NRA Releases Official Statement Regarding The ATF and Pistol Braces

ATF Emblem NRA-ILA
The ATF is up to their gun-banning tricks again. IMG NRA-ILA

U.S.A. -(AmmoLand.com)- By completely changing course on earlier decisions, BATFE has signaled that it is ready and eager to collaborate with Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and other gun control extremists to infringe on our Second Amendment rights.

The NRA will fight these aggressive anti-gun actions on pistol stabilizing braces and Polymer80. Gun owners know elections have consequences.

This is why we must all fight to protect the pro-gun Senate majority in the run-off races in Georgia.

Read the ATF’s Notice on Stabilizing Braces here.

NRA Official Statement Regarding The ATF and Pistol Braces


About NRA-ILA:

Established in 1975, the Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) is the “lobbying” arm of the National Rifle Association of America. ILA is responsible for preserving the right of all law-abiding individuals in the legislative, political, and legal arenas, to purchase, possess, and use firearms for legitimate purposes as guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Visit: www.nra.org

National Rifle Association Institute For Legislative Action (NRA-ILA)

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tetejaun
tetejaun
2 months ago

KNEEL, limps, kneel and obey.
Yes, you will kneel and obey because you are afraid.
Since ALL these ‘gun laws’ are unconstitutional, they mean nothing.
Yet, you will kneel and obey just the same.

Ignorance and cowardice have tight grips on the American people.
You get what you deserve and are afraid to fight for.

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  tetejaun

Ah, the violent troll is still around I see. The one too cowardly to do anything on his own unless he is hiding behind others. lol

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago

Reposting this in an edited fashion, so that TheRevelator doesn’t get all butthurt about Trump and other forum members get the picture of the real threat here:

See the bigger picture! Attaching a bipod to a Ruger Charger may make it an SBR under these new definitions!!! The DOJ and ATF are changing the definition of an SBR here with a simple rule change, just like they changed the definition of an automatic firearm before with the bump stock ban.

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Now Charlie… That approach may have been the best from the start. Instead of making it about how much Charlie hates Trump.

Isnt it interesting that accurate wording can make all the difference in how a comment comes across.. I’ll give you Kudos for being willing to make the correction, and cancel out the negative you got for it..

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

“Instead of making it about how much Charlie hates Trump.” You made it all about Trump, not me! One has to question why you got so triggered?

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Really. says the guy who when I said don’t blame him for something he may not have had a part in without proof responded with

“IT’S TRUMP! IDIOTS ARE STILL BYING INTO HIS CON! HE IS GUILTY! HE HAS TO BE GUILTY IF HE DOESNT DENOUNCE THIS, AND IF THEY DONT LISTEN TO AN ORDER FROM HIM HE IS TO WEAK TO BE ALLOWED TO BE PRESIDENT AND IS THEREFORE GUILTY!”

Riiiight.bmp
Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

Well, good that I didn’t say this then, right! Despite your quotes making it look like I said it! You are still in the business of rephrasing posts to fit your own narrative, I see. Now even with memes. LOL

Again, one has to wonder why you got so triggered by my original post that you spent hours on this topic and created 2 additional separate discussion threads. Now you are in the process of creating a 3rd, because you can’t let it go. Looks like you have a problem!

Last edited 2 months ago by Charlie Foxtrot
TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

You seem to not know what Paraphrasing is.

So are you now saying you did not launch into a diatribe on republicans “Buying into his con”?

Are you saying you did not say that he is complicit and guilty if he does not denounce it, and then followed it up with lambasting him if the agency ignores him as being incompetent?

Please, do enlighten us as to whether or not you did or did not make these claims.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

So, you are launching yet another discussion thread into this farce that you can’t let go. Well, I will do that for you then! Something got you really triggered here, man!

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Again, running away instead of answering..

If you didnt say anything remotely close to what was presented its a simple “No” answer. 🙂 And yes.. I dont let things go.. Its what makes me a nightmare to people on the left who try to argue with me, as GreenWatchDog learned last year.

So you claimed you didnt say was presented, but cant give a straight up or down yes/no answer when asked… Interesting.. Especially about the comment where you went into the whole “this is a con people are buying into”.

Very Interesting.bmp
TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Will, Thats exactly what should have been done, and was one of my complaints against Trump that he did not do so back in 2017 when he had the chance.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago

To expand on this, as far as I know, attaching a vertical fore grip makes a pistol without a stock or brace an AOW. The reasoning being that: It is no longer designed to be held with one hand. Attaching a stock makes it an SBR. The reasoning being that: It is no longer concealable. The new regulations put forth may make certain pistol configurations an AOW or SBR, as the definitions of what is designed to be held with one hand and what is concealable change. The ATF is purposely creating a mess to force people to register their… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago

Another issue that pops up is that a configuration change may require ATF notification. Swap a scope out on a braced pistol and you may need to notify the ATF? What a mess!

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Still trying to get Charlie to answer this question without trying to change the subject of it. lol

What makes you think that an agency that would want a Joe Biden in the Whitehouse is suddenly going to listen to Donald Trump on a cease and desist order when he possibly has only one month left?

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

Wow, just wow. You certainly don’t disappoint! You keep lying in this forum. I have answered this question in detail and you even replied to my answer. All of this can be read in the other discussion thread below. You just didn’t like my answer. This is a discussion forum where people may have different opinions. Learn to live with it! Are you now so butthurt about this artificial conflict that you created between us that you had to create a 3rd discussion thread on the same topic? I guess your real objective with this post is to get yet… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

No Charlie, you tried to change the question.

I asked what makes you think the agency would listen to his order if he gives it right now.

You tried to turn it into “how do we know Trump ever sent an order” That wasnt the question, but then again thats what you have been doing the entire time.

Now do you want to answer the question as I before stated, honestly without an excuse or attempt to justify things outside the question, make it precise and accurate”?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

TheRevelator,
I believe some would not want to be terminated for insubordination.
I believe some wouldn’t care about being terminated for insubordination, because they would be re-hired next month.

The BATFE had begun increasing their anti-2nd Amendment activities prior to Nov 3. Why didn’t Trump issue them orders to stand down prior to the election?

If they failed to follow his orders at that time, why wouldn’t he terminate them for insubordination?

There was a lot of uncertainty about who was going to be the next president prior to the election.

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Now that was a decent enough answer for the first section. Yes, there should have been more done earlier when it could have. At this point we dont know if it was hidden from Trump however, and with everything else going on that would provide the ideal situation for evil men to try and do so. The question though is if it happens now, what effect will it have. Remember, they are employed under a union and they can fight termination. Its one of the reason I hate unions, they keep truly bad people employed for all the wrong reasons.… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

I thought you asked a good question, but I’m not talking about the conversation you and Charlie are having. You asked why people would follow his order now and I answered the question you asked. I said some people would probably not follow the order and some would. The reason I answered the question that way is if Trump fired Lombardo and put someone new in as Acting Director and that person refused to follow the order and he terminated that person, he would eventually find someone who would follow the order. After I answered your question, I asked two… Read more »

Last edited 2 months ago by JSNMGC
TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Alright, that is fair enough. Thank you for clarifying that you did mean now since the question stipulated the one month left before January 20th. I do believe I partly answered your first question though, so let me elaborate. Without proof and knowing that he did in fact know, whether I believe he knew or not I cannot say for sure that he did just on my opinion. I’m not so sure that he did given how the agencies have been handling things. But that is only pertaining to this particular letter. We do know that some issues came to… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

Thanks. I agree – there is no doubt Lombardo would have landed on her feet, and probably be rehired into the BATFE next month. I do believe if he goes deep enough he will eventually find someone to follow his order. However, as you have said, they will just start back up again next month. I do believe the most likely scenario earlier this year was that he was aware of what was going on and he has no deep, personal convictions about the 2nd Amendment. In fact, those views he does have (and has shared over the years) are… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

I absolutely agree JSNMGC. I’ve been one of Trumps loudest critics here over the years. I’ve quoted statements from his book where he talked about “assault weapons”, I’ve played video of him issuing the order to ban bump stocks here on ammoland. The one thing though is I will not violate constitutional principle for the sake of my own opinions, and only above that is God. What I can’t and wont do is let a false claim be made blatantly without proof. Even the least deserving need to be defended according to the truth. Our nation was started with that… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

For what it’s worth, I didn’t say anything about his anti-2nd Amendment views that he held before he entered politics or his actions/inactions once he entered into politics prior to the election on the internet. I was working diligently behind the scenes to get Republican Party officials to meet with him or his sons to see if he could be persuaded to rein-in the BATFE. Not only did I disagree with what the BATFE was doing, but the battleground states all have a significant number of firearm owners and I was concerned so many were pissed it could affect the… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

I can understand that. I dont have faith in the Republican party anymore, the same way I left the NRA back around 2014. I only brought it up to show that there is reason to have concern when it does come to Trump, but we have to go based on evidence.

Thank you for your work trying to hold our elected officials accountable though. Like you I dont think the Republican party is going to learn. They have shown they have contempt for us who supposedly are their constituents, and people are getting fed up.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

When there was still time to make a difference, here is what I observed from senior Republican Party officials (in a “gun” state): Smug, arrogance that they knew what they were doing – just send money and vote; Disbelief that any Republican voter really felt that strongly that: Trump did not honor his promise for a 2nd Amendment coalition and that after Parkland he committed to banning bump stocks and begged for several types of gun control. They really didn’t think that would be a big deal to people in the firearm community; Complete indifference to what the BATFE was… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Yeah, I believe it. I dont think they will learn from this election though. It wont be until they are stripped of office and not only kicked out of washington, but find they cant just hang around and feed off the systems that they helped set up. I have a feeling that Civil War is coming, and there will be a lot of Republican politicians who will hope they can show up after if the People win back their country, and they are going to be smiling and kissing babies, saying “I was on your side all along!” I wonder… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

You’ve probably seen my comments on “civil war,” “revolutionary war,” and “secession.” I don’t think any of those three things are going to happen, but that doesn’t mean we have smooth sailing ahead.

There are a few groups of people who are going to have to make some hard decisions that may result in them behaving differently in the future than they have in the past.

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

I cant say for sure that I have. I’ve been gone for almost three quarters of the year here due to work circumstances. What I can say is that we have very few avenues left to prevent a civil war, but they do exist. As far as hard decisions I will simply give you mine, as each individual will have to be responsible for their own choice to either their credit or shame. I will not comply with any action or order that I know to be outside of the constitution or against God, and I’m not afraid to defend… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

I understand your personal view completely (although we have already had over a hundred years of unconstitutional actions imposed on citizens). I just don’t see a civil war happening. My point in another thread was what does “civil war” or a “revolution” or a “secession” even look like. Every day on this board people talk about a “civil war,” but when asked what it looks like, the responses were either extremely vague or described something other than “civil war.” For the people who are convinced a “civil war” is inevitable: How many organized groups will be waring against each other… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

JSNMGC, yes I understand it has been 100 years of usurpations and violations. First though, I apologize for the delay in reply. I had some pipes in my basement springs leaks and I needed to get those fixed as well as the mess cleaned up before I worried about online issues. Let me provide you with a little quote. “Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

“Give me liberty or give me death” Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775. No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

It’s not the view I disagree with – it’s the reaction.

I don’t believe there will be a civil war, revolutionary war, or secession of states.

I believe there is a reasonable probability that there will be resistance to acts of enforcement but those are likely to be local. That is way the initial enforcement actions will be against marginal people who have little power and the government and media will go to great lengths to make them look like loons and ruin their life.

Sorry to hear about the water leaks, I hope the damage was minimal.

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

I got the water shut off relatively quickly, but it was a mess to clean up. To the other points I will say this. In order for what you are saying to come to pass The government will have to decide to forgo doing certain actions. If they dont, people wont necessarily rush to retaliate. Also, Yes there will be an attempt to single out individuals. There are many who wont stand, and they will accept that “Oh, those people were just fanatics. I wont grab my gun to help people like that”. And slowly but surely, there will be… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

You and I are not in disagreement. It’s just that “civil war,” “revolution,” and “secession” are all words with meanings. I don’t believe any of those things will happen. They all involve large groups of organized people and those events would require millions of government employees to make tough decisions.

I do believe some of the resistance to individual enforcement actions will be significant and I hope the government doesn’t push it. The people resisting the enforcement actions, as well as their family, friends, neighbors, and local LEOs will all have decisions to make.

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Alright, I wont push you to answer it further. I will simply tell you that many of us have already made our decisions. I wont budge from mine, and I do understand that may ultimately be a death sentence for me. I dont count that as being necessarily a bad thing though, because I know who will judge me in the end and I will be able to stand tall with my eyes up.

Dave in Fairfax
Editor
Dave in Fairfax
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

Exactly my thoughts. Don’t really expect to have to worry about who to vote for in ’24.

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

The nasty stuff is likely going to happen before then. Anyone going along with the “Comply to get by” is going to be in for a rude awakening when the chains of slavery that they forged themselves are clamped on.

Dave in Fairfax
Editor
Dave in Fairfax
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

That’s why the voting isn’t high on my priorities. I figure that either Harris or Northam will push the issue long before that. Remember the coming Alamo, because that’s going to be the tinder that starts the fire.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

I understand. I don’t ask individual people on the internet what they, as an individual, would specifically do when government employees with guns come to their home to enforce unconstitutional laws. I think there are some folks (not you) who think the people they are going to be fighting are the pink-haired cat lady and the scrawny kid wearing skinny jeans and a black pajama top, neither of whom can bench 95 pounds. They don’t realize those are the people who will merely demand that legislators order LEOs to enforce the law. LEOs are the group who will show up… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

No, We do understand that those demanding “Do Something!” are a bunch of weaklings who will attempt to excuse their actions by saying “Well, my finger didnt pull the trigger”, “Well, its not stealing. I’m just voting for higher taxes to take money from people that have more than me.” We know that very well. We also know We outnumber law enforcement. Not all LEO’s are going to be on board with the government, and will side with us. So what happens when it is one of their “Tribe” that shoots one of them? If the fear is that we… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

They wont…. The poison runs too deep. Those currently heading the positions of power within the party have already shown what type of men they are. McCarthy is a california progressive. He was chosen to lead the Republicans in the House because he was about as milquetoast as it got right after Paul Ryan was ousted for his shenanigans. McConnel said back in 2013 that Tea Party constituents needed “to be punched in the nose”. I will say I do not know enough about Ronna McDaniel to speak to how she stands. All I know is that she is Mitt… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

No problem. Ninety percent of us on the board are on the same “side” and all this quibbling is over fairly minor stuff.

Perspective.

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Since Charlie doesnt understand how honesty works, and wants to lie and make accusations about his original statement being reworded, lets look at just what he said. Here is how it works Make an accusation without proof to imply guilt. As an example, “Its Donald Trumps’ DOJ”, making sure to imply blame on the name. Next Put it next to something that person actually did to reinforce fault. Trump did directly call for reclassification of bump stocks. I’ve even posted the video of him doing it here on Ammoland before. Now why is that a problem? Because the moment it… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

More straw man, I see! I guess you really got pissed off that I put the President’s name next to an agency that he as the President ultimately oversees.

But then as I said, I don’t really deal with people that spin such straw men (i.e., lies for the purpose of creating a conflict that really doesn’t exist).

Personal attacks don’t really help your arguments! They just show that you have none!

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

“But then as I said, I don’t really deal with people that spin such straw men (i.e., lies for the purpose of creating a conflict that really doesn’t exist).” Right, which is why you are here writing a response right now. You want to know what a perfect strawman looks like? “Donald Trump isnt rescinding a letter from an agency in the last month he is in office, therefore he is guilty or Joe Biden must already be president. I dont agree with Joe Biden so Trump must be guilty.” You hypocrite. “A straw man is a form of argument and… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

The problem with your straw man is that I didn’t say what you quoted here. I didn’t create a straw man, you did in your mind by reading way too much into my comments. Now you are stuck with the problem that you created this straw man in your mind and posted it in your replies to me. I am now stuck with you asking me to defend something that I didn’t say in the first place! And I have answered several of your questions (in the thread below), even quoting your questions when answering them. So, now you have… Read more »

Last edited 2 months ago by Charlie Foxtrot
TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Sorry Charlie, you did it to yourself. You dont get to shift the blame onto others. This is your Strawman, and has been since your initial reply to your first post. “Donald Trump isnt rescinding a letter from an agency in the last month he is in office, therefore he is guilty or Joe Biden must already be president. I dont agree with Joe Biden so Trump must be guilty.” here is the direct quote “As far as I know Donald J. Trump is the current President of the United States and he can shut this down with a phone call. Also, Donald… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

Yes, here we have again, your straw man! Why should I answer any further questions from you after you posted personal attacks and repeatedly lied about my posts?

You will just continue with this farce, because you simply can’t see your error that you jumped the gun in your first reply to me and then just went down an imaginary road.

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Sorry Charlie, saying it belongs to me over and over again doesnt turn it into mine. What you are doing right now is lying, and you are getting desperate.. You dont want to answer that question because I can show where I started asking it right at the beginning, and you are grasping at any “I dont have to answer that question because _____” You have deliberately avoided it because I have not let you set it up so you can make him guilty either way, for example your statements that if he doesnt do something he is in bed… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

So, you want to continue with your farce? What makes you think that an agency that would want a Joe Biden in the Whitehouse is suddenly going to listen to Donald Trump on a cease and desist order when he possibly has only one month left? First, we have no evidence that President Trump did send a cease and desist order! Second, if they don’t obey that order, then President Trump can still perform corrective actions, including firing people. Third, if they then still don’t obey that order, then President Trump has clearly lost control and is no longer the… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Charlie You are still trying to change the subject and avoid it. The question is not whether or not Trump has done anything yet. Are you that afraid of a simple little question? You still cant even answer it without trying to twist it to something else or come up with justifications. Ok, lets say he starts ordering people fired, how much of a threat is that? In one month they can be right back in, provided those wonderful Unions dont keep it tied up in red tape.. (Remember, Anthony Fauci is getting rehired) A month of vacation time, woo… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago

See the bigger picture! Attaching a bipod to a Ruger Charger may make it an SBR under these new definitions!!! President Trump’s DOJ and ATF are changing the definition of an SBR here with a simple rule change, just like they changed the definition of an automatic firearm before with the bump stock ban.

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Charlie, I dont particularly like Trump. I also was the one speaking out about the danger he presented to our gun rights because of his past history, which proved true. I also have to say that he did a lot of things that were good. At this point, we cannot quite call this “His DOJ” I believe. I also was one of the first here to sound an alarm on Bill Barr. I dont think any of us can point to anything showing Barr to have listened to anything from Trump, all we have is a few clips of him… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

As far as I know Donald J. Trump is the current President of the United States and he can shut this down with a phone call.

Also, Donald J. Trump seems to think that he is still President after January 20. He surely doesn’t behave like it!

Also, Bill Barr has resigned, effective December 23.

I guess Joe Biden is already the President then!

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago

Republican politicians have treated the firearm community like shit for 93 years because there is no end to the number of Republican voters who will make apologies for them, often using twists of logic that defy any sort of reason.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago

Republican politicians have treated the firearm community like sh–t for 93 years because there is no end to the number of Republican voters who will make apologies for them, often using twists of logic that defy any sort of reason.

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Charlie, do you remember Trump’s order banning any and all teaching of a little thing called “Critical Race Theory”? Do you by chance remember how well that went over, or perhaps the fact that several agencies were caught violating that order? Perhaps you can explain why Barr’s resignation would have anything to do with what I previously described, or how it might prove your statement? I can describe how several agencies in the executive branch have worked against or countermanded the president. Do you believe the ATF to be above such action. Or maybe you can explain how the Republican… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

Well, boy, judging by that downvote and no reply, I guess I touched off someone’s trigger!

Whether you like him or not, it’s not right to attribute to him things that he didnt do if you dont have proof. Or is “Innocent until proven Guilty” dead by your standards?

Call him out for the actions he has taken that were wrong.. I have. Also, if someone lies about stuff he has done right, defend the truth.. Last time I checked, thats how we used to do things in America.

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

Honestly, I’d like to see Charlie answer the questions I asked him. A big part of the problem we have today is people refusing to look at evidence when it might disprove their opinion. That friend or coworker you know who looks you in the eye and says “Oh you just heard that from those right wing sources” because he wants an excuse to dismiss what you are saying. It is the age old concept of “Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil”. Its the same two problems I usually run into with people. Refusal to acknowledge or… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

Charlie, do you remember Trump’s order banning any and all teaching of a little thing called “Critical Race Theory”? Yes I do! Do you by chance remember how well that went over, or perhaps the fact that several agencies were caught violating that order? Yes I do! Perhaps you can explain why Barr’s resignation would have anything to do with what I previously described, or how it might prove your statement? Barr’s resignation means just that. He is gone December 23. Does that mean President Trump has zero power to rescind this DOJ notice? If so, Biden is already President!… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

There are actually two more questions I asked, but I put the wrong punctuation on the end.

“Do you believe the ATF to be above such action”? as in willfully defying a presidential order.

And the other was about the republican party, particularly its leadership, but I admit it was a bit of a wild tangent.

Further, you did not answer how Barr’s resignation in anyway shows Donald Trump is behind the ATF doing this.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

Please watch the recently posted video by The Gun Collective, interviewing Alex Bosco. What is clear is that this was months in the making and the original responsibility of the DOJ. The DOJ gave the ATF free rein to put whatever they want in there. Was Barr behind that decision or even aware of it? Who knows. We certainly don’t! Speculating over some deep state conspiracy theory is nonsensical! If President Trump can not rescind this notice, then he is essentially no longer the President, but Biden is! So far, we do not have any evidence that President Trump tried… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

“The DOJ gave the ATF free rein to put whatever they want in there. Was Barr behind that decision or even aware of it? Who knows. We certainly don’t!” So your accusation is actually against Bill Barr then, because you can attribute an action of allowing the ATF carte blanche? Finally though, you admit you dont know.. Thats what I have been trying to get you to understand. For the same reason you are complaining about Trump, I pointed out that Barr was on record saying the Federal Government should regulate firearms in a “reasonable” manner. Now with that being… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

There is a reply to this comment currently being moderated.. Who knows what triggered it, but oh well.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

All I am saying is that Donald J. Trump still claims to be the President, but doesn’t act like it. As I said, it takes one phone call by him to take this DOJ notice down! He certainly hasn’t acted on it, so stop excusing him. There are too many gun owners that still believe in his con! That’s pathetic! For all intents and purposes, Biden is already the President if Donald J. Trump just lets his agencies implement Biden’s policies. Also, I haven’t up- or downvoted anything here. I didn’t even see your first comment until now. Get a… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Charlie.. The man signed an executive order, much more serious than a phone call, and the Agencies still ignored it.. Again, I ask you, what makes you think for one second the agencies in question are all of a sudden going to start listening now? I have never excused Donald Trump for his actions he did take that went against gun owners and the second amendment. STOP BEARING FALSE WITNESS. If you have proof, show it. Not Hearsay, proof. There is a reason I did not specify you in my second response, and why I made it to my comment… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

So the fact that I can not proof that President Trump hasn’t taken any action on it means I am bearing false witness! LOL. You are asking me to prove a negative!

How about you provide proof that President Trump did ANYTHING to fight this? You can’t! The fact that this happened under President Trump’s watch either means he is incompetent or just doesn’t care!

President Trump makes many errors and we are impacted by them. Deal with it! Don’t excuse them with conspiracy theories and then accuse others that complain about President Trump of bearing false witness!

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Charlie, you are trying to flip this around. You implied that Donald Trump is at fault for the current action the ATF is taking. You made an accusation. I asked you to provide proof since you are accusing him. The American System is that the Defendant is innocent until proven guilty. You are now demanding that I prove a negative, that being to prove his innocence if he is not guilty. Now in case you werent paying attention, the man might have his hands full right now.. Remember, they are pretty small. “President Trump makes many errors and we are… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

Looks like we are at the stage where the original post is being reworded into something that it isn’t. Sorry, but I don’t deal with people that do such straw men.

All you did was, once more, excuse President Trump’s incompetence, ignorance and complacency. Who knew that Biden is already President!

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Says the guy who has been insisting that Biden is already president a few times now..

Again, nice hypocrisy there. You sure are good at projecting.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

If President Trump doesn’t act when his agencies implement Biden’s gun control agenda, then Biden is effectively the President and Trump is AWOL (or golfing). There is no hypocrisy here, just FACTS.

Where is President Trump? Why hasn’t he acted on this? Why is he letting this go forward? Are we no longer supposed to ask these questions, but rather blame the deep state with non-existing evidence?

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Do you think his ongoing attempts to get the election looked into might be taking up most of his time? Perhaps the fact that he has to prepare his family for the attacks that are going to be coming once he goes home might be a little more pressing than fighting with an agency that will stall and ignore an order for another month. The problem is not with asking questions… The problem, and what I cautioned you against, was ascribing blame. Now, are you above questioning? Is it “good for me, but not for thee” now? Not once have… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

Can you quote me where I lied, or do you have to rephrase my words to make it look like I did?

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Boy, now that is an interesting question… Now let me ask you one… Do we only go back to the rephrasing that you want us to use, or do we go back to the first one? How about we go where things got twisted in the first place. “Charlie, I dont particularly like Trump. I also was the one speaking out about the danger he presented to our gun rights because of his past history, which proved true. I also have to say that he did a lot of things that were good. At this point, we cannot quite call… Read more »

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

“I guess Biden is already president!” is a straw man now? Interesting! It is a fact, if President Trump lets the ATF implement Biden’s gun control agenda! “Sorry, but I don’t deal with people that do such straw men.” is my lie now? It’s a fact as you created a straw man: “1. You implied that Donald Trump is at fault for the current action the ATF is taking. You made an accusation.” Did I? How? You assumed that I did! All I said was “President Trump’s DOJ and ATF are changing …“. Is it not President Trump’s DOJ and… Read more »

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

You may want to take a moment and facepalm over this one. “I just turned around your own argument and asked you to show me that “you provide proof that President Trump did ANYTHING to fight this?” If you are trying to convince people that your words were twisted to mean something they didnt, dont admit to changing the parameters(I.E. -prove he is doing something to fight this) and then brag about how you deliberately tried to twist the argument….. “You are asking me of proof for something that I didn’t state. All I can state is that this was… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

All my comments are now subject to approval before being released.

Some guy threatened to murder me – that was ok, but you can’t criticize Republicans.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

By the way, you made this discussion all about President Trump. The point of my post was to clarify that this new rule may affect how any pistol, even without a brace, can become an SBR. It also clarified that President Trump’s bump stock ban is used as a template here. A rule change is being used to change the law.

hoss
hoss
2 months ago

Thank NRA, because of you we have the NFAs.

Bill
Bill
2 months ago

Trump won the election by a landslide, and that simple fact is being stolen and hidden, as more and more sleepy and cowardly Americans accept the idea that it is okay for Biden to take the reins in January. Anyone see a problem with a usurper taking over our country, with the help of his corrupt backers? Or, is it time to just grab a Starbucks and get through another day?

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  Bill

Well, it’s President Trump’s DOJ and ATF doing this!

hippybiker
hippybiker
2 months ago

For those of who remember the NRA when Harlan Carter and Neal Knox were involved can see how the organization has degenerated! Even the so called great(From My Cold Dead Hands!) Charlatan Heston, sold out in the 60 for the GCA! Let’s face it. They’ve sold us out since the 1930s! Join GOA, SAF, or some other organization that doesn’t put a knife in our backs! hb

Don
Don
2 months ago

Get over it. You all know that the “braces” are stocks. I have never seen a person using a brace, as a brace. They all use them as shoulder stocks. Look at the way the newer braces are built. They are simply shoulder stocks. Stop with the fake outrage already.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  Don

Are you in favor of removing SBRs from the purview of the NFA of 1934?

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

We will have to wait and see how he chooses to respond.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  TheRevelator

I look forward to having a conversation with him about this topic as well as economics, finance, manufacturing, and the elegance of a free market.

In the past, he has avoided discussing these matters in any detail.

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

And most likely will continue to do so. If he had an argument, he would present his case believing that the merits of the evidence he could present would over rule ours.

He was posting elsewhere, and was aware replies were made to him. He made an argument that was easily defeatable and then didnt have enough back bone to follow up. Thats how things work if you use left wing talking points instead of facts.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

It was my “compromise.”

I want the NFA of 1934 to be repealed. Totalitarians want to expand it to include tens of millions of semi-automatic firearms and countless standard capacity magazines.

Because I am a reasonable person, I will agree to only remove those items from the NFA that have to do with the size and loudness of a particular firearm or firearm with an accessory.

“Surely we can all agree on those commonsense changes to gun laws.”

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago
Reply to  Don

Hey Don.. Get over it.. The Constitution says the Government has no authority under any branch to restrict, limit, prohibit, or mandate anything having to do with firearms or their ownership by the people of the United States because it is a Right..

Stop with the idiotic outrage already.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  Don

I guess “you all know that braces are stocks” is the new “bump stock are just toys.”

TheRevelator
TheRevelator
2 months ago

Yep… Brought to you by FuddCo. They’re like Ronco, only…… Dumber.

tetejaun
tetejaun
2 months ago

UNLIKE the communist democrats, you democrat rat, Trump does not staff the federal government with his buddies and activists and use them to attack folks like gay Barry did.
Again, you ignorant democrats are such a laughing stock when you speak. The ignorance is astounding.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  tetejaun

??? I didn’t know that opposing the bump stock ban and the regulation of pistol braces makes me a Democrat. Learn something new on Ammoland every day.

WhiteRose
WhiteRose
2 months ago
Reply to  Don

The larger issue is whether such rules usurp or mitigate our 2nd amendment.

Stag
Stag
2 months ago
Reply to  Don

Don sure does love that infringement!

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  Stag

It’s amazing what you read on a gun board: “That’s not in the spirit of the law.” “I’m against gun control, but there should be a law saying people should store their firearms a certain way, because then irresponsible parents will store their firearms a certain way and the law won’t be used to jam-up someone the government doesn’t like.” “Yes, LEOs arrested people for frivolous reasons and they didn’t arrest people for attempted murder, arson and armed robbery, but you have to understand – they were just following orders.” “This politician ran as pro-2nd Amendment – you can’t expect… Read more »

Stag
Stag
2 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

The mental gymnastics some people use to support the state is mind boggling. Over the past four years I’ve come to realize a LOT of the people who call themselves Patriots or claim to want liberty are the biggest statists.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  Stag

Paternalistic Big Government Republicans

Stag
Stag
2 months ago

Oh, the NRA wants to pretend to support the 2A again? If they hadn’t supported almost every federal arms law since 1934 then we wouldn’t be in this position.

Ryben Flynn
Ryben Flynn
2 months ago

We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.
Abraham Lincoln
Even Snopes says it’s TRUE.

Bill
Bill
2 months ago

Go NRA!!!

grant
grant
2 months ago

Since the Biden team has already met with the ATF, and the direction of their version of gun-control has already been well-stated, this is all a moot point. I can’t give the NRA kudos for anything they say now since they supported the banning of Bump-stocks, not that those parts were anything of real consequence, it was a fad, but that that action drove the final nail in the coffin of incremental banning of various and eventually all gun parts resulting in a total inability to acquire a firearm, which is Biden’s goal. MOST of Y’all here have been hashing… Read more »

Cam
Cam
2 months ago

How can the ATF choose to not collect a tax that was passed by legislation and they are entrusted with the collection of? It appears they are free to do whatever they want.

Don
Don
2 months ago
Reply to  Cam

ATF waived the tax during the ’68 amnesty as well.

Cam
Cam
2 months ago
Reply to  Don

I’m not sure but I believe that it had to be authorized by Congress. They were also not allowed to get pictures and fingerprints which the forms. I don’t think the ATF has the authority to just do what they want and waive the tax like they are acting like they can.
I think they are off the reservation and need to rounded back in.

tetejaun
tetejaun
2 months ago

As I and Representative Matt Gaetz have stated, there is NOTHING in the Constitution or Federal Statutes that gives BATF ANY power to ban anything. To ban anything, you must change the Constitution. The reason magazine restrictions and gun ‘bans’ work, is because Americans are cowards and it is easier to kneel than to stand. Not to mention the anti-American democrats have been staffing judgeships all across America with activist ‘judges’ for 70 years. Which Americans have a Second Amendment power to negate. As usual, I see weasels blaming Trump and the NRA. Because cowards always want SOMEONE ELSE to… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  tetejaun

You throw around insults like a genuine internet tough guy. Trump was elected, partly, on his vow to be Pro 2nd Amendment. Is it really too much to ask him to tell the people that report to him to stop doing these things? The NRA requests people to donate to them on the premise that they will fight for the rights of firearm owners. They have shown time and time again that they not only fall short in getting things done, but frequently work against the rights of firearm owners. The facts have been posted many times. You don’t expect… Read more »

Donttreadonme
Donttreadonme
2 months ago
Reply to  tetejaun

I agree at large, but the NRA has failed true 2nd Amendment supporters. The NRA is corrupt and broken.

AZ Lefty
AZ Lefty
2 months ago

So basically it decodes to:

We are still finding Excuses for T-Rump to do these things; send more money

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  AZ Lefty

You are correct with that statement. However, I am grateful President Trump made advances with respect to: Taxes; Reducing unnecessary EPA regulations; Extricating the U.S. from unnecessary and costly foreign entanglements; Providing better tools to the military in the event they do need to engage in military action; Removing insane rules of engagement that unnecessarily put military personnel in danger; Ensuring military personnel are better cared for when they return from combat; Exiting climate agreements that are punitive to the U.S., Renegotiating foreign trade agreements, Brokering foreign peace agreements, Championing right to try, Refraining from imposing federal restrictions due to… Read more »

tetejaun
tetejaun
2 months ago
Reply to  AZ Lefty

Poor try, communist democrat.
By the way, why are you communist democrats so ignorant in common English grammar?
It is to laugh, rump boy.

Last edited 2 months ago by tetejaun
Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago

So, did the NRA leadership pick up the phone and called the CURRENT President of the United States to stop this? Or are you guys just wondering how much money you can make under Biden?

Yeah, I thought so! 4 years of bullshit from the NRA and President Trump on how they are going to protect our rights. You guys are just in it for the money, as usual.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago

Waiting for the responses:

  • False accusations that you are liar;
  • Lots of all caps, excessive use of exclamation marks, incorrect spelling roaring that the BATFE does not report to the executive branch; and
  • Something about Trump being too busy defeating Satan (insert church lady meme) to trifle with telling his organization not to infringe on the rights of people he pandered to (and who overwhelmingly voted for him twice)
tetejaun
tetejaun
2 months ago

You cowards always demanding OTHERS do your Citizen Duty.
Kneeling must come natural for you.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
2 months ago
Reply to  tetejaun

Do you believe the NRA has been effective with the dues/donations they have received from people who believe in the right to keep and bear arms?

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
2 months ago
Reply to  tetejaun

Chest thumpers always show bravado on the Internet and are no-where to be found when it comes to fighting for our rights! In that sense, your comment fits right in with the Trump clown show. After all, he also has a big mouth and doesn’t back it up with action!