Florida Tax Collectors to Openly Carry While State Forbids the Right to Citizens

By David Codrea

Guns for me but not for thee? At least taxman Greenberg corroborates the protective value of being armed.
David Codrea in his natural habitat.

USA – -(Ammoland.com)- “A Central Florida tax collector says a new policy will allow his employees to openly carry firearms while they work,” The Associated Press reports. “Seminole County Tax Collector Joel Greenberg told the Orlando Sentinel that according to Florida law, he and his employees are considered ‘revenue officers’ and are exempt from the state's ban on the open carrying of firearms while performing their duties.”

The rationale behind the move is to save taxpayers money by eliminating the need to hire private security.

“Tax collector Joel Greenberg says he is a ‘big believer in the Second Amendment,’” letter to the editor writer Gordon Crawford points out in the Orlando Sentinel. “If that is truly the case, he would know that this constitutional amendment was put in place to protect the public from government tyranny, not to arm the government.”

Not that the courts have incentive to provide for that. As noted by the Sun Sentinel in March, “The Florida Supreme Court found the state’s ban on openly carrying handguns constitutional, raising the stakes for open carry laws under consideration in the Legislature this year.”

But per Florida Carry’s latest legislative update for SB 140, “Open Carry and Prohibited Places Reform,” Sponsor- Sen. Greg Steube”:

“This bill has been held by Sen. Steube in favor of placing its provisions individually into separate bills.”

What would Mason do?

“I ask, sir, what is the militia?” founder George Mason asked and then answered. “It is the whole people, except for few public officials.”

That public officials will open carry while the practice has been criminalized for the whole people is exactly opposite of what was intended. It also makes a mockery of what has to be the most ignored mandate in the world: “shall not be infringed.”

And while gun owner rights advocates will properly recognize that bearing arms is an individual right not dependent on active militia deployment, and oppose restrictions on the right as a condition of employment, Greenberg’s policy of assuming the status of “Only Ones” opens his team up to a dilemma created by assumptions of elitism. If they’re not in uniform, how will cops know they’re “authorized”?

What’s to stop a person whose knowledge about guns is limited to being spooked by the media from dialing 911? Or some evil-minded anti-gun troll from doing it for the express purpose of “swatting” what he perceives to be a “mere” armed citizen…?

That’s the problem when you have two sets of “laws” that undermine equal protection. It’s also a pretty good example of how a gun owner control law justified under the banner of “public safety” can make things more dangerous.

About David Codrea:

David Codrea is the winner of multiple journalist awards for investigating / defending the RKBA and a long-time gun owner rights advocate who defiantly challenges the folly of citizen disarmament.

In addition to being a field editor/columnist at GUNS Magazine and associate editor for Oath Keepers, he blogs at “The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance,” and posts on Twitter: @dcodrea and Facebook.

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    Zenaida Hartle
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    Zenaida Hartle

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    Sterling Nuckolls
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    Sterling Nuckolls

    But wanna input that you have a very nice site, I love the design and style it actually stands out.

    Incredulous1
    Guest
    Incredulous1

    “When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
    –Thomas Jefferson
    “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.”
    – Thomas Jefferson
    “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”–Thomas Jefferson
    “The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.”
    –Thomas Jefferson

    Henry
    Guest
    Henry

    http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html
    Bogus Quotes Attributed to the Founders
    I suggest increasing your incredulity level. 🙁

    trumped
    Guest
    trumped

    Isn’t it amazing how the government and various elites always make exceptions for themselves when it comes to things like guns, immigration, race related to schools and neighborhoods, etc.

    Andrew Sinclair
    Guest
    Andrew Sinclair

    Just in case anyone is wondering, the travel ban only applies to in coming travelers.
    So you are free to leave this country whenever you want. In fact I will help you pack, but I will have my walther ppx .40 cal on my hip and my .25 cal on my ankle.

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    Always the pat answer…if you don’t like it…as if what YOU like is the way it should be. Fact is, if we don’t like something there are ways to change it to OUR liking out side of following your pitiful response. I could imagine you at the time of the countries founding sending the same message to those who were sick of King George and his crap.

    Andrew Sinclair
    Guest
    Andrew Sinclair

    You’re absolutely right about being able to change things. I’m not against change I’m against stupidity. And there’s a big difference between property tax and the British Army seizing your entire family’s assets and continuing to arrest and execute entire blood lines. Is it the 16 year old child at the drive-through window’s fault that you pay taxes on food? No, but by the response of most people that are on this page is that they should be held responsible for it and some that the worker should be shot. How about WE as a country figure out solutions to… Read more »

    Paul
    Guest
    Paul

    The IRS at the federal level like this Tax Collector at the State level consider themselves above the law. Just look at Lois Lerner who has never been held to account for her illegal hounding and withholding approval of applications for tax exemption for 501C(3) organizations who just happened to be conservative leading up the election of 2012. She could still be charged and brought into a court of law to stand trial for her criminal activity assuming there’s enough indisputable evidence to prove the case against her.

    Dr. Clifford N. Alford
    Guest
    Dr. Clifford N. Alford

    If one of them came to my house, and I knew that they were tax collectors, I would still report them to 911 when they left just to harass them, and in the hope that some cop would kill one or more of them.

    Andrew Sinclair
    Guest
    Andrew Sinclair

    I don’t know what your doctrine is in, but I do know that you’ve never been jumped, robbed, threatened, held at knifepoint or gun point while working.
    And until you have, you have zero right to make dumb ass statement that condones the murder(yes this situation is premeditated murder) of someone that just wants to be safe while they providing for their families.
    Enjoy your life, because you are definitely going to hell…

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    As were all of the Red Coats of King George who were threatened with “murder” by those colonists wanting to retain their rightful property from THEFT. After all, Mr. Greenturd is just doing his job of legalized thievery which you obviously condone. As for hell…you must be one of those that believe in a book of fables.

    Andrew Sinclair
    Guest
    Andrew Sinclair

    Look, I know that our government is all kinds of jacked up. That doesn’t give one person the right to take the rights of someone else away. Is it the law enforcement officers responsibility to make the laws? No, they are just doing their job. You don’t have to agree with what they are doing to respect the position. The collection officers are not making the tax law, just like everyone else(or at least every self respecting individual that makes a living for them selves rather than mooching off of OUR government) they are just trying to make it home… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Andrew, I have read several of your posts and agree with much of what you say. I am not writing this to agree with others or get into a quibble with you, but… you know that the police (on the local or state level and Special Agents on the federal level) are the armed enforcers that protect the bureaucrats, politicians, behind the scenes string pullers, illegal aliens, moslem invaders, and garden variety criminals that We the People could rid ourselves of in about a month’s time, absent those armed enforcer. The elitists have things turned around so that the police… Read more »

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    You need to read up on the Nuremberg trials. I’m just doing my job is/was no excuse for tyranny.

    Proud vet
    Guest
    Proud vet

    This is no different then the low class words of the 30s shaking down people door-to-door, only they think it’s legal because they hold a position in government, but they forget and refuse to obey the laws of the people. Nothing but thugs who make Al Cappone look like a Cub Scout!

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    Government, as a whole, is nothing but a gang of thieves. Think of it like this: Once upon a time a gang of robbers, thieves and murderers got together to figure out a way to protect themselves. They hatched the idea of government by which they convince the rest of the population to “vote” for robbers, thieves and murderers to protect them from robbers, thieves and murderers. And then those robbers, thieves and murderers lived happily ever after protected by the very people they rob from steal from and murder. Boy was that group a brilliant bunch to say the… Read more »

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    I posted one the Once upon a time part of this post on Steemit and they want proof I’m the guy who posted it so if you don’t mind posting this reply to it, I’ll send them to see that I’m not plagiarizing, but rather utilizing my own posts.

    PHIL TRIMMER
    Guest
    PHIL TRIMMER

    If no one else is allowed to carry, and I see a person in street clothes coming towards me, I am going to drop them like a bad habit. I am a retired law enforcement officer from PA. and have made all requirements to carry a firearm in all 50 states. BEWARE. You never know who you are walking near, or how you portray yourself.

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    Great idea. Then after all your training in “law enforcement” you’ll end up in a cage for murder. Just because someone is armed doesn’t give YOU or anyone else the right to “drop them like a bad habit”. ESPECIALLY if they are carrying in the open and not pointing it at you. Comments like this make me wonder about the mentality of “law enforcement” in general. Unless you’re a double o special murder incorporated agent, which unfortunately for all of us in the US seems to be the case with “law enforcement”.

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    Oh, and one other thing…it’s so great to know that you are of the special privilege vaunted class that you have “made all the requirements to carry a firearm in all 50 states”, while the rest of us, especially those of us who are foolish enough to have the audacity to think that SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED printed on that old useless document, The US Constitution”. means what it says for ALL 50 STATES. How do people like you take an oath to support and defend the US Constitution and then at the same time are willing to totally violate… Read more »

    mark
    Guest
    mark

    The aversge cop has an IQ of 70 can’t have a cop that thinks critically they might figure out law enforcements isi just state sponsored terrorisim.

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    I’m beginning to believe from what I’ve been reading and seeing that you may be correct on the IQ number. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt just figuring that they had been so well brain dirtied (not brain washed, they NEED that!) and were just going along with the program of “protecting and serving” those incorporated for profit entities that they work for.

    TomR
    Guest
    TomR

    I too am former Law Enforcement, both Federal and County. And I have to wonder what idiot let you wear a badge?

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Tom R, I presume that you are replying to the Phil Trimmer post.

    freewill
    Guest
    freewill

    this should be called the armed robbery service, and just who does he think he’ll be defending him self against?..people that dont want their money stolen i would assume

    Delandian
    Guest
    Delandian

    I am a FL resident, CCW holder, and live in a county neighboring Seminole. If the tax collector there thinks his agents should be openly armed then they should be formally trained in the legal use of their weapon just as I was required to be, and they better be wearing badges which clearly show they have a legal right to openly carry. If I am denied that right as a free man and citizen of the state of Florida, then they must be as well. What’s next, armed health inspectors?

    Tonto 40
    Guest
    Tonto 40

    I totally agree with the above statement. The employees must be trained completely for at least 4 weeks in the handling of as weapon and must qualify, then wear a uniform to denote that they are State Police TYPES

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    Free man and citizen are contradictions. Look up what a citizen is. For all intents, a citizen is a slave.

    mark
    Guest
    mark

    Sen flores of miami stopped open carry she violated 18 usc ss 241 so did the Florida state supreme court sen.flores and the supreme are guitly of a felony violating ones constitutional rights is a capital offense with a possible death sentence push usc 18 ss 241 they all go down.

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    No one has “Constitutional rights”. Our rights come from birth. The Constitution was supposed to be a way to restrain the GOVERNMENT from violating our NATURAL rights. Thomas Jefferson called them UNALIENABLE rights which mean you can’t take them away, sell them, transfer them or in any way at all loose them. Those that PRETEND that they can do so do so at their own peril. Because the ultimate enforcer of our rights are WE THE PEOPLE, who can at any time shoot Red Coats for violating them. According to your statement, you have a few legitimate targets living within… Read more »

    Pistol Pete
    Guest
    Pistol Pete

    Those of us who love freedoms song must stand and fight no matter what the cost or all is lost.

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    And as for an answer to the question…What would Mason do? I’d venture to say that he would grab his musket, some ball and powder, maybe a garotte and flintlock pistol, go to the local tavern where the enforcers hung out, strangle as many as possible, shoot as many as possible, and hope to hell he didn’t get seen by any of the Tory informants that would have supported the red coated police of the day. It is a sad state of affairs that the USA has become communist right under the noses of our grandfathers so that to this… Read more »

    Tionico
    Guest
    Tionico

    Had to get and read a copy of this for a college course I was taking. It was readily available at no cost online, a downloadable PDF. Put “thomas paine common sense” in the search window. Also, cheap paperback used copies were readily available on Amazon.The shipping rip cost more than the book.

    Charles Jackson
    Guest
    Charles Jackson

    Mark Are, wish there was a like button on these comments, I like a lot of your comments.
    This is why I became an oathKeeper after 15 years in the Marine Corps, I believe in the Constitution, not the government.

    hummus abedin
    Guest
    hummus abedin

    Yawn………
    As usual, the day is polluted
    by beta cucks cravenly whining
    about what a treasonous sh*tbag
    dictator won’t allow the dirt people
    peasantry to do, instead of being
    free people and doing.
    You stupid mutts.

    Ned
    Guest
    Ned

    And yet a keyboard warrior gamma is here reading and commenting.You likely don’t understand that your comments prove you aren’t alpha.

    Bob M.
    Guest
    Bob M.

    Well from the commentary here, seems like I may not have much to add. Seems like people seem to be catching on to the notion that a State for which the law does not apply signifies either an elitist State that is above the law or unjust laws, or both. Either way, it’s high time to remove BOTH from the picture!

    hummus abedin
    Guest
    hummus abedin

    The rule of law and equality
    of justice is long dead in America.
    And it had been, long before
    bathhouse barry squatted in the Oval Office.
    You stupid mutt

    littlemike
    Guest
    littlemike

    It’s very simple. Florida needs to pass open carry like Texas did. Most permit holders will still continue to concealed carry, but at least they will have a choice.

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    How about Florida pass the 2nd amendment? Where it says SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED would be a good understanding for the 1st grade dropouts in the legislature. I would venture to say that if you have to get a PERMIT for anything, that a right doesn’t exist. It is a PRIVILEGE granted by the master in control of issuance. Even the title of this article is a bit off base. You can’t forbid a RIGHT. Rights are UNALIENABLE which means NOTHING can take them away outside of the opposite of birth where they were obtained in the first place. We… Read more »

    Andrew Sinclair
    Guest
    Andrew Sinclair

    I’m 100% in agreement that every physically and mentally capable person should be allowed to carry both concealed and open carry.
    The reason Texas issues permits, is to protect the community from those who believe that their rights are more important than others. By keeping ex-cons, the mentally unstable and those uneducated in proper gun safety from freely carrying firearms on their hips.
    The permit also protects the firearm carrier, by issuing a test on the laws and the interpretation of said laws as it pertains to open carry.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Andy, After Heller and McDonald, I don’t think that the various states have the authority to require permits. The states might have the authority to deny convicted felons firearms. All that other stuff is pretty well moot.

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    CONVICTED in a CAGE felons. Once released they should have their UNALIENABLE rights back. if they cross the line again, and they were REAL felons and not made up ones ( the founding fathers considered a HEINOUS crime to be a felony, not smoking an herb) we can deal with that too.

    MamaLiberty
    Guest
    MamaLiberty

    Andy, just what makes you think that actual criminals – you know, those who want to harm other people – will in any way be stopped by any of your “permits” or the requirements to obtain them? Do criminals and the deranged actually care about these things, these “laws,” or not. All the run-around “laws” and restrictions do is make it harder for ordinary people to prepare to defend themselves. Sure, the “laws” can be used to convict the attacker/ murderer AFTER the fact, but that’s not much consolation to the helpless victim. It is simply not possible to prevent… Read more »

    Andrew Sinclair
    Guest
    Andrew Sinclair

    Did you actually read what I wrote? I never said anything about it keeping criminals from illegally carrying a concealed weapon. I said the law protects the community by not allowing them to freely carry concealed weapons. It is everyone’s responsibility to defend themselves or at the very least be vigilant enough to recognize potential danger and avoid said situations. They are not MY laws, they are The State of Texas’ Laws and Regulations. I clearly stated in my original post that these regulations were put in place to allow the physically and mentally competent persons with the proper weapons… Read more »

    Hugo
    Guest
    Hugo

    Greenberg. Another f-ing *** stealing money from the citizenry.

    Colonialgirl
    Guest
    Colonialgirl

    He’s not even bright enough to know how to shave.

    joe martin
    Guest
    joe martin

    Back in Arkansas, back in the day, my family knew how to deal with armed “Revenuers”. Just like back then, folks were trying to make a living and just like back then, the government either didn’t want them doing so, or wanted their unfair portion of what the people made.

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    I don’t need to go back to Arkansas. I’m already there. And people EVERYWHERE are starting to see through these scam artists con games that they have been utilizing on the populations of the world. Not just in the US but EVERYWHERE. The psychos that think they are in control are going to find out the hard way soon. I just hope I live to see the day where my children live in a free world devoid of the control freaks that have nothing but their own interests at heart. I’m sure that Mr. Greenburg drives a nice new fancy… Read more »

    MamaLiberty
    Guest
    MamaLiberty

    Joe, just what would you consider a “fair portion” of your hard earned money for the government to steal?

    freewill
    Guest
    freewill

    if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow citizens. Hamilton, federalist papers # 29

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    As George Orwell stated in “Animal Farm” all of the animals are equal, it’s just that some are more equal then others. The reason Greenturd wants to carry is because he and his cohorts in CRIME are dealing directly with the 1st and 10th plank of the Communist manifesto. The first plank states this: Abolition of property in land and the application of all rents of land to public purposes. , oh I know…we aren’t really paying “rent” are we? OR ARE WE? Don’t pay your RENT/”taxes” and see how fast you’re are forced out of “your” dwelling at gun… Read more »

    Barson Maith
    Guest
    Barson Maith

    Didn’t you mean: talmud/zio shitbird? That’s a Greenburg. In any event, come on the property — shoot him. The revolution has already begun.

    James Bailey
    Guest
    James Bailey

    Tell me something you lackluster discourteous, lout, can you possibly ask a question without being a knuckle-dragging twit?

    Respect others and you will get respect!

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Barson Maith, No, I don’t think that it has. We have a non-politician administration. I want to see how it works out. I think that the revolution will be a political one.
    Let the leftist/socialist/progressives commence armed rebellion. If you want some bureaucrat shot, then you do it.

    Andrew Sinclair
    Guest
    Andrew Sinclair

    You’re right, no taxes of any kind for everyone. While you chase that rainbow striped unicorn, think about what you are saying.
    With out taxes our government crumbles, which sounds great right?
    NO, look at every country or empire of all time including the present that has had their government crumble. Poverty, anarchy and violence are the only things they all have in common. Oh yeah, and they are either no longer a country or will very shortly no longer be a country

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @AS, But the various governments have gone too far with their taxing authority. For example: Oblabla used the IRS as a weapon agains conservatives. Another example: Taxing authorities don’e even talk about using tax payer dollars wisely, anymore. Nor do they talk about fair taxes anymore. They do talk about wealth redistribution. Tax dollars are no longer used for legitimate purposes. Taxes are now used to regulate and suppress the population.

    freewill
    Guest
    freewill

    @ Andrew..Governments Constitutional requirement is to mint the money through the US Mint, if Government makes the money, they wont have to tax us, the privately owned federal reserve prints the money down at the printing office and loans it out to government..

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    On the national level, why would they need taxes? “The Federal Government, with the cooperation of the Federal Reserve, has the inherent power to create money–almost any amount of it.” ~ The National Debt, Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, p. 8 ALMOST? Why only ALMOST? What keeps them from printing ALL they want? You? Me? Your dog? A full moon? On the state level, yes they need taxes HOWEVER, stealing via the 1st plank of the Communist Manifesto which you most likely never read or are a staunch adherent to, isn’t the way to get your “services” paid for. That… Read more »

    Andrew Sinclair
    Guest
    Andrew Sinclair

    Thank you for your respectful responses.
    the government can and has been printing money nonstop, but who benifits?
    Only the government benefits, every bill that they print drops the value of the dollar in your pocket. What’s the point in having a million dollars if it doesn’t get you as far as a hundred dollars a couple decades ago.
    Printing new money and continuing to borrow Chinese funding can not be the country’s solution.
    We have to figure out a better way

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @AS, Perhaps exchanging the paper “fiat money” for a stock pile of whatever you will need when the time comes that people will not accept paper money (or credit cards, or checks). There could also come a time when people will not accept silver or gold, neither of which can be eaten. But a can of beans or a couple of shotgun shells could buy you a pickup truck.

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    I stock up on gold, silver, and copper clad lead! LOL!

    Darren
    Guest
    Darren

    You’re unknowingly making an argument for a stateless society. Govts often crumble. If not they often become totalitarian. It’s not the lack of taxes that is the problem. The problem is that govts are inherently unstable. For this reason they always try to expand their power at the expense of our liberties. No CONstitution has ever worked as advertised. Thinking the you can make govt work is chasing “that rainbow striped unicorn”. If you don’t agree, fine. Offer a viable alternative. I’m all for institutions, law, & security. What you don’t see is that these have & can again be… Read more »

    Pistol Packin Preacher
    Guest
    Pistol Packin Preacher

    Great article Mr. Codrea. Your quote by George Mason our founder pretty well states the unopposable in any reasonable persons mind whether lawyer, lawmaker, judge, politician or citizen and that is the CRUX of the matter of who supposed to have the right to carry, period. Thank you for gathering the FACTS of our founders and putting it in perfect context concerning the elitist government officers or politicians and the common citizen. This is supposed to be part of what makes America great. We the people are supposed to have authority from the bottom up or really the top down… Read more »

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    States should only have use taxes. If a person utilizes a “service” they should pay for it themselves. People who don’t have children or that put their children in schools other then government owned ones shouldn’t have to be forced to support them. It is, plain and simple, the COMMUNIST manifesto in force and effect in the USA. When are we going to wake up to the tyranny that has been placed over us slowly but surely since the “civil” war? Darren, below, states the obvious to many of us…taxation is nothing but armed robbery.

    Chiefton
    Guest
    Chiefton

    We continue to have a tremendous need for the SCOTUS to rule that ALL gun laws directed at the ownership, possession and carrying of arms be declared unconstitutional once and for all. Otherwise this trend continues to degrade the Bill of Rights as an assault on any singular right provided for in the Constitution means ANY of those other rights can eventually be made illegal by a rogue court or government. Is that not what our forefathers were fighting for? It is exactly what is discussed in the Preamble of the Constitution.

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    We the people really don’t need that. We just need to be willing to do what it takes, and if that means shooting those who would enforce unlawful, unconstitutional, COMMUNIST “rules” aka “laws” on the citizenry, so be it. The Nuremberg trials made it clear that following orders to commit atrocities is no defense. We should devolve back to the day of PEACE OFFICERS who understood that their job was to the people to keep the peace and do away with “LAW ENFORCEMENT” officers who’s job is nothing more then to fill the cages with non violent “criminals” at the… Read more »

    Bill
    Guest
    Bill

    This is such BS.

    Darren
    Guest
    Darren

    Thank you for your opinion. Want to explain why you think it’s BS?

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Bill, And what is the “This…” that is such BS?

    Darren
    Guest
    Darren

    This also shows how taxation is nothing but armed robbery. Now that they openly carry maybe even the staunchest statists will figure it out.

    hippybiker
    Guest
    hippybiker

    Well said, sir.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Darren, Yes it is robbery supported by two rationales: First, if the American people can not be harnessed, then the various governments, politicians, bureaucrats, and judges in the United States can not be big budget “players”; and second, wealth redistribution. The various levels of government do not even make a pretense of fair taxation anymore. Control the working population by taking away their money, and control the welfare rats and hard core unemployable by buying them off.