Congressional GUN Bill, HR5611, Has NO-FLY LIST Hidden In It, Very Bad

“NO-FLY LIST” Is Hidden In It By “Under Investigation” Language. This bill is worse than previous ones that prompted sit-ins.

Secret Government List
Congressional GUN Bill, HR5611, Has NO-FLY LIST Hidden In It, Very Bad
Alan Korwin
Alan Korwin

USA – -(Ammoland.com)- NOTE: Without using the lightning-rod term NO-FLY LIST, Bill HR5611 sweeps all those people into a new anti-gun-rights database, because everyone there has been “investigated” in some fashion, and anyone investigated is covered by this proposed law. It's very clever actually.

The guesstimate numbers of people announced publicly include 70,000 names on the no-fly list (people who've supposedly been “investigated” enough to be on that list) and one million people on the terrorism watch list, plus the “selectees” list with an unknown number of people. These are people charged with nothing, convicted of nothing, free to travel anywhere, just not by air. Presumably, TSA airport scanners and checkpoints don't work on these people. The NICS database will see a massive increase if this passes.

BACKGROUND: This is the supposedly republican “compromise” amendment (drafted by democrats) to replace the unconstitutional and feckless anti-rights drafts the democrats staged a whining sit-in tantrum to enact two weeks, or so, ago. All five of those attempts failed, with one being tabled for the moment. This draft is quite different but no better, and is subject to at least as much government-agent abuse or worse than the former drafts.

It has been referred to House Foreign Affairs as of 07/01/2016 among other actions.

COMMENT:

It is galling to watch elected democrats get on the House floor (I just watched them on C-SPAN) and completely lie about this proposal. It is NOT a vote on background checks or firearm types. It cannot possibly have support of 90% of the public because the public doesn't know what this says. Besides, 90% of the public doesn't agree on much of anything, much less gun policy, even idiots know that, what do they take us for?

REALITY:

This will have no effect on the 6,000 blacks who murder each other yearly, or the serious medical problem with 21,000 suicides yearly. That's 27,000 of the 30,000 deaths the media deceptively harps on constantly. It is doubtful if many members of Congress know what you are about to read below — documented by the actual language of the amendment I've provided for you. I don't make this stuff up — like the “news” does.

These new terms would be introduced into our laws if this passes. The terms have no actual definitions, they are just used:

1. “A person who is being, or has been investigated during the previous 5 years, as a known or suspected terrorist.”
Anyone could meet this description — investigated by anyone, at a moment's notice — regardless of whether you actually are a terrorist or not! Just being “investigated” makes you guilty of the definition and subject to penalties.

2. “A person who is being investigated as a known or suspected terrorist.”
Exact same problem as above: if any authority “investigates” you, your rights evaporate. It doesn't matter what the investigation finds, or who conducts it. Investigation equals guilt.

3. “…which petition shall receive the highest priority on the docket…”
This is supposed to ensure you get quick service at court, but anyone familiar with the system knows this is nonsense. Courts get hopelessly backed up, with plenty of “highest priority” cases on the docket. If the service is hopelessly slow, you have no recourse. No one is responsible, you just get delayed, while your rights are suspended.

This is where my proposed comitatus requirement would come in, but so far that concept is just ignored. http://www.gunlaws.com/ModelLegislation.htm We need teeth in laws, which would make officials responsible for failing to live up to statutory requirements. In this case, to really mean what it says, “highest priority” would mean and should say “same day.” If that doesn't happen, the requirement to appear (or forfeit your rights) would be “dismissed.” How long would you have the poor “investigated individual who isn't charged with anything” wait? Then say so. This does not.

4. “a showing of probable cause to believe that the prospective transferee will commit an act of terrorism.”
It would be nice if a measurable standard was included, but as is, it will be up to the court and the prosecutor (who work for the same department) to make a determination. If there is such probable cause, that's grounds for a charge, an arrest, and a prosecution, but not here, just summary denial of rights. That's what makes America different from banana republics (or used to).

5. “an opportunity to participate with counsel”
This may be the biggest joke of all. There is no provision for you to get evidence, confront your accuser, even know who your accuser is — you won't even know what you're charged with, and if the thinking on prior bill versions reflects the mindset, secrecy will prevent anyone from telling you any of that. It is all blatant violation of the Bill of Rights, “in the name of national security.” You just get to go to court with someone to hold your hand.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't want to sell guns at retail to islamic jihadis (not whitewashed “terrorists”) anymore than you do. I can just see how officials granted this much power will abuse it, as they already try, and are, in thousands of cases. Shut up or I'll bust a cap up your arse.

6. “receives actual notice”
You get notice of the hearing — so you can show up on short notice, with a lawyer — but no notice of the charges or evidence against you.

7. “an emergency petition… which is denied”
If your appearance succeeds in getting the petition against you stopped the government will pay your lawyer fees and expenses. This is an incentive for the government to not give up, or to bring bad cases. A typical retainer for a lawyer to work on a federal case like this could run $1,000 to $5,000 and up. Don't expect many fees to be reimbursed.

BOTTOM LINE:

The bill delays a gun sale to anyone any authority investigates as a potential terrorist, for three business days, and potentially forever, based on what will be a new database in the FBI's NICS system, let's call it: “Persons Under Specified Investigations” (PUSI). It doesn't say this in so many words, but that's what they'll need to implement it. Tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of names poured into a new database, linked to NICS.

See how NICS is set up, in the image below. New names will be added for rights denial constantly as new investigations are opened.

 

NICS Process
NICS Process

Whenever anyone on this particular list tries to buy a gun, an automatic three-day national waiting period kicks in. If the Attorney General (or anyone authorized in that department) decides you are a real threat, papers are filed for permanent removal of your rights. You get notice, can appear in federal court right away, and then that's it. This bill version doesn't even have half the safeguards the last version had, and the last version was a total abomination.

That version said you can't challenge its legality or constitutionality. Who are these people?

WARNING!!

One last thing. In the opening paragraph, the transfer of a firearm here isn't tied to retail sales through a licensed dealer (an FFL). It covers any time “the Attorney General is notified of a request to transfer a firearm” without limitation. You're supposed to presume that means an application through the NICS system and a 4473 form, but it is wide open and could mean virtually anything. I guess it's just an oversight, right?

You should also recall that gun dealers have been intimidated by federal authorities to prevent sales to individuals who have been put on hold by NICS until they are released by government officials. The law says the sale must go through automatically if the authorities can't clear the hold in three business days, but many store owners are afraid to do so, and have been threatened with loss of their licenses if they obey the law instead of the people running the system.

Here's the actual amendment (HR 5611):

SEC. 5. GRANTING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THE AUTHORITY TO DENY THE SALE, DELIVERY, OR TRANSFER OF FIREARMS OR EXPLOSIVES TO KNOWN OR SUSPECTED TERRORISTS.

(a) In General.–Section 922(t) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

“(7)(A) When the Attorney General is notified of a request to transfer a firearm or an explosive to a person who is being, or has been investigated during the previous 5 years, as a known or suspected terrorist, the Attorney General shall, as appropriate, notify relevant Federal, State, or local law enforcement agencies or intelligence agencies concerning the identity of the prospective transferee.

“(B) Upon being notified of a prospective transfer of a firearm or an explosive to a person who is being investigated as a known or suspected terrorist, the Attorney General or the United States attorney for the district in which the licensee is located may–

“(i) delay the transfer of the firearm or explosive for a period not to exceed 3 business days; and

“(ii) file an emergency petition in a court of competent jurisdiction to prohibit the transfer of the firearm or explosive, which petition shall receive the highest priority on the docket of that court.

“(C)(i) An emergency petition filed under subparagraph (B) shall be granted upon a showing of probable cause to believe that the prospective transferee will commit an act of terrorism, or is prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm under subsection (g) or (n).

“(ii) An emergency petition filed under subparagraph (B) to prohibit the transfer of a firearm or explosive may be granted only after a hearing–

“(I) of which the prospective transferee receives actual notice; and

“(II) at which the prospective transferee has an opportunity to participate with counsel.

“(iii) In the case of an emergency petition filed under subparagraph (B) which is denied, the court shall require that the United States pay the costs and attorney fees of the prospective transferee.”.

(b) Rule of Construction.–The amendments made by this section do not preclude the Attorney General from arresting and detaining a person, including a person described in section 922(t)(7) of title 18, United States Code, with regard to whom an emergency petition has been filed under such paragraph, if the Attorney General has probable cause to believe that the person has committed, conspired to commit, or attempted to commit an act of terrorism.

 

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    DavidRobert B. CecilnotalimaWild BillJanek Recent comment authors
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    David
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    David

    1. The Russians Government will get involved too With China India will get involved to aid National Rifle association too . Saudi Arabs will get involved to defend our Assault weapons rights too. warning They break relations : in the U.S.A All with the Anti Gun Leaders of the U.S.A too! This is, warning to anti gunners in the U.S.A too . The U.N will take charge immediately too. They will cut of moneys off from the U.S.A too! They Will defended The Gun Owners Rights to owned Assault Weapon of any Kind too. Is Semi auto OR Full auto… Read more »

    Robert B. Cecil
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    Robert B. Cecil

    My God! If only our Congress had Common Sense enough to Simply Follow Our Constitution!

    Which part of The SECOND AMENDMENT do you not understand?

    “Bob O”

    Herb
    Guest
    Herb

    Ever wonder why it is that democrats are the best and most frequent liars?

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Herb, I don’t know if it is a calling or if they studied and worked hard to become professionals.

    Janek
    Guest
    Janek

    Maybe they’re being incentivized with ‘Frequent Liar Miles’ for their trips between DC and their Liberal enclaves?

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    Or special recognition from their peers at the annual Liars Club roast.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    Definitely had the benefit of a liar education. Most likely lie vy league.

    gil
    Guest
    gil

    If they really want to filter the people buying guns, 3 to 5 day wait period is fine with me. They have enough time to know if the buyer is a terrorist or not but putting peoples name secretly in a no fly or terrorist list just because they are buying guns are oppressive. Besides, criminals dont subject themselves on background checks which the democrats do not understand or they do understand but has a different agenda behind it.

    Robert
    Guest
    Robert

    Sorry girl, it isn’t fine with me. There is no “waiting period” to purchase any other goods in the US. We submit to a background check, if NICS flags for further review a hold is placed, and if after three days nothing is returned then the firearm is sold to the purchaser. If no NICS hold is placed, you walk out the door the same day with your purchase (at least here in WA state). There is a completely simple solution that does not require spending hundreds of thousands of tax dollars debating it in congress, implementation of onerous wait… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @gil, Nope, It isn’t fine with me either. Is there a 3 to 5 day waiting period to buy gasoline? Is there a 3 to 5 day waiting period to buy a car (or really big truck)? Is there a waiting period to buy ordinary cleaning products (bleach and ammonia)? Nylons (nowadays panty hose)? Nail gun? Two foot length of barbwire? Longneck bottle of beer? All classic murder weapons. As to the ‘they”, I presume that you mean the Fat Boy Institute. I am not so sure that they know anything until their ASAC says so much less within 3… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    Not fine with me either. Is there a 3 to 5 day waiting period to buy gasoline? Is there a 3 to 5 day waiting period to buy a car (or semi tractor)? Is there a 3 to 5 day waiting period to buy bleach and ammonia? Pair of nylons (nowadays panty hose)? Nail gun? Long neck bottle of beer? Two foot length of barb wire? All classic murder weapons.

    Wild Bill
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    Wild Bill

    @gil, Nope, It isn’t fine with me either. Is there a 3 to 5 day waiting period to buy gasoline? Is there a 3 to 5 day waiting period to buy a car (or really big truck)? Is there a waiting period to buy ordinary cleaning products (bleach and ammonia)? Nylons (nowadays panty hose)? Nail gun? Two foot length of barbwire? Longneck bottle of beer? All classic murder weapons. As to the ‘they”, I presume that you mean the Fat Boy Institute. I am not so sure that they know anything until their ASAC says so much less within 3… Read more »

    notalima
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    notalima

    Put this in terms of other rights.

    3-5 day wait to practice religion.
    3-5 day wait to speak freely.
    3-5 day wait to assemble peacefully.

    etc

    A right delayed is a right denied. Each time a right is compromised, that peice of the cake is gone forever. Then they’ll show up again, wanting more cake.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    Hey Alan Korwin is using the same 6,000 blacks killed each year that someone here told me was wrong! See “… This will have no effect on the 6,000 blacks who murder each other yearly,…” supra!

    GTNSC
    Guest
    GTNSC

    “SEC. 5. GRANTING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THE AUTHORITY TO DENY THE SALE, DELIVERY, OR TRANSFER OF FIREARMS OR EXPLOSIVES TO KNOWN OR SUSPECTED TERRORISTS.”

    What is the definition of “explosives”? Tim McV used fertilizer and fuel oil to make his explosives. Does Sec 5 mean that we will have to file a 4473 to buy fertilizer at the local hardware store?