adapters to use shotgun shells or make 37mm ammo that are antipersonal… Read more »

Dr. Strangelove
Dr. Strangelove
6 years ago

I translate this as the BATF saying, “If you have one of these and we want to arrest you, this will be our excuse.”

Ryan
Ryan
6 years ago

ATF does it again. What utter jerkoff clowns this agency is.

anonymous
anonymous
6 years ago
Reply to  Ryan

No the utter jerkoffs that were using a arm brace that you fit your arm through meant for people with one arm to use as a shoulder stock. These people were told that using it as a shoulder stock was potentially going to make the brace illegal to use.

Phil
Phil
6 years ago

Had no idea what this was about until I seen a photo of it strapped to a human arm, yes, I looked for it.
what about an adapter brace on AR rifle?
That’s almost what it looks like.

anonymous
anonymous
6 years ago
Reply to  Phil

A brace on a rifle still means its a rifle. This is a brace used on a pistol that people were using as a rifle stock. Hence they were turning a pistol into an unauthorized SBR.

LogicMan
LogicMan
6 years ago

Not a lawyer but I am 112% sure that every definition of redesign or remanufactured includes making a physical change to a product. This letter doesn’t fly.

anonymous
anonymous
6 years ago
Reply to  LogicMan

Actually it can indeed mean using it in ways that the product was not meant for. Hence an arm brace being used as a stock. I could tell from the design of it that the ATF should never have let it be approved for sale since it could function as a shoulder stock and that people who wanted to get around SBR restrictions were going to do so.