Trump – Love Him Or Hate Him, the Alternative Will Destroy America

Opinion By Alan J Chwick & Joanne D Eisen

III% United Patriots
Trump – Love Him Or Hate Him, the Alternative Will Destroy America

USA – -( One thing is sure! Gun laws don’t work. Gun laws are counterproductive and even dangerous. We need to remain united on this point, as well as on the present political realities.

Our Constitution is in danger.

We are fighting irrational liars on two fronts. Our rabid US gun control crowd demand ever stronger firearms control, even as thousands of laws fail to achieve their promise of peace in our streets. And the UN crowd cannot even control their own regulations and weapons.

Nevertheless, these fronts continue to promise peace through disarmament. They are lying. They really want full civilian control through disarmament! Even though disarmament is unachievable in the present global context, the attempted path to it is socially destructive.

It was recently claimed by UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres that, “Disarmament prevents and ends violence.” This is not true. This is baloney.

Reading between the lines, one can see the frustrating failure of their weapons control experts as they ask, What incentives and approaches exist to overcome current capacity and technical gaps?” Their past failures give them no expectation of future success.

Here in the US, for example, the restrictive Sullivan Act, passed in 1911 in NYS, with the intent of denying weapons to most NY citizens. Nearly a century later, reliable Justice Department estimates would suggest that New Yorkers owned as many as two million illegal black market firearms.

These weapons are mostly owned by both the criminal elements of NY City and local business people maintaining some form of balance of power.

Fairly accurate recent US civilian gun stock estimates hover at just under 400,000,000. [estimates]

We cannot be disarmed. Government agents would soon find that the task is beyond their capabilities. If there are to be civil disturbances, we will not be the losers.

It would undoubtedly be welcomed by weapons control freaks if they could gain control of all those weapons. But it would be more likely if those weapons simply fell off the grid.

We know that criminals and the mentally disturbed cannot be prevented from obtaining weapons, just as we cannot be separated from ours. All of those foreign and domestic enemies will fail to disarm us.

The black market takes care of that. And the black market does not create lists of weapons owners. These lists have often been used to criminalize classes of weapons, and then confiscate them at the whim of the day.

The black market is always there and can expand, and contract, as required, to meet the demand. Despite the failing Arms Trade Treaty and all the other failed schemes, the UN arms control crowd, and our own homegrown local gun phobes are on a never-ending attempt to control global weapons and the civilians whom they have so far failed to disarm.

We must remain united in our goal, and not respond with angry disgust to the winds of politics. We must not become self-destructive or disunified.

We need to hold together to meet the enemies of freedom, as they are coming. United, we succeed. We have strength on our side. We have the achievable goal of peace through strength. We have the dream of the ancient Greek Athenians who understood the benefits of freedom.

Even now, our country is the remaining bastion of civilian power. We are the only symbol of light that our fellow global citizens can cling to on their journey to freedom.

We can marvel at the struggles of the Hong Kong freedom fighters who are resisting heavily armed Chinese ‘would-be’ masters with the symbol of our flag and the words of our National Anthem of freedom.

Gun laws never work as promised to bring about a more peaceful society. Gun laws merely spur the growth of black markets. What was once legal becomes illegal. And that leads to problems for us, in politically expedient, Democrat-sponsored, new laws that soon appear.

Even if our President signs a compromise bill, it will be as nothing to what the Democrats will pass the next cycle, if we weaken the Republican party and help the Democrats win.

We will not cooperate with confiscatory laws, but we will accept creeping criminality before we disarm.

In the past, we have met confiscatory gun laws with civil resistance. We will never compromise with the left and their lies. But we may be forced by them to slide down the slope of criminality.

This scenario need not occur if our President retains control, no matter what happens in DC.

President Trump thinks he can make a deal that will work.

To withdraw support for Trump weakens him. Withholding funds from our gun groups only serves to strengthen the enemy. We need to learn from our lying Democrat enemies. They cling together and attack together, even when they are wrong.

For some strange reason, we do not. We think for ourselves and make our own decisions. But we no longer have that comfortable option.

Trump is usually more right than wrong. We have the power to weaken him to the point where we put the Democrat liars back in control and give them the keys to our Second Amendment rights, just because we can’t stand together for our own political advantage.

Now is not the time to overthink tactical possibilities. Now is the time to show unity to a crazed mob of foreigners and local turncoats who see a civilian disarmament victory just around the corner, and who are too tied into their lies and uncontrolled rants to function as patriotic Americans.

So let us watch and await the evils of the DC crowd, and allow us to remain faithful and strong at the ballot box in 2020.

Continue to Support:

  • President Trump
  • The GOA
  • The Second Amendment Foundation
  • The NRA.

About the Authors:

Alan J Chwick has been involved with firearms much of his life and is the Retired Managing Coach of the Freeport NY Junior (Marksmanship) Club. He has escaped from New York State to South Carolina and is an SC FFL ( [email protected] | TWITTER: @iNCNF

Joanne D Eisen, DDS (Ret.) practiced dentistry on Long Island, NY. She has collaborated and written on firearm politics for the past 30+ years. She has also escaped from New York State but to Virginia. [email protected]

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And this is what happens when you are willing to provide evidence for what you claim, Ask another individual to provide evidence for what they say, have them acknowlege at least one part of your evidence as being such while refusing to give evidence to you, and then angrily accusing you of not providing evidence previously even though they already in fact acknowledged part of it. 🙂

Interesting day huh?


If you have evil vs evil (and yes Trump is deeply, DEEPLY evil) then either I am writing in someone or not voting. It’s that simple.


You’re wrong on that one. I said the same thing as liberty the other day.

If the idea is that you are picking the lesser of two evils, then you are admitting both choices are evil. The state where I am in, and the machines we vote on make it very difficult(Try impossibly aggravating) to write in a candidate on them. If it was I’d probably still be going in 2020, but having to write in a lot of names. I wont vote for someone who will openly betray me.


@wjd Tell you what, Why don’t you explain Trumps betrayal of his campaign promises on the second amendment, his willingness to violate the Bill of rights and due process at will, his insistence that Anti second amendment nominees are the only options for pro Second amendment Senators to approve. If you can do that with a straight face, and explain why a president who will willingly violate our Constitution is not evil without having to use the excuse “But the dems!”, then perhaps you may have a case. Until then, we are not demanding that you not vote for him,… Read more »


Try Bump stocks, his nominations for people who support infringements on the second amendment(Barr and Canterbury being two examples), his support and INSISTANCE for Red Flag laws(Including his actions, which have been to pressure hold outs to work with those trying to implement such actions)

He’s not pro 2A. If he is willing to violate the Bill of Rights he is not good, even if he is not as bad as Warren. If that is what you want to vote for go ahead, but we also have a right to not vote for him.


Judging based on his actions, not his words. and his actions have shown he does not respect the second amendment as written. Present your evidence if you have proof to the contrary.


Then if you were so confidant, why did you feel the need to attack people who plan to do just that without presenting evidence?

If it really didn’t matter to you, why try to intimidate or shame someone for disagreeing especially when they can cite examples but you have provided…. None?


@wjd So you cant even give a reason why you think it qualifies as being idiotic? Is your opinion so vapid that it just exists without being formed by any standard or stimulus? And who was it that tried to say “Just because you want to claim it is so, doesn’t make it so”? Without evidence that position becomes simple hypocrisy. Easy solution. “Hey Liberty, you have a right to choose who you vote for, but I disagree with you. Best of luck.” When you sent me the heads up the other day, did you pay attention to what I… Read more »


Wow, he didn’t even respond to you and you think insulting him without providing any evidence for your reasoning in disagreement will change his mind?

Want to explain when you started supporting fascism, where other people no longer have a right to think or speak independently without your approval?


Still no evidence huh? I’m sure Liberty can defend their own position. Right now I’m defending the constitution, in particular 1st amendment rights such as speech and association. You want to call him a moron, but wont offer evidence.

So, would you answer the question? Why do you think it is ok to try and shame someone into silence for stating how they plan to exercise their own rights?


Still no evidence……

So what about his statement was “Moronic”? Was it the idea that he doesn’t like that Donald Trump betrays liberty’s principles on the constitution, that he would not vote for someone who would violate the Constitution?

Enlighten us how someone saying how they choose to exercise their rights without telling anyone else how to do the same is “Moronic”. Make your case.


@wjd That’s why I presented evidence along with what I wrote, instead of just trying to intimidate you into silence by calling you an idiot. How many times have I acknowledged your first amendment rights so far? Each time I point out you have the right to support whoever you want to support. When you baselessly attack someone to try and shut them up though, your rights don’t overrule his rights. The rule is free speech is protected as long as it is true when it comes to claims about another person. It’s why I asked you to provide evidence,… Read more »


So the idea that someone has courage enough to stand up and say they will not vote for your candidate doesn’t incite you to try and talk down to them without being able to say what in their comment you find idiotic? Not one thing you can point to?


Ok so where is your evidence that the evidence I presented against Trump is opinion? I was able to point to actions he has taken which support what I said. Why have you avoided doing the same?

And seriously, saying “One last thing” as if that ends this? Provide your evidence, seriously. 🙂


So now you think you have a right to dictate how much time someone spends online or how fast they must respond to you before being silenced by labeling them a liberal without providing proof?

Old Ch.E.

As a sidebar to my earlier tirade I would like to point out that in the mid 60s is when civics and the constitutions, state and national, were no longer school subjects required of the students. We had been required to spend one year on state and federal constitutions and laws, citizenship, etc. in my day.


Excellent article that should be required reading in the public school system.


So the idea that you think children need to be learning is abandonment of principles, and continual compromise on what are supposed to be constitutionally protected liberties for the idiotic idea of us vs them tribalism? Would you like to enlighten the rest of us as to why you think this is any way good?


To be blunt… how are gun owners NOT united?? There are 120-150 MILLION law-abiding gun owners. Yet 2018 saw only 357 “mass-shooting” deaths? That alone speaks to our respect for life, liberty and law. In contrast 2018 saw just under 11,000 deaths related to driving while intoxicated. The problem isnt in the people… it is in the blatant lies and sensationalism of the left and their media counterparts.

Charlie Foxtrot

“To be blunt… how are gun owners NOT united??” Gun owners are certainly not united! The NRA and President Trump supported a bump stock ban that split American gun owners into those that support it, those that don’t care or have no clue, and those that oppose it! The NRA and President Trump also supported red flag laws, dividing American gun owners even further. Then we have the Fudds that are OK with an assault weapon ban and that want mandatory licensing and training for anyone carrying or even owning a firearm. Also, when it comes to repealing gun laws,… Read more »


@AnotherLEO Charlie is on the right vein.. Gun owners are not united because many who want to say the believe in the Second Amendment betray it on a routine basis. For lack of a better analogy, they are that guy in the Dr Scholes commercials who walks up to the group and says “hey, I’m Jell-ing”, while everyone else is looking at the idiot who just walked into their midst. The idiot tries to talk the talk, but they don’t walk the walk. Anyone who steps out and tries to sell my rights down the river is no ally of… Read more »


Gun owners may be ardent, but they’re definitely not united. There are between 100 million and 150 million of us. How many are members of pro Second Amendment organizations? 6 million? Cubs fans are more organized than gun owners.


357 mass shootings is OK ?




Let me put LEO’s post in another perspective for you.

With the media claiming over 200 mass shootings per year, 357 comes out to 1.75 deaths roughly(per the media’s numbers) for each. In addition to that, if you look at the circumstances behind each of those 357, the number drops drastically for what actually qualifies. That was why that 357 was in quotation marks. It’s not that complicated.

Deplorable Bill

I wonder just how many law abiding gun owners committed a mass shooting?
It’s not the tool, it’s not the righteous people that murder, it’s those who are and do evil. Evil becomes empowered whey the prey is disarmed. Surrender your weapons at your (and the nations) peril. Arm up, carry on.

Rock R

First of all if you don’t vote, it is a vote for gun control and the Democrat way of socialism… You are not going to change the democrat mass herd opinion… If you vote for Trump, there is still a chance he will listen, especially if we get him away from the NRA leadership… I really think most of the problem is the NRA leadership that Trump thinks he can get the most support from or maybe a new suit…. How about a united GOP, SAF and others confronting Trump with facts not NRA selling us down the river BS… Read more »


@Rock R So you think people who stick to their principles, who refuse to compromise on the Second Amendment can be shamed into voting the way you say with a baseless and idiotic statement like that? Perhaps you would like to explain why voting for an R “To defend our rights!” has gotten us traitors like Rubio, Kasich, Flake, and countless other do nothings and traitors who only seem to grow a spine when they are out of power… Perhaps you can explain why that very plan you are supporting has failed us continually for the last 30 years and… Read more »


The rabid right and the rabid left are one as unbalanced as the other. Ones like Tetejaun and Kamel Toe prove it every day. Just two different sides of the same crazy coin. That’s why so many cannot stand truth. Truth is the sane balancing point in the middle. The bookends on the two extremes, being mentally unbalanced, cannot conceive of the idea that balance even exists. So they pick on any truth the hear, and do what they’ve always done, attempt to destroy the messenger As frustrating as this is, it’s just the separating of the wheat from the… Read more »


@Knute Knute Yep. It’s just another form of group think. 2 examples First is the man who says “If you own guns and wont accept gun control, you are a supporter of Child murder!” Crazy right. Second is the man who says “If you don’t vote republican even though the candidate is going to betray you, then you are automatically voting for socialism and communism.” What is the difference between the two? The sad truth is that even people like Rock R know the answer, that there is no difference, the action is the same. They just can’t bring themselves… Read more »

Old Ch.E.

Sorry it looks like i pasted twice.

Old Ch.E.

I am possibly older than many of you here. I had a BS in Chemical Engineering and was in graduate school when the Feds invaded the public school system. Johnson was president and they started offering $$ to schools to do it their way. This was how they planned to raise generations of majority democrats. We had everybody bats, everybody gets a trophy. This preceded gender identity, constitutional ignorance and disregard and now Antifa and Snowflakes but they are getting what they paid for lots and lots of democrat, liberal, voters. We are going to be in trouble as long… Read more »


@Old Ch.E.
I’m at the opposite end from you. I started here in my mid 20’s, and am now in my early 30’s. I’m younger than most of the people here, but when it comes down to my views I belong back in the 1780’s.

Its a shame that individual responsibility and respect for rights got sent down the river long ago, predating even Johnson.

I do hope you stay around kicking long enough to impart some wisdom onto those who need it, in spite of the very few who might take it to heart.



The “Progressive” movement (just another term they have hijacked) has been cultivated in our public education system for a couple of generations now. The result is what you now see. Up is down, left is right, male is female. Every day is opposite day. And we face a bumper crop of mush-headed voters that can’t even ponder the fact that they are completely brainwashed.

Wild Bill

, Yeah, “Progressive” ! Who doesn’t want to be progressive?


Ooooh… oooh! Me! I don’t want to be “progressive.”

I prefer to be sane, thank you very much.


@WB – I support progress. Just not what get’s sold as progress by “Progressives”.


Since “con” is the opposite of “pro”, is Congress the opposite of progress? 🙂

Wild Bill

@Finnky, My point was that progressive sounds good so who doesn’t want to be progressive. We all know that it is just a cover story.


What a bunch of brainwashed yahoos you are!

Look around, get involved with your community.


Trump just argued last week that he was upset that he had to fight the Democrats more on the fraudulent Impeachment crap and not trying to Pass gun control laws.

How do gun owners. the 2nd Amendment and the Bill Of Rights win here again?

Rock R

Maybe Trump meant the Democrats where messing with him instead of trying to pass gun control… Who knows and you have to realize he says things one day and is totally against them the next…. People say he has taken a stand on this or that and next you know it is totally different the next time you hear about it… I am not sure he even knows what he is saying sometimes… Plus you have to take into consideration the media and democrats try to distort his every word … Wait till next week there will be a brand… Read more »


The reason why I think he is serious about it, is because he’s has been saying this for the last two years. Plus, I saw Eric and Ivanka Trump’s own Tweets pushing for Red Flag Gun Confiscation Laws and UBC. This isn’t going away. The question I have, even if he waits until after the election, with no reelection to worry about, how many guns laws will he pass through? Gun owners are screwed either way in the years to come.

Rock R

I agree with you, gun control is never going away… Red Flag laws are going to be fought over for a long time, too…. The only hope I see is trying to get trough to Trump, which is going to be no easy task, or that Pence convinces Trump to back off so he has a chance to follow Trump…. The red flag laws I see proposed seem to let the States decide for themselves, which may be a few States saving grace…. At this point I would not make any bets either way…..


Even at the state level though it is a violation of the Constitution. The states do not have that authority as signatories to the Constitution, they are bound by article 6 section 2.

The problem we have now is a republican party which refuses to fight for that because they want control just as much as the idiots in the Democrat party.


We, the USA needs to pay our fair share, that is no more then any other country. But get the US out of the UN, and the UN out of the US.

Wild Bill

@Silk, because the U.N. is mostly against us; and because the UN is the source of potential treaties that would impact our 2nd Amendment rights; and because the U.N. staffs are mostly spies; and because the USA has paid more than any other nation for many years our share should be zero. As you write, ” …our fair share, that is no more then any other country.” Many countries pay zero, so our fair share is zero. Many countries do not even pay their parking tickets when they park illegally and snarl traffic. Because what is paid to the UN… Read more »


I just woke up. It all makes sense now. Never thought it could happen to this country but it has. We are in dangerous times indeed

Green Mtn. Boy

The democRats are the domestic enemy the founders warned of,will the majority of the population realize this before it is too late,the 64,00.00 question.

Wild Man

Support the 28th Amendment – “The right of the people to keep and eat Hot Peppers, shall not be infringed.”
But the liberal anti-pepper snowflakes will parse that amendment – you can have a jalapeno, but not a Carolina Reaper…or any pepper that looks like one.
They will also say “Have you seen how many seeds are in those things? Why does anybody need a high capacity pepper?”


But those peppers are so heavy


Will, right on !


I love how the pair of Jackwagons that wrote this article added in “Support the GOA” in an attempt to get GOA members to ignore violations of the Second Amendment the Republican Party and NRA have worked on hand in hand. As if doing so would magicly grant them our support.


Gotta love the at least 3 people who gave you a negative vote who also didn’t have the balls to voice their own opinion on that one. Its amazing how they just push that little hand sign and think “Boy, that’s sticking it to em”.

Here’s at least one thumbs up for you


And here’s another. Don’t let WLPs trained seals get you down. Its not like they have a brain or anything. They just clap and honk when they see the fish… 🙂


Okay…. So much to say, but not very many polite ways to say it. Lets start by quoting the authors and explain from there. “Even if our President signs a compromise bill, it will be as nothing to what the Democrats will pass the next cycle, if we weaken the Republican party and help the Democrats win.” First things first, the two authors need to take the horse they road in on and go screw themselves. It does not matter if a car goes off a cliff into a one mile deep gorge whether it is going 25 miles an… Read more »


“Alan J Chwick and Joanne D Eisen, you pair of snot nosed sniveling little cowards…. ” Well – we just had to resort to a little sophomoric name calling didn’t we. When the democrats are sitting in the White House and have gotten there by just a few votes I’ll be remembering people like you. I have NOT voted for a Republican president since George junior, however, I HAVE voted AGAINST every democrat. Some times the lesser of two evils is the best you can do. And YES they are all traitors. Are you one of those idiots who welcome… Read more »

Wild Bill

, Easy brother. We are all in this together. Although, I admit his comment was rather less analytical than usual.


@WB; I’ll apologize for my rather rude response and I have no knowledge of his background and demographics. That said – what is the alternative that he is offering? Do we vote for no one? That is a 2 vote loss to the socialist agenda. Is the alternative a speedy rush to armed conflict? If you’ve ever been on the sharp end of the stick you’ll not rush to this position. Does anyone remember the videos of the conflict in Kosovo? Is that what is wished here? If not the ballot box the last resort is the bullet box. I… Read more »


@TLS No apologies necessary, if you say something, it should be something you mean from the bottom of your soul. Yes, I was not polite to the authors. However I would like to ask you a question. How many years have we been taking the lesser of two evils and just voting for the other guy? Where has it gotten us? The only major political win on the second amendment front anyone can point to is the fact that they “let” the brady bill of 1994 sunset. That wasn’t even a win, it was a tie by waiting out the… Read more »


I despise some of Trumps actions, however, he has done more for this country than the last 5 presidents. I grit my teeth and say that as I remember the “BUMP BAN” and “Suppressors – I just don’t like them!.” I’ve told everyone who’ll listen that he’d best watch his step or he’ll be losing “gunvotes” that he can’t afford to lose. Like Rev – I hate this crap. I just can’t see where doing nothing helps.


@TR – Perhaps instead of passively sitting out elections and suggesting that others do so as well, you should suggest and act in the opposite manner. I agree we see many atrocious candidates from both parties. Step back and think about they got there. Lowest level of involvement should include voting in primaries instead of just general elections. Remember fewer people vote in the primaries, so your vote carries considerably more weight than it does in general election. Better yet, get involved in local politics and pre-primary party politics. Primary candidates may seem to appear from nowhere, but they are… Read more »


@Finnky Trust me, I’m not “Passively” sitting out anything. The stance I have taken is not popular, yet I am not hiding from it or any blowback that comes my way. I’m fighting through to the end while other people are waving the white flag and heading into camp. Now just what would happen to the republican party if there were more people like me? Think maybe they would make themselves more accountable, or at the very least be forced to come along with us even kicking and screaming? I have never ceded my rights to anyone, and I will… Read more »


Rev: You are right about what you would like to really say, but if you are not POLITICALLY CORRECT, I have found that it is getting harder to get it on line, and printed!!!!!!!!!! The only thing that I don’t go for is that you will sit home and not vote, I find this as something that as the people did in our life time have done to often and all of the parties take to their advantage, business as usual, this is how it has happened, get active and gt out and vote, or we can sit back and… Read more »


@willyd I’ve never claimed to be politically correct. That’s why I’ve been enemy numuro uno for people like GWD and OCH, its why tetejaun cant face me. I’ll say the truth no matter how harsh it is, and I’m not afraid to rebuke friends when they are in the wrong. I am as I have always been here. Consistent. For one, I won’t be complaining about how I lost if Trump loses in 2020. Same as if I lived in florida and Rubio loses. Anyone who is a direct threat to my rights gets no different treatment whether they have… Read more »


Thumbs up from me. Tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. That’s what got me banned on TTAG, and now its better over here anyway. The truth just works, even though many can’t face it.


Funny how everybody wants to cheer for the truth when its in their favor, but when it casts its gaze upon them they want nothing to do with it.

Kinda like for all the negative detractors I had, most do not have replies for the responses I return to them, and fewer yet have the balls to speak up and be counted. 🙂

Wild Bill

@Rev, I just “up clicked” you! But it is a long day and I have another long one tomorrow, so I can not add a long explanation.


@Wild Bill

I understand. I just got home at 8:37 tonight, so I feel the same. Here’s to tomorrow proceeding smoothly for you.

Greg K

Colorful! There’s a lot of truth in there. Hate to say it, but it’s not the flight; it’s the landing that counts. I, like you, didn’t vote for this president, or any Anti-Constitutional scum. It’s all about principles. However, if there was a Libertarian just waiting to be built, it may be Trump. Consider this; He’s being “Red Flagged” no different than if someone pulled this crap on one of us for guns. Someone should get in his ear. Is it you? Is it me? Who cares, just someone! It’s a place to start…you know deep in your heart that… Read more »


@Greg K I appreciate the thought you put into your comment Greg, and for what its worth your still someone I consider to be a friend even though I had to call you out over the 14th amendment issue a while back.. I’m not a libertarian. I sympathize with them, but they are still too far left for my taste. I’m a straight up Constitutionalist. Going to be until the day I die. That being said, here is the problem I see with “Building” Donald trump. When you want to build something, you need a good foundation. In the case… Read more »

Greg K

@Revelator Went to bed last night thinking, “Revelator is going to tell me that Trump’s foundation disallows him from being “built.” You’re right! To be sure, DJT could never be a Constitutionalist, but he could possibly be a tolerable Libertarian, maybe…the problem is, he exhibits attributes of 2 out of 3 of the “Dark Triad.” As do most Politicians. About the 14th; I never one time ADVOCATED circumventing the 14th, I was pointing out that the Government is looking for the impetus to circumvent it. Bill characterized me as saying that, and you ran with it. There’s nothing I could… Read more »


@Greg K I wouldn’t say he couldn’t be built, I just don’t think there is any truth to hold him there once you get him to that spot. As I described him earlier, he is a wrecking ball (Funny, I heard a radio host use the same description of him today). It means he is going to be dangerous both ways, and also you have no idea if he is going to bounce off in an unexpected direction. That has made him dangerous to the left, but it also means he has no anchor points, nothing to morally bind him… Read more »

Greg K

Oh, I don’t mind at all Rev…It’s funny you mentioned Communication because I was confused about the whole series of events, so I contacted a friend from college that is a Communications Graduate from WSU. That was clear back when I quit even trying to clear it up. Here’s what she said. My original statement was murky, but she understood the content fine, and that it was, in fact mischaracterized by Bill, because I kept carrying it on. She gave great advise for the future. I gave him the opening and he drove a truck through it. Bottom line Rev,… Read more »

Greg K

PS, I don’t care as much about where we were as where we’re going.

Wild Bill

, Mighty smarmy and ingratiating conversation you have going. As to being wrong on the law: I’m not wrong just because you say so. As I recall, you pronounced on a relatively basic area of Constitutional law, and many people found you incorrect.
You don’t use the language or concepts of accepted Constitutional analysis. I think that you have no formal legal training and that is why you get things wrong. I don’t think that you can even define law.
Is this slippery infiltrator a paid troll or is he self aggrandizing?

Greg K

It’s called imminent Harm…go to Cornell Law and look it up. Even this article is May 2018. Long before the law you told me I was stupid about, went into effect in July 2019. Not only was I correct about Washington, but the very California Statute you were hung up on.
YOU’re WRONG! Admit it and move on Bill


@Greg K What Bill said back then was not wrong, as the point he caught you on was a direct reading of the 14th amendment. Unless you are referring to a different instance, in which I would ask you to cite that here. That article is on a lawsuit, though not one that would be connected to the original argument. The original argument and where the last time came to a halt was the discussion on the NDAA(2012 standards if I remember right), to which Wild Bill pointed out that acts of congress may not overrule the Constitution, and that… Read more »

Greg K

Don’t have to think about it…You are conflate 2 of our arguments without knowing the context. There’s no way you could have known…first things first. When I said it won’t really matter what your rights are on the 14th Amendment, here’s why. In 2012 they created an “Indefinite Detention” section. It suspends Habeas Corpus for Defined “Terrorists.” This gets to the heart of what my original statement was; “we do not want to declare ANTIFA terrorists, because it will just be a matter of time before the government declares anyone they disagree with a “Terrorist,” and under the NDAA ushers… Read more »

Greg K

Sent you a big long explanation, but it looks like the moderators dumped it so here is the simple version.
Again you jumped in not understanding the full context of an old disagreement.


@Wild Bill Bill, I understand what is going on is a personality clash on this one. What you just did was not called for. So I want to explain to you in a clearer way what Greg just admitted to. “I opened the door and Wild Bill drove the truck right through.” What he just connected that statement to was the fact that his original statements intent was not clearly defined, and when you pushed him on it he got rattled and thus did things that put him in the position he wound up in. DONT TURN AROUND AND DO… Read more »


Peace through disarmament would have had to start before the invention of guns and gun powder. Still sticks and rocks would be what the progressives would be trying to ban. In other words, humans will always have weapons to defend themselves against wrong doers. Liberals, get over it and go hide in your basement.

Charlie Foxtrot

Peace through disarmament is a fallacy proven by the mass murders of the 20th century. The balance of powers through equal armament is what this country was founded on. Those that seek to use the “government as an instrument of good” to push their political beliefs down the throat of everyone else fear an armed populace. The concept of using the “government as an instrument of good” has no party affiliation! There are supporters of the police state in both major parties. That is why it is so hard to advance gun rights!

Autsin Miller III

Heard on the radio today that England had 41,000 knife attacks last year. That disarmament is working great for them isn’t it?

Charlie Foxtrot

43,516 knife crimes in the 12 months ending March 2019, and rising:


Not to mention the acid attacks and brutal rape by hoards of Muslims!


@CF – Much as I’d like to beat on UK, charts you linked in don’t really support our argument. Chart of most interest is knife homicides, showing under 300 per year. Best we can do with that is to demonstrate that parts of our society are inherently more violent – thus our rate of homicide using firearms is due to societal issues rather than firearms. Oh yeah – guess that is what we’ve been arguing all along. Second argument based on our higher overall violence rate, is that it strongly justifies a higher level of paranoia and preparation for self… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot

I guess you have not been to the UK recently or at all. You have no right to carry any self defense tool in the UK, including anything that wasn’t originally designed for but could possibly be used for self defense. The lower homicide rate does not really matter if my face gets slashed during a robbery, because I can not effectively defend myself. In the UK, the only ones disarmed are the law abiding subjects, everyone else, the government and the criminals, are armed. As for the homicide rate in the US vs. the UK, drug crimes in the… Read more »

Rock R

Yes and now they are trying to ban them as well …


You have violent hate groups like bamn and antifa that have admitted they’re arming up to help enforce gun control and confiscation.

Now picture a group of young white adults decked in black and red clothing with communist symbols attempting to your take your weapons under a false guise of combating “hate”.


They would make great targets….. it would be a lot of fun… more fun than Kent State.

Rock R

First, why do you think those groups are all “young white adults ????” I have seen many different nationalities in pictures of those groups …. Second of all, under what authority would thugs off the street have any right to try to take any guns away from anyone or do any law enforcement action ???? They can try anything they want under any guise, hate or not and will be treated at my door as the thugs they are … Also since I VOTE and know my local officials I believe they would be there to help me as I… Read more »


For those unfamiliar with WROL or mobs/vigilantes, just because they don’t have authority does not mean they don’t take action into their own hands.

Also, while many nationalities are part of Antifa, the majority is made up of white, liberal, hipster college students. While pointing that fact out may be unpopular, and may be a generalization as well, the simple fact remains that since whites are the largest ethnic group in the country then statistically they will also be the dominant number in any group which is not defined by race by nature (Such as BLM or La Raza)


Wild Bill.

Thank you for your support on my first post here. You are right about my mentioning people being killed in the cities. I forgot to mention innocent people which there are sometimes in these urban shootings. Mostly it’s drug dealers and gang members who are shooting at each other for many reasons,

Charlie Foxtrot

When the choice is between Stalin and Mao, we should clearly vote for the lesser evil. Let that sink in for a moment before you comment with yet another diatribe. Not voting was a common way to protest the lack of choice in communist countries, like East Germany, requiring the communist governments in these countries to falsify voting records. Not voting does not mean not fighting for rights! After all, the Berlin Wall and those communist countries don’t exist anymore. How did that happen? People stopped just voting for the lesser evil and fought for their rights! Voting for President… Read more »


Actually only Trump has the power to weaken Trump with gun owners. It is disingenuous to indicate gun owners would weaken Trump when he would be the one signing red flag or other infringements. We lose the Second amendment ONLY if we fail to use it.


A very well written article and to the point on the state of the 2A if a democrat is elected president in 2020. All of the presidential candidates in the televised debates have made known their intentions towards the Second Amendment and legal gun owners. Beto O’Rourke said exactly what the democrats want to do on national television so “the cat is out of the bag” so to speak. That is something we on the pro gun side have known about for a very long time. Sadly there has been no movement to legally remove these anti gun pols from… Read more »

Wild Bill

@jmb, I agree with you that it is sad that these anti gun politicians are not removed. I disagree with you when you write that, “… Sadly there are still people being killed daily in the cities…” Nasty people killing each other with what ever means that they choose does not make me sad.

Dave in Fairfax

WB, I agree with Vim and Vigor. If they would constrain themselves to targeting each other, I’d chip in for ammo.

Wild Bill

, I think that Natchez is having a sale!