BIDS Can Prove ‘Universal Background Checks’ are Really about Registration

NICS vs BIDS
If “universal background checks” are really just about stopping “prohibited persons” from buying guns, the antis would embrace BIDS and allay gun owner fears of registration.

U.S.A. – -(Ammoland.com)- “A dangerous gap in our federal gun laws lets people buy guns without passing a background check,” Giffords Law Center claims. “Under current law, unlicensed sellers—people who sell guns online, at gun shows, or anywhere else without a federal dealer’s license—can transfer firearms without having to run any background check whatsoever.

“Because of this loophole, domestic abusers, people with violent criminal records, and people prohibited for mental health reasons can easily buy guns from unlicensed sellers with no background check in most states,” the Gungrabby Gabby group elaborates. “In fact, an estimated 22% of US gun owners acquired their most recent firearm without a background check—which translates to millions of Americans acquiring millions of guns, no questions asked, each year.”

We could argue with their numbers and their claims, including how you’d stop such acquisitions, especially when no less a source than the Bureau of Justice Statistics tells us:

“An estimated 287,400 prisoners had possessed a firearm during their offense. Among these, more than half (56%) had either stolen it (6%), found it at the scene of the crime (7%), or obtained it off the street or from the underground market (43%). Most of the remainder (25%) had obtained it from a family member or friend, or as a gift. Seven percent had purchased it under their own name from a licensed firearm dealer.”

No one thinks that will change and that criminals will suddenly become “law-abiding” if new edicts are passed, do they? Still, the fact that the gun prohibitionists are mentioning the “millions of guns” already out there beyond government cognizance, corroborates another official assessment, this one from the DOJ’s National Institute of Justice in its “Summary of Select Firearm Violence Prevention Strategies”:

“Universal background checks … Effectiveness depends on the ability to reduce straw purchasing, requiring gun registration…”

That and fear of subsequent confiscation are the biggest objections most gun owners have to background checks, with a smaller subset of us “shall not be infringed” types objecting because those words are pretty clear. But what if there were a way to validate that a gun purchaser was not a “prohibited person” without creating a record of who he is or what he bought—if anything?

That’s what the Blind Identification Database System, or BIDS, is all about.

“In BIDS, the word ‘blind’ refers to the fact that the government cannot detect who is attempting to buy or has bought a firearm and thus cannot add this person's name to a registry of gun owners. Nor can gun dealers randomly view a list of persons who have been denied the right to buy, own, and use firearms.”

I’m not going to go into a Cliffs Notes version here. I’ve written about the subject extensively over the years and there’s enough information at the above link—and at my War on Guns blog—for those interested in learning more.

While there’s no denying that BIDS would greatly reduce the risk of confiscations, I still won’t endorse it either as a way to validate private sales or to “improve” existing transfers through dealers. It’s still a prior restraint. Even though it’s “better,” it’s still an infringement, and if millions more gun owners took that position and then got effectively involved, we wouldn't need to argue with each other over compromises in the first place.

If something like this passed and replaced the intrusive NICS that NRA, NSSF and the Republicans have demanded to “fix,” I’d still be urging noncompliance with prior restraints, and pointing out that anyone who can’t be trusted with a gun can’t be trusted without a custodian.

That said, here’s where BIDS could prove a very useful tool to expose the antis and what they’re really after: If the “commonsense gun safety law groups” truly only want background checks, why would they not promote a system like BIDS, which creates none of the potential registration dangers that create such strong gun owner opposition?

So the question for anti-gun groups pushing “background check” edicts is “Why not BIDS?” After all, they say the reason they want background checks is to stop dangerous people from buying guns.

None will embrace it, even though they have known about BIDS for years. Here’s proof. (And yes, the deliberately indifferent “gun rights groups” have known about it for even longer.)

BIDS provides an opportunity to expose the background check frauds for the liars they are, and to prove they are really after registration. Perhaps if more were aware of that, some of those Republicans, gun owners, and NRA members we’re “told” support background checks might get a clue as to how they’re being swindled out of their birthrights.


About David Codrea:David Codrea

David Codrea is the winner of multiple journalist awards for investigating/defending the RKBA and a long-time gun owner rights advocate who defiantly challenges the folly of citizen disarmament. He blogs at “The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance,” is a regularly featured contributor to Firearms News, and posts on Twitter: @dcodrea and Facebook.

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    moe mensaleGet OutUSMC0351GruntWillKenW Recent comment authors
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    Will
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    Will

    JOIN GOA ! THE ONLY NO-COMPROMISE GUN LOBBY IN WASHINGTON !

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    “Only criminals demand America’s guns under zero lawful authority to do so.”

    Am I reading this right? Why shouldn’t a FREE American citizen demand the very same?

    moe mensale
    Member
    moe mensale

    That quote isn’t in the article. Who are you quoting?

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    @David Codrea, yet another highly intelligent piece with extremely valuable information. I have to ask, are you by chance a consultant in any way for Gottlieb’s 2nd Amendment Foundation? It would appear the synergy would be spectacular in the preservation of Rights, liberties and freedoms in our time and well beyond, setting prescendence to the gun-grabbers to seek life else-where?

    JohnBored
    Member
    JohnBored

    OK. I went on line searching for firearms. Even the so-called private sellers went through a Federal Firearms Licensee. Therefore, if I had purchased one, I would still had to fill out a Form 4473 and pass a background check. I spent about 20 minutes and went to several cites that advertised “private sellers.” Not one was able to sell me a firearm without going through and FFL. There were some from out of state, that would have shipped to an FFL. Again, background check. I am so tired of the gungrabbers out right lying about this. We have got… Read more »

    hoss
    Member
    hoss

    The NRA is behind every Gun control law that is in place. Congrats you have helped to empower the very thing that we as gun owners fear the most, the anti gun left.
    Thanks. (sarcasm intended)

    cav2108
    Member
    cav2108

    They should pass a law to ban drug dealers from also selling guns. It should be one or the other, but not both. And you know that those drug dealers aren’t doing any background checks at all . . . . . They should ban that too. For the children.

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    How about we just go the cheaper route and keep the damn drug dealers in prison for life?

    JPM
    Member
    JPM

    How ’bout just shooting them and save the cost of prison?

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    Well first of all there’s just a slight chance, just a slight chance that their case can get overturned on appeal and during the waiting period of that you can always have them doing hard labor for the betterment of society.

    Mack
    Member
    Mack

    And what happens when there’s a SNAFU with either system – can there be liability if the transfer goes through even when it shouldn’t? The Fourth Circuit just issued its opinion on this Friday. “4th Circuit reverses decision in Dylann Roof gun background check lawsuit” * https://www.postandcourier.com/church_shooting/th-circuit-reverses-decision-in-dylann-roof-gun-background-check/article_c1e2a1cc-cb45-11e9-a6f7-3bd81910abe4.html [SNIP] The decision has nationwide implications, Wilkins added, as the first federal appeals court ruling of its kind. While the nation debates gun laws, the three-judge panel ruled that “federal employees charged with very serious responsibilities for background checks are not immune for their inaction,” Wilkins said. He added: “The federal government failed… Read more »

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    GOOD! Then there shouldn’t be any problem with Senator John Cornyn’s office going to the NICS CJIS division and start removing all of the dumbasses that tried to turn a 1973 misdemeanor into a post 9-11 felony?

    Get Out
    Member
    Get Out

    IMOA UBC’s will be used for registration of all firearms. I once believed in the fairytale that form 4473, BGC’s and pistol permits wouldn’t be kept on record. About 20 years or so ago I filled out the required paperwork from the sheriffs office for a pistol and one of the questions was when did you last purchase a handgun. I couldn’t remember the date since it had been over ten years or so. I marked it as unknown, but the deputy sheriff processing the form looked on the computer and gave me the date of my last purchase, make,… Read more »

    moe mensale
    Member
    moe mensale

    Can you provide a link for this YouTube video with Sheriff Clarke? It seems YouTube is hiding it because I can’t find it. Lots of other Sheriff Clarke vids though.

    There are always foreign troops in the US. Some are military liaisons at the UN HQ but the bulk of them are being trained by our own military. But should the UN ever decide to “invade” us, we’ll just cut the funding since we provide the bulk of it and they’ll all go home.

    Mike Adams, aka Health Ranger, aka Natural News. Great for a laugh!

    Gotta go walk the dogs now.

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    … and then you took the necessary steps to put together a Coalition in your county to expunge that database from the Sheriff’s Department, right?

    Get Out
    Member
    Get Out

    Voted against the sheriff when his re-election came around. Even after his replacement I doubt the database is was expunged and now even private sales for handguns were added to the mix a few years ago.

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    If I recollect this is the same information I’ve been seeing and hearing across the country for the last 20 years. In the military is generally a practice to let your troops sleep at 50% Manpower because when the shooting starts the others will wake up and join.

    moe mensale
    Member
    moe mensale

    It appears that the three items I previously responded to have been deleted from the OP. I guess that’s for the best because they were, well, really, really dumb.

    Tionico
    Member
    Tionico

    the Mother May I Carry a Handgun Card is not, in most states, registration. In my state, and most others, that Mother May I Card is ONLY a government Yes You May carry a concealed handgun in public. There is no list, and no means of creating one, detailing WHICH handguns a holder might own. On the other hand in some places, California for certain, that Card must list by make model serial number up to three, and no more, handguns that can lawfully be carried under that Card. Caught with one not on the list, BOOM. Buy a new… Read more »

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @USA, I know people who got a concealed carry permit to carry knives, brass knuckles and a few other oddities.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @USA, you can where I live.

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    Florida issues a “Concealed.WEAPON OR FIREARM” permit. Look closely at the State Reciprocity lists and the sub-sections very closely.

    KenW
    Member
    KenW

    Yes, FL is a CWL. When we went to Louisiana some years back even tough I knew it was probably not an issue, but my FL permit was good in AL, MI, and LA. But Mississippi is handgun only.

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    @KenW, you might want to double-check the subset for the Michigan part of your CWL. Last I checked, Michigan doesn’t allow Florida permit carriers to carry weapons in Michigan. Firearms yes, weapons no.

    Will
    Member
    Will

    Them som bitches in Fl.issue their CWP through the damn Agriculture Dept. ! That’s the truth too !

    moe mensale
    Member
    moe mensale

    Because the Agriculture Commissioner is an elected office. The license used to be issued by the State Dept until it became an appointed office.

    Tionico
    Member
    Tionico

    quote: In fact, an estimated 22% of US gun owners acquired their most recent firearm without a background check—which translates to millions of Americans acquiring millions of guns, no questions asked, each year. Whose “estimate”? basis? Citation? And a big fa SO WHAT. Of that 22% what portion are between relatives, long time friends who know each other well, or at a gun show where only memebers of the hosting club can PURCHASE, and membership requires eitiher a new background chek or a current Mother May I Carry a Handgun card, which involves a BGC far more thorough than NICS… Read more »

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    @Tionoco?

    “Or at a gun show where only HOSTING MEMBERS can purchase.”?

    What planet are you on? ANYBODY can purchase at a gun show. It’a called, FREEDOM, LIBERTY and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Get used to it! It’s making a comeback!

    moe mensale
    Member
    moe mensale

    “ANYBODY can purchase at a gun show.”

    As long as they pass the background check that all FFL’s are required to perform at any gun show.

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    @moe mensale, No. If you are either 18 or 21, depending on state, you can purchase all the guns you can afford from private dealers. It’s called, freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Get used to it. It’s making a comeback!

    moe mensale
    Member
    moe mensale

    Most gun shows now allow only FFLs to sell their items. Private sales at gun shows are almost non-existent today.

    Larry
    Member
    Larry

    “So the question for anti-gun groups pushing “background check” edicts is “Why not BIDS?” After all, they say the reason they want background checks is to stop dangerous people from buying guns.”

    For the same reason they absolutely refused to excuse people who already owned a gun from their “cool-off waiting periods.” Because they’re liars.

    jack mac
    Member
    jack mac

    Any registration will fall into the wrong hands, the registration present is already in the wrong hands. Prohibited persons are, through law, a de facto underclass within our free society. An underclass consisting of otherwise free citizens. We should have never allowed our government the power to deny rights to any free citizen. Removing freedom by due process incarceration and execution, yes, denying rights to the free, no. The existence of this underclass has allowed our government to have everybody prove that they are not members of it, through background checks. It is becoming easier to be degraded into the… Read more »

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    Rolling the proverbial, “shit” back UP HILL can only be done with a complacent citizenry turns off their Sports channel or whatever other distractions that allow in their lives to deflect them from doing their citizen duty of maintaining their government, gets up off of their dead fat asses and pitches in to do so

    Yet, public executions of convicted felons still remains to be a, “non-deterant”?

    JPM
    Member
    JPM

    The death penalty was never intended to be a crime deterrent to the public, only to the recipient and it was 100% effective at that level. Removing those individuals permanently from society who demonstrated their inability or refusal to conform to the law of the land. The executed all never again committed a crime again.

    Vern
    Member
    Vern

    One has to wonder if those politicians private armies full auto weapons are registered? And why do those politicians need to have taxpayer paid armed escorts? If the American people are so unsafe for these politicians to be around these politicians should be smart enough to figure that they, themselves, might be the reason they feel unsafe. If the politicians can’t trust the people who put them in office, why should the American people put them there in the first place. They are to safe guard our trust, instead, they impose laws that prove they don’t trust the law abiding… Read more »

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    ” When the people fear the government there is tyranny when the government fears the people there is Liberty.”

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    Last I,knew, they, (firearms) carried are from the government Armory or Quantico, VA where the USMC builds and maintains many of the firearms?

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    If the government fears the people that means the people are actually doing their job as citizens in maintaining their government.

    CaptainKerosene
    Member
    CaptainKerosene

    Violence and crime go with recreational drug pushers. They also deal in firearms stolen from train freight cars, police cars, homes and other legal gun owners. If an addict doesn’t have the money to buy drugs they will steal a gun and either trade it for a small bag of what they want or rob a liquor store to get a little dope. The majority of street violence is turf wars to protect their drug trade The politicians don’t want to be accused of being “non-PC” BUT THEY “MUST DO SOMETHING!” Gun laws seem easy. That they don’t work doesn’t… Read more »

    RayJN
    Member
    RayJN

    The 2 worst statements:
    I’m from the government and here to help and we must do SOMETHING!

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    “Because we’re the government and we said so!”

    CaptainKerosene
    Member
    CaptainKerosene

    Fifty-sixty years ago I worked in a sporting gods store in Springfield, Illinois. At that time Illinois and Kansas had nearly identical gun laws and use of force laws The law made it illegal in Illinois to give, sell or loan a gun to a criminal. The Boss was worried because if a person he did not personally know came in to buy a gun he had zero way to comply with the law. Plus he was worried that if he didn’t sell a gun to somebody that “looked” shady he could be sued for some discrimination charge. The State… Read more »

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    Where we have been done. It said it is the Citizen’s responsibility and duty to arm themselves. It appears that I crossed our nation people fear freedom and liberty more than they do their government. As for the assholes that abuse the freedom and liberty of others? Those are the ones that need to be put down, HARD and without prejudice!

    Miket
    Member
    Miket

    Here in NJ a identification card is required purchase a long gun. The same paperwork is required to purchase a handgun and must be filled out for each and every handgun purchased. There isn’t one good reason why this is necessary except that they want to make it difficult to purchase one. The common sense gun laws they claim they want is just pure BS.

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    @Miket, it’s the responsibility and the duty of the citizens to challenge what is considered to be “common sense” and to actively and aggressively challenge there elected or appointed officials at every angle prior to these laws being passed. To piss and moan on the sidelines after the fact means that you didn’t do a damn thing to preserve the rights freedom and liberty that you were “handed”, (with the exception of our military personnel and law enforcement.) be responsible for the preservation of! So, if you didn’t do anything along the way to do so, maybe it’s time you… Read more »

    Will
    Member
    Will

    Just use your CCW to purchase a long gun.

    KenW
    Member
    KenW

    This statement is so misleading, or an intentional lie, or both. “Under current law, unlicensed sellers—people who sell guns online, at gun shows, or anywhere else without a federal dealer’s license—can transfer firearms without having to run any background check whatsoever.” “unlicensed sellers” its not illegal to sell your own guns. “People who sell guns online” legally have to send their sale to a licensed FFL dealer to do a transfer, or to a C & R. “at gun shows” I’ve been to many gun shows and have never been to one where there was not LEO presence. At larger… Read more »

    Get Out
    Member
    Get Out

    The anti-gunners always spew the “get guns online” lie mantra every time they can because no one challenges these liars to buy a firearm from any legal online source.

    “The most significant law regarding gun purchasing is administered by the federal government. US federal law requires that all guns purchased online must be shipped only to a holder of a Federal Firearms License.”
    https://gun.laws.com/purchasing-guns/online-purchasing

    Bowserb46
    Member
    Bowserb46

    The online gun sales lie is carefully used, so that it is never in a situation where it can be disputed. The lie that can’t be challenged is the number one tool of the left, and it’s made so effective by the mainstream media’s cooperation and support. A legitimate journalist confronted with that known “online sales” lie, would ask the question, how is that done: “I’m told and seen that an online purchase must be shipped to an FFL, who will run the NICS background check. Can you show me a site that will ship a purchased gun directly to… Read more »

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    “at gun shows” I’ve been to many gun shows and have never been to one where there was not LEO presence. At larger venues BATFE was also there. So I have serious doubts about nefarious activity at gun shows.” The reason there are so many uniformed LEO’s that gun shows is because we usually allow ALL Uniformed LEOs and active duty military personnel in for free! They aren’t their policing the purchases and sales Firearms did there to find a good deal, stock up and resupply just like anybody else. It is societso practice that allows the, “Us and Them”… Read more »

    KenW
    Member
    KenW

    No, I did not state that they (LEO) were there in an official capacity, although in some instances they are, but the mere presence of LEO at a gun show would help to keep the unsavory from trying to buy a gun there.

    The people I knew would never sell to a person that seemed suspicious, or without proper ID. I had a person who knew me from our gun club, maybe not by name, and he asked for ID.

    Most venders a gun shows are in fact FFL’s
    Who checks the gun upon entry at Jacksonville Fairgrounds the PD.

    moe mensale
    Member
    moe mensale

    “The reason there are so many uniformed LEO’s that gun shows is because we usually allow ALL Uniformed LEOs … in for free! They aren’t their policing the purchases and sales Firearms did there to find a good deal, stock up and resupply just like anybody else.”

    What fantasy world do you live in? Uniformed – and undercover – cops are at gun shows to enforce whatever laws and rules the local government, the venue owner and the show producer want enforced.

    Huapakechi
    Member
    Huapakechi

    What are they willing to give up in return? A repeal of nfa 1934 and all subsequent federal laws infringing on the right to keep an bear arms? How about national reciprocity?
    Want to bet that they won’t even consider negotiating anything but the eventual elimination of the Second Amendment and all other rights under the Constitution?

    24and7
    Member
    24and7

    The 4473 for is registration..The computer and phone in checks your ffl does is registration…They are not so much concerned with the serial number at that point…They have it when they need it..They are concerned with the amount of guns you buy and what type weapon each individual has..They list all purchases under your social security number (optional), or your name and date of birth or your unique personal identification number (upin).. It’s all a part of data they keep and maintain on you as an individual.. They have us by the short and curlies..

    USMC0351Grunt
    Member

    That is highly and absolutely incorrect! All an FFL does with the 4473’a is to use that form as a worksheet to plug the information into the NICS background check system to see if the prospective purchaser is eligible to purchase a firearm. It doesn’t say diddly or squat about what kind of a firearm you’re buying or serial numbers of the firearm at all! All the NICS/CJIS system does is check your background to find out if your eligible to purchase a firearm then the FFL either gets a PROCEED, HOLD or DENY the TRANSFER. The system has no… Read more »

    KenW
    Member
    KenW

    The 4473 has the type of firearm, make, and serial number on it. BG maybe not, at least not here in FL. FL does not use NICS, FLDE does the BG in FL and it pre-dates the Federal BG.

    moe mensale
    Member
    moe mensale

    The firearm’s description is included on page 3 of the 4473. The seller completes it after the background check is completed. ATF has access to any 4473 it wants at the FFL’s location. They have been known to copy or photo them. If the FFL goes out of business, all its 4473s are sent to the ATF.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    So can I.
    If background checks are about the person, why do they need the information of the firearm?
    Because it’s about registrations, ask anyone with an AA-12.

    Laddyboy
    Member
    Laddyboy

    @JMR; Sorry to say, I never heard about an AA- 12. What is it and who is responsible to report?

    Get Out
    Member
    Get Out

    Probably refers to this shotgun.
    The Auto Assault-12, originally designed and known as the Atchisson Assault Shotgun, is a shotgun developed in 1972 by Maxwell Atchisson.

    RayJN
    Member
    RayJN

    It is a full auto 12 Ga shotgun, with up to 32 round magazine. Very little recoil. Was featured on Future Weapons several years ago. I do not believe that it is even available as class 3.

    JMR
    Member
    JMR

    @Laddyboy, it was originally a Fully automatic twelve gauge shotgun (popularized in Call of Duty and some movie with Sylvester Stallone I forget) a semi-auto variant was announced last year and a few were sold this year.
    The ATF just came out with a new letter this week that it is still prohibited because even though it is a semi-automatic (in civilian form) it is to easily converted into a Fully automatic version. So the ATF is going around and confiscating them from shops and owners.

    Gene Ralno
    Member
    Gene Ralno

    A facet of background checks for private transfers is many simply won’t happen. First, so few privately owned guns are sold to nuts, felons, terrorists and illegal aliens, the impact of such a law is infinitesimal. Secondly, the democrats forgot to ask what private owners would do with their used guns under such requirements. Fact is, most will simply keep their old guns in lieu of conducting background checks on all potential buyers. And of course they’ll buy new ones anyway. And anyone with more brain cells than teeth knows, due to the inconvenience and expense, personal collections will grow.… Read more »

    Bowserb46
    Member
    Bowserb46

    Good point, Gene, but not 100%. Many people simply trade in guns, since many gun stores sell both new and used. Yes there is a $$ drawback to trading in vs selling outright, just like with anything you buy at retail and trade in a wholesale. I personally have done both. I sold to a friend I knew well. Other times, rather than list an item for sale, I preferred to take the loss and get only trade in value. Since I can’t personally run a NICS check, I’d rather not who I sold a gun to. Let the dealer… Read more »

    Knute
    Member
    Knute

    Never have I caught him making a mistake. I don’t know how he does it. The man either isn’t human, or he quintuple checks ever word he writes.

    Bowserb46
    Member
    Bowserb46

    I’ve heard him a few times on the radio/podcast of Armed American Radio. Good speaker.

    Tionico
    Member
    Tionico

    Ive heard him speak live, no notes. Same thing.

    Glad he’s on OUR side…..