Self-Defense Insurance vs Legal Protection Plans for Gun Owners ~ VIDEOS

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Attorney, Ryan Cleckner, gives us an overview of self-defense insurance with recommendations & explains how they are actually essential legal protection plans for concealed carry holders & lawful gun owners. Editor's Note: All screen-grabs with service prices reflect general prices as of the date of publishing and are subject to program changes.

Smoking Gun Barrel Glock iStock-apastron-179258263
Legal Protection Plans for Gun Owners, aka Self-Defense Insurance, iStock-apastron

U.S.A. -(AmmoLand.com)- Gun owners who lawfully carry a concealed firearm do so as a means of self-defense or the defense of others. If this is you, hopefully, you’ve put plenty of thought (and practice) into what you are going to do if you ever need to use your firearm. After all, using your firearm lawfully in a self-defense scenario will truly be a matter of life and death.

However, all too often, concealed carriers focus on the moment of the potential gunfight and don’t spend enough time thinking about how to avoid the fight in the first place nor what they are going to do after a defensive gun use.

Some things to consider are improving your situational awareness and avoiding stupid people doing stupid things in stupid places. Also, you should consider your ability to keep yourself and loved-ones alive if you are wounded in a fight (likely). Lastly, what about days and months after the defensive gun use – are you prepared for that?
Even if you feel that you are completely justified in your defensive gun use, you can still face both criminal and civil penalties. You can be charged with a crime (or crimes), found innocent of all charges, and easily be out a few hundred thousand dollars for your legal expenses proving your innocence. Additionally, you can be sued by individuals (the person you shot and/or their family members). Defending each of these lawsuits will also incur legal expenses and you may even have to pay damages if you lose.

If you’re someone who carries a concealed firearm for defense and doesn’t have an extra few hundred thousand dollars in cash lying around just in case you need to use your firearm, you might be a good candidate for one of the many concealed carry insurance offerings.

Legal Protection Services vs Real Self-Defense Insurance

To be clear, the services provided by these companies isn’t “insurance” in the common sense of the term. This is not an insignificant nuance.
Instead of being run like standard insurance, these types of plans are often “legal protection services.” This difference is due to available money coming from a general fund instead of being underwritten by an insurance company. This difference allows “concealed carry insurance” or “self-defense insurance” companies to operate in some states where actual insurance is banned.

Each of the major players in this self-defense insurance game are:

  • USCCA
  • Second Call Defense
  • CCW Safe
  • US Law Shield
  • The Armed Citizens Defense Network

Each of these services offers different levels of protection, in different ways, and for different pricing.

Although I can give you some pointers about what to look for, I am unable to pick the right one for you. You, and only you, can decide if self-defense insurance is right for you and, if it is, which company provides the best value for your particular situation.

Should you subscribe to more than one self-defense insurance plan? (Layers of Protection)

I have heard people ask whether they should subscribe to more than one gun owner's legal protection plan in an attempt to get more coverage or, at least, have one plan to cover gaps in another.

I do not think that this is a good idea.

First, you’ll be paying double for a lot of overlap. Second, you risk getting into a situation where one company might refuse to pay and insist on the other company paying (imagine having two car insurance companies for the same car). I advise people to strongly consider choosing a company that offers money upfront, allows you to pick your own attorney, and offers a daily allowance during a trial to cover for lost wages.

We’re going to explore some of the basics of each plan…

Overview of Gun Owner Legal Protection Plans


USCCA : United States Concealed Carry Association

USCCA United States Concealed Carry Association Insurance
USCCA United States Concealed Carry Association

The United States Concealed Carry Association (USCCA) is currently the big dog in this space. With over 300,000 members, having a self-defense insurance provider this size comes with a lot of benefits.

The USCCA offers MANY resources to include online training, publications, and more. They also meet my big three requirements above. The USCCA is a good choice for most people – especially those that like the extra gun owner resources and firearms training. The downside to USCCA is that there is a limit on the amount of money they’ll cover for your criminal or civil defense.

  • Monthly Cost: $22-47 (depending on the plan)
  • Criminal Defense Maximum Coverage: $250k
  • Civil Defense Maximum Coverage: $2 million

Preview USCCA Plans Here


CCW Safe

CCW Safe Gun Owner Legal Protection Plans
CCW Safe Gun Owner Legal Protection Plans

CCW Safe is another great option that focuses on maximizing legal coverage without extra training and community resources. They have truly amazing legal support and offer unlimited coverage for criminal and civil defense.

If you’re looking for the highest coverage amounts and best legal experience (and don’t care much for the extra resources), CCW Safe might be best for you.

  • Monthly Cost: $16-42 (depending on the plan)
  • Criminal Defense Maximum Coverage: unlimited
  • Civil Defense Maximum Coverage: unlimited

Preview CCW Safe Plans Here


Second Call Defense

Second Call Defense Self-Defense Insurance
Second Call Defense

Second Call Defense is also a strong contender that meets all of my big three requirements. I know a few people who are members and they are very happy with the service.

They also come in at the lowest price (while offering my basic recommendations) but that comes with the lowest limits on defense coverage.

  • Monthly Cost: $10-35 (depending on the plan)
  • Criminal Defense Maximum Coverage: $100k
  • Civil Defense Maximum Coverage: $1.25 million

Preview Second Call Defense Plans Here


NRA Carry Guard Self-Defense Insurance

NRA’s Carry Guard no longer exists or sells self-defense insurance. I’ve included it here only because there was so much marketing for the product that many people still look for it and wonder if it is the right self-defense coverage for them.

My recommended options are the three listed above.

  • Monthly Cost: n/a
  • Criminal Defense Maximum Coverage: n/a
  • Civil Defense Maximum Coverage: n/a

Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network

Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network Concealed Carry Insurance 2
Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network Concealed Carry Insurance 2

The ACLDN offers a low rate and unlimited coverage which makes them a viable option for many people. If the extra training resources or a daily per diem aren’t what you’re looking for, then ACLDN might be a good option for you (especially considering their coverage levels and cost).

  • Monthly Cost: $12
  • Criminal Defense Maximum Coverage: unlimited
  • Civil Defense Maximum Coverage: unlimited

Preview Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network Plans Here


US Law Shield

US Law Shield Legal Defense Protection
US Law Shield Legal Defense Protection

US Law Shield has a low cost and unlimited coverage amounts but they are the only service I recommend people to steer clear from because they won’t let you pick your own attorney. I think it is important that you have a say in who defends your freedom and, for me, spending unlimited money on an attorney I may not like nor trust is a bad idea.

  • Monthly Cost: $11
  • Criminal Defense Maximum Coverage: unlimited
  • Civil Defense Maximum Coverage: unlimited

Preview US Law Shield Plans Here


Clearly, there is no one perfect gun owner insurance or self-defense insurance solution. However, you’ll be able to figure out what is best for you after weighing whether self-defense insurance is right for you and then, if it is, choosing the provider that gives you the most value for the features you’d like for the money you want to spend.

Regardless of what you choose, you’ll be carrying your firearm smarter because you’ll have considered what can happen to you after you use a firearm.



About Ryan Cleckner

Ryan Cleckner
Ryan Cleckner

Ryan Cleckner has been involved in many facets of the firearms industry. As an avid shooter and hunter Ryan has a passion for teaching and sharing what he knows to help others get involved, and excel, in these sports. As a firearms attorney, he enjoys breaking somewhat technical concepts into manageable information.

Ryan is a former special operations sniper and sniper instructor, firearms industry executive, attorney, and author of the Long Range Shooting Handbook #ad.

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grifhunter
grifhunter
3 months ago

The dumbest insurance you can piss your money away on. First, the chances of you being involved in a self defense shooting where someone is injured or you are arrested is so freaking remote, you might as well buy shark bite insurance. No insurance company will indemnify you for intentional criminal conduct. Read the fine print. If you get sued for negligently shooting a perp or bystander, your homeowners insurance will defend and indemnify you. Your money is better spent buying a higher life insurance premium, or a good disability insurance policy (you are more likely to be disabled from… Read more »

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
3 months ago
Reply to  grifhunter

, I think that he is homeowners insurance salesman!

grifhunter
grifhunter
3 months ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

Another substance-less post from the king of vapid posting. Any day now, huh killer?

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
3 months ago
Reply to  grifhunter

@grifter, The purpose of jokes is humor. Your post says more about you , than me.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
3 months ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

, the three bars he passed were O’Malleys Irish Pub, the Hurdy Gurdy Saloon, and the West End Bar and Grill!

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago
Reply to  grifhunter

So much wrong with that post! Where to start? Well, first of all, self defense insurance is not an insurance for a “bad shot”! It is for a “good shot”! It is for the legal costs in case you were justified! Legal representation in a “good shot” scenario costs you at least $3,000-$5,000. That money is spent on making sure you don’t do anything stupid, like talking to law enforcement without a lawyer, and to deal with the bureaucracy. Costs go up once the case is getting more complicated, such as you being charged with a crime. Then, posting bond… Read more »

grifhunter
grifhunter
3 months ago

A) if you were justified, you don’t need coverage. B) Why pay for a lawyer in advance for “just in case”? Hows about putting your money in a bank or mutual fund every month and self finance your attorney. Save that $40 a month for crappy insurance, and in one years time you’d have $3600. In the HIGHLY likely event you don’t need the lawyer, you at least still have the money. Most lawyers take credit cards also. Do you understand the concept of risk allocation, and that a “good shoot” that results in a prosecution is in the probability… Read more »

Matt in Oklahoma
Matt in Oklahoma
3 months ago
Reply to  grifhunter

You act like everyone is broke and in bad health. Your a joke. I’ve got all the above insurance, savings, don’t smoke or drink, workout and get full checkups regularly and if you don’t want it don’t get it but those that do wish to discuss it. USLawSheild even covers off duty officers and no departments do not always cover them when they are involved and yes they are likely to be involved and even more likely to be sued so again your life isn’t the same as everyone else’s.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
3 months ago

OK, If he is to be believed, the grifter is an attorney that has been practicing for twenty-six years. So he can’t have been very successful.
It must annoy him greatly that he has to continue in a contentious gut wrenching, dishonest business just to make a living.
And if he were successful, he would not have time to be posting here. Ya got to have pity on a guy like that.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago
Reply to  grifhunter

@grifhunter: “A) if you were justified, you don’t need coverage.” I guess you have no idea how this works. LOL. I pointed out the costs involved in a justified shooting. George Zimmerman’s legal costs of his justified shooting were upwards of $2 million, by the way. “B) Why pay for a lawyer in advance for “just in case”?” Because that is what ANY insurance is about! I guess in addition to not knowing how the legal system works, you also do not know how the insurance business works. LOL “Save that $40 a month for crappy insurance, and in one… Read more »

Knute
Knute
3 months ago

CF: Keep on pushing for those attorneys Charlie. Give all of your ‘money’ to those minor English Nobles (esquires)! That squares right up with your expressed desire to follow the US Constitution doesn’t it? “8: No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.” -US Constitution, Article I, Section 9, Sentence 8. Well, at least you’re consistently inconsistent! Welcome to… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago
Reply to  Knute

, so you just came here to invent a conflict between us and have a never-ending useless discussion that blows this thread up? Are you that predictable?

I am not a lawyer, so when I need one, I hire one. That’s called capitalism! You might want to look that up!

Knute
Knute
3 months ago

The above is a direct quote from the US Constitution. You claim to revere that document. So how do you live with the idea that the Constitution, that you SAY that you believe in, says that no US Citizen is allowed to accept the British title of Esquire, yet you advocate such use? How is that not 100% hypocrisy? Not an attack, just a question. If you refuse to answer, but only offer more insults, then it is YOU causing the blow up. Why is it so impossible for you to just say something like: “I was not aware of… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago
Reply to  Knute

, as usual. You are so predictable! Coming here and making up a conflict between us that doesn’t exist, just for the purpose of stirring the pot and getting into long-winded nonsensical arguments.

Where did I state that I advocate the use of the title Esquire? I didn’t! You just made that up! Stop making stuff up!

Knute
Knute
3 months ago

CF: Esquire is a British Title of Nobility issued by the Intl. Bar Ass., headquartered in London. If you weren’t so busy sneering down at people and being contentious all the time you might be able to learn that. It’s what’s called a “fact”.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago
Reply to  Knute

, any source for that, or is that also just made up, like my supposed advocacy of the use of the title Esquire?

Also, the International Bar Association isn’t the British government!

Knute
Knute
3 months ago

Well, if you are unable to type “orders of titles of british nobility” into a search engine, I guess I’ll have to do it for you: http://www.edwardianpromenade.com/resources/titles-and-orders-of-precedence/ “Esquires: Including the Eldest sons of the sons of Viscounts and Barons, the eldest sons of all the younger sons of Peers and their eldest sons in perpetual Succession, the younger sons of Baronets, the sons of knights, the eldest son of the eldest son of a Knight in perpetual succession, persons holding the King’s Commission, or who may be styled “Esquire” by the King in any Official Document” So now what? Go… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago
Reply to  Knute

, that article doesn’t say anything about the International Bar Association issuing “Esquire” as a Title of Nobility. So you got now 2 made up claims in this thread:

1. You claimed that I advocate the use of the title “Esquire”. There is no evidence of that!

2. You claimed that “Esquire” is a British Title of Nobility issued by the International Bar Association. There is no evidence of that!

Knute
Knute
3 months ago

I never claimed that you said anything about the word “esquire”. What I DID say was: “Give all of your ‘money’ to those minor English Nobles (esquires). I suspected that you wouldn’t have the slightest idea that Esquires are a Minor British Noble. You’ve now proven that beyond any reasonable doubt.
All the rest is just your giant ego trying to distract away from your ignorance.
Goodbye. I will waste no more time on your foolishness.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago
Reply to  Knute

, you have never claimed that I said anything about the word “esquire”? From your post above at https://www.ammoland.com/2020/06/legal-protection-plans-gun-owners-self-defense-insurance/#ixzz6PZMV5rqr

“So how do you live with the idea that the Constitution, that you SAY that you believe in, says that no US Citizen is allowed to accept the British title of Esquire, yet you advocate such use?”

You claimed that I advocate the use of the title “Esquire”. There is no evidence of that!

Run and hide, run and hide. You have now lied 3 times in this discussion about a made up conflict between us.

Knute
Knute
3 months ago

Talk to the hand, troll.

grifhunter
grifhunter
3 months ago
Reply to  grifhunter

26 years, three bar admissions. Thanks for asking. Got anything substantive to add to refute my position?

Its your family’s money when you die of smoking and obesity and don’t have decent life, auto or disability insurance limits because you invested instead in the fantasy that you are gonna shoot it out any day now.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
3 months ago
Reply to  grifhunter

@grifter, Refute your position? Well… it occurs to me that admissions any of the various state bar associates, do not prove your prowess as an economist or financial advisor. Perhaps there is a different set of evidence that you could rely on.

Matt in Oklahoma
Matt in Oklahoma
3 months ago
Reply to  grifhunter

Your life is not the same of everyone. You speak as someone who has never been in a shoot or even a use of force. You certainly haven’t been sued for any of these. USLawSheild covers ANY legal weapon used to defend yourself. It doesn’t have to be a gun.

grifhunter
grifhunter
3 months ago

Do you have even a remote idea of how many people are charged or sued with civilian self defense crimes? Do you really think the probability of that is greater than a disabling on the job accident, or severe medical illness or a motor vehicle accident? Really? Attach three examples in the recent news.

All you Walter Mitty’s fantasizing about your next shoot out, how about asking your wife or kids which insurance they’d rather you add your $360 a year to.

Matt in Oklahoma
Matt in Oklahoma
3 months ago
Reply to  grifhunter

For me and my wife for coverage for ANY weapon is like $30 a month. Hardly the bank breaker compared to the thousands spent on trials and lawsuits.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
3 months ago
Reply to  grifhunter

, grifter must be the attorney that the insurance companies don’t hire.

Phil
Phil
3 months ago

Ryan,
I noticed that you didn’t mention or review FLP Firearms Legal Protection, any reason why? I would like to hear your view on this legal protection plan.
Thanks,
Phil

Robert B Young, MD
Robert B Young, MD
3 months ago

Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network is the only one of these available in New York. It is also available in Washington state, although that state is working hard and unsuccessfully to deny them; I don’t know about New Jersey. As a New Yorker, I was grateful to find it. The reason is that this is a mutual defense fund, NOT insurance. The entire fund is available to any member who needs it for covered circumstances. Their legal partners have a perfect record of successfully preventing convictions so far. Check it out if you live in those states especially, though it… Read more »

Matt in Oklahoma
Matt in Oklahoma
3 months ago

I use USLawSheild. They’ve done right by me even in minor issues. They’ve always answered any questions I’ve had about travel etc.
I’m not worried bout “picking my attorney” because I don’t know any attorneys, don’t think I’m smarter than any of their attorneys and have found they have state experts that live in the respective states and have contacts.
Check out their YouTube videos for state laws etc.
I don’t care who you use but hope that you do have someone because IF it happens you will need them.

Aa v Erage
Aa v Erage
3 months ago

also helping us out in NY NJ and WA are the states refusing to let us get coverage.

Will
Will
3 months ago
Reply to  Aa v Erage

@Aa,how the hell do they do that?

Sandbagger
Sandbagger
3 months ago

Unfortunately this will allow the government one more way to register law abiding gun owners simply by checking with insurance companies.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
3 months ago
Reply to  Sandbagger

@Sand, the government’s agent would need a warrant or a subpoena, which are not so simple.

45crittergitter
3 months ago
Reply to  Sandbagger

Dude, we already know you have guns.

Matt in Oklahoma
Matt in Oklahoma
3 months ago
Reply to  Sandbagger

Sandbagger
You posted on here so you are hit anyway lol

Jeremy B.
Jeremy B.
3 months ago

From the ACDLN…
“• Education: 9 full-length video lectures and a 235-page book so you know what’s justifiable, what to expect and how to best interact with the criminal justice system.”
“• Monthly education and updates through our online journal.”

I’d say they ought to meet at least 2 of the 3 authors criteria.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
3 months ago

@Author Cleckner, Do any of them cover accidental discharge?

DS
DS
3 months ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

If your gun “accidentally discharges” you would probably do better to maintain a good policy of General Liability insurance coverage. This would include most standard homeowner’s insurance policies or renters policies with general liability coverage . A true “accidental discharge” falls under the legal theory of negligence and might include harm to another caused by a dropped weapon firing, discharge during cleaning or even a child “accidentally” getting a hold of your gun and firing, etc. (And many other situations) So long as the event is accidental (vs intentional) you are likely covered. (I have represented clients on both sides… Read more »

O. L. James III
O. L. James III
3 months ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

Yes, US/Texas Law Shield covers negligent discharge, and has since 2017. https://www.uslawshield.com/presidents-message-we-now-cover-unintended-discharges/

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
3 months ago

@OLJ, III, Thank you for your help! I intend to plead that it was an unintended discharge, and I don’t want that to impede my insurance carrier’s obligation to me.

Finnky
Finnky
3 months ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

@WB – Careful with that. Might want to consult a lawyer before claiming anything like that. Bit vague, but have heard of people being sued for negligence due to accidentally firing – when a purposeful self defense shoot would have been justified. Only shoot when you intend to and only intend to when it is necessary and thus justified. From things you have posted, I have gathered that you are quite capable with firearms and you seem to be a mature-responsible person. You strike me as someone who would know when shooting is necessary – so not worried for you… Read more »

JoeUSooner
JoeUSooner
3 months ago
Reply to  Finnky

Finn, I don’t think you have yet grasped or understood WB’s sense of humor.

JIAZ
JIAZ
3 months ago

Old Saying: “Carry a firearm and you’re hard to kill. Know the law and you’re hard to convict.”

The aftermath of a self-defense shooting is no place for “My Cousin Vinny”. Just like with health, homeowners, and vehicle insurance, you pay your premiums and hope you never need any of them. If you ever do, you’ll welcome any and all help with wide open arms.

https://ccwsafe.com/page/quick-comparison-of-service

Captain Witold Pilecki
3 months ago
Reply to  JIAZ

I have been contemplating such a purchase for years, but never did until last week. I saw a tweet about CCW Safe and looked into it. I bought their “Ultimate” plan and then asked for and got a $50 discount for being a veteran. What made me buy the plan is the uncertain times we are living in and the fact that I am armed 7/24/365 and my wife is covered too. If I have to defend myself here in Kommiecticut, I would be immediately suspect and investigated fully. Almost assumed guilty and have to prove my innocence. I don’t… Read more »

MICHAEL J
MICHAEL J
3 months ago

The irony of a legal system that makes self-defense a questionable act is beyond any reason. But in reality here we are, the moment you pull your weapon, a chain of events starts and how quickly the defender becomes the subject of investigation. These coverages protects your assets, but you better be in the right. There are many clauses to consider, one foremost is the gun you are using better be traceable to you. In other words, it must be legally owned by you. A self-defense shooting with an unregistered gun is almost always certain to disqualify a member. Read… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago
Reply to  MICHAEL J

J, absolute and utter nonsense right here:

“There are many clauses to consider, one foremost is the gun you are using better be traceable to you. In other words, it must be legally owned by you. A self-defense shooting with an unregistered gun is almost always certain to disqualify a member.”

Please tell me with whom your guns are registered with! Mine are registered with no one! There is no federal gun registration. I know of only 6 states that have some form of registration, but not a single state requires the registration of all guns.

MICHAEL J
MICHAEL J
3 months ago

Did you not fill out any forms to purchase your guns? According to USCCA my contract says that my firearms must be legally owned. In California where concealed carry is still authorized, you are allowed up to 3 guns to conceal carry and all 3 sn #s must be on that card. So yes, I consider that registered.
Your guns are in someone’s database and although you don’t consider them registered, I wouldn’t test that theory.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
3 months ago
Reply to  MICHAEL J

@MJ, “Allowed”? How nice of the benevolent tyrants of CA government.

NightFire
NightFire
3 months ago
Reply to  MICHAEL J

CA is an outlier. In most states, you will be allowed to carry and use any weapon you have access to. The only time anyone might need a carry permit is when they are away from home, and that’s still only limited to a few states. Where I live, I can carry a concealed and loaded weapon in my vehicle without a permit and use it for defense without violating a law. I can also use a friends weapon or something that has been gifted to me, which has no paperwork associated with me. Having been born and raised in… Read more »

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
3 months ago
Reply to  NightFire

@NF, I like what you wrote, except the “allowed” part.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago
Reply to  MICHAEL J

@Mike J, you are confusing a number of things, because you don’t live in a free state and you do watch too much TV and movies. (1) The ATF Form 4473 is not for registering the firearms you are purchasing, but for conducting the background check! In free states, a private-party transfer of firearms between residents does not even require an ATF Form 4473 or a background check! (2) California requires the serial numbers of the guns you carry on your carry permit. I do consider this a form of firearms registration and California is one of the 6 states… Read more »

MICHAEL J
MICHAEL J
3 months ago

Respectfully, according to your #6, a database can be used to track firearms in the system all the way back to the seller and maybe the manufacturer. It also stands to reason that they could go forward as well. You might recall when a certain newspaper published all the concealed carry gun owners addresses (it wasn’t California) and the outrage it created. I realize that California is un-constitutional, but the very fact that the CADOJ requires the numbers on my carry permit to match what I indeed own (Sheriff’s Depart requirement), gives me cautious concern. Television and movies isn’t where… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago
Reply to  MICHAEL J

@Mike J, you still don’t understand! The tracing starts with the ATF asking the manufacturer, as the manufacturer needs to keep a record of all firearms and the FFLs they were sent to. Then, the tracing continues with the ATF asking the FFL the gun was shipped to, as the FFL needs to keep a record of that too. Then the ATF knows who bought the gun the very first time it was sold. That’s it! That’s were the tracing ends! Any database by the ATF is prohibited by federal law! Also, such tracing by the ATF requires probable cause… Read more »

MICHAEL J
MICHAEL J
3 months ago

Define database. Maintaining Records of Gun Sales in California Last updated December 10, 2019. Record-keeping and reporting by dealers: California law requires most firearm transfers to be processed through a licensed firearms dealer. See the Private Sales in California section for further information about this requirement. Firearms dealers are required to report all Dealer Record of Sale (“DROS”) transactions to the California Department of Justice (“DOJ”) electronically.1 Subject to limited exceptions, licensed dealers are required to keep a record of electronic transfer of information to DOJ for each sale of a firearm, containing detailed information on the purchaser and the… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago
Reply to  MICHAEL J

@Mike J, so YOUR STATE maintains a database of all firearms transactions. Is there a law in California that states that “the gun you are using better be traceable to you”? Can you cite that law? Are you not justified in shooting a home invader if you are using someone else’s gun and not yours? Can you cite that law? The irony is that your post was meant as a warning to all of us, yet we are discussing California state law, which is complex and doesn’t apply to most of us here. Again, be compliant with state and federal… Read more »

pigpen51
pigpen51
3 months ago

I live in Michigan, so my states laws are of course different from those of any other state. What I think Michael J should have said is that the gun you use to defend yourself is not possessed by you Illegally. Thus meaning you haven’t stolen it, don’t have a gun when you are prohibited from having one, even though in that one case, it worked out for the guy, I would not want to count on that if I was a prohibited person. Also, the gun should, in my state, if it is a handgun, be registered TO SOMEONE.… Read more »

MICHAEL J
MICHAEL J
3 months ago

I do see your point, while I realize that the laws for free states do not apply to California, I unfortunately do not have that luxury. And since you asked, there is verbiage that is mentioned specifically to the recorded owner regarding any gun that can be but not necessarily concealed, specifically handguns. An exerp: B) The person is not listed with the Department of Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106 as the registered owner of that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. And the subjected opinion of LE: (f) A… Read more »

Jeremy B.
Jeremy B.
3 months ago
Reply to  MICHAEL J

“all the way back to the seller and maybe the manufacturer”
A federal firearms trace typically STARTS at the manufacturer. From there it goes to the distributor and then the FFL. That will get you to the original end user of the firearm. But even in those case they may not be able to track the firearm to the current legal owner.

Even in states with so called universal back ground checks a firearm may not be fully traced to it’s current lawful owner.

Bill
Bill
3 months ago

Which ones provide an Atty to consult with before arrest, provide Bail funds, and are not a reimbursement plan?

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago
Reply to  Bill

, getting an attorney before an arrest is really not something that anyone can guarantee. In a defensive shooting, you may not get arrested at all, days after the incident or on the spot right after the incident. This really depends on the circumstances and jurisdiction.

Take a look at this comparison from January: https://www.concealedcarry.com/self-defense-gun-owner-insurance-programs-compared/

Grigori
Grigori
3 months ago

USCCA may be a good product but I am so turned off by their obnoxious, lengthy, ads on YouTube that I would never patronize thrm.

Hazcat
Hazcat
3 months ago
Reply to  Grigori

That and their never ending emails. I must get at least 10 a day and I’m not even a member. It is obvious that they buy email lists so I would bet on them selling their members email addresses as well. I have marked them as SPAM.

O. L. James III
O. L. James III
3 months ago
Reply to  Grigori

USCCA also had $ limits on coverage. Also, they have been sued for failure to pay. https://lawofselfdefense.com/uscca-sued-in-federal-court-refused-to-cover-platinum-member/

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago

@O. L. James III, thanks for posting this. The Kayla Giles murder trial is going on right now and this case appears to be rather complex (with Giles’ former husband having an order of protection against her that she just violated, for example).

Given that denying coverage would automatically lead to bad press, I am sure that the USCCA had their reasons for doing so. This is the first time I have heard that they have denied coverage.

Note that this is a shooting involving a family member, which CCW Safe, for example, does not cover!

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
3 months ago

NRA Carry Guard Self-Defense Insurance = N/A …. LOL, make that NRA = N/A

The NRA Carry Guard Self-Defense Insurance did cost the NRA $100 million. Source: Wayne LaPierre at the January 2020 NRA Board of Directors Meeting

RoyD
RoyD
3 months ago

Looks like Jim Grant is given to sensationalizing things and otherwise saying things which are not true.