U.S.A. –-(AmmoLand.com)-— On January 19, 2022, documents were filed with the Kenosha County Circuit Court asking Judge Bruce Schroeder to award ownership of the rifle Kyle Rittenhouse used to defend himself on August 25, 2020, during the riots in Kenosha, Wisconsin. He is also asking for the return of Kyle’s iPhone, ammunition, and clothes.
From the kenoshacountyeye.com:
Kenosha County Circuit Court Bruce Schroeder will have to decide who is the rightful owner is of a Smith and Wesson M&P 15 rifle. This is the rifle used by Kyle Rittenhouse on August 25, 2020 to kill two assailants and wound a third. Schroeder will also be asked to decide if sporting rifle will be released at all. According to court documents filed this afternoon, ADA T. Clair Binger (D) and DA Michael Graveley (D) are not releasing the AR-15 Rifle to Rittenhouse after being asked by his attorney, Mark Richards.
The testimony of both Rittenhouse and Dominick Black established the intent was for the rifle to be transferred to Kyle when he became 18. From Kenoshanews.com:
The filing states: “As established through the trial testimony of both Dominick Black and Mr. Rittenhouse, the Smith & Wesson M&P 15 rifle … was purchased by Dominick Black but was to become the legal property of Kyle Rittenhouse upon his 18th birthday,” which was Jan. 3, 2021.
According to Kenoshacountyeye.com, this isn’t the first time Kenosha County prosecutors have refused to return legally owned firearms to their owners.
Also, “This isn’t the first time T. Clair Binger refused to return a gun to someone he lost a case against. Even though Binger told a podcast host that he has a concealed carry license and caries a gun, he in universally known as being a strong gun-control supporter.”
Kyle Rittenhouse says he wants the rifle to destroy it. Judge Schroeder will get to decide if, under Wisconsin law, the rifle belongs to Kyle, because of the oral contract between Kyle and Dominick.
To this correspondent, the more important question is:
Was it a legal contract under federal firearms law?
The firearm was not substantially transferred to Kyle before the present. Everyone agrees the rifle was/is legally owned by Dominick Black. Much has happened since the event-filled day of August 25, 2020. Legally, the rifle still belongs to Dominick Black. The legal risk to Dominick Black if the rifle is transferred to Kyle Rittenhouse is probably small.
In 2014, the Supreme Court, in United States v. Abramski, ruled it does not matter if a firearm is legally transferred to another person if the firearm was purchased as a straw purchase.
At present, the rifle Kyle carried was never substantially transferred to him. If it is transferred to Kyle, Dominick Black may be at risk for a straw purchase prosecution under federal law.
It seems unlikely; Abramski was a very strained 5-4 decision by a far-left majority. But it is precedence. A lot of punishment by process could be entailed.
I talked to Attorney Anthony Cotton of Kenosha, who represented Dominick Black, to see what he thought of the risk. He said the defense was structured, from the start, with cognizance of potential federal law:
“We have been cognizant of potential federal liability from the beginning.”
About half of Cottons practice is in federal firearms law, so he is well aware of the law and the Abramski decision.
I asked if he was concerned about possible legal exposure for Dominick Black. He said he wasn’t
“No, I am not.”
“It is something that if it happens, then we will deal with it.”
Attorney Cotton said he no longer is representing Dominick Black. He said if Dominick Black wants to pursue legal recourse to have his rifle returned, then Dominick can do that with a different attorney.
“We got it dismissed, so my work is done.”
Perhaps this correspondent is concerned with a minor issue. Dominick Black was always a minor player in the case; he cooperated with the prosecution. No federal charges have been brought. The Abramski case was a rare prosecution.
In today’s climate, prosecutors seem willing to strain statutes to the limit, in order to persecute perceived political opponents.
To the advantage of Dominick Black, the Biden administration seems incompetent. Their plate is full of multiple, self-inflicted crises overseas and at home. Rampant inflation, disruption of civil society, soaring energy prices are a few domestic issues that come to mind.
Hopefully, persecution of a minor player in a trial which showed President Biden to be a clueless and cruel bigot, will not be a high priority.
The Federal statute of limitations for felonies is five years after the offense was committed. This assumes due process and the rule of law still applies.
About Dean Weingarten:
Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of Constitutional Carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.
The rifle is his property and should be returned post haste as well as the prosecutor should be disbarred and jailed for malicious prosecution.
Abramski may have been a rare occurrence, but there are still many rabid leftists convinced that Kyle is a murderer. They remain thirsty for blood and more than occasionally look at Mr. Black. If there is a crack, he is at great risk that they will exploit it.
mr black should petition for it ,weather he decides to keep sell or destroy it it is his kyle is not owner of record
There IS no “owner of record” only a “first purchaser of record”. After that all bets are off. I do not believe Wisocnsin is a Universal Background Check state. Thus, in theory and legally, Mr. Black could have given or sold it to Charlie, who then gave/sold it to Pete, then to Bob, then to Ben, and so on, all legally, and BATF will be clueless as to who has it today. There was a verbal agreement, which is legally binding, between Kule and C Dominic, thus Kyle now owns it. I believe he has now residence in Wisconcin, thus… Read more »
If it were not for double standards progressives and other brands of leftists would have no standards at all. Case in point. You have an anti-liberty public servant enjoying the right to keep and bear arms while denying the same to the very citizens who pay his salary. This form of civil asset forfeiture is so common today it has become a standard business model for many law enforcement agencies. Seize evidence, pick the cream of the crop for yourselves and then auction or use the remainder and deny citizens of their property. Then bleed those same citizens dry financially… Read more »
civil forfeiture is repugnant to constitution will be one of the matches that lights the fuse
What is repugnant to the Constitution fills VOLUMES by now.
Admit it…we don’t pay his salary voluntarily. It is paid under the threat of violence. The threat of loosing our homes, our so called property which it isn’t if you can’t have TOTAL control over it. It’s right there with the 1st plank of the COMMUNIST MANIFESTO. ABOLITION OF ALL RIGHTS TO PRIVATE PROPERTY AND THE APPLICATION OF ALL RENT TO PUBLIC PURPOSE…like a “public servants” salary.
due process is dead, look at fbi stealing stuff and other ?police? agencies act more like criminal gangs, and will have to be treated as such
Absolutely. I’d say if I was stopped and had some great amount of cash that they stole, I’d be saying in an Arnold Schwarzenegger accent…I’ll BE BACK and stick to my promise as I visited their headquarters. I’m too old to put up with that kind of crap.
Yep, due process is out, anonymity is in.
The gang-mentality-constitution-breaking police will probably send Rittenhouse a letter stating he has abandoned the rifle tailoring the State’s Abandonment Law to fit the circumstances or tailoring the circumstances to fit the State’s Abandonment Law and cowardly sign the letter “Sincerely, Commander Property” .
I’m curious what happened to the rifle’s sight while it was in the evidence locker? The videos of that night showed the rifle was mounted with a combat sight of some sort, but it was a flat top while it was being used as a prop in the courtroom. The prosecutor couldn’t really aim it very well at the jury because it lacked any sights at all – not even cheap plastic flip-ups.
Like most evidence lockers it will have been ‘copped’ by someone wanting it.
That is a huge chain of evidence objection. I suppose that it is a moot point, now. But someone should be investigating that disappearance.
They probably have that covered because like in most states, the cops are not responsible for property in impound and that is why when and if you do get it back, it is beat to hell, collector guns and all.
WB you know that won’t happen!!!!!!!!!!
I like the pun, good one.
that is why it is called copped the cops stole it criminal on prowl
I knew there had to be a more modern version of the meaning of COP. It used to be CONSTABLE ON PATROL, of which we have no more. I like CRIMINAL ON PROWL. That’s classic.
I never knew “cop” stood for anything.
In medicinal times they’d burn a wagon that ran over a person.
Destroy the ” evil thing”.
The sicialist/ communists seek to to destroy and villify guns. They don’t want and effective resistance to their ” fundamental change in America”.
The red car that RAN-DOWN and ASSASSINATED many people participating in a Parade is responsible for the deaths. BANN ALL RED CARS!!!!!!
We know who was to be transferred to Kyle as of Jan 3 2021… IF it wasn’t transferred to Kyle by Mr. Black give it back to Mr. Black, HE should have the original legally signed paperwork for it.
IF it was transferred as intended GIVE IT BACK to Kyle !
One or the other…. There is no “in between”
So let me get this straight…no one can buy a gun for a gift for a friend or relative? More non crimes being called “crimes”.
Buying a gun as an intended gift is legal or at least it used to be? I think that buying a gun for someone that can not lawfully own a gun is what is precluded. That is my understanding. I could be wrong.
You are on the mark. A ten ring shot.
Wonder what that rifle would fetch on GunBroker????
The bidding would probably break the Internet.
Government stealing from citizens?! Surely that would never happen!
I’d say the fear of death is the worse problem we have in he WORLD today. So if they can pump up the fear by trying some individuals for innocuous acts, they can keep the rest of the mob in control because they will be afraid to go to jail or to suffer a financial loss or heaven forbid actually die fighting for FREEDOM. I agree with Robert…the Puppet Masters can kiss my lily white rear.
If Black was the original buyer and he loaned the rifle to Kyle, then the rifle needs to go back to Black, he was the legal owner.
If Kyle is going to buy the rifle from Black then they both must be residents of the same state to keep the purchase legal between them.
The media will be all over this story slamming their anti gun position and screaming for Kyles head.
second returning it to black. at that point his choice as to what to do
OOPPPSSSS!!! What a terrible thought that someone in the next state from you were to sell you a rifle! OMG!! 10 years $250,000 FINE. More violations of the EIGHT AMENDMENT, TENTH AMENDMENT, SECOND AMENDMENT, FIFTH AMENDMENT, FOURTH AMENDMENT…we don’t need no stinkin’ Constitution. We are your masters so bow down and kiss our asses.
The same state rule applies to handguns only. Remember Kyle paid for the gun and Black did the paperwork.
This smells like the atfe and that lawyer for the wrong side, the evil side is up to his usual stunts. The rifle should have been returned the day the trial was completed. If they won’t allow Rittenhouse to have his rifle, if they won’t let Black get his rifle, not technically his anymore, then what the lawyers are doing is and have been doing is criminal ever since the day that Rittenhouse was proven innocent in court. Those lawyers and anyone else who is in cahoots with them should be fired and disbarred, arrested and brought up to trial.… Read more »
I’d like to see GOA step in here. They have deep enough pockets to make Binger and Graveley’s life total hell. Faced with that they might capitulate.
Binger needs to meet with Lucille as well as Graveley on a lonely country road while they were looking for a shortcut.
Mr. Rittenhouse was found NOT GUILTY on all charges. This means if the Prosecutor/State refuses to RETURN legally owned PROPERTY, the prosecutor/State HAS possession of STOLEN PROPERTY. Arrest them all and charge them with THIEFT!!!!!!
Legally Dominick Black owns the gun because it is registered to him. Dominck needs to petition the court for the gun and then if denied, sue the city for denial of his right to have his property back and legally transfer the rifle to Kyle if their state has requirements to have a background check for personal transfer between friends. Dominick did nothing illegal because it was in his name and he loaned it to Kyle with the full intent of it being returned when he was finished using it. The only problem I foresee is that Dominick was not… Read more »
Ya, the guy on record at the gun store where the gun was purchased. There was no mention that it was an 80.
That only is true of the first purchaser on the day he purchased it. It could get stolen the ext day, lost in a boating accident, gifted to a son or brother who is not a “prohibited person”, all legal, and thus the guy who dropped the plonk on the table at the gin store is no longer the OWNER of that fireram. Registration is what happens to our cars. They can look up MY NAME and find every car registerd to me, then can also fund the hulk of one I scrapped, that i was silly enough to have… Read more »
If there were no registration, they would not be able to track a gun that was stolen and never reported back to the original purchaser 7 years later. I thought all the records were supposed to be purged after 5 years but I read somewhere that it was 10. I’m not sure but I have seen my statement happen multiple times.
Obviously. If you fill out a 4473 the weapon is REGISTERED to you. Even though they may claim it is not, it is. The first person in the list of end users is who it is REGISTERED to. Private sales started with the first purchaser being REGISTERED.
IN most states, Wisconsin included, firearms are not “registered” despite the FACT that this is exactly what the antigun Feds want. So they can look up anyone’s name and see the roster of guns they own and where they are stored, all the better to come and take them . Or they can look up the S/N of any firearm and know who ownes and thus is legally/criminally responsible for anything done with thatgun. THIS is the ultimate goal of ALL “gun safety laws”. WE won’t be safe, THEY will be. This is what New York and California have tried… Read more »
Here in OreGONE I feel like we are ahead of you all and setting the example of what they are going to try and do across Meria. Our gun laws are becoming insane and have gone over the edge. My federal form is supposed to stay with my dealer that sold it to me only but I know better with the stories I have read. Next they are going to take that new system they are testing to get your may I card for suppressor’s etc. and make it part of the new registration system, that’s what obiden is going… Read more »
There are millions of firearms not on the LIST. lol
“Rittenhouse says he wants the rifle to destroy it.”
Prosecution: “don’t worry, we’ll do that.” Who didn’t see THAT coming? Dumb move.
Yeah what a bonehead move on his part. Hell if anything raffle it off. That black beauty is Legend. lol