Brady Organization Sues KCI and KCI USA Over 100-Round Drum Magazines

Brady Organization Sues KCI and KCI USA Over 100-Round Drum Magazines.
Brady Organization Sues KCI and KCI USA Over 100-Round Drum Magazines.

LAS VEGAS, NV-(Ammoland.com)- The anti-gun Brady Organization is funding a Nevada lawsuit against the Korean company Kyung Chang Industry Co. LTD (KCI) and KCI USA over the company’s magazines.

The lawsuit stems from an August 2019 mass murder that took place in Dayton, Ohio. In that mass murder, a far-leftist killer murdered nine people and injured 17 others before being killed by police. The killer used a KCI magazine and an AR-15 style pistol. Since the magazine held more than ten rounds, the families claim it made the shooter “deadlier,” and KCI USA was negligent for selling the magazines.

The lawsuit starts by quoting Bill Ruger’s infamous statement that “no honest man needs more than ten rounds” and that he “never intended for simple civilians” to have his “20- or 30-round magazines….”

Bill Ruger retired from the company he helped found in 2000. Since that time, Sturm, Ruger & Company have continued to produce AR15s and market 30-round magazines to the public, splitting from the ideas of Bill Ruger. The company currently supports the right of all Americans to own magazines of any size. The complaint doesn’t mention the company’s current stance on magazines.

The target of the lawsuit is KCI for producing and selling 100-round drum magazines.

The plaintiffs’ lawyers argue that these magazines do not have a legit purpose for hunting or self-defense. It claims that the only purpose anyone would buy a 100-round drum magazine is to commit a mass killing. Nowhere in the complaint does it mention that the right to bear arms and the Second Amendment does not have to do with hunting or self-defense. It was about being able to defend against a tyrannical government.

The case makes an emotional argument by calling the magazine an “instrument of slaughter” and says that KCI needed the Dayton killer to “accomplish their mission-to make as much money as possible.” The argument is not back up by the evidence. The lawsuit calls KCI reckless for selling the magazines. It highlights that the Dayton killer fired 41 rounds. It insinuates that without the drum magazine that the death toll would have been lower. There is no scientific data that backs up that claim.

The suit claims that the company’s magazines are “unreasonably dangerous firearms accessories which are designed to enable unlawful mass shootings like the attack when sold to civilians.” The lawyers argue the only people in the “civilian market who need LCMs are mass killers.” Out of the millions of magazines sold that hold more than ten rounds, only a fraction has been used in crimes. AmmoLand News has only been able to locate three cases where a mass killer used a 100-round drum, and in one case, the drum magazine caused the firearm to jam.

The plaintiffs also claim that the defendants should have exercised the “highest degree of reasonable care.” This argument centers on the Brady Organization’s belief that KCI’s products don’t benefit lawful gun owners. It claims that KCI needed to have protocols that prevented their magazines from falling into the hands of mass murders. It doesn’t mention background checks, but that seems to be insinuated in the case.

The plaintiffs also claim that KCI knew that selling their products would “result in a mass shooting.” Some gun-rights activists point out that this argument is like saying that Ford shouldn’t sell cars because someone might drink and drive. It shifts the blame from the actual criminal to a tool that the murderer used. Gun rights activists point out that hammers have a higher chance of being used in murder than a 100-round drum. They ask if the Brady Organization is going to start suing Craftsmen.

The lawyers argue that KCI USA “directly and foreseeably channeled the magazine to the shooter.” They attack KCI USA under this argument for producing the 100-round drum magazine. It also attacks KCI USA because its products can be purchased online, and KCI USA has a button that helps people find websites that sell its magazines.

The lawyers for the plaintiffs have asked the court to award its clients monetary damages and attorney’s fees. They also ask the court for an injunction against KCI USA to prevent the company from selling its 100-round magazine.

There is no court date set. KCI and KCI USA did not respond to AmmoLand’s request for comment.


About John Crump

John is a NRA instructor and a constitutional activist. John has written about firearms, interviewed people of all walks of life, and on the Constitution. John lives in Northern Virginia with his wife and sons and can be followed on Twitter at @crumpyss, or at www.crumpy.com.

John Crump

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Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago

“Bill Ruger retired from the co he helped found in 2000. Since then the co has sold AR15s & 30-round mags to the public, splitting from the ideas of Bill Ruger…The co supports the right of all Americans to own any size mags. The complaint doesn’t mention its current stance.”

Don’t complain about full disclosure when you omit key things:

When 2A-traitor Ruger retired, his right-hand gun-grabbing industry whore Sanetti took over, and the company continued promoting gun control, such as providing a platform after Sandy Hook to lobby congress to expand prohibited personhood.

Last edited 1 month ago by Russn8r
Orion
Orion
1 month ago

while i support KCI in this frivolous lawsuit, their copy of the Beta C drum leaves much to be desired.
even when properly dusted with graphite before loading, it’s rare to get one to go the full 100 on semi without failing. and you can forget about it on FA….. it just aint happening.

KC
KC
1 month ago

If only there had been a law in Ohio prohibiting the use of 100 round mags, the shooting never would have happened. Oh wait, this is a law in Ohio that prohibits those mags. I guess that means there is nothing to see here since that law exists and we know no criminal would break an anti-gun law. SMH

Roland T. Gunner
Roland T. Gunner
1 month ago

Time for pro 2A organizations to start suing groups like Brady into bankruptcy and oblivion.

james
james
1 month ago

How about a belt fed AR pistol?

james
james
1 month ago

The sum of the parts is equal to the whole. Ten magazines with ten round capacity, or five magazines with 20 round capacity or one 100 round magazine makes no difference.

Watch the video “Sherriff’s demo of how magazine size makes very little difference”

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  james

Excellent. How about 1-round magazines?

StLPro2A
StLPro2A
1 month ago

The fact that they want to take them away is all one needs to realize how much we need them. ‘Nuf said. Conversation over.

Tank
Tank
1 month ago
Reply to  StLPro2A

100%

Wass
Wass
1 month ago

Hey, guys, I agree with all the examples justifying civilian ownership of gun magazines, regardless capacity. But the bottom line is, the scumbags committing the mass murders are usually poor zhlubs. Not only are they often dead; their assets couldn’t pay for a liar for hire’s three hours billing time. Too, plaintiffs, lawyers, media and, of course pols, want to make major political hay. Bingo! The “deep pockets” of the evil, capitalist gun industry. We’re seeing this kind of litigation very often nowadays, where responsible parties, are not held as accountable by the legal industry as much as providers of… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Wass
RB
RB
1 month ago

Theres no purpose in building cars that can go 2 to 3 times the speed limit. So there should be a lawsuit vs car manufacturers then for building cars that exceed the speed limit. Oh wait, you can’t sue them because its the drivers fault. Hmm?!

DonP
DonP
1 month ago

“The plaintiffs’ lawyers argue that these magazines do not have a legit purpose for hunting or self-defense.”

Of course there are legitimate purposes and I have examples.

Hunting: wild pigs is the best example.

Self defense: anytime ANTIFA and/or BLM (or any other violent leftist group) decide to have a “mostly peaceful protest”. Need a firsthand witness? Just ask any of the “Roof Koreans” who defended themselves and their businesses during the Rodney King riot and other L.A. riots back in ‘92. Not the same perpetrators but all valid examples.

Tionico
Tionico
1 month ago
Reply to  DonP

Yep. Take a wander out into the high plains farmlands in eastern Oregon and Washington. Sage rats are a real nuisance out there. I’ve known guys to head out there, ask the farmer (who is overjoyed SOMEONE will DO SOMETHING about his burgeoning population of the varmints) if he can set up and take care of a few. SOme guys will use a tripod mounted AR patternrifle, and the largest amgazine they can afford. Any rat within about three hundred yards is vulnerable to the hunter. Large riflescops are useful in this endeavour. So yes “hunting” and pest control are… Read more »

Roland T. Gunner
Roland T. Gunner
1 month ago
Reply to  Tionico

“Gummit”? Ain’t there a “n” in there somewhere?

uncle dudley
uncle dudley
1 month ago

I think this lawsuit is an example of a frivolous suit against the makers of the magazine/drum, and it’s time the court finds for the defendant and rule that Brady pay all costs of the defendant to defend it.
Brady isn’t representing a victim, they didn’t file suit in the state where it happened and the states and federal government got their share of the sales tax paid on the products therefore they found the item to be legal.
Just my opinion.

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
1 month ago
Reply to  uncle dudley

Exactly. I second your opinion.

Tionico
Tionico
1 month ago
Reply to  uncle dudley

Judge should toss it on the grounds that Brady and COmpany l”lack tanding”. Then hit them with ALL costs incurred to deal with this frivolous lawsuit. Now, to ice the cake peorperly, the judge should heavily sanction the attorneys involved for bring a baseless and frivolous lawsuit. Demand their state Bar associaatioins at least put them on probation for five years. Better yet disbar them.

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
1 month ago

Forget those small 100 round drums! Be for real and a man and use a 150 round Armatac Industries SAW drum! I look at a high capacity drum as a way to take care of multiple attackers by laying down suppressive fire…https://www.armatac.com/ And a KCI is not the way to go!

Tionico
Tionico
1 month ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

forget drum mags. Just go belt fed.

Orion
Orion
1 month ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

or bring back the Norinco 120 round beast we had in the 1990s.

Bozz
Bozz
1 month ago

If the Brady Bunch wins this case, it will set another precedent like the Remington 33 million dollar settlement. Then they will start in on Magpul and 30 round mags.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Bozz

Which Remington?

Tank
Tank
1 month ago

The slower observers should now be able see the illuminated path & the agenda clearly. Stack the courts, use corporate wealth accumulated to wear out the opponent by thousand cuts. Roman emperor Fabian (origin of Fabian Socialism btw) used the same tactics in his method of war by attrition. Do Spoon or Sugar manufactures get sued for making people fat or anybody able to sue countries for illegal Wars ? Complete amygdala hi-Jack (emotional brain) of logos reasoning being used here. Cain & Able analogy still applies today as it did in that powerful cryptic metaphor. A natural God blamed… Read more »

APG member
APG member
1 month ago

The Brady Organization: A BUNCH OF ANTI GUN REPUBLICANS!!!!!

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  APG member

I realize you are not being literal, but Kris Brown’s involvement with the Democrat party goes way back (as does the other people working at Brady). That being said, it is interesting to compare Brady’s 12 point plan to the gun control efforts supported by Trump on 2/28/18: https://www.bradyunited.org/the-brady-plan Click the arrow in the bottom right corner to go through the 12 points of their plan. None of the Republicans present at the 2/28/18 conference made an effort to argue against the many gun control proposals being gushed over. Some posters on this site have indicated that Trump said what… Read more »

APG member
APG member
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Don’t know about Kris Brown; the organization is named after Sara and Jim Brady (republicans). My impression of Jim Brady is that he was a Ronald Regan Republican up until he was shot. Now he (sadly) is a puppet for his wife’s pleasure…

Last edited 1 month ago by APG member
Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  APG member

Go on, say it: RINOs.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  APG member

Yes – Jim was an establishment Republican. His wife went full totalitarian after the shooting.

I thought you were referencing the current team – they are a bunch of Democrats.

Not that it really matters.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Establishment Republican aka RINO.

APG don’t like that word.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Russn8r

The majority of Republican U.S. legislators and the majority of Republican appointees at the federal level do not act in accordance with the Republican principles I value the most.

When the majority act that way, they are establishment Republicans to me.

My involvement at the county/state level revealed to me that most state party officials were interested in party first, people second, and principles last. They would apply different standards to different people and defend actions that were contrary to Republican principles as long as the person taking those actions was blessed by senior party officials.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

aka RINOs. Majority makes no difference.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Russn8r

It does to me.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Your excessive fastidiousness helps Undocumented Democrats & Fascists steal the honorable title “Republican”. They’re RINOs.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Russn8r

No – power hungry politicians and party offiicals who count on an uninformed electorate have made the brand largely meaningless.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

With your help. You’re the only loyal American I’ve met who wants to declare surrender and cede the brand. All the rest recognize them as RINOs.

Last edited 1 month ago by Russn8r
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Russn8r

I don’t mind that you call them RINOs.

Establishment Republicans is more descriptive to me.

I met too many people who argued for principles that were contrary to the Republican prinicples I value who would call certain politicians “RINOs” and I would ask them what they are. The response was typically disbelief that they would be compared to someone they considered a “RINO.” The term just got played out.

I find discussions related to issues more interesting.

Your characterization is inaccurate.

Last edited 1 month ago by JSNMGC
APG member
APG member
1 month ago
Reply to  Russn8r

On the contrary RINO aptly describes what the party you idolize has become. I love the term…

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  APG member

I smell LoLibertarian poontang.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  APG member

Go on, say it: RINOs.

Last edited 1 month ago by Russn8r
YourTruth
YourTruth
1 month ago

#liberalillness

Dubi Loo
Dubi Loo
1 month ago

Thanks Remington

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Dubi Loo

Which Remington?

Dave Workman’s poor reporting has led a bunch of half-wits (at least one of whom with a Poli-Sci degree) to incorrectly conclude that there is a corporation called Remington that makes ammo and is run by MBAs who are only interested in money and that offered this settlement and if only veterans were running this imaginary corporation they wouldn’t be cowardly and they would fight.

Wouldn’t it be interesting to read about what really happened?

Beobear
Beobear
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Everyone in this conversation is obviously referring to Remington Arms, the company who settled for 33 million rather than fighting a frivolous lawsuit thus paving the street to more of the same.

The article I read on here clearly differentiated Remington Arms and Remington Ammo.

Last edited 1 month ago by Beobear
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Beobear

That is not at all obvious.

Also, the entities that, together, made the offer are: Remington Arms Co. LLC and Remington Outdoors Co. Inc.

Do you know what those entities are producing and selling?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Beobear

“The article I read on here clearly differentiated Remington Arms and Remington Ammo.” Could you provide a quote? Again, “Remington Ammo” is not an independent entity – it is a brand. With respect to what “Remington” used to produce, maybe Dave Workman could post another article that describes what each of these entities produces today: Remington Arms Co. LLC Remington Outdoors Co. Inc. Vista Outdoor Inc. Roundhill Group LLC Sierra Bullets LLC Sturm, Ruger, & Co. Franklin Armory Sportsman’s Warehouse Inc. A timeline of events would be helpful. He could also describe the different issues being considered as part of… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by JSNMGC
Vince
Vince
1 month ago

Nothing more than a shakedown of the company to get $$$. It has no merit, just like the optional V8 in your car makes you a killer in the event of an accident.

Commiefornia Sucks
Commiefornia Sucks
1 month ago

Hahahahahaha!!!! Everything about the lawsuit is hilarious and laughable!

Finnky
Finnky
1 month ago

Except legal costs and chilling effects on the industry.

Put me on the jury and I’d be voting for maximum we could award to defendants, to be paid by plantiffs and their lawyers. Bury Brady in debt and bankrupt all their officers.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  Finnky

The grabbers win if you’re the sole righteous vote, but I’ll bet you’d talk 1-2 over. five sixths determines civil verdict unless the parties agree otherwise. So you need 1 more in a jury of 6, 2 more out of 12 etc. It’s the duty of loyal Americans to say whatever it takes, short of perjury, to get on juries for 2A & other liberty cases. “In any civil action the jury shall be instructed that the agreement of five sixths of its members shall be sufficient to render any special or general verdict.” -Gen. Laws of MA Ch 234… Read more »

DDS
DDS
1 month ago

I think I get “Pasteurized cheese style food.”

Ditto for “artificially flavored juice style beverage.”

And then there’s our favorite “military styled semi automatic assault weapon.”

But what the heck does ““highest degree of reasonable care” mean?

Tionico
Tionico
1 month ago
Reply to  DDS

I think I get “Pasteurized cheese style food.”

Velveeta and simlar products cannot even put the word “cheese” on the packaging. I remember when the stuff was called “pasterurised processed cheese”. Now they have to call it “pasteurised proccessed food product”. Truth in labelling can be amuising. but the stuff never did have a drop of dairy product in it.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  Tionico

Unfortunately, truth & disclosure in labeling no longer applies nor is enforced on food, drug & supplement imports. Over 50% of seafood consumed in the US for example is from or processed by ChiComs, mostly undisclosed. e.g., 100% of US front company Trident Seafood is processed by ChiComs. And as I recall much of it is caught off the US by ChiComs.

Phony US firms get away with misleading labels like “distributed by”, “packaged by” [insert “US” front company name].

See something like that, assume it’s ChiCom product, or processed by ChiComs, etc.

Roland T. Gunner
Roland T. Gunner
1 month ago
Reply to  Tionico

Gubmint Cheese!

Henry Bowman
Henry Bowman
1 month ago

Bill Ruger is the proof why FUDDS ought to have their lips permanently glued SHUT. Leftists will use anything that was said 50 years ago to take away people’s liberties today.

I hope an American company starts making the twin-drum-style 100 round mags just to shut up the commies, and keep the supply going. I already have one but maybe I want more 100 round drum mags.

Commiefornia Sucks
Commiefornia Sucks
1 month ago
Reply to  Henry Bowman

Theyre very reliable ive heard.

Roland T. Gunner
Roland T. Gunner
1 month ago

See, I have read, and my understanding is, just the opposite. Even the top option Beta C-mag, when thoroughly tested, was found to be unacceptably unreliable, though better than the Korean offerings.

Orion
Orion
1 month ago

we own several original Beta’s and they have worked great. the early one has seen many thousands of rounds via machine gun meets.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  Orion

Good. Beta cucks should own betas.

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
1 month ago
Reply to  Henry Bowman

Get enough 100 round drums and AR’s to arm your neighbors who didn’t think ahead enough to have one in case of SHTF.

Henry Bowman
Henry Bowman
1 month ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

While I’m all for those who are financially well-off equipping their own neighborhood militias, I’m also opposed to people thinking they don’t need to prep because you’re heavily prepped and they can just come to your place when SHTF…

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  Henry Bowman

That’s why I won’t buy anything by Ruger even today. Still run by appeasers and saboteurs who came up under Ruger & Sanetti. Just a few years ago after a shooting, as I recall, they pushed expansion of NICS, mental health red flag type shit.

buzzsaw
buzzsaw
1 month ago
Reply to  Henry Bowman

There is an American company that makes these. Search for Beta C-mag

https://www.betaco.com/index.asp

Henry Bowman
Henry Bowman
1 month ago
Reply to  buzzsaw

Wow, I thought they went out of business years ago. Thanks, I bookmarked this!

WI Patriot
WI Patriot
1 month ago

“Brady Organization Sues KCI and KCI USA Over 100-Round Drum Magazines.”

To what end…???

Green Mtn. Boy
Green Mtn. Boy
1 month ago
Reply to  WI Patriot

To be good un American anti Constitutional Marxist’s,you asked.

Jaque
Jaque
1 month ago

The communists are crawling out of the sewers knowing the Biden regime will back them up in their quest to deny Americans the rights our government has no lawful authority to suppress. They will find judges that rule that if Americans only have access to a single shot .22 short pistol and a dozen rounds they have not been denied their right to bear arms. They will find a Supreme Court ready and willing to rule guns are dangerous products to human health and regulate guns and ammo like Narcotics. Trumps choices for justices will prove obedient to their deep… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Jaque
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Jaque

Will armed government employees follow orders the way the redcoats did?

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Too many already do.

sacara
sacara
1 month ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Yes, too many already do!
solitaire spider

Commiefornia Sucks
Commiefornia Sucks
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

You betcha.

TheHagFan_74
TheHagFan_74
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

This one will not. I’m prepared to walk if they force the vaccine as well.

J Gibbons
J Gibbons
1 month ago
Reply to  TheHagFan_74

Appreciate your courage and integrity.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  TheHagFan_74

Thanks.

Based on extremely unscientific polling, you are in the minority.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  TheHagFan_74

Please consider staying & using “discretion” to thwart unconstitutional, unconscionable orders.

Tionico
Tionico
1 month ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Nice plan.. but a COurt Mrtial for Insubordintion could go a lng way toward messing up one’s possibilities out on the civilian side of life. Making it clearr WHY you are leaving is a big enough slap in their faces.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  Tionico

I smell LoLibertarian poontang.

It’s not insubordination if done discreetly for God’s sake, any more than letting someone off a traffic ticket is insubordination. If it’s a direct specific order to violate someone’s rights, then resign. If you can use discretion to thwart generalized unconstitutional policy discreetly, then do that. Resigning lets them pack the force with Hessians that much sooner.

That goody-good M.O. is what gets flapping gob patriots voir-dired so the only jurors who make it onto 2A cases are false-authority-worshiping sheep.

Last edited 1 month ago by Russn8r
Roland T. Gunner
Roland T. Gunner
1 month ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Just get you fired.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago

No, the watchword is discretion. Is every cop fired who lets a speeder go? A friend’s place caught fire with many “illegal” guns in it. Blind eye turned, no one fired. Resigning before you really have to leaves the force to cops who will turn the next guy in.

And, to Tionico’s comment, I don’t see how “slapping them in the face” & resigning in loud protest due to unwillingness to follow policies & orders of superior officers ensures a civilian job elsewhere. It sure doesn’t ensure a cop or gvt job elsewhere.

Last edited 1 month ago by Russn8r
Tionico
Tionico
1 month ago
Reply to  TheHagFan_74

Friend of mine in the Guard has made the ame decision. IF they come down to poke or trot, he’ll trot. He’s already looking for “what else to do”.

swmft
swmft
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Im betting a lot will not, more than the government will expect,most police are like the school resource officer at parkland hide when shooting starts and claim to be on winning side after it is over

Commiefornia Sucks
Commiefornia Sucks
1 month ago
Reply to  Jaque

Probably not.

hippybiker
hippybiker
1 month ago
Reply to  Jaque

King George was a Piker compared to these ‘Cork Lickers!!
In retrospect, I guess these miscreants have never heard or, do not understand the term…’Crowd Pleaser.’

Tank
Tank
1 month ago
Reply to  Jaque

Spot on the $$$

Tackleberry
Tackleberry
1 month ago
Reply to  Jaque

The overwhelming preponderance of US military personnel are center-right politically. The last Rand study put conservatives at 75%-85%, with the next 10% straddling the fence. What’s left isn’t enough to keep the lights on let alone conduct operations. While our oath is to the constitution above all else an administration that attempts to use the DoD against their own like-minded people would see the DoD outright turn on that administration and or dissipate back into the population. Installing a few loyal leftist officers at the top does nothing, they’d just be the first expunged from the ranks. So as a… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Tackleberry

It wouldn’t be surprising if 85% of the military personnel (active/national guard/veterans who became enforcers) at Ruby Ridge, Waco, and Katrina were “conservative.”

They still followed orders.

Tackleberry
Tackleberry
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Sure, whatever you say.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Tackleberry

They did follow orders. In fact, some showed a lot of intiative in stepping on the necks of Americans.

Last edited 1 month ago by JSNMGC
Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  Tackleberry

No, no, whatever you say, Dingleberry.

Tackleberry
Tackleberry
1 month ago
Reply to  Tackleberry

To further expound: The officer corps tend to skew a few percentage points further right than the enlisted force. The current DoD is in no way a cross-section of society. The shift right from a near 50/50 began at the close of the Vietnam war and a move to an all-volunteer force. These numbers can be seen consistently in Guard and Reserve forces as well. You can observe the steady shift right in each biannual report to Congress. Dig deeper and you’ll quickly see that majority are also from the middle and upper classes and hail from mostly rural and suburban backgrounds. Less… Read more »

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  Tackleberry

Wishful thinking. In Vietnam, though 50% were “right” as you say, only one officer I know of had the integrity to stand up to the brass and say what was going on. David Hackworth. His reward? They tried to assassinate him twice. The rest put career etc over oath & moral duty, wasting 56,000 KIA, millions physically or mentally maimed, for a “conflict” the brass never tried to win.

Last edited 1 month ago by Russn8r
Roland T. Gunner
Roland T. Gunner
1 month ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Who gave the 2 thumbs down?

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago

Major Dingleberry and his sock puppets, apparently.

Roland T. Gunner
Roland T. Gunner
1 month ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Linebacker II should have been executed in 1965, and we should have followed up and prosecuted a ground invasion. War would have been over in 6 months.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago

Yep, and then some, including 1969. We elected Tricky Dick to win, but he wasn’t much better than LBJ. Had mining Haiphong & bombing Hanoi off limits until it was far too late.

But fighting it to win would’ve required many more officers with the courage & integrity to stand up to the Pentagon & the President. As it was, there was only Hack. He didn’t take the resignation way out. He spoke out & effectively dared them to fire him. They tried to “terminate” him instead, with extreme prejudice, you know, because his methods were “unsound”.

Last edited 1 month ago by Russn8r
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Tackleberry

“Similar studies have shown that the rank and file of the federal police and intel forces tend to follow similar metrics” Your “right/left” view of the world is irrelevant – the above quote is a good example. There have been many examples of the various federal police agencies (where a large percentage of the “operational” members are military veterans) lying, destroying evidence, and ruthlessly reacting to any perceived lack of respect for their perceived authority. They have been backed-up by active military and national guard units. In the three examples mentioned in a prior post, I’m not aware of any… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Tackleberry

“Once you leave urban centers, state, county, and local PDs also move distinctly right.” Unfortunately, when rural state, county, and local PDs (of tiny towns) in “red states” have had the opportunity to do more than talk, they often fail. Wyoming is a good example. All three of those organizations joined Moms Demand Action and Anytown for Gun Safety to defeat a bill that would have prohibited them from cooperating with federal enforcers regarding upcoming federal gun control laws such as registration/banning of semiautomatic rifles. What good is it if they view themselves as “right” and tell their neighbors they… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by JSNMGC
Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  Tackleberry

Get real. The vast majority have already long put career, family etc over oath. They will continue, increasingly, to OBEY. Among thousands of examples, who do you think shot unarmed mother Vicky Weaver’s jaw off at Ruby Ridge while she was holding her baby? Who do you think helped him get away with it scott free? Think Lon Horiuchi & Bill Barr are commie-libs?

And see the sensitive new gender-pandering Air Force.

Tackleberry
Tackleberry
1 month ago
Reply to  Russn8r

I’ve read your little diatribes for quite some time now. My assessment is that you are a small-minded and very insular personality, as such you really have no valuable input. It’s easier to just skip over your posts and a mute function would be a welcome addition in your case.

As my time is valuable to me and you are not, this will be my last response to you. So have a nice day Chuckles.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  Tackleberry

i.e. Major Dingleberry can’t address facts, issues & reasoning persuasively so he goes to ad hominem smokescreen like a leftist.

Last edited 1 month ago by Russn8r
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Tackleberry

On April 30, 1992, when veterans could have shown just how tough they are and defended people who were being visciously attacked by violent mobs, they followed orders to retreat and defend the “leftists” who had power in Beverly Hills.

If 85% of those veterans were “center-right,” did it matter?

Last edited 1 month ago by JSNMGC
Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

No, nor did it matter when “center-right” federales & their L.A. Sheriff “partners” got away with murdering innocent Don Scott to steal his Malibu ranch.

Major Dingleberry evades. Posts fairy tales, meets contrary facts & reasoning with deflection. Leftist M.O.

30-year USAF operations officer”. PSY-ops?

Last edited 1 month ago by Russn8r
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Similar to the socialist ammo screechers, he makes statements and then doesn’t stick around for the conversation.

Russn8r
Russn8r
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Yep. RUN AWAY!

Roland T. Gunner
Roland T. Gunner
1 month ago
Reply to  Jaque

Actions of tyranny GREATER than that of the Btitish masters that ruled over the colonies. The Tea Tax was a very small and unobtrusive tax compared with our tax burden today.