ATF Unveils Pistol Brace Rule…Everything Is An SBR!

SB Tactical Stabilizing Braces
SB Tactical Stabilizing Braces

WASHINGTON, D.C. -(Ammoland.com)- The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) released its final rule surrounding pistol stabilizing devices killing off the market for the items unless court challenges prove successful.

The new rule (ATF final rule 2021R-08F) was published on the ATF’s website today and is set to be posted on the Federal Register on Monday, one day before the industry’s largest trade show, SHOT Show. The regulation will affect millions of Americans that currently own pistol stabilizing devices. What has been considered pistols for years will now be regarded as short barreled rifles (SBR) and be subjected to the National Firearms Act (NFA).

The proposed rule used a form known as “Worksheet 4999” to determine if a firearm equipped with a pistol brace would be considered an SBR by using a point system. The ATF ditched the form in favor of a widespread declaration that almost every pistol equipped with a brace of any kind would be considered an SBR.

“Worksheet 4999 was intended to ensure uniform consideration and application of the statutory definition of those terms. Based on the comments received, the Department agrees that the proposed Worksheet 4999 and point system did not achieve these intended purposes,” the Final Rule reads.

Under the new rule, any firearm that is “designed or redesigned made or remade and intended to be fired from the shoulder” will be considered an SBR.

This designation includes devices such as pistol stabilizing braces which the ATF assumes the shooter installed to be able to shoulder the gun. Also, if a firearm merely has the surface area that would allow it to be fired from the shoulder, the ATF might consider it an SBR if it has a weight or length consistent with a rifle.

ATF Releases Final Version of Pistol Brace Rule
ATF Releases Final Version of Pistol Brace Rule

Any pistol with a length of pull that is consistent with that of what would be found in a rifle would be considered an SBR. Any adjustable attachments, such as a multi-position buffer tube, would also automatically make the pistol an SBR. If the shooter places an optic on their firearm that requires an eye relief that is consistent with what’s used on a rifle, such as a scope, then that gun will also be considered a short barreled rifle. If a firearm has the surface area to be fired from the shoulder, such as a firearm equipped with a nonadjustable buffer tube, then that will be considered an SBR, basically making every AR-15 pistol and SBR.

“Whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations,” the document reads.

The ATF will also look at marketing material offered by the manufacturer to determine if installing that device on a firearm will convert it to an SBR. Several lawsuits involve companies suing over California’s law preventing the advertisement of firearms to people under the age of 18, including safety classes.

The ATF will also look at how the people in the firearms community use a gun to determine whether it is an SBR. You could use a device as intended by the manufacturer and still violate the rule if others use it in a way that is not consistent with how the manufacturer designed the device to be used.

There is a 120-day grace period to apply for a tax stamp for any device now considered an SBR that was previously considered a pistol.

Although the ATF states a 120-day grace period to register a pistol as an SBR, the ATF only promises not to enforce NFA rules on these devices for 60 days. The ATF will give a tax forbearance for the $200 tax stamp fee. A tax forbearance means that the ATF will not collect the $200 tax fee, although, by the law, you still owe the fee; it just will not be collected. The rule is set up the way it is because the ATF cannot waive a tax.

Gun owners must use e-Forms to file for the tax stamp. Only individuals would qualify for the tax stamp on devices with pistol stabilizing braces. If someone wanted to put the firearm into a trust, they must first register as an individual and then pay the $200 transfer fee to transfer it into a trust. Many people who own NFA items prefer having their firearms in a trust.

Some states do not allow for SBRs. Gun owners in those states do have options.

They could add a 16-inch or greater barrel, converting the firearm from a pistol into a rifle. In the past, the ATF has stated that a pistol could never be converted into a rifle, but the regulation seems to change this determination. The pistol stabilizing device could also be removed, and the gun owner can modify their firearms not to be able to accept a pistol brace. The gun owner also has the option of destroying the firearm. The final option would be turning the gun into the ATF for zero compensation.

The new regulation is expected to cost gun owners over $260 million. It is expected to cost the federal government over $3 million. In addition to the cost, it will put an increasing burden on the already overwhelmed NFA division of the ATF. the ATF claims that the average wait time will be 90 days, although Silencer Shop is showing a wait time of eight months for a tax stamp. Not only will it bog down the new tax stamp applications for SBRs, but it might drastically increase the wait time for other NFA items, such as sound suppressors.

There will be challenges to the new rule. The Second Amendment Foundation has an ongoing case in a federal District Court in North Dakota over the new regulation. Other legal challenges are expected shortly from other Second Amendment organizations.

Ammoland News reached out to SB tactical for a comment on the final rule but has not received one at the time of this writing.


About John Crump

John is a NRA instructor and a constitutional activist. John has written about firearms, interviewed people of all walks of life, and on the Constitution. John lives in Northern Virginia with his wife and sons and can be followed on Twitter at @crumpyss, or at www.crumpy.com.

John Crump

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Arizona

The regulation is unconstitutional on its face, and through it BATFE assumes powers of Congress to create criminal law. SCOTUS already ruled agencies may not alter or create law nor use deference for criminal law issues. BATFE is off its rocker claiming a buffer tube is a stock and AR pistols are all SBR’s. Time to abolish the unconstitutional f squad and shtcan the NFA in its entirety.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

It should have never been created in the first place. Obviously the constitution was being used by governmental functionaries in 1934 also.

Arizona

Agreed. Most departments and agencies are completely lacking in Constitutional authority, ie, were not allowed to be established under the Constitution. We can abolish dept of miseducation and save billions of tax dollars while improving education and ending woke indoctrination as step one. The termination of HUD can be step two.

Steve

I agree 100%. However, the foundation of your argument is that it is Unconstitutional and that SCOTUS has already ruled against these agencies – again, absolutely correct. But, what happens when 2 or more Conservative SCOTUS Justices meet an “unfortunate early demise” with a now Democrat controlled Senate? How will all this fall out? And anyone who thinks it cannot happen – think again and remember Antonin Scalia.

BenV

Since the pistol brace was first designed for disabled shooters, could this regulation, (at least for actual disabled shooters) be illegal under the American with Disabilities Act?

Arizona

It is indeed.

Bozz

Will you then have to get a doctor’s note or prescription to use a brace?

CaptainKerosene

Just cut your arm off to please. Recommended if you’re right handed cut the right arm off. Next too many trigger fingers!

Watch um

I am disabled, I am on oxygen continuously and use a power chair or an electric scooter. I have a Roni attachment for my Glock pistol so that I can shoot while sitting in my power chair or scooter. I am 80 years old but continue to be able to shoot because of the stability of the brace that my pistol is temporarily installed in it

Oldman

As far as the Roni attachment goes, the ATF has gone from legal as long as you don’t shoulder it, to legal even if you do shoulder it, and now illegal to have unless you register it. So, my dumb question is: what if you don’t have a pistol installed in? Is that piece of plastic still considered to be a SBR? Do we throw it in the garbage or send it to the ATF? Do we have to throw away the receipt? Does CAA MCK keep records as to whom has bought them? Inquiring minds want to know……….One thing… Read more »

StLPro2A

ATF considers having possession of one or more full auto parts….sear, 3-position safety, third hole receiver, et el….to be same as a complete full auto firearm. under the concept of “constructive possession.” This would appear to apply to having an arm brace not attached to a firearm, by itself.

Oldman

Really? That’s ludicrous! I have seen things similar in use by folks using metal detectors and even fishing poles.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

Soon they will use precogs to determine if you even THOUGHT about having those parts and you will spend 10 years in a gulag and pay $250,000 fine because the CONSTITUTION is null and void according to them.

USMC0351Grunt

I want the ATF to tell me what I’m thinking right now!

YOU might end up in a gulag and pay 250k, I won’t. A lot of “they”, aka Marxists, will be pushing up daisies before this Airborne Special Forces Veteran goes to a gulag.

Oldman

So obviously you know much more than I about all this stuff. Last year my son picked up a MP 15-22 for his family and it came with a stabilizing brace as part of the stock. This too would be illegal, now?

buzzsaw

Hmmm. Does this mean that my Kel-Tec P-40 with a .357 SIG barrel is a rifle? If it is a rifle, then it is a short -barreled rifle since the barrel is only about 3.2 inches long. However, it does lack a stock, brace or even a reasonable means of attaching one. In light of the oath that all federal employees take as a legal condition of employment that includes the phrase “…to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic” the only legal, moral, and honorable thing the BATFE can do is to immediately stop acting… Read more »

Arizona

Hypocrisy is their specialty. They’ll just make up or redefine the terms yet again! It will be a cis-Gen pistol caliber short barreled rifle. The agency exists solely to infringe and violate the civil rights of citizens.

Roland T. Gunner

The entire voncept of “constructive posession” needs to be brought into lawsuit(s), as many and as often as is necessary to get it struck down. One of thoae things that is so preposterous, unconstitutional, unethical and immoral as to defy understanding how it weaseled its way into our legal system.

Jyst becauae I am not committing ××× act now, does not mean I forfeit my right as a self determining, free man to commit ××× act in the future.

And until I do, I HAVE NOT!

Orion

possession of those specific fcg parts by themselves ( hammer, trigger, safety, disconnector, auto sear)are no federal violation. those specific parts while in possession of a semi lower are where one crosses over the line.
lowers with third holes have been determined as full autos for decades.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

They would call it “constructive intention”. If you have the brace and a pistol and the Minority Report division would show you INTENDED to use it as an SBR, thus you are a bad person and should be shunned by all of humanity due to your heinous life threating activity. Meanwhile in Afghanistan…thousands up thousands of Taliban are saying thank you to Chairman Xiden for the free M4 rifles/sbr/MACHINE GUNS.

3manfan

This rule has nothing to do with Ronis or clones, it pertains to AR Pistols only. A Roni is not an AR Pistol.

3manfan

Who is Oregoneistan?
Not seeing him in this thread.

Chuck

Don’t forget Commierado. Ran by the Arse Spelunker Pole(up his)Arse.
The former gov-ner, now Senator Lickshispooper (Hickenlooper) and Sen. Bennett are both as Anti-Gun as you can get.
Denver and its surrounding communes run the State. Smaller communities and rural Coloradoans have no say in our governence.

3manfan

Those from Oregon are known as a Oregonian, not a ‘Oregoneistan’.

Only dummies don’t know that.

Being from the Free State of Arizona, I know these things.

3manfan

You’re not the only ‘old vet’ in existence Hoss, there are plenty of us, so don’t presuppose that you know more than I or others. About anything. As to your final point, it’s exactly why I’m moving BACK to FL in 2 months after giving AZ 10 years of my life only to see it go from Red to Purple to now Blue.

3manfan

I’m not new here at all. Just because I don’t post much doesn’t mean I haven’t been on this forum for as long as it’s been around.

Try not to lose any sleep over it.

3manfan

You need a nap. It’ll make you less hostile..

Considerthis

The handle “3manfan” is a lot like One Man Band. Not really attempting to produce music people want to hear but really just seeking attention.

3manfan

You need a nap. It’ll make you less hostile..

3manfan

Man…..you boys are like a bunch of old hens with your squabbling & hand wringing over someone that injects a touch of spirited debate into your little circle. You should go back & refresh your memory as to whom introduced the word ‘dummies’ into this conversation, because it was you. Never mind, you’ll probably not be able to find it so I’ll do it for you: Oregoneistan, we aren’t dummies here when it comes to our guns. You want dummies, go to Portland and Eugene, they are in abundance there. I’ve been watching the same group of you guys bicker… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by 3manfan
Roland T. Gunner

Yuh, Earnhardt was great NASCAR, but greatest racer ever? I have trouble with my personal biases too, because skill and potentiial are not the same as 1st place finishes; but try Dave McDonald, Peter Revson, our famous homegrown prodigy A.J. Foyt, and yes, Ken Miles, who is now practically a household name, fifty-some years later.

Bubba

I take offense to that “hate Bubba” part. 😉

Hate Wallace instead. 🙂

Chuck

You mean Arizona where Maricopa County gets to ignore election rules and elect that evil C*nt Hobbs to rule over you peones?

Roland T. Gunner

Peones? Do you plant yours all in a single bed, or in individual pots?

Oldman

I think he meant peons… peonies are spelt like I just typed, but we all know what you meant….LOL

MP71

Oregoneistan is M44’s derogatory nickname for his state. When looking at the world, places that have “stan” as the suffix in their name are usually 3rd world s***holes that are incredibly corrupt.

Last edited 1 year ago by MP71
Considerthis

The wrist brace was designed,marketed, and sold for a variety of weapon platforms ( AR, AK, HK, Uzi and others ). The statement ” pertains to AR pistols only ”
is a false statement. You are either misinformed or willfully attempting to spread misinformation.

3manfan

This rule has nothing to do with Ronis or clones, it pertains to AR Pistols only. A Roni is not an AR Pistol.

Oldman

Well, if what you say is true, than why do they show pictures of all 3 generations of micro ronis in this article under glock type handguns in the article we are commenting on?

3manfan

No idea other than some authors simply add pics of weapons to articles that have no actual bearing on a given article, possibly the Agent that prepared that release did the same. The ATF made its ruling on Roni conversions & those like it back in 2010 & it’s my understanding that this new ruling only pertains to AR pistols. There’d be no need for the ATF to include a previously regulated item in a new ruling (like this new one), unless they are abandoning their prior ruling of 2010 & lumping the Roni into this new one……but I’ve not… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by 3manfan
Chuck

ATF had previously rule Bump Stocks as accessories, but changed their mind after the Vegas shooting and Trump’s green light to ban them. So they’ve changed their minds at least once before now. There may be other times they’ve done this. I’ve not researched the the topic. ATF’s new description of how a Bump Stock makes the gun fully automatic is outright ridiculous. Anyone who knows anything about how Semi-Autos function can point out their errors they made, it’s that bad. Hopefully now that the 5th Circuit Court has decided the rule is Unconstitutional, and pointed out ATF’s errors, when… Read more »

Roland T. Gunner

This is at least the third time BUTF*** has changed their mind, and their written policy statement, regarding arm braces.

Roland T. Gunner

AR’s, AK’s, Ingram/MAC’s and clones, smoothbore “non-shotgun” firearms, MP5 and B&T clones, Ruger PCC and 10/22 Charger pistols, anything that bolts to the back of a Glock or that a Glock stuffs into…

And its going to cost me thousands of $$$ to make all of mine compliant without making many of them close to useless firearms, because I refuse to register another damned thing under the NFA.

Last edited 1 year ago by Roland T. Gunner
Oldman

now that everyone is all hot and bothered about this, I read the ruling from the link not from an author of the story that we are posting on. apparently they are showing pictures and they said in the Ruling that the micros are SBRs. I was just trying to get confirmation from anyone other than myself that I understood what I read. I AM old, you know?

Chuck

That’s the way I read the attachment too. Looks like the ATF is trying to cover everything that could potentially have a stock or brace attached to it. Someone at ATF has put a lot of Unconstitutional thought into this.

Oldman

I get it now. 3mfan did not read the ruling and relied on what he thought he knew from 2010.. Hell, in 2010 they were legal, but you werenot allowed to shoulder them. Tell me how they thought they could discern if you had ever shouldered it. Bright bunch, eh?

Oh about turning 65? You could be 10 years older, like me and I hope you make it.

Roland T. Gunner

Anybody asks, just tell ’em you are about halfway there.

Roland T. Gunner

I cranked up Aqualung amd Locomotive Breath for my son, now 25, while riding around in his Challenger 392 a while back; he was not impressed

Roland T. Gunner

The Doors

Roland T. Gunner

‘Stones- Sympathy For The Devil!

Oldman

Speaking of Zeppelin; I cannot remember the exact year, but I and a bunch of friends and some of our girlfriends attended a concert at the Green Lake Aqua Theater in Seattle with Three Dog Night as the headliner. It was a normal thing-the smell of Mary Jane hung heavy in the air and some of our group had dropped some Psychedelics. It was a beautiful warm summer evening and life back then was gooood. The event started with a couple of local bands followed by a group no one had ever heard of. Led Zeppelin came on stage and… Read more »

Oldman

We would not have run into each other in ’77. I had kids by then and that part of my life was over. This concert was in the late ’60s,

Roland T. Gunner

“Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?”

Roland T. Gunner

You keep telling yourself that while you rot in a federal prison.

I am not name calling, but “chump” comes to mind.

Ansel Hazen

Weren’t they just slapped around over the bumpstock ruling and told they can’t make laws?

totbs

This will be declared unconstitutional also. My hope is that there won’t be a single person in the US that applies for a tax stamp. I know it’s a long shot, but I can hope.

USMC0351Grunt

I thought that people with mental illnesses, such as narcissists, schizophrenia, ADD, ADHD, bipolar disorder aren’t even allowed to posses a firearm, let alone work for a federal agency that tries to change it’s mind every time it changes it’s underwear?

Last edited 1 year ago by USMC0351Grunt
Boom

Add zelenzsky to that list, remove Putin. Putin is actually on our side. Think about this for a min….

MikeRoss

Putin is most definitely NOT on our side, as he has regularly stated starting with his ‘Munich Speech’ in 2007. His hatred of the West, and the US in particular, has only become more vehement since then.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

Funny, Putin has also been quoted as saying that if we rise up against our psychopathic control freaks running “our” government he’d send in Spetznaz to help us. LOL!

Raconteur

Is that why Putin had his mouth-piece threaten NATO (that includes the US) with nukes? Next, you’ll be claiming the Foreign Intelligence Service of the Russian Federation is a subsidiary of the CIA and William Burns is best buds with Sergei Naryshkin. Wait.. Hmmm.. come to think on it…

totbs

You need to re-think your thinking on this. Take all the time you like.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

I’ve rethought it and ANYONE who is against the New World Order is on MY side.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

Putin is a nationalist which makes him a deadly enemy of the World Economic Forum asshats.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

Actually the list you mention is a prerequisite to be accepted in the ATF along with being a total psychopathic control freak.

Finnky

Well at least they simplified decisions surrounding compliance. Had intended to evaluate under worksheet scoring system and make modifications if necessary to make my 9mm remain a pistol. If having a buffer tube defines an SBR this is definitely no longer an option. Sucks that they are refusing trust registration. For those who choose to comply through registration this could put families at risk and complicate inheritance. Given time frames to get first tax stamp and then to get approval for transfer to trust – a significant number of current owners will pass away before completing the process. Anyone know… Read more »

Arizona

At least they just made it completely ridiculous and unconstitutional, rather than pretend their BS score sheet ( that said achieving a passing score could be overridden for any reason or no reason at all per FBATFE discretion) was legit, you mean? What a load of horse puckey.

Article I, Section 9, Clause 3:

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

For all who legally bought AR pistols with or without braces, they are still legal and must remain so to comply with the Constitution.

USMC0351Grunt

This is true, however, the BATFE is not a, “legislature”, therefore they are wasting taxpayer dollars acting as such under color of law which is no different that a common citizen going around with a police badge pretending to be a cop.

Last edited 1 year ago by USMC0351Grunt
totbs

There certainly has been no law passed by any duly elected representatives. That alone makes it unconstitutional.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor
Roland T. Gunner

We don’ need no stupid constitution.

Roland T. Gunner

NFA item does not become illegal if you move to a new residence within your state of residence. You must file the proper form and recieve permission to transfer the item out of your state of residence; and I have been told that does not apply to suppressors.
There is a process to be approved to transfer your NFA items to a new state of residence, but I am not familiar with it. I’ll just stay in Texas.

Last edited 1 year ago by Roland T. Gunner
Raconteur

“Likely this is enough to convince many law abiding citizens to devalue compliance.”
Now, that is a very nice way of putting it.

Last edited 1 year ago by Raconteur
Josephus

Any pistol with a length of pull that is consistent with that of what would be found in a rifle would be considered an SBR.

So, if you have a bare buffer tube with no other attachments or locking rail, yet it will still have a LOP “consistent with the LOP of a rifle” – so it’s now an SBR?

These “people” are devoid of every virtue. Truly despicable.

Finnky

Have glanced through parts of the rule. No careful reading as of yet…. However they keep referring to factors to consider in making determination… among those factors is whether rearward extension is necessary for operation. This suggests that a pistol buffer tube does not make a rifle by itself, but if you added that same tube to something that doesn’t require it – then it would make a rifle. Seems they are trying to moderate their attack and be reasonable. In that process they only reveal their arbitrariness. Vague laws are unenforceable – doesn’t get much vaguer than a regulation… Read more »

Orion

yep. a 22LR AR pistol uses a totally self contained system; doesn’t need anything past the receiver to function. adding any type of buffer extension to one would seem to put these into the NFA class under this new rule. pure BS on a grand scale.

Arizona

Next they will claim all AR’s and AK’s must be registered as NFA items. Then six months later, BATFE will claim they are illegal machine guns, as they can “readily” be modified into such, during a full 8 hour day in a machine shop (their definition of readily). BATFE will demand surrender of all newly declared machine guns, which they previously required to be registered. Disarmament is their only goal.

Montana454Casull

Be patient and the SCOTUS will deal with this the same way they did with the bumpstock BS . The ATF is a bunch of over reaching clowns now days .

Bozz

I was almost sure this rule would fail and be turned over if based on the 4999. Now, with the wording of the rule, I’m not so sure. I think that’s why they ditched the 4999. Hoping GOA, SAF, and others will take this to court soon.

2gats

“I was gonna register all of mine…..” and then I realized F**K you tyrannical assholes…….

fixed it

IN Dave

@atf, F…you! No! That is all.

Trussman

The ATF missed their chance way back. They wrote the letters to the producers of the shockwave blade pistol braces and other manufacturers, stating that the products did not make an AR pistol into an NFA item. They followed that letter up with another letter that basically said, that misuse of their product by the consumer, still did not make their product an NFA item. Whoever wrote that second letter had some common sense and applied it properly. Where this whole thing got screwed up was with the first letter. They (ATF) let the cat out of the bag with… Read more »

USMC0351Grunt

They are a government agency, they are SUPPOSED to lack common sense, leadership and most of all, BALLS!

Roland T. Gunner

You forgot principles, ethics and morals.

TGP389

Here’s your decision tree.

Got an AR pistol? —>
Register it.

Rebarrel it.

Wait for court. —>

We win. Yay. OR —>

Put a MOE stock on it and say “screw ’em”

Last edited 1 year ago by TGP389
Finnky

Sorry but I find my brace more comfortable than MOE stock. Not as nice for cheek weld, but nice and stable for quick, short-range run & gun. Reduced muzzle energy is useful as well – I accidentally shot a pistol target with 223 and did no damage at all! Admittedly I was shooting PMC-gold which is a slightly reduced power load – but full power 556 from a 16″ barrel would probably have punched straight through the steel target. Pisses me off that they (AFT) keep claiming short barrels retain all the capability of full length rifles. May be true… Read more »

2gats

F**k atf and their extended families. Publish their home addresses. Fire them, impoverish them, NEVER ALLOW THESE NAZI PARASITES TO HOLD A POSITION OF HONOR IN THE U.S.

These rules are an unconstitutional slap in the face to every American. They violate Bruin and show the rogue, tyrannical, anti American nature of this agency (and the “representatives” who support and fund them)

Central PA Dan

A stabilizing brace is an attachment to a pistol that functionally turns it into a short-barreled rifle, similar to a sawed-off shotgun. Such weapons are considered particularly deadly as they offer the power of a traditional rifle, but are much easier to conceal.
Pulled this from an NBC article this morning.
Joe Public that is not educated on guns is being very mislead.
I am baffled at how adding a stock to a handgun makes it more powerful lol. And my AR pistol with a folding brace is far from easy to conceal lol.

Montana454Casull

I challenge them on that as my 454 Casull does not have a brace and I would guess it’s more powerful than any braced AR . I don’t picture 450 Bushmasters or 458 SOCOMs with a brace unless somebody want a broken forearm . LMFAO

Roland T. Gunner

I put a .450 together a year or so ago; drug out and dusted off an old M16A1 fixed stock.

Finnky

I considered adding a 450 bushmaster upper. Don’t think it’d be that big an issue putting it on braced-pistol – aka pseudo-SBR. For the most part I’ve only seen braced pistols used as pseudo-SBRs. AFT said it was OK, so what-the-F did they expect? Much as I dislike and disapprove of AFT, they are supposed to be law-enforcement and NFA is law. Thus classifying many braced pistols as SBRs is not purely incorrect – just morally and logically wrong. Since morals and logic are only vaguely related to the law – guess I cannot really blame AFT for this mess… Read more »

KCsmith

Well I was gonna register all of mine, but then I had this boating accident where they all sank to the bottom of the lake, and unfortunately I forgot which lake it was. Oh well.

Oldman

A little alzheimers? hee hee

Finnky

Channeling his inner biden.

— this is meant as jest – @KCsmith please do not think I’m saying you have anything in common with our chief-court-jester.

USMC0351Grunt

That’s okay, as soon as the search and recovery team raises that boat load of bumpstocks they will be available for you to try and find yours. Oddly it usually occurs about the time right after the SCOTUS posts a ruling?

Matt in Oklahoma

Sounds like I need to sue the government for allowing me to buy an SBR. After all it’s sooooo unsafe for the public and all right? They knew what it was when they approved that particular model and did the background check and how dangerous they are right?
I figure me and the lawyer will be able to afford several 16”ers and a lot of ammo when we are done

USMC0351Grunt

A class action suit against the federal government and all agencies that ENDANGERED US by ALLOWING us to gain access to these terribly morbid weapons.

DIYinSTL

According to the ATF, “The benefit of this rule is preventing manufacturers and individuals from violating the requirements of the NFA and GCA.”

Gee, if all it takes is a rule to prevent bad things from happening, maybe the ATF should issue rules to prevent murder, larceny, lying to the public while in office …

TheFoe

There is now, officially, NO incentive whatsoever to not just put a stock on your AR.

Bill

The Supreme Court needs to get off their collective butts and review the BATFE’s pronouncements on bump stocks, 80% “frames” and pistol braces and several other laws the BATFE has created over the years!
These un-elected non-members of congress (apparently) figure they can make and enforce laws as they see fit. They (BATFE) feel they can do whatever they want with no interference from any part of the government!

PistolGrip44

DO NOT COMPLY.

ashort

Great article: but to tell you the truth, all I want to know is where is “WE THE PEOPLE”, when they are needed the most to nip all of this in the bud, and finally abolish the NFA, GCA, Brady bill, AFT, and tones of other tyrannical infringing Constitutional rights violating BS laws and rules? Where are they?

Watch um

The ATF can’t waver the tax because it is a law but they can make law that only congress can. That is total BS and they know it as everyone who is a citizen should know Congress makes law not the ATF. I am so sick of congress and the government of the United States I want to puke. To listen to members of congress say “TO MY Distinguished colleague” when addressing each other on the floor of congress makes me sick. Fu*k every one of them, democrats and Republicans I despise the compete bunch and the bimbo who has… Read more »

Roland T. Gunner

Permenantly alter the firearm so it can no longer accept a brace? Or a stock? I dont think so, Scooter.

Finnky

@ John Crump — You state that tax amnesty only applies to individuals and cannot be used to register in a trust. While i’ve only glanced through parts of the regulation, i came across a footnote stating that “individual” refereed to legal entities including individuals, FFLs, corporations or trusts. While it is possible e-file precludes trusts, I suspect trust registration will be allowed under this program. Not wanting to subject myself or my family to these conditions, my intent is to keep my pistol a pistol if possible. Preferred method being withdrawal of this regulation, but modification if necessary. One… Read more »

Finnky

Courts are supposed to toss laws for vagueness. Seems like ATFs new “clarifying regulations support stripping SBRs and SBSs from the NFA. If we’ve gone nearly 90 years without figuring out what the law means – it is clearly too vague to be enforceable.
i’ve long wanted legislature to engage in common-sense gun control reform – stripping silencers and SBR/SBS from NFA for starters. However I’ll gladly accept binding court orders to do the same.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

There is one other option. Tell the ATF to FK off.

Roland T. Gunner

The verbage regarding “any adjustable buffer tube, receiver extension or attachment” and “fixed buffer tube” do sound as if they will consider the 99.9% of AR based pistols out there that use a receiver extension to house a recoil spring and buffer to be an SBR, with or without any brace or stock attached.

Roland T. Gunner

ATF has never stated a pistol cannot be made into a rifle. They tried to claim a pistol, once made into a rifle, could never be convertad back into pistol configuration; but the courts slapped their pee-pees down and told them they could not do that.

Orion

Thompson Center vs US was that case. late 1990s.

Dogma Factor

Forget the brace is now the time to make an SBR without paying a $200 tax stamp? Use a 80 percent lower, make up some sort of serial number to put on it and file the ATF paper work while there’s a 120 day grace period. ATF is going to be so overwhelmed with paper it will be years before it gets processed, and you though you had wait along time to get that barrel muffler. The ATF itself estimates five to seven million of the devices existing. The Congressional Research Service puts the number much higher at somewhere between… Read more »

Bubba

This could be just the case to throw out the NFA and make the FATF unconstitutional.
Here hoping!!!!!!!

Bterclinger

WWHB Do?

Roland T. Gunner

Break.out the big Solothurn?

USMC0351Grunt

THIS is why I carry condoms that I hand to ANY level of law enforcement up to and including federal agents, some border patrol, sheriff deputies, state troopers, etc when they start to lose focus on their jobs and oaths. I just hand them a condom and tell them to go Fk themselves. Seconds later I state, “HEY! THAT’S in concern for your safety, I wouldn’t want you to infect yourself!” They usually break out laughing after that. But it IS a very effective way to get their attention and get them to snap out of whatever mindset they trailed… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by USMC0351Grunt
Chuck

How is the Tax Stamp not a de facto registry? I’ve never heard a satisfactory explanation to that question. So either register your gun, and face further scrutiny and potential confiscation and criminal charges, or don’t register your pistol and face Felony Prosecution. This doesn’t get anymore Unconstitutional, and the Chevron Defense is/was a wrong SCOTUS decision. The only other alternative is to disassemble your AR or other pistol and convert it to a 16″ carbine or scatter and hide the parts My AR Pistol is a home build, so there’s no serial number. Even if I decided to accept… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Chuck
Roland T. Gunner

The courts have started reining in Chevron Deference, but as of now, BUTF still just ignores the courts.

hippybiker

Who in the Hell died and put these Mother Humpers in charge?!

Roland T. Gunner

FDR would be my nominee.

FL-GA

What is the intent? Is an SBR a concealable rifle? What’s the difference between a concealable rifle and a pistol? Is a 15″ 22lr with a stock more dangerous than a .44mag revolver?
Hey ATF, how about some common sense here?
Concealable = handgun. Not concealable = rifle, shotgun, musket, cannon, whatever.
Concealable readily fits inside of a 6″x12″x18″ box. (Or whatever dimensions you decide.)
That’s all you need; two classifications.
Clear, concise, and enforceable.

Steve

My Mossberg Shockwave is indeed very concealable under any medium length jacket, a full size duster etc – and devastating if used at close range- why no restrictions? Ah, because I cannot put it up to my shoulder? Who knows. The ATF Rubes will continue to push these idiotic “definitions” until We the People finally say “enough”.

Rooster

Another possible option that I haven’t seen mentioned maybe the Deadfoot Arms system that eliminates the buffer tube.

CaptainKerosene

I wonder whether ATFE/BIDEN. will require amputation of an arm to complete the SBR application?
Then the firearms traditionally handguns will be called SBR too.

Boz

Fatf!!!

Watch um

Please forgive me for being so angry in my earlier post. I should not said such things about our elected officials.

Stag

They deserve much worse.

Roland T. Gunner

Oh yes you should have.

Boom

The devil’s gonna do what the devil’s gonna do…

Arny

CLOWN WORLD

Orion

Any adjustable attachments, such as a multi-position buffer tube, would also automatically make the pistol an SBR. If the shooter places an optic on their firearm that requires an eye relief that is consistent with what’s used on a rifle, such as a scope, then that gun will also be considered a short barreled rifle. If a firearm has the surface area to be fired from the shoulder, such as a firearm equipped with a nonadjustable buffer tube, then that will be considered an SBR, basically making every AR-15 pistol and SBR. “Whether the surface area that allows the weapon… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Orion