Forgotten Memo Shows Gun-grabbing Built into FBI’s DNA

Hoover (R) and assistant/companion Clyde Tolson (Los Angeles Daily News – PD)

U.S.A. – -(Ammoland.com)- “Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store” is an old meme gun owners use to express the more serious concern that Constitutional authority to infringe on the right to keep and bear arms is non-existent. “Boot the BATFE!” was a campaign the late Aaron Zelman of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership started to argue that point, and to call for the elimination of the agency tasked with taking point on most of those infringements.

Recognizing that waste, abuse, corruption and fraud are so deeply ingrained in the Bureau’s management that rooting them out is an effective impossibility,  we’ve seen legislative “solutions” offered, the last being Rep. James F. Sensenbrenner’s proposed “ATF Elimination Act:”

“This bill abolishes the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). It transfers the ATF's authorities, functions, personnel, and assets to the Department of Justice, the Drug Enforcement Administration, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.”

I argued against that in “The Devil You Know” for one of my GUNS Magazine “Rights Watch” columns. As offensive to liberty as ATF has been, the DOJ, FBI and DEA have been as bad and worse. Besides, transferring functions does nothing about the usurpation of undelegated authority that makes Zelman’s solution – elimination – the only acceptable one. Admittedly, it’s one that none of our “staunch supporters of the Second Amendment” in Congress have the guts to even broach, let alone make the case and fight for.

As for the FBI, the Bureau has been wary of armed citizens from its inception, and the attitude of its first director set a tone that remains an influence to this day.

“FBI director J. Edgar Hoover received the first .357 Mag. on April 8, 1935,” a 2010 “American Rifleman” article on the history of the caliber informed National Rifle Association members. “Sales of the new .357 Mag. started very strong and continuously increased. “

That the Hoover .357 is a Holy Grail of sorts, something researchers and collectors of historical firearms have been diligently searching for, is hardly surprising. Perhaps more of a revelation for those of us who aren't collectors, but are more interested in propriety of official actions, is that Hoover gave a Super .38 handgun taken from the Dillinger gang to a “New York movie lawyer.” Questions such as who “owned” confiscated evidence and if the Sullivan Act was complied with will probably be as difficult to find answers for as the director’s elusive #1, but they do lead to a question we can answer: How did he feel about American citizens possessing subsequent production models of the handgun presented to him?

Hoover didn't like the idea one bit, and in typical elitist “Only Ones” fashion did what he could to encourage banning “highly-powered firearms.” That’s the gist of a letter from Hoover to Attorney General Homer Stille Cummings dated March 19, 1936.

An industry insider provided me with a copy of the letter that had watermarks forbidding publication of the document. A call and correspondence with the University of Virginia's Albert and Shirley Small Special Collections Library resulted in a clean scan and acknowledgement that posting it is consistent with publication guidelines. For research purposes, per the library reference coordinator, it is housed in the Papers of Homer S. Cummings, MSS 9973, Box 103, Folder “Attorney General Personal File – Firearms and National Firearms Act 1935 May-1938 September.”

Expressing concerns over “the velocity and penetrative ability of firearms and their ammunition,” Hoover noted “a competitive race” to develop the highest velocity cartridge possible.” These advances, he warned, would render “hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment now in use by law enforcement agencies useless and obsolete.

“[T]hese developments will eventually be of much greater assistance to the criminal element than to the law enforcement agencies or to the law abiding citizens,” Hoover predicted.

“It is not believed that members of the various shooting clubs and organizations would concern themselves over a curtailment of highly-powered firearms,” Hoover opined, probably not altogether incorrectly considering the indifference of many who to this day still place sporting interests over rights. “Additional penetration is of no value to target shooting, and it is logical to assume that organizations promoting this sport would be in hearty accord with legislation curtailing high velocity bullets in an attempt to insure their members the continued use of target pistols.”

Noting the “menacing developments of these guns,” Hoover recommended “permanently control[ling] … rapid advances” and offered technical assistance from the Bureau to come up with limitations on “breech pressure and velocity.

“May I respectfully suggest that you consider referring these facts to the appropriate House Committee for such legislative action as may be deemed advisable,” he concluded.

So the Second Amendment is about target shooting? And here all this time we’ve been told it’s about deer hunting.

Arrogant, presumptuous and powerful FBI leadership did not acknowledge “shall not be infringed” then and they don’t acknowledge it now. The more things change the more they stay the same.


About David Codrea:David Codrea

David Codrea is the winner of multiple journalist awards for investigating / defending the RKBA and a long-time gun owner rights advocate who defiantly challenges the folly of citizen disarmament.

In addition to being a field editor/columnist at GUNS Magazine and a contributor to Firearms News, he blogs at “The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance,” and posts on Twitter: @dcodrea and Facebook.

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    Donald L. ClineVanns40CarloTionicoWild Bill Recent comment authors
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    Vanns40
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    Vanns40

    Don Cline: Your anecdotal story regarding a police officer being shot while approaching a vehicle is irrelevant to police officers disarming law abiding citizens. Let’s suppose you’re an off duty officer and get stopped for speeding, should the officer who stops you disarm you also? Why not, because, you belong to a special club that carries a badge? There are three police officers arrested, on average, every single day of the year, for crimes. Using your logic, for citizens, why NOT disarm off duty police officers stopped for traffic offenses on the chance they may be doing something else? As… Read more »

    Carlo
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    Carlo

    Vann, he’s a little special anyway. Thanks for your on target comment!

    Vanns40
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    Vanns40

    Carlo: that site is listed as up for sale!

    Carlo
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    Carlo

    I see that. Thanks.

    Donald L. Cline
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    Donald L. Cline

    I’m pretty sure the officer in my anecdote who was shot does not consider it irrelevant. And you seem to have adopted the position that I support the disarming of citizens by officers. I don’t, particularly; however, he is armed too: If he sees me reaching for my wallet, located just below my holster, he is perfectly justified in putting a bullet in me. I believe my actions in advising him I am armed and allowing him to govern my actions is the prudent thing to do, don’t you? Or do you think my right to keep and bear arms… Read more »

    Vanns40
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    Vanns40

    Don: This has become a tome. That said your last response is exactly the reason we have an “only ones” attitude by some police today. I’ll address just two parts and then I’m finished. I’ve been pulled over a couple of times. I have my wallet out before the officer ever gets out of his car and unless it a “must inform” State I never inform the officer that I’m armed, it’s not relevant to the issue at hand which is a traffic stop. He may see it pop up on his screen when and if he runs my license… Read more »

    Donald L. Cline
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    Donald L. Cline

    “Don: This has become a tome.” I’m only responding to people, like you, who don’t think police officers deserve any respect. And I don’t know about any “only ones” attitude by police today — we don’t have that problem here. “Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2018/11/forgotten-memo-shows-gun-grabbing-built-into-fbis-dna/#ixzz5Z6r3J9dM Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook “I have my wallet out before the officer ever gets out of his car and unless it a “must inform” State I never inform the officer that I’m armed,” I’d rather not have the officer see me trying to dig something out of… Read more »

    Patriot
    Guest
    Patriot

    FBI = KGB!

    Green Mtn. Boy
    Guest
    Green Mtn. Boy

    @ charles gore
    “George Washington did not even consider the need for an ATF ”

    Correct,as he inline with the other founders put in place the Bill Of Rights and namely in the case of arms,which expressly prohibits the government from any Infringement.
    Any of the alphabet agencies are extra Constitutional and thus not within the Constitution,next Tyrant.

    Donald L. Cline
    Guest
    Donald L. Cline

    Not entirely correct, except as it pertains to firearms. The “Elastic Clause,” Article I, Section 8, Clause 18, authorizes Congress “To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.” In my opinion the “Elastic” has been stretched beyond the breaking point in many cases, but there it is: You can make of it what you will, because government certainly has.

    Green Mtn. Boy
    Guest
    Green Mtn. Boy

    IIRC,the Bill of Rights was to limit/place limits on the government,Not We The People.

    Carlo
    Guest
    Carlo

    Don are you the Rabble Rouser from FreedomFIghter.net?

    Donald L. Cline
    Guest
    Donald L. Cline

    “Don are you the Rabble Rouser from FreedomFIghter.net?” The simplest and least informative answer is “no.” That site is for sale, and mine is not for sale. That site is someone trying to scam on the reputation of my site. If you are interested, have a look at http://www.frdmftr.net. It is amusing that you ask if I am the ‘Rabble Rouser,’ because I don’t think my site uses the term ‘Rabble Rouser’ — but I do use it on my business card. 🙂

    Joe R.
    Guest
    Joe R.

    The Constitution is what we use to codify what we demand of/by/for/and from each other under The Declaration of Independence which cannot be amended and a new one can only be written at great peril.
    The 2nd Paragraph of the Declaration of Independence ensures that the 2nd Amendment demands civilian PARITY of arms with our government. And it’s not our fault what that parity requires.

    SH68137
    Guest
    SH68137

    My Rights trump law enforcements vests or shields.
    Aren’t we all equal under law?
    I wonder if George Washington’s ATF would approve the Desert Eagle 50 AE?
    When are we getting the freedom of religion or freedom of thought agency?

    charles gore
    Guest
    charles gore

    George Washington did not even consider the need for an ATF and certainly a Desert Eagle as you can’t equate a weapon of the year of 2000 to a flintlock in 1776.
    The 2nd ammendement does not site or classify weapons of 2018.

    Carlo
    Guest
    Carlo

    If Washington was here he would say, “Look you stupid ass morons, We meant the weapons of the day and today they are different than then. By that premise those not in the military should have been using knives. My gosh what would have happened if someone invented a semi-auto muzzle loader? Would he had made that illegal? Washington would have allowed our citizenry to carry any weapon the military carries now. Guns in and of themselves cannot nor ever will be illegal. They are made legally it is the possession of those that are prohibited from owning them are… Read more »

    Tionico
    Guest
    Tionico

    if someone invented a semi-auto muzzle loader? There WAS one in the time of our fight to kick Georgie Boy Three off North American soil. Can’t recall the name of it, but it did exist. Quite dear, slow in production, so there were few of them. Imagine if funds were available, someone could have set up a factory and cranked them out. It was a long gun, not a muzzle loader as I understand it, but the ball went into a sort of “cartridge box” and fed them into the chamber one by one as the previous round was fired.… Read more »

    Donald L. Cline
    Guest
    Donald L. Cline

    “Let’s stop waiting until people actually commit a crime before we are all like chicken little wanting to ban something.” I have a better idea, one consistent with the liberties under the rule of law our nation was founded to preserve and protect: Let’s prosecute people for what they do, not for what they think. And let’s remember, the right to keep and bear arms includes all the arms carried by the typical well-equipped infantryman, including hand grenades but not including poison gas. (Bouvier’s Law Dictionary, 1914.).

    Carlo
    Guest
    Carlo

    Don, apparently you are not that swift to pick up the ball busting. They FBI tends to treat local law enforcement like a pesky gnat and looks down on them. They think they are above everyone else. It was a joke and if you couldn;t see that you are dumber than a shovel.

    Donald L. Cline
    Guest
    Donald L. Cline

    Carlo, that reply makes no sense at all in the context of what you said above or previously.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @cg, The founding fathers were not required to write any part of the Constitution in an over simplified way that some later individual would approve of. It is up to later generations to learn and understand the founders.

    Tionico
    Guest
    Tionico

    Power corrupts… the more power, the more corruption. The Constitution also prohibits expressly anything resembling royalty, class structure, caste, etc. If I cannot have a .357 Mag, neither can J Edgar have one. Simple. Interesing, as well, something I never thought about much until the ascension of the recent kinyun, that there is ONE Fed agency that was created/modified to control/regulate three classes of goods; Not one of those types of goods, nor the regulation/control of any of them, is mentioned within our Constitution in relation to FedGov, except one of them IS certainly mentioned, and FedGov (as well as… Read more »

    Frank Clarke
    Guest
    Frank Clarke

    The alleged authority to regulate firearms arises from the Interstate Commerce clause, but it is well to remember a fundamental principle of jurisprudence: “later law controls earlier law”. The I/C clause appears in Article I section 8. If that wording ever granted Congress power to legislate on the topic of firearms, it was revoked by the (later) Second Amendment.

    Donald L. Cline
    Guest
    Donald L. Cline

    The BATF was not established to “regulate” Alcohol, Tobacco, or Firearms.” It was established to collect taxes on Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. With regard to Firearms, of course, taxation is prohibited as an infringement of the right. And btw: The federal government has no Constitutionally-delegated authority to even license firearm dealers.

    Carlo
    Guest
    Carlo

    One midnight I pulled over an SUV. There were two men and two women in the vehicle. A male was driving and when I went up to the window he said with ID in hand, We were out with our wives tonight. I couldn’t resist it, I said license and registration please. I got the dirtiest look, naturally, and he started getting out his license. But have respect for the badge, even though they may not, I said yeah, I’m just busting your balls, have a good night.

    ToughGuy
    Guest
    ToughGuy

    Have respect for my rights, and I will respect your badge. If you do not – what separates your badge from the S.S. ?? Respect is earned – you first.

    Roy D.
    Guest
    Roy D.

    Exactly! Respect is earned. Whether it is an individual or an institution, respect is earned. The trouble is that those who are generally promoted to top positions are those who are somebody’s lackey. My problem was that I swore an oath to the Constitution, not an individual or a corrupt institution. Thankfully my parents, both children of Nebraska ranchers and my father a WW2 Pacific Naval veteran and twenty year Air Force veteran, instilled a strong sense of right and wrong in me. It was sometimes hard; but, after 25 years I had the respect of all, even those who… Read more »

    Carlo
    Guest
    Carlo

    I hope you weren’t telling me to respect the badge. I never wrote another brother officer, correction officer or a member of the military. If you were referring to me not respecting the badge then you can kiss my ass.

    Donald L. Cline
    Guest
    Donald L. Cline

    I’m not sure what you are saying, Carlo. In your first message above, what was the point? What was wrong with the guy handing you his ID and saying “We were out with our wives tonight.”? And what does that have to do with him giving you a dirty look for asking for his license and registration? And then you take umbrage with someone you think is telling YOU to respect the badge, and you reveal a total disrespect for the badge by saying, essentially, that you gave your fellow officers a pass when they broke the law. That is… Read more »

    Carlo
    Guest
    Carlo

    Just like doctors give breaks to others in the medical profession. Is that corrupt? I gave a professional courtesy. I don’t know where your head is at but I was neither corrupt or disrespected anyone’s badge. Guess you don’t get cop humor but then again I bet I could hear a sucking sound when you finally pull your head out of your ass! IF I go by your statement then all cops are corrupt, right? What a douche!

    Donald L. Cline
    Guest
    Donald L. Cline

    Yes, Carlo; an officer pulling over a vehicle for breaking a traffic law and then giving him a pass for simply being a fellow officer, is corrupt. Would you do the same for a burglary suspect or rape suspect who turned out to be carrying a badge? Your answer reminds me of the young woman who was asked by her formal dinner date if she would sleep with a man for a million pounds Sterling. She said, coquettishly, “Maybe.” Then she was asked if she would sleep with a man for five pounds. Angrily she replied, “Of course not! What… Read more »

    Carlo
    Guest
    Carlo

    Don, What you have just said then all cops are corrupt because they all let brother officers slide. Now with that in mind if a give Don Cline a break and tell him to slow down am I breaking the law? Or a black does that make me racist? What you do not know is that officers have discretion to arrest or not arrest. It is totally their call, not yours, not my bosses surely not you or some law book.The next time you chose to speak about cops giving breaks to other cops just remember they have that right… Read more »

    Donald L. Cline
    Guest
    Donald L. Cline

    No, not all cops are corrupt because not all cops allow fellow officers to “slide.” If they don’t give them a citation, they advise their internal affairs or their sergeant or their watch commander. If that seems too much like “tattling,” they issue a warning that goes on the record. I was stopped once for doing 80-mph on a divided highway by an Arizona Dept. of Public Safety Trooper, and he said “do you know why I stopped you?” And I said, “Probably because I was doing 80-mph.” He blinked, startled, and asked for my license and registration. I replied,… Read more »

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    Don Cline: I’m not going to get into the whole issue of whether you let fellow officers slide on minor traffic stuff. HOWEVER, I sure am going to take you to task for your apparent attitude of “sure, it’s just fine if I’m disarmed on a traffic stop”. NO, it’s not just fine and I would have said so right then and there. It’s a dangerous move for the officer and the citizen. It’s unnecessary handling of a firearm, first and foremost. Second, that officer stopped you for speeding nothing more. He has absolutely no reason or RAS to disarm… Read more »

    Carlo
    Guest
    Carlo

    Don, Cops do have discretion on traffic stops. To equate a violation and a felony burglary in the same sentence is insane. Warning tickets do not go on your record and are the same as a warning. I take it from your statements you are not a cop and you have no idea what they can or cannot do. Internal affairs would laugh a cop out of their offices if an officer came in and said Officer Don let three people go today. He is corrupt. Don, know the law before you speak. IF you go by your standard of… Read more »

    Tionico
    Guest
    Tionico

    Donald L Cline Your value set is more than a bit skewed. WHY are all those “swarms of officers’ out and about anyway?WHAT is theirfunction in society? Ifyou answer ‘enforce the law’ ‘ you would be wrong. God established the civil magisgrate to “bear the sword against those who do harm”. There is absolutely NO precedent for today’s “law enforcement officers”. They are a holdover from the days of the tyrannical and selfish king who “did not appreciate” his peasants taking “his” deer on “his’ land. I will grant that if the harts were cattle he had purchased and managed… Read more »

    Donald L. Cline
    Guest
    Donald L. Cline

    Can’t find reply buttons for all these posts, so my responses are likely to be out of order. “HOWEVER, I sure am going to take you to task for your apparent attitude of “sure, it’s just fine if I’m disarmed on a traffic stop”. NO, it’s not just fine and I would have said so right then and there.” Fine. You go ahead and do that. What do you think that would have accomplished other than making the officer worry about his safety? “It’s a dangerous move for the officer and the citizen.” Had his handling of the firearm been… Read more »

    Donald L. Cline
    Guest
    Donald L. Cline

    “Don, Cops do have discretion on traffic stops.” Sure, they do. But no more discretion for fellow officers than for anyone else. You may give civilian citizens a break, but you indicated you ALWAYS give fellow officers a break. That’s how department corruption starts. “To equate a violation and a felony burglary in the same sentence is insane.” Not really. That’s where corruption starts. First it is “professional courtesy” to your fellow officers who do five, ten, fifteen over the speed limit. Twenty? Thirty? Then it is professional courtesy when the officer you pull over smells of alcohol, or pot… Read more »

    Donald L. Cline
    Guest
    Donald L. Cline

    “Your value set is more than a bit skewed. WHY are all those “swarms of officers’ out and about anyway?WHAT is theirfunction in society?” Their actual function is to protect the rights of the people. Just as an example, if that were not their primary function, there would be no point in them showing up at the scene of a collision, arranging medical transport for the victims if necessary, investigating the circumstances of the collision, writing an extensive report equivalent to a Master’s thesis on the cause(s) of the collision, submitting the report to the parties involved for their insurance… Read more »

    watchdogman
    Guest
    watchdogman

    The FBI has been insidious cancer in America. Time to punch their ticket or regulate them to lab work only. Once an FBI person, they become little dictators with a gun and they use it indiscriminately. How many people have the killed that were innocent folks? I lost count.

    Gregory Romeu
    Guest
    Gregory Romeu

    My dear, sweet cousin did 40 years with the bueau and until before that time, each and every word that came out of her mouth was like Sweet Southern honey rolling off her tongue. After several years in the Bureau for character and demeanor changed. By the time she got out she was teaching drunken Sailors how to cuss and would make a marine sound like a sissy if they even tried!
    Semper Fidelis

    Rock
    Guest
    Rock

    I JUST found out lastnight (no shit) that J.Edgar Hoover was a homosexual ! I never knew that, probably FEW ever did….. They said his power over the F.B.I was due to what he “had” on the F.B.I. agents and officials, thus the fact that Hoover was gay never being known to the public due to the fear of internal F.B.I info getting out… I guess that STILL stands true to this day ! THEIR misdeeds, illegalities, skeletons kept behind their walls while they point fingers and investigate those outside of their walls only. Well Mr. Mueller, what is known… Read more »

    alex
    Guest
    alex

    the homo used to dress up in a toto with make up ,lipstick,the work! he was a flaming sexual deviate,and yes it was said he had tons of dirt on congressmen,senators and president. oh wait,it’s really no different today,just look at the CIA,FBI now.

    Ronald Nuxon
    Guest
    Ronald Nuxon

    In many, but not all, law enforcement personnel there is an ingrained mentality: “I have mine, you don’t need or shouldn’t have yours”.

    Donald L. Cline
    Guest
    Donald L. Cline

    That is true only of appointed Chiefs, who are appointed on the basis of their willingness to carry the political water of the town council. Over 95% of the rank and file members believe in and support the civilian right to keep and bear arms.

    Carlo
    Guest
    Carlo

    Every time you open your mouth you just enforce how ignorant you are of the law. You have no clue what it is like being a cop. I was not generating revenue and was never told to do so. I liked my work. Throw all the Latin around you want you are still an ignorant ass. I hope every cop that reads this papers your ass all up and down you for being dumber than a shovel.

    David Russell
    Guest
    David Russell

    As with all liberals of the last century, their political views must always be held suspect because of their inherent bad moral character. They are the champions of infanticide, sexual perversion and rampant drug use among other character flaws.

    The White Rose
    Guest
    The White Rose

    David…to the point, well stated, and supported…Never Again!

    Green Mtn. Boy
    Guest
    Green Mtn. Boy

    I wonder if somewhere there isn’t a picture of J. Edgar and his S&W registered combat masterpiece number 1,in one of his pretty dresses.

    Joseph P Martin
    Guest
    Joseph P Martin

    The vast majority of Federal Law Enforcement Officers with few exceptions are nothing more than bureaucrats with guns who will do whatever they are told in order to advance their careers. They are not needed and are not Constitutional.

    Roy D.
    Guest
    Roy D.

    There is a price to be paid for doing the “right” thing. Some of us paid that price, most do not.

    n.r.ringlee
    Guest
    n.r.ringlee

    So tell me, any of you who have actually worked with the FBI or any other alphabet agency can you honestly say you entrust these people with your liberty? I have. I do not. Semper Fidelis

    Roy D.
    Guest
    Roy D.

    Yes I have, and no I don’t.

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    I have and…..are you kidding? Ask me if I’d entrust my Rights to them and you’d better have a replacement battery for my pacemaker ready. I’d die laughing.

    Gregory Romeu
    Guest
    Gregory Romeu

    My dear, sweet cousin did 40 years with the bueau and until before that time, each and every word that came out of her mouth was like Sweet Southern honey rolling off her tongue. After several years in the Bureau for character and demeanor changed. By the time she got out she was teaching drunken Sailors how to cuss and would make a marine sound like a sissy if they even tried!
    Semper Fidelis

    Allan Morrison
    Guest
    Allan Morrison

    My parents lived both under the Nazis and the Soviets. Their respective “alphabet agencies” were the agents disarming those who didn’t agree with their enslavement policies and then murdering them to squelch opposition. The gun and what comes out of the barrel is all that keeps these “only ones” assholes in check. All you target shooters and deer hunters better be aware the real reason that tool is in your warm, live hands.