Our System Requires Lying

Opinion

Doctor Gun Banners
Doctor Gun Banners

Ft Collins, CO –-(Ammoland.com)- Follow-up on my last Quip on the American Medical Association:

I suggested declinng to answer questions about gun-ownership, political leanings, etc, when they come up in discussions on personal health matters with your doctor.

Many Doctors who are DTI students, responded:

“Medicare now requires the question about gun-ownership be asked. When it is not asked, reimbursement to the doctor is jeopardized. Answers go on a form, and forms are submitted.

The form has only two boxes, ‘Yes,’ and ‘No.’

When you answer anything other than ‘No,’ the doctor will check the ‘Yes’ box. So, when you decline to answer, no matter how politely, the ‘Yes’ box gets a check-mark in it.

Imagine, for example, that you are in Nazi Germany in 1936, and your doctor asks (as he is required to do),

‘Do you have Jewish relatives?’

When you answer, “That’s irrelevant and none of your business,” the doctor checks the ‘Yes’ box, and you suddenly have an unanticipated train-ride in your immediate future.”

With the foregoing in mind, here are some suggested responses, all far briefer than the one I advised:

  1.  “Not for discussion here, Doctor.”
  2. “Doctor, unless you can explain what that has to do with my medical diagnosis and treatment, let’s not waste
    our time discussing it.”
  3. “No” (without further comment)

I like to maintain personal honesty, but I have to admit option 3 is probably best. Your best interests are served when the doctor immediately puts a check-mark in the “No” box.

Our System does not reward truthfulness and honesty. Our System rewards, indeed requires, lying.

Non-responsive answers will be translated as “Yes,” as noted above.

In addition, your refusal to answer straightforwardly will be noted, and likely interpreted further as a sign of incipient mental unsoundness.

Remember the way Stalin declared even the slightest political opposition to be prima-facie evidence of “insanity?” This malignant ideology is always just under the surface.

HRC (hillary clinton), during her recent presidential campaign, said essentially the same thing.

The apple never falls far from the evil tree.

/John

Defense Training International, Inc

About John Farnam & Defense Training International, Inc
As a defensive weapons and tactics instructor John Farnam will urge you, based on your own beliefs, to make up your mind in advance as to what you would do when faced with an imminent lethal threat. You should, of course, also decide what preparations you should make in advance if any. Defense Training International wants to make sure that their students fully understand the physical, legal, psychological, and societal consequences of their actions or in-actions.

It is our duty to make you aware of certain unpleasant physical realities intrinsic to the Planet Earth. Mr. Farnam is happy to be your counselor and advisor. Visit: www.defense-training.com

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Dan FeigenbaumSaracenMichael S GorbackWild BillMichael Gorback Recent comment authors
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Saracen
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Saracen

I worked for 30 years as a physician at a VAMC. I think many of my colleagues did what I did…. just check the box no. No questions on the subject were asked.

Michael Gorback
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Michael Gorback

I practice in Texas and it’s interesting how many weapons I’ve found during a physical exam. When that happens I usually stop the exam right there and start asking what caliber, make, model, holster, etc. I only have one rule regarding guns in my office: no open carry because other patients can get freaked out. I also have some vets with PTSD from their military service who would not react well. Well, two rules: if you decide to show me your weapon follow the safety rules and always keep the muzzle pointed next door towards my landlord. OTOH, I think… Read more »

Wild Bill
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Wild Bill

@MG, What is it that you practice in Texas? When you ask “… what caliber, make, model, holster, etc…” what do you do with the information? I would that any discussion beyond follow the general safety rules and your particular office safety rules would be superfluous.

Dan Feigenbaum
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Dan Feigenbaum

Dummy!!!
That’s called sarcasm, obviously something you know nothing about.
That puts you in the flaming liberal class of mindless sheeple that are screwing up the country.

Michael S Gorback
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Michael S Gorback

Although I haven’t seen the post here, I did receive a question in my email about what I do with the info regarding the weapon, holster, etc.

Answer: Nothing. I usually offer to show them what I’m carrying. Any gun guy coming into my office gets an extra 10 minutes free to talk about shooting and hunting. I even hunt with some of my patients. You have a lease? No co-pays for your visit!

Doug
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Doug

Nit picking, but it’s HIPAA, not HIPPA. Ever since this started coming up I’ve vowed to lie to any doctor who asks such a question for the very reason that any sort of evasive answer will be treated as a “yes”. Fortunately, my PCP has not started asking this question.

StLPro2A
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StLPro2A

Do you really think the government doesn’t know who owns guns???? How many of you have filled out a Form 4473??? How many of you have Goggled anything about the gun you own or accessories for it???? Do you really think that your service provider, Google, Facebook, Twitter or any of the other foolish heartbeat wasting social sites don’t have algorithms that identify you as a gun person???? NSA has all of your communications. The FBI probably has all of the 4473s in some digital format. 4473s last forever. NICS checks are supposed to be destroyed after 30 days. YEAH,… Read more »

American Patriot
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American Patriot

StLPro2A
Where I’m at it doesn’t matter how many 4473’s I’ve filled out, all the guns I purchased New for Govt purposes I’ve sold them all at my last yard sale…..So now I’m gun free:)

Michael Gorback
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Michael Gorback

Correction to previous post. I was thinking of another issue.. ObamaCare did NOT require doctors to ask about guns and Medicare has NEVER required asking about guns. I’ve been practicing for 35 years and have never heard of this requirement.

Gryyphyn
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Gryyphyn

Thank you, Michael, for speaking up. I’m a SysAdmin for a hospital network and I am quite familiar with CMS and MediCare regulations beyond my interest in the shooting sports. In point of fact the ACA, commonly referred to as Obamacare and that thing which we all hate, quite specifically indicates that you CANNOT deny an insurance subscriber payment because of firearms ownership (https://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Legislation/LegislativeUpdate/downloads/PPACA.pdf pg. 3). Anyone who thinks CMS isn’t held to the standards of the ACA they worship is grossly deluded.

Michael Gorback
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Michael Gorback

Congress voted to repeal this ObamaCare rule in 2017. It’s not an issue. Bless the Republicans who did it.

florida john
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florida john

Here in Florida I recall legislation being passed banning physicians asking about firearms. It was challenged in court on many grounds including violation of Doctor’s Freedom of Speech”. I do not recall the current status of this issue here.

Sam W
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Sam W

Sadly that seems the only way to provide quality health care by legislation. Limiting what a doctor can do and forcing a patient’s input to bind the physician. Many treatments have been what most patients would consider malpractice. Ice pick lobotomy, blood letting, and shock therapy to name some. Vaccines are one I believe are malpractice.

tomcat
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tomcat

From the comments I read here I am thinking this gun question is a state thing because some have to answer a question and some do not. Those of you that have to answer a question might want to look into your state or local governments to see if they are the culprit. If it was Medicare everyone would be included.

James Higginbotham
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James Higginbotham

i once FIRED a doctor for asking me this.
my doctor now knows better to ask lol.
as i have often said IT’S NO ONE BUSINESS WHO HAS THE GUNS.

tomcat
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tomcat

I said this before but it didn’t get posted. I have four doctors that attend my various illness. I have never been asked, in person or on a form, about guns. In the last three months I have filled out health forms for two doctors, one was my primary and another was a specialist. I think the doctors mentioned are using medicare for an excuse to get the info from patients in order to pass it on to the AMA so they get a gold star.I don’t believe Medicare cares if you own guns or not. Besides, you coverage comes… Read more »

Alan
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Alan

Don’t become involved in a pissing match with bureaucrats. A simple NO, whether true of not suffices. Believe it or not, my primary care doctor never asked, and I do not recall the question ever coming up.

Larry Brickey
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Larry Brickey

Nor mine, at least til this point.

Sam W
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Sam W

This os a diagnostic tool for psychiatric reference. If the doctor puts down yes, the next psychiatric diagnostic manual will consider you a hazard to yourself and others. Gun confiscation by “big pharma”. You loose your guns by going to the doctor, they will eventually put down yes routinely even though you answer no. Then door to door will start.

American Patriot
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American Patriot

Sam W:
They will never go door to door because there would ultimately be dead bodies in the street, their isn’t enough LE to do that & some wouldn’t do that.
It would be much easier to freeze your bank accts, confiscate your kids from school & boot your car to make you turn in your weapons.

Nottinghill
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Nottinghill

You forget the “Boston Marathon Bombing”. They went door-to-door without any resistance and the end of it all. Yell USA, USA, USA!!! They were proud and happy to let LE into their homes. I’m holding on to faith that Mid-West and Southern America will utilize better judgement and stronger will to power.

Tionico
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Tionico

The government are on a “need to know” basis, and they do NOT “need to know” about my status in regards guns and a few other things. My first duty is to protect yself against unwarranted attack on any basis. Providing that information to those who have clearly demonstrated they could/will use it to my disadvantage is to compromise my own safety. I spend a fair amount of time in the Portland Oregon area…. but there are certain parts of that place I simply will not go. There is a proverb written out in the bible… a Father’s advice to… Read more »

Darrell
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Darrell

I do not know how this would work out. Ask the doc if you can get a copy of the questionnaire after it has been filled out. Be truthful or not with the gun question. Hire a lawyer, with other patients of the same doctors office if you can. Bring the copy of the questionnaire to lawyer and file a law suit against the doctors office for creating an illegal gun registry in violation of federal law. Hit them in the pocket book. If the doctors office administrators are smart. They should bring a class action against the government for… Read more »

Sam W
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Sam W

There is an extremely long list of people trying to go to one doctor near here. We all know he has more guns than we do!

Don Baker
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Don Baker

You can make a complaint to the licensing board against that physician’s license, especially if he refuses to treat you.

Jim Sidebottom
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Jim Sidebottom

I have MediCare and have not been asked this question for years. I had an annual physical in Feb, and was asked the MediCare questions, but gun ownership was not one of them.

Mr Joe
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Mr Joe

An X-Ray tech complimented my (mpty) shoulder a couple of days ago. The Tax office, in the jail blog had 2 County Deputies were doing screening at the front door. Left gun in car and forgot the extra mags. They held em for me till I left. I live in GA. now. In NH., they have a set of lockers just inside the door of the Court House where you lock it all up before you hit the magnetometer. You get a chit and put em back on before you leave the building. (Maine? Not so much.) Too many stories… Read more »

VT Patriot
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VT Patriot

When this is asked, it is not the time for smart a** answers. When the jews were given their free train rides, they weren’t asked any questions. Their friends and family ties were all that was needed to ‘assume’ they were jewish, therefore off to the trains.
To me, the only answer to me is NO. No explanation, no smart answers. Depending on where and who, anything else can be interpreted by the doctor based on his own beliefs.

Mark
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Mark

I recently went to my first appointment with a new physician. The gun question was in the section that included questions about alcohol and drug use. I answered “No” to all the questions because what I do in my private life is none of their concerns unless I am visibly being affected or “hurt” by any of them. They are using these to ferret out “mental health” issues which, in itself is the excuse now being given to mind-controlled shooters and terrorists, like the recent one in Toronto. If I had left it blank they would assume I have one.… Read more »

LongPurple
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LongPurple

I was always taught that telling the truth was the honorable and moral thing to do, and I still believe in that principle. Nevertheless, I find nothing “immoral” or “dishonorable” in denying access to the truth to someone who has no right to that truth. Indeed, many demand the truth from positions of authority, but wrongfully assume that their authority extends to obtaining information to which they have no right whatsoever. It is clear that a refusal to answer a question from this “authority” is taken as “proof” that you are attempting to hide some “guilt”, and as the article… Read more »

Easy Day
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Easy Day

It’s not a lie if the person asking isn’t entitled to the truth.

Wild Bill
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Wild Bill

@Easy Day, I do not know about it not being a lie, but you must ask yourself “Do I owe this person the truth? Is this person a federal agent?” Having said that, You should also know that lying to a federal agent is a felony 18 USC 1001, in which case you can either tell the truth or shut up.

Steve
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Steve

Since when is my family doctor, or any doctor considered a “federal agent”? If so, they should be required to disclose such. Also, I would be finding a new doctor.

Wild Bill
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Wild Bill

@Steve, I don’t believe that I have read, here, that a family doctor is a federal agent. I did not see that anyone declared, intimated, or even hinted that your family doctor, or any family doctor is a federal agent. So you can lie to your family doctor all that you like.
By the way, as an aside, and tangentially, lying to a federal agent is a felony. So in the course of deciding to whom you owe the truth, make sure that you are not talking to one of those.

Heed the Call-up
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Heed the Call-up

It may not be a gun registration scheme, but it is as close to it as the government is legally allowed. We know those answers go into a database. They can then find out who owns firearms. It would seem that the best answer is no, even when your morals and ethics tell you that is wrong – if you value your life and freedom. I would still answer yes because of my moral convictions, I believe in my rights and until they come knocking, I will fight for what is right. Congress needs to address this. The government should… Read more »

Long Purple
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Long Purple

I have just had a discussion with someone who thinks “surveys” and “polls” prove that gun ownership is declining in this country, because so many people answer “No” to the question of “Do you own a gun?” asked by a stranger over the telephone. He said no one has any reason to lie, since owning a gun is “as legal as drinking alcohol”. As the article mentioned, having Jewish relatives was not “illegal” either — for a while. It’s the same old totalitarian deception “Nothing to hide, nothing to fear”. My reaction to the notion that “gun ownership is legal,… Read more »

VT Patriot
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VT Patriot

Hah, when someone asks me “Do you own any guns”, my answer is ‘NO”. Haven’t figured out why anyone needs to know why my preferences and my phone # should ever be linked. So I guess I’m skewing the polls. ‘Do you support Hillary’ calls helped me to screw up the polling there too. LOL

Harvey Keck
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Harvey Keck

Not to elevate gun ownership to a religion (although there certainly is evidence of the persecution of gun owners), but it seems the Muslim principle of taqiyah can be adapted to this situation.
Taqiyah allows a Muslim to deny his faith, with no shame or guilt resulting from that denial, if telling the truth would endanger him. I see much the same situation in handling the question of gun ownership. We have the right to deny the truth to anyone who arrogates the power to wrongfully demand a truth from us that may be wrongfully used do us harm.

Matt
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Matt

I told one medical questionaire, Come in my house uninvited and find out.!!!

Ron
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Ron

To go along with the gun issue…’never’ say you are depressed!

Joseph P Martin
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Joseph P Martin

Lying in the USA has become not only necessary for your own safety and security, but is the standard. Corporations reward the biggest money makers and they are always the biggest liars who deceive investors and customers for profit. Liars are the ones who rise to the top. Need I use politicians as an example? In America, the truth may set you free, but it can also compromise your health, safety, financial status and freedom if you aren’t careful.

Nottinghill
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Nottinghill

I have to say that I agree with Mr. Farnam. The systems created in this nation do require you to lie to protect yourself. Unfortunately it does not just apply to gun ownership but also purchasing real estate, applying for employment and many other circumstances that details America’s blatant march towards Marxism.

Yon Hamil
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Yon Hamil

Doctor: Do you smoke? Me: No Doctor: Do you own guns? Me: No Simple as that, its not just the guns question.. if you tell them you smoke they will find TONS Of things “wrong with you” that are not. Ask me how I know, after going to a doc who knew I smoked 10 years ago and one who did not. The one who DID know I smoked was ready to diagnose me with cancer, the one who did not, gave a second look and I was fine, Scary stuff out there, it never hurts to lie to big… Read more »

Richard L
Guest
Richard L

Mr. Hamil, I have been through this line of bs and was told that my reading a Sports A Field magazine I the waiting area means: Yes. Neat

Wild Bill
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Wild Bill

@Richard, Good to know. One can not be too careful in a society where everyone watches everyone else and is ready to report, and the government keeps the records.

Bookoodinkydow
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Bookoodinkydow

When I go to the doctor, or anyplace with a waiting room, I try to leave a gun magazine ( the type that can’t be loaded ) among their normally crappy reading material. Yes, my name & address are removed!

Nnie
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Nnie

Find a new physician!