Opinion
Arizona -(Ammoland.com)- A very interesting Second Amendment case has developed in the Illinois state court system. The case challenges the requirement to qualify for, pay for, and have in possession, an Illinois Firearm Owner Identification card (FOID), to legally possess a firearm in the home for the purposes of self-defense. The case is very clear. The Illinois court ruled the requirement to have a FOID was unconstitutional. From illinoiscarry.com:
This is a case in my own circuit court that we have been monitoring for the past year. The court ruled the FOID Act unconstitutional in regard to the licensing and taxing requirement to be in possession of a firearm or ammunition in your own home. The IL Attorney General has appealed the case to the IL Supreme Court.
Cliff notes: Lady with a clean record, in possession of a single shot, bolt action rifle .22 in the home for personal protection. No FOID but otherwise eligible for a FOID. The judge ruled requiring a license and charging a fee/tax to exercise a Constitutional right in the home unconstitutional.
We were in contact with the attorney for this case and discovered he was retiring and will not be representing Ms. Brown at the IL Supreme Court level. We have sought legal representation for Ms. Brown and believe the case will be in good hands. More news to follow!
The first decision on the case made numerous findings. Here is part of the wording on requiring a person to obtain a permit and pay for the permit to legally exercise her rights under the Second Amendment. The case was decided at the district court level on 14 February 2018. From Illinois vs Brown:
10. In this case, the facts show the defendant possessed a gun, in her house, for the purpose of self-defense without a FOID card. To require the defendant to fill out a form, provide a picture ID and pay a $10 fee to obtain a FOID card before she can exercise her constitutional right to self-defense with a firearm is a violation of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution as applied to the states and a violation of Article I, Section 22, of the Constitution of the State of Illinois, as applied to this case only.
11. Based upon the foregoing, the Court finds 430 ILCS 65/2(a)(1) unconstitutional as applied to this case.
There were several motions filed after the decision in February of 2018. The Court addressed those concerns and made additional findings on 16 October 2018, in their Order denying the motion to reconsider the finding of unconstitutionality.
The court found the original ruling was correct, it found the requirement for the FOID card was impossible to comply with under the law. The law required the FOID card to be constantly on the person of the owner, 24 hours a day. If the person left the home, the card had to be both in the home and on the person. In addition, any person in the house with firearms in the home had to have a FOID card, whether they owned any firearms or not.
In the October ruling, the court found the FOID was unconstitutional under the Second Amendment and unconstitutional because it was impossible to comply with.
The State of Illinois appealed the case to the Illinois Supreme Court on 11 November 2018.
The Illinois Supreme Court granted an extension to prepare a brief on 23 January 2019.
Another extension was requested on 12 March, 2019. That was the final extension. The brief is due on 26 April, 2019. From illinoiscourts.gov:
124100 People State of Illinois, Appellant, v. Vivian Brown, Appellee. Appeal, Circuit Court (White).
Motion by Appellant for an extension of time for filing appellant’s brief to and including April 26, 2019. Allowed. Final extension.
Order entered by Chief Justice Karmeier
The implications of this case are large. If the Illinois Supreme Court upholds the District Court decision, the only appeal would be to the Supreme Court of the United States, which is not required to grant certiorari (accept the case).
A great deal of Illinois [as well as states like New Jersey] gun law is based on the FOID card. If requiring a picture ID, paying a fee, and applying for the FOID are infringements on the Second Amendment, how can the same requirements be constitutional, while defending yourself outside the home?
The District Court specifically quoted the “Shall not be infringed” clause of the Second Amendment.
State Supreme Courts tend to act with greater speed than the Federal court system.
We may see the Illinois State Supreme Court rule on this case in 2019. The Illinois State Supreme Court has been generally consistent in upholding Second Amendment rights under the Heller and McDonald decisions.
To reiterate: The only legal appeal from the State Supreme Court is directly to the United States Supreme Court.
About Dean Weingarten:
Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of constitutional carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and recently retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.
Illinois makes money on dog poop. You have to buy a license to go to the State Dog Park. Illinois is also where our governors make our license plates. My two cents your’e FOID card should be your “carry card”. Illinois also restrains trade by requiring “adjoining states to ship to an Illinois FFL. That needs to change as well. Let freedom reign. If car buyers were harassed the way gun buyers are, the corrupt politicians would be unemployed.
Your governer is actually in Colorado, I saw him and his white hair a while back while working in the prison.
I grew up just outside Springfield, Illinois. Had a $5 FOID until I moved to a free state. Have had a Kansas CCH since 2007.
Illinois won’t even accept an application for an Illinois non-resident CCW. I’m not a resident of states that wo’t issue a CCW, such as Hawaii or New Jersey. WTF?
Illinois does have “safe harbor” in their law. I can carry my loaded gun for self-defense IN THE CAR. But I can’t carry while outside pumping gas!
I still have some family remaining in Illinois. Maybe the Court will order Chicago to but out?
I think you can do it pumping gas, as long as you are within a reasonable vicinity of your car. But if you leave your car to pay inside at cashier that would be leaving the vicinity of the car and then be in violation. The safe harbor is there to allow you to safely (dis)arm yourself when you enter and leave car.
False. You can’t carry it pumping gas. Only may be carried outside your car if you are exiting your car to store it (i.e. trunk).
Please Help us in Illinois! God bless America.
Watch out for the “Red Flag” laws. The next step in gun confiscation scheme! Contact your Senators the jokers in Illinois are worthless communists.
i’d relieve myself into occupied IL from a safe distance & @ a decent speed. maybe from an elevated trough outside the state line. sorry for you potg-patriots imprisoned there.
foid = f**k off, I’m (a) dhimmi-rat? new slogan for crime-esha & smokes-it?
Lmao
Have you ever noticed that when democrats get involved with something serious, that something turns to poo?
Yes. Democrats are by far the worst two-faced people I have ever met.
Hopefully Illinois will be ordered to pay all Court Costs to the Petitioner Just like Oak Park Illinois did when they were sued by the NRA for their ban on handguns which was also found Unconstitutional.
DOES ANYONE HAVE AN UPDATE AS TOO WHEN THE CASE WILL BE HEARD
BY THE STATE SUPREME COURT?
How is it legal for Illinois to infringe on my 2nd amendment right for so many years?
Because there are no penalties for politicians who pass unconstitutional laws. The bad laws stand until reviewed by a court, maybe eventually get struck down, then the bad politicians pass another series of bad laws that stand until challenged again. There needs to be some punitive actions for this kind of negligence.
I wonder just how many hood rats in Chicago carry their FOID card…
Does anyone know how they found that the woman had a gun to start with. I just can’t figure out why they would prosecute her for that to start with unless they couldn’t get her on something else. Jw, I can’t find anything on the web about it.
In my CCL renewal class last night, my instructor said she was forced to defend herself in her home. I don’t remember if he said it resulted in a death or not.
The ex husband decided to cause her problems. He reported her to the police I am told.
Personally I have mixed emotions about the FOID card system and here’s why. First, states can not legally write, and put into place, laws that broaden. or remove constitutional and federal law. They can however make into laws, laws that tighten or further restrict what’s constitutional or federal law. Here’s an example. The federal government passes a law that says everyone in the country can legally drive 150 mph. States CAN NOT pass a law that says within our state you can drive 200 mph because that law would supersede and broaden the federal law. But what they can do… Read more »
@Bob, Do you see the FOID card in the Second Amendment? Then it is a theft of your civil Rights. What you are “following” is not law, it is an unconstitutional statute.
he just explained why it is legal dumbass.
@Nubus, So, you don’t know the difference between unconstitutional and illegal, and your insults are trite.
if you were arrested for domestic violence you would not get il foid.
@Bob, You said “We don’t need to remove guns from law abiding system. We need to do gun control that negatively impacts criminals”. No offense Bob, but that is one of the most asinine statements that I have read. Criminals are criminals because they have no regard for the law, what part of that don’t you understand? What law is going to make a criminal compliant? Name one that has. Between the Feds and the States, there are over 20,000 laws directed at legal owners of firearms. How many more do we need, as you say, to “impact criminals”? The… Read more »
A politician with a law never stops a bad guy with a gun.
He only controls the good guys……which is his actual agenda.
And your comment is about the most racist comments I’ve read. There are good and bad results from gun control, but restricting felons from owning a gun isn’t one of them. Maybe keeping racist a$$holes from owning guns should be.
@Bob (jntB), carefully there are cads out their that just can’t wait to call someone a racist so that they can establish their liberal credentials.
Do we, as citizens of the US and our state of residence, have the RIGHT to vote? Of course we do. there was a thing some years back where some states were imposing a fee or tax (no difference, when the state holds out its grubby paw for bux that you cannot refuste paying, they are the same thing) as part of the process for registering to vote. Some states called it a “poll tax”, others a registration or paperwork processing :”fee”. No difference.. if I wanted to exercise my RIGHT to vote, I had to pay the piper. that… Read more »
Being a resident of Missouri, you aren’t required to have a FOID card when in possession of a firearm in the state of Illinois. You will just need to be possessing them under the conditions of Illinois law, which will depend on whether you have a CCL recognized by IL. Since MO doesn’t require a CCL to carry concealed or open, you may not have one. If not, you may want to get one in MO if it’s reciprocal with IL. I know IL is honored in MO. I’ve had my CCL for the last 5-years and haven’t had to… Read more »
Sorry but you are wrong and so are the courts for somehow adding into our constitution that “voting” is a right. Our founding fathers built a Constitutional Republic not a democracy, many people get it wrong. The founding fathers were not stupid and had the wisdom of history and the foresight for the good of the nation to NOT allow just anyone to vote. Knowledge of the history of democracies have shown they become one party mob rule systems and they die off or become socialist or worse. The founding fathers constructively built our constitution and governmental system to avoid… Read more »
YOU CANT LEGISLATE A “RIGHT”
IF YOU DO SO, IT IS NO LONGER A “RIGHT” IS IT ?
Bob, Do you have your Online-Posting-Identification (OPID) permit from IL? Because if IL can restrict the 2nd amendment, then they can restrict the 1st amendment. Also, have you applied for your Warrant-Required-Identification (WRID) permit to exercise your right preventing warrantless searches of your property? Because you obviously don’t believe you have a 4th amendment right unless the state of IL grants it to you. Hopefully, these examples highlight for you how privileges are different than rights. While driving 200 Mph is privilege, the 2nd amendment is a right which can not be restricted by the state. While the state can… Read more »
@mac you hit Illinois on the head. They are proposing a tax on video streaming services like Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, etc. and in the wording, they LITERALLY SAY “for the privilege to witness, view, or otherwise enjoy the entertainment.” PRIVILEGE? I am sorry Illinois does not get a say in whether or not I stream video to myself. However, it shows you how they think of the citizens of Illinois. We are their subjects. I am moving to Missouri SOON.
The BatPenguin has spoken.
That’s Chicago only imposing that. Not the State. Still a terrible State & City but just wanted to correct you on that. Also, I live in Chicago. I’m ok. I just go to work and live my life. But I appreciate the people who get this stuff changed. Because it’s stupid. I should be able to walk around with my weapon whenever I want. But I do believe you need to show proficiency in the use of the weapon. Dont need people shooting wild out there.
Stop calling a firearm a WEAPON. It’s not a weapon until it’s used as one. What are those things used to drive in nails?? A hammer. It’s a tool used to drive nails. It doesn’t become a weapon until it’s used to cause harm. Every time a 2A supporter uses the “W” word, they only solidify the liberal position. Even in the Communist State of Illinois, the police don’t even refer to it as a “W”. It’s not a Weapon Owner Identification it’s a FIREARM Owner Identification.
Good on ya! I have been living in Mo. for 4 years. Friendly folk, and gun friendly. Unfortunately, I am moving to Illinois in a few months. Only for 4-5 years. But, I feel raped already. My only solice, is there area couple gun shops, and ranges in the area with good reviews. And again, it’s only for 5 years. But, I understand I am moving to 2nd amendment hell.
Why in the hell would you even consider moving to this shithole state?
I am a SOUTHERN Illinois resident. This case is about having a FOID for firearms in the home. However, you have to buy ammo and transport firearms to your home so that would likely be allowed without a FOID as well, if this case succeeds. Which means that you would need your FOID to conceal carry but we already have CCW license. So in effect, this could throw out the whole FOID system and not just in the home. It took me four months to get my FOID. For four months I was not allowed to exercise my constitutional right… Read more »
Quote: “They can however make into laws, laws that tighten or further restrict what’s constitutional or federal law.” Really? So a state can make a law that restricts constitutional right like the right to not being force to incriminate yourself? How about a law that restricts the prohibition against ‘cruel and unusual’ so that it does not apply to having a convicted felon drawn and quartered? What you are saying is that there are no constitutional rights what so ever. And yes, I know that the federal government as well as states and other political jurisdictions violate our rights as… Read more »
Your equating a privelege (driving) with a constitutional right (the 2A) is a common error. While some limitations on a right can be legislated, the highest form of scrutiny is supposed to be applied (it often isn’t). This is the problem in particular as related to firearms rights amount the 50 states and has lead to a patchwork of incompatible laws placing legal gun owners at risk when they travel out of their home state. No other right of privelege is treated this way. Imagine if you could be arrested for driving your car into another state because of some… Read more »
The purpose you state the FOID serves is already served by the NICS check that is required under federal law. Maybe since private sales do not require a NICS check you could say they still serve a purpose but that could be done without a FOID. NICS check is still required under federal law even if a FOID is possessed if you purchase from a licensed dealer. North Carolina requires a letter from the county sheriff if you want to purchase a handgun and they run the background check. This process is less time consuming than obtaining a FOID but… Read more »
Your a fucking idiot. Are you guilty until proven innocent. Some asshole says you did something you didn’t do and you loose your firearm rights with no due process. Idiots like you are why our rights are being trampled on.
Just another way for IL to take money in for the corrupt!
Illinois just let Smollett go. What do they care about the rule of law?
Get ready Illinois your Democrats want to make it so a FOID card will cost $50 instead of $10 and require fingerprints which will cost an additional $100 and Lessing the 10 yr to 5 yr expiration. Also require the applicant to submit all their social media accounts so they can look through everything u ever put on social media and try to find any little thing that they can use to deny u your 2nd Amendment rights. Keep voting these Democrats idiots in office and kiss your gun right goodbye!
In NJ the Governor is pushing for a $300 FOID card that has to be renewed every four years. And we already are required to be fingerprinted at cost of $60.
Holy shit? 300$? That’s more insane than living in Chicago!!
BIG 10/4 TO THAT
It was always about the money. They should have thrown it out when background checks started. Now they have cc checks.
Should be a slam dunk win for us, but I will keep my fingers crossed anyhow. After all, it is Illinois. What would be the chances of getting 40 years of refunds back?
A man should be able to protect himself on his land or home with no restrictions. Non violent federal felony Illinois citizens should have a legal right to appeal for relief as well.
Yes my name is Officer Tom Walsh! I am a law abiding citizen who made a couple of mistakes over 25 years ago. All because of a drug addiction, I have a couple non violent crimes that I made because of my addiction. I’ve been clean now for over 19 yrs and been working in Security Enforcement. I’ve been working for different Chicago Police officers and I have my 20 hr Armed and Unarmed Certificates. I also have my Handcuffing and Baton Certificates, but the State denied my FOID Card. I want to better my career in the Security Field… Read more »
In my opinion. I strongly feel the Illinois foid system is not fair to the common man. No man is perfect. So why should law abiding citizens suffer because of a few. You do what is asked and all they can tell you is there is no time frame. A delay is a deny. Stand by those who do right. I hope this case makes a difference for the better good.
I never thought I would see the day that an Illinois court would rule on the side of the 2nd Amendment. Now if SCOTUS would do the same, and rule all the gun control from 1934 to present as unconstitutional, THAT WOULD BE GREAT!
10 4 Will.
Yes it would be very nice to see IL’s FOID card go down in flames
I am all for gun laws to keep guns out of the wrong hands, but I also believe that people that can’t get a gun due to a felony, should be allowed to get a license after 20 years, and not having had any problems, especially if it was a non-violent..as it is now, anybody that has EVER HAD A FELONY can’t ever have a gun? that’s just plain stupid imho. In my case, i had a stupid case of giving drugs away over 20 years ago because i didn’t want them in my house (i was an idiot, should… Read more »
this is good news, my FOID expires next Sept. save me $10!
….and freedom of speech should only apply to documents written with goose quill pens, and people who do not need a gun don’t have to have one. Felons , the mentally incompetent , ‘etc. Are prohibited by law from possessing firearms already, so what’s your point?
There needs to be a citizens March on the states Capitol 8n favor of there second Amendment rights
IGOLD it was this past wednesday 27MAR19
If there is one state that I hate to go through it is Illinois and I use the shortest way home by going through there, my cousin just visited Chicago for a week and I asked if she had suicidal tendencies, I wouldn’t go there on a heavy money bet!!!!!!!
I definitely don’t blame you… I live in Chicago and it is the worse ♀️
Illinois stinks, I would not live in Illinois if they paid me to live there.
It suxs demogods rule Illinois higher taxes highest KILLINGS when will it end
Fifty years ago I worked for a gun store in Springfield, IL. The owner liked the FOID because how else does a retailer verify a potential customer is not prohibited. Without a card the store could refuse service without being sued for discrimination. But the State of Illinois [ Chicago ] went further and added waiting periods and other requirements. Today with a NICS system the potential buyer can be confirmed in minutes. The State of Illinois duplicates the NICS checks just to make buying a gun more difficult than buying other weapons used in crime, namely the gold club.… Read more »
Just one of the MANY reasons I left Illinois and moved south.
Any American citizen can possess a firearm for home protection and so forth as provided in the 2nd amendment…….
EVEN FELONS DRUG OFFENDERS NON VIOLENT…… IT DON’T MATTER WHAT STATE YOU LIVE IN… THE CONSTITUTION TRUMPS ANY STATE LOCAL OR FEDERAL LAW THAT WOULD ATEMPT TO UNDERMINE OUR FREEDOMS …… of course they think they can attest you jail you but you will win….. Or you just shoot anyone who attempts to take away your second amendment RIGHTS. ITS LOOKING LIKE ITS ABOUT THAT TIME
Any American citizen can possess a firearm for home protection and so forth as provided in the 2nd amendment…….
EVEN FELONS DRUG OFFENDERS NON VIOLENT…… IT DON’T MATTER WHAT STATE YOU LIVE IN… THE CONSTITUTION TRUMPS ANY STATE LOCAL OR FEDERAL LAW THAT WOULD ATEMPT TO UNDERMINE OUR FREEDOMS …… of course they think they can attest you jail you but you will win….. Or you just shoot anyone who attempts to take away your second amendment RIGHTS. ITS LOOKING LIKE ITS ABOUT THAT TIME
Damn right it’s about time!!
Ya! To not have to renew would be nice! Taking my CCL enough time for approval! My FatherInLaw moved this year and he has like 8 years left on his. His options are PAY $80 for an address change! Or report lost and atolen pay $10 renew… But then he would not be able to own guns while he waits for his new card… WTF!?!?! IL is unbelievable!
Does anyone have any ideas on military members serving in IL, but from a home state that isn’t recognized by IL CCW permits? I am active duty, stationed in IL. I can have a FOID, but not a CCW. I think that’s annoying, first off, and the fact that I CANNOT under any circumstances get a CCW permit is insane.
I don’t understand why military are not already, “grand fathered” in to a conceal carry!
The FOID system is incredibly flawed. I renewed my CCW permit in February. When they issued my new ccw card, they also added two extra digits to my FOID card number but did not send me a new FOID card. I learned about this error at my ffl when I was trying to fulfill a transfer on a new pistol. We were running the FOID number off my card and couldn’t get a confirmation from the ISP website. I finally logged into my ISP account and noticed two extra digits were added to my FOID number in the ISP database.… Read more »
Gods watching this, and the ball is in his court now so lets see this slam dunk go out with a blaze…. god be with Illinois.
Maybe we should just go back to the days when it was written? And use only the weapons they were available back then. I am for law abiding citizens to be able to get a gun but you all act like everybody on God’s green earth has the right and I’m sorry but there is some people that dont need a gun.
“RIGHTS” trumps NEED! “SHALL NOT be INFRINGED.”
Puckle guns for everybody!
….and freedom of speech should only apply to documents written with goose quill pens, and people who do not need a gun don’t have to have one. Felons , the mentally incompetent , ‘etc. Are prohibited by law from possessing firearms already, so what’s your point?
“Felons , the mentally incompetent , ‘etc. Are prohibited by law from possessing firearms”.
Wouldn’t that violate the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution? As I recall, the last four words of the 2nd amendment state,,,”Shall not be infringed”.
Would you want a mentally unstable person carrying a gun? We love guns, but we have to keep people safe from hurting themselves or others.
No, if you read the 1788-89 Senate and the various proposals, criminals, etc were mentioned and excluded.
@ejt Weber, are felons still felons after they have paid their debt to society?
What is mentally incompetent, how long does it last, and who says so. If we are to get to a logical conclusion, we must not debate in generalities.
Weber, and all. “Felons, mentally” are now catchwords to cause irrational thinking that is working for the anti-gun rights even on the pro-gun rights. Citizens allowed in open society should not have rights infringed. Bear in mind, our enemies wants all of us to be prohibited persons. Remember even misdemeanor domestic violence charges can cause entire family units becoming prohibited persons. One person is allowed to lose rights then all of us may be allowed. Like a deadly infectious disease it can spread easily and quickly. Now, before doing a knee-jerk dance, try not to loose rational thought and think… Read more »
The whole purpose of the second amendment was to make sure the people were not overpowered by their own government or someone else’s government unless the military would go back to guns of 1776 the people shouldn’t have to either
@D., Back then I would have killed my opponent with an edged weapon. In fact when Cain slew Able the gun had not even been invented, yet. Ergo the problem is clearly not with the inanimate gun. And that “… some people don’t need a gun.” part. Who gets to decide that? You? Well, here is my decision: You don’t need access to the internet. You don’t need a motor vehicle. You don’t need electricity. You don’t need modern plumbing. You don’t need more than ten lbs of rice per month. See how easy it is? And I don’t even… Read more »
You are 100% correct! I’m 12 years old a have shot over 50 guns. I believe the government will keep trying to bring us to the thought that we don’t need these constitutionaly protected machines. I think people will only come to the conclusion that we need to assert our power as the people of this beautiful country. Go Merica!!
The right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED UPON!! How hard is that for anyone to understand!? If you are an American citizen, the Constitution of the United States says you can buy and keep any weapons you want. That cannot be taken away from any of us!! Anyone trying to do so is committing treason against the Constitution! And that is punishable by death!! Sic Vis Pacum Parabellum!!!!!!
Anything to squeeze families every last dollar. In Illinois
Luckily all my guns are in another state I which i wii be residing soon. I mistakenly forgot to renew my illinois foid car upon its renewal time and received a revoked status not only for my foid card but also for my active ccl! The ironacy is that I took the letter to the local police Dept because I thought it was a bogus request and thought they should look into it, they promptly confiscated my current active ccl and came out to my rural home to confiscate my guns that were already in another state… Folis it’s here,… Read more »
I would gladly go back to using only weapons that were available when the Constitution was written, if the government would do it too.