RSS feedHouse Crime Subcommittee Holds Hearing on National Right-to-Carry Bill
House Crime Subcommittee Holds Hearing on National Right-to-Carry Bill
National Rifle Association
FAIRFAX, Va. --(Ammoland.com)- On Tuesday, Sept. 13, the U.S. House Judiciary Committee’s Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security held a hearing on H.R. 822, the National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011.
The bill, introduced earlier this year by Congressmen Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) and Heath Shuler (D-N.C.) and cosponsored by more than 240 of their colleagues, would enable millions of permit holders to exercise their right to self-defense while traveling outside their home states.
Subcommittee Chairman Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) opened the hearing by saying the legislation is needed because state laws on right to carry reciprocity are “confusing, vary widely and can subject otherwise law-abiding citizens to frivolous prosecution.” He also argued that permit holders’ fundamental Second Amendment rights were at stake, noting that “this legislation recognizes that the right to bear arms does not stop at the state line.”
Testifying in support of the bill were Prof. Joyce Lee Malcolm of the George Mason University School of Law and Prof. David Kopel of the University of Denver Sturm College of Law.
Prof. Malcolm, an expert on the rise and fall of the right to keep and bear arms in Great Britain, noted that while America has seen crime fall as “shall issue” permit laws became the norm, Britain has systematically wiped out gun ownership for self-defense since 1920 – culminating in the 1997 handgun ban – with opposite results. As Prof. Malcolm noted in her written testimony, “English men and women have suffered from a doubling of gun crime in the last decade while in London alone gun crime doubled in 2010 over the previous year.”
Prof. Malcolm responded strongly when challenged by Rep. Bobby Scott (D-Va.) about crime and gun ownership, testifying that “more firearms has not increased violent crime. We’ve had more firearms over the last few years, millions more, and crime, violent crime has been going down.”
Prof. Kopel’s testimony focused on the constitutional aspects of the bill. While many anti-gun lawmakers who’ve long pushed national gun bans, national bans on private gun sales, national waiting periods and other federal restrictions have suddenly become born-again advocates of “states’ rights” to oppose this bill, Prof. Kopel pointed out that several provisions of the Constitution give Congress the authority to enact interstate carry.
First, Article IV protects the “Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States,” which the Supreme Court has interpreted to include a right to travel freely throughout the country. As the court said in the 1989 case of Saenz v. Roe, that includes the “right to be treated as a welcome visitor rather than an unfriendly alien when temporarily present in the second State.”
Next, section 5 of the 14th Amendment gives Congress the power to enforce the provisions of that amendment. Not only does the history of the amendment show that it was also intended to protect a right to travel, but the Supreme Court held last year in McDonald v. City of Chicago that the 14th Amendment also protects the right to keep and bear arms against state infringement. “Bear” clearly means “carry,” though several courts are currently considering how far that right goes.
Finally, Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce — which includes the power to remove state barriers to free interstate travel. (This was the basis for the civil rights laws of the 1960s that ended racial discrimination by places of public accommodation such as motels.) H.R. 822 also applies only to guns that have been shipped or transported in interstate commerce, which has been the basis for most federal gun control laws since the 1960s; here, however, the power would be used to advance gun owners’ rights rather than to restrict them.
Opposing the bill was Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey, who previously was the police chief in Washington, D.C. While Ramsey admitted that permit holders aren’t the problem, he also made clear that he strongly opposes the right to carry firearms, even for retired police officers.
Ramsey repeatedly claimed the bill didn’t include enough restrictions on permit holders — but when pressed, admitted that there was no level of regulation that would make the bill acceptable to him.
“Personally, I don’t like it . . .” was his response when asked if he supported right to carry laws.
Commissioner Ramsey’s responses demonstrated that his opposition to the bill was based on a basic opposition to civilian firearms — unsurprising for a man who spent the majority of his law enforcement career in Chicago and Washington D.C., where guns were banned. Ramsey repeated many of the exaggerated claims made by opponents of right to carry for the past quarter century, even as he admitted that permit holders are “not the problem.” He made clear that he fundamentally doubts law-abiding Americans’ ability to defend themselves in a legal and appropriate manner.
One congressional questioner seemed to have no understanding of the provisions of the bill, or the issues being discussed. To open his questioning, Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) stated “this is the most insane bill” he had ever seen. But in a demonstration of his fundamental lack of understanding of the bill, Rep. Conyers asked the three witnesses “How many know that almost 300 African-American youth between the age of 15 and 24 are injured or killed by gunfire each week?”
When Prof. Malcolm attempted to explain that the statistic, regardless of its accuracy, had no bearing on the issue of right to carry reciprocity, Rep. Conyers cut her off, demanding a “yes” or “no.” When allowed to continue, Prof. Malcolm explained that the majority of the people involved in violence have criminal records or are part of gangs, a fact Rep. Conyers similarly brushed aside.
Rep. Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) has long championed this important legislation and is joined by Rep. Heath Shuler (D-N.C.) as the primary sponsors of H.R. 822. This hearing was an important step forward for this legislation that now has more than enough support for passage. Please contact your member of Congress and urge him or her to support the earliest possible consideration of H.R. 822 this year.
H.R. 822: Responding to the Naysayers
Unfortunately, but not unexpectedly, H.R. 822 is now being attacked by a few self-proclaimed “gun rights” supporters with no active lobbying presence in any legislature, whose real agendas have little to do with promoting the interests of gun owners.
Here are the facts about a few of their claims:
Myth: H.R. 822 would involve the federal bureaucracy in setting standards for carry permits, resulting in “need” requirements, higher fees, waiting periods, national gun owner registration, or worse.
Fact: H.R. 822 doesn’t require — or even authorize — any such action by any federal agency. In fact, since it would amend the Gun Control Act, it would fall under a limitation within that law that authorizes “only such rules and regulations as are necessary to carry out” the GCA’s provisions. No federal rules or regulations would be needed to implement H.R. 822, which simply overrides certain state laws.
Myth: H.R. 822 would destroy permitless carry systems such as those in Arizona, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming.
Fact: H.R. 822 would have absolutely no effect on how the permitless carry states’ laws work within those states. For residents of Arizona, Alaska and Wyoming, where permits are not required but remain available under state law, H.R. 822 would make those permits valid in all states that issue permits to their own residents. Residents of Vermont, where no permits are issued or required, could obtain nonresident permits from other states to enjoy the benefits of H.R. 822.
Myth: If H.R. 822 moved through the legislative process, it would be subject to anti-gun amendments.
Truth: By this logic, neither the NRA nor any other pro-gun group should ever promote any pro-gun reform legislation. But inaction isn’t an option for those of us who want to make positive changes for gun owners. Instead, we know that by careful vote counting and use of legislative procedure, anti-gun amendments can be avoided or defeated.
About:
Established in 1871, the National Rifle Association is America’s oldest civil rights and sportsmen’s group. Four million members strong, NRA continues its mission to uphold Second Amendment rights and to advocate enforcement of existing laws against violent offenders to reduce crime. The Association remains the nation’s leader in firearm education and training for law-abiding gun owners, law enforcement and the military. Visit: www.nra.org
Dan Roberts is a grassroots supporter of gun rights that has choosen AmmoLand Shooting Sports News as the perfect outlet for his insiteful articles on Guns and Gun Owner Rights.
AWR Hawkins writes for all the BIG sites, for Pajamas Media, for RedCounty.com, for Townhall.com and now AmmoLand Shooting Sports News.
Named the Gun Dean by Human Events, "the senior rights activist in Washington" by Shotgun News, a "champion of the right to self-defense" by The Washington Times, and "dean of gun lobbyists" by The Washington Post and The New York Times, John M. Snyder has spent 45 years as a proponent of the individual Second Amendment civil right to keep and bear arms.
Evan Nappen is an active criminal defense attorney who has focused on firearms and weapons law for over 23 years.
Alan Korwin is the owner of Scottsdale, Arizona based Bloomfield Press. Founded in 1988, is the largest publisher and distributor of gun-law books in the country. His website, www.gunlaws.com, features a free national directory to gun laws and relevant contacts in all states and federally, along with a unique line of related books and DVDs.
Jeff Knox is a second-generation political activist and director of The Firearms Coalition. His writing can regularly be seen in Shotgun News and Front Sight magazines as well as here on AmmoLand Shooting Sports News.
Tom McHale describes himself as a conservative gun-totin’ bible-clingin’ literary assault dude who enjoys finding humor in just about anything.
Philip Van Cleave is president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, (VCDL). The Virginia Citizens Defense League is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians.
Dudley Brown, Executive Director of the National Association of Gun rights and Colorado's Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, says he is never surprised to hear that President Obama is trying to unilaterally enact gun control regulations.
Kenn Blanchard is a contributer to AmmoLand Shooting Sports News and Producer of the Urban Shooter pod cast.
Anthony P. Mauro, Sr, (also known as “Ant” to friends and associates) is Chairman and co-founder of the New Jersey Outdoor Alliance, New Jersey Outdoor Alliance Conservation Foundation, and New Jersey Outdoor Alliance Environmental Projects. 
Shari Spivack is a mother and firearms instructor who has a passion for shooting, teaching and continuing to educate myself with all types of firearms in a safe and responsible manner.
Mr. Markel has a diverse background both teaching and doing. Paul served in the U.S. Marine Corps and saw combat as member of the 1st Battalion, 6th Marines.
Alan Gottlieb is chairman of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arm and founder of the Second Amendment Foundation. 
Since 1985 Gary Marbut has been heavily involved in the formulation of public policy concerning civilian ownership and use of firearms in Montana.
AmmoLand contributor, Paul Driessen, is a senior fellow with the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow and Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise, nonprofit public policy institutes that focus on energy, the environment, economic development and international affairs.
Best known these days as a commentator on issues ranging from environmentalism to energy, immigration to Islam, Alan Caruba is the author of two recent books, "Right Answers: Separating Fact from Fantasy" and "Warning Signs", both collections of his commentaries since 2000 and both published by Merril Press of Bellevue, Washington.
Frank Brownell, CEO of Brownells, the Montezuma-based company is nation's largest gunsmithing and firearms accessory businesses.
Action hero and Second Amendment activist, Chuck Norris is one of the most enduringly popular actors in the world.
Chris W. Cox is the Executive Director of The National Rifle Association’s Institute for Legislative Action and serves as the organization’s chief lobbyist.
David Gonzales grew up with firearms and has many fond memories of hunting with his grandfather.
Dr. Paul Kengor is professor of political science at Grove City College and executive director of The Center for Vision & Values.
AWR Hawkins writes for all the BIG sites, for Pajamas Media, for RedCounty.com, for Townhall.com and now AmmoLand Shooting Sports News.
I am seeing similar posts on a very large number of websites and forums suggesting that H.R. 822 is a Trojan Horse. If you Google the phrase: “H.R. 822” AND “Trojan Horse”; you will get 647 results. Surprisingly these posts all have strange similarities and if you read them carefully, you will see that they all come from the same source. These postings all have the same false and misleading statements. With all the false information and dirty tricks being done by the anti-gun lobby, I believe that these Trojan Horse postings are a false flag blitz by the anti-gun groups as a ploy to get gun owners to lobby against H.R. 822. Don’t let them fool you! For my part, I am going to stick with the NRA on this one. I will continue to support passage and fight like hell against any changes to H.R. 822.
I think its about time. The NRA has my full support as always.
“House Crime Subcommittee Holds Hearing on National Right-to-Carry Bill”
Federal government getting involved with national standardization of regulation of something -let alone the RKABA…
Federal government getting involved with the collection and categorization of people who have guns(not there should be a permit/list of any kind to begin with)…
Federal government getting those who are supposed to be the wise when it comes to liberty(gun-owners/advocates) to ACTUALLY think this is a good idea…
What could possibly go wrong?
“I think its about time. The NRA has my full support as always.” -Robert J
“Napoleon is always right!”
Thanks Boxer.
“H.R. 822: Responding to the Naysayers
Unfortunately, but not unexpectedly, H.R. 822 is now
being attacked by a few self-proclaimed “gun rights”
supporters…”
Oh, I see. We’re “Naysayers” and “self-proclaimed ‘gun-rights’ supporters”?? What does that make you -Judenrat- “NRA”?
“…with no active lobbying presence in any legislature,
whose real agendas have little to do with promoting
the interests of gun owners.”
Yeah. Right. We’re not with the historically sell-outs, “no active lobbying presence” NRA. So obviously we have “little to do with promoting the interests of gun owners.”
People, hear me. This whole thing STINKS of a trap. Just look at it.
NRA gave us the GCA68, they support the NICS. It has been the little-guy(grassroots -you know, the people we are told can’t “realistically” get anything accomplished) that have done so much in getting our rights re-recognized with such things as “Open-carry” and “constitutional carry”, whereas the “Great Gorilla” NRA(you know, the great beast we are told we can’t be alive without) would have jumped in, sold us out, and we’d have a massive federal-concealed-license program (which is where this is going) by now.
This is just another attempt by the enemy to get another big step toward a federal registration, and they’ll not only get it with “pro-gun” people’s blessing, but with their triumphant cheer of a “great pro-gun victory”.
“ . . . THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”
“shall not be infringed” does not give (or reserve to) the Federal Government OR the States the power to infringe; instead it specifically DENIES the Federal Government AND the States that power. “THE POWERS NOT DELEGATED TO THE UNITED STATES BY THE CONSTITUTION, NOR PROHIBITED BY IT TO THE STATES, ARE RESERVED TO THE STATES RESPECTIVELY, OR TO THE PEOPLE.” The RIGHT (and the power) to “keep and bear arms” belongs to (and is reserved to) the people.
My thoughts on the Constitution and Concealed Carry:
1. The Federal Government has declared that some people are excluded from having the right to “keep and bear arms”. These restrictions probably would not constitute “infringement”, however, the specific exclusions would be subject to SCOTUS review:
The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:
o Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.
o Fugitives from justice.
o Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.
o Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.
o Illegal aliens.
o Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
o Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
o Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
o Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.
o Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner.
o Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition. Under limited conditions, relief from disability may be obtained from the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, or through a pardon, expungement, restoration of rights, or setting aside of a conviction.
2. The issuing of Concealed Carry Permits in Shall-Issue States can be interpreted as verifying the individuals have not been excluded from exercising this right and therefore probably would not constitute an “infringement”, however, the specific rules to obtain a permit should be reviewed by SCOTUS.
3. The issuing of Concealed Carry Permits in May-Issue States as well as the prohibition for Concealed Carry in Illinois and Washington DC, would probably constitute an “infringement” and should be declared such by the SCOTUS.
This is not an issue of States’ rights but rather is an issue of the Federal Government fulfilling its obligations to prevent States from denying citizens’ US Constitutional rights!
Eventually, I hope, SCOTUS will be forced to answer the question: “By what definition of ‘shall not be infringed’ is regulation of how and where the ‘right to keep and bear arms’ is exercised, NOT an infringement?”.
Below are the applicable sections of the US Constitution:
The United States Constitution
Article IV – The States
Section 1 – Each State to Honor all others
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
Article VI – Debts, Supremacy, Oaths
· · ·
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
[The Speaker of the House administers the oath of office as follows:
"I, (name of Member), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."]
The Amendments
AMENDMENT II – Ratified 12/15/1791.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
AMENDMENT X – Ratified 12/15/1791.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
AMENDMENT XIV – Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
· · ·
Section 5.
The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Also, checkout H.R. 2900.
I especially like that H.R. 2900 does not rely on a twisted interpretation of the Interstate Commerce clause.