Judicial Watch Sue ATF for Records of Obama’s AR-15 Ammo Ban Attempt

.223 M855 Green Tip Ammuntion
.223 M855 Green Tip Ammunition

Washington, DC-(Ammoland.com)- Judicial Watch announced today that it filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit against the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), a component of the Department of Justice, for 1,900 pages of records about a proposed reclassification that would effectively ban certain types of AR-15 ammunition as armor-piercing (Judicial Watch v. U.S. Department of Justice (No. 1:18-cv-02218)).

Judicial Watch filed the lawsuit after the agency failed to respond to a May 14, 2018, FOIA request for the 1,900 documents about the Obama administration’s AR-15 ammo ban efforts. The documents include ATF talking points about the “Armor Piercing Ammunition Notice of Proposed Rulemaking” and other records discussing ammunition classification.

The lawsuit is the latest development in Judicial Watch’s more than three-year effort to obtain documents from the ATF. Judicial Watch discovered the document cache in separate litigation on the ammo ban issue.

In March 2015, more than 200 members of Congress wrote to former ATF Director B. Todd Jones to express their “serious concern” that the proposal to reclassify the ammunition types as armor-piercing may violate the Second Amendment by restricting ammunition that had been primarily used for “sporting purposes.” The ATF’s move “does not comport with the letter or spirit of the law and will interfere with Second Amendment rights by disrupting the market for ammunition that law-abiding Americans use for sporting and other legitimate purposes,” the letter said. The ATF subsequently halted its efforts.

The precise statutory definition of armor-piercing ammunition can be found in 18 U.S.C. §921(a)(17).

“Simply put, the ATF refuses to comply with federal open records law,” Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said. “The ATF has withheld records for over three years concerning the Obama administration’s shady attempt to institute gun control by restricting ammunition instead of guns.”


About Judicial WatchJudicial Watch

Judicial Watch, Inc., a conservative, non-partisan educational foundation, promotes transparency, accountability and integrity in government, politics and the law. Through its educational endeavors, Judicial Watch advocates high standards of ethics and morality in our nation’s public life and seeks to ensure that political and judicial officials do not abuse the powers entrusted to them by the American people. Judicial Watch fulfills its educational mission through litigation, investigations, and public outreach.

For more information, visit: www.JudicialWatch.org.

  • 82 thoughts on “Judicial Watch Sue ATF for Records of Obama’s AR-15 Ammo Ban Attempt

    1. frank speak:

      Did Trump actually mouth the words you attribute to him? If so, when and where, as it comes as something of a surprise to me, questions as to Trump’s state of mind aide, or are those words something he supposedly said? RSVP.

      1. Do a simple youtube search. Trump said it in a meeting with lawmakers after one of the major mass shootings. He is better than Hillary but he is no friend of the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, or 14th amendments. He is far too authoritarian to acknowledge the restrictions the Constitution puts on federal government power and authority.

        Just look at his actions on bump-fire stocks to see a glaring example of his disdain for the limits set by the Constitution.

    2. As a Life Member of the NRA, going back to 1975 or thereabouts, currently living in Pennsylvania, I too wonder as to the great crashing nothing heard from the NRA, regarding the recently enacted legislative monstrosity, HB 2060, prior to it’s enactment. Their explaination, if any is offered, might make reading of an interesting sort.

    3. On the noncompliance of the ATF, aka BATFE with valid for what one would take to be public documents, a contempt of congress against the agency and it’t top level management/leadership would appear to be the all to obvious ” next step”, a step that should long since have been taken by Congress. Seemingly, such citation is not in evidence, leading to the following question, WHY??

    4. Home invasion gangs who force open front doors with police type entry tools and come in all at once are now also using boat armor. We need real armor piecing bullets.

    5. What might those wonderful folks at ATF, people who brought us Fast and Furious, among other administrative/ ureaucratic screw-ups, possibly have to hide that necessitates a law suit to uncover. After all, the ATF is a government agency, or are they in business, of some sort, for themselves?

    6. Trump has made two great choices for SCOTUS , with a little luck and some Divine Intervention he will get at least one more . Wouldn’t the fourth be great !

      1. @OV, I sent Granny Ginzberg a case of Jack Daniels, with the note “Drink up, Granny! At this point, what difference does it make?”
        Best regards to Sammy.

        1. @WB…You would be completely innocent of knowing if it had been spiked with hemlock or arsenic to go with her old lace I’m sure !

          1. @ Oldvet I read yesterday that granny is 89 years old. Unbelievable she is still making decisions in the highest court in the land, when she can stay awake. She will be there until she quits breathing and is cold and stiff, then they will hold her hand up for a vote.

    7. Good deal for the gangsters and cartels. School shooters and mass murders prob dont even know about or care if they got green tips. But now, They can get you and your family with green tips thru the car doors and walls if they allow them again. No one sports with those old rounds.. Hey Im down to get my Green Tips tho, but dont get mad when one of these crazy bullied kids goes nuts and your family member gets hit with one… we dont need these for sporting, but Ill collect a case for when Trump finishes tearing the Government apart and revolt begins. Ill prob need it then, cuz Trump supporters are some crazed people with a lot of guns theyll prob shoot themselves with on accident…lol Im not even reading replies, so save your freedom of speech….hahaha

      1. Do you understand that even soft lead .22 lr ammunition will penetrate a car door and the person hiding behind it? Only in the movies do people get safe cover by hiding behind a car door.

        If you had even a basic education on the subject you would not have made your comment and would not look so foolish now. You would also know that “sporting purposes” has nothing at all to do with the 2nd amendment an in fact the Supreme Court of the United States has held on more than one occasion that the 2nd amendment specifically protects the right to own arms suitable for militia use.

        Please, take a little time to actually research a subject before spouting off about it.

    8. Again make gun laws for criminals so tough that it won’t be worth it and ban the release of the name of any mass shooters instead call each one Mr dumb ass. That will go along way toward fixing the gun issue.
      Till then we lawful gun owners will be used as an election by both sides for votes and that just sucks.

      1. @Blitz, The first will not work because criminals don’t care (e.g. murder statutes), and your second idea is not Constitutional. I do, however, admire your enthusiasm.

      2. Again the second amendment shall not be infringed, do you understand what that mean? If the criminals you speak are so dangerous that they can not own a gun they shouldn’t be trusted or allowed to handle a car a knife or anything else in society that can kill people dumbass.

        1. Brandon, criminals are not trusted with or without weapons. As such, violent felons are not legally allowed to obtain, possess, nor use firearms, yet we often read about those types using firearms in the commission of crimes. If laws can’t stop them from committing crimes, laws certainly, as news stories prove, will not prevent them from obtaining whatever objects they want to use to commit crimes. Questions surrounding this concept are frequently discussed in comments to stories on this site, such as why are we releasing back into society those proven to be predators on society?

    9. We are still suffering from the effects of the obama and clinton crime family. Both need to be in prison so President Trump can get the country back on track. Along with those two families holder, schumer, pelosi, feinstein and many others need to be jailed. I can remember when the politicians worked out their difference but now it is not just the liberals that are anti American it includes the democrats. Democrats = anti Americans. Maybe that is why at least 75 democrat members of congress are members of the “Democrat Socialists of America” an offshoot of the “Communist Party of America”. Wake up America get rid of these A-Holes.

      1. Why did trump quietly sign the omnibus bill? Why did trumo quietly sighn the nafta trade deal? Whyvare you so ignorant? Trump is a puppet to be controlled by the Federal Reserve. Trump i a liar an enemy to the very people that vites him in.

        1. @ Brandon your belly has to full of the kool aid or you are just trying to start an argument. Maybe you are a member of ANTIFA.

            1. @ Wild Bill that brought a big chuckle. This article sure brought out the anti-freedom commenters. They are ganging up on us! (ha)

          1. Calm down i actually did not even write the bottom part of that one screwed up comment, but its true that trump signed the o.m.n.i.b.u.s. bill that takes away gun rights.

    10. Sunlight is the greatest of all disinfectants. Bringing the bright light to dark and secret works of the Obama Administration is a nightmare for New Left Progressives. The “Obama Legacy” is rusting by the day. Judicial Watch should not have to sue under FIOA to get these records. The Trump Administration needs to go on a tear to declassify and make public EVERYTHING the Obama Regime did to attack the individual rights of Americans. All of it. Now.

      1. A good place for the current administration to begin would be to read such refusals to release information demanded under FOIA, and FIRE the miscreants who illegally refuse. They are part of the coverup.

        How’s about we start with records requests invoving Bengahzi, Fast and Furious, this ammo ban, the Brian Terry murder, Few topics like those….. find the dirtbags that refused to release relevant records when asked persuant to law, then fire them. NO ONE should have to bring a case into a court to get access to those records.

    11. I love reading trumpturd comments. They’re always good for a laugh. The low IQ lack of grammar and spelling is always a hoot.

      1. And your comments about President Trump and by the way all you people on the left need to start learning how to say President Trump instead of just Trump. You people need to come to terms that this country is not going to put up with you leftist snowflake little pussies anymore. You want to start a fight with the the people on the right and we’re not just white men wear black red white purple green and any other color under the rainbow but we’re not a bunch of pussies. We are armed to the teeth and you people that belong to antifa or just a little speed bump in the road as we’re driving along making our country great again

      2. You useful idiots used to say your guy “deserves respect because of the office.” Now you use terms like “Trumptard” showing contempt for people who are expressing their opinion. I am assuming, of course, that you are a Hillarytard, and are still angry that your pollsters and media so badly misled you, just like the previous administration did, that is him, his attorney general, and Secy. of State.

        I think you are probably mad at them, and taking it out on those of us who saw through the deceit before you did. So sad, little basement dweller.

    12. This unfortunate issue all started long before the idea of TRUMP .TRUMP THIS AMD TRUMP THAT you people are [email protected]&[email protected] nuts all you want is a way to make yourselves feel better and justified that you actually have a way to blame the problem on something tangible.instead of raising your children on good morals and the knowledge of right from wrong,and the god given right to defend your family and yourself the next time that your idiot child decides he or she wants to go shoot something or someone because they want to have a temper tantrum about something that they don’t like in your life. DONT BLAME TRUMP. Blame yourself for being a crapy parent and you stand yourself in front of the barrel just you don’t produce anymore any more idiots of society,and the rest of us real parents can live in peace ✌.

    13. Just a reminder to curb the attacks on our second amendment . Must get to the vote! Don’t rely on the next guy, get out there!

    14. How about they sue to find out “Where all the 22 LR Ammo went” ?
      There never was a good answer to that question, and when President Trump comes on board all of a sudden it is everywhere!
      Hmmm

      1. People horded the ammo because they were worried about Obama taking it all away. That created a serious shortage. Do you really think Obama gave a crap about 22ammo. 22ammo was cheep to hord, so blame the conspiracy nuts/preppers. And by the way I’m a huge Trump Supporter. I bought 22ammo from a friend he had 100,000 rds, that he told me about.
        Thanks

    15. Obama banned greentip ammo and Trump banned bump stocks they are both scumbags . Wake up people before both parties of criminals wipe out our second amendment !

      1. Rob, the bump stock decision was dumped out of Congress into BATFE’s lap.BATFE is going through the rule making procedure, currently and has not made a rule. Trump could not ban anything on his own.

      2. Bump stocks have not been banned by federal laws. Some states have enacted bans on “bump stocks”, but that is irrespective of any opinion of Trump’s or any other federal politician or agency.

      3. trump’s casual comment “seize the guns first…worry about due process later” has caused the widespread adoption of red-flag laws laws…including that god-awful one just rammed through in PA….where was the NRA?

    16. Really? Your the one that’s slow. Maybe your not paying attention to what’s going on in the country.
      Obama will go down as the worst potus in history.

      1. Ammo went to a retired air force base up on the northeast Canadian border, it was found in the summer of 2017.
        Bumpstocks now banned in NAZI CONNECTICUT.
        O’muslim should be eliminated with Soros. They’re still working against our free country.

        1. You’re = you are !! Look it up genius. Tell me what exactly is a trumpturd ? A presidential bowel movement , I bet you are floating in the toilet , right beside it 🙂

    17. We must Unite and protect our Constitution. If our politicians do not protect our Constitution we must remove them from office. We the people must take control back. We are a republic not a democracy. The Constitution protects the individual. God bless.

    18. shooting is a past time i have been trying to teach my children cause its what i know .what happens if thats gone ?

    19. Mr Richter is correct, Obama started the major division of our country with the likes of Sorrals and the Hollywood elite scum, we good Americans need to CONTINUE to go to the polls and not sit on our a##@# to allow the sickos to continue to grow and destroy this great nation

    20. When is Judicial Watch going to challenge the 7n6 5.45×39 ban that was branded armor piercing as well despite the fact it does not meet the legal definition as armor piercing just as M855 green tip. Any rifle at close range, at close distance can pierce some levels or armor. It is simple physics that a spitball with enough velocity can penetrate armor. 7n6 in the same fashion was misrepresented as armor piercing with the goal of a defacto gun ban through ammo shortage. Not as many people shoot that caliber so it went relatively unchallenged which set a precedence. Bring back 7n6 and reclaim lost ground! Do give the gun grabbers any quarter!

      1. This is what I was thinking while I was reading the article. I own a Bulgarian 74 and would love to be able to get a steady stream of cheap 7n6 like back in the day.

      2. Agreed. The 7n6 5.45×39 ammo ban was BATFE’s “camel nose under the tent” and the basis for their trying to ban the .223 green tip. Luckily they were shut down on the .223, but the ban on 5.45×39 needs to be eliminated.

      3. John, not only rifle rounds, but some pistols rounds, too, which have not yet been subject to a ban, such as the FN 5.7×28 round.

    21. Those Green Tips that were on the chopping block were never once used against Law Enforcement.Top Law Enforcement Agencies themselves admitted that.It was just the beginning of the disarmament of our weapons by Obama.

    22. That’s why we have to take care of our family’s .and our freedom.look at what other countries.are trying to do start wars .we just won’t What our forefathers left behind.

    23. Obuma was the USA worse president ever put in power by the likes of George sorris ,that anti American POS no matter how much money he has he’s white trash through and through attempting to bring the USA down to a third world country hey sorris why not try to. Bring outher counties up to our standard of living instead you rat bastard!!

        1. Really? Soon to be two justices that will actually use the Constitution (and intent of the founding fathers) as the basis of their decisions? I could care less about the trade agreements or status of our economy, doing something (twice) that will uphold at least our 2a rights and hopefully stop the ever faster slide at the stste level to abridge freedom, is going to be a legacy, no matter how orange the skin or frequent the inane tweet. Although I have to say that exposing the leftist institutions of media and higher education is a pretty strong second place. Those clowns cant help themselves to get him a second turn, even as they shoot themselves in “protest”.

          You have to be doing something right if the mere thought of your existence makes leftists scream and cry. Still.

        2. Bob, your the one who is slow. Lowest unemployment in 45 years for Black and Hispanic Americans, jobs that your boy Obummer said that are gone from America are back, $2,000 tax cut per year back in my blue collar middle class wallet,etc…….

          Wake up. There are millions of former Democrats walking away and joining conservative ideas. The ” Walk Away” movement is real bud. The Demonrats have turned their back on American values. Wake up before they come after you or someone you care about. Demonrats are Socialists now.

          1. Agreed Larry, This President sticks to his guns.The Libtards have been trying to drag him down for the past 2 tears and it’s only made him stronger.He’ll our next Supreme Court Justice is gonna be just like him.Take no Shit.Screw the a Left Wingers.

            1. Trump has made two great choices for SCOTUS , with a little and some Divine Intervention he will get at least one more . Wouldn’t the fourth be great !

          2. At one time our founding fathers that came up with the idea of a constitutional republic were thought of as that dirty word “liberal” ….liberal is not the problem. Liberal means i fight for the rights of the people whose rights are not as of yet recoginized by this great country…. I am liberal and pround but trust me fellow citizen it is not my type of liberal trying to take yer guns. I want to give everyone access to the tools for success instead of deny them so my small niche community can flourish ….and the best equalizer through and through time tested is a fire arm it dont care how much money education or emotional baggage you carry around from a obviously disfunctiinal childhood

        3. Bob the only reason you think he is the worst president is because he is doing what he said he would do. Make America Great Again. Your libtard ways are coming to an end. Get over yourself. Go find a corner and melt you snowflake.

        4. Bob I know a Socialist Paradise you’d be very happy in. None of the subjects there are “allowed” to have any guns. You’ll be completely safe from other subjects. It’s called Venezuela. Let us know if you need any help packing your stuff.

        5. try getting the taquiyya-organ-izer back in the former white mosque, or re-running h. r. c**t-on again, a**hole. then you could have cair, hamas, muslim brotherhood appointees back in the commie-cabinet, continuing their fundamental destruction of america.

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