Obama’s Parting Shot at the Second Amendment

By Jeff Knox

Prohibited Persons
Prohibited Persons
FirearmsCoalition.org
FirearmsCoalition.org

Buckeye, AZ –-(Ammoland.com)- In the final days of the Obama administration, several agencies finalized new rules and regulations that Mr. Obama had been pushing for.

Among those, the Social Security Administration, or SSA, announced that they have finalized rules under which they will be reporting – possibly many thousands of – Social Security benefit recipients to the FBI’s National Instant Check System as “prohibited persons.

Inclusion in NICS means complete loss of all Second Amendment rights, and makes it a felony for the person to possess or have access to any firearm or ammunition – ever.

It also makes a felon of anyone who provides a “prohibited person” access to firearms or ammunition. So parents of developmentally disabled children who receive SSI, and have used shooting and hunting as a family bonding activity, can continue doing that until the child turns 18, at which time, they would be committing a felony if they allowed their ward to touch a gun or ammunition.

Social Security Recipients : What the law says is that “prohibited person” includes anyone: “who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution.” That’s it.

The basis of this “final rule” is a bureaucratic finding that the person is “unable to manage their own affairs.” Just as we’ve seen from the Veterans Administration since the mid-1990s, the SSA is now submitting to NICS the name and identifying information of anyone whom they say is “adjudicated mentally defective” under the 1968 Gun Control Act.

The primary criteria for that determination is that they be an adult who, rather than handling SSA benefits themselves, has a “designated payee” who acts as a fiduciary to manage the person’s benefits. For instance, a person might have sustained a head injury and, as a result, has trouble dealing with numbers, so they have a parent or spouse named as their “designated payee.”

Under the new SSA rules, that person will be labeled as “adjudicated mentally defective” and will be barred from ever holding a gun or ammunition for the rest of their life.

It doesn’t matter to the SSA if the person is fully functional in every other way, if they “can’t manage their own affairs” with SSA, they are considered a “mental defective,” and their name is submitted to NICS.

In some cases, someone who requested a “designated payee” as a matter of convenience, might be able to appeal the NICS submission, but they can only appeal after the submission has been made, and they could be looking at significant time and legal expense. They would also have to remove their guns and ammunition from their home until the matter was resolved. That could be a problem in states like Washington, where any firearm transfer, even just temporarily while sorting out a SSA mistake, must be processed through a licensed dealer, with a per-gun fee, and a required background check.

Assuming the person won their appeal, legally transferring the guns back into their possession would require processing again, including the per-gun fee, and a background check on the person getting his guns back.

The thing that is the most frustrating about this new rule, is that SSA says they are merely obeying a law which received broad bipartisan support, and which was supported by the NRA. The law is called the NICS Improvement Amendment Act of 2007. It was passed in response to the horrible attack at Virginia Tech. One of the provisions of the act requires that government agencies share with NICS the names of people who are prohibited from firearm possession for mental health reasons. Even more frustrating, the law which forbids possession of firearms by “mental defectives” does not say anything about people who can’t manage their own financial affairs.

What the law says is that “prohibited person” includes anyone: “who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution.” That’s it. Nothing about managing financial affairs, etc. But several years ago, the BATFE, promulgated regulations for enforcing that line of the law, and in their definition of terms, they stated that “adjudicated as a mental defective” means:

“A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: Is a danger to himself or to others; or Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs.”

Out of the blue, the BATFE simply added the part about the “capacity to contract or manage his own affairs.” They also stretched the term “adjudicated” to now include rulings by boards, commissions, and “other lawful authority,” which they say includes the bureaucrats at the VA and the SSA.

Where was Congress when this agency took it upon itself to overreach so dramatically.

And where have they been in the subsequent two decades as this unfounded regulation has been used to strip Second Amendment rights from countless, innocent veterans?

Let’s hope that this ruling from the SSA will be the wake-up call Congress needs to finally take action to correct this travesty. Please let your senators and representative know that you want this travesty corrected. The number for the Capitol Switchboard is (202)224-3121.

About:
The Firearms Coalition is a loose-knit coalition of individual Second Amendment activists, clubs and civil rights organizations. Founded by Neal Knox in 1984, the organization provides support to grassroots activists in the form of education, analysis of current issues, and with a historical perspective of the gun rights movement. The Firearms Coalition is a project of Neal Knox Associates, Manassas, VA. Visit: www.FirearmsCoalition.org

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Alan
Alan
4 years ago

Mywife and I have, for some years now, “hired”‘ we pay these people, a financial advisory firm to handle our investments, such as they are. The person we deal directly with contacts us prior to buying or selling securities, but otherwise operates on our behalfs. Based on a view of our actions, our decision to hire this financial advisor, might we be deemed incompetent to own, use and take care of items of personal property, in particular firearms? I wonder.

Alan
Alan
4 years ago

Pardon me for so noting, but if a person has sufficient grasp and awareness of reality to designate another to assist in manageing their financial affairs, and so does, that this individual should be complimented, hopefully they choose wisely, rather than being punished, as certain bureaucratic routines lead one to believe is what would happen, vis-a-VI’s the loss of rights that seemingly follows.

Alan
Alan
4 years ago

Gentlemen: Reading through the foregoing, it strikes me, sadly, that there seems more heat than light generated. I guess that happens when people discuss something they have strongly held views on. That said, please read on, I believe that the following is sad, troubling, and worthy of mention and thought. Looking at what is and has been going on in Washington, DC and to an extent in state capitols too, as well as in some cities, the general structure of the citizens rights and prerogeratives is and has been under attack for some time, in the process the above mentioned,… Read more »

Macofjack
Macofjack
4 years ago

Charles – Saw it too! Good news for starting to get this country back up and running again!

And don’t worry the really Americans on this site are not spelling NAZI’s.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
4 years ago
Reply to  Macofjack

@Macofjaack and Charles, Yep, the pres used Barry Soetoto’s own technique against him, fire fought with fire! The next step is getting the other two branches of government back to doing their jobs.

Charles
Charles
4 years ago

Maybe some of you caught this on the news but President Trump signed an order stopping all of Obama’s last minute mandates. Not looking to attack anyone for their point of view whether right or wrong or correct anyone’s spelling (Greg), but only stating what I heard last night on Fox.

MR. American citizen
MR. American citizen
4 years ago

hi all LOL…this is the 1st time, that i’ve taken, to comment on 1 of these pages, so with that said…i will be honest here i HAVE NOT read all the posts here, i did skim over them, and what i noticed more than anything, is the (BASHING) that you have done to each other (childish) “we are supposed to be adults here”… i’m not a genius nor a moron either!…the point i would like to make is that, i’ve been out of school longer than many of you have been alive …i really don’t care about (mispelled) words or… Read more »

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
4 years ago

Welcome to the site Mr. American citizen! Yep, we are a tough bunch. Grammar and punctuation is important to many of us because we need to know what it is that you are really saying before we unload on you! We need to know if mean ” Let’s get ready to eat, Grandma.” or you mean “let’s get ready to eat grandma.” The author has a special responsibility to respect his audience and convey his intentions to his readership and not place the burden of guessing on his readers. I look forward to reading your thoughts and opinions in the… Read more »

Oldmarine
Oldmarine
4 years ago

When you to run down anyone who doesn’t either spell right or uses what you see as incorrect formatting in communicating either verbally or written then you have shown your ignorance of the very reason for talking or writing. Communications is not a set thing and every language has a set of RULES that are a guide to help do that. The whole purpose of language is to express or transfer a thought to someone. If the thought transfer was successful. When traveling to another country you will sometimes use any method to get your thought understood. You must realize… Read more »

sailboatbum
sailboatbum
4 years ago

He should have said that the color of your skin also prohibits you from owning a firearm.

Jim Macklin
Jim Macklin
4 years ago

http://thehill.com/regulation/administration/315425-trump-white-house-tells-agencies-to-halt-regulations?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=5825 President Trump’s chief of staff, Reince Priebus, issued a memo Friday night telling federal agencies to not issue any more regulations. Hours after his boss was sworn into office, Priebus told the agencies not to send any regulation to the Federal Register until the rule is reviewed and approved by the new president’s appointed agency head. Any rule that’s already been sent to the Office of the Federal Register but not yet published must be withdrawn, the order says. For rules that were published in the last 60 days, Priebus told agencies to publish a notice to delay the… Read more »

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Jim Macklin

It would be interesting to see the outcome on this. I’d appreciate the NRA, for example, pushing for some common sense in having the SSA stick to funds distribution instead of gun enforcement.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
4 years ago
Reply to  Jim Macklin

Trump should be sending an order to all US Attorneys, SES, and Agency heads down to the GS 15 level to send in their resignations. That to is a new president tradition.

Macofjack
Macofjack
4 years ago

Gene Raino – Glad you felt the need to post the same thing six times!! Once on your stupid comment is more than enough!!!

John H
John H
4 years ago

Since it is a proven fact that liberalism is a mental disorder, and its against the law for anyone with mental problems to own a gun I believe the ATFE should just check to see if they are voting democrat and then the ATFE could run out and arrest the crazy bastards !!

Macofjack
Macofjack
4 years ago

jamie – What are you 8 years old? Better lay off the coffee for awhile!

Kristen
Kristen
4 years ago

Technically, a lawyer could argue that all children labeled as ADHD, and dyslexic are “mentally defective.” At this point that’s about half the male population under 16. This is a dangerously ambiguous law.

jamie
jamie
4 years ago

my comments keep vanishing

quit it ammo land

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  jamie

Maybe it’s YOU that’s vanishing!

Just Kidding.

Sometimes a message you write can take forever to get posted. I once wrote a diatribe worthy of novella status and it took over a day to post. I was wondering if I hadn’t deleted it during an unmedicated moment (uh-oh, don’t let the SSA read this)

I’ve seen some really ugly posts, so I don’t believe much gets deleted.

jamie
jamie
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

kind of wondered about the automated moderator thing and 1 key word and you get deleted or even banned

these automated things have no possible way to tell difference between like calling a person a nazi and comparing historical and current events

BJI
BJI
4 years ago

Congress writes a law in general terms. Then the government agency writes the regulations enforcing the law. A law may be one page but the regulations enforcing it may be 100 pages!!!

jamie
jamie
4 years ago
Reply to  BJI

but agencies keep going way beyond enforcing

they keep making new regulations that in reality is making new laws

compare regulations to the actual law they say you now violate and you see thousands of times the regulation actually adds things law never says

Alan
Alan
4 years ago
Reply to  BJI

And therein lies the problem, or might one note. THE PROBLEMS. Seems to me that re the above
comment, re 1 page of law, vs 100 pages of regulations, that The Congress has the absolute responsibility of overseeing the antics of those who “enforce” the law, and write the “regulations” persuant to the laws in enacts. Of course I’m rather old fashioned and stuffy about some things.

Lee
Lee
4 years ago

Not so much about gun control as it is about people control.

jamie
jamie
4 years ago
Reply to  Lee

start doing research and you find the biggest gun control people also support the communist party

gee wonder what they have in mind for my life

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Lee

Actually, Lee, I wish we DID look at it that way. When crime is the result of bad economics or poor infrastructure or any of a dozen reasons our lawmakers take the easy route by blaming and regulaig guns, completely overlooking the real problems.

Alan
Alan
4 years ago
Reply to  Lee

I believe it was the then Suprindent of the N.J. State Police, under former Governor Whitman, in tetimony before the state legislature offered, during said testimony, ” we do not control guns, we control people”.

WayneFromFL
WayneFromFL
4 years ago

I’m none too happy about this. I collect SSI and I chose and by law had to have a family member as a payee due to some problems with my disability and because I do not have the patience to handle a lot of this stuff. Yet I’m still competent to change my own clothes, exercise, bathe myself, make money through odd jobs and cook my own meals and I have an average IQ, a HSD and a trade diploma. Now thanks to this measure I’m completely disarmed since the area I live in has a problem with violent individuals.… Read more »

jamie
jamie
4 years ago
Reply to  WayneFromFL

screw the government

just be 1 more felon

stopping some idiot trying to kill you for pain pills more important than caring what government thinks

really is times must ignore insane laws and regulations

think — if 200 million people go around ignoring insane laws what can the government really do since not that many prison cells exist

jamie
jamie
4 years ago
Reply to  WayneFromFL

people need to ignore insane regulations

not getting killed by some thug wanting your pain pills just way more important than what some desk jockey thinks

if 200 million people ignore insane regulations not much government can do since not have 200 million prison cells

jamie
jamie
4 years ago
Reply to  WayneFromFL

do what you got to do to not get killed from some thug wanting your pain pills

your life more important than what some anti gun government idiot thinks

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  WayneFromFL

Wayne, these regulations are not arbitrary with peeps such as yourself. The regulations allow for circumstance. If you’re as competent as anyone else you have nothing to fear, as this was intended to address people with bigger problems.

I’m not blind to the Pandora’s Smelly Box, but addressing mental issues as they relate to gun control should be something we all should agree is necessary.

If you’re not a loon, I’m comfortable with you keeping a .38 bedside.

Gene Ralno
Gene Ralno
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Keeping and bearing is reserved to the states.

Jim Macklin
Jim Macklin
4 years ago
Reply to  Gene Ralno

You can repeat this all you want. Saying it does not alter the meaning of the words “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
The Second Amendment could have been written differently…
The security of the people to live in a state of freedom depends on the ability of the people to organize a fully functioning militia therefore the right of the people to keep arms secure from confiscation and to bear those arms in personal self-defense shall not be infringed.
Not as elegant.

Macofjack
Macofjack
4 years ago
Reply to  Gene Ralno

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Amazing I don’t see the word STATES anywhere in this. Try reading before you engage your mouth!

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Macofjack

In a marginaly related subject, all but maybe five or six states have their own articles of gun rights protection in their own state constitutions. I learned this a while ago, but I’m certain it’s still correct. I don’t know how reaching those state guarantees are if they’re in opposition to fed rules, but I can assume they’re still powerful enough.

Vincent Matson
Vincent Matson
4 years ago
Reply to  WayneFromFL

I’m in the same boat. I HAVE A VERY HIGH IQ, BUT ADHD so i CHOOSE to have my mother as a payee. You have to meet 5 other criteria along with being officially DECLARED mentally defective. This includes but not limited to commission by a judge to a mental institution. Shown not to have an understanding of what is understood by a prudent person to be right & wrong.
I still don’t trust this situation, so I have a hearing on 30 January to drop the voluntary payee status. This law comes into full effect 1 January 2018.

jamie
jamie
4 years ago
Reply to  Vincent Matson

not just a judge to commit you read atf expanded version and they added commission or board meaning a group of average people commit you and yes these mental health boards is made from average not even a doctor boards so you might get the person working the cash register at mcdonalds on that board and social security has their own people making up their own board meaning yup social security can call you mental defective and qualify under being a board or commission to screw you so tell me how you can avoid being called a mental defective since… Read more »

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  jamie

Sorry, Jamie, but you’re wrong. The review boards cannot be made up of clerks, etc., because of medical privacy issues. Anyway, there are a number of conditions that must be first met before the SSA can revoke your right to a firearm. While it may be easy to keep guns out of the hands of a raving lunatic who’s been institutionalized for 47 years, it will be a chore for others. We’re suffering anxiety over nothing. The SSA will be undergoing severe legislative and judicial overview regarding this, and it will be something they’ll take seriously. We need to get… Read more »

Gene Ralno
Gene Ralno
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Keeping and bearing is reserved to the states.

jamie
jamie
4 years ago
Reply to  WayneFromFL

now see have multiple posts

thanks ammo land for vanishing stuff so think not even posted at all

Big Bill
Big Bill
4 years ago

“Isn’t that what the NRA is always asking for, that current gun laws be enforced?”

Yes, it is.
But there’s a big difference between enforcing existing laws, and redefining those laws without legislative action, to fit your agenda.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
4 years ago
Reply to  Big Bill

Bill, you are correct when you identify that big difference, and the proper name for that difference is political corruption.

Jim Macklin
Jim Macklin
4 years ago
Reply to  Big Bill

This is new, not existing. The bureaucrats would like to add everybody to the prohibited list. The obama justice department under the direction of loretta lynch has scaled back arrests of violent criminals. obama has pardoned drug traffickers who he says were “non-violent” despite the fact that many used guns and may have committed murders that were part of the large number that are never solved.
They like gun violence because it helps them push their confiscation agenda.

Brian D Parks
Brian D Parks
4 years ago

Fight to rewrite the second amendment so it fits your views, not the other way around. I own many guns, and it upsets me that you are casual as to the owning of a weapon made to kill people. It is not a tool to eat with or build a house with. There should be rules as to who owns guns and how they are sold. Fighting that is childish and wreckless.

jamie
jamie
4 years ago
Reply to  Brian D Parks

when the regulations get written in ways your family member living 50 miles from a bank and no car is called defective just because have a payee then yes people need to fight

and when regulations get written in ways some agenda pushing not a doctor and never even meet you desk jockey can decide who is defective and take away your rights – yes need to fight

when some person can make fake reports to win against you in court for divorce or some other thing and get your rights taken away – yes need to fight

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
4 years ago
Reply to  Brian D Parks

, are you sure that you are not rewriting the Second Amendment to fit your views. Nor were guns invented to kill people. Societies have recognized that people killing other people is wrong since Cain killed Able. Firearms are merely an extension of the person using them. Apparently, you think that guns are for killing people. I do not. I know that that is what artillery is for.

HankB
HankB
4 years ago

If someone is “adjudicated mentally defective” – considered too incompetent to have a gun or ammunition – how can they be considered competent to stand trial?

JR B.
JR B.
4 years ago
Reply to  HankB

Really starting to make more sense now that you mention it, one Ammendment at a time. But it is not a privilege it’s a right we must stand for.

Mark
Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  HankB

True and according to the government they are not citizens of equality since they have a defect. Hence they are sub human citizens and do not have the same rights as a real human. I’ve heard of government arguments like this before . 1930s German, pre civil war , etc.

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Mark, you’re looking at it the wrong way; no one in their right minds would give a gun to someone who a shrink has documented as psychotic, or suicidal, or has anger control issues, or who has difficulty maintaining lucidity or comprehending reality. Would you?

These regulations have nothing to do with race-hate. You should know better.

Gene Ralno
Gene Ralno
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Keeping and bearing is reserved to the states.

Tionico
Tionico
4 years ago
Reply to  Gene Ralno

you keep parroting that… but yonder come de coyote to eat off yer haid…. READ that Second… it clearly declares the RIGHT to keep and bear belongs to THE PEOPLE. Not states, not FedGov, not counties, not police, not military… THE PEOPLE. COmmon ordinary everyday citizens.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
4 years ago
Reply to  HankB

, If an adjudicated mental defective commits a felony the issue of whether they are too mentally defective to stand trial is decided at a pretrial competency hearing, in most jurisdictions. The evidence, in most jurisdictions, must show that the defendant “knew what they were doing” and “knew that it was wrong” So it is theoretically possible for an adjudicated mental defective to by tried.

Tionico
Tionico
4 years ago
Reply to  HankB

adjudicated mentally defective will have a guardian taking care of ALL their affairs, so that person will deal with the legal aspects for hm, But this is not the issue addressed in this article, The LAW, passed by the Congress, speaks of “adjudicated mentally defective”, a clearly defined situation, and rightly so.
These new RULES are, first, not law, and second, illegal. they have no real authority. What BATF and others are doing is making rules that would declare certain ones incompetent…. where the law dictates “adjudicated mentally defeictive”. VERY different thigns, each clearly defined.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
4 years ago

These rules are not acts of Congress. These rules are clearly unconstitutional. It would be cheaper for President Trump, by executive order, to direct the agencies to repeal the offending rules, than litigate up to the S Ct. So just from a governmental efficiency stand point.

Brook
Brook
4 years ago

I don’t believe that this will be as dramatic as the article makes it seem. I am a gun owner, and support many of the safegaurds.

mike
mike
4 years ago

I think this is discrimination against people on SSI,This law should never have passed. I am really upset at the NRA,Where were they. I thought they were for our right to own a firearm, But I guess I am wrong. I can only hope President Trump overturns this law because if you can total the number of people it will take rights away from would be astounding and a number I can;t even imagine

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
4 years ago
Reply to  mike

M, He does not know to capitalize the first word of a sentence, either. Not to mention his thinking that it is his internet.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
4 years ago
Reply to  mike

, Because those things are not laws enacted by Congress, but rather rules promulgated by the various agencies, the NRA had no ability to stop them. The agencies are part of the executive branch and are creating these rules because the executive at that time wanted those rules created. Finally, we all hope that at the, now, President of the United States Donald Trump will order these rules repealed as soon as possible.

Jim Macklin
Jim Macklin
4 years ago

Sports figures and Hollywood actors almost always have managers to handle money.. If a person uses a stock broker or a financial professional to manage their money, does that make them mentally defective?

Legally, ATF, SSA and other agencies are administrative, but to be adjudicated requires a court, a judge and a defense and not just a bureaucrat.

This needs to be a first 100 day action by the new Trump Administration.

Robert Anderson Sr
Robert Anderson Sr
4 years ago
Reply to  Jim Macklin

You are the Dumb POS to beleive Obama didn’t want to TAKE OUR GUNS AWAY !!! These laws need redefine. Yes the Mentally ill need prohibited but this Law went TOO FAR !! The BOLLYWOOD DIRA LICTS SHOULDNT HAVE REAL GUNS ANYWAY !! THEY CAN’T ACT LET ALONE KNOW HOW TO HANDLE A GUN! ALSO Stay out of Politics , REGAN was the Only real man besides JOHN WAYNE from BOLLYWOOD !! OVER.PAID,OVER RATED DROP OUTS ANYWAY !!!

Vanns40
Vanns40
4 years ago

Yikes! Here’s just a suggestion, if there’s someone else at home with you, have them proof read your comments before you hit the “post comment” button. I realize that even after proofing things can slip by but with yours there were several problems.

Macofjack
Macofjack
4 years ago
Reply to  Vanns40

Vanns40 – just another grammar NAZI! You got what he was saying or your dumb ass would not have posted!! Grow UP!!

Gator '76 ~ Wild Bill - Biker6666
Gator '76 ~ Wild Bill - Biker6666
4 years ago

Huh?

BJI
BJI
4 years ago

BOLLYWOOD is what the Hollywood of the country of India is called.

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Jim Macklin

Really, Jim? You’re comparing a person who struggles with competency against a sports figure who hires an accountant? Geez, read the regulation instead of stating a position based on this incomplete (and hard-leaning) article; the SSA will not base their determinations on age or coin-toss or ego. They won’t send a guy out so you can pick a card, any card, and you won’t have to call it in the air, either. Where recipients fall in these regulations will pretty much be based on medical history and court processes, dude. This article is clearly one-sided, and it’s a mistake to… Read more »

Gene Ralno
Gene Ralno
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Keeping and bearing is reserved to the states.

Jim Macklin
Jim Macklin
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

The Social Security office will report directly to the FBI. No court or appeal process is included in the administrative rule. If you’re denied it will take a long process to find out why and then a ton of money to hire lawyers and run an appeal.

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Jim Macklin

WTH, were did you get that “fact” about the SSA reporting to the FBI? OMG, dude, these are two distinct departments with two completely different processes and agenda. The SSA will get background info from the FBI but does not report to them. Hell, we get background checks when we buy guns, so no big deal. Anyone who tells you that the SSA constuctively reports to the FBI is an idiot. You should not listen to them. You should not lend them money, either.

Tionico
Tionico
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

no, he’s comparing a Veteran or an individual receiving Social Security payments using a financial manager to a Hollywood bigwig actor using a financial manager. WHY do the Veteran and Social Security beneficiary lost their right to arms but the Hollywood Hot Shot does not?

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Tionico

Tionico: This isn’t about a vet or an individual choosing to use a financial manager to handle his money versus a Hollywood bigwig, etc. It never was, and you know it. J Maklin knows it, too. You both are being senselessly obtuse over this issue, almost as if you’re intentionally trying to rumor-monger. Pay attention: this set of regulations is aimed at people who receive federal SSA benefits and who have been adjudicated as unable to manage their lives to the point that a third party has to manage it for them. People who declare that this also includes people… Read more »

Glen
Glen
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Sorry but I deal with social security on the issue on a regular basis. there is NO court involved in most of these decisions. There is no due process. All it take is the signature of a doctor and you have a representative payee, no court, no hearing.

Herb
Herb
4 years ago

Good old Congress – democrats in particular and scumbag obama specifically. Time to tell democrats to go sh#t in their hats – again.

Paul Grimsrud
Paul Grimsrud
4 years ago

Isn’t that what the NRA is always asking for, that current gun laws be enforced?

Doyoureadbro
Doyoureadbro
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul Grimsrud

These aren’t current laws. They are new regulations. Did you read the article?

jamie
jamie
4 years ago
Reply to  Doyoureadbro

but regulations get used the same as if they are law

try violating a epa regulation once – how about one with a million dollar a day fine and see if courts tell you not to worry not a law

Tionicoi
Tionicoi
4 years ago
Reply to  jamie

ONLY the Congress can make law. Federal agencies are NOT congress, though many of them behave as if they were. THAT needs to change.. and has for a long time.

When CONGRESS pass a law that is consistent with the Constitution, then it becomes the law of the land. If Congress do not pass it, or it is not consistent with the Constitution, then its not. Simple.. basic, Even a child can understand it. Brother can’t make up and enforce the rules of the household, Dad can, and should.

Harold Reeg
Harold Reeg
4 years ago

Hopefully the new administration will correct the SSA/NCIS bureaucratic userption of the Constitutional rights of our veterans and others.
Thank You !

Greg A
Greg A
4 years ago

GET THIS CRAP OFF THE INTERNET. GET THIS DUMB UNEDUCATED (SOUTHERN WHITE TRASH) BULLSH#/ OFF MY INTERNET. ANY PERSON WHO WRITES ANYTHING ABOUT HOW OBAMA IS BAD FOR THE GUN INDUSTRY SHOULD HANG THEM SELF. BECAUSE THEY ARE TO DUMB TO HELP SOCIETY. YOU SHOULD JUST DIE OLD WHITE MAN (SAFE ASSUMPTION) . YOUR HOLDING THE REST OF US SMART PEOPLE BACK. WE CAN ACTUALLY SEE WHAT’S COMINGOING AND EMBRACE IT.

old n white
old n white
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Move to CA and shut off your internet troll.

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  old n white

Please don’t tell him to move to CA. We have it bad enough.

Alan
Alan
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Bob G, Jim S and other Californians:

The following is attributed to Thomas Jefferson: People usually get the sort of government they didn’t vote against. The problems in California didn’t come to pass overnight, they have been building for some number of years.

Jim S
Jim S
4 years ago
Reply to  old n white

Please Obama lovers and gun control facists please dont move to Californistan.

Charon ~ Gator '76 ~ Wild Bill
Charon ~ Gator '76 ~ Wild Bill
4 years ago
Reply to  Jim S

I think they already did.

Nutty Butter
Nutty Butter
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

English MotherFu****, do you speak it?

Robert Anderson Sr
Robert Anderson Sr
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

You are the Dumb POS to beleive Obama didn’t want to TAKE OUR GUNS AWAY !!! These laws need redefine. Yes the Mentally ill need prohibited but this Law went TOO FAR !!

Tionico
Tionico
4 years ago

this is not LAW, as Congress did not pass it. It is a set of administrative rules that are in direct conflict with the Constitution, which IS the Supreme Law of the Land.

Gene Ralno
Gene Ralno
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Finish school (your talking, them self, to dumb, your holding). Get a job. Try again. Good luck.

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Greg, easy on the caps. Peeps who submit dialogue in all caps are considered a bit unstable. If you’re not careful, the SSA will use this to declare you unfit to own a gun. Anyway, there is a lot of hyperbole surrounding the SSA regulations regarding gun ownership and benefits; if you review an unbiased and non-agenda reading you’ll discover that the regulations are actually moderate and fair. The big issues – and the ones drawing the most ire – involve the regulations addressing competency. As I read them, the regulations fairly address gun ownership by those people adjudicated as… Read more »

Gene Ralno
Gene Ralno
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Keeping and bearing is reserved to the states.

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Gene Ralno

?

Feel free to jump in, but make a point.

If you’re saying the SSA does not have the right to enforce a program regarding firearms to its benefit recipients, then you’re wrong. If your position is that the state is the ultimate authority on who gets a gun, maybe you’re right, unless you’re talking about federal benefits programs.

Was that your point?

Gene Ralno
Gene Ralno
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

My point is each agency has a purpose. The Social Security Administration is charged with administering money accounts for those who pay into the system. It has no responsibility for and is expressly prohibited from regulating or even infringing on the civil right to keep and bear arms. The government has other agencies that oversee and enforce laws connected to firearms licensing, sales, manufacture, importation, exportation, interstate transport and on and on. I hope this clears it up for you.

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Gene Ralno: Your comments about “reserved for the state” were unclear in their context. At the core, you’re correct. I think the SSA is addressing a problem that isn’t theirs to fix. Yes, there’s a problem with unbalanced people having access to guns, but my own opinion it should not be the SSA’s responsibility to fix rather than the court’s or local health or legislative entities. The subject’s own state health agency should have juristiction over that matter as the issues arise, rather than having this federal agency use this as a process involving benefits. The positive in this set… Read more »

Jim Macklin
Jim Macklin
4 years ago
Reply to  Gene Ralno

The States have the power to maintain an organized militia as laid out in Article One, Section Eight of teh Constitution of 1788. In 1789 The Bill of Rights was written and adopted. The right to keep and bear arms was guaranteed to the people.

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Jim Macklin

Hey, Jim: you and Gene make that statement, but I don’t see the point you’re trying to make as it relates to this context. If you’re trying to mimic what Gene said then that’s fine but, once again, it’s not relevent in the issue of federal benefits and regulations regarding competency and guns. Be careful what we wish for; the biggest fear I had was Clinton getting the WH and sitting a liberal on SCOTUS, which would have left guys like me at the mercy of restrictive state legislatures (remember, you said that a state can control and restrict its… Read more »

Tionico
Tionico
4 years ago
Reply to  Gene Ralno

READ that Second Article of Amendment. It says the right OF THE PEOPLE to keep and bear…. not “the states”. Clearly and unambiguously THE PEOPLE.

Don F.
Don F.
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Bob, While I respect your well thought out and articulate argument, I cannot agree with your final conclusion that the outrage against this decision. Clearly you are not considering the harm that could be done to entiire families because of the intentionally vague language used. Someone one SSI disability for an accident, let’s say confined to a wheel chair, may have, for convenience sake, assigned a designated payee to handle their finances, such as a family member with whom he lives. This person is of no danger to themselves or any other, but, because of the ill-chosen wording of this… Read more »

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Don F.

I is not a grammar nazi. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. Your recognition of the Pandora’s box is the same as mine, but some of these guys are acting as if they’re fending off the feds as we speak, and they’re doing it without the facts, which means those who are looking for information will end up getting bad information. This is a process. I don’t love it, but I recognize what the positive safety features are, and I DO appreciate that it’s a program specifically addressing those who are unstable to the point where firearm access can… Read more »

Tionico
Tionico
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Not quite… look into what has been happening particularly in certain states, regarding Veterans. Some elect to have a third party receive and disburse their lawully due payments. Some only need help balacing their bank accounts and credit cards. Since when does not being comfortable running the maths needed to mind one’s finances disqualify one from his right to arms? Some folks either “dont get” or don’t care to mess with maths. The LAW clearly states “adjudicated mentally defective” or “committed to a mental institution”. Into which category does a guy not being sufficiently handy with numbers to mind his… Read more »

John Thompson
John Thompson
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Y don’t u get off face book!
Congress or the President can’t change our Constitution!!! We the people are the only ones who can change our Constitution! It has to be if we vote to change it!!!!

DAN III
DAN III
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Greg,

“….THEY ARE TO DUMB….” Really Einstein ? The correct word is “too”.

Amazing how you libtards want to impress folks with your alleged intelligence but, you have no command of your own native language. 2nd Grade English and you cannot use it properly. Yet you want to call others dumb ? Better look in the mirror before you accuse others of being what you are.

LLinLa
LLinLa
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Heh! Smart people know what a CAPS LOCK key is! Insane people sometimes scream a lot when no one is listening so they can get the attention they so crave.

Rich in MO
Rich in MO
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

One of the funniest yet nearly unintelligible posts I have read in a long time!

Aardvark
Aardvark
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Unbelievable. Just another one of the brilliant, tolerant left. Coexist, celebrate diversity and all of that dude. You know, follow the bumper sticker slogans plastered all over the back of your Prius.

Charon ~ Gator '76 ~ Wild Bill
Charon ~ Gator '76 ~ Wild Bill
4 years ago
Reply to  Aardvark

My Prius gets me to the gun club much more efficiently than your 1 ton dooly. Hmmmm – back to your prepper cave, Aardsnark. The black helicopters are coming for you.

BJI
BJI
4 years ago

Good for you, Charon, but can you haul one ton in your Prius???!!!

Charon ~ Gator '76 ~ Wild Bill
Charon ~ Gator '76 ~ Wild Bill
4 years ago
Reply to  BJI

I think they already did.

JOE CHAMBERLAIN
JOE CHAMBERLAIN
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

to begin with your full of it. the proper word would be “themselves”

Vince
Vince
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Greg…If you were actually smart (as you claim) then there is no way in the world that a “dumb” person could hold you back. What it really sounds like is that you yourself lacks in sufficient education to adequately provide for yourself or you are unwilling to work hard enough to make ends meet. Therefore you want other hard working folks to support you with “free” money. Well free money isn’t free. Somebody worked hard and paid their taxes to make it available to those in real need. If you have a computer or smart phone to blog on then… Read more »

Terry
Terry
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Poor greg, It is because of idiots like you we actual Americans, had to put up with obama (the muslim, communist) for 8 years. He your would be king, made life actually worse for everyone. Lies, war crimes, gun control (tried),Treason and violations of the Constitution of the United States, is all he ever accomplished. Many republicans and most all democrates in office are accessories to his crimes and all should be tried, convicted, and given the maximum sentence provided by law. Mexico and other countries where, he and his partners in crime, have caused the killings of mass numbers… Read more »

rappini
rappini
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Hey Greg A, I think I saw you in the Womans march the other day, with the rest of the pussies.

Alan
Alan
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Greg A:

Whatever it is that you have to say, is it really necessary to “shout”, that being your indiniscriminate capitalization?

sambo
sambo
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Jusr southern enough to say when your finished batching could you give me shine?

Greg A
Greg A
4 years ago

what a biased bunch of uneducated lies and assumptions. FYI…. When your talking about how “the evil muslim president” is taking our guns having gun ads in the article shows what the true purpose of the article is.

Yak
Yak
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Presented ZERO facts about the regulations and how they would benefit America. Typical libtards

Mike Murray
Mike Murray
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

This from someone who doesn’t even know the difference between “your” and “you’re”. Government education on display. Indoctrination, not education.

Tionico
Tionico
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Biased? Do words no longer have meanings? WHY have Obama’s henchmen attempted to change the meanings of words so as to “justify” the disarming of tens of thousands of normal Maericans? Yes, tens of thousands. YOU are the one living under a slimy rock.

Lee
Lee
4 years ago
Reply to  Tionico

I have never trusted the Government when it comes to individual freedom. They all want it their way, not the right way. If they were for the people they would uphold the Constitution but they have no idea what it means.

Mr. Big Gun
Mr. Big Gun
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

Just like all the failures , and there are many , because the past president was a failure in itself, the worst liar ever to be president, he failed to bankrupt America, he failed to convert America into a muslim nation, he failed to hide his fraud, he failed to hide his treason, he failed on all gun laws, he failed as a community organizer, he failed to be king, he failed in Bengazi, he failed in osama bin lyin, he failed in gun running, he failed in hiding the CIA and prostitutes, he failed in everything he touched, he… Read more »

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Mr. Big Gun

Where were you going with this? My assumption is that you don’t like Obama, but you’re being a little National Enquirer over it. I didn’t care for him, either, but I don’t think he was our worst, and I don’t hate him. My biggest issue with him was his foreign policies and being soft on some of our domestic issues. I think Carter was just as bad in some aspects. You make a lot of comments that have no relevency. You should know that peeps who do this are viewed as rabid and imagined as weird little men wearing foil… Read more »

Terry
Terry
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Sir, or Mam, Because of obama, carter can now smile. Carter can now rest easy knowing that he wasn’t the worst president in American history. The gentleman or lady that you responded too, is exactly right, and not all national enquirer over obama. The foil hat cpmment makes one think you are actually a far left operative. The article is about loss of the 2nd amendment for certain portion of citizenry, that along with war crimes is exactly what obama has been after, his whole terms in office. Other than tear America down and make a deeper racial devide. Obama… Read more »

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Terry

Get stuffed. If you look at his run-on rant you’ll get the feeling he’s an unreasonable quack. I was trying to be kind, but he really does make silly comments. Guys who chant War Crimes are being fairly stupid since no reasonable person actually think that; there are a number of things I did not care about in the Obama presidency, and I named them: his foreign policy was pretty bad, maybe not as bad as Carter’s, but the times were different and it’s difficult to compare, and some of his domestic policies – including race relations – were failures.… Read more »

Ol' Vet
Ol' Vet
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Looks like to me, YOU are the one declaring relevency, but not reading what the man wrote. He was correct on everything he composed. Looks like your respect for the worst president in our nation’s history was a pal of yours, or at least you think so. Get a life.

Terry
Terry
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob G

Poor,Bob/greg/troll Oh yes sure you are a modrate repbulican/democrate. You have no idea of the real world, you lefties never do. To have to mention you are (pick a title), is a sure sign you are not. You are right California should undo its draconian gun control law against law abiding citizens as well as other state that carry the same type laws. You are watching way too much television and believing all your lefty news buddies. Maybe one day you can move out of your mothers basement, get a job, and see what it is to actually make a… Read more »

Bob G
Bob G
4 years ago
Reply to  Terry

You’re an ass. You closet yourself in your douche ex military wrappings and consider your perspective as adequate. I served in the Corp during fairly ugly times and did what they expected if me, but I don’t find a need to post it in all my texts to make people think I’m a man. I don’t know you from the next guy, but I bet you were the typical shitbird we always stuck in ship’s platoon to keep them out of the way. I believe you to be stupid. The guy I responded to was on a ridiculous rant and… Read more »

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

A, Based upon what you have written, am I supposed to jump to some implied argument that you think that you are making? And am I further to assume that you think you have made a winning argument? Can I suggest, perhaps that a Dale Carnige course may be beneficial?

Oldmarine
Oldmarine
4 years ago
Reply to  Greg A

>>> Greg A You have some valid points and some invalid points. But your mouth will just get you ignored so when debating someone keep it cool and adapt to the situation. You said you were in the Corps so don’t defeat yourself buy a frontal attack. Remember that you are trying to convince someone to see your point of view so that the majority will be on your side. This is not a lesson but at fact of life. I appreciate your points but as I said (some valid some not) . Get uptight and cohesive (get your SH*t… Read more »