Virginia Man Sentenced to Five Years in Prison for Gun Trafficking

Justice Jury Judges Gavel Lawsuit Legal iStock-935671782
Virginia Man Sentenced to Five Years in Prison for Gun Trafficking, iStock-935671782

CAMDEN, N.J. – -(AmmoLand.com)- A Virginia man has been sentenced to 60 months in prison for conspiring to traffic 35 guns into New Jersey, U.S. Attorney Craig Carpenito announced today.

Shawn K. Harvey, 54, of Locust Grove, Virginia, was previously convicted of one count of conspiracy to traffic firearms and three counts of trafficking firearms following a two-week trial before U.S. District Judge Noel L. Hillman. Judge Hillman imposed the sentence Dec. 17, 2019, in Camden federal court.

According to documents filed in this case and the evidence presented at trial: Shawn K. Harvey and his son, Shawn M. Harvey, a/k/a “Munchy,” 29, also of Locust Grove, were originally arrested in August 2016 after agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) directed and supervised a sting operation using a confidential informant, who purchased firearms from the Harveys at a parking lot in Pennsauken, New Jersey.

Ultimately, the Harveys sold 35 firearms – including assault-style rifles, revolvers, shotguns, and semi-automatic handguns – in 11 separate transactions spanning several weeks.

One of these firearms was reported stolen in Virginia and many of the guns were brand new and came with ammunition.

In addition to the prison term, Judge Hillman sentenced Shawn K. Harvey to three years of supervised release. Shawn M. Harvey previously pleaded guilty and is scheduled to be sentenced Jan. 8, 2020.

U.S. Attorney Carpenito credited ATF special agents, under the direction of Special Agent in Charge Charlie J. Patterson, Newark Field Division, with the investigation leading to the sentencing.

The government is represented by Assistant U.S. Attorney Sara A. Aliabadi of the U.S. Attorney’s Office Criminal Division in Camden.

Defense counsel: A. Harold Kokes Esq., Pleasantville, New Jersey

Newark Field Division


Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives ( ATF )Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives

ATF is the federal law enforcement agency responsible for investigating violations of the federal firearms and explosives laws and regulations. More information about ATF and its programs can be found at www.atf.gov.

106 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Don
Don
1 year ago

I don’t get the hate towards the ATF. Here were two dirt bags selling guns to gangbangers. We preach that the government should enforce existing laws. Well these two were buying guns and engaging in interstate commerce in violation of federal and NJ law. The ATF targeted dirt bags breaking the law. These are the people that make it bad for legitimate gun owners. Yet, here we have ATF hate when we should be encouraging them to keep up targeting more dirt bags.

Neanderthal75
Neanderthal75
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

The hatred is easy to understand: Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Should you need further incentive, just take a look at how bureaucrats invoke the sole Congressional authority to make laws by simple policy changes via the issuance of published letters.

The ATF is a threat to the Constitution andd to constitutional rights.

Cheers from the Oil Patch in Central Wyoming

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Neanderthal75

At Ruby ridge it was USMS that fired the first shots, killing the dog and boy. Then it was the FBI. At Waco the first gunfight was ATF, and they screwed things up. But it was the FBI that killed everybody else. The ATF in essence existed for just about ever. The feds taxed booze from the earliest times. They were part of the department of revenue during prohibition. They were going when the NFA ’34 was authorized. I hate the NFA ’34 and GCA ’68. Having been a gun dealer for decades, I have little sympathy for bad people… Read more »

Arny
Arny
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

For one where did it even say they were selling them to gang bangers ? It was a “confidential informant”. Just because you decide to play their game doesn’t mean everyone else should. And it surely doesn’t make it right.

RoyD
RoyD
1 year ago
Reply to  Neanderthal75

For some of us it goes back much, much farther than those two incidents.

BigJim
BigJim
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Fine Don, then go get Eric Holder and throw him in the clink for awhile for his crimes then pitch your bumpstock edict in the trash & we’ll give ATF some respect back.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  BigJim

, An excellent point. Part time AGUS and full time criminal Eric Holder discovered that the “Golden People” in government can break any federal statute.

BigJim
BigJim
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

Thanks WB. It’s tough to have respect for them if they can throw the keys away on one and ignore the “Golden People”.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  BigJim

Holder and Obama should be sharing a cell in a Mexican prison. I have always been for that. Remember it WAS ATF agents that spilled the beans on the operation. Not all of them are bad.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  BigJim

Congress did censure him. I thought Holder deserved to be jailed. Yet he is the only AG to ever face congress under such circumstances.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

, ATF has a long history of creating evidence in their own lab to secure convictions; adding Code of Federal Regulations sections that bend the NFA and GCA; and agents that use suspicious techniques to obtain convictions.
Other federal agencies refer to them as Assholes Taking Firearms, for good reasons.

Tionico
Tionico
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

WHY is sale of a piece of personal property across state lines a FELONY? Stick THAT into your Constitution and find out where it fits.. it does not. Now, the selling of such items to persons disallowed by law to possess them IS wrong, and the selling of STOLEN weapons is wrong. But the fact that they transported those arms across an imaginiary dotted line in the dirt somewhere should be irrelevant. Unfortunatly federal unconstitutinal “laws” (that really are not because they are contrary to the Cosntittuion’s guarantee of our right to KEEP (own, possess, buy, sell, transport) and BEAR… Read more »

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Tionico

Six states routinely violate the constitution, but so far no SCOTUS ruling has seen fit to reverse those states onerous laws. We’ve seen victories with Heller and McDonald, but we still have CA, NJ, DC, MD, NY and CT strictly enforcing unconstitutional laws.

Finnky
Finnky
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

@Don – Perhaps some the hate toward ATF is in anticipation of them enforcing new democrat dictates in the next few years. If trump loses in 2020, we can all expect some pretty draconian edicts being issued. Several candidates have stated that they would outlaw standard firearms through executive orders. After ATF gave in to trump, we can expect no better treatment of semi-auto anything – from glocks to ARs they will all become illegal at the stroke of a pen, without any congressional input. ATF can be expected to immediately begin enforcement without waiting for the inevitable SCOTUS intervention.… Read more »

Laddyboy
Laddyboy
1 year ago

“ATF is the federal law enforcement agency responsible for investigating violations of the federal firearms and explosives laws and regulations.” Yep! The “atf” is a NON-ELECTED BUREAUCRATIC governmental agency that WE THE LEGAL LAW ABIDING AMERICAN CITIZEN had NO SAY and was created and formed ILLEGALLY by the IRS.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Laddyboy

We had a say in the creation of the ATF. WE elected representatives, congressmen and senators to do that job and they did.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

, ATF was not created by Congress. ATF was created by a memo by Sec. Treas. on his own authority. ATF can be eliminated with merely another memo.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

ATF existed as part of the Department of Revenue long before the name change to ATF.

Jeffersonian
Jeffersonian
1 year ago

Why is Ammoland posting press releases from door-kicking puppy-shooting kitten-stomping baby-burners?
These people are the *enemy*.

jack mac
jack mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeffersonian

Jeffer: The more we learn about the actives of the enemy the better.

Torn
Torn
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeffersonian

Well they were certainly doing their jobs in this instance! Or would you rather have “Munchy” and his Dad get away with stolen guns and selling guns and ammo to gangbangers?

BigJim
BigJim
1 year ago
Reply to  Torn

One of 35 was reported stolen. Hmm?

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Torn

, Who is the bigger criminal enterprise? Could it be BATFE enforcing unconstitutional acts of Congress, and stealing freedom from hundreds of millions of people or Munchy and his father?

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeffersonian

It is good that AmmoLand publishes press releases from the ATF. It is a public service. ATF did its job well.

UncleT
UncleT
1 year ago

Just think when they pass UBC’s across this country you can be a gun trafficker by giving your guns to your grand children, nieces and nephews without the govt permission for each transactions.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  UncleT

@UT, Yeah? Well … I plan to be a deathbed gun trafficker.

Tionico
Tionico
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

Best way to do that is to drive over and visit them, bring your items inside, and since you are an old docger with a faiing memory, simply “forget’ to drag them back out to the car when you get in it and drive home again.

Best played with guns you have owned for long enough your aquisitions predate the UBC “mandates”.. so they can’t prove a thing. If you have owned in item since before the BGC was mandated, they cannot prove it was “transferred” illegally beause the cannot prove it was “transfered AFTER the newl mandatee BGC.

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
1 year ago

Basically the guy is going to a cage because he engaged in free enterprise. A right cannot be converted into something you have to pay for.

AZ Lefty
AZ Lefty
1 year ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

No he is going to jail for willfully violating Federal law; he is no different than a Cartel drug pusher

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  AZ Lefty

, Do you think that the federal statute, on its face, repugnant to the Constitution, is really law?

jack mac
jack mac
1 year ago
Reply to  AZ Lefty

Lefty: The laws used to arrest this man are acts of oppression. He willfully defied oppression.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  jack mac

He conspired to sell guns to bad guys, he didn’t intend to sell them to legitimate buyers. His greed overwhelmed his common sense.

BigJim
BigJim
1 year ago
Reply to  AZ Lefty

lazy lefty; i see this coming back as a lawsuit if this man spends time in prison.
You have not done your homework. You lefty’s cost taxpayers millions because you fail to read and properly understand the Constition. Thanks for wasting more of our money.

Finnky
Finnky
1 year ago
Reply to  AZ Lefty

@AZL – No different from other businessmen engaged in disfavored businesses. My only problem with drug cartels is the violence they use to control “their” business and turf. Full legalization would drastically reduce “real” crime associated with drug dealing and probably reduce crime in MX at the same time.

Laddyboy
Laddyboy
1 year ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

Having a “stolen gun” is the ONLY charge levied against these men.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Laddyboy

Engaging in interstate commerce in firearms without a FFL. Failure to do 4473 NICS checks. These guys were dirty.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

, The GCA is repugnant to the Constitution, ergo the charge that you proffer is invalid. If they are dirty, then due process requires that they be convicted of the proper charge.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

Do you think gun dealers should not be licensed?

Tionico
Tionico
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

I do. WHY is that category of personal property so restricted, or infringed? Handguns are no different, under the Cosntitution, than, say, lawnmowers, kitchen blenders, cowboy boots,bicycles, or tires for cars. READ your Constituton and find WHERE i there FedGov have a smidgen of authority to regulate (infroinge) on firearms, or the sale, transport, manufacturing, or any other aspect of guns or ammunition.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Tionico

Guns are taxed. FET tax of 10% on long guns and ammo and 11% on handguns. The feds could not outlaw them, they could only tax them.

Finnky
Finnky
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

– So far. Just wait for next demo dominated government, be it 2021, 2025, or 2033.

Finnky
Finnky
1 year ago
Reply to  Tionico

– Licenses are required to conduct broad categories of businesses. If I’m not mistaken that includes things from car sales to insurance sales. Conceptually, I’ve got no problem with licensing firearms dealers – after all, I want to know that someone else is doing the work to insure I’m not being sold cheap Chinese knockoffs.
That said, I think ATF goes way to far in intrusiveness, among other things.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

They were convicted of conspiracy to traffic arms in interstate commerce. They could have been charged under state laws, except it was a sting. They did conspire to sell guns unlawfully in NJ.

Tionico
Tionico
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

and those laws in those categories they violated are NOT LAW, null, void, and of no effect, as they are NOT enacted consistent with or persuant to the US Constituton. Show me where they are….. in fact, that document specifically appoints to FedGof the task of maintaining free and open trade amongst the several states. FedGov have failed to do this job, the whiles enacting laws contrary to the letter and spirit of the Constitutoin. WHERE does that document provide for FedGov the authority to do anything related to those activities? Can I sell bed pillows made in one state… Read more »

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

Gun dealers needed an FFL before the GCA ’68.

Tionico
Tionico
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

those two activities are NOT crimes, as the “law” mandating agaisnt them is not consistent with the Constituton. However, trafficking in STOLEN arms IS a crime, as the original owners were harmed (victims) by virtue of their property having been stolen, then resold by people who KNEW or shuold have known they were stolen. Their real crime was not engaging in the sale of arms, nor transporting them interstate. But in handling STOLEN property. Whether they were firearms or sotlen water pumps for Hondas is irrelevant.

BigJim
BigJim
1 year ago

This is an interesting one. First why would U.S. attourneys attemt to enforce New Jersey state law? Unless Harvey intended to make a profit from these sales, I see this case as bogus. Judge Hillman allowed this to proceed as trafficking from one State to another?
Because this is a Federal agency and not a State, they should not be enforcing state law.
Somebody correct me here if I’m wrong, it seems something is not right with this one.

BigJim
BigJim
1 year ago
Reply to  BigJim

Furthermore New Jersey law is unconstitional.

AZ Lefty
AZ Lefty
1 year ago
Reply to  BigJim

Firearms trafficking is a Federal crime; he was arrested tried and convicted for violating Federal law

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  AZ Lefty

, Or could it be that he was arrested tried and convicted for violating an unconstitutional Federal statute?

Laddyboy
Laddyboy
1 year ago
Reply to  AZ Lefty

This strikes me as governmental “SHADES OF PRESIDENT Trump BEING “IMPEACHED”.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Laddyboy

@Laddy, I sure hope that DJT learns something from this experience.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  BigJim

ATF enforced federal laws. You don’t charge people with state crimes in federal court.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

, unless a federal official is charged with a state law violation, by a state or county prosecutor. The procedure is called Removal to Federal court. When Horimuchi killed that woman at Ruby Ridge, he was charged with murder, by a courageous county prosecutor. The case was removed to federal court and the state charges were dismissed.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

As you remember he operated under bad rules of engagement. Weaver lost her life and Harris was wounded. Both Randy Weaver and Harris sought relief in the courts and were awarded cash. It WAS the FBI that shot Randy and Vicki Weaver, not the ATF. It was the US Marshal Service that shot the dog and Sammy Weaver. Marshal Deagan was killed.

RoyD
RoyD
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Don, what do you do in your spare time when you are not aspirating FBI and BATFE penises? Inquiring minds want to know.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  RoyD

That is such an adult comment. Very professional. Contrary to my criticism of ATF and FBI and USMS you think I suck up to them.
Grow up.

Will Flatt
Will Flatt
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Horiuchi was unconstitutionally shielded from lawful prosecution by a rogue federal government. The men who ordered and implemented the criminal “shoot to kill on sight” command were merely demoted, not prosecuted as they should have been; and even at that the feds promoted those same people after the controversy died down. Immediately after they were promoted and given a massive pay raise, they played key roles in Waco and the OKC false flag bombing. Those who stayed on with the feds till after 9/11 were assigned to Boston, NYC, and DC and played their part in 9/11 as well. The… Read more »

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

“false flag bombing”? you are nuts. I bet you think Sandy Hook was a hoax as well. Birthers, Truthers and Hoaxers are mentally defective.

Will Flatt
Will Flatt
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Don, you are truly a know-nothing. ANFO bombs are low-order slow explosives. Good for removing tree stumps but absolutely useless for damaging hardened installations like federal buildings. The BATF had 1/2 ton of high explosives in a vault directly under the daycare center and the columns that were collapsed were cut with PETN shaped explosive cord wrapped around them. General Benton Partin confirmed this; he’s the nation’s #1 explosive ordnance expert. Tim McVeigh wasn’t even the last ahole to get out of the Ryder truck, this was confirmed by multiple witnesses. The government’s story is as bogus for OKC as… Read more »

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

YOU are exceptionally stupid. ANFO has been used to simulate tactical nuclear devices. Sensitized with racing fuel it goes very high order. Mixed with aluminum powder (not used at OKC) it detonates with the force of TNT. A-bombs are calibrated as to the destructive power of TNT, kilo tons. I was a “LeRoy” on a small bomb team (despite the negative meaning of LeRoy, it was effectionatly used) I was the number two on the team and we detonated quite a bit of sensitized ammonium nitrate. Especially if the prills were pulverized and aluminum powder mixed it went off, well… Read more »

Will Flatt
Will Flatt
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

@Don – ANFO is just that – ammonium nitrate and fuel oil. No other substances were used in the Ryder truck. LOW ORDER DETONATION ONLY, IN THIS RESPECT. Yeah, it’d shatter windows, but since the Ryder truck was set off at least 15-20 feet from the building, all that energy dissipated into the air. THERE WAS NO TAMPING OF THE EXPLOSIVES AGAINST THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING. THE FEDS COULDN’T EVEN GET THEIR LIES STRAIGHT AND McVEIGH’S LAWYER IS A SELF-AGGRANDIZING PRIC K. WATCH “A NOBLE LIE” AND IF YOU HAVE ANY BALLS, CALL CHARLES KEY AND THOSE INVOLVED IN… Read more »

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

McVeigh use high octaine racing fuel as the sensitizer. He had tons of sensitized ANFO. Track the high order INDUSTRIAL BLASTS. Blasts that destroy cities, ship yard, missile plants and DOD test sites. Maybe you’re too young to remmember these events.

Will Flatt
Will Flatt
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Bull malarkey, you’re peddling disinfo. there was no racing fuel in the ANFO, I know that for a fact, you’re flat out lying. I personally know the investigators.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

The was racing fuel, mixed in at the park the night before the attack. I recommend you read the story of McVeigh in American Terrorist.

Will Flatt
Will Flatt
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

That book is pure lies & propaganda. Stop peddling lies and false narratives. People know better.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

You are a liar. an uninformed liar.McVeigh used a lot of racing fuel, not just diesel . Look to the blast at West, Texas, Huge blast with just AN. Challenge me on individual facts. Quote my observation and give a correct answer. That doesn’t mean some answer from a conspiracy nut case. Tell us the truth, you are a birther, 9-11 Truther and a Sandy Hook Hoaxer. I can tell a persons mental state by what they believe about those . Unlike you, I am a Vietnam Vet personally. The dumbest people regarding guns and the like were the veterans… Read more »

Will Flatt
Will Flatt
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Well I see you’re gonna triple down on your lies, damned lies and bullschitt, Don. Go home to mommy. Stolen valor POS! You have NO CLUE about what the independent investigation showed.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

McVeigh bought (3) 55 gallon barrels of nitromethane for the bomb. I read official reports, not some lunatics conspiracy blog.
The flaming middle finger is so adult. The sucking dick comment so professional. Typical of the uninformed conspiracy liars. You can’t handle the truth so you start name calling. Stupid people.

Will Flatt
Will Flatt
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Says the man who’s citing the official BS government cover story. Oh, look, McVeigh’s signature is here, therefore he must’ve done X. Yet the independent investigation by non-conspiracy-theorist experts goes completely answered. YOU are the shill, now sod off.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

McVeigh admitted guilt in interviews. He was a dirt bag, child killer. He killed 160 some innocent people.

Arny
Arny
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Okay so during the cleanup of 9/11 we have some video footage. Do tell what cut the core columns off in this video ? I guess they just fell in on themselves from the pressure ? Such precise cuts. Almost like with a torch or explosives. lol And how did Tower 7 fall ? No plane impact, no weight of existing floors & we surely know fire didn’t bring it down. I was a iron worker, have done commercial jobs. Sorry their theory doesn’t fly with me or with many architects & engineers. https://youtu.be/CEsesnzDBvA?t=187

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

Did you ever see the Texas City, Texas ship explosion where it wiped out much of the city? Or the Roseburg, Oregon truck explosion? Look up the DOD study on the blast effects of simulated nuclear explosions where AN was used.

Will Flatt
Will Flatt
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Nutter.
Just. Shut. Up.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

Minimal brain power at work on your side. I suggest you read the reports. YOU are a hoaxer aren’t you?

Will Flatt
Will Flatt
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

I don’t need to be an aerospace engineer to get the intellectual drop on YOU, Don. Your zero brainpower fits perfectly with government lies and MSM propaganda. You are doing the work of the enemies of liberty. So STICK IT

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

So you haven’t seen the Texas City, Texas or West, Texas or Roseburg blasts. Look up ammonium nitrate disasters. Dozens of massive blasts killing hundreds with just AN. I know, you fear the truth and would rather call names.

Will Flatt
Will Flatt
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

No, they’re not germane to the OKC case, because the ANFO bomb preceded the other by several seconds, AS CONFIRMED BY SURVIVORS THAT WERE IN THE BUILDING.

But sure, dipwit, you keep digging your hole deeper.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

Seriously, you are a fool.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

There was NO secondary blast, just the collapse of the building. ATF and FBI only keep non-lethal devices in the vault. Tear gas, flash bangs and smoke. Usually the HE, in limited amounts is kept at a secure facility away from population centers. Often the police firing range.

Will Flatt
Will Flatt
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Keep lying to yourself, troll.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

YOU can’t take the truth. What a wimp.

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

ATF would not store a half-ton of explosives in the building. It wound be in an off-site magazine away from population centers.
We had magazines and could not keep them close by. Separate magazines for detonator caps and cord. We kept a frag bag around. It could handle a 20mm HE round, or like we did fireworks.

Will Flatt
Will Flatt
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

That would’ve been the right thing to do, but we’re talking F-Troop here, the gang that couldn’t shoot straight. This was confirmed. And you’re still making my point by keeping posting stuff that proves you don’t know shit about what actually happened there.

RoyD
RoyD
1 year ago
Reply to  Will Flatt

While I don’t the exact chemical makeup of the bomb let me relate what I do know. At the time of the bomb going off I was sitting at my kitchen table right at eleven miles west and two miles north of the detonation. I heard and felt a very distinct shock wave and the boom. I was doing some reloading and was listening to the radio as I was going to listen to Gordon Liddy who came on after 9:00. After the boom I went outside and looked and listened for the airplane I thought was responsible for the… Read more »

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  RoyD

If you were involved then you probably know Gerald that ran the show. I took a coroners class from him and his partner where we discussed the OKC blast in depth. It WAS a sensitized high order explosion using ANFO. McVeigh was guilty as sin can be. There was no secondary explosion caused by 1000 pounds of ATF HE stored under the children. You didn’t hear a second blast did you? The conspiracy people are exceptionally gullible and can’t ever accept the official reports. I learned of it as I was walking into the PD. The chief said it had… Read more »

RoyD
RoyD
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

The reason the “second blast” got so much play was that seismic instruments registered another shock wave right after the first one from the blast. This was later found to be either the fall of the debris into the crater or a echo reflection off nearby building(s). It took a while to sort that out and, well, you know how some people can’t accept certain facts as facts. Thinking on the bomb itself I seem to remember that they used “plastic logs” of high explosive as a booster on top of the main charge. They stole those from some construction… Read more »

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  RoyD

ANFO when properly mixed detonates as a high explosive, contrary to the idiots claiming otherwise. Just do your own google search and the thing that stands out is ANFO is a high explosive. Others called it a slow explosive, it is supposed to be “low” explosive like black powder. But OKC had a high order detonation. The building was NOT a hardened structure. Contrary to the deniers, the official report is quite complete and accurate. I tend to believe official reports over blogs by conspiracy buffs.

Arny
Arny
1 year ago
Reply to  RoyD

Really you couldn’t differentiate if it was your old lady (which must be in the heavy side? or a plane. But you knew it was a bomb for Waco, LMAO I went outside and looked and listened for the airplane I thought was responsible for the event. No plane in sight and no jet engine noise. I then looked around for smoke from a oilfield tank battery explosion or a house explosion and saw neither. I then went into the house and because my wife was taking a shower and it was on the other side of the wall which… Read more »

Deplorable Bill
Deplorable Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Don, who was it that talked Weaver into cutting his shotgun barrel to 17 3/4″??? Who was it that issued the kill order??? WHY??? Who was it that was under congressional scrutiny BEFORE Waco happened? I M O they could have and should have nabbed the cult leader IN Waco, in the town of Waco BEFORE the attack on the complex. Watching 93 men, women and children burn to death live on national TV is among the things that I won’t forget. They did this attack to prove “job justification” to congress. Yes, Reno should have been arrested for approving… Read more »

Don
Don
1 year ago

ATF worked the initial Weaver case. It was wrong to do. The order to shoot to kill armed adults was FBI, Porter. I don’t trust the ATF or FBI. ATF enforces laws passed by congress and signed into law by the president. Blame them. Get SCOTUS to rule on the constitutionality of gun laws. We have a system that is not being used to protect the citizens. ATF have control over guns because congress taxes the production of guns and ammo. Get congress to stop the taxation and the ATF would not have a “F” issue. I have not personally… Read more »

Don
Don
1 year ago

Why was Weaver so dumb as to cut the barrels 1/4 inch too short for a couple of men posing as Neo-nazis? Why did he associate with the Church of Jesus Christ – Christian, Richard Butler’s nazis.? He kept dirty friends.

Tionico
Tionico
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

on WHAT Constituoinal authority can FedGov dictate how long the barrel of any firearm me or not be? Riddle me THAT Paco WHO says, and on WHAT basis , how many inches a barrel must be to be “lega”? And on what basis is some arbitrary length specified? WHy not a half inch more, or two inches less? I have a revolver with a 9.5 inch barrel. It it were fourteen inches, or sixteen inches, or 16.125 inches it would STILL be a revolver. I have a .22 rifle with a 16 inch barrel, If the barrel were 15.5, 15.125,… Read more »

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  Tionico

Congress voted on barrel length in NFA ’34. It is why I say NFA ’34 should be repealed. We shouldn’t have barrel length restrictions. Machine guns should be legal without a $200 tax. If you notice congress did not outlaw the guns, they taxed them.
YOU don’t even know that the National Firearms ACT was an act of congress. Tell me again how dumb I am.

Don
Don
1 year ago

The initial siege took place under George HW Bush and soon became a Clinton Reno operation. It was mishandled from the beginning.

Tionico
Tionico
1 year ago
Reply to  BigJim

trading in firearms across state lines is, per federal law, is a felony unless the one trading is a licensed FFL dealer. This should NOT be the law, but it IS on the books because no one has ever challenged the constituinality of such laws. NOWHERE in the Constitution is this authoroty given FedGov. Nor can any state restrict trade between itself and any other state, whether on the sending or receiveing end of the transactionis. Not per the constitution, anyway.One more case where illegal laws are “enforced”..Except that the accused are convicted of transportint STOLEN goods for sale, whether… Read more »

KDude
KDude
1 year ago

Not much in the Constitution regarding the funding, or granting authority to a federal “law enforcement” agency which is entirely unaccountable to tax payers. So, without that, they’re merely armed thugs who use intimidation, armed robbery, and outright murder to implement their agenda. An agenda which includes trafficking firearms to cartels and terrorists. Time for ATFE to go, before they get more letters, and more taxpayer money.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  KDude

@KD, Who or What is the BATF? by Dan Meador. B.A.T.F. from I.R.S. On June 6, 1972 Acting Secretary of the Treasury, Charles E. Walker signed Treasury Order Number 120-01 which establishes the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. He did this with the stroke of his PEN citing, “by virtue of the authority vested in me as Secretary of the Treasury, including the authority in Reorganization Plan No. 26 of 1950.” He ordered the, “transfer, as specified herein, the functions, powers and duties of the Internal Revenue Service arising under laws relating to alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives (including… Read more »

Don
Don
1 year ago
Reply to  KDude

ATF operations are funded by congress in every annual budget. They have oversight by congress. Where have you been?

Arny
Arny
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Only when some black ops go wrong like Fast & Furious. Iran Contra, etc. Where is the oversight ? They all should be in jail. They’re all complicit. Hell these two got jail for less. No one died form their actions but they have under our so called oversight. And where was the ATF when the largest security form was losing (selling ?) their firearms that were used in crimes involving murder. https://realclearpolitics.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=61572bb8acf7b8704903af7b8&id=1470d273cd&e=40caaeb108

JPM
JPM
1 year ago

I don’t believe a single thing in this ATF bullshit propaganda, other than a citizen was arrested and sentenced using ATF “evidence” and a “sting” operation and a “confidential informant”. Too many times the ATF has lied, falsified information and even murdered innocent citizens for me to believe anything these incompetent Government thugs put out. By and large, they are a joke to the Law Enforcement Community at all levels and it is known that if you can’t even qualify for a job as a mall cop, the ATF will hire you and eventually make you a “Special Agent in… Read more »

Deplorable Bill
Deplorable Bill
1 year ago

Wow, the way I read the 2A is we ” the people have the right and are mandated to keep and bear arms.” Unless someone is under age, in jail or the loony farm, every American citizen has the right to keep and bear arms. Sooner or later those who legislate, judge, lawyer, enforce or finance laws that are treasonous to the constitution, the people and the nation are going to be prosecuted, sentenced and have the sentence carried out. The lawful, legitimate sentence for treason is death. I hope it goes through the courts but we Americans have seen… Read more »

Don
Don
1 year ago

There are quite a few people I don’t want to have guns. We need some controls. We need to repeal the NFA ’34 and most of the GCA ’68. But I don’t want genuine nuts and violent felons to have guns. Nor do I want drug addicts to be armed. Being a gun dealer for decades I objected to the lacks rules of gun shows. So many stolen guns went through the shows. Since dealers had to do used goods reports we found stolen guns. Most of them came from good customers that had bought them at gun shows.

Deplorable Bill
Deplorable Bill
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

Anyone who is not fit mentally should be in the loony farm. Violent/murderous people should be jailed but anybody else who IS a citizen is mandated to and has the right to keep and bear arms. That is the 2A, that is Luke 22:36. Rights are among those things that can’t be legally regulated or removed or delayed. Also, when someone gets out of jail, their slate is clean because they paid for their crime by going to jail. No? Consider this; the AVERAGE person commits THREE FELONIES PER DAY. That being said Don, there are people that I also… Read more »

Don
Don
1 year ago

Murderers get out of prison. Many that do go on to murder again. Rapist and child molesters get out of prison. Their records should follow them.

Arny
Arny
1 year ago
Reply to  Don

So that is because liberal judges fail to give the sentence they deserve or a lawyer gets them free thru a loophole. Look at how many violent felons are let free knowing they will strike again. Executions would be useful. Especially once they are convicted of the same crime numerous times. Chain gangs would fix a lot of these problems.Forced labor like the old days.