Dept. Commerce Census Bureau Requesting Sales Records From Gun Holster Companies?

JM4 Tactical Gun Holster
JM4 Tactical Gun Holster

ABILENE, TX -(Ammoland.com)- Why would the Census Bureau request customer records from American gun holster companies?

That is the question AmmoLand News is asking. Several major holster manufacturers/providers received notices from the Department of Commerce Census Bureau requesting order numbers, product descriptions, and where the items were being shipped. A few holster companies have refused to turn over the requested information to the federal government.

Two of these companies that received the letters and refused are JM4 Tactical and On Your Six Holsters.

“We will never turn over any information on our customers to the government no matter the cost us,” Chad Myers, President of JM4 Tactical, said. “To do so would violate our core beliefs. We need to stand up to an overbearing government. Our customers can rest assured that their information is safe with us!”

The Census Bureau sends out the Commodity Flow Survey to random companies every year. The purpose of the survey is to help the federal government understand the flow of commerce to help shape policies regarding transportation and shipping. This year it seems an abnormal amount of holster companies have received the notice leading some of the holster companies to wonder if the federal government has targeted them.

Some companies reached out to Arbiter Weston Martinez of Texas for help. Mr. Martinez is the former Texas Real Estate Commissioner under former Governor Rick Perry. Mr. Martinez is well connected in the political sphere and believes that the companies are being targeted to gather intel on the gun market. He has vowed to help push back against the alleged government overreach.

“Clearly, the Biden administration is saber rattling for the left in the wake of all the recent losses they have incurred by Supreme Court rulings,” Martinez said. “My clients and I will never back down from anyone that is trying to impugn our Constitutional and God-give rights like the Second Amendment.”

The Census Bureau claims that these companies are bound by law to turn over all requested information.

The Census website claims that companies who refuse to turn over the information could face a fine of up to $5000?

After looking into the law, the statutory limit on fines is $500. It is unclear if the web designer made a typo on the site or if it was a scare tactic to compel companies to turn over information.

Only one company was ever criminally charged with not filling out the survey, and that was in 1994. That doesn’t mean these companies are not in danger. The Biden administration has been hostile to the firearms industry, and these companies that make it easier to carry a concealed gun might be the next group to be targeted.

The companies worry about the Biden administration using the information to target concealed firearms carriers. Since the Bruen decision, there has been an explosion of people in the former “may issue” states looking to carry firearms. The Bruen decision confirmed that we the people have a right to carry a gun outside the home for self-defense. Using holster data, the government could potentially figure out where people plan on concealing a firearm and match that up against permitting data to determine who will be carrying arms without going through the “proper” channels to carry a gun.

AmmoLand News reached out to the Census Bureau, but our calls were not returned.

Census Bureau Gun Holsters Survey_Redacted

Census Bureau Gun Holsters Co Survey


About John Crump

John is a NRA instructor and a constitutional activist. John has written about firearms, interviewed people of all walks of life, and on the Constitution. John lives in Northern Virginia with his wife and sons and can be followed on Twitter at @crumpyss, or at www.crumpy.com.

John Crump

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JR

Thank you for reporting on this, John, I came over from a JPFO link. Still surprises me what an energized Executive Branch will do to look for ways to infringe on freedoms.

Larry

But Democrats claim there is a “constitutional right of privacy.”
If it’s strong enough to condone the killing of fetuses, it’s surely strong enough to protect anyone refusing this sort of demand. Right?

Ledesma

Amazing. But nosy, pushy inquisitions like this certainly explains why liberals fear being shot so bad.

HLB

using the information to target concealed firearms carriers”

The holster information could also be used to target open firearms carriers.

HLB

Pgtips

Fun fact, you too as an individual can be fined by the Census Bureau if you don’t respond to the decennial census, however, the Census Bureau NEVER attempts to collect these fines because they understand that it creates a disincentive to respond. They also go to great lengths to protect PII from respondents and further, enumerators are instructed to ignore all criminal activity in service of getting an accurate population count (and enumerators are fired if they disobey this directive). This means we can logically conclude that the Census Bureau won’t attempt to collect non-response fines for this survey either… Read more »

Mike Crognale

The only thing that you are required to provide to the decennial census is your name, address and the number of persons living at your address. I’ve have done that every time. All the other information they ask is none of their business.

Ope

I agree. It could be they are expanding outside their realm of legal and constitutional authority.

Oldvet

True…They even sent two interviewers out to coerce me . They had to leave with out any more info .

Pa John

So holster / firearm accessory businesses need to save up that $5k to put aside for the fines NOW, and simply refuse to comply with unconstitutional law. If/when they fine you, just have your accountant / lawyer pay it from your thus created legal account and life goes on. I have no doubt that customers being informed that holster prices are going up by a few cents or a nickel or a dollar each (depending on sales volume), in order to help pay the damn fines rather than reveal all of their personal info, would be more than willing to… Read more »

linkman

I had to do one of these for my business about 20 years ago. The form was very similar to this one. The whole thing was a real pain to compile. I think this article is a bit overblown on how intrusive it is. The census isn’t looking for any customer-specific data, but instead aggregated by some of those fields (ZIP code being the most detailed location info).

GeniusJoe

In this they ARE asking for personally identifiable customer information. This then is more evidence that they are acting outside the norm, in order to build another backdoor gun registry.

Last edited 1 month ago by GeniusJoe
The Crimson Pirate

I contacted Alien Gear. I’ll report their reply when I get it.

The Crimson Pirate

Well Alien Gear finally responded. I had sent a follow up email also asking about GOA’s No Compromise Alliance when they didn’t respond to the original. Some comments and name redactions by me in bold italics: Alien Gear Holsters Support ([email protected]) To:you Details Greetings Paul, My name is not Paul. I signed both emails with my correct actual name.   Thank you for reaching out to us and we appreciate the concern of releasing personal information.   This is our customer service department and we would not have access to this information, so we do not have any knowledge of a request… Read more »

The Crimson Pirate

Alien Gear sent out a general email to all their subscribers; “Dear Alien Gear Family, We appreciate your concerns about our stance on the Commodity Flow Survey. As of this email, the Census Bureau has NOT asked us to hand over any customer information. Should they request us to share your personal information, our stance is always to protect it. We are grateful to those who support us as a business. We also value your support of our 2nd Amendment rights. We wouldn’t be able to exist without it.Therefore, we cannot in good conscience agree or comply with any attempts to undermine our 2A… Read more »

John Dow

This is bogus – Census wants records of each and every transaction over some period? Wrong on so many counts – not the least of which is the monetary cost to the business to collect and send this data.

At most, Census should require aggregate information, by destination state. Total number of shipments, weights. That’s all that would support the purported purpose.

Finnky

That’s exactly what I was thinking.

Response: 500 pistol holsters and 400 magazine carriers to California
100 pistol holsters to NY
10000 pistol holsters and 8000 magazine carriers to Texas

Full response of what they asked for – fitment and destination. What does it fit? Pistol or magazine respectively. Where did it go? State XX.

There have been too many data breaches at too many companies. We do not wish to risk disclosing customer’s private information in event of a breach, so we delete all privileged information within XX-days after purchase unless customer requests otherwise (generally faster).

Coelacanth

Communist’s, like rust, never sleep.

GomeznSA

And they NEVER fail to come up with even more ‘ingenious’ (or is that devious?) ways to infringe, even if it is only peripherally.
Anyone want to venture what other gun related accessories they will target (pun intended) next?

Jaque

But they bleed out.

Florida_Orange

This is a good reminder to always pay cash, in person, at the register for all your firearm related purchases. I think it may be wise to put forth effort into leaving no paper trail behind. Like the story above, it only takes the government to ask for customer records. It only requires your credit card company to turn over your purchase history to the government.

RetUSAF

That works if you don’t live between a corn field and a bean field in central Illinois. The closest decent gun store to me is over 40 miles away. I can’t even find good .22 match ammo like Eley, Lapua etc anywhere and have order from the internet. Many dealer will not even ship to Illinois because they don’t want to be bothered with the draconian FOID requirement. This state sucks!

ShooterOne

Who is stupid enough to give them this information? Any company complying with their reauest for information should have their customers after them for divulging private information. The government is getting too sneaky and “WE THE PEOPLE” need to wake up and wake up all our friends as well. Yes I know, they will think we are alarmists, right-wing radical, or who knows what but they’ll thank you someday.

2gats

I WANT TO KNOW WHICH COMPANIES CO-OPERATE AND SEND INFORMATION

CaptainKerosene

Outhouse backdoor gun registration. Every holster, sling and gun case( luggage) maker should refuse.

GomeznSA

CK – as 3gats suggested, we need a naughty or nice list so we know which vendors do not comply. Reward them with our business and by default punish those who do.

Bruce

This b.s. is why the supreme court rulled that these pseudo agencies can make law. Chief Justice John Roberts said that under what the court has recently called the “major questions doctrine,” neither the EPA nor any other agency may adopt rules that are “transformational” to the economy — unless Congress has specifically authorized such a transformative rule to address a specific problem, like climate change.

GomeznSA

Bruce – I’ll go even further and state that any law, rule, regulation etc. that does not fit into one of the 17 duties/responsibilities specified for the federal government in the Constitution should be null and void. Too many folks forget that the Constitution limits what fedzilla is allowed to do.

musicman44mag

Mr. %%%%% we are here under the new red flag laws because we received a complaint that you are a danger to yourself and possibly others from your X girlfriend so you need to give us all your guns. He opens the safe because he is an idiot and says, here they are. They go through the inventory. Mr. ###### we have the guns you provided but we see that you purchased a concealed carry holster for a gun that was made before serial numbers were required on guns and registration laws were in place. Where is that gun? Uh… Read more »

Arny

I wonder when Levis & such start giving their customers names. Pocket guns are scary too. lol

MP71

Gee Mr. Doe, according to our records you’ve purchased several holsters for modern guns. However, a detailed analysis shows no federal background check forms for such firearms. We can only conclude that you are buying black market guns or manufacturing “ghost guns”.

musicman44mag

Good point. Didn’t look at it in that way. I am sure we are both right.

swmft

it would give them an idea , none of 80% have been based on pocket pistols

The Crimson Pirate

Polymer 80 and Glock Store both make Glock 43 kits. Also lots of 3D printer files for many types of pistols.

swmft

from the non existent registry that like fbi have followed the laws congress wrote, only changed them a little…..uh what only congress can change a law ……. corrected wording……still congress …. so government agencies are making laws…..no no no we are correcting them…..um no congress has to fix their mistakes but we are law enforcement we tell you what you can and cant do…so you are an armed gang attacking small groups with as big an army as you can muster……well no we enforce the law…..whose the one written by congress????? or one you made up ??? well its the… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by swmft
RetUSAF

My answer: Holsters make nice Christmas and Birthday gifts. Then tell then they are violating my Fourth Amendment rights by asking.

Last edited 1 month ago by RetUSAF
swmft

well they screwed the cash people with every transaction over 500 flagged so only closed transactions are barter.

GomeznSA

I thought it was 600 but the point is that eliminating cash (and bartering) is the main reason slow joe is pushing so hard for an all digital monetary system.

PMinFl

This looks like another rung on the ladder of lost freedom. Step by step we’re losing little bits of our rights. I hope these steps don’t lead to Bunker Hill.

Grigori

Well, I think by now we all know where it is leading. Better BH than inaction and eventual enslavement and subjugation.

63Sunset

We are becoming a turn key communist country, everything the former Soviet Union leaders ever dreamed of.

WeWereWarned

The Founders warned us not to what the older folks did to us, it has nothing to do with the Russians, who made that same historical observation. The Founders knew the greatest enemy to our Liberty was us, which is why they warned us not to do what they experienced. The not so great generation and boomers said hold my beer, and executed the Constitutional Republic, and replaced it with a two party democracy. The older folks have made it to where a socialist enforcer, can just follow orders to violate the Constitution and harm or kill us armed Citizens… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by WeWereWarned
Finnky

Ageist much? Our two-party system really started in the 1790’s. Don’t think too many boomers have been around that long. My generation had a lot to do with formalizing ability to claim self defense even when attacked by a LEO. We do not believe a badge over-rides anything! But then I don’t believe I’m from either of the generations to whom you attribute all this evil. Erosion of rights has been a slow process, with frequent resets of normal-expectations. Fortunately, driven largely by boomers, we’ve recently (last few decades) seen restoration of some rights. Thank you for that boomers! Now… Read more »

Mudhunter

I have actively refused to cooperate with the census bureau when they have specifically targeted me to gather info for one of their surveys that are beyond the scope of just counting folks. I would find notes on my door, or they would come to my house or send me a letter. I told them each time they were operating outside their limited powers and were in violation of the Constitution. I requested that THEY comply with the Constitution and to quit harassing me. I contacted my Congressman to let him know about this unconstitutional conduct. I don’t know if… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Mudhunter
swmft

even their counters are not stupid enough to open my gate

2gats

I have NEVER co-operated with census takers………they always eventually go to my neighbors and my neighbors ALWAYS thoughtlessly rat us out

uncle dudley

I thought the job of the Census Bureau was to count the people living in areas to establish congressional districts.
Way out of line for them sticking their nose into private business for any reason.
Smells of attempted gun confiscation plans.

musicman44mag

I was told by the census bureau that the reason they need to know how many people live in a household is so they know if they need to provide more funds for the schools or maybe build another school, build a hospital or med clinic in the neighborhood, widen roads or provide more public transportation. The 2010 census the dumb ass asked me if I had any children living at home. I looked at her and said, sweety I live in a 55 and older community, what do you think? and slammed the door. This last census I gave… Read more »

Arny

I bet you are in a higher tax bracket now, when it comes to paying property taxes. That is how they get you to fill their forms out. At least here in Pa. Unless there was a change from the last census a person should not need to fill them out. I quit doing it years ago. It’s just a PAIN IN MY ASS. And NONE of their business.

musicman44mag

I agree but obummer made it to where they can fine you and take it out of your tax refund or bank account, so he claimed. Would have been nice to actually get one rather than pay like I always do. So, I told him very little and he didn’t get to find out what color I was or what race. There were a few others on there I had a smart-ass answer for too. I was waiting to get a letter or a knock on the door but it never happened. I had four friends and three relatives fill… Read more »

swmft

I sent it back no full time residents,which is true I have more than one house , as for taking money from government got a letter asking why I did not take any of the kill the economy give always, sent them back answer you want to create hyper inflation to destroy middle class I will have nothing to do with it.

musicman44mag

Well, I would have liked to mail the check back but I have only paid taxes all my life. No child deductions and paid school taxes on multiple schools when I had two homes before the government screwed me in 2008 and I lost everything. I feel they owe me allot more than what they have given. I think next if they are going to give reparations to people based only on the color of their skin that they should give reparations to me because I was a homeowner that lost them because of how they Fd up the economy… Read more »

swmft

if you buy land set up a non profit trust , you and your wife are named care takers so much for taxes it is the same loophole warren buffet uses to pay nothing others too ,because it is a trust trustees you can elect people to board of trust to run it when you die name the care taker , land is stipulated as wildlife conservation. hunting is part of conservation, control of invasive spices (wild hogs) have a small group of Canadians that come and help during winter donate time and money

musicman44mag

Just told the wife. When we are gone we don’t care where the money goes or the property because we have no children to leave it to and the remainder of the family doesn’t deserve it so why not. We both agree, good idea, thank you.

nrringlee

The most finite data point used in census data is the zip code. So why would the census bureau need anything beyond that like customer names, addresses, cities and phone or email information? I can telly why. They need it as a back door to gun registration. And tell me, does this only apply to holsters? Keep in mind most manufacturers of holsters also make belts, belt cases and other items not necessarily tied to carrying a gun concealed. The nefarious nature of Progressive New Left bureaucrats sitting in large numbers in cubicles with nothing better to do than think… Read more »

Ken

Ever heard of a ‘census tract’? Census tracts can be much smaller than zip code, especially in highly populated areas. A census tract is an area roughly equal to a neighborhood. Census tracts are smaller than a city, but larger than a block group. Modern Geographic Info Systems (GIS) and address databases provide a data point resolution much finer than zip code alone. https://simplyanalytics.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204848916-What-is-a-census-tract-

hippybiker

Can you spell Government overreach?! The stated purpose of the Census Bureau is count the people in the USA every 10 years, period!

GomeznSA

hippy – and yet they can’t even decide whether they should only count Citizens or be ‘inclusive’ and count every single person. Last time I checked only LEGAL residents were directly entitled (by paying city, county, state and federal taxes) to government services…………………

swmft

they are looking for ways to block gun supplies through commerce act
read what they are asking ,this is about finding ways to create choke points, not ease flow

Last edited 1 month ago by swmft
Rob

You’re overreacting, John. Nothing in what you provided as documentary proof indicates the aim is to tracking consumers down to name and address. I wish you media guys (I use that term loosely in your case) would stop reading more into a situation than actually exists. This type of “reporting” is bogus, inflammatory, and fits nicely into President Trump’s description of fake news. You’re grounded from all electronics for a month!

hippybiker

We’ve got a shill here! You are one of those insufferable idiots that has to link everything to President Trump!
Can I ask you a pertinent question? Does Oatmeal for Brains Biden’s fecal matter have a pleasant taste?!

Finnky

Bad as this looks, if you read the pdf John included, you will see that it requests destination city, state and zip code. While 9-digit zip code is pretty specific, 7 digit is considerably larger.

I strongly disapprove – but they are not requesting ID of the receiver.

musicman44mag

Just because you have your head stuck in the sand doesn’t mean the remainder of us can’t read the writing on the wall. Some of us have served in government and know how the systems work. Some of us were told that we are conspiracy theorist for so long that we doubted ourselves only to find out later that we were actually right, and the government is corrupt.

Steveg

What writing on what wall. They are requesting general shipping information. THere is no PII requested. Zip code is the most granular it gets, and I do not see where products are listed, merely total ship weight. THis is blown WAY out of proportion

musicman44mag

Wow, 25 days and you respond. Now I see that you are slow on the uptake in more ways than one.

You need to find another site with buddies that are antigun so you will have a happier existence.

swmft

there is more going on than makes since based on number of businesses that make holsters. local tack shop received one of these he makes custom only so any answer would be personal info ,direct sales over internet same thing this is too directed, looks like the anti gun people are looking for where to put their money to greatest effect

Dry gulched

Remember “I’m from the federal government and I’m here to help.” Yea, right.

WeWereWarned

The worst part about that saying is the conservatives not admitting that the actor and Alzheimer’s president who said that, then expanded the government and destroyed Liberty with his religious drug war and gun control.

Think of the drug war, and how older folks allowed the government to trample on the Bill of Rights, because the government said it was helping them.

swmft

last good president was Truman, Nixon started with good intensions in 1960 he lost his way. not standing up for mlk his friend

JH1961

WHEN will WE THE PEOPLE have had ENOUGH of this ILLEGAL REGIME to actually do something about it?

Deplorable Bill

If, IF this was on the level they would not have asked for, rather demanded, customer info. A simple “How many did you sent to each city/county?” would have gotten the legitimate job done. This is a very thinly veiled effort to track firearm owners. I am glad there are companies who will hold their ground for their customers but there is always a way in via computer. There is smoke here and there will be a fire wither we want one or not. One more nail in the coffin of freedom. Well, when they come, and they have promised… Read more »

Cruiser

Great idea DB. Maybe we should start using the tactics of the left.

musicman44mag

I have been saying that for about 6 years now yet we still kiss obidens ass and are not trying to use the 25th on him like they did President Trump. Maybe after the election if we actually have a real election and win the house and senate so that way pukoski won’t replace obiden and kamala toe needs to be thrown out too so she doesn’t become president. Any one of these three remain or get in power and it will be more prayers asking God to help our nation.

Arizona

Shove it up diaper wearing joe biden’ arse!

Pistol

Yesterday local news in Missouri were reporting some sheriffs received letters from FBI wanting to audit the concealed carry permits. Our attorney general said not going to happen.

Ope

The Census Bureau needs this information only to produce statistics ? Bullshit !

swmft

one of the anti gun groups asked for the info

GomeznSA

The more specific and detailed data they have about any/all aspects of our daily livesthe tighter they can pull in the control reins.

All of those nightmare scenarios (conspiracy theories?) such as the one where the guy tries to order a pizza and the shop owner refuses because of a variety of reasons WILL end up becoming reality.