Red Flag Law Concerns & Considerations

Opinion by Amanda Suffecool

Firearms Confiscation Orders Gun Red Flag Laws
Red Flag Law Concerns & Considerations

USA – -(AmmoLand.com)- Red flag laws – and my open letter to our elected representatives. This is what I sent to mine, feel free to add, subtract, modify, and send to yours.

As a gun owner and an active 2A advocate, let me start by stating that I am not in favor of red flag laws being invoked across the country.

But I am a realist. They are coming. Our elected officials are being driven into a position – some call it between a rock and a hard place – where they will be forced to do something, even if it’s wrong, even if it does nothing to solve the issue at hand.

The cries heard are ‘we are facing murders in waves across the country“, or ‘it’s getting worse, and we must take action.’ Data does not support the statement of mass killings/firearms death/crime increasing, but it does not matter. One death is one too many. Families are mourning; communities are in shock.

We all want to ‘fix it,’ what we are trying to get our heads around, and our legislation to stop, what we are trying to get agreement upon is… if we are forced legislatively to give up our guns, would these murders stop?

Gun owners, you and I track these attacks, and the ones that are also hate-filled and happen with knives, cars, and boarded up buildings to burn all that is inside (all current attacks in areas where guns are banned, restricted or unavailable as tools to a person where hate runs rampant).

I have respect for all that are searching, thinking, and asking- maybe in a different manner than I, but asking none the less, What can we do to stop the evil?

I am asking you to read this over, I have queried the best and the brightest in the 2A world for their opinions on what should be included in red flag – if we must have it. They are as follows.

Concerns include – due process or lack thereof. Using red flags as a manner of societal punishment or using the police force in a manner to ‘swat’ the gun owner.

If we must have red flag – please consider the following inclusions.

  • Due process – invoke a time frame (12 hours or less) from the time of the accusation to being seen before a judge AND the same standard of law used to involuntarily commit a person who is a threat to themselves and the public as the standard.
  • Storage – if you are taking personal property, storage in a manner that PRESERVES the condition of said property in the manner it was found in.
  • Guarantee of return of property – in a (set time ) manner when the person is found to be exonerated.
  • Invoke fines and penalties – to those who are found to make false claims. False claims can ruin someone’s life (look at the spate of rape accusations). AND an expectation of prosecution of those that use bogus claim for their own means and motives. AND add the ability to use the law to obtain punitive damages (civil and criminal penalties) against the accuser for false claims.
  • If the person is found to be a threat – do not take the firearms (the tools) take the person. We have seen other tools used against the public by those who are a threat ( recently – the use of knives, acid, fire, and vehicles). It’s about the hate, the crime, the mental illness more than it’s about the tools.

Mental health officials can use “pink slip” involuntarily detain and evaluate a person who is believed to have the ideation, plan, intent, and means to harm himself/herself or someone else.

Our future is in your hands. Actions, for the sake of actions, generally help no one. Our trust is placed in you; please set the country’s future course and direction with thought for all that inhabit it. The Second Amendment is not negotiable and must be defended, and our hope is with you.

I have spent my life on Second Amendment issues, and will gladly offer myself and my contacts as resources should you have additional questions on this topic.

Sincerely

Amanda Suffecool

  • Host – EyeOnTheTargetRadio
  • Delegate – Ohio Representative of the Pro Firearms Education group DCProject.info
  • Director – REALIZE firearms awareness coalition.

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Circle8
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Circle8

Red Flag laws are unconstitutional because it denies the accused of “due process” before the fact. The fact is not evidence at best it is a possibility of action probably based on a lying spouse or someone else. The person is guilty because a spouse or someone is mad. I am retired Law Enforcement and have lost track of how many family fights or “Domestic Disturbance” calls I have rolled on. The participants lie like a rug and without verification of the incident any action you take is questionable. All parties claim theirs comments are the truth and everyone else… Read more »

KenW
Member
KenW

Senator Dodd who pretty much authored the GCA 68, was passed as you posted after the assassinations of MLK & RFK, but it was probably already in the works. Dodd was an army intelligence officer and he formulated the GCA from the German GCA of 1938 which he had access to in 1945.

TEEBONE
Member
TEEBONE

Amanda, with all due respect, your letter sounds like you are pleading before the king, not demanding fealty to the Constitution from a representative whose duty it is govern with honor and restraint, and who, btw, WORKS FOR YOU.

It ain’t the other way around. Pleading won’t get it done; fire in the eyes, iron in the words, and the promise that we will not submit – these are the qualities and tactics needed.

Not threats, but a clear message of determination. Nothing less will do.

tomcat
Member
tomcat

The Rino’s that are writing these anti Constitutional laws are saying that their bill follows the Constitution. If that were true it would be a better solution than the 14 red flag laws that are already in force in various states. Of course, if a ll the protections were in place there are laws on the books that fulfill that need. Those laws do not apply strictly to guns, only, and that is the problem. They just want the guns, not the hammers or cars.

SGT_Wombat
Member
SGT_Wombat

ERPOs miss one very BIG point. If the person is too dangerous to have a gun, what about all their other potential weapons? Hammers, knives, bats, household chemicals, car/truck, etc.?
So it’s OBVIOUS ERPOs are not anti-threat, they are anti-gun.

Levelhead
Member
Levelhead

We in the gun world have been claiming for years that it is not the tool, but the people. The concept behind Red Flag Laws is exactly that: get the people who are likely to commit the crime. Of course, the arrest, commitment, or confiscation must be done while maintaining the rights of the “accused” individual. This to me, is the definition of “due process of law.” That means that all the legal and constitutional rights of an individual must be protected. Right to an attorney, right to a speedy trial, right to be faced by your accuser, right to… Read more »

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Lhead, So called Red Flag statutes out line a system of denunciation, ex parte hearing, and decreed confiscation of property, not the person. Naked denunciation, no attendance at the hearing, no lawyer, no defense,followed by judicial fiat, followed by clumsy seizure, improper storage, and deprivation of one’s personalty, without compensation, for months and years is your idea of the process that is due? What world did you say that you were in for years?

TheRevelator
Member
TheRevelator

@Wild Bill Take a close look at the what Levelhead is saying. Its a much more polished version, but very similar to what Green Watch Dog was pushing months ago. It also ignores other things that have been happening around the country. Judges declaring that Political officials cannot be sued or held accountable for their actions (Florida), malfeasance or straight up crimes against citizens to violate property rights and steal from individuals (asset forfeiture) (And Michigan’s property tax cases). Levelhead is not here for solutions. Concerning the way he speaks, the language he employs, and the context behind it I… Read more »

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Rev, I noticed, but I wanted to be brief, and not go into it all. Fire danger is high here for the next few days lots of brush control to do. He is probably ratting me off to some angry mob of socialists, even as we write. Well, when they get here … I’m putting them all to work.

TheRevelator
Member
TheRevelator

@Wild Bill

Stay safe, and more importantly make sure your family stays out of harms way. Be praying for you.

UncleT
Member
UncleT

OMG,the defeatism and surrender into tyranny is incredible coming from so called 2nd Amendment Supporters and die hard ‘Constitutionalists’. You do realize the state has murdered a man in MD enforcing these Draconian Orwellian Unconstitutional laws, right? If the Government is so concerned about the person being so dangerous, why not confiscate the person and not the guns to leave that person to use other weapons to commit a harmful act? This about a major power grab by both parties. Again, The Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits the purchase or possession of firearms by people who have been formally… Read more »

Levelhead
Member
Levelhead

Let’s take your comment one item at a time. If the police had a warrant, and served it by knocking on the door the accident would likely not have occured. I agree, it’s the person, and they should be seen before a judge who would have the authority to hold them, or commit them. The 72 hour hold requires a judge. Good! And people who commit a federal crime when they try to buy a gun should be arrested on the spot. If we get away from the gun, and focus on properly processed people we take care of this… Read more »

TheRevelator
Member
TheRevelator

@ Levelhead Thank you for showing everyone here you are not a 2nd Amendment Supporter. “I’d be interested in hearing what your “common sense” suggestions are for stopping this slaughter, other than a gun in every pocket,” Not only was this a dead giveaway to what you really are, it shows you have no concept of the issue involved in what you are labeling as a “Slaughter” For example, the only idiots using that language are those who are pushing for infringements from the beginning. Gun crime is down, murders are down, and deaths from guns are down from the… Read more »

mikeL
Member
mikeL

@levelhead…..what! Where is it written within the Constitution and Bill of Rights that WE have to surrender OUR 1st amendment rights to talk between ourselves? I believe that you really should set yourself down and read OUR BILL OF RIGHTS. Then maybe you will come to an understanding of just what these erpo’s entail and why WE have the beliefs we have. We will not surrender. We have core beliefs instilled upon us by our Fore Fathers who saw far down the road to where we are today. Come back once you have understood OUR BILL OF RIGHTS!.

JIAZ
Member
JIAZ

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”
Samuel Adams

TheRevelator
Member
TheRevelator

One of my favorite quotes. JIAZ.

Considerthis
Member
Considerthis

Amanda, While i always want to be as polite as i can, this may not be the time for it. I have never heard your radio show but I hope this essay is not the kind of thing being broadcast over the air. For me, there is way too much defeatism and surrender in all of this. If you are reaching out for ideas, your list should insist upon a sunset provision. Since it is unknown whether this solution ( giving up your right to due process ) will make any difference, you should insist that these be treated as… Read more »

Jeff
Member
Jeff

“. . . will be forced to do something, even if it’s wrong, even if it does nothing to solve the issue at hand.” While no doubt many supporters of the Red Flag Laws truly believe they will help, they are driven by emotion, not reason. They don’t see the faults in the logic because they are driven by their feelings. Indeed, who does not have an emotional reaction to these mass murders? While the supporters are sincere, many anti-gunner leaders are disingenuous. They know these laws will likely have little or no effect. That’s the point — pass one… Read more »

John
Member
John

Who makes the gun owner whole when their firearms are confiscated, are found innocent, and their pristine collection as returned are damaged, scratched, chipped, rust appearing…whatever, who? What does robust due process mean we hear these politicians expound when promoting red flag confiscation? Red Flag laws appear designed to pit the First Amendment against the Second Amendment. Now you have to watch what you post on social media, as even the most innocent statement can be twisted to support justification to confiscate. If the standard is still any law repugnant to the Constitution is null and void, then Red Flag… Read more »

Mac
Member
Mac

If the law had the safeguards listed and they were actually forced to be used it could be done. BUT they will not be followed. Liberals will just go around them and say it’s in the interest of public safety. This will be BS and the law will fall apart.

ras52
Member
ras52

Mac, you’re right.

CourageousLion
Member
CourageousLion

Many, many years ago someone with a similar “law” went to confiscate the arms from mentally ill “rebels”. The rebels decided to fight the confiscation of their arms and fired the shot heard around the world as they aimed small and missed small at the heads of the Kings Red Coats at Concord Green. I suspect that since we no longer have the Militia GUARANTEED us by the first 13 words of the 2nd amendment that so many of you cherish (rights to be armed exists outside of any 2nd amendment) it will be one of us against an army… Read more »

mikeL
Member
mikeL

Amen CourageousLion….Amen

Jetmech1
Member
Jetmech1

Every law passed by Congress becomes a train wreck. Remember Obamacare? How did that work out? This entire situation has been 50 years in the making and has more facets than can be counted. Generally speaking it can be summed up as a overall moral decline of the country which largely has it roots in liberal/socialist values where there is no accountability to anyone or anything for the actions of people. They’re always given a crutch whether it’s a bad childhood, being bullied in school or the internet, and on and on. It’s always someone or something elses fault. Now… Read more »

CourageousLion
Member
CourageousLion

You are absolutely correct, the problem isn’t the guns. Never has been. These days it’s the DRUGS that are being prescribed that EVERY one of these murderers is on. And then there is the glorification of DEATH by video games, movies and our societies love of the military. Read about the common denominator THERE! SO many are REJECTS from the military. They wanted to go somewhere else and kill someone else. And MOST if not all of them get their firearms from legal sources. NO ONE has the right to violate due process. NO ONE has the right to determine… Read more »

TEEBONE
Member
TEEBONE

Remember this: All laws are RESTRICTIONS.

Congress is in the ‘business’ of restricting liberty.

De facto.

Will
Member
Will

JOIN GOA ! “THE ONLY NO-COMPROMISE GUN LOBBY IN WASHINGTON” !

CourageousLion
Member
CourageousLion

Life member here! I wish I could get my money back from the FULL COMPROMISE NRA for my life membership. I wouldn’t send them a piece of toilet paper for support anymore. When I found out that they were actually BEHIND the NICS system as well as the 68 GCA and the nefarious 1934 NFA act that makes us have to jump through hoops for a simple rifle purchase that has a barrel less then what “They” have determined is “legal”…NRA “leadership” (read as CROOKS with their 7 digit salaries) can go shoot themselves on America’s Got Talent as far… Read more »

Green Mtn. Boy
Member
Green Mtn. Boy

Speaking of GOA. GOA Action Alert ; Flag Gun Confiscation Bill NOW, SENATE REPUBLICANS ARE UNITING BEHIND LINDSEY GRAHAM’S BILL THAT WOULD EFFECTIVELY *END* YOUR 2A RIGHTS. This Red Flag Gun Confiscation bill, based on a prototype drafted by the anti-gun Giffords Organization, would send SWAT teams to your door to steal your guns with NO REAL DUE PROCESS WHATSOEVER. This is our promise to you — we will fight until the very last vote is cast to destroy this atrocious bill, but we’re going to need voters like you to help turn up the heat on the Senate GOP.… Read more »

Graham
Member
Graham

It’s best to compose your own letter, they all have “bots” to catch the same letter, so they only have to read it once, if they even bother. So…Here’s my letter :- I am writing you out of grave concern for the future of our great nation. Recent shootings seem to have triggered a massive “knee jerk” response from many members of congress. However, it would seem, that many of your colleagues and members of the other house are going about this in a very wrong direction. Firstly ERPO (red flag laws) will do, and would have done, NOTHING to… Read more »

tomcat
Member
tomcat

@ GMB It was announced, today, that McConnell promised to take up the already passed house bill that puts a lot of new sides in the back ground check system. If it was passed by the house I’m sure it is bad news.. Mitch has been taking a lot of heat including the visit to his house. I think things are getting worse or we are getting closer to noncompliance.

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Tcat, If the radicals learn that threatening him, at his home, works, then they will be over at Mitch’s place every time that they want to manipulate him. I guess that I should put him on my correspondence list.

tomcat
Member
tomcat

@ Wild Bill I heard this evening that he videoed them and put ti on twitter. The progressives at twitter suspended his twitter account. They called him some real offensive names and threatened to stab him in the heart.

ras52
Member
ras52

Will, I joined GOA 2017. Have not given NRA any money since 2008.

Will
Member
Will

@ras,I joined GOA in ‘18 and haven’t given NRA nothing since. But I donate a lot to the GOA esp.now. Plus,I’m a life member of the NRA and it really pisses me off too. The betrayal to its members.

Will
Member
Will

I need to correct something. I have been a life member of the NRA since ‘82 ! Who would had thought back in those days they would totally betray their members and the 2A decades later.

Get Out
Member
Get Out

Red flag laws as written are going to be abused by people calling in false claims by an ex spouse or significant other, disgruntled persons that don’t agree with you politically, anti-gunners who followed you home from a shooting range, pranksters who thought it would be funny later. Worst law these clowns could have ever have come up with that’ll put people in a very dangerous position when LEO’s show up in force to confiscate the guns.

CourageousLion
Member
CourageousLion

Yea, especially when LEO’s start getting shot by the hundreds.

Charlie Foxtrot
Member
Charlie Foxtrot

So, the solution is to lower the bar on detaining people to the point that a mere accusation can land someone in detention for god knows how long. After all, who can acquire proper legal representation and defend themselves properly within 12 hours of being detained? Which judge will let go anyone who has been accused of being dangerous and has no strong defense? Which judge will punish accusers that were wrong, but acted upon their feelings? Stop deconstructing the Constitution! Red flag laws are, by definition, unconstitutional. That’s their whole point! The person being targeted is not being accused… Read more »

Buckshot
Member
Buckshot

Red flag laws are unquestionably unconditional. However, the high bar that we’ve used to commit the mentally ill has resulted in hundreds of thousands of people living on the streets in LA, SF, Seattle and NYC. I reject the idea of incarcerating people who MIGHT commit crimes, but if the police have visited a person’s house dozens of times for bizarre or threatening behavior, you might want to have a plan to limit his/her gun access.

Charlie Foxtrot
Member
Charlie Foxtrot

“Red flag laws are unquestionably unconditional.” — Did you mean unconstitutional? “However, the high bar that we’ve used to commit the mentally ill has resulted in hundreds of thousands of people living on the streets in LA, SF, Seattle and NYC.” — What has homelessness in these four cities to do with the high bar to commit people to mental institutions? The main issue these cities have is gentrification. You probably won’t even be able to pay rent in these cities. Buying a house typically requires a cash payment. “but if the police have visited a person’s house dozens of… Read more »