U.S.A. – -(Ammoland.com)- ATF was “not allowed to physically examine the interior of the weapons” recovered from the Las Vegas shooter’s hotel room, a new Freedom of Information Act production by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives reveals. The baffling revelation appears on page 335 of a response sent to attorney Stephen Stamboulieh as part of an ongoing production of documents responding to his FOIA request.
This leads to another problem for those intending to challenge any finalized rule ATF issues on banning “bump stock”-type devices.
“ATF did not disclose that they had not examined the firearms prior to promulgating the rule,” firearms designer and Historic Arms, LLC President Len Savage notes. “And now that the comment period is closed should they go forward with this rule under the Administrative Procedure Act that information can not be used in a court challenge because it was not submitted prior to closing of comments.
“DOJ is manipulating the APA to make sure that information will NOT be used to shoot down the rule,” Savage concludes. “Does ATF prosecute its firearms cases like it promulgates rules, without ever looking at the evidence? ATF is currently attempting to criminalize an industry and a large swath of the population and NEVER looked at any evidence? They claim they were ‘not allowed’? By whom?”
AmmoLand Shooting Sports News reported on the initial document production in April when Stamboulieh received a CD with 777 pages in four volumes within days of filing his request. Compare that to the response to an identical request by the Federal Bureau of Investigation: The Bureau essentially told him they didn’t keep the kinds of records he was asking for and didn’t have to give them to him if they did. And if he didn’t like it, he could appeal.
“Tons of stuff here,” Stamboulieh notes. “Some of it is a repeat of the previous production. There are also industry communications in here as well (NSSF, etc.) back and forth with ATF.”
Document releases provided to date include:
- February 2018 Production
- March 2018 Production
- April 2018 Production
- May 2018 Production
- June 2018 Production
- July 2018 Production (This is the one with the revelation about ATF not being allowed to examine weapon interiors, contained in an ATF report on weapons and ammunition recovered from the identified Las Vegas killer’s hotel room.)
Obviously “tons of stuff” is not hyperbole and much of it goes far afield of the original request. How some of it can be used to the benefit of gun owners remains to be seen. Much of it is probably of interest to the technically-minded and/or to lawyers, but some also offers more general insights into the players and machinations occurring behind the scenes.
For instance, in the June production, we find a Firearms Industry Associations “Open Discussion of Regulation and Policy Notes” recap, where NRA and NSSF, among others, offer views on a variety of “policy areas and legislation.” If nothing else, it gives a feel for what is being signaled as accepted and some of the priorities being pushed outside of public scrutiny.
The May production includes a letter to President Trump complaining about an approval process for silencers taking 14 months. The March production includes information more directly related to the request, press release remarks on the Las Vegas shootings drafted for the Special Agent in Charge of ATF’s San Francisco Field Division sent to the Deputy Assistant Director of ATF Field Operations – West for review.
And then there’s the “not allowed to inspect” revelation from the July production. Without further information, that’s unbelievable. And we’re just now finding this out only because of a FOIA action? Without apparently even knowing what was used, how could ATF then turn around and upend established rules for any reasons that aren’t political?
I’ve just scratched the surface on these documents and have not had time to even skim everything, let alone read, comprehend and analyze it. What you find that interests you, if anything, is for you to decide.
“This information demonstrates the agency’s interaction with various groups and needs to be public,” Stamboulieh said. “This release further shows how little even the ATF knows about the firearms involved in the Las Vegas Mandalay Bay incident and how the ATF’s attempt at redefining a bump stock as a machinegun will likely fail without legislative intervention.”
However, Stamboulieh commends the ATF for producing the documents at issue without necessity of litigation. In re the FBI’s recent denial of the FOIA appeal for documents from the Mandalay Bay shooting, he said he would be “filing suit shortly for those documents.”
In related developments, the Air Force agreed to pay costs and attorney fees for the lawsuit Stamboulieh filed in order to compel compliance with a Freedom of Information Act request for Texas church shooter court-martial records.
About David Codrea:
David Codrea is the winner of multiple journalist awards for investigating / defending the RKBA and a long-time gun owner rights advocate who defiantly challenges the folly of citizen disarmament.
In addition to being a field editor/columnist at GUNS Magazine and associate editor for Oath Keepers, he blogs at “The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance,” and posts on Twitter: @dcodrea and Facebook.
It’s not much of a strain for a thinking mind to redefine nearly every major newsworthy killing incident in this country. There is almost always enough holes in the “official” explanation to suspect, and with reason, a governmental cover-up. The Vegas mass shooting is certainly no exception; there are far too many unanswered questions here. The problem I see is that it’s human nature to take the path of least resistance and so most citizens, if concerned at all, choose to accept the “official” explanation. This course of action (or inaction as it were) is a self-preservation reaction inherent to… Read more »
Where is the common sense? Rambo with a .50 BMG could not have shot down hill 390 yards into a crowd with 10 minutes of random gun fire and taken out over 600 people. Any witness, and there were a lot saying there were more than one shooter was ignored, the supposed shooter is dead, and police had it all figured out before the bodies were cold. Then there is the recording of the shooting made by the taxi driver. All phones were taken by police and wiped clean. Bump stock?! All you supposed experts know you don’t need a… Read more »
You don’t need to see the innards.
Make darn sure firearm is unloaded and pointed in a safe direction.
Close bolt, click safety off.
Squeeze and hold trigger to dry fire.
Holding trigger, pull bolt open and release.
If the hammer falls/striker is released/bolt closes to dry fire again, the firearm is automatic. If it remains cocked, it’s semiauto.
Easy-peasy.
Someone is hiding something (a lot) about this case . It was closed way to soon with too many UNANSWERED questions .
One, someone told the BATF that they couldn’t examine the evidence??? That someone(s) had to be EXTREMELY high up, like presidential aide high up. Secondly, the only released the information AFTER the comment section was closed??? This seriously stinks. Stick like fish that been left out in the hot sun for a week stink.
Typically, Prosecutorial Jurisdiction defers to Local Law Enforcement. State Investigative Bureaus come next in the hierarchy, then FBI, ATF, and other Federal units. If that was the case in the Mandalay Bay shooting, then the Sheriff’s or Police Departments set the restrictions on any other investigation parameters that were employed. They can choose to listen too, solicited and unsolicited impressions/advice, and also the extent of examination of collected evidence. This really isn’t a surprise, but there should have been some serious questioning of ATF’s proposed Bump Stock Administrative changes before that plan was put in motion. If the weapons used… Read more »
The only thing you run into with firing with a bump stock as you might have a hiccup with around where you have to clear your round(s) and return to firing. You can put a belt-fed upper on an AR and run belt after belt with a bump stock. Firing with a bump stock does not make you tired. You hands cramping may slow you down. Your palms getting sweaty and losing your grip on your forward handguard may throw you off. But getting tired? I have burned up over 500 rounds consecutively and the only time I slowed down… Read more »
Whenever those dogs refuse a FOIA demand the signer of the refusal letter needs to be threatened with a lawsuit. Qualified immunity doesn’t apply when a government official is willfully violating the law, When reminded of this fact they often have a change of heart.
@ Bjarky, It’s obvious you are familiar with federal investigations. Your assertion fails to address many things…ATF flew their experts to LV and they were there next morning but were refused access. ATF did not receive the firearms from FBI until May (long after ATF began it’s rule making process under the APA). ATF to date has not released any report of technical examination (by you called them “qualified professional armorers”). I stand by my statement as it is a fact, not an opinion. The fact remains that DOJ/ATF went forward prior to examining any evidence. Ask yourself dear Bjarky… Read more »
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