Ryan Whitaker Shot by Police for having a Gun in Phoenix, AZ – Video

U.S.A.-(AmmoLand.com)- May 21, 2020, at about 10:53 p.m, in Phoenix's Ahwatukee Foothills neighborhood, officers are responding to a noise complaint thinly disguised as a domestic violence incident. The complainant is desperate to get to sleep because he has to get up to go to work. He tells the dispatcher at 10:18 it is a domestic altercation. The exact time of the second call is not given, but the caller says it is a half-hour after the first call.

In the second call, the caller makes clear this is a noise complaint.  He is asked if this is a male and a female in a verbal. From what police have released of the call (includes  graphic video of the shooting) :

Complainant:

Yeah, and its getting really loud and they been doing it for the last hour. I gotta get it to work tomorrow, and I can't get no sleep. 

These guys have been noisy constantly… Every time I come back, these guys are noisier than hell.  Always fighting. 

Dispatcher:

Okay does it sound like it's escalated to anything physical or still just sound verbal?

Complainant:

Oh. It could be physical, I..I could say yeah if that makes anybody hurry up on, get over here any faster.

Dispatcher:

Anything to indicate it might be physical?

Complainant:

I hear slamming of doors and… I don't know. Somebody could be gettin' thrown into a door for all I know. But I hear all kinds of banging.

The police go to the apartment. Officers take up positions on each side of the door, well separated. One officer knocks on the door, and announces “Phoenix police”, in a slightly elevated voice.

About 12 seconds later, the door is opened. Ryan Whitaker, a white male, 40 years old, answers the door. He is holding a semiautomatic pistol in his right hand, down at his side. He moves the pistol behind his back, so as not to alarm the person outside.  He takes one step outside the door.

His girlfriend has since said they did not know it was the police at the door.

What Ryan does not know, is the officer behind him can see he is holding a pistol, when he moves it behind his back. The officer in front has blinded Ryan with his tactical light. It seems to be standard practice. In spite of, or perhaps because of this, Ryan seems to immediately figure out this is the police. Ryan says “Hey! Hey!  as he takes a step back and drops into a submissive position on the threshold of his apartment.

It appears the officer behind him has already made the decision to shoot. Ryan has his left hand outstretched in submission. He may already have placed the pistol on the floor, as he drops down.

The officer behind him fires three shots.  The time stamp on the video as the first shot is fired is 5:52:39Z (Greenwich Meantime) or 10:52:39 p.m. in Phoenix.  As Ryan raises his right hand to his chest, the pistol is not in it.  Two of the three shots have entered Ryans back.

Image from police body camera video, cropped, scaled and text added by Dean Weingarten

Within four seconds, the older officer who knocked on the door has his pistol drawn and pointed at Ryan.

His girlfriend comes out, after being assured she would not be shot. She immediately wails: Why did you shoot him?

An officer says: “He pulled a pistol on us.”

She says: “It is dark, and he is answering the door.”

Later she explains they were playing a loud video game and there was no domestic violence.

Ryan is on the floor. Other police arrive. No one attempts to stop the bleeding or render any aid. It is 12 minutes before any medical attention is given to Ryan.

Ryan Whitaker is doing nothing illegal or immoral. This is Phoenix, Arizona, where the Second Amendment is more respected than in most of the United States. This is not New York City, where police had a reputation of shooting anyone they saw who had a gun, because they assumed, if they had a gun, it was illegitimate.

Holding a gun in your hand, at your side, is not “pulling a gun on us”.

Has the officer who shot been trained to shoot every time they see someone with a gun in their hand?

The case illustrates the time lag between when a decision to shoot is made and the actual shots. It is likely the decision to shoot was made by the officer at about the same time Ryan starts to drop down to his knees. By the time the actual shots are fired, Ryan has dropped down, extended his left hand in submission, and very likely placed the pistol on the floor.

Was this a form of swatting? Swatting is when false information is given to elicit a police response on innocent people.  It is not clear the complainant knew their complaint was false. It seems they were desperate to get some sleep and were willing to find a way to satisfy the dispatcher in order to justify the emergency response. Anyone who has had loud neighbors can sympathize with their desire for resolution.

It looks as though an irritated neighbor, a dispatcher who may have been a bit leading in their questions, and poor judgment on the part of a police officer came together to cost an innocent man his life.

Police have a difficult job. There are probably fifty to a hundred million police interactions with the public each year. A few of them are bound to become disasters. In my opinion, the Ryan Whitaker shooting is a much clearer disaster than the George Floyd arrest.

While Ryan did not do anything illegal, are their lessons to be learned from his shooting and death?

Opening your door, at night, to an unknown visitor, is a known risk. People know this. It is why people answering the door commonly have firearms in hand.  A retired Phoenix Assistant Phoenix Police chief, Andy Anderson, says this, as reported by wqad.com:

Anderson said that breaking down the scenario frame-by-frame isn't what the officers had at the moment.

“We may see some things that the officer did not see or perceive at the time because of that delay between action and reaction,” Anderson said.

When Whitaker came to the door with the gun in his hand, the officers are put into a split-second, life or death scenario, Anderson said.

Being confronted by police officers, unexpectedly, after dark, put Ryan  Whitaker into a split-second, life or death scenario, it appears.

Guns are common, and access to them a cherished right in Arizona. People having guns in their hand when answering an unknown visitor, late at night, is common. Virtually anywhere the Second Amendment is respected, police should expect innocent homeowners to be armed when they answer the door.

Being in close proximity to the unknown visitor places you at risk, whether you are armed or not. It is hard to secure the door if you must open it to see who is outside.

Ryan's girlfriend says he looked out the peep-hole and did not see anyone there. That put him on a higher level of alert.  There were only 12 seconds between the knock and Ryan opening the door. The officer's tactical positioning may have placed them out of the range of the peep hole.

A better system is to have a surveillance camera. If he wanted to see who was outside, he had to open the door. There wasn't a security door, to place a barrier between the person inside and the person outside. Any of those things might have prevented the deadly interaction with police which followed Ryan's opening of the door. Even a chain on the door, and looking through the crack, when the door is opened, might have prevented this tragedy. Stepping outside his door made Ryan more vulnerable.

If Ryan had known the police were outside his apartment, he, very likely, would have acted differently.  A mere verbal “Phoenix Police” is not enough, even if it were louder. An officer visible in the peep-hole or security door would have allowed a more complete evaluation.  At a minimum, an officer should be visible through a peephole. Does Phoenix police training suggest they hide from view like criminals?   We will likely find out.

The edited Body camera footage was released on 15 July. We can see why the police were reluctant to release the footage.  This strategy by the police has been shown to be a losing strategy. The lack of transparency by the police leads people to believe the police are hiding something.

Body cameras, ubiquitous cell phone video, security cameras are all moving us into an age where there will be little privacy in urban areas. Police, in particular, will have all of their actions recorded and scrutinized.

Ryan Whitaker paid a high price in what appears to be a police over-reaction. Video does not tell everything, but there seems to be little else in this situation. If Ryan had a record of violence, it would have emerged by now. There is no indication Ryan was a threat to the police.

The service records of the police are not yet public. There is an ongoing lawsuit. The officer who shot Ryan has been with the Phoenix PD for three years. He is said to be 30+ years old. We will see if he was trained in a state which does not respect the Second Amendment, such as California or New Jersey.

These situations, as shocking as they are, as tragic as they are, are rare and infrequent.

At about this time last year, the Phoenix PD had shot 10 people and killed 8 in 2019. As explained in this article in the Phoenix New Times a year ago, the Phoenix PD has an unusually high level of police involved shootings and deaths.

Shootings of citizens who answer a door, by criminals, and home invasions by criminals, are far more common that the shooting of a legitimately armed citizen at the door, by police. Phoenix is a large, urban department. Large, urban departments have more crime and more incidents. Even so, the level of police shootings in Phoenix is considerably higher than average. The world is not a perfect place.

Overall, the United States police are professional, competent, and careful.

I discussed this incident with a retired police officer who has been involved in hundreds of incidents where a person who was not the police, was armed.  He was a firearms and tactics trainer for much of his career.

I did not tell him any conclusions I had. First, he watched the body camera video from the officer who did not shoot. His conclusion was the video was inconclusive, because we could not see Ryan's right hand after he stepped back.

Then he watched the video from the body camera of the officer who shot.

He said: “He shot too soon. The Phoenix PD is going to be paying out a lot of money. ”

The job of a policeman is getting more difficult, and less rewarding.

The more the police lose the trust of the population, the harder their job becomes. We need to stop that downward spiral. It can and has been done. The far left has demonized the police all out of proportion. The United States has made great progress in the last 50 years.

Defunding the police is not the answer. More transparency and accountability is. We are moving in that direction.


About Dean Weingarten:Dean Weingarten

Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of Constitutional Carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.

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Gerry is an expert
Gerry is an expert
2 months ago

Guys leave Gerry alone, he’s clearly an expert with 30 years of high quality experience. Though he has successfully trained many others in the past it is obvious that his teachings are just too divine for you and so you do not understand. Instead, let Gerry show us all the way to a brighter and happier future where our families and loved ones can rest peacefully in their graves knowing these innocent officers weren’t outrageously punished for the simple job of ending someone’s life.

WI Patriot
WI Patriot
2 months ago

On March 24th, 2020, at approx 2130hrs, I heard a knock at my door, living where I do, extremely rural, 600′ back off the road(house NOT visible from road), behind a gated driveway, I grabbed my .357 and cautiously answered the door, only to see a count sheriff deputy and a women from the medical examiners office to inform me that they received a request from another dept elsewhere in the state to come and inform me that my mother had passed…while the .357 was NOT visible(behind my back), and I stayed behind the door frame, I quietly informed the… Read more »

Last edited 2 months ago by WI Patriot
Get Out
Get Out
3 months ago

IMOA, After watching the video Whitaker had zero reaction time to comply to the LEO’s panicking yells for him to drop the weapon, in fact his weapon was at his side and then behind his back when he stepped out and after getting the light shined into his eyes he immediately held out his arms with his gun hand inside the apartment and dropping down to his knees and moving back into the apartment. Appears the LEO behind still panicking after seeing the gun shot him in the back when the gun had not been pointed at either LEO. IMOA,… Read more »

Last edited 3 months ago by Get Out
FORD Will
FORD Will
3 months ago

THAT IS A BAD shoot

BigJim
BigJim
3 months ago

Looks like a bad shoot to me.

james
james
3 months ago

Neighbor should be charged with Manslaughter and making false 911 call for the inaccurate information on the second call.

james
james
3 months ago

If the PD was responding to a domestic, one of them should have had LTL aka Taser low ready instead of his service weapon.
He killed that citizen for NO legitmate reason and on top of that, no first aid until ambulance arrived and he was DRT.

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  james

Ridiculous. Period. Do you teach tactics? I want to be sure to avoid your classes.

American Patriot
American Patriot
3 months ago

Don’t imagine this would make any news…..the victims are the wrong shade of brown!

Grim
Grim
3 months ago

Hang both of them!!!

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
3 months ago

Well what about the Neighbor? There’s a big difference between Domestic violence and a video game
I’m sure all of us at one time or another have lived next door to THAT COUPLE
Crash bandicoot vs a woman getting beat on ? I’m thinking this goes a little deeper tween the FELLAS in this case.

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
3 months ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

Yep…

Last edited 3 months ago by SEMPAI
Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

The neighbor was being an ass by calling. It may not have been a clear-cut case of swatting, but it had the same result.

Scitalis
Scitalis
3 months ago

Nobody knows what the hell they are talking about. You have no knowledge of what really happened. *He was NOT shot because he had a gun. *He was NOT murdered *Police by law have legal control over all persons at a crime scene when they first arrive. When you encounter police at a crime scene, you are automatically ‘detained’ until identified and cleared not to be a danger. *Because 200 law enforcement officers per year are killed in public encounters, many times by sneak attack, police protect themselves by clearing the people involved. If you do not cooperate, you are… Read more »

Grim
Grim
3 months ago
Reply to  Scitalis

Hang ’em!

JDL
JDL
3 months ago
Reply to  Scitalis

The police have no more right to self defense than any one else. As police officers, they should have been cognizant of the fact that criminals use the “it’s the police” announcement to gain entry frequently enough that the announcement alone is not enough to convince anyone of its validity. No, concealing a gun is not a threatening move. The officers were wrong in this instance, and should be punished accordingly. Obviously it is you who knows not of what he speaks.

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  JDL

Heh. That’s not an argument that would win in court. Concealing a firearm behind one’s leg or other body part IS a threatening move and is met by what happened here.

FORD Will
FORD Will
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

YOURA DICK

Sisu
Sisu
3 months ago
Reply to  Scitalis

What “crime scene” ?

Heed the Call-up
Heed the Call-up
3 months ago
Reply to  Sisu

The one the police created by murdering an innocent citizen.

Finnky
Finnky
3 months ago

@Heed – Exactly. I understood @Sisu to be referring to @scitalis’s statement that police must control a crime scene. There was no crime scene until officer created one. Police do have a right to self defense, however one cannot instigate violence then claim self defense. So many say he “didn’t comply” or did so incorrectly are ignoring that, as in so many cases, victim was thrust into a situation they probably have nevertheless contemplated – and are being expected to instantly comply with unintelligible orders while they are probably just beginnings to grasp that police are there, much less ordering… Read more »

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Finnky

His use of “crime scene” may not be accurate, but the presence of the police gives them the right to be “in charge” on a call like this. The person’s strict compliance with instructions are expected, like it or not, when there is even the hint of violence. Yep, we can put the blame on the caller for that hint – or even the calltaker if you want – but the cops that actually show up have the ultimate responsibility to take action as needed, and they did.

Norm
Norm
2 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

That’s not a “right” to be in charge. It’s a “power“.

Finnky
Finnky
3 months ago
Reply to  Scitalis

@Scittalis – I have encountered police “at the crime scene on numerous occasions. Have never had gun pulled on me, have only been ordered about one, and have only been detained long enough for them to record my ID one. On that last one, officer did not flip out about me reaching into a pocket (to get wallet) – though I’d be far more careful now :(. As others have quite eloquently said – violent overreactions by police are far more frequent than they use during to be, and far more tolerated by people like you (who seem to prefer… Read more »

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Finnky

That is stupid. There is no rash of “violent overreactions by police” – if anything, it’s just the opposite.
The number of shootings by police continues to be a tiny percentage of confrontations with citizens. Even a half-dozen over-publicized encounters is nothing compared to the number of interactions with the public.
If you have “encountered police at the crime scene on numerous occasions” then perhaps you’re the problem. The odds of a person being at even one crime scene in a lifetime is astronomical, yet here you are, making this claim….

Rebel VA
Rebel VA
3 months ago
Reply to  Scitalis

Bullcrap!

Levelhead
Levelhead
3 months ago

Pretty standard training tactics is “you are not obligated to open the door before you are sure who is on the other side.” I can’t fault him for having the gun but it was stupid to open the door before ascertaining who was knocking. The reason for him having the gun is he thought he might have a bad guy on the other side of the door. If he suspected a bad guy, why open the door?

JDL
JDL
3 months ago
Reply to  Levelhead

Probably expected the neighbor and wanted to intimidate him. Still, when he went submissive with the police, they should not have shot him as he was not threatening.

Catatonic
Catatonic
3 months ago
Reply to  Levelhead

Agreed, Levelhead. Not to blame the victim, but it would have been prudent for him to ascertain who was at the door before opening it. There was, apparently, a peephole in the door. OTOH, I understand why the cops didn’t stand directly in front of the door in full view of the peephole. That’s a vulnerable place should someone shoot through the door. Had he called out, questioning their identity, the cops could have shown their badges/IDs through the peephole without exposing themselves in front of the door. Had these few precautions been taken by all concerned, this tragedy might… Read more »

wil
wil
3 months ago

at one point in this article a comparison was made to the george floyd killing, why? i think the point that the police shouldn’t be killing unarmed or armed but not threatening citizens is wrong. obviously it’s bigger than race even though disproportionate.

Heed the Call-up
Heed the Call-up
3 months ago
Reply to  wil

Disproportionate, as in more whites are killed by police than blacks, even though blacks are more likely to be arrested?

NiCkNaMe
NiCkNaMe
3 months ago

This is the standing army we were warned about not our security force.

“Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.” Henry St George Tucker

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago

BULLSHIT! The 911 operator (NOT a dispatcher) MUST question people in what you know-nothings call a “leading manner” or they’d never find out what the hell is going on. The officers announced themselves clearly and properly. Period. Answering the door when the cops are there with a gun is an invitation to getting shot. Period. The deceased dropped down toward the floor, but then stared straight at the officer in front of him and started back up quickly. Why? Yes, this is Phoenix, Arizona, a place where the Second Amendment is still alive and well, no thanks to anyone from… Read more »

Sisu
Sisu
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

That’s a pretty mean piece of “second-guessing by an armchair quarterback”; you’ve an answer for each question you asked. Case Closed – “Gerry, the Divine” has spoken.

You should do a bit of soul searching to understand where your pent up anger is founded. … I hope you’re not an LEO; and please for society’s sake Do Not “carry” today.

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Sisu

I am a subject expert, and I have been called “divine” in the past… Anger? Heh. Not something I’d waste here. I spent over 30 years as a police officer, as if that’s anyone’s business. I’ve been to all the training. I conducted some of the training, for that matter, as an FTO. What these cops did was textbook. Unfortunately, the line these days is “the cops aren’t better than anyone else” and “They don’t have the right to do (fill in the blank) just because they’re cops” and so on, as if everyone either knows more about what the… Read more »

Heed the Call-up
Heed the Call-up
2 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

“[T]he line these days is ‘the cops aren’t better than anyone else'”. As we live in an egalitarian society, no one is better than anyone else, including police and politicians, regardless of how they feel about that. I have been called “divine” in the past Only by one of your other personalities, Sybil. Here we have another name for people like you. your opinion isn’t worth sh*t. Your projection and pouting are almost amusing. Sadly, that is all Leftists seem to have, childish reactions and emotional hand-wringing. Rational thoughts and facts are part of the real world that Leftists are… Read more »

Tionico
Tionico
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

Its a good thing NO ONE has ever impersonated the police as they were attempting to gain entry into an otherwise secured domicile. I don’t go looking for this sort of thing but I recall reading close to a dozen such incidents where criminals faked being cops, sometimes even wearing costumes to mimic the cops. Ayone else remember the case in INdiana someyears back where an armed homeowner shot and killed a real police officer who breached his door unannouned? He was charged with cop urder, but the jury acquitted. Then Indiana changed their law, making it certain that a… Read more »

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Tionico

Absolutely true. A-holes DO impersonate the police. It IS vital that the homeowner verify who they are opening the door to. But you can’t be doing it by opening the door with a gun in hand and then dick around with crouching and hiding it behind your back.

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

I can agree with many of your points especially cops announcing at the door, If I was heading to the door with my 1911 and heard this is the police , I would have put my gun down and did some more research via security camera or talking thru door before I opened it. Hell I almost shot a damn cooler that fell in my shed just 2 nights ago..I told that cooler bout his ass too..

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
3 months ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

Nice

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

Exactly. Thank you.

Finnky
Finnky
3 months ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

@OV – can only imagine reaction to that by original complainant. He was hoping for peace & quiet…
I’ll bet if cops used a bullhorn, it would have been the last time he called for a noise complaint. As it is, I suspect it’s the last time he calls the cops. That or he got the outcome he was hoping for and becomes a frequent caller.

JDL
JDL
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

Wow, you are as dumb as they come…and then some! Almost everything you said is incorrect.

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  JDL

I’ll put my experience up against yours any time. I spent over 30 years on the job. What’s your excuse?

Finnky
Finnky
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

@Gerry – Yes a 911 operator must question in order to elicit required info. They also must exercise judgement in interpreting answers, particularly in light of leading questions. In response to domestic violence question, caller hemmed and hawed before saying “if it will get you here faster”. How dense does one have to be to not understand that response? I’ve spoken with both good and mediocre operators. Probably the best did a great job with leading questions to help determine where I was. As half asleep passenger in a car on an unfamiliar highway – I wasn’t much help. However… Read more »

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Finnky

True on all points. I’d love to see a transcript of the call, or better yet a recording. There is no doubt that dispatchers and 911 calltakers must be right 100% of the time, just like the cops themselves.

Get Out
Get Out
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

Didn’t you watch the video, the two 911 calls are on it?

Bob
Bob
3 months ago

My takeaway as a homeowner is: (1) don’t open the door, (2) call 911 to confirm if police are at my address and if so why, (3) request police stand in view of peephole before I open the door, (4) finally, I would demand to know who “swatted” me and file a lawsuit to find out (so it doesn’t happen again). The cop who shot him in the back is a clear case of 2nd degree murder.

Last edited 3 months ago by Bob
Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Bob

You were right until you threw in that “murder” bullshit.

Heed the Call-up
Heed the Call-up
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

It wasn’t murder? He just inappropriately terminated his life? oopsy? If that was your spouse or other family member the officer offed, you would just meekly go away and not want him charged for the murder?

JPM
JPM
3 months ago

The cop murdered the guy. The victim was kneeling, raised his empty hand and was placing the gun on the ground with the SOB behind him murdered him. No excuses. The killer needs to be in jail and off the streets. If he’s that trigger happy he shouldn’t have been allowed on the force in the first place and now he belongs in jail. This is why people hate the police, this incompetent moron with a badge gives all LEOs an undeserved bad rap and needs to be made an example of for both the safety of the public and… Read more »

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  JPM

Bullshit. Period.

Grim
Grim
3 months ago
Reply to  JPM

Right on, JPM!

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
3 months ago

Training for the police these days sucks. When I was a police officer back in the 1970’s we were trained to shoot only if we saw an IMMEDIATE danger of being harmed by an assailant. That means that if someone has a gun, the gun literally has to be pointed at us or is obvioiusly being brought up to do so. I bet that this cop was ex military where everyone is viewed as an enemy combatant overseas. Shoot and ask questions later is a common problem in Iraq and other occupied areas by the US military. Then they come… Read more »

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

You obviously don’t know what the eff you’re talking about. Don’t embarrass yourself with foolishness like this.

FORD Will
FORD Will
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

Obliviously people dis-agree with your comments. You are are pompous jackass. Did you learn that on the job.

Heed the Call-up
Heed the Call-up
3 months ago
Reply to  FORD Will

Obviously he has not learned anything yet; apparently his nappie is dirty and its daddy-mommy is too busy getting stoned to notice (or care).

Finnky
Finnky
3 months ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

@CL – Regarding your ex-military comment, I have read and heard the complete opposite on more than one occasion. People who have served in both roles state that they are far freer to use their weapons as cops. As you say, one would expect the opposite, particularly for troops anywhere near a war zone.

As for the rest, I concur.

Fed-Up
Fed-Up
3 months ago

Come on wh ite people! When are we going to rise up and loot a Bass Pro or a Home Depot? (Sarcasm)

Heed the Call-up
Heed the Call-up
3 months ago
Reply to  Fed-Up

Sorry, can’t make it, I have a job and want to keep it.

Old Vet
Old Vet
3 months ago

This was the perfect storm for swatting a guy, I think. The officer’s came in a heighten state because of it being a “domestic” call. Those are notorious for going badly from the outset in many cases. I think maybe the officer behind might have been freaked by the gun and reacted accordingly. Too many should have’s and could have’s in this one. Shared fault?? I would not want to be a jurist on this one.

Stripeseven
Stripeseven
3 months ago

In the back……..

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
3 months ago
Reply to  Stripeseven

That is the most sickening part of this whole story.

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

Yeah, because everyone knows the good guys always let the bad guys shoot first. Jeez.

Tionico
Tionico
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

Gerry you need to get someprofessional help. You are dead set on the position that the hair-trigger coppers are totally devoid of any fault. Instead ofwalking up to the door and announcing their copper presence, how’s about standing outside, out of sight, and LISTENING for a while? This “conflict” had been “raging” for an hour since the first phone call, right? No one was dead yet, right? How’s about the cops put their EARS to the place and FIGURE OUT what’s really going on? It should have been clear that the “noise” was coming from a machjine, and not real… Read more »

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Tionico

Your characterization of the cops as “hair trigger” is an insult. Telling me I need help because I know what I’m talking about is also an insult. Eff you, period. You’re interpretation of police training, tactics, people’s perception of things, etc., is not the reality of what it’s like to be a cop. There’s your “reality check.” Walk a mile in their shoes in the 5th-largest city in the United States, with shootings of all kinds on a daily basis, cops shot at at least once or twice per week, in a state where everyone has a gun. Everyone. If… Read more »

FORD Will
FORD Will
3 months ago
Reply to  Tionico

It will not help him.

Glocktarded
Glocktarded
3 months ago

“Overall, the United States police are professional, competent, and careful.”

Yet they keep murdering innocent people.

Heed the Call-up
Heed the Call-up
3 months ago
Reply to  Glocktarded

Whites are responsible for half the murders in the USA. Overall, white people are law-abiding, but yet they keep murdering innocent people. Your screen name is fitting.

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
3 months ago

60 % of america non Hispanic whites responsible for 1/ 2 of all murders. this is true
But with a 13% of the population being African Americans they are responsible for the other half
BIGGGGG DIFFERENCE between 60 % population wise and 13%
Just sayin ..none of it’s good
White on white crime statistics is 84 %
Black on black crime 94%
Indegionus and Asian fill in the rest
Read it online for whatever that’s worth..lol

Last edited 3 months ago by SEMPAI
CourageousLion
CourageousLion
3 months ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

#saythename

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
3 months ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

Trying to send link by title but keep getting invalid field??
Probably some Keywords or something
Matter of fact e mailed ammoland to ask what’s this mean?
Just Google it as I did you will find plenty of these stats , once again (Internet ) at end of my post for whatever that’s worth.
Thank you for your service as an L.E.O. for knuckleheads like me in the 70s

Heed the Call-up
Heed the Call-up
3 months ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

I was mocking the OP’s statement concerning the death of innocents at the hands of LEOs, but it is true that about half the murders in the USA are due to white assailants. His implication is that police are responsible for the murder rate in the USA – obviously pure bs. Both police and whites have very low rates of crime, especially murder rates. Sometimes we have to treat “people” like him like we do dogs – shove their noses in it so they understand.

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
3 months ago

Roger that my misunderstsnding..my apologies

Finnky
Finnky
3 months ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

– Seems @heed’s point slipped by you. Cops kill far too many people, that does not make every single cop bad any more than the fact white people commit a large fraction of murder so makes all white people evil. There was even a bit of sarcasm there, as fraction of murder suspect appears large until you compare to fraction of population. Seemed to me @heed was just throwing out numbers – as if I said 80% of people commit 55% of crimes! There may be aproblem among the 80%, but it is not “the problem”.

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
3 months ago
Reply to  Finnky

@Finnky
Glad your here… back up to last nights post where the 2 clowns are pointing guns at the truck you know the one where you assumed I’m BAR FIGHT GUY? Cause obviously that assessment of me slipped by you so take a minute to look at my answer and who I am and what I do after work and don’t ever ASSUME things about me and I won’t assume things about you

Last edited 3 months ago by SEMPAI
jack mac
jack mac
3 months ago

Whites can not be responsible for half the murders, as another race is responsible for over half.

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Glocktarded

No, they don’t. With a screen name like that. I’d expect you wouldn’t parrot the liberal press. Yet here you are.

FORD Will
FORD Will
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

Im sad ammoland does not have a BLOCK FEATURE…YOU NEED to be blocked.

Heed the Call-up
Heed the Call-up
3 months ago
Reply to  FORD Will

No, I would rather, as he did, out himself, and be seen.

Deplorable Bill
Deplorable Bill
3 months ago

This is MURDER, there’s no other way to describe it. You have the RIGHT and you have good reason to answer a knock on your door with a gun. The victim did NOT pull his gun he mearly took it with him to the door. In Az. that is legal, in the middle of the night that is prudent. I would have answered the door the same way. Here in Phoenix there is/was a group of home invaders who dress as cops; uniforms, badges, radios and guns. There’s NO REASON TO BELIEVE IT’S THE COPS EVEN IF THEY SAY THEY… Read more »

Finnky
Finnky
3 months ago

@DB – w When caller said “if it will get them to respond faster” that should have been red flag to the dispatcher. Only a brain dead moron would not have recognized the meaning in that statement. Which two are you proposing life sentence for? Shooter definitely for murder. Other cop I’d say a shorter time for depraved indifference. What about caller and criminally incompetent dispatcher – what are you proposing for them? My expectation is that no one will be charged, and there will be no riots or even peaceful protests. All except riots should occur! Anyone pick up… Read more »

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Finnky

Idiots say that to calltakers all the time. They didn’t dispatch it as an armed fight. They used the proper terminology. What you people don’t seem to understand is that yes, we can all carry guns out here in the AZ, but that’s also the downside. The cops are guaranteed to face a percentage of armed people every day. Do you think they should just let everyone shoot them first? Murder, my ass. The only thing murdered here is what you just did to the law.

KDude
KDude
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

You know, I’ve seen you all up and down this thread jamming your views down people’s throats as if you’re some kind of authority on these matters. Yes. Absolutely cops are guaranteed to face a percentage of armed people every day. That’s the law. And our right to keep and bear arms. One of the precious few outlined in our Bill Of Rights, and state laws here in AZ. Enough so, that it ought to clearly be understood this right preempts law enforcement at large. That is, my right to keep and bear arms comes first over law enforcement’s activities,… Read more »

RoyD
RoyD
3 months ago
Reply to  KDude

“On my property, in my home, my rights come first.”

True, unless you are crosswise with the compelling interest of the State. Look it up.

An example: Your neighbor hears sounds of a beating coming from inside your house and threats by you to kill somebody. Guess what, the police are probably going to come through your door when they get there and hear the same thing.

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  KDude

Yes, I am an “expert.” Thanks for asking.
The rest of your reply is gibberish. Acting foolish with a firearm for no other reason than you think it’s your “right” is a guaranteed losing proposition. I don’t need to be an “expert” to point that out.

Finnky
Finnky
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

– Let’s do a thought experiment. Let us pretend cops can and do shoot every armed person they encounter. Now let us consider the response of said armed people. Would it not be true that in this situation every armed person who is not a uniformed LEO (including off duty or retire LEO), not only can but should shoot every uniformed officer on sight – because that officer is an existential threat which cannot be avoided by any other means.

Do you think even the most rabid roided-up LEO would appreciate such a world?

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Finnky

Don’t be stupid. Every right comes with responsibility, even if it’s nothing more than don’t act like an idiot.
Straw man arguments are the first sign of a losing position, BTW.

Finnky
Finnky
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

@Gerry – Finally we agree on something. Cops have a right to use deadly force when necessary and to carry the implements therefor. With that right comes great responsibility to exercise that right only when necessary. It was clearly unnecessary in this instance. They (police) also have a responsibility (morally if not legally) to render aid when necessary and possible. Given time required for exsanguination, ignoring a gunshot victim for twelve minutes is inexcusable, unless he was unmistakably dead and unresponsive the moment he was shot. Would be quite interested in that aspect of coroners report. Your attitude reminds me… Read more »

Mack
Mack
3 months ago

Dean, you write:

“The more the police lose the trust of the population, the harder their job becomes.”

There is a simple solution to all this: a full-scale return to Robert Peel’s Principles of Policing.

See here:

https://lawenforcementactionpartnership.org/peel-policing-principles/

https://www.durham.police.uk/About-Us/Documents/Peels_Principles_Of_Law_Enforcement.pdf

jack mac
jack mac
3 months ago
Reply to  Mack

Sir Peel’s policing principles was established for the benefit of the Crown, and adapted in the US during the same time frame of 1829. Enforcement organizations serving themselves and the governing that hire them should not exist in our free society, but does. The longer citizen allow rights repressing laws requiring and allowing oppressive law enforcement more abuse by officials will occur.

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Mack

Better idea: a media that doesn’t try to turn every police-public encounter into Rodney King.
Politicians that don’t enact BS laws and then demand that the police enforce them – and when everything goes wrong with it (like it usually does) don’t blame the cops for the politicians’ screwup.

Grigori
Grigori
3 months ago

Gotta love how they edited out the killer’s face. The victims, not so much.

Last edited 3 months ago by Grigori
Finnky
Finnky
3 months ago
Reply to  Grigori

– They almost certainly expect that Ryan had friends and family who might take it personally when the murder is acquitted under “qualified” immunity. There are many who claim vengeance is theirs. Would they be justified? You be the judge.

Get Out
Get Out
3 months ago

I speak to LEO only through the door if they come calling, especially at night, I never open up or go outside for anyone unless I’m absolutely sure of who they are.

Cea
Cea
3 months ago
Reply to  Get Out

Exactly! Especially if you didn’t hear that is the police. If someone is knocking/beating on your door, any time of the day, arm up and call the cops. That call would have informed him that it WAS the cops outside.
Not saying that any of this is right in any way. Just that I never answer the door at night…nobody I know would be at my door without calling to inform me. They don’t call, they stand outside. Simple.
Swatting neighbor should go down for this in addition to any other wrong doing individuals.

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
3 months ago
Reply to  Cea

Hell, I don’t open the door during the DAY unless I am damn sure of who it is. PERIOD! And since I reside out in the country, I ALWAYS carry, even at home, in the garage, out in the yard…!

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Get Out

Nothing wrong with that at all. Better than opening the door with a gun.
By the way, do the cops knock on your door that often?

Get Out
Get Out
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

Not opening the door allows me to answer with a firearm at the ready if needed. LEO’s came looking for information on the model citizen that lived with family members next door, twice at night and once during the day, guy was in and out of jail or prison. He was primarily the reason for not opening the door to anyone. The family has since moved and there haven’t been any repeat visits.

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Get Out

Good strategy. Seriously. You never know if those neighbors might seek revenge for some imagined offense.

Mack
Mack
3 months ago
Reply to  Get Out

I apply the ‘Caller ID’ analogy to the front OR rear door.

Unless I know the person and in advance why that person is there I won’t answer the door at all.

jack mac
jack mac
3 months ago
Reply to  Get Out

Do not stand directly behind the door, either.

Grigori
Grigori
3 months ago

Retired cop, here. I can’t speak for everywhere, but I noted a trend over thirty years ago where in the name of “officer survival”, itself a laudible goal, fear and paranoia was instilled in us over what a situation “might” be. This was in my state’s training academy in a different part of the country. As things continue on, it seems this irrational fear of the general public that police serve grows greater and more intense for some reason. There ARE situations where you need to be fearful and aggressive. Dealing with everyday citizens, armed or not, who show no… Read more »

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
3 months ago
Reply to  Grigori

Thank you for your service protecting the G.P. some of us still appreciate L.E cause mama raised me right

Last edited 3 months ago by SEMPAI
Grigori
Grigori
3 months ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

Thank You, Sir!

RoyD
RoyD
3 months ago
Reply to  Grigori

I have couple of stories along that line. A year ago my wife and I went to Missoula, Mt to visit my Mother who was 91 at the time and living in a retirement place. As we were driving our rental trying to find the place and not having any luck I saw a Police car parked on the side of a supermarket. I drove up alongside the police car driver to driver to ask for directions. When the older Officer looked up to see what was going on he threw his car into drive and drove forward so that… Read more »

Last edited 3 months ago by RoyD
Grigori
Grigori
3 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

I am sorry for your loss. So glad you did get to see your mother that trip. Lost my Mom, step-Dad, and some really good friends these last few years. I know. It hurts.

gregs
gregs
3 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

seems like the common theme here is “officer scaredness” or as i have heard them say “officer safety”. i understand the uncertainty and danger involved in being a police officer, but to perceive everyone who doesn’t wear your uniform to be an adversary is mentally unsound and perpetuates the us versus them mindset. the average law-abiding citizen encounters as many or more unknown people in a day than police do and we don’t act like that. is this what they are teaching in police academies? the swatting caller should be doxxed so the world knows what an asshole he is… Read more »

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
3 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

Yeah, everyone who wants to ask directions from a cop is a potential hit man…or so it would seem when they react like that!

RoyD
RoyD
3 months ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

Another thing that was funny in a way happened over thirty years ago. I was traveling east on the highway west of my town. I was going over the speed limit by about ten miles an hour. Officer pulled me over and parked about fifty feet behind my car. I got my proof of insurance out of the glove box and popped out of the car as I had done in the distant past the last time I had been stopped and walked back to his car. He had his head down doing something with some paperwork. He looked up… Read more »

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Grigori

You must’ve been lucky. It’s nothing like your experience these days and in a place like this. This is a gun-friendly state… everyone has a gun. The cops get shot at a lot out here. A LOT. They never know who they confront will be armed all they know is some percentage WILL be. Yet all these armchair quarterbacks fail to take that into consideration, either out of ignorance or malice. Oh well.

Grigori
Grigori
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

I was raised around guns and people who regularly carried guns, citizens and cops. My go-to state of mind on seeing an armed person wearing something other than a police uniform was never “OMG, he/she must be a criminal who is only intent on killing me”. I realized that good people carry guns and sometimes with good reason, under certain circumstances, mistake us for bad guys. Unlike some of my contemporaries, I did not automatically crap my pants at the sight of an armed citizen. I understand things are worse now than they were a few years ago and I… Read more »

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  Grigori

Agreed. And it IS different now. I got out in 2014 when it was just starting to turn. Now, in the usual crappy parts of town, it’s not unusual for every encounter to go south quickly. The combination of BLM, politicians and media encouraging “resistance” and plain ol’ entitlement attitudes have changed the routine into a potential fight. The older folks are still OK, and many of them still want cops in the hood. But below a certain age, it’s effed up.

jack mac
jack mac
3 months ago
Reply to  Gerry

I gather you have a self-serving anti-gun attitude. The only weapon of humans is their bodies and anything else used enhances that weapon. Anyone with functional parts of their body is always “armed.” The bodies of humans can be superior or inferior to that of others; a reason for firearms. Your comments are those of a Crown loyalist complacently adhering to the governing; people undesirable in our nation.

Gerry
Gerry
3 months ago
Reply to  jack mac

That’s funny! I have a safe that is overflowing, and that’s all I’m willing to say about that. No, I spent my career defending people’s right to bear arms in a civil and responsible manner. I moved away from my adopted home state of 40 years solely because I could see where they were going regarding gun ownership. Of course, now we have to fight off the gun grabbers in my new home state…..

NiCkNaMe
NiCkNaMe
3 months ago
Reply to  Grigori

And that fear inducing training doesn’t exist for “officer safety” or safety of a suspect.
It exist to keep the police and Government immune from liability suits, by adhering to absurd “legal” standards put forth by activist judges on the Supreme Court.

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
3 months ago

Wait a minute now HE WAS WHITE everybody knows cops don’t shoot white folks ( or so the rioters tell us )
If he was wearing BLM or Antifa gear he would not have been shot.
You know RIOTER PRIVELEGE.

NiCkNaMe
NiCkNaMe
3 months ago
Reply to  SEMPAI

The local BLM group picked this story up almost immediately.

SEMPAI
SEMPAI
3 months ago
Reply to  NiCkNaMe

Hopefully one of the BLM brain surgeons can read it ..now I’m not talking about comprehension, just good old reading.