Libertarian Candidate Gary Johnson Throws Gift Gun in Garbage

By Dean WeingartenLiberterian Flintlock

Dean Weingarten
Dean Weingarten

Arizona – -(Ammoland.com)- At Liberty Hangout, an article has detailed a boorish, foolish, insensitive, and careless action by the Libertarian candidate for President, former New Mexico Governor, Gary Johnson.

The nomination was strongly contested by two other candidates, Austin Petersen and John McAfee.  Austin Petersen came in second, John McAfee came in third.  When Johnson won the nomination, Austin Peterson pledged his support, and he did so with a dramatic flourish.  From libertyhangout.org:

 As a token of good faith, Austin gave Johnson a replica of George Washington’s flintlock pistol, to let him know that he has Austin’s full support in the general election. Tearing up on the front stage of the convention floor, Austin said to Gary as he presented him with the pistol, “You have my sword, and you have my gun.”

In a video, Austin Petersen  explains that the gun is a prized possession, and that he is giving it to Gary Johnson.  The pistol is a flintlock replica of one of George Washington’s guns.  It thus has multiple symbolic meanings to Second Amendment supporters.  It represents liberty, limited government, the Second Amendment, and the Constitution that George Washington helped to write.

It was a dramatic bit of political theater.

The Libertarian Presidential candidate, Johnson threw it in the trash. The pistol, as part of a matched pair of firing replicas, sells for about $2,500. Non-firing replicas go for about $86. It is not clear if the pistol was capable of firing or not.

Whichever version of the pistol was thrown in the trash, it shows a severe lack of judgement on the Johnson campaign. The discarding of the pistol was witnessed, the pistol was recovered, and returned to Austin Peterson. The Johnson campaign has been reported as offering $500 for its return. From theliberterianrepublic.com:

Update: Two sources close to Petersen’s campaign have verified that on May 30th 2016, a representative from Johnson’s campaign reached out to a group of Petersen volunteers to attempt to extend an offer of $500 in exchange for the discarded pistol. Johnson’s campaign has not offered an official comment on the matter.

Libertarians have traditionally been strong Second Amendment supporters. Gary Johnson risked alienating a large segment of potential voters, voters that Hilary Clinton disdains, and voters that Donald Trump has been vigorously courting.

My suspicion is that the pistol thrown in the trash was a non-firing replica. If you look at the metal work on the grip, it is not inletted with precision. The back of the trigger shows an apparent mold line. Even Gary Johnson, who does not own any guns, would not be irresponsible enough to throw out a thousand dollar work of firearms art.

But Johnson, in throwing out the pistol, shows a disregard for the realities of politics. The action when viewed in comparison to Trump and Clinton, makes Trump appear a genius and Clinton almost competent. Throwing a gift in the trash, so soon after it has been given, working replica or not, just shows bad bad judgement. You would think a former governor would know better.

©2016 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.

Link to Gun Watch

About Dean Weingarten;

Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of constitutional carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and recently retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.

  • 93 thoughts on “Libertarian Candidate Gary Johnson Throws Gift Gun in Garbage

        1. But lets be clear, it’s NOT because they are a Libertarian, it is because it would divide the vote in the right and allow the left a win – exactly how slick willie got in office, when Perot ran!

            1. I am not so sure! I have already informed our County Sheriff that we will be stationing Poll Watchers all around the County and if we see anyone voting more than once we poll watchers will exercise our right of Citizen Arrest..!!! The Sheriff has not informed us not to do exercise this RIGHT EITHER! Hitlary for Prison has to be STOPPED..!!! God help us, PLEASE!

      1. BUT, did Peterson publicly retract his endorsement of Johnson? As soon as he found out what Johnson did, he should have contacted the media and publicly shamed the asshole publicly.

          1. Not voting of trump is throwing your vote away. There is only one choice to have a chance at saving America. It is cast your vote for Trump. Not noting , voting for a thrid party , or Hilary means HILLARY WINS and armed agents will show up at your house in swat gear and stick your gun where it is dark

            1. Why can’t the people of this Country see that we are in BIG trouble. Trump is not evil, he is just a legend in his own mind, he is a con man running the biggest con of his life, on us the American people. He waited for the right time to do this.
              With an Idiot in the White House, a corrupt Government for sale, from local all the way up to Federal. An opponent who is a career politician, with the lowest ratings among voters, and a whole list of scandals following her like ducklings.
              Go ahead and vote America, just remember that by not paying attention to what has gone on in the past elections has led to the current problems we are faced with now.
              I am a Viet Nam Veteran. When I swore my oath to defend my country from all enemies foreign and domestic. Little did I realize that it would be from
              my own Government.
              I Love My Country, it’s my Government that I don’t trust.
              And my Oath of Enlistment has no expiration date.

      2. I would barely ever consider voting Libertarian….mainly, past thinking anyway, because they have very little support and therefore no chance of winning. However, after this display of ignorance and total disregard for traditional values I would never come close to voting Libertarian…again,…ever
        I mean this man was a Libertarian in high standing and speaks for that Party….what goes on behind closed doors is usually revealed sooner or later

      3. It’s indescribably sad that as attractive as real liberty and Libertarianism is, it is too abstract as a political ideology for average Americans to produce a viable candidate that doesn’t come across as a moonbat.

        1. Reading most libertarian essays is like reading the Federalist Papers. I definitely consider myself to be libertarian . . . on paper, anyway. But all it takes is watching a Libertarian Party convention on C-SPAN to realize I am NOT one of those people! It reminds one of nothing so much as the Mos Eiseley bar scene in Star Wars. Pretty scary, boys and girls!

    1. What the article failed to mention was the fact that Austin and Gary got into an argument after the gift was given. Austin kept coming at Johnson about his VP pick. Do you give someone your sword and then continue to berate them?

      Now, as to Clark’s comment, the real way to throw your vote in the trash is to vote for someone you don’t believe in. I do not believe in Hillary or Trump. I do believe that Gary Johnson will do as he says and reduce the amount of government control over my life. It’s time we #CureWastedVoteSyndromeNow.

      1. Then you have thrown your vote in the garbage, amigo. Like it or not, we have a TWO PARTY system in the USA. Whining about ‘not believing’ is immature and ignorant. Grow up.

        1. The “two parties” would have you believe we have a two party system in the US, but can you show me where the Constitution supports that? It doesn’t. So, we don’t have two party system in the US. It is just that the Dems and Pubs have brainwashed you into thinking that.

          1. Kinda strange there aren’t two parties in Amerika….when the congress, bless their lying little hearts, give money to the two parties, but not to the rest of them.

        2. The ONLY reason we have this so called “TWO party system” is because there are more people out there spouting that crap and buying it from each other than there are people out there thinking for themselves. Those who continue the existence of this two party system are people like you, Clark, who do it out of pure fear that “the other side will win if we split our votes” and a total and complete lack of faith in their fellow Americans who actually have the balls to stand up for what, and for who, they believe in. If not for people like you who spout this rhetoric so continuously that the lie becomes truth through repetition, there would be no “two party system”, a system which the founders made abundantly clear was a very bad idea and could lead to nothing more than this longstanding “lesser of the two evils” style elections process. So instead of telling someone to grow up, how about you just grow a pair and develop the spine to step out of the crowd and stop letting people tell you how to vote like some others have done?

      2. Russell, with all due respect, how do you think that Gary Johnson will ever reduce the amount of government control over your life if he does not get elected president?

      3. Unfortunately, we still have a two party system. You are throwing away your vote and giving the liberals a better chance of putting killary into the White House. Stupid is as stupid does.

        1. Ummmm, how is voting for Gary Johnson giving a vote to Hillary? I fail to see the logic there. Unless what you are really saying without actually saying it is that without these votes that would go to Johnson, Trump won’t have enough votes to beat Hillary!?? Is that what you are really saying?
          Now using your logic, by the same token, if a Democrat who won’t vote for Hillary were to vote for Johnson, is that the same thing as that Democrat throwing his vote away and allowing Trump to win because without that vote Hillary would not have enough votes to beat Trump?

          Your logic is flawed I’m afraid.
          Casting a Vote for Johnson is NOT giving a Vote to either Hillary or Trump. It’s giving it to Johnson. The problem with the “Two party” system is that what we REALLY have are two wings on the same Bird. An Ogliarchy if you will. There are those within the GOP (Tea Party if you will) who tried to push the GOP back to it’s Conservative & limited Government roots. But these people have been constantly berated and put down and made fun of by their very own fellow party members. Because the Old hats want to keep things quid pro quo. So where is one to go then when the majority of your own political party no longer really represents you the constituants and only represents it’s own interests???? for me it’s the Libertarian party. Wackos and all!

          1. Those who argue against the two-party system, and deny that by not voting for Trump or Hillary they are de-facto giving the election to Hillary are self deluding, and are ignorant of recent history.
            Ask yourself this: How did Bill Clinton get to be president? One person – Ross Perot. He split the opposition to Clinton (read Republican leaning voters) and we ended up with a stained dress (among other things).
            The majority of citizens, and electoral college votes, went AGAINST him. BUT he had a plurality. Not a 50%+1 vote majority, only a plurality – the most of all the contenders. And he got the prize.
            Until the top two vote getters have to face each other in a run-off, for a clear majority pick, a vote against Hillary doesn’t hurt her if she gets a plurality. THAT is why you are throwing away your vote. The opposition to the Dems/Hillary is diverse. Her support, while weird, is for all intents and purposes monolithic.
            Can a third party arise? Yes, look at the Republicans. The Whigs went the way of the dodo bird. But at what cost. The sundering of the nation, the institutionalization of the government having the last say, with a gun if necessary.

      4. We do not have a two party system. We have a bunch of people conditioned into thinking we have a two party system. This benefits the status quo quite nicely. There is no law that says that a Republican or Democrat has to win the election. That is up to our votes. If you just keep voting for what you don’t want, then that is the only way to guarantee you get it. I on the other hand will vote honestly and passionately for the candidate that most agrees with me. I invite you to join me and help be a part of the solution.

        1. When polls show a 3rd party candidate has a chance of winning I will vote for them, but if they have zero chance , then you are most definitely putting hilary in as president.

          1. With all due respect, you have that backwards. You have to vote for them so they have a chance of winning. We won’t just wake up one day and suddenly see a thriving and successful alternative party. We must make that happen. Your vote for real change this year is necessary to inspire others to vote likewise in years to come. Supporting the status quo will only ever get you the status quo.

            1. The Socialist party might not be a bad example to emulate. They entered the fray in 1916, not with a plan of winning, but with a plan to split the left-wing vote. After a while the D’s got sick of losing votes to the Socialist party, and so today, the D platform contains every plank that existed in the 1916 Socialist Party platform. If that’s your approach: to split the classical liberal vote and take votes away from the Republican party in the hope that, over time, the R’s will begin to include Libertarian planks in their platform, then I can respect that.

              In my mind, however, it’s a lot like splitting Christianity into a dozen different protestant denominations. I, personally, can’t be worried about whether I’m labeled as Presbyterian, Methodist, or Baptist when the other side is a group of Satanists who are going to win if we can’t all get together and cast a united Christian vote.

              I think it comes down to whether or not you can effect long-term change before the statists destroy what is left of America. I don’t think the Libertarian party can accomplish that before the Democratic Socialists destroy us; therefore, I will vote for the candidate who has the best chance of winning and is not Hillary.

              I respect the decision to vote your conscience and stick to your guns, but I’m not sure it is a strategy that will do anything for this country.

      5. The ONLY “federal” group that can LAWFULLY reduce the federal government is Congress. And they will not do it. ANY president who does not “faithfully execute [their] laws” violates his or her oath of office and is guilty of misfeasance, one of two reasons for impeachment. That NO ONE has brought to the floor the HOUSE to do so with the current usurper shows us that Congress is not serious about preserving OUR Republic. Go ahead and vote for Perot – a third time – er, I mean Johnson. Then be prepared to have your homes invaded by blue helmets with fully automatic weapons against your pea shooters.

    2. First of all Gary Johnson does own a couple of guns, so you’re wrong right there.. And second, he is a staunch supporter of gun rights, and feels gun restrictions make us less safe.

      The reason he threw the gun in the trash was because 1) Peterson was being a complete prick to him during the debates and asking him ridiculously racially-charged loaded questions that Johnson still has to defend himself from today.
      2) After the presenting Johnson with the gun he apparently started trashing Johnson’s VP pick Weld right before the VP nomination.

      So Johnson said “F- this fool!” and threw the gift in the trash. It doesn’t’ matter if it was a gun or a watch or a fruitcake. In his mind he just didn’t want to take anything from a POS phony.

      Do you or can you understand that, now?

    3. The gun was from a right-wing plant who brought his own booing section to try and get him nominated. Johnson tossed away the broken plastic gone of this anti-libertarian hypocrite. This hit article confirms it’s a right-wing set-up.

    4. I wouldn’t have accepted any gift from Austin after what he did. It’s like someone after they attack you, bait you into rediculous questions, call you incapable, call you racist then decides hey no hard feelings here’s a gift. Then after they give you the gift starts saying by the way your partner sucks and you suck for choosing him. Austin is a disgrace to the libertarian party and I love that Gary didn’t fall for his act.

      1. No, Somalia was communist until they had a civil war. The national govt collapsed but regional & local govts remained. What libertarians have done is point out that things got better in Somalia after they got rid of their commie fed govt. Get your facts straight before you make noise in public.

    5. Anyone who questions Gov. Johnson’s stance on the Second Amendment should read his most recent statement at: http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/gary-johnson-no-evidence-that-gun-restrictions-make-us-safer/
      (Also check out the video there of Gov. Weld’s statement from a couple of weeks ago.)

      Johnson has a lot of guts, making a rational argument like that at a time like this. (That gun restrictions do not lead to more safety, and have been shown to do the opposite.)

      Johnson & Weld are firm supporters of Second Amendment rights and they’ve got my vote, but that is an easy call for me since I’ve always been in favor of small-government and social tolerance.

      1. Weld supported some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation when he was MA governor. He supported Romney and McCain, two more worthless RINO’s, and then supported Obama. He was a Libertarian for less than a month before being chosen as VP candidate. Johnson was Republican governor. His comments about a Jewish baker being forced to make cakes for Nazis, and saying Libertarianism is “being socially liberal and fiscally conservative” show he has no clue about LP principles. As far as throwing away votes, the difference between a “D” and an “R” is in the cronies they pay off and the lies they tell. Both love big government and wish to control every facet of our lives. Both base their “politics” on expediency and keeping “we the people” at each others throats. Both would confiscate guns if they thought they could get away with it.

        1. You must not have been as convinced by Weld’s video as I was. Still, I find it a bit ironic as I figured that it would be those on the left who would be turned of by the Johnson/Weld strong pro-2A stance, as I know that many on the right aren’t going to be pleased with their equally strong pro-choice stance.

          In my mind, the most important thing separating Johnson/Weld from both Clinton and Trump is their push for small government and against deficit spending.

    6. I was there the entire weekend. I like Austin, but he had been trying to bait Gary Johnson for a while. He seems to think the dirty politics of the other parties is A-OK in the liberty movement. I don’t agree with that nor do I fall for this storyline.

    7. “Johnson”. Well…I guess Gary ‘Johnson’…is a “real Johnson”…only he wears a suit.

    8. The folks who scream that this is a two party system and that everyone who doesn’t like it should get over it are the exact same folks who promote the “lesser of two evils” argument.

      In a nutshell, their argument is that you have to vote against either Clinton or Trump by voting for either Trump or Clinton.

      The 2016 race is a better indication of just how wrong the “lesser of two evils” argument is than any other election in history. Both candidates are deplorable on so many issues and for so many reasons that the majority of American voters dislike both of them even before the election takes place. That’s a historic record!

      There is absolutely no doubt that voting for Trump and voting for Clinton are acts of evil, and they can only produce evil results.

      I’m not saying that Johnson is our savior. Quite the contrary, i think he has a number of serious flaws

      But those of you who argue against him based upon the idea that it’s a two-party system and that there’s nothing we can do about it are the worst of all, because what you are preaching is 100% negative hopelessness, and it can only result in national tragedy..

      1. So, Walt, you are saying that Johnson is the lesser of three evils. Maybe we should focus on who is the most evil of the three, and make sure that one does not get elected.

    9. This whole article is weak. Yes on the surface reading it I am thinking what a childish thing to do, throw away a gift especially such a symbolic one. Then commenters here fill in some blanks about the circumstances. In further reading the author concludes this makes Trump appear a genius and Clinton almost competent. I do not see any validity in that assertion.
      I wish Johnson had a chance I would vote for him. He does not at this point. Trump continues to show terrible judgment and temperament, neither is acceptable for a President.
      Secretary Clinton the obvious choice on experience and knowledge keeps pandering to all the colors of the Rainbow and talking gun control. Tough year for an election.

    10. Granted we need an over haul of the election system, and more diversity than a two party system, but why jump in at such a late date if not to be a “spoiler”?
      The political parties are pretty much set in who they portend to represent, but the individual candidates and politicians are not!
      Many politicians are ‘sack of sh–‘, in it for the money, lying, ass-kissing, deal maker/deal breaker, lifetime leaches, hardly heard from till re-election time.

      KNOW WHO YOUR VOTE IS PUTTING IN OFFICE!

    11. A vote this year for a “third party” candidate will ensure Hitlerly Clinton wins the White House. We all need to focus our attention on preventing another criminal Clinton from obtaining the Presidency. This just isn’t the year for conservatives and libertarians to fight among ourselves. Haven’t we all had enough of one socialist, anti-American, anti-Constitution administration?

    12. Large numbers of people refused to vote for “the lesser of two evils” the previous two elections and that accomplished nothing more than ensuring 8 years of Obama which is why we are where we are at today. Now apparently people are incapable of learning from previous mistakes.

      First, anyone who equates Trump with evil in the same breath as Hillary has no real understanding of evil. Aiding and abetting terrorists, restricting fundamental rights, abandoning an American diplomat to terrorists, and risking security breaches in order to avoid being on the public record as Hillary did is truly evil. Simply saying things you disagree with or failing to say the things you want to hear as Trump does only seems evil to the entitled. False equivalence is often the first resort of the ignorant and lazy with an agenda to promote.

      Secondly, not voting for “the lesser of two evils” is in effect and practice, simply voting for the greater of two evils. Reference the previous 8 years under Obama if you still don’t understand why that is a bad idea.

      As for Johnson, I’m willing to accept the story of a fight being the cause for discarding the gun…. that still doesn’t make it any less childish or stupid. Johnson’s own statements concerning the 2A are concerning enough, then he selects a potential VP with a history of being anti 2A and now this.All at a time when he needed to be bolstering his 2A bonafides not creating more questions about them.

      1. Voting for Trump or Hillary is a vote for the demise of our once Great Country. This country is in big trouble, on one hand we have the Clown, Bigot, Bully, Draft Dodger, and Lair. Whose EGO won’t even fit into the White House.
        On the other we have the friend of Wall Street, the BIG money crowd, a career politician
        (haven’t we had enough of these), the Queen of scandals, and Obama rubber stamp.
        Our Government, from local all the way up to Federal is corrupt and our Democracy
        is for sale. ask any of the 1%. They have been buying and selling politicians for
        years. The answer is, term limits, two terms then go on Social Insecurity and
        Medicare just like the rest of us. Enough of this privileged Nobility class crap, no more
        of this Golden retirement, no more of this Golden medical. They are supposed to be
        servants of the people. And I have NEVER been able to vote myself a raise in pay, Have you?
        As for executive orders, we have had too many of the Royal Decree’s already.

        I am a Viet Nam Veteran. When I swore my oath to defend my country from all enemies
        foreign and domestic. Little did I realize that it would be from my own Government.
        I Love My Country, it’s my Government that I don’t trust.
        And my Oath of Enlistment has no expiration date.

    13. My vote will go with the supporter of the 2nd Amendment… NOT THE IDIOT JOHNSON. I always identified as a Libertarian…NOT ANYMORE.

    14. I am going to comment on a few different things I have read here today. First, Gary Johnson didn’t wait until the last minute to start working on being the next president. The Libertarian debates have been going on as long as the Two Party debates, you just don’t see them on the mainstream news like CNN and MSNBC. They are aired on much smaller venues. But you can find them on You Tube if Anyone is interested in finding out more information.

      Second, Gary Johnson ran for resident in 2012 but was not allowed to be in the presidential debates so no one had a chance to compare him side by side with the others. This year Gary will be on the ballot in all 50 states. If he poles at 15% the debate commission will have to let him be in the national debates. That is if they bother to put him in the poles. That is how they keep it a Two Party System. By denying us a chance to hear from a third party. I would love to hear a voice of reason up on stage with Trump and Clinton. Maybe we would actually get to hear about the issues we care about.

      We the People have a change to to show that we are sick of the same old Two Party BS and try something new. Try and get our country back from the Two Party system that has been running it into the ground for as long as I can remember.

      So if enough of us don’t automatically think that voting third party is throwing away our vote then maybe we can get the change we so desperately need. You owe it to yourselves to at least find out “Who The Hell is Gary Johnson”

    15. Yes the Libertarian Party screwed up. They could have picked Austin Peterson and actually had a chance impact the election and pull votes from both the Democrats and Republicans. Instead they picked a clown who won’t get 3%. It just proves for once and all that the LP’s like to talk about protecting the Constitution, minimizing government and demanding their rights. They do not want to actually do any of that stuff, but they do like to hear themselves talk. Oh and let us not for get they also like to pat themselves on the back for all the talk.

      What a waste.

    16. I’m afraid that if anyone votes for Johnson, all they are doing is giving that lying hussy Killary a vote to get her in the white house….I was going to vote for Ted Cruz but guess that is out…I WILL VOTE FOR TRUMP… If we don’t , we will lose the white house….PERIOD….

    17. I will vote Libertarian, just like I have in the past 2 elections. I will not sell out my beliefs for either of the 2 evils. If all of you who say they agree with the party platform of freedom and liberty, but it’s a waisted vote, would actually take a stand he would actually win.

      The more people who leave the disgracefull republican party, the more hit piece articles like this will be published.

      USMC
      CW

      1. His name is Ross G Johnson and he is running to help elect Hilary. Wonder how much gray he will get later for helping Hilary

    18. Gary Johnson agrees with Obama on granting amnesty to illegals, and along with the Libertarian Party, which DOES NOT represent the Libertarian Philosophy, has an open-borders policy under the guise of “free trade”; this “party” is willing to “redistribute” American Liberty and American Sovereignty to the third world at great social, political and economic costs to Americans.

      Gary is an anti-American candidate much like Hillary Clinton is. Do not vote for him.

    19. Does voting for a 3rd party make sense, or a difference? In 1992, when Bill Clinton was nominated (no one thought he could win at the time), Ross Perot joined the race. Although he didn’t win any electoral college votes, he did garner 18.91% of the popular vote. Most people agree that a majority of those votes came from Independents and Republicans. Clinton only won two states (AK, NY) and DC by a margin bigger than Perot’s bite. However, in many states, Clintons margin of victory was less than 5% while Perot grabbed more than 10%! If Perot had not run, those states would surely have gone to Bush. So, in effect, by voting for a 3rd party candidate that says the same things as a Republican candidate, hands the victory to Clinton. Will history repeat itself?

    20. Personally I don’t see a logical argument here. We are being given a choice between a fascist, a Marxist, and a pot-head. NONE of which can hold a candle up to our founding fathers, but, they are our only choices.

      The pot-head is an immature, childish, half-brain, dim-wit. (I live in New Mexico) I really don’t care that he threw a replica gun in the trash, I do care about his immaturity that caused him to throw it in the trash! Would you really want his finger on the “button”?

      The Marxist wants to re-define and re-write the Constitution that protects our fundamental Rights by lying to us about her intentions, socialistic dictatorship, and past criminal behavior just to win our vote. Remember, this Marxist has already admitted to being an early 20th century progressive that follows in the footsteps of Hitler and Mussolini. This Marxist is in bed with the worst of the worst for a personal agenda, personal greed, and personal power without regard for our fundamental Rights!

      The fascist is use to running a company by dictatorship. The fascist is a “used car salesman”! Without a political record we sit here in the dark trying to guess “is he trying to sell us a lemon, or is he really trying to give us a good deal?” The fascist certainly does NOT have the personal character and integrity of our founding fathers, let alone the faith and knowledge of our founding fathers in a supreme being. Can he really change and run our country out of loyalty and respect for our fundamental God-given Rights or does he have an ulterior motive underneath his “song and dance”???

      Out of all of this and more I am left with only one to vote for. Not because I favor that one, but, because that one is the lesser of three or more evils. Not because they are a member of a certain party, but, because of the values they ascribe to in their words. I will “hold my nose” all the way to the voting booth and all the way back home and hope and pray and wish and cross my fingers, my toes, my legs, my “arms”, and whatever else I can get crossed for the best possible results.

      The country of our founding fathers I am afraid is gone. The individual liberties, the individual freedoms, and the sanctity of our God-given individual unalienable Rights, in favor of socialism, collectivism, social justice instead of equal justice, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”. No one will be allowed to keep the spoils of their own hard work and labor. It will be taken from those who produce by the government and given to those who do not. And those who do not produce will be beholding to the government that “gives” that which does not belong to them.

      Whatever way we go from here I am afraid its going to be a “H**L-of-a-roller-coaster” ride, but I hope for the best!

    21. The fact that we are allowed to choose our dictators doesn’t make us any freer. It merely gives voters the feeling of power and the illusion of control. All the while they are being manipulated into supporting a government that implements policies detrimental to their well being.

      What better way is there to get people to follow the law and pay taxes than to convince them that these things are their will? What better way is there to get people to tolerate the government’s evils than by convincing them that the situation is temporary and that they can change the government at the next election? What better way is there to get people to respect elected officials than to convince them that they, the people, chose these scoundrels to represent them? (A mandate, it’s called.) None of these things are true, but the fraud works. Democracy is held to be the best form of government yet devised. The question is best for whom? Certainly not the people.

      It does work best for the ruling elites who can hide their evil plans behind a smiling democratic facade. The formula is to give people just enough freedom to feel free but not so much that the government loses control of them. To assure that the people will put up with their laws, antics, and taxes the ruling class must keep the citizens involved. It is past time for people to face the reality of what voting really is, an endorsement of the evils that governments commit. I call on you not to take part in this fraud any more. Withhold your consent! Have the courage to join us in principled nonvoting and commit not to vote ever again. Remember, if you vote don’t complain!

      1. @Darren, Just talk. Not voting is not going to help. Why don’t you do something of value. I call on you to start your armed revolution. Until then you are just a parlor revolutionary.

        1. @Wild Bill, Too bad you see identifying the problem as “just talk”. Keep dumbly dreaming that you can vote us out of the mess we’re in. If voting actually worked to keep the govt under control they’d do away with it. Since the opposite is true, voting & elections keep the people under control, they put out great effort to get us to participate.

          1. @Darren, Yes, yes I see the truth of what you are writing, Form up your revolutionary army! Shall we meet at your house? Will you be putting on dinner for everyone?

            1. @Wild Bill stop with this revolution BS. I can advocate another system without being a revolutionary. Please put out an intelligent argument or get lost. If you continue to play the fool you’ll be ignored.

            2. @Darren, You have managed to stumble over my point, exactly. All you do is advocate, write, talk, bla, bla, bla. Now, as to your unprovoked insults, I am going to let you go this time, because I am a gentleman by official act of Congress. As to your ultimatum, there is little “or else” to fear in it.

          2. @Darren,hey piss*ant,you get lost numb nuts ! Bill,knows more about these issues than you ever could. What part of NY are you in piss*ant ? Darren,this site is for men,leave now sissy.

    22. @Bill,this Darren POS should be added to our no contact. No point in wasting our time arguing with such an obvious idiot !

      1. @Tex, I know that you are right. I have heard or read all of his parlor revolutionary tripe, before. It is just the temerity to “call on” others to not vote betrays a youthful noxiousness. Making up facts, spouting orders, gaps in logic filled in with thin implications, sophomoric insult… he has all the hall marks of a teenager.

        1. I give up on Tex & Wild Bill, this is addressed to the rest. I know challenging the system that you’ve been indoctrinated & propagandized to believe in for decades is jarring. An emotional reaction is understandable but at some point one needs to settle down & think about it. There’s no denying that things are reaching crisis proportions, a crisis we voted ourselves into. Voting obviously didn’t prevent the problem, what makes anyone think voting will get us out? People that substitute voting for taking meaningful action are deceiving themselves. Remember first do no harm. Voting is harmful in that it legitimizes the govt’s tyranny in most people’s minds. The govt needs to be able to claim to be elected to be seen as legit. Don’t help it. After delegitimizing the govt we can move to positive action for liberty. Vainglorious stands now are futile & even counterproductive. First things first.

          1. Actually you are wrong about not voting, but your reasons are right. We need to vote BUT what we need to do is establish a system of voting that gives us our say! We have sat idly by while the “government” has established a voting system that fulfills their requirements and allows them to force us too vote on their nominees. As well. they have changed us over to electronic voting which is impossible to prevent compromise!
            Both Bill and Tex are also wrong in that voting for the “least of the two evils” is the way to go. Instead of conforming to the government’s BS election system we should have concentrated on changing the voting system. Now it is too late, with three months to go, and government being so slow to fix anything (if they even will), we have no choice but to vote Trump just to keep Hitlery out of the White House.
            Lastly, DOES IT REALLY MATTER? Our nation is on the verge of collapse. Our currency is about to crash and our economy will implode. The zionists that control everything financial in this country and Europe have done what they set out to do, and that is to break the bank so they can take full control. We are unlikely to even see an election, and even if we do we are more likely to see Hitlery win. The government knows that they can put Hitlery in office and the people won’t revolt, they’ll do the same thing they did when Ovomit took office illegally!! Sit on their assses and complain!
            The only true solution, although it is already too late, is for the real patriots to do as our forefathers did and physically remove the governing body. But this will not happen because when SHTF we will all be busy fighting for basic survival. The elitists will run for other countries with their stolen assets thinking they can wait out the chaos. Martial law will be forced on us, and the NWO will be too. All of what is happening is according to biblical prophesy and we can’t change biblical prophesy.

            1. RJ, Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I would argue that money is what matters not how rulers gain office. When we control our money we’ll be free. Notice that we aren’t legally given a choice in the matter of paying taxes. We can vote, protest, write letters, make videos, & make speeches but we can’t withhold our money. The reason people accept the theft called taxation is because they’re deceived into thinking that the electoral system gives them power &, therefore, the govt legitimacy. It’s all a lie to get people to submit. Changing the way elections are run won’t change this dynamic. Since we’ll still have to pay taxes we’ll still be slaves.

              The Right to Ignore the State
              by Herbert Spencer
              1. The Right to Voluntary Outlawry

              As a corollary to the proposition that all institutions must be subordinated to the law of equal freedom, we cannot choose but admit the right of the citizen to adopt a condition of voluntary outlawry. If every man has freedom to do all that he wills, provided he infringes not the equal freedom of any other man, then he is free to drop connection with the state — to relinquish its protection, and to refuse paying toward its support. It is self-evident that in so behaving he in no way trenches upon the liberty of others; for his position is a passive one; and whilst passive he cannot become an aggressor. It is equally self-evident that he cannot be compelled to continue one of a political corporation, without a breach of the moral law, seeing that citizenship involves payment of taxes; and the taking away of a man’s property against his will, is an infringement of his rights.
              http://www.libertarianism.org/publications/essays/right-ignore-state

            2. @Rattlerjake, I’m just throwing the BS flag on Darren for trying to manipulate others. He is just trying to get others to do his anarchist dirty work. Who is he to call on others to do anything? As far as the remainder of your comments, I just put in the second firing position over looking the expected route of march of the government’ troops, or marauders looking for food, or Darrens group of bedraggled, starving anarchists, or whomever.

            3. Darren, Pay attention! You don’t need to argue just to argue. The election process is what the zionist elite use to gain office which will fulfill their quest for MONEY! Of course it’s about money, but it is also about power which gives control and control does what? Give them access to more MONEY. But NOT VOTING solves nothing, what it does is just make it easier for the worst to get control.
              Hypothetically, IF Trump got into office it could allow us to change things IF he is what he claims to be, and that is a big if. BUT, it would also mean that we as a citizenry would have to DEMAND and FORCE Donald and the congress to change our voting system as well as go back to hand written paper ballots. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

              Keep your powder dry, cache supplies, and make every shot count (aim small miss small)! If you don’t pray, you better start. De oppresso liber!

            4. So it’s OK to call on others to vote but who is anyone to do the opposite? Yes, that’s consistent. You good slaves keep deceiving yourselves about being free while you pay taxes to master.

              “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” – Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

          1. WB, is that the best your feeble mind can come up with, that I’m for Hitlery? Go back & reread my posts, present actual arguments for or against what I posted.

    23. Where did it say that only lawyers and holder of law degrees are able to run this country?? Whatever Trump’s shortcomings are, he’s closer to what the founders designed this Constitution for, IMHO. The Kahn set up is a good example. Trump could break all of Kahn’s firm’s members, rice bowls, by executive orders. Kahn is wrong, a 1952 law says that the President can do exactly what Trump wants to do. Ban anyone, from any place, at any time. Kahn is only one more Harvard Law B.S.’r. The idea that every fuzzy wuzzy around the world enjoys equal protection here, is just some Harvard Prof’s dream.

      1. He was set up by Clinton to combat Mrs. Smith’s speech at the Repub.Convention. He is a lawyer and a muslim immigration lawyer, at that. He has done legal work for someone in the clinton holdout. He is not a greving parent but more of a paid rattlesnake for the big H. Sick, sick,sick.

      2. Trump is owned by Putin. That’s why he has a Russian handler. Once Trump gets to the White House America is controlled by the Russians!

    24. It is widely acknowledged chronic marijuana use has long-term negative effects on mental faculties, including judgment. Perhaps Gary “Jane” Johnson has reached that threshold.

    25. In the vernacular of libertarians everywhere, what a f**king moron. Free speech and all… if it “hurts” a fu*kers feelings who gives a sh*t.

    26. Clinton is a criminal, Bengazi was a gun running operation like the Oliver North used in the 80s, emails, private server got a general canned but not hillary., real estate deals, insider trading, vince fosters death (suicide by left handed guy shooting himself with right hand and walking 2 miles to die, Really?) pay to play deals, foundation to hide money, hatred for blacks (margret sanger) and bills illegitimate kid/s , secret service agents talking about hillary, angry outbursts, her medical conditions, I HATE THE THOUGHT OF A VOTE FOR TRUMP BUT A VOTE FOR HILLARY IS DEATH WARRANT FOR ALL OF AMERICAN VALUES.

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