Anti-Gunners Should be Careful What They Wish For

So what did these guys think about armed felons and armed children? What? They didn’t? (Scene at the Signing of the Constitution of the United States/Howard Chandler Christy/Public domain)

U.S.A. – -( “Matthew Schindler, the defense attorney for Kneko Tyray Moore, a convicted felon, states that the definition of ‘the people’ in the Second Amendment is not limited to law-abiding responsible citizens,” a Thursday letter to the editor in The Oregonian summarizes. “Schindler’s theory is that the government can’t demonstrate that the criminal charge is not consistent with the nation’s historical tradition of firearm regulations.”

Not so fast, say legal critics.

“The Supreme Court ‘characterized the holders of Second Amendment rights as “law-abiding” citizens no fewer than fourteen times,” Portland federal prosecutor Leah Bolstad argued back, claiming that “notably excludes convicted felons,” and citing Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s admissions in the Bruen decision that the ruling “doesn’t disturb ‘the longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons.’”

What’s absent from that argument are Founding-era citations to back it up and connect “longstanding” to the founding era. That’s because they didn’t.

From Justice Breyer’s dissent (arguably the one thing he got right):

“‘[P]rohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill [and] laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms’ have their origins in the 20th century… ‘Founding-era legislatures did not strip felons of the right to bear arms simply because of their status as felons.’”

It’s not a stretch to surmise they did not have a major recidivism problem with murderers because they were hanged, and lesser felons received long and hard punishments. That, and an armed populace raised in a militia culture that would not tolerate, let alone breed predators and dependents meant the social cancer of collectivist prosecutors turning known threats loose to continue victimizing the productive citizenry just wasn’t the issue modern-day collectivists have turned it into.

And like the maxim (OK, mine) says, anyone who can’t be trusted with a gun can’t be trusted without a custodian.

Oblivious to all this, the letter writer continues:

“Given this logic – that there is no limitation on the types of people that can possess guns – then why are there state and federal laws prohibiting various types of gun ownership for those people who are 21 years or younger?” he asks. “Are folks in this category not considered people? Why shouldn’t children have the right to possess guns and any type of gun they want? Did the nation’s historical tradition of gun regulation even consider the age of when people could legally possess guns?”

Some of us are old enough to remember having guns as minors and the grown-ups being OK with that. And there’s no shortage of stories about boys taking their guns to school with them so they could bag a rabbit on the way home. I even wrote about a friend who took his rifle on the Santa Monica bus when he was a boy. But we’re talking Founding era here, and for that, we can recall Continental Congress Delegate Tench Coxe’s February 20, 1788, Pennsylvania Gazette article where he advocated:

“The power of the sword, [opponents] say … is in the hands of Congress. My friends and countrymen, it is not so, for THE POWERS OF THE SWORD ARE IN THE HANDS OF THE YEOMANRY OF AMERICA FROM SIXTEEN TO SIXTY … Who are the militia? are they not ourselves[?].”

As encouraging as that is, it still doesn’t tell us what the law at the time was. For that, we can turn to what I would have previously considered an unlikely source, Fordham University Professor Saul Cornell. Due to his advocacy for taxing guns kept at home and arguing the best way to legally respect the memory of a black militia captain lynched by the Klan would be to keep Otis McDonald unarmed, I’ve taken to referring to him as the Slippin’ Jimmy of the revisionist history movement.

So what does Cornell tell us about “‘Infants’ and Arms Bearing in the Era of the Second Amendment”?

“Simply put, minors in the Founding Era had no legal standing to assert a claim in court to vindicate their rights, including Second Amendment-type claims,” Cornell writes.

Well, doesn’t that leave whatever I say next dead in the water? Not really, because, like Breyer in Bruen, Cornell manages to root out an acorn.

“Given the status of minors in American law at the time of the Second Amendment’s enactment, there is no credible legal argument that an infant might have made regarding a Second Amendment right to purchase or use a gun without the permission of a legal guardian.”

Ah! The understanding at the time was that parents would have a say in what their dependent children could or could not do! So, according to this, there were no Founding-era laws saying a boy or girl couldn’t have a gun if the adults raising them wanted them to.

“Progressives” may wish they hadn’t opened this door. If we’re going to go back to a historical understanding of parental rights, so much for bills aimed at giving the state the final word on puberty blockers, hormones, and surgery without parental consent. So much for school boards siccing the feds on parents protesting subversive agendas.

Here’s a historical understanding for them that addresses both points of the hyperbolic letter writer’s concerns: Remove violent criminals from society. And leave our guns and our children alone. Just like the Founders intended.

About David Codrea:

David Codrea is the winner of multiple journalist awards for investigating/defending the RKBA and a long-time gun owner rights advocate who defiantly challenges the folly of citizen disarmament. He blogs at “The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance,” is a regularly featured contributor to Firearms News, and posts on Twitter: @dcodrea and Facebook.

David Codrea

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This may sound shocking to some, but it’s the only rational way to view any human right.
EVERYONE has a right to weapons for defense against aggression. Those under the care of legal custodians (minors, prisoners, mental patients) have those rights HELD IN TRUST for them by their custodians, who have the authority to decide under what conditions, if any, the ward may exercise them. That’s the entire point of guardianship, after all. Seriously, this is basic.

Last edited 27 days ago by Larry

U.S. appeals court blocks ban on rapid-fire ‘bump stocks’ – POLITICO

Last edited 27 days ago by Darkman

Dark, that article by Politico states a fact that has not been proven. The bumpstock mounted weapons that were found in the Mandalay room from which the now dead and long forgotten ‘perp’, have never even been proven to be fired. If you ask me, that whole charade by the ATF and the FBI was a complete farce designed to help the take away of our Bill of Rights. Could be the CIA was involved too. What about the black helicopters, statements from eyewitnesses and forensic experts regarding the sounds of gunfire, etc. Just one more example of the deep… Read more »

Last edited 26 days ago by Oldman

The Kennedy assassination information release, if it held all he evidence would show show the killing was orchestrated by a mix of the CIA, FBI, Mafia and Lyndon B. Johnson! So we will NEVER learn the real truth! BTW, I can’t believe the Navy named a ship after phony “Landslide Lyndon”!


Bill, I have always believed LBJ was the driving force behind the JFK assassination. I always will too.


dont you have magic bullets???

Knute Knute

Always is a big word, Ope. What if evidence comes to light showing that someone was above LBJ, pulling his strings? In case of replies, I’ll hereafter call this “someone”, JBJ’s puppetmaster(s). 🙂




Anyone using a bit of reason, logic and common sense would come to the same conclusion you just addressed. There is only one reason they make innocuous acts “felonies” because it is a back door gun control scheme. A neighbor two house down from me is a convicted felon. His felony? Driving and getting caught drunk 3 times. Why 3? Why not 1 or 2? It’s arbitrary horse shit. And his adult son who still lives in the same house and his wife can’t have one either due to his “heinous” act of driving drunk and getting caught 3 times.… Read more »


If the drunk driving laws were effecive at all, no one would ever get convcted of a subsequent offense. Take away driving priviledges for six months at least. Second offense maybe take away ALL freedoms for six months, yes I mean behind bars. That would wrech most people’s source of income. but that sidesteps a relted issue: how drunk is drunk? The pseudo-scientific “BAC Limit” of point zero eight percent is not accurate nor universal. So many become felons who should not be. Blind Mother Justice on a pile of manure……. BUT the biblical standard is this: whoever by his… Read more »


Take China for instance; get caught trafficking drugs and you get executed.
China does not have a drug problem. They have won their “ war on drugs” by killing the enemy as is most wars that are won.


The rights and freedoms that we seek are hamstrung by Prior Restraint laws. What someone might do. All a load of crap. This concept is faulty because if applied widely we could have no professionals trades. No one could be a doctor because they might engage in malpractice,no one can be a CPA because they might cheat the IRS , no one could be law enforcement because they might violate someone’s civil rights, and so on. But it is not limited to professionals, no one can babysit because they might harm the children. When prior restraint is applied widely to… Read more »


no one could could be law enforcement they might abuse their power


“Remove violent criminals from society. And leave our guns and our children alone. Just like the Founders intended.”

A simple and the proper objective unless you are a current liberal/progressive/socialist. That particular subsection of society are ALL mentally ill. If they are not born with it, cognitive dissonance finds its way into their consciousness either by bad parenting or public schools.


I am sure you have read what I have written about my great niece that is going to be a teacher next year in orgoneistan and what she doesn’t know.

Washington crossed the Delaware to kill the Indians and Pearl Harbor is somewhere in Europe. It’s the schools destroying our children. She and her mother are so ignorant. They had CRT but they didn’t realized it because the name of the course was disguised in normal demonrattt fashion under the word EQUITY.


I wonder if this has anything to do with it… But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education SUCKS, and it’s the same reason it will never, ever, EVER be fixed. It’s never going to get any better, don’t look for it, be happy with what you’ve got. Because the owners, the owners of this country don’t want that. I’m talking about the real owners now, the BIG owners! The Wealthy… the REAL owners! The big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. They are… Read more »

10th Plank.png

And, it’s the same Big Club they use to beat on you with!
“Get in that Cell, Slave!


or:….. get in the railcar. NOW

Knute Knute

They beat on you with the big club to force you into the railcar… to be followed by what? By giant furnaces and mass graves… that’s what! The same as in WW2. History might not be repeating itself exactly… but it sure does rhyme!
Paraphrased from Sam Clemens, AKA Mark Twain.


God help the children she is teaching.

Knute Knute

God help OreGONEistan! God help the US. Wait.
God help those that love liberty, and god DAMN the rest forever!
There. That’s better… 🙂


The West coast is one big mess from CA to OR to WA!
All one big mess!


Since China owns the lion’s share of the National Debt, why not just pay it off by selling them Commiefornia, Washedup and Alreadygon. I’m sure the Chicoms would be welcomed there with open arms – without guns.


Not everywhere


ANY “crime” should involve a victim! The founders may have considered a con artist plying his trade to be a heinous criminal. I say, if there is a VICTIM, deal out the punishment accordingly. They steal a TV, make them pay the owner of the TV either in financial compensation or as a indentured servant the value of the TV x 2. If they can’t recover the TV, make that x 3. Sound familiar? Think that will deter those types of low lifes? Another thing people need to realize is that a THIEF is not only stealing your property, he… Read more »


It actually is.
People were shot trying to steal cattle or steal items.
It was states and congress that imposed incarceration.


the biblical standard is this: if you steal or deliberatly destroy someting, had a change of heart (repented) and went to your victim to settle up you were to repay twice the damage you caused. If you did not wilingly go set things right and were found out, yu had to restore FOUR TIMES the damage you caused. Even if yu had to become his slave until paid off.
Not much thieving and wanton destruction occurred in Israel in those days.


either by bad parenting or public schools. allowing your offpsring to darken th doorways of any government school in a daily basis IS bad parenting by definition. The biblical standard is “FATHERS teach your children”. Yes, Dad cah find help from many other places, but the whole “project” remains HIS. He cannot shuck the responsibility for both the doing of it and the outcome of it. Letting gvernment perverts teach your children is selling them off to Moloch. The proggies infesting the “education” system in the US have taken to themselves a levelf authority never meant to be thirs. THEY… Read more »


Not for nothing, back in the mid to late 1970s I was on the high school small bore shooting team. Several times each week I walked from home with my target rifle in a locked case to the school bus stop. I rode the school bus to high school and brought my rifle, target ammo and other gear into the school to be locked up in the safe in the coach’s classroom. Later that day, with the team, we would ride in a school bus with all of our gear to either our home range for practice or to one… Read more »

Last edited 26 days ago by CaptainR

Wow, late 1970’s. I graduated in 76 and in kommiefornia you would go to jail for having a gun on school property, get kicked out for having a knife or a cake cutter with the ends sharpened into points that the blacks used to hide in their hair. My answer to all that was a belt made from Chevy timing chains. No one ever caught it.


Same in Miami Florida in 1972. NO weapons allowed. And if someone attacked you and you defended yourself BOTH got suspended.


“The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, and not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree; and all this for the important end to be attained: the rearing up and qualifying a well-regulated militia, so vitally necessary to the security of a free State. Our opinion is that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right.”


The militia couldn’t even exist without the people having the right to keep and bear arms. What pisses me off is that they have nullified the first 13 words and they really are NECESSARY for the SECURITY of a FREE state of existence. Otherwise it’s one guy against hundreds of their agents if you resist any of their “laws”. About those 13 words…

Last edited 26 days ago by CourageousLion

One issue everyone seems to overlook is exactly what a felon is now, compared to the 1800’s. How many misdemeanors and other crimes from then are now felonies?

So how many “felons” are we creating and violating their rights?

Felon used to mean something much different than what it seems to be now. And once someone is caught in our “justice system” it is designed to never escape it.


It’s a money making system. In the Soviet of Washington most all gross misdemeanors and felonies can be expunged from your record and you can have your gun rights restored at the same time.

It’s all insane, if you try and understand the logic, then you must be a lib/prog with cognitive dissonance because laws like this makes no sense whatsoever.


The late Common Law professor George Gordon called it the “Law Enforcement Growth Industry”.


Exactly. Felonies were HEINOUS crimes. Not something like not filling out a paper they way they want you too.


Wow, reading this really brings to light the changes that America has gone though in the past few years. I never realized the depth of it all. I remember when I was in school getting spanked once in a while and when this new no corporal punishment came into effect I thought we are going to be over ran by spoiled children and I am right. My parents let me have a 22lr when I was 12. I would carry it in the mountains to go practice shooting aluminum cans and the only thing that ever happened was that others… Read more »

Dubi Loo

Thanks to Dr Spock, who was simply following the “science.”


When I received corporal punishment in school, they didn’t have to even notify my parents. And guess what?….it worked….I was a hard case and it took three times, unlike most of my peers where one was enough. The same thing would happen if they went back to public hanging. That dude who did the murders in Idaho being put to death by a public, televised hanging would do a world of good for our nation. But NO! An eye for an eye just doesn’t meet Proper standards for a populace that has cast God away from ‘religion’.


Amen, we are on the same page and it should be televised on all channels. They didn’t tell our parents either.


Awaiting approval
They didn’t tell our folks either.

Amen, we are on the same page and it should be televised on all channels.


Awaiting approval. Must be the Amen.


Oops. must be the message.


It is my strong opinion that the firing squad needs to be restored, especiallly for deaths perpetrated by the use of firerarms. Hands bound, no hood, face the executioners, ten rounds each, fire on command until cease fire given. Let the perp ponder what he is about to receive in light of what he dished out to his dead victims. And then to and stand in judgement before his Maker to settle the final score.

Knute Knute

So, in this new execution system that you advocate, how will you deal with the well-known issue of some, or ALL, of the firing squad missing on purpose? Just do the whole execution, over and over again?
How many failed repetitions will be allowed before either jailing the firing squad, or using them to replace the accused? Is it 3 strikes and you’re out, or is it 50? I need an actual number, not a non-commital answer like: “it depends”, or complete silence.


KK: If you care sir, my answer to that is if you miss intentionally you are sent home and Thanked for your service and having a heart.Not punished for being human. Not everybody will be willing to serve as executioner. To miss intentionally is not a sign of weakness. Although why you signed up with reservations you might no be able to fullfill your contract is beyond me. To me this is nothing more than JUSTICE. Cut and Dried. You do the crime you pay the price with your life. People (criminals) will know of the change in punishment. Media… Read more »

Knute Knute

You did, and I appreciate the effort and thought you put into your reply. I question what difference it makes how heinous the crime might be that the accused is accused of. If the point is to be exactly as crazy as the accused appears to be, I’d have to say that that sounds like a race to the bottom of the barrel. Surely the honest citizens of this land can come up with a better solution than to just duplicate the heinous crimes of the worst breed of criminals, yes? The other problem I see is this one: “if… Read more »


I disagree. The idea of capital punishment is not to induce the same amount of pain to the perp. The idea is to eliminate the fungus among us. Hanging is immediate, if done properly..and done in a true public sense, so that may give a glimpse to anyone who is thinking about what it looks like to hang, may turn from any thoughts of perpetrating violence on others. God’s ultimate judgement is all that is needed for the poor soul that commits premeditated murder, …etc., by whatever means.

Knute Knute

Agreed, Oldman. And not only for those reasons, but also because a firing squad leaves the entire group unsure as to which man actually fired the fatal shot, with no way to expunge the guilt, since they do not know which individual did the dirty deed.
These are some of the unforeseen consequences that pile up whenever actions are taken with little thought to what could(and most often does… 🙂 ) go wrong.
Like a year later, discovering that an innocent man was executed by mistake. “Oops” doesn’t quite cut that thick a mustard.

Last edited 25 days ago by Knute Knute

Oldman, my biggest problem with capital punishment is the prison overcrowding problem there is on Death Row. These inmates were legally tried,convicted and sentenced to die for their crimes. After their appellate process has been exhausted execute them.


Direct from the court room to the gallows pole.


Music, and that’s exactly the way it should be. That years of endless and bullshit appeals needs to stop too.

Last edited 25 days ago by Ope

Let’s take Moscow Idaho for example. We have a sheath, it has your DNA on it. We need no other proof unless you can prove or someone in the house that survived will stand up and say it wasn’t you. The head juror stands up. We pass on all the BS things they find him guilty of, We pass on that he is found guilty of murder for each and every individual and say we find him guilty for one murder. Slam goes the gavel and then he goes to the gallows and we place bets on how long he… Read more »


I would suggest that there be a three judge panel that makes a decision based on the merits of the case and decides if and how many appeals should be aĺowed. In the Idaho case, I doubt there will be need of that. Pretty sure he’s toast.


Oldman, And that smirking basterd should be Toast! I agree. DNA is pretty much foolproof. He should HANG. As any murderer should. GOD said: An eye for an eye. that’s good enough for me folks. We don’t want to torture the murderer. We just want justice. If hanging is the LAW of the Land fine. judged by 12, 6, panel of 3 whatever. As long as it’s accurate, DNA, blood samples, video,cell phone, whatever. You will be toasted. We are NOT Nazi’s, We don’t kill for the thrill,I got no enjoyment going to war. I fought for my and my… Read more »

Knute Knute

IMO, the gallows is a whole bunch better than a firing squad. For one thing, only one executioner is needed, instead of several. That’s a big deal all by itself, esp. in view of the fact that hangmen in the past tended to choose that profession for themselves, whereas most firing squads were just low ranking grunts following rather distasteful orders. Hangmen could be thought of as pretty low, morally speaking, but at least they chose it, rather than having it thrust upon them. The second reason is also a big issue. Firing squads tend to being hastily assembled from… Read more »


Look Knute Knute, I AGREE WITH YOU 100% Hanging is just fine with me. Do away w/ firing squards, I agree, have no problems w/ that either. And I agree with most of the people on this site as well as TTAG. But, We have to do something IMMEDIATE after sentencing. gallows fine Firing Squad or whatever the populas agrees with! as long as the skells KNOW they will answer for their crimes asap No drawn out appeals, lawyers with stays of execution etc. You can come up with a better more humane way of disposing of the garbage fine,There’s… Read more »

Knute Knute

No letting you have it. We agree. I think we can do better than even the gallows. The only real advantage that has is as a symbol, because a gallows is a well-known thing worldwide. What about this: Upon conviction of a heinous crime, a death sentence is carried out by locking the heinous criminal underground, perhaps walled up behind concrete? One could leave them with a few months supply of the most basic food and water. Such would cost the State very little, and he would survive for at least a few months (albeit in the dark and horrible… Read more »


chop chop…good enough for french king and queen


Ope, I am with you on that one, for sure.


I think that is a reasonable form of ‘punishment’Tionico.The old ‘Eye for an eye’ You kill an innocent ,you die. Plain and simple. No years of appeals by some damn lawyer acting on behalf of self to get their name in the papers. Justice is served is gone now. Release the skell now in many blue states so he can re-offend almost before the ink is dry on his release papers. What kind of deterant is that? THESE ANIMALS ARE FREE TO ROAM UNMOLESTED BY THE POLL’S and PO-PO’s hands are tied!. I think the firing squard would send a… Read more »


I will gladly go down this rabbit hole! sure and permanent punishment for violent felons and everybody else left alone in the security of their possessions, homes and arms! Parents in charge of all decisions concerning their minor children, including what school they attend, and the freedom of Religion without the banning of religion in the public square!


I believe its time for politicians to fill out a form similar to the 4473 to take office . This would help eliminate the criminal element from our government . Ya right they would just lie like they always do .


Why should they have to fill out a 4473 when they take AR15”s into the chambers and not get arrested or fined and their children can lie on app forms to buy a gun when there is documented and video proof of drug use with prostitutes and nothing happens. 4473’s are for the pleebs and surfs only. Sarcasm. Your right, they lie and then slap your face and say I am a politician when running for office, what did you expect? just like Obiden did. Oregoneistan. Oh, fishing license only in Orgoneistan was 90 bucks. Fishing and hunting license in… Read more »


Remove violent criminals from society….”
It’s not Gun Violence.
It’s Defective Citizen Violence.


Here here!!
Well done!


“It’s not a stretch to surmise they did not have a major recidivism problem with murderers because they were hanged, and lesser felons received long and hard punishments.” Fact is that FELONIES during the founding era were considered HEINOUS acts. Today a felony can be for having too much weed on you or selling a car to someone as a dealer and say it was sold for less than it was to let the customer beat sales tax or having a rifle or shotgun with too short of a barrel. (Whatever that is) Actually the list is ENDLESS as to… Read more »


in my county I can legally shoot stray dogs harrassing my geese, soot coyotes and coons hassling my chickens, but if I shoot any cat (even feral nuisance cats) I hve committed a felony. And thus have my right to my wn self-protection terminated.


Boy, would I have been in trouble. I lived in a place where this one woman was a cat lady. She had over 50 of them. They would fight between the duplex I lived in and the one next door at all hours of the night. It would wake up my wife and infant son…21 dead cats later…


Individuals who cannot be trust with the “tools of self-defense” should not be allowed to roam freely; and there are plenty of laws (most are consistent with “due process”) to insure the incapable are not free; but of course then there is the matter of illegal aliens – that can be dealt with also without infringing on the G-d given rights of the law abiding. In the recent case of NYSRPA v Bruen J. Thomas’ majority opinion should have simply stated: “‘shall not infringe’ means shall not infringe, neither the states nor the federal government has regulatory authority over citizens… Read more »


I am 67years old and I remember taking real pistols to 1st grade for “show and tell” The teacher and the principle did not get bent out of shape. My parents wanted us to know how to handle guns. In my era of growing up, we also kept a rifle on a rack behind the rear window of our truck even at school.


What is stopping them from voluntarily giving up their guns and see how that works out for them? The same goes for WEF 2030 “own nothing and be happy” WEF; go ahead Klaus, Billy, Crenshaw, Trudeau. Or say, pay more voluntary taxes? Go for it, just leave me the F alone.

Patriot Solutions

No historical precedent exists banning arms from those simply labeled as felons and no such thing as a constitutional republic exists today where ones capturers are a protected class that We the People are not allowed to critisize. Felons are included in We the People simply because they are specifically not excluded from having pre-existing human rights. There is also no historical precedent for asking the governments permission and it is a rediculous concept to ask permission from ones employees. Americans have put up with way too much of this bull shit.

Last edited 27 days ago by Patriot Solutions
China Berry

Everybody has a right to self defense.

In most every pickup load of teenage hunters, there is -that guy- who does stupid things.

Somewhere in between all or nothing is the answer.


You could also say. In every pickup load of teenagers there is -that guy- who does stupid things. And no need for hunters. lol

Knute Knute

And if they aren’t stupid, they’re full of shit! 🙂 And sometimes… they’re just f&*^*n NUTS!