Slide Fire Bump Fire Gun Stocks NOT an Automatic Weapon Says ATF

Slide Fire SSAR-15 SBS Bump Fire Stock
SlideFire Bump Fire Gun Stocks NOT an Automatic Weapon Says ATF
AmmoLand Gun News
AmmoLand Gun News

USA –  -(Ammoland.com)- The main stream media and Democratic gun banners are in a fever over Slide Fire Bump Fire gun stocks found in the hotel of the Las Vegas Mandalay Bay shooter. Unlike all other AR 15 Gun Stocks the Slide Fire stock allows the shooter to ride the trigger simulating fast

Unlike all other AR 15 Gun Stocks the Slide Fire stock allows the shooter to ride the trigger simulating fast gun fire, but with very little aiming control.

As with anything gun related the media and politicians don't know what they are talking about when they call the rifles with Slide Fire's bump fire gun stocks “automatic weapons”.

With just a simple internet search they would have found that Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) , as early as 2010, has made the legal determination that these style of stocks are NOT automatic weapons. They are just gun parts and do not fall under ATF jurisdiction, nor require any special stamps or permits or related “permissions”.

From the ATF letter below.

“Accordingly we find that the “bump-stock” is a firearm part and is NOT regulated as a firearm under the Gun Control Act or National Firearms Act.”

Slide Fire ATF Determination Letter 2010 ~ NOT an Automatic Weapon

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    Alton Inguardsen
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    Alton Inguardsen

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    Botoks Poznań
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    Botoks Poznań

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    Rupert Bieler

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    Wesley Pelote
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    Wesley Pelote

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    Joanna
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    Joanna

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    The other Jim
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    The other Jim

    @WB
    These Self driven cars are so new there are not many laws yet. In New York you must have one hand on the steering wheel at all times. Since there is no driver and no hand on the steering wheel, all the tickets would probably go to the person in the back seat; or maybe they would just arrest the person and impound the vehicle. Not sure, I guess we will be seeing more and more on these cars and the poor victims that are killed or injured by the cars’ errors.

    The other Jim
    Guest
    The other Jim

    @oldvet Speaking of experimental cars, about 3 blocks from the Indian Reservation on Long Island a “Self driven silver SUV” cut me off and almost caused an accident. I was at the stop sign first and had the right of way to go straight, the self driven car was making a left. It must have sensed that it had the right of way, I proceeded straight, and it sped into it’s left turn and almost caused me to crash into it. As I swerved and it passed I clearly saw into the full front seat that there was no driver… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @ToJ How does one exchange insurance info with a self driven car? Or how does one arrest a hit and run self driven fleeing felon? I know! Shoot it until it is dead, and then overwatch the corpse to see who comes to claim it!

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB…Local golf course says their carts typically make two full rounds. They say they would feel comfortable with an eight to ten mile range. I do see some in some of the retirement communities .

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @OV, I’m thinking that if I could attach four solar panels to a golf cart, hooked in series, it could recharge any where, given time and sunshine. Attaching two solar panels to the roof would be easy, but in series it would only be 24v. I have to figure out how to attach two more solar panels, in series, attach a charge controller, and then connect that to the batteries. I should look like a real “prototype”, if I can figure out how to do it. I could park it by the house, attach an inverter, changing the volts to… Read more »

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB… You need 12 volts to charge 12 volt batteries. 10 or 15 amps should be sufficient to charge your batteries . Picture a water hose say 1 inch fastened to a barrel (to fill the barrel ) how long it takes to fill the barrel depends on how big the barrel is. The size of the exit hose (the motor) and the size of the barrel determines how long the motor will run . When you connect in series you add voltage , when you connect in parallel you increase the size of the barrel . (amperage) Amperage increases… Read more »

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB That should be inverter to change DC to AC Should have used the word from between AC > DC

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @OV, I knew what you meant. The charge controller is a limiting factor. They are 30 amps, but the solar panels put out 8 or 9 amps. So three solar panels, in series, are ok. Four solar panels, in series, produce to many amps for the charge controller. But three solar panels in series are 36 volts, not enough. Four solar panels in series are 48v, but too many amps for the charge controller. I have not figured this out yet.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB…Google Patriot Power Generator They show a 1800 watt solar . they deal with home depot . They are showing one with a suit case package and looks like one panel , might do every thing you are looking for . About 1500. bucks. They may have already done the work for you . That might keep your cart running indefinitely .

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @OV, I researched the Patriot Power Generator. Not big enough. I think this is like anything else, if you want “it” done right you have to figure it out yourself, assemble the right stuff…yourself; and put it all together… yourself!
    Corporate America wants to sell something that has a nice fat profit margin. I want something for the day that the SHTF.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB…I see where Dana Loesch has moved her family because of death threats, You have room don’t you ?

    Repo
    Guest
    Repo

    I’ve often wondered the same thing you guys are. Another thing I’ve thought of is what would happen to the range of tho golf cart if you had multiple alternators driven by the wheels as they spun while driving hooked up to recharge the batteries. If they were over driven by gear ratios to spin even faster than the wheel speed they would be even more efficient. There is also no reason you can’t have more than one per wheel either. Could you ever get to the point that you matched the amount of electricity being used? What about using… Read more »

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @REPO My father-in-law was an engineer at Boeing he and I used to discuss using a motor to belt drive a generator , he said I was trying to invent a perpetual motion machine . He unfortunately no longer around to ask. He said what I was trying to do would run but slow down and not be able to recover because of mechanical loss. Now that was before solar generation so I don’t know if a solar boost would be enough to overcome . He was the engineer I worked utility which is totally different and also different from… Read more »

    Repo
    Guest
    Repo

    @OV I’ve heard the perpetual motion machine thought from others I’ve mentioned this to. I just wonder if you can add enough alternators and overdrive them enough to overcome the mechanical loss of driving the alternators? What if you rigged like 100 very efficient alternators to a very efficient brushless drive motor? At some point I think you could overcome the mechanical loss. Then if you started adding in solar panels who knows… I may have to get off my butt and try a small scale version with r/c cars

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @Repo…Solar might be the key because it is a power source .

    Repo
    Guest
    Repo

    @OV I agree solar might be the key but I still want to see if you can get to the point of efficiency being higher than the power loss caused by mechanical drag of the added alternators. At the very least I think you could extend the range considerably. If you got 10 miles out of just a full charge of the battery then each alternator added to the drive wheels should extend the range. If you use the most efficient alternator and drive motor and experiment with gear ratios and maybe even a constant velocity trans/pulley system to run… Read more »

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB&Repo…I would say if you can get it done more power to you . You might be the next Billionaires !!! See you on the Shark Tank .

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB…As far as your four panels being to much voltage, you could install a resistor or voltage regulator to adjust the voltage to what you want it to be. If you have a hobby shop close by they could figure how big the resistor should be, in series it would reduce the voltage.

    Mike
    Guest
    Mike

    WB, your 4 panels in series will give you 48volts without increasing the current. Connecting them in parallel increases the current. Three 12v 10 amp solar panels paralleled, would yield 12 volts at 30 amps. Those same three in series would yield 36 volts at 10 amps.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Mike, Oh is see. That is the answer. Thank you.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @Toj… As always follow the money ! We need total disclosure of monies paid to any office holder and term limits !

    Rodger Tucker
    Guest
    Rodger Tucker

    Whos gonna have egg on their face when those who do not realize yet that ,,,, you can hook your thumb / finger on your belt loop and do the same thing (same principle) as the “slide fire”.. Check it out on “youtube.com”

    Repo
    Guest
    Repo

    Don’t tell them that or next they will ban beltloops,pants,and fingers…

    tomcat
    Guest
    tomcat

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see them go after the AR. That would be a big problem because of all the people that own them. Besides, they are fun to shoot and the ammo is reasonable. I haven’t killed anyone with mine, has anyone here killed anyone with there’s.

    Herman
    Guest
    Herman

    It is like anything else someone back has to ruin it for the good people. We can’t buy sinus pills that works because a meth head decide to use this pill for the bad. Just like this guy he used the bump stock for the bad. Don’t punish the good for what the bad does.

    Squirrely
    Guest
    Squirrely

    Sure, it’s not an Automatic rifle but the amount of firepower, in fast succession is comparable. And as far as it’s accuracy is concerned, in most of these cases, it wouldn’t matter, as long as it’s in the general direction of the target crowd, it’s going to cause massive casualties with a sweeping motion.

    Debra Bradshaw
    Guest
    Debra Bradshaw

    Would you allow the “RESPONSIBLE CITIZENs” TO HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS because after all “we are responsible citizens” the one bad apple theory is becoming passe’ whether we like it or not! Plus who really needs a frigging machine gun???????????????????

    Repo
    Guest
    Repo

    Nuclear weapons are not bearable arms.. 2nd it wasn’t a machine gun and it’s not the 2nd amendment of needs. If I’m law abiding I will be with a bb gun, a machine gun,or a nuke. The problem with the nuke is you can’t use it for anything. You can’t target practice with it because you can’t sight it in when it obliterates the targets. You cant hunt with them becasuse the deer always come out overcooked and dry. And finally you can’t defend you house or property with them because no house or property left to defend after. On… Read more »

    tomcat
    Guest
    tomcat

    Repo
    Good post she is definitely out in left field in more ways than one. Just the same liberal upchuck.

    Charles Drapo
    Guest
    Charles Drapo

    Maybe fat people shouldn’t have forks because they are killing themselves. Same dumba** mentality.

    explainist
    Guest
    explainist

    single shot forks are kosher, but who needs an automatic reloading fork to eat a cake? ghost forks can reload 30 times in one second…

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Debra B, Most nations can not afford nuclear weapons. No corporation or private individual can nuclear weapons. No private person could even afford the maintenance on a nuclear weapon. Thus the hypothetical is just foolish.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    Hey Squirrely, spray and pray only works in Hollywood movies. What you suggest really only converts money into sound.

    The Other Jim
    Guest
    The Other Jim

    How about that Traitor Paul Ryan? He said because of Las Vegas he is shelving indefinitely all NRA backed bills to include silencers and HR38 Reciprocity.

    Tim
    Guest
    Tim

    Sure, you have no argument so you go with the largest dumbest question you can come up with…
    Who really needs anything other than food, waters & shelter?
    A bump stock does not equal a “machine gun” but there are many people that like to have fun shooting at paper targets…
    What do you do for fun than can be thought of as excessive fun to someone else?
    And who are you to take away freedoms of anyone?

    Repo
    Guest
    Repo

    We can thank the media if another person uses a bumpstock the same way. They were a novelty that few people owned and even fewer could get them to work. Nevermind hitting a target with it. Now the are sold out everywhere and everone that never knew they existed will have one.. thank the media for the next one.

    Marilyn
    Guest
    Marilyn

    When the hell are the going to address the real problem. MENTAL HEALTH. My mother committed suicide with pills. These people are sick, evil but mostly mentally not there. Spend the money on helping those people instead taking this stuff that does not good away. NOTHING in the laws would have stopped him. NOTHING. Now the democrats get one more feather in their cap. SHAME ON NRA. Give the an inch and soon it will all be gone.

    Tim
    Guest
    Tim

    The real problem here is false flags & Left Wing acceptable murder to further a power based agenda…

    Texas Strong
    Guest
    Texas Strong

    After reading all of the comments there is a conclusion that hasn’t been addressed. You cannot predict a transition from mental health to dysfunction with specificity and advance notice unless you own a functioning crystal ball. The gun laws we have and those added in response to tragedy have never consistently stopped a tragedy such as this. Enforce the laws we have, if see something say something, educate the public to be more aware of emotional/mental function changes in family members, and exercise your second amendment rights. More people have been protected by a licensed gun owner than harmed. There… Read more »

    Brad
    Guest
    Brad

    30,000 Americans commit suicide with guns. They are not protected by them; they are killed by them.

    Paul
    Guest
    Paul

    Would you prefer pills,rope,or drowning? Does the means make a difference?

    Jon
    Guest
    Jon

    There are many ways to commit suicide. I would rather have someone off them self with a gun then drive a car head on into my family or someone else’s! That sounds cold I know but why should innocents pay the price? Here is a liberal cause for you; why not spend the money on mental health care vs. illegal immigrants?

    BClinton
    Guest
    BClinton

    Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. I DARE ANYONE to put a fully loaded automatic weapon on a table with NO ONE Touching it and tell me how many people it kills. How many people are killed by motor vehicles each year by drunk drivers? How many people have been killed by airplanes each year? Thousands of people did in 9/11 because of airplanes – I think we need to ban airplanes. We should ban knives because of how many people die from stabbings. We should ban ALL pharmaceuticals because of how many people die from them. We should… Read more »

    Tony
    Guest
    Tony

    More than 30,000 unborn children are butchered apart daily in the USA, and their body parts are sold off, like pieces from a junked car! Wake up America!

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    And finally, ladies and gentlemen, we out another troll who, instead of coming forth honestly and admitting to being a Liberal and saying he disagreed with everything gun owners believed in, sneaked in like a thief and pretended to be a gun owner, trying to quote the Founders and finally, when confronted by several with his own contradictory statements and links (Salon etc) is outed for who he really is. I give you all the latest incarnation: Kurtis the troll.

    joe
    Guest
    joe

    i used to be a fed. i saw the laws being encroached, twisted, abused and ignored. yet the supervisors just turned a blind eye. you can use a shoestring t do the exact same thing as a bumpfire stock and a stick as well. you are not going to pass laws and get rid of evil, if that were the case the democrat side of the aisle would be empty. look at how many people have abused the law and not been prosecuted, feinstein, mccain, maxine waters, both clintons, mel watts, etc.. on and on. the only thing the elite… Read more »

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    Amen brother. As a brother LEO who saw how the Secret Police operated in Belize, when no one had the means to resist, I can say that you never want to be in that position.

    Donald Davis
    Guest
    Donald Davis

    AmmoLand, All I want to do is order a Bump Stock for my AR. I am a responsible owner. The only shooting I do is target shooting.

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    Donald: As someone who has one and has had it for years, don’t waste your money. Is it fun? Yes. Is it easy to use? No, it takes time and practice. Are they accurate? Not really any more than full auto fire is accurate. Full auto fire is used as suppressive fire or as a last ditch effort to repeal an overwhelming force. Right now they’re selling on Gun Broker for three to four times retail. Do I want them banned? Absolutely not. I want no gun laws at all. They have never worked and never will.

    Repo
    Guest
    Repo

    My preference would be the binary/echo triggers. They function like a stock trigger but give you the ability for quick controlled pairs and with practice pretty quick repeat shots for some range fun if you want it. They seem to have a legitimate function,are still safe and accurate.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    Donald Davis …sounds like a bait , much like the marshals up on RUBY RIDGE !!

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @OV, Yep, and I am sure that the feds cruise these waters to discover potential conspiracies.

    Pete
    Guest
    Pete

    You could put a bump stock in a fixed vice, put a zip tie around the grip and press in (1) direction against the fore grip to initiate rapid fire with one hand. It’s clever and circumvents the laws that regulate what mechanisms are “inside” the firearm by achieving rapid fire by adding a mechanism “outside” of the firearm. Full auto fire is never accurate or well aimed. It doesn’t need to be to cause a lot of casualties obviously. Slide fire bump stocks are a way to circumvent laws by adding external mechanisms to transfer the energy of a… Read more »

    Pete
    Guest
    Pete

    Sorry for double upload.

    Heed the Call-up
    Guest
    Heed the Call-up

    Manage firearms like electricity? Do you gey criminal background checks to purchase batteries? What about solar panels? You know how dangerous automatic power is. And solar radiation is very dangerous, deadly even. We need to regulate who’s allowed out and for how long. Trucks have no potential energy? Oh, that’s right, it’s the fuel inside them that has it. Regulate who can fly? That worked great on 9-11, right? You proved again it’s the person not the object. No law or regulation has ever prevented stupid people from doing stupid things. Back to regulating electricity… no laws prevented my idiot… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Pete, the various governments have authority to regulate zip ties. The various governments are forbidden by the founding fathers’ document called the Constitution from so much as infringing on the People’s Second Amendment enumerated Civil Right have and carry arms.

    Pete
    Guest
    Pete

    The “bump stock” is a device that adds a mechanism to the exterior of a gun’s firing mechanism that allows the energy of the round to assist in the rapid firing of the weapon by allowing the force to move the firearm in a direction that releases pressure from the trigger (which becomes just another lever in the mechanism). The pressure against the trigger (lever) is provided by the opposing hand pushing the firearm away from the shooter and the trigger into the fixed object (which in this case is a finger gripping the sliding stock). The finger could be… Read more »

    Roy D.
    Guest
    Roy D.

    You probably could have written what you wanted to say in one paragraph. Only thing is, I’m not sure that you know what it was you wanted to say.

    Pete
    Guest
    Pete

    True, but there’s so many stupid, politically driven *arguments about guns it would take a novel to really address them all (plus my battery crapped out halfway through and kinda screwed me up). *For example, “Guns don’t kill people, People kill people”. Which implies (to millions of people whose logic does not go beyond bumper stickers) that guns, minus the intent to do harm are rendered harmless. When the fact is many are killed each year, including children, by irresponsible gun ownership or simply dropping a loaded weapon. It does not require any intent to harm. Sometimes all it takes… Read more »

    Heed the Call-up
    Guest
    Heed the Call-up

    Pete, and heroin is dangerous and deadly. Maybe we should regulate that, too? Oh, wait, we do. How is that working out? As far as bump stocks, if you were as knowledgeable as you try to appear, you’d know that you don’t even need an external device to get the same effect as you would with the bump stock. Plenty of videos showing how to do that, too. It seems that maybe we need to ban online videos and the Internet. Why should we stop at the 2A when we can save so many other lives by banning the First… Read more »

    Roy D.
    Guest
    Roy D.

    I remember that after the Murrah bombing there were many decrying the availability of “The Anarchist Cookbook.” It is all about “feels.”

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @pete …Even a grenade is not dangerous until someone pulls the pin !

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @OV I think that pete is more of a danger to me or at least my civil rights than any DOD issue munition. They do not go off of their own volition. But pete does.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB…Yes he sounds as if his last name might be Pelosi .

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @OV, brings new meaning to the phrase “for pete sake” . For example: Explain in extreme detail and use little words, for pete’s sake!
    Hey, If I hooked up a solar panel to the roof of an electric golf cart could I keep the thing charged up? I am thinking that those four big 6 volt batteries are designed for deep deep discharge and then complete recharge regularly.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB…Yep you would be correct. look at how those experimental solar powered cars are configured , light weight, as few wheels as possible , overly large panels, etc.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @OV, I am thinking that if there were no electric grid systems, then a couple of solar panels hooked to a charge controller hooked to charge the golf cart batteries
    would be the transportation of the future. But I don’t know enough about electricity to figure out how to match up the solar panels to match up to the charge controller , and to match up to the golf cart batteries. Can a 12v and 8 amp solar panel hooked to a charge controller charge up a 48v (unknown amps) golf cart battery set?

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB…The voltage should be equal, but the amps could less . 10 -15 amps should charge your batteries but it would probably be very slow from panels. I’m just trying to learn about panels myself. Think of the range of the cart , a golf course is what 7000 yds. or there abouts I’m not sure the cart would get you back to the ranch. Don’t know how much you can get from panels or how large they would have to be.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @OV, 1760 yds in a mile. 7000 yards is less than 4 miles. That would not serve my needs. Might be ok in a small to medium size city. Make a eight solar panel charging station at home. Attach a couple solar panels to the roof for a little on the road charging, might be ok for around town. Well, I guess pay the property tax or buy another rifle, instead!

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB…Not sure if the golf cart has an efficient enough motor. Those experimental cars that college students are testing have specially built motors and a lot of gearing to increase the tork to the wheels.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB…Might be interesting to see if anything comes out of Puerto Rico in the form of transportation.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Pete, “A sword is but a tool… in the murderer’s hand.” All tools are inanimate. Guns, hammers, howitzers, wine bottle, a piece of wire don’t kill people. The proof is that none of these existed when Cain killed Able. The only common denominator between murder then and murder now is… the person that murders.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB…You could add batteries connected in parallel to gain run time but more batteries equal more weight .

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @OV, Yeah, and where would a guy put enough extra batteries on the golf cart to make a difference?

    Repo
    Guest
    Repo

    A moving truck has plent of potential energy in it and you may be able to tell a parked truck from a moving truck but how do you tell when it’s being driven by someone that’s going to drive it up on the sidewalk before they do? I must have missed the post where people were advocating for arming 4yr olds because I’m only aware of it being a tragic accident when that happens but you sound like we want fisher price to make baby’s 1st handgun. The comparison to other devices that kill is to point out the hypocrisy… Read more »

    Pete
    Guest
    Pete

    Sure there is an ulterior motive behind many people who want to ban all guns from all citizens. They are one extreme. The other extreme is that guns should have no regulation, and that includes automatic weapons and that guns are no more dangerous than a car or a hammer. Both extremes prevent rational choices to be made. This oversimplified, politically driven attitude is why many innocent people and children are killed seemingly every week if not every day. Name one other thing with comparable potential energy that we bring into our homes besides firearms. Electricity? Natural gas? We sure… Read more »

    Repo
    Guest
    Repo

    You didn’t address that we have gun regulation right now . 20,000 + gun laws and counting. Automatic weapons are highly regulated. Every purchase thru a licensed FFL requires a background check in all 50 states and at gun shows. Private sales makes up a small amount of transfers and some states still require the transfer to go thru a FFL or govt agency. Until recently antigunners were claiming 40%of sales were done without a background check. In the past 2 months they have switched to 1 in 5 or 20% Still to high but why the sudden change with… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    Pete, If you want to regulate firearms, you have to have a Constitutional bases. The Founders did not provide one. In fact, the founders went so far as to say that the Peoples’ Civil Right shall (meaning obligation) not be even so much as infringed on. You know fringe, like the edges.
    As to the little girl and grandma’s purse that is just scrounging around for some kind of vague moral justification to replace the nonexistent authority that we have already discussed.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @pete…Tell you what pete before you come preaching to us , you stop all the death occurring by abortion , then come back and we’ll talk !!

    tomcat
    Guest
    tomcat

    Pete, bla, bla, bla same old horsesh*t all you shills post. Oh, that is the memo you get from the high and mighty that jerks your chain. Go somewhere else and petal your far left crap.

    pete
    Guest
    pete

    If you knew me, you’d know I’m not left, but if it makes you feel better about your views to think I’m a puppet and you’re the independent thinker, knock yourself out. It’s a free country.

    But don’t tell me where to go or where I can and cannot voice my opinion. You do not have that right.

    You sound like a fairly uneducated, angry person. I hope there aren’t any children around when you leave your guns in your purse.

    pete
    Guest
    pete

    Just read your “plane comment”. What if he crashed a plane into the crowd. Well, I’d say we’d have to start regulating who can fly planes and what kind of planes and where they can fly them to help minimize risks.

    Oh wait. We already do. Otherwise he might have flown a plane into the crowd.

    Repo
    Guest
    Repo

    I think his point was no law or regulation or background check would stop a private pilot from crashing their plane into a crowd if they wanted too.

    tomcat
    Guest
    tomcat

    Pete, I didn’t get this old by being stupid. You are stupid and do not realize it because you have swallowed the anti-gun b.s. and march to the leftist beat.

    I won’t comment to you again because you are a waste of time and there is no changing your stance because you are not intelligent enough.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @pete, Would it be alright with you if I suggest that you read the constitution and some case law? It is kind of like reading the directions on a can of soup. You would not make a can of soup without reading the directions, and expect it to come out right, would you?
    PS None of us are angry people, but we have all read the Bill of Rights, and know how things are supposed to come out. So when an amateur soup maker comes along and tells us how it is supposed to be, we get annoyed.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @Pete …What you know about High Voltage Electricity you could put in a thimble and it would rattle like a BB in a box car. 220 volt is a low voltage used in some house hold appliances. It is not a single wire, and they reduce voltage to110 to protect Dumb Asses like you !! And yes you could fasten a slide fire stock in a vice with a wire tie on the grip and it would function as designed . The slide fire stock does not move to make it function . It is the upper receiver and barrel… Read more »

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @pete …I misspoke every thing moves except the grip and the stock, the stock allows the buffer tube to slide inside the stock .

    Produceguy
    Guest
    Produceguy

    A well regulated militia , being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    The reason it’s the 2nd amendment is so the people, the people can protect their 1st amendment. Look a society that can’t protect itself from their government is a society that is at the mercy of that government.
    No laws would of stopped what happened. He would of found another tool.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @Produce… He tried another method!! He tried to shoot incendiary rounds in to two large tanks of jet fuel.

    nicephotog
    Guest
    nicephotog

    Neither side-fire or psychotic drugs mean much in that shooting in Las Vegas! Two problems stick out. 1. The position of the festival in such a range of hotels is an extreme contravening of ethical conduct by organizers! NEVER, force anyone to require to think in such an action in post disaster situation there could ever be “primitive psychology reactionary rationale” that can explain such a massive. 2. The rooms in such high rise places/positions need better screening . Hotels can be considered to be large population congregation areas not dissimilar to the sidewalks alike Boston Marathon and other gatherings… Read more »

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    AS I posted the other day there was an interview of another unnamed MGM “Security Guard ” “Regarding our High Roller VIP Guest we are not allowed to question, touch, or inspect their luggage” . You won’t be seeing it on any main news media.

    Rammy
    Guest
    Rammy

    Hi,
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    Rammy

    Anthon
    Guest
    Anthon

    I should hope the ATF paid close attention to the number of fatalities compared with the amount of time the shooter had available when considering this. This isn’t going to make the delicate happy, but let’s run the numbers. 72 minutes, 60 fatalities. That’s one fatality per 72 seconds, or a Rate of Fire of 0.83 Rounds per Minute. There were a whopping 527 injuries (plus 60 fatalities), or about 8.1 Rounds per Minute, one every seven seconds, somewhat competitive with an untrained English Longbowman at 35 lbs draw weight. The brown bess is about twice as slow at 3… Read more »

    nicephotog
    Guest
    nicephotog

    Think carefully, i just found “the pot calling the kettle black” as usual !
    The following article from Australia (as any other monarchy or dictatorship) commits its usual self-profession of victory based only on it took what it wanted for its purpose and gave an excuse to the people!
    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/how-australia-beat-the-gun-lobby-and-passed-gun-control-20171003-gytvn4.html

    Here’s “some of” its (Australia’s)’ true identity to violence post 1997 gun ban !
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-13/murder-charge-womans-alleged-stabbing-frenzy-paddington/8523560
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-11/man-faces-multiple-attempted-murder-charges-car-into-funeral/7922050
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-03-17/driver-to-face-multiple-attempted-murder-charges/2653578
    https://tenplay.com.au/news/national/june-2017/murders-charges-after-man-killed-on-his-birthday

    Australia is neither a democracy or a capitalism , “to wit” no real ability(rights) to defend EITHER commercial. or personal property critical to the economic well-being of the owner – worker.

    hijinx60
    Guest
    hijinx60

    Everyone is focused on the guns. I can’t help but wonder why. The guns were the tool, not the killer. When a truck was used to mow down a crowd, does anyone here know the year, make, or model? What about the types of aircraft on 9/11? The real problem was the person behind the trigger in Las Vegas. I repeat what I often say in these situations, you can’t legislate morality or sanity.

    Joey
    Guest
    Joey

    It was an automatic transmission on that white van

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    They made several changes to the airline industry after 9/11. Also changes have been made to reduce the possibility of using vehicles as weapons. The most obvious ones that come to mind are the restricted vehicle access to Federal government facilities and the complete ban of vehicle traffic on Pennsylvania Ave in front of the White House. As for the SFBFGS, I think it is a waste of energy to debate an agency definition, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. This argument can be applied to the manufacture of drugs in personal residences, such as… Read more »

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    You appear to be operating under the assumption that the NRA is the authority here. It is not, the Constitution is. The Second Amendment is not about hunting or target shooting. It’s about having the ability to resist a malevolent Government. In order to do that you need the same arms the government has, period. If you have a problem with law abiding citizens owning full auto firearms then you are part of the problem, not the solution. People who use ANY item in the commission of a crime are criminals and we have laws to deal with them. If… Read more »

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    Oh no, the NRA is as far out there as you are I am sure, but they do fight to put guns of all types in the hands of people who shouldn’t have them due to mental or competence issues. You need to read the constitution because the second amendment has nothing to do with using guns against the government. You probably picked that up at your last dooms day meeting. Are you still stuffing canned food and water in your crawl space?

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    .”….but they do fight to put guns of all types in the hands of people who shouldn’t have them due to mental or competence issues….”

    So, you’d like to finally go down that road would you? I’ll be happy to oblige.

    Please cite to fact that assertion.

    Sandy
    Guest
    Sandy

    The 2nd Amendment is NOT abut hunting, and only partially about self-defense – it is about arming the population against a tyrannical government. The NRA, btw, armed poor blacks in the south to protect them from Democrats trying to KILL them..Try some history. The NRA doesn’t put guns into anyone’s hands except the aforementioned.

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    You have not cited any sources for the crap your spewing, so you first…

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    Sandy educate yourself then get back to us. To take your point seriously, we would need to accept that the framers were promoting possible revolution against the US government. a well regulated militia to protect the state not protect the people from the state..

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    I knew this was coming, a “no, you first” and then you’ll divert from the topic etc. This took a while to flesh out but, finally, you’ve come out with pretty much what I expected. You don’t believe in either the Constitution or it’s accompanying Bill of Rights except when it suits your purpose. You’re not a Conservative. However, we do know what you are and that’s okay because we enjoy conversing with all. It would just be appreciated if you’d say upfront, “hey, I’m a Liberal and I’d like to have a reasoned discussion”. Instead you approach through deception… Read more »

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    https://www.salon.com/2012/07/25/the_nras_war_on_gun_science/

    More on NRA suppression of the study of gun violence

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    Well as you saw when you posted you adios I posted articles and video to back up everything I said here. I am a gun owner and don’t care about 99% of guns for sale today. You say adios and put your hate label on me because you know that you can win in this debate. You have been bested, i guess, so you turn your back and skulk away like a child that has been scorned. I did ask you to go first, as an adult you shouldn’t ask someone to do something you are not willing to do… Read more »

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlXX-3kx0Xc

    YouTube video, Don Raso explaining why the bling should be able to carry firearms.

    Oh look my right to free speech is awaiting moderation… Is this like a 7 day waiting period?

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    I normally don’t reply once I’ve finished but, you posted articles and a video? Where? I see none here?

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    I’m at a total loss. The link came through and just proved you wrong. Or are you saying you know more than Don Rasso and he’s not making sense but your, so far baseless, accusations are?

    As for the Founders and their intent, here’s a little reading for you:

    http://www.constitution.org/leglrkba.htm

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    Ah yes, Salon. Just one question, what expertise in firearms, exactly, does the CDC have? What courses have they taken? What Instructor’s do they have? Answer to all of the above, none. Guns are inanimate objects and the CDC says they’re a disease. Your credibility rating is falling faster than the stock market during the depression. You say you’re a gun owner. I rarely say this, as a matter of fact this is only the second time, but I don’t believe you. Now it is goodbye, you’ve proved nothing.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @Kurtis…As you just stated the additional protections were put in place for those in the swamp who already have paid armed guards !!!

    PhilC
    Guest
    PhilC

    I expect this will change shortly. Witness what they did to the AutoGlove.

    Jon
    Guest
    Jon

    Look beyond the gun. It has been used for both good and evil. In this case the tool chosen was a gun. The shooter was evil. Therefore he did not need a gun to commit an heinous act. So for a moment let me take you to the liberal magical place where no one has a gun, nobody. They have never existed in this world! Everyone happy now? Back to the evil a**hole who sees 22,000 people compacted into about a half mile square area with little means of quickly escaping and wants to harm them. It has been reported… Read more »

    Randy
    Guest
    Randy

    You sound like a person who knows very little about firearms or the laws and regulations governing the industry. Even without a bump stock a semi-auto gun can be fired only a couple of seconds slower. New laws are not the answer. We already have enough laws on the books that if the government had the resources to enforce all of them would turn this country into a dictatorship. What does a person who is intent on killing care about a law? As far as access, people have forgotten what happened in France a couple of years ago were terrorist… Read more »

    Mike
    Guest
    Mike

    Thank you Randy for articulating clear, simple logic. Agree 100%

    Jim
    Guest
    Jim

    No, no restrictions. If I ever have to take on a tyrannical government, I might need this and better.

    kevikens
    Guest
    kevikens

    I am sorry, gentlemen, but I must part company with you on this. I have seen these firearms being fired. They have become, for all intents and purposes, fully automatic in performance. Anyone who has heard the sound of the gunfire on the video and audio of the shooting clearly understands what those firearms had become. I suggest you get out in front of this right now. Support legislation making components that allow a semi automatic to fire as rapidly as a fully automatic weapon unlawful to manufacture, sell or possess within the US. The joy and pleasure of shooting… Read more »

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    And, respectfully, opinions such as yours are the exact reason we have 22,000 + gun laws in this country today. Please explain to me why there should be any restrictions on law abiding citizens owning any types of firearms? Your very premise is that if we allow people to own them they will misuse them. That is now and alway has been the mantra of the gun control crowd and it is now and always has been false. Are their bad actors? Yes, they’re called criminals. Let’s stick with the facts: Since 1934 there has only been one confirmed report… Read more »

    Sandy
    Guest
    Sandy

    Those laws to which you refer already EXIST…..BAD GUYS DON’T FOLLOW THE LAW……Bad guys can always get the guns. That was automatic fire as he changed the firing mechanism. So, why are you a liberal commenting on a firearms website? Do we have some info-ops going on here?

    tomcat
    Guest
    tomcat

    @kevikins, you can depart all you want to but what if this crazy decided to fly his plane into the crowd. That is a bigger weapon and it would have slaughtered many more people. You are outrageously out of tune with reality .

    VE Veteran - Old Man's Club
    Guest
    VE Veteran - Old Man's Club

    I take it you would have us all using single shot blunderbusses then? Or how about a bow and arrow? The Founders wanted the populace to have access to the same weaponry as the professional army has. Why? They were smart enough to know that standing armies are tools of the government and despots could wield them to the detriment of the people. They lived through that with the British. The government has been incrementally infringing on our right to be armed since 1934, and its always been the Progressive Socialists doing the infringing. FDR was a progressive! Stop with… Read more »

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    “The Founders wanted the populace to have access to the same weaponry as the professional army has.” What constitution are you reading? The second amendment states that “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” The founders, not the supreme court, intended for private citizens who were part of a militia to be able to keep and bear arms. And at the time they were single shot weapons. When freedom and democracy are threatened, a patriot knows to pick up his… Read more »

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    And we will now return to manual printing presses to adhere to your version of freedom of the press. Oh, no computers either.

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    It is better to remain silent and though a fool that to post the above response and remove all doubt.

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    Don’t bring up muzzle loading in reference to the Second Amendment and you won’t have to follow your own advice.

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    Learn to shoot and you can protect your home with a pistol instead of an automatic rifle

    Sandy
    Guest
    Sandy

    A true patriot keeps his weapon well-oiled and ready. The militia, fyi, IS the people…try reading Mason in the Federalist papers. The 2nd Amendment is for keeping the government governed BY the people.

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    Mine was a quote from Martin Van Buren and the second amendment has nothing to do with who runs the government as long as it is an American. Read it again Sandy, you may need to look up some of the bigger words.

    Paul
    Guest
    Paul

    Kurtis does not of what he speaks The only refuge left for those who prophesy the downfall of the State governments is the visionary supposition that the federal government may previously accumulate a military force for the projects of ambition. The reasonings contained in these papers must have been employed to little purpose indeed, if it could be necessary now to disprove the reality of this danger. That the people and the States should, for a sufficient period of time, elect an uninterupted succession of men ready to betray both; that the traitors should, throughout this period, uniformly and systematically… Read more »

    Paul
    Guest
    Paul

    “If you do not get in front of this and support federal legislation to do this a number of states, anxious to pass ever more restrictive controls, will initiate far more restrictive legislation in other areas of gun control and are likely to be successful.” See , there is your problem . States ALREADY do that . Now you just want the feds to join in . Do you seriously think states will back off if the feds enact stronger gun laws ? They won’t . it will embolden them though. Now , if you want to force laws because… Read more »

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @kevikens …What if he had flown his plane into the two large jet fuel tanks, you would be talking about 22,000 casualties !

    Caymus
    Guest
    Caymus

    It’s time to be responsible and not shilly-shally around about technology that allows semi-automatic weapons to fire as fast as fully automatic weapons. The Vegas shooter had 12 of these bump stock devices and was able to kill and wound 600 people. That’s not OK and not what the founding fathers had in mind with the Second Amendment. Gun owners must act responsibly and sensibly to the needs of the public. If you want to fire automatic weapons, go to a facility that legally allows you to do so.

    Clark Kent
    Guest
    Clark Kent

    So YOU were around when the Founding Fathers wrote the 2nd Amendment? You DO know that RIGHTS are God given; predate and are independent of ANY government(s) and are NOT subject to the whims of the ‘needs of the public’? What if the ‘public’ decides Jews should be sent to concentration camps to be thrown into gas chambers? What part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED don’t you understand? How old are you; twelve?

    Joey
    Guest
    Joey

    I view the 2nd Amendment as a prohibition against government action…a complete ban against any attempt to wield a governmental power against the people’s existing right to arms. Government only has the powers transferred to it from the people; and the power to infringe upon our right to arms is expressly forbidden in the Constitution.

    The Government is powerless to act BY DESIGN.

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    well just guessing from you comments and poor grammar if the “public” did decide to do that I am guessing you would be goose stepping your Jewish neighbors down to the local collection depots.

    God isn’t real.

    Roy D.
    Guest
    Roy D.

    If God isn’t real then those Jews aren’t really Jews. People like you are so simpleminded I wonder how you make it through the day.

    Patrick
    Guest
    Patrick

    I agree , Although I don`t know what specific restrictions other then a total ban would have prevented this latest massacre , I think it proves there is a need for some control over who can obtain these type of weapons . I do support the 2 nd. amendment and hope there is a way to control this madness . Pray for the family’s of those killed and the many that were wounded .

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    No, there is no need for any restrictions whatsoever, unless of course you also support strict control over who can rent a truck so we can stop those pesky terrorists from killing 89 people and injuring 200 more? Or possibly really put the screws to anyone who wants to buy a pressure cooker? “Hey, you, Yeah you on isle 6, have you had a background check? Get away from those until you do!”. Now do you guys get the point? Geez I hope so before you let Liberals completely gut our freedoms.

    Patrick
    Guest
    Patrick

    Hundreds of people were attacked and 56 killed by a deranged monster with dozens of modified assault weapons and you make these absurd comparisons . You sir and people like you who think every one , including nut cases , has the right to purchase as many machine guns ,hand grenades ,mortars and other assorted weapons designed for mass killing should have the right to purchase them with no restrictions . That thinking only goes to support those that would eventually take our right to exercise our rights under the 2nd. amendment .

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    They’ve been on that road since 1934 and all we do is offer concession after concession. Exactly when do YOU, as a gun owner say no more? What is that point for you? When we’re down to bolt action rifles? Single shot rifles? What’s your “no more” point of no return? Do you even have one? History is a very good teacher and is replete with the failures of those who capitulate to mob mentality. We’ve learned a lot since 1938. At least some of us have.

    VE Veteran - Old Man's Club
    Guest
    VE Veteran - Old Man's Club

    @Patrick – Hey dork boy. The dude bought all of his stuff LEGALLY! AND HE HAD NEVER BEEN CONVICTED OF A CRIME PRIOR TO THAT BECAUSE HE PASSED ALL OF HIS BACKGROUND CHECKS! So leemmeesee – you want stricter gun control – move to Paris, they have the kind that you guys want. Just remember to hoist the white flag when something violent happens and you’ll blend right in. The Gun Control Act of 1968 addresses every one of your concerns, and guess what? IT DOESN’T WORK! Plus every other stupid gun control law you can name doesn’t work. It’s… Read more »

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    VE Vet,

    we resort to name calling and yelling when we know our arguments are lacking substance.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Patrick, Don’t forget the tanks, armored vehicles, and warplanes that Americans have the Civil Right to own! Hey, I can get you a good deal on a British Centurian, but the shipping is expensive.

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    try to get a commercial drivers license, there are a lot of restrictions on driving trucks.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @Kurtis…You mean you flunked out on the CDL TOO ??? What kind of new laws do you suggest for my Hazmat ticket ?

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @Kurtis … They regulate the people as well as the trucks , probably good thing in your case.

    Tim
    Guest
    Tim

    I’m an advid gun owner and hunter. I tend to agree there is no need for bump style stocks or binary triggers. I don’t think they should be regulated by ATF, but in everyday use for sport or hunting they are not standard equipment. I also believe every eligible person who can legally own a gun or have a CCL has the responsibility and duty to do so. Any gun free zones for public should be done away with. If everyone carried no one would be shooting each other.

    Repo
    Guest
    Repo

    I just ordered my bin are trigger before they become illegal or triple in price. I think they are great for controlled pairs or small bursts or some range fun. I can see controlled pairs being beneficial in self defense but anytime you are spraying ammo you are wasting it and probably missing your target unless they are penned in a small area like the concert goers. I think a law abiding citizen should be allowed to have binary triggers,suppressors,and full auto rifles. If a criminal wants one they will steal,build or buy on black market and no law will… Read more »

    Rick Ellison
    Guest
    Rick Ellison

    I don/t recall the 2d Amendment placing restrictions on automatics weapons. Did you get the revised editions?

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    it also did not include those weapons, so we could limit the amendment to the guns of the period….

    Sandy
    Guest
    Sandy

    there were multiple shot weapons in that period…you are very vapid in your historical knowledge of anything to do with weapons.

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    Ohhh vapid, that is like a $20 word. Since I am not trying to entertain you the word vapid doesn’t really apply here but I will give you a D+ for your effort. Yes, Yes there were some weapons that used cartridges but they were the exception and get you no were near the argument you are making that the framers had the AK-47 in mind when writing the second amendment. Let’s go big picture here.

    Sandy
    Guest
    Sandy

    ah no, lib, if you have half-a-brain, it is quite easy to get a CDL. You are quite condescending in your historical remarks…ever read the Federalist Papers? You need to….the 2nd Amendment was put in place to avoid the very thing that started the Battles of Lexington and Concord – GUN CONTROL. What do you think had just happened when the Founders wrote it, hmmm?…ever hear of the Revolutionary War, which, was fought not only by the Continental Army but by the those people YOU would call…the peasantry….?? Funny how a rag tag group of “rustics” defeated the most powerful… Read more »

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    Yup, and I’m certain you support background checks before anyone can buy a car or truck, right? Or is it that you’re really not concerned with the number of people killed just what is used to kill them? That’s just a tad, shall we say, hypocritical.

    Kurtis
    Guest
    Kurtis

    Yea Tim, you should be more like Vanns40. He doesn’t care about the number of people killed or what they were killed with. Maybe if more people carried these weapons we could be talking about the dozens of people shooting back at the hotel killing another 59 or so. Lets all get on board with Vanns40 and realize the only amendment that is out of line here is the right to free speech because that is the only way proponents of “automatic weapons” can win a national discussion, by not having one at all.

    Sandy
    Guest
    Sandy

    The only discussion libs want to have is confiscation….and you are in company with Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, the Sandinistas, Fidel, and all the rest of the continuous conga line of morons that fell that, as BHO said in his acceptance speech, “we are the ones we have been waiting for”….you socialists simply practice the insanity of the past.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    So Kurt, are you a Marxist or a Maoist communist?

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @Caymus… Mentally deranged people should not be out on the streets because its politically correct .