By David Codrea
USA – -(Ammoland.com)- Speaker Paul Ryan will not allow Congressional action on national concealed carry reciprocity to move bills forward, Rep. Thomas Massie told host Mark Walters Thursday on Armed American Radio. The reason given is Ryan thinks the timing isn’t right to consider H.R. 2909, the D.C. Personal Protection Reciprocity Act, a supplement to state reciprocity provisions of H.R. 38.
Massie introduced his legislation after the ball field shooting of Rep. Steve Scalise and other Republicans by an anti-Trump Bernie Sanders supporter in Alexandria, VA.
“I would tell you this is a gun-free zone except that I know the criminals are carrying every day,” Massie told Walters via phone from “right outside the Capitol.
“It is only a 10-mile gun-free zone for law-abiding citizens,” Massie explained. “Although Virginia’s a reciprocity state, and most everybody with a permit could have been carrying in Virginia, they couldn’t carry in Washington D.C. where they started their day and where they were going to end their day.”
What prevented the shooting from being worse and racking up a higher victim toll was that a member of the leadership had police protection, Massie said. “I guarantee you there are thousands of firearms here in D.C. they’re just not in the hands of lawful citizens.”
Massie went on to explain how he’s seen “a lot of pro-gun bills being introduced but they were going nowhere.” That’s a common tactic among politicians happy to capitalize off good press they can showcase to their constituents while cynically understanding the bills are intended for that, not to actually be passed and to change anything.
So why has there been no movement on reciprocity and on the additional provision of recognizing state permits in the District?
“We’ve got over 80 cosponsors at this point,” Massie told Walters when asked the status of his bill, which is currently and procedurally in the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform because Congress has oversight responsibility for Washington D.C. He’s “pressing for a hearing on it.”
“Why haven’t we seen movement over either 38 or 2909 since the horrific events in Virginia?” Walters asked, noting the Republicans control the House and the Senate and both Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell appear to be blocking bills advancing the right to keep and bear arms.
“You know what?” Massie replied, “The Speaker told me he didn’t think the timing was right. And I think this is the exact timing to bring this bill.”
Of course it is. What a disingenuous excuse. When will the timing be better?
The thing is, depending on who gun owners listen to, both Ryan and McConnell are called “staunch supporters of the Second Amendment.” Yet time after time, on guns, on Obamacare, on immigration, on any real change, they look like they’re taking positions directly contrary to why a critical mass of Americans got tired of standard Republican excuse-making fare and voted for Donald Trump.
“A right delayed is a right denied,” Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. noted.
Any “Republican” who doesn't understand that deserves to be replaced by someone who does.
“Politics is the art of the possible,” apologists for the status quo representing themselves as “pragmatic” will counter. “The perfect is the enemy of the good.”
Requiring permits in the first place is hardly perfect. And as far as what is possible goes, how would those averse to testing limits have a clue?
About David Codrea:
David Codrea is the winner of multiple journalist awards for investigating / defending the RKBA and a long-time gun owner rights advocate who defiantly challenges the folly of citizen disarmament.
In addition to being a field editor/columnist at GUNS Magazine and associate editor for Oath Keepers, he blogs at “The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance,” and posts on Twitter: @dcodrea and Facebook.
Take away all private bodyguards & Secrete Service from all of congress period! The congress need no protection unless WE THE PEOPLE can protect ourselves. Theirs all a bunch of Bernie Sanders $hit!
Paul Ryan is ANti GUN, OPEN BORDERS, NWO, An ISLAMIST and ANTI-AMERICAN EVERYTHING. How he got voted back in last year is a miracle. Why Trump didn’t ask him to step down as speaker of the house at the beginning of his presidency is beyond me.
Paul Ryan has a primary challenger, Paul Nehlen. Please send a donation to Nehlen for congress, PO Box 796, Williams Bay, WI 53191. You may not be able to vote in that district but your checkbook can. Lets get RINO lyin Ryan out of office.
Remember: ryan took antifa’s side when trump correctly attacked both sides for violence at the va riot. What do you think will happen the next time gun rights are under a serious, coordinated threat like after newtown? He can’t even avoid taking the side of openly communist thugs who hide their faces klan style to avoid being arrested for all of the fights they start, so what will he do the next time there is a serious threat to the second amendmnet?
Remember just because a Politican is a Republican or say they are a Constitutionalist does mean they are on any issue . This is why the Voters can’t count on these Lying Politicans
Call and email your congressman, state gop party, national gop party, and the nra about paul ryan. Tell them no more support or no more money until they get rid of ryan. Instead, donate to his challenger paul niehlen who is both pro gun and pro border wall. Speaker ryan is also pushing daca amnesty and opposed to any funding for a border wall or serious immigration enforcementm. Let them all know we can do to Ryan and mcconnel what dave brat did to cantor.
https://mobile.twitter.com/pnehlen
http://www.electnehlen.com
I’m not sure that you even know the can of worms that your statement opened. When Dave Brat unseated Eric Cantor, it was a political earthquake and this caused the swamp critters to circle their swamp wagons. McConnell was challenged in his last primary by Matt Bevin and, for a good while, it looked like Bevin was going to Cantor McConnell. Then McConnell crawled into the gutter and began a disgusting smear campaign against Bevin, including the leftist style accusations of racism. Some reporting even had McConnell luring black voters into crossing over in the primary AND paying for votes(HIGHLY ILLEGAL). He did this with financial support from the……..wait for it…….NRA. When I wrote to the NRA asking why they would become involved in a primary where both candidates are pro 2A, they didn’t even bother to write back and tell me to go eff myself. Seems that the “good ol’ boys” network is going to do all that it can to make certain that no one else in the club gets Cantored. Personally, I will never again support any candidate who has made a career out of shredding our Constitution in order to keep their cushy job in Washington. Within a few years, ninety percent of them have become lap dogs to their K Street masters.
In a political race where both the incumbent and challenger have a pro gun record, the NRA will support the incumbent. That is smart politics. Remember the NRA is a single issue organization, dedicated to protecting our gun rights. They cannot do that by alienating pro gun incumbents.
@ diana berger, your last comment about socialistic media leaves me to believe you are a lib and a troll trying to cause trouble on a conservative site. If you think you are going to change any opinion of the conservatives on this site, I would like to inform you that you are barking up the wrong tree.
“your last comment about socialistic media leaves me to believe you are a lib and a troll trying to cause trouble on a conservative site.”
Normally, an expression of lib trolling would be evidence of that. As soon as you can find any liberal view that I’ve supported, I will be happy to either defend or admit the point. No reasonable response can be made on what you believe. Just to clarify, so you don’t have to rely on abstract belief, I’m not sure where I stand on the larger issue of gun ownership, but do believe it’s a national issue, and should therefore be legislated at the federal level, whether for wider or more restricted rights – and that making it a state issue has led to widely varying and confusing gun laws that negatively impact both sides of the debate, and discourages more honest debate about gun ownership. If you want to call that trolling, be my guest.
The “comment” about socialist media was a pun, that – compared to the opposition – the pro-gun side of the issue has sharply avoided use of social media, almost as much as they hate socialism.
@tomcat, I just read her response. You have her pegged.
Is this a “conservative only” site. No good discussion comes through a closed door.
@the Brick… Try telling that to the priest .
@LB, Conservative only site? They let me on here, and I am widely known as a “fiscal irresponsible.” But when people post intentional misinformation, socialist propaganda, or push a hiLIARy clintoon political agenda, all of which are obviously false and don’t match up with real world experience, then it is just insulting.
Take for example, your little made up saying. It is totally wrong! If you would have written that, No bad discussion comes through a closed door. you would have been correct.
Paul Ryan is a Progressive and a collaborator.
The republican(sic) caucus needs to depose him.
Washington Post tries to discredit John Lott of Fox news proposal to require voters to pass the background check undergone by firearms purchasers .
It looks like Steve Bannon of Breitbart News will be identifying GOP who are anti POTUS. Pay attention remember when you go to the primaries
Can anyone cite the portion of the USC where the States delegated any power regarding firearms to the Federal government? If not, then stand down, or do you support only parts of the USC?
Right, wrong or indifferent, here’s a good piece on how we got to where we are today. If everyone takes the time to read it it’ll make you shake your collective heads at the false premise that that States and the Federal Govt have operated on from the very beginning and which they still try to force on us to this day; you can legislate away bad behavior with laws.
http://digitalcommons.library.umaine.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1256&context=mpr
@SgtJUSMC, Thank you for your service. I always felt comfortable when the USMC was in theatre with me. As to your question, No, no one can cite that because it is not there. Congress created the Gun Control Act of 1968. Later when the GCA was challenged, the elitist S.Ct. backed Congress by finding that the GCA was a proper exercise of Congress’s authority to control commerce. That is not what Congress intended, of course, or Congress would have called it the Commerce Control Act of 1968, but the GCA was upheld. Congress and the S.Ct have been corrupt at least since 1967.
The National Firearms Act of 1934 could be said to be a proper exercise of Congress’s taxing authority, but using government’s powers and authorities to infringe on a pre political Constitutionally enumerated, God given individual civil Right, is a very hot topic. The NFA has not, to my knowledge, been Constitutionally tested.
Wild Bill,
Thank you for your service. We must change the paradigm of our thinking. Nowhere in the USC is SCOTUS delegated the power to determine the Constitutionality of any Federal law. SCOTUS only issues OPINIONS on this matter. To allow SCOTUS to deem the Constitutionality of Federal laws is to allow the Federal government to determine its own powers which the USC is in place to limit. Remember, the USC, as understood by the ratifiers, is Law to the Federal government and should only impact individual citizens in limited ways, e.g. counterfeiting, piracy and treason.
A good reference would be “The Kentucky Resolutions,” written in response to the Alien and Sedition Acts, also deemed constitutional by SCOTUS.
@ SgtJUSMC – actually if you go back in your history you’ll find that at the end of the War Between the States the Bill of Rights became construed as a prohibition against the States, whereas before the war it was a prohibition to the Federal Government. But both sides have conveniently forgotten the “Shall not be infringed” part of the Second Amendment. I spent 20 years defending everyone’s freedoms and found out exactly what the Founders meant with their wording.
That is why we need to fight against ALL encroachments. Without the Second there is no First Amendment.
First Amendment – I have the right to associate with whomever I want, practice my religion freely, question my government, and peacefully assemble for a redress of grievances.
Second Amendment – Because I said so!
@SgtUSMC and VE, You are, both, quite correct. One branch of government claiming to be the ultimate “pronouncer” of what is or is not Constitutional is a legal fiction that the S. Ct. created for itself, on its own authority, in Marbury v. Madison. Any one branch can tell the S. Ct. that they do not agree and will not comply.
In Cooper v. Aaron in 1958, the S. Ct. claimed: ” …that the Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Constitution was supreme in importance to the constitutional interpretation of the other two branches of government…”
That notion is patently, historically, and factually false. For Example: If the S. Ct ruled that 2+2= 5, need we pass a Constitutional amendment to make 2+2=4?
When he was being considered for speaker I said it then and I will say now he is lower than pond scum. Always has been and always will be.
REPLACE RYAN AND McCONNELL. They are both POS just like McCain
I agree. Look at the voting record of both of these USEFUL IDIOTS. You will see that they scream No, No, No to the DemocRAT-ick communist party. Then, at the last minute, they vote FOR what their COMMUNIST co-conspirators WANT!!!! These RINOs MUST be voted OUT of ANY and ALL public offices. They want nothing but to PAD-THEIR-POCKETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Boy i do agree with your post! Absolutely
Ryan’s Hope. Just say nope. Whadda dope.
Congressman Massie talks a good game, but he is calling out Speaker Ryan for inaction on concealed carry reciprocity when he has not yet signed on as co-sponsor to HR 38 himself. Massie should first endorse national concealed carry reciprocity himself, and then he can criticize.
Demoncrats and Repugnicans are merely two sides of the same bad coin that keeps turning up. This fraud will not end until we vote ALL of them out and get either a third party, or enough fresh faces under the threat of being voted out the next term if they don’t clean up their act, that they actually do so. The legislation we need as the next Amendment to the Constitution is severe (perhaps one term?) term limits for ALL of them, and a thorough cleanup up of the deep state.
Good luck on any of the above. The best we’ll probably get is a civil war.
Ryan is another Boehner, when are we going to get rid of the RINOS to lead our conservative programs?
@MadM, Dems and Repubs are two sides of the same evil coin. That “coin” is the party system. In this age of computers, we could post the candidates resumes on line and they could debate each other , as we do here. So why do the parties still exist. Because of the money and power. Both parties consist of 100% swamp creatures.
This RINO Must be Kicked out of OFFICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BINGO!!!!! He has been bought and paid for by every special interest on K Street. Cut him loose and put someone in who isn’t afraid of a good political fight. Ryan is a wet noodle when it comes to serving the conservative cause. 86 him.
NRA members when you call the NRA tell them we want them behind Nehlen.
I may have missed it — does any one have an address for Nehlen?
Sorry just found it thanks
http://www.electnehlen.com
Ryan can be replaced by a trained monkey.
Is there any that couldn’t be? well maybe not Trump they don’t have of mold of him yet and I don’t think he can be bought!
Of course Trump could be bought . . . anybody can be bought.
However, I don’t think anybody can afford to buy Trump.
This may be the nail needed to put ryan in his coffin. Get this done and you will see an earth quake among the rino’s .
Suppose we could get a tufor and get McCain in the coffin with him ?
Re an obstructionist speaker, should a majority of House members with to take it, I imagine there is a road around obstructions.
Typo’s are annoying, “with” should be “wish”. Apologies.
@Alan, No way around the House Speaker. The House and the Senate have each created there own rules and procedures over the years. Nothing is just a vote, and that is part of the dishonesty in Washington, District of Corruption.
Anti gun RINO Ryan has a primary challenger, Paul Nehlen at PO Box 796, Williams Bay, Wi 53191. You may not be able to vote in that district but your checkbook can. Please donate to Nehlen for congress and help show lyin Ryan the door. We deserve a real republican for house speaker.
we as gun owners should flood his face book page and twitter page and email the White House in care of Paul Ryan
Let him Know How Many People want this
Already started. Everyday until he is primaried out of office. Can’t vote him out as I Live in a Free State but I can sure as Hell fund his opponent. Sic Simper Tyrannous. Keep Your Powder Dry.
While you’re at it, why not flood the FB pages of the House Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, Homeland Security, and Investigations, where House Bill is currently…doing whatever stillborn bills do. Also, gun owners need to send a strongly message to the Senate, which killed reciprocity despite a bi-partisan House vote in favor of reciprocity in 2011.
Why is RINO ryan speaker of the house? He is not a conservative republican and is in fact a liberal demoncrat. Can we, the people, petition for his removal from his position in Congress. I find it hard to believe that the people in Wisconsin even voted for him and suspect voter fraud.
Never had much use for Ryan.
Call NRA, 703-267-1000, ask for ILA and don’t believe any BS they give you about they’re doing all they can. Tell them you want it up for a vote THIS YEAR or not one cent to them.
Just contacted NRA ILA to express my disgust with Mr. Ryan on this issue. I also called for the immediate revocation of all support for Mr. Ryan in a public statement. Being a Life Member and offering monetary support on a regular basis. My continued support of the NRA is dependent on their next course of action in regards to Mr. Ryan. I ask that all members do likewise. If the NRA can’t support it’s members with it’s actions then we should not support it with our money.
@L. E. B., Ryan is the speaker of the house (second in line for the presidency) because a majority of the house members voted him speaker. No democrats voted for him, of course. Ryan’s party voted for him, knowing that he was a Rino, and that should tell you something about the Repubs in the house of representatives. Oh, and welcome to the site.
That’s absolutely the problem. I keep hearing people say we need a “real” republican to replace these rhino jackwagons. That used to mean something but it doesn’t anymore. We need conservatives to replace them, not more useless republicans. Republicans are only conservative when they think a voter is watching.
Don’t forget, we tried to get a more Conservative person as speaker, but the swamp creatures used smoke and mirrors to thwart that. Also Ryan was picked to be speaker by the former speaker who resigned. Of coarse they passed and voted on reciprocity when the “N” was President because they knew he would never sign the legislation, they did the same thing with Obambam Care, they were just doing their dog and pony show. If we want change we need to get rid of these life time swamp creatures. Don’t contribute to the RNC or anything connected to them. Donate only to individuals, Tea Party, Heritage Foundation. RNC= Rinos, Nitwits, Cowards.
Send donations to his primary challenger, Paul Nehlen
This is a surprise, he’s no Republican, he’s one of the swamp creatures, that needs to be taken out of power. There is a good man, as far as I can tell, running against him in his district. Most likely Ryan is being funded by Sorass and Blumturd, so he will do what ever his puppeteers tell him to do.
Ryan needs a beating
Ryan has a primary opponent; Paul Nehlen; Send him $$, and if you can, VOTE and work for his election.
Nehlen is a Phoney Conservative.
@CM But Ryan is a phony conservative, too!
@CM… Is there a conservative candidate in his district to get behind ? With the social media a grass roots campaign could be viable, example, POTUS Trump demonstrates how to use the social media.
I hope some one will step forward. Nehlen has NO record of accomplishment’s other than a recent book. I haven’t read it wont waste the money. When asked about many of his so called successful business adventures he choked out. He has supported dems in the past. His Campaign head quarters and phone number were his house near Lake Geneva . He would be another John McCain. If somebody can prove me wrong I’ll retract my position on him.
@CM, Do you mean Lake Geneva, Switzerland?
@WB…There is a Lake Geneva in sw wisconsin
Actually, he is not. The only phony is Ryan
@Donald Baker, What are your facts, brother?
It doesn’t matter, he’s just a stick to beat Ryan with.
Yep of course he is one of the idiots blocking this. If don’t matter to him or any like him cause he can hide behind the guns of his secret service or personal body guards who can carry guns any where they want to . It is people like him who have proved time and time again they don’t give a damn about the common folk and there safety or welfare. But yet we a citizens keep voting these idiots back into power. It is time we the common folk tell them what we want by replacing them with people who will work for us the common folks.
How about introducing another bill as an alternative to this one. Require the federal government to provide secret service agents to protect all the law abiding citizens they deny the right to protect themselves. They’re destroying our country monetary system with unlimited debt anyway. This will just finish it sooner.
@Aardvark, Yes, and don’t forget devaluing the money, tool. Barry Soetoro devalued the dollar by half, just with his phone and ink pen, and screwed every American that earns wages or had a 401(k).
The NRA probably won’t take on the Speaker of the House, but they should downgrade his NRA rating for sure.
Not sure if we can take back the Government one seat at a time, but it is time to try by running someone against every incumbent in primaries. Both parties are tone deaf, and guys like Speaker Ryan are masters at saying one thing in front of voters and doing another back in the halls of Congress.
You’re kidding, right? “The NRA probably won’t take on the Speaker of The House”? The NRA can make or break the Paul Ryan simply by telling members, en masse, to call his office and relay the message; Mr. Speaker, get this Bill voted on and passed or not one further dime to you or the GOP and we’ll make sure we vote for your opponent.
Further, the NRA can make it perfectly clear that members will support those who wish to challenge Ryan for Speaker. You have no idea how much influence they can have if they wish to use it.
Actually, after Clinton passed his gun ban, the sitting speaker of the house was one of the congressmen the NRA defeated.
Paul Rino is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the U.S. Chamber of Crony Globalists.
For an article entitled “Ryan Blocking Concealed Carry Reciprocity” I was dismayed that the article failed to demonstrate that Ryan was in fact blocking anything. HR38 has been left for months in the good graces of The Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, Homeland Security, and Investigations, which the author doesn’t even mention, and Ryan doesn’t have a seat (the article doesn’t mention its membership, the majority of which is Republican. Ryan’s saying that the timing isn’t right is possibly more of a reflection of the situation than the cause – the author seems to understand this when he acknowledges that politicians are “happy to capitalize off good press they can showcase to their constituents while cynically understanding the bills are intended for that, not to actually be passed and to change anything.” The opposite is also true, that people are happy to slam politicians for inaction that they themselves haven’t quite spurred. Despite all the talk about “draining the swamp” and voting for change, American gun owners are content to fall back on the same arguments which – as reasonable as they may be – haven’t swayed enough of our elected officials or fellow citizens. If you’re fighting for a change in the status quo, it’s unreasonable to do so without a change in your strategy. You can either 1) do what you’ve been doing and blame the highest ranking Republican, who has no place on the committee actually deciding the bill, or you can 2) bring your complaints to the chairs of that committee – both Republican and Democrat; If you choose the first option, if you fall back on the past failing strategy, don’t complain when it proves a failure again.
What about the quote that Ryan said not to pass the bill now? Why wait if there really are 200 co-sponsors? Wait for what? Ryan has been in power a long time, but gets little done. Time for a change.
“What about the quote that Ryan said not to pass the bill now?”
Can you provide that quote, because I saw nothing like that in this article. The mention of “timing” is completely vague and equivocal – as much an order (don’t vote) as an observation (they’re not voting because); If Ryan’s obstructionism were that great, the author wouldn’t have had to say
“both Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell appear to be blocking bills advancing the right to keep and bear arms”
– instead he’d be able to say “both Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell are blocking reciprocity bills” – an skip the whole “appear” thing.
“why wait if there really are 200 co-sponsors?”
Oh, where to beging?
*Because sponsors aren’t voters.
**Because 200 sponsors isn’t a whole heck of a lot – the last congressional stab at reciprocity.nabbed 214 co-sponsors and still never left committee;
***because a bill requires passage in the House and Senate to become law, and the Senate is even more indifferent than the house; There’s been no action on either bill – but if you’re going to look at sponsors, the Senate bill has only 37, and the last one – John Kennedy – signed on in May; before him, the last sponsors signed on in March, meaning that we’re approaching 6 months w/o any sign of life.
“Time for a change”
I agree – and that requires that you do more than change your vote. You need ot communicate with those already in office. Bloomberg, Everytown, any of those anti-gun organizations do that all the time. You think they’re happy to post angry comments about political officials who don’t pass laws they want? They’re out there using every avenue of social media, communicating directly with the politicians who are actually deciding those bills, not just the ones with the most recognized names.
Paul Ryan Quote: Massie replied, “The Speaker told me he didn’t think the timing was right. And I think this is the exact timing to bring this bill.”
That’s not Ryan’s quote – that’s Massie’s quote. You can’t hold what someone else said against someone else.
Seriously Massie blaming Ryan for a bill that failed for reasons that have nothing to do with Ryan
“What about the quote that Ryan said not to pass the bill now?”
The “quote” was not Ryan’s and sounds more like an observation than an order. The author of this article must think so because he only goes as far as saying that it “appears” that Ryan & McConnell are blocking the law – if you can’t more unequivocal than that, than writing a sentence without “appear” or “seems” in your sentence, than the case hasn’t been made.
As an observation, Ryan seems to have the mood right – because passing a bill is a two-house process, and movement in the Senate has been virtually non-existent. The House already passed a reciprocity bill, years ago – with over 30 democrats supporting it – but the effort died in the Senate. Support for the current reciprocity bill looks no stronger than it did in 2012, before the Newtown tragedy.
It doesn’t matter what semantics you want to use to defend mr establishment ryan. He is in charge and the bill has not received a vote. Period. He is held responsible for that fact.
I am sure if the bill instead was about giving more money to Israel or giving more power to the cia/nsa/military industrial complex there would not be an issue of timing or delays. He had his time to get it done and has failed.
He sure didn’t worry about timing when defending bolshevik antifa thugs from trump to the wild applause of the media!
“It doesn’t matter what semantics you want to use to defend mr establishment ryan.”
It won’t matter if taking on Ryan – if your sole participation in this issue to to complain about Ryan, complain about McConnell, complain about the NRA, pro-gun special interest groups, complain about liberal politicians, voters and special interest groups, complain about Antifa, BLM, bolsheviks, communards, jacobins, jacobites or vikings – basically anyone or anything,
but
don’t communicate your complaints beyond message boards on pro-gun sites, and don’t reach out to the specific congressmen and senators on the House and Senate Judiciary committees, then reciprocity is going to fail. Blame anyone you want to – it doesn’t matter.
“He sure didn’t worry about timing when defending bolshevik antifa thugs from trump to the wild applause of the media!”
The pro-gun Congressmen on the House Judiciary Committee, and pro-gun Senators on the Senate Judiciary Committee don’t have to worry about timing, your disappointment with them, or anything else, because no one is calling them out for their inaction on the bill.
“I am sure if the bill instead was about giving more money to Israel or giving more power to the cia/nsa/military industrial complex there would not be an issue of timing or delays.”
There would not be? There have been many bills on that subject – have any of them suffered inaction in committee/subcommittee similar to that of the reciprocity bills? Have any such bills faced overwhelming indifference in the Senate? Because that’s the situation faced by CCW reciprocity.
And what is the excuse for the NRA not pushing this? And before you ask how I know they haven’t remember this; when the NRA wants members to force an issue they send out the call for them to call their Congressional representatives. They pound this day and night through all the media. All we’ve heard from the NRA is crickets chirping.
“And what is the excuse for the NRA not pushing this?”
Pushing what? CCW reciprocity? Sounds like they’ve been a stern supporter of that. I’ve been to their website, and they’ve been informative on the subject.
“when the NRA wants members to force an issue they send out the call for them to call their Congressional representatives. They pound this day and night through all the media.”
Seriously? You need the NRA to tell you how to do something you 1) already know how to do? 2) should have long ago learned how to do? This is the 21st century, and the NRA shouldn’t need to send out a call for anything.
In any event, the greatest weapon a politician has in favor of legislation is an unambiguous sign that his support is coming directly from voters and not from a lobbying group.
Let’s back this truck up for just one minute. Does the NRA represent 2 or 3 million gun owners or don’t they? Do they (the NRA) or don’t they inundate us, sometimes weekly, with pleas for money so they can pursue this or that? Do they or do they not have the ability to make or break political careers? You know the answer to all of the above as well as I do so let’s not go putting all this on the individual members backs and hold blameless the poor NRA.
If I were a suspicious type, reading your posts, I’d say you sound awfully like an NRA PR rep :). That aside, folks pay NRA, and pay them A LOT to represent them and get things done. You mention numbers, okay let’s take numbers. 80 cosponsors is damn good. You don’t need everyone to be a cosponsor in order to get them to vote for a Bill. On the Senate and House side NRA needs to make this #1 priority and get companion Bills. Gun owners are livid that NRA is blowing them off with “well, we’re doing what we can, there are a lot of things going on right now”. That’s BS pure and simple.
When Eric Cantor blew off gun owners in Virginia and told them they were insignificant they blew him off in record numbers. NRA/ILA is figuring they can “shine on” members the same way they’ve done for years on other issues. This may turn out to be a huge mistake. There are other groups and other resources vying for the money and membership. NRA ignores it Members at their own peril.
And as a PS: as far as hearing from individuals, I agree completely. So how about NRA putting out the clarion call, as they’ve done so many times before, for members to burn down the servers at Congress. Doesn’t it make YOU wonder why they haven’t?
“You know the answer to all of the above as well as I do so let’s not go putting all this on the individual members backs and hold blameless the poor NRA.”
That would depend on what “all this” includes. Just what is it that you expect the NRA to do this situation? Tell you about a bill you already know about? Convince elected officials that proposed legislation is not only just and constitutional, but that the NRA will have their legs broken if they don’t pass it?
Complaints about the NRA – as I’ve seen them described – are excessive, not accounting for the gap between expectations and the reality. Many gun controllers acknowledge that the NRA actually gets a lot of is money from gun owners (a lot of them seem content to chalk up their support to the gun industry) and thus represent a legitimate cross-section of Americans. The fact that a large number of law abiding gun owners exists is a huge political, social and moral boost to the right to bear arms in this country. But honestly what is it that you expect the NRA to do – use the Dark SIde of the Force?
I’ve said it repeatedly, and I’m gonna keep saying it – the names of the congressmen and senators currently in direct authority over each bill are matters of public record – direct your attentions on them. Unless you take the action directly to those politicians who are uniquely linked to CCW reciprocity, those politicians are going to keep doing what they have been doing – nothing.
“If I were a suspicious type, reading your posts, I’d say you sound awfully like an NRA PR rep”
Luckily, you’re not a suspicious type, and you’ve said nothing that would raise anyone else’s suspicions.
But in honest disclosure I have to reveal that I’m not only not an NRA member, I don’t even own a gun. I am completely unconnected with the outcome of the bill’s passage. I have posted comments to both sides, and I’m convinced that each side has its legitimate points. That aside, the lack of nationwide CCW means that gun control is the status quo in America, and gun owners shoulder the extra weight of shifting that set of circumstances.
Common sense would tell you that when past tactics don’t work, you abandon them. When strength proves insufficient, then you have to reconsider how you’ve been using it. Yet, despite the internet telling us where the house and senate bills currently are, and despite knowing who sits on those committees, gun owners have resolutely directed their anger..everywhere else. On the many message boards I’ve seen on this subject, there’s this pronounced ire directed at two politicians who – prominent as they may be – are not in control of those bills. Gun owners seem confident that they can communicate their ire…at McConnell’s and Ryan’s re-election, which won’t happen until 2018 and 2020. By then, CCW reciprocity will be long dead, and the congressmen and senators who actually presided over its demise will never have had to answer for their inaction. I’ve definitely seen resistance to the idea of calling out the members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, or the House Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, Homeland Security, and Investigations. It’s just astonishing to me that gun owners are so indifferent towards directed communication towards politicians actually considering sweeping gun control legislation.
“You mention numbers, okay let’s take numbers. 80 cosponsors is damn good”
It is? Where are those 80 sponsors? The Senate bill? I’ve seen that bill with fewer than 40 sponsors, and that number’s been frozen since May. The house CCW bill I’d say it sucks. The last reciprocity bill died with 214 cosponsors. When it came up to a full chamber vote in 2011, reciprocity garnered 245 co-sponsors (many being democrats), and actually passed 272-154. HR38, the current house bill, has eked out 209 sponsors, and there’s been no action in subcommittee (please correct me if I’m wrong); As you note, you don’t need sponsors – it’s votes that count, but gun owners haven’t mobilized to secure those votes. All they’ve done is heat up the internet with complaints about Ryan and McConnell.
As to your OS, If you don’t think the NRA is serving your interests, I can’t argue with you, but frankly you’re naive if you think any organization of comparable scale will more directly act on your interests. I’ll be cynical – the NRA is happy to see people being angry in general, and yet indifferent towards the legislators directly connected with pending legislation. If gun owners can’t take what amounts in the 21st century to simple, yet coordinated action, the NRA is not going to go the extra distance.
I seem to recall that the NRA now claims OVER 4 MILLION members!
@Diana Berger: What you’re doing here is a passive aggressive posture with “….well, the NRA wants people angry but….” and then you go on to give them a pass by stating, well, what do you expect from the NRA if the members don’t call their elected members. Nice try at that tactic. Let’s take this right back where it started with the NRA representing millions of gun owners and not using every resource at their disposal, which, if you remember, they promised they would do when then candidate Trump was running and was endorsed by the NRA as the one candidate who would support “your gun rights like no other”.
Okay, where is the NRA in talks with now President Trump on Reciprocity and the suppressor Bill? Where is the NRA in talks with House and Senate leadership? I don’t believe I ever heard one word, during the campaign, about their unfettered support being contingent upon 1 or 1 million gun owners calling Congress or the President. It was WE (the NRA) will get this done if Donald Trump is elected and we have a Republican Congress & Senate.
Stop trying to place the blame on gun owners. Stop trying to make excuses for the NRA. Start holding them accountable for what they said, what they promised. And for god’s sake stop acting like a shill for the NRA, using weasely phrases to let them off the hook.
“NRA representing millions of gun owners and not using every resource at their disposal, which, if you remember, they promised they would do -”
Which means what, exactly? What did you take that to mean? In all of the responses here, neither you nor anyone else has pointed out how the NRA has failed you. Instead, I’ve seen resolute arguments against you taking the least meaningful steps to advance your agenda.
“I don’t believe I ever heard one word, during the campaign, about their unfettered support being contingent upon 1 or 1 million gun owners calling Congress or the President.”
Why would you need anyone to tell you that? That’s basic civics. Politicians respond positively to measures that are demonstrably in voters’ attentions. many liberals insist that NRA gets much/most/virtually all the support from gun companies, and not from individual citizens. Gun owners can reinforce that liberal pipe dream by stubbornly leaving the NRA to do the leg work, or challenging it by taking the initiative.
Reading your comment, it sounds like your choice of the latter is motivated less by the need to push pro-gun legislation, and more to get back the value of whatever you write out to them. You cut a check to the NRA for X dollars, and you’re not doing anything until they’ve earned that trust. That’s noble in principle, but it’s politically useless because, as I said before, the NRA is just happy to keep you pissed off.
“Trump was running and was endorsed by the NRA as the one candidate who would support …”
I’m sorry, but I could have warned you about that. It’s bad enough when a guy is clearly all talk…but Trump was all incoherent talk. Trump could never deliver what he was promising, other than a lot of bitching, and anyone supporting him was also just talk, and everyone should have known better. Now that’s not to say that Trump can’t one day become a great president or at least a very good President, once he stops tweeting.
“where is the NRA in talks with now President Trump on Reciprocity and the suppressor Bill?”
Where do you expect them to be? Where were they in 2013 when the House actually passed nationwide reciprocity?
“Stop trying to place the blame on gun owners.”
It’s not that I blame them. It’s just that I don’t understand them. In a battle between two blocs of Americans – the side that believes in pulling no punches, in directing their fire towards specific targets with specific goals, using both social media and in-person contact, is also the side that opposes personal ownership of firearms. The gun control bloc – in groups and individuals – uses every form of communication to make their will and their numbers known to politicians. Yeah, that bill’s dead.
“Start holding them accountable for what they said, what they promised. ”
They promised you nothing. I’m sorry, but political hype and shallow sentiment is no promise. You should have known better. Generations of Americans have been warned to recognize empty promises, and this was an obvious example. When politicians or special interest groups make promises like that, your instinct should be to imagine how these guy might completely drop the ball and still claim a win. The NRA can claim they offered the support they promised, and it’s not their fault that others screwed up. Americans have seen that sort of thing throughout their history, yet you still bought into the hype.
“And for god’s sake stop acting like a shill for the NRA, using weasely phrases to let them off the hook.”
You know where the bill is; you know the names of the politicians who have the bill. You can either do nothing and watch it die, or confront those politicians directly, and give that bill a real chance. No one can be less weasely than that.
Breaking some legs,,… could be a good place to start !!
“Why would you need anyone to tell you that? That’s basic civics….” I love how you keep circling this back around to try and make it the gun owners fault. Let’s break this down into the basic components. The individual member is the customer who hires (through dues and contributions) the NRA to represent them in firearms legislative matters. When the NRA says it will do everything it can to get legislation passed gun owners have a history that they can draw upon, since the Cincinnati Revolt, when ILA was formed, to know how NRA/ILA functions, what their successes have been and how they have achieved those successes.
Now, when NRA/ILA promises to do something for its members they have a responsibility to fulfill that promise to the very best of their ability, not pay lip service and have people like you say “well, you know how it is, what did you expect?”. What I expected was full and complete representation and that includes telling members when it is time to, en masse, call their elected representatives. Possibly you are not aware but there is a science to this. In a very small way I helped the person responsible for the repeal of the Park’s Service Ban. It went step by step. I know the steps and NRA/ILA does not appear to be following any of them.
You have, throughout this entire tome, continually focused on shifting the blame to the individual, blaming them for inaction and then dismissing it all by saying “NRA shouldn’t have to send out a call for anything”. Given that NRA represents the individual gun owner and, so to speak, steers the ship, this is an absurd statement. To further the ludicrousness you then state that NRA is happy with gun owners being angry. Yes indeed, that’s just what any company wants, it’s members being angry at them! And don’t try to pawn this off by saying “oh no I meant angry at politicians”. No, you didn’t and no, they aren’t. Gun owners are furious at politicians AND the NRA and I suspect you are enjoying it.
Finally, you gave yourself away when you earlier stated that gun control should be legislated at the Federal Level. Wrong. There should be no control on the inherent Right to self defense by any individual, State or Federal Government. The Right to defend yourself can never be compromised by anyone. That Right predates all Governments. Gun control, for that matter, control of all arms, has only one purpose, to subjugate people and discriminate. It has never been about stopping crime or deterring criminals from committing crimes. What does work and what we should be striving for is the complete abolition of all gun laws and the absolute enforcement of maximum penalties against anyone who rapes, robs, assaults or murders. Then you’ll start to see a difference.
I’m finished.
@ Vanns40, Well said. I was planning on writing a reply to this diana berger but you pretty much covered it all. She did mention that she felt Trump’s campaign promises were all incoherent talk. Many of her sentences leave me to believe she is a troll, however, she may be trying to learn something about this side of the spectrum. Maybe she is trying mind twisting to bring us to her side of the board.
Whatever it may be, at this point I think we have to move on from her long gun owner blame speeches.
Yeah, whatever we do let’s not hold Ryan accountable. What the commenter failed to mention, was that Ryan can demand a committee vote to move the resolution to the floor. But whatever we do let’s not hold them accountable.
“What the commenter failed to mention, was that Ryan can demand a committee vote to move the resolution to the floor.”
If we need Ryan to force a committee with a majority membership of pro-gun Republicans to vote in favor of pro-gun legislation, then the blame isn’t Ryan’s, not alone anyway. The names of the Republicans on that committee are a matter of public record.
I agree. Let’s all call “our” people in Washington. They will only move if they are forced to. I no longer financially support either party. As a life-long Republican I an disgusted with the whole bunch of big talkers, little doers. Do not know how to get them moving.
I’ve been hearing positive buzz about something they call Socialistic Media….
This demonstrates that Ryan is a RINO and not a true Conservative or a true Republican. People like Ryan illustrate to me that I belong in the Tea Party and not the Republican Party. I’ll retain Republican membership so I can vote in the Primaries, but I will not donate money to the GOP.
My thoughts and feelings exactly I will add that Ryan and McConnell need to exit from Congress. They are equal to the Democrat obstructionists.
But how does Ryno keep getting elected: by winning the Repub. primary election. That makes him the only Repub candidate for that office in the general election.
Paul Ryan is basically a two faced poor example of a leader. No skills what so ever with leadership and about 60% RHINO
@Clyde, Yep, he could not lead me to the water cooler. But he has the political election skills that a political a$$ whole needs to slime his way to the top.
If you’re an NRA member you can place a large part of the blame squarely on them. Call them and complain loudly.