ATF Wants Customer Records From Dealers Selling FRT Triggers

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ORLANDO, FL -(Ammoland.com)- The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) has visited another set of merchants of forced reset triggers.

On Friday, April 1st, 2022, the ATF visited several forced reset triggers retailers over the companies selling the Rare Breed Triggers FRT-15. This time the ATF requested customer records of the purchasers of the triggers. The ATF did not have a court order to take possession of the documents, so the agents left empty-handed. None of the three (3) retailers AmmoLand News spoke to on background gave up the records. AmmoLand News is not aware and does not believe any individual gun owners have been visited over any FRT triggers.

Another curiosity was that the ATF only wanted sales records for the period after the Bureau sent an open letter to federally licensed firearms dealers (FFLs) stating that some FRT triggers were machine guns.

The ATF did not specify in the letter what triggers the agency considered to be machine guns but did threaten to charge the sellers with violating the National Firearms Act (NFA).

These visits came on the heels of the ATF visiting one of the vendors that manufacture the FRT-15 for Rare Breed Triggers. Earlier in the year, the law enforcement agency also visited three locations owned by Big Daddy Enterprises and confiscated all Rare Breed FRT-15 and Wide Open Enterprises Wide Open Triggers that the company had on hand.

The Forced Reset Triggers Saga

Rare Breed Triggers FRT-15 Forced Reset
Rare Breed Triggers FRT-15 Forced Reset IMG rarebreedtriggers.com

The controversy around forced reset triggers started when Rare Breed Triggers was served with a “cease and desist” notice by the ATF over the FRT-15. The agency tested and determined that the trigger converts a semi-automatic AR-15 style firearm into a “machine gun”. The ATF accused the trigger of being a type of drop-in auto sear. According to federal regulations, any device that converts a firearm into a machine gun will be considered a machine gun itself.

The ATF examiner determined the FRT-15 was a machine gun by equipping an AR-15 with the trigger. The ATF employee then used a zip tie to hold back the trigger. According to the report, the rifle continued to fire more than one shot. A force reset trigger works by the bolt pushing the trigger forward, resetting the trigger allowing for faster shots. Since a zip tie is flexible, many advocates wondered if the trigger was reset and, due to the elasticity of the zip tie, pulled the trigger again.

Rare Breed then sued the ATF over the determination asking the courts for a preliminary injunction. Rare Breed was NOT granted a preliminary injunction but then pursued a permanent injunction. Due to a missed deadline, the court case was dismissed without prejudice, meaning that Rare Breed can refile, which the company vowed to do. The company has so far refused to comply with the “cease and desist” letter.

The ATF recently sent out a law enforcement notice to police departments around the country instructing officers how to identify the embattled triggers. The letter called the triggers machine guns. The ATF then followed it up with the aforementioned open letter to FFLs.

TAC CON 3MR is or was [it may not be produced anymore] the only forced reset trigger on the market with an opinion letter declaring it legal. Some analysts believe that this trigger was the one that the ATF is currently not classifying as a machine gun since the ATF would have to issue a new opinion letter. Other companies used the opinions of outside consultants and the original letter as evidence that FRTs are legal.

Rare Breed Triggers has been made aware of the visits, but company President Lawrence DeMonico did not return AmmoLand News’s request for comment.

If you have been visited about an FRT please drop us a line to our encrypted mailbox at [email protected]. We will guarantee your anonymity.

(U/LES/TAX) Forced Reset Triggers (FRTs) ATF Document Jan 13, 2022


About John Crump

John is an NRA instructor and a constitutional activist. John has written about firearms, interviewed people of all walks of life, and on the Constitution. John lives in Northern Virginia with his wife and sons and can be followed on Twitter at @crumpyss, or at www.crumpy.com.

John Crump

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StLPro2A

Unless the FRTs were sold via mail/internet requiring a ship to address, why would a retailer have records identifying the purchaser? When sold, FRTs were not classified as NFA/CGA items requiring registration/NICS paperwork. Why should a retailer be that stupid in assisting ATF??? There should only have been an anonymous receipt for accounting purposes…..revenue against COGS. Hurry like a bunny, before ATF arrives, sell all your FRT inventory via anonymous receipt, damn forgot to date that receipt again, for pennies on COGS dollar. The loss can be written off on taxes as a business loss. A confiscated contraband item probably… Read more »

Finnky

If I read that atf letter right, it said some forced reset triggers are machine guns. While it did not specify brands or models – I thought they said that presence or lack of disconnector was the distinguishing feature. Have not examined any FRT, but understood FRT-15 has a standard disconnector which functions in the ordinary way. It holds hammer while trigger is held back and releases as part of reset. Only difference being that guns action pushes trigger forward as bolt closes. If the above is correct – than how is AFT’s targeting FRT-15 triggers in any way consistent… Read more »

Don

The comment about an elastic zip tie seems odd. I have never seen one that wasn’t rigid dense plastic.

DIYinSTL

Elastic by the definition in physics; think springy. The flexible (not rigid) loop of a closed zip tie will remain nearly round when exerting enough force to ‘function’ a trigger. A ‘force reset’ will deform the circle into an oval and the springiness of the zip tie will bring it back to a round shape and thus re-function the trigger. The ATF might as well have epoxied a spring inside the trigger guard to push the trigger back every time the bolt closed. Either way, it’s a runaway once the bolt is closed.

Terry

They probably went through a thousand zip ties until they got the desired effect.

swmft

they have them specially made

StLPro2A

Your standard plastic zip tie experience is the ATF rubber band experience, and never the twain or reality shall meet. BREAKING NEWS: Next ATF cease and desist letter is anticipated to go to manufacturers/retailers of rubber bands, Levi Strauss & Company, and mothers of children with lightning fast trigger fingers. Wrangler and Carhart supply chains not expected to be included due to disconnector belt loop design . FURTHER BREAKING NEWS: Post ATF cease and desist letter receipt, Ole Grandma Miculek’s dog packed his Purina Chow, bone, bowl, and toys, opting out in lieu of a Level IV vest and Kevlar… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by StLPro2A
DDS

How does “pay to play” jive with “shall not be infringed?”

Do you pay to go to the religious institution of your choice?

Do you pay to vote for the candidate of your choice?

Why should you have to pay to select the firearm of your choice?

Wild Bill

No, machine guns are not illegal, according to current regulations! You had me going … I almost thought that you knew what you were talking about.

Wild Bill

I did not declare it. You just have to pay the tax. Lots of people, here, have them. This is from your own link: Restrictions on Owning a Machine GunFor private citizens, there are several facets to legally owning a machine gun. For one, you are only eligible to own a fully automatic machine gun (or any gun) if you are not a “prohibited person” by law. Some of the things that will classify you as a prohibited person include the following: People convicted of a crime that is punishable by more than one year in prison Felons Fugitives Unlawful… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Wild Bill
john

How many privately owned machine guns are in the US?
There are strict controls on the transfer of machine guns in the U.S. but there are still about 630,000 legally owned fully-automatic weapons in the country.Dec 21, 2018

Wild Bill

Wow, those could come in handy if the Chinese come over here!

john

There is another post awaiting approval that tells more on the subject of owning machine guns Really it is all about the money if you pass the requirements needed.

Wild Bill

I look forward to reading it. Yes, rare commodities are expensive.

Finnky

Check history on how that number has changed over the years. It keeps going up! ”The only ones” are allowed new machine guns. Obvious conclusion is that <~250k are in hands of free individuals which LEO holds the remainder. Note this is almost one machine gun for every other cop. Listening to Barney the only purpose of a machine gun is to burn ammo quickly – thus cops are looking for excuses to burn up tax payers’ dollars. According to typical antis the sole purpose for machine guns is to indiscriminately kill as many people as possible, as quickly as… Read more »

Roland T. Gunner

Seriously asking, are post-86 samples and agency owned machineguns included in the “regular” firearms registry? Cause that does inflate the numbers.

Roland T. Gunner

That is a much higher number than I remember ever seeing. I thought 250,000 was the approx number I have seen bandied about. But good to know my club is much more inclusive.

john

The internet has many uses answers are out there for those who have questions. Happy to help have wonderful evening gentleman. So how does anyone come to own one of these guns? Automatic weapons are governed by legislation from a bygone era, unfamiliar to many, one of the last vestiges of stringent federal gun control. Specifically, the 1934 National Firearms Act (NFA), which was prompted by rampant gangland violence often perpetrated by the likes of Al Capone with the Thompson submachine gun. You may know the Thompson by its nickname, the “Tommy gun”, known for its distinctive round drum magazine.… Read more »

Don

Under federal law machine guns are not illegal, they are regulated. Do you want to legally own a machine gun, step up and pay the price. A select-fire AR15-type rifle is $30,000. Plus sales tax and $200 FET. If you can legally own a 10-22 or a 1911A1, you can legally own a machine gun. The general public can own one on a form 4 transfer.

Finnky

So a perfect example of economic inequality. I’d bet this economic limitation on human rights also results in racial inequality. Maybe we can talk BLM into expanding to BRM (Black Rights Matter) – then they can assemble a massive campaign fighting to rescind NFA as a relic of “white privilege.

Just because you disagree with someone on some topics, does not mean you cannot work together on other topics. Maybe this could help redirect that organization away from fiery-but-peaceful protests toward less destructive and quietly-peaceful methods – which would be a huge win-win.

3%er

Theres no specific FFL to purchase to sell/own machine guns. You said that same ridiculous nonsense earlier. It’s so obvious you really don’t know about anything that’s firearm related.

Wild Bill

You are correct, sir.

I read his link. Everyone should take a look at it because none of the ” …correct and proper FFL that allows you to legally own them, … ” language in there that he claims.

Finnky

If one has an FFL (though not C&R), one can pay annual SOT (special occupation tax) which allows FFL to possess or manufacture (depending on type of FFL/SOT) modern machine guns and other NFA items. If I’m not mistaken manufacture and possession is supposed to be for either experimental/research purposes or for sale to military or LEO. I believe SOT costs at least $5k/year on top of other FFL requirements and you cannot keep inventory when SOT expires. While it won’t go as far as it used to, $5k/year can’t still buy a significant amount of ammo. 🙂 These licenses… Read more »

Wild Bill

You should be embarrassed. There is no “… correct and proper FFL that allows you to legally own them, …” language in the statute or the linked article. Here is the verbiage: Restrictions on Owning a Machine GunFor private citizens, there are several facets to legally owning a machine gun. For one, you are only eligible to own a fully automatic machine gun (or any gun) if you are not a “prohibited person” by law. Some of the things that will classify you as a prohibited person include the following: People convicted of a crime that is punishable by more… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Wild Bill
Russn8r

Barney Fife?

Orion

there has never been an ffl requirement to own a select fire gun or any class 3 device. none. all transfers must go through an ffl dealer with the appropriate license but to simply own a machine gun the regs have not changed, all it takes is a clean background and $$$ for your investment piece.

Darkman

ATF: We would like to see your sales records for any FRT Triggers you have sold.
Answer: Well you see we were moving all our records to a new storage facility across the river and someone forgot to put the plug in the boat. Well about halfway across the river the boat started taking on water and the motor died. Sorry to say all those records were in cardboard file boxes and are sitting on the bottom of the river somewhere. We managed to get the boat back, but there was no sign of the file boxes.

Oldman

Them boating accidents are the Worst///////////

StLPro2A

NOW HEAR THIS: Category 5 Storm warning posted. All ATF agents shall board the duck boats to the left. That is all. Bon voyage.

Last edited 1 month ago by StLPro2A
Wild Bill

So … I should not say that “I lost them in a poker game!” for record! Note to self: poker game not good for records…
Good morning everybody!

Last edited 1 month ago by Wild Bill
Wild Bill

Tough crowd, today.

MP71

Gee Mr. AFT, somebody accidentally set a huge magnet down next to the hard drive that held all of our sales records.

Terry

The dog ate mine.

swmft

there was a big forest fire and the barn they were in burned, lost all our records even the 4473s

THE-TAKEDOWN

These triggers are extremely proficient. We are getting nothing but a whole bunch of extra “bans” in washington state

SGT_Wombat

Are these triggers serialized? DO you have to fill out a 4473 to get one? How does the ATF expect to know what was sold? They should sell them under a generic item line: Accessories

Marshall Tito

ATF says they used a cabe tie to hold the trigger and the FRT continued to fire. Maybe a rubber band but a cable tie seems much too rigid. Could it be another lie from ATF?

Grinning Dragon

Yes, the BATFe(ARBF) is lying here. Holding the trigger down too hard when using an FRT will only fire once and the hammer cannot get cocked and the bolt won’t cycle, there is a trick to it.
Video explaining https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU2dNE1CKXc

Last edited 1 month ago by Grinning Dragon
Wild Bill

Typical government agency advice. These guys can not even do wrong … right.

Wild Bill

I watched the vid. I gotta get me one of those!

Wild Bill

Or … maybe our country could just return to its, still valid, Constitution.

TEX

Purchase the correct FFL? What does that mean? A full auto rifle should cost no more that a semi. You should know that! Nothing to do with pay to play.

jukk0u

No, Barney. As the name implies the triggers rest for the next pull. You know that.

Oldman

I think you should call Fred and see if you can get some support on this one….Maybe Betty could bring you back to your senses?

Wild Bill

In our system, you or any jerk bureaucrat can not just declare some specious implication of the definition. They are bound by the words of the statute and the intent of Congress.

RiffRaff1975

You know nothing of how this trigger works, check out the below and watch. It only allows 1 round to fire per single function of the trigger. The locking block prevents the trigger from being pulled again until its reset and the bolt is closed.

https://vimeo.com/486488684

Last edited 1 month ago by RiffRaff1975
Roland T. Gunner

A full auto rifle SHOULD cost no more than a semi; but I guarantee you it does. Much more.

Montana454Casull

The manufacturers of trigger and other components the BATF has found to be a machine gun need to get thier lawyers to all get together and send cease and desist letters to the BATF telling them they are about to be sued in a classified action law suit by all gun parts manufacturers and they will be tied up in court for the duration of thier lives litigating all these parts and weather they consist of or make a machine gun . Nothing like a lawsuit to tie these clowns hands for an extended period . A page out of… Read more »

Grinning Dragon

NOPE!
These triggers are nothing more than a twist on bump firing, unless you are going to sit there and lecture us that an index finger is now a machine gun?
The differences between these triggers and a full auto/3rd burst cam is the addition of a 2nd sear and a tail hook on the hammer in the M4/16 platform. FRT lack these features.

Grinning Dragon

I’ve noticed he doesn’t have a clue. I hope that someone who comes across this post will see what I posted and take the chance to do a search on the difference, even though I did post a very cliff-notes version.

Wild Bill

By your own writing there is only one firing per pull, the other is upon release. Just like some shotguns have a fire on release trigger. I am beginning to doubt your experience.

Ansel Hazen

if I actually wanted a simulated machine gun, but I have no use for one.”

Well you sir will probably not be someone that is tolerated for long if things go sideways.

Wild Bill

The threat is not each other. If you want us to support your Right to own shotguns, then quid pro quo, you need to support our Right to own rapid fire rifles. Yes, even fully automatic firearms. We need your support, and you need our support
The marxists in our government want us to splinter and be weak. Let’s not fall for it.

Grinning Dragon

First you say it sends two rounds on pull, then contradict yourself by further clarifying send on pull then send on release. It is still sending one round per function, it matters not the position of the trigger in maintaining the function of semi-auto. Other than that, you are telling me information I am fully aware in knowing in regards to FRT type triggers. I myself am running a Geissele Automatics rapid fire trigger in one of my ARs and can achieve rapid fire from a 2 stage trigger due to it’s very short break and reset. It’s all bump… Read more »

DDS

Another addition to our collection of “the Definition of the Week” on so called “assault weapons.”

Wild Bill

The term “assault weapon” is a propaganda term. It is an expansion of the term assault rifle. Assault rifle was a propaganda term when Hitler first used it, and using either says more about the writer than about the subject matter. I am beginning to think that you are an anti-firearms civil rights agitprop.

Wild Bill

Oh, a beginning collector. Don’t be fooled by all that anti-Second Amendment rhetoric.

Wild Bill

They will probably just sell them for the cash, and then party.

Finnky

More likely turn them over to police for destruction, as they have no use for “the nasty things.”

Wild Bill

My lovely wife and I were both in the U.S. Army, and often deployed to different parts of the world. This kind of high speed, low drag life did not provide the luxury of children.
Our “kids” were the young men and women of our respective commands.

3%er

Insulting Wild Bill is one thing but when you insult his wife you have crossed the line. Go away.

Wild Bill

She was aware the Bronze Star for her actions when the green zone was mortared.
I’ll not talk to that one again.

Last edited 1 month ago by Wild Bill
Ansel Hazen

Pics or I call BS.

Wild Bill

I’d like to see those Remingtons.

Wild Bill

“… 1 full set, and at least one of every Remington autoloader ever made and several customs that Remington …”

Last edited 1 month ago by Wild Bill
3%er

I’m sure that Barney is taking pictures of that order right now and they will be showing up momentarily.

Wild Bill

Your insult pattern is suspiciously like someone else that left here in disgrace. Have you ever used a different alias on Ammoland?
Oh, and Nimrod should be capitalized because he was one of the post diluvial “mighty men”. His name is an insult today because he opposed God and was made foolish by God.
The moral of this biblical story is that each of our abilities is a gift from God that God can revoke at any time.

Wild Bill

Oh, one of those kind of people.

Dasher_Dork

You keep saying “one round per trigger pull” but the definition per the National Firearms Act does not say “pull” anywhere in its definition of a machinegun. It reads “Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger” All binary and FRT triggers fire one round per function of the trigger and are NOT machineguns by definition. That’s why the Tac-Con 3MR Forced Reset Trigger was allowed by the ATF and has a legal determination letter signed by Earl… Read more »

Wild Bill

Excellent explanation! How difficult is it to install in a Militia standard rifle? Would I need special tools or a whole entire gunsmith?

Last edited 1 month ago by Wild Bill
Cooter

Abolish the ATF the are illegal anyway and abolish career criminal politicians getting filthy rich stealing from the American taxpayers time to stand together and fight for our rights why do you think they try so hard to keep us all divided with the race crap our government is trying to push so hard they know that if we stand together and fight they don’t have a chance

musicman44mag

Buy them with cash and you don’t need ID and you didn’t need ID to buy them before ATF changed its definition and made what is legal, illegal, making good people felons if you don’t turn one in, I’m sure. If you used a credit card, they might know about it but it will take a lot of work to dig up records and I don’t think store owners are going to spend all the time and money to dig up the information for free. The definition of a fully auto weapon has not changed to my knowledge and this… Read more »

gregs

selective enforcement is the way government agents operate. look the antifa/blm peaceful protests versus freedom rallies.
if you had the machinery and knowledge to build one yourself and didn’t sell or give it away, would batfe criminalize you? i’m sure they would if they knew.
government agents are your friend, nor are they there to help you.

musicman44mag

Binary shoots a round when you pull and then another upon release of the trigger. FRT only shoots one round per pull. The trigger is forced to reset back to the original setting to fire again. I am fully aware of the mechanics of how they operate. FrT is one pull one round. How it gets around to firing the next round fully complies within the rules. Remember., they had to change the rules to turn honest gun owners into felons if they don’t comply. This will be an easy fix. ATF, we have records you are in possession of… Read more »

Wild Bill

Why do you care? What is your stake in this or do you have some agonizing need to appear smarter than you really are?

Wild Bill

The Second Amendment does not contain a needs test.

Don

People that own machine guns are not bank robbers. They tend to be the least likely to commit a crime. Suggesting a collector that spends $30,000 on a gun is a thief is a real insult.

Roland T. Gunner

Suggesting he is likely to commit a crime. Go to prison, AND lose his $30k gun is even more of a stretch.

Grinning Dragon

WOW, this is such a hot take of ignorance and strawmanning.

Russn8r

Do you have plans to rob Fort Knob?

Wild Bill

No one can rob Fort Knob. There is no Fort Knob.

Russn8r

LOL

Wild Bill

Before your commentary, I was ignorant of the FRT trigger, but now I’m a fan!! I gotta get me one of those!

Wild Bill

If one is made, then someone, here, in Texas will have one for cash.

Last edited 1 month ago by Wild Bill
Wild Bill

I’m busy this weekend.

Wild Bill

Sir, we do not condone blatant insulting, on this site.