Power of the 25 ACP: The Thin Line of Inadequacy

Less frequently seen today, the 25 ACP is still used in concealable pistols, like the LWS Seecamp. The question is: is the 25 ACP a viable self-defense round, or has it been overshadowed by the .380?

Power of the 25 ACP The Thin Line of Inadequacy
I collected as much 25 Auto ammunition as possible, including all available hollow-point offerings.

U.S.A. -(Ammoland.com)- Pocket 380 pistols are today's thing, as much as pocket 25 ACP handguns were yesteryear's mainstay of many a self-defense regimen. Today we associate the “quarter bore” with cheap, throwaway pistols and a complete lack of power to do anything. For a long time, I have wanted to see tangible evidence for that reputation. What I received were hand-me-down stories and cliched one-liners.

Why should I care about the performance of a round few people use anymore? Well, the 25 is still more common than you might think. Millions of pistols come chambered for the puny round. Collecting vintage 25s and treating the gamut of pistols still in circulation as range jokers is fine, but there are a few legitimate reasons to know how the 25 would stack up if you had to use it.

Like myself, you might think the 25 to be a legitimate deep cover pistol. For others, the reasons are less about interest and more about circumstances that chose the 25 for you.

Power of the 25 ACP The Thin Line of Inadequacy
The recovered rounds left to right: Fiocchi ball, Hornady XTP, Fiocchi XTP, Speer Gold Dot

A Bit on the Cartridge

Concealed carry handguns are a fad that never fades. In the late 1890s, tiny 22 and 32 caliber revolvers were popular items for personal defense. By the early 1900s, semi-automatic pistols became more available and people soon wanted a pocket version to carry.

Fast firing, fast loading, you get the picture. But pocket pistols were a long way off from today's popularity. In the heyday of firearms, the preference was to match a tiny cartridge to an oversized pistol.

John Browning broke this cycle when he developed his slide operated pistols and was quick to adopt a pocket version for his new tailor-made cartridge, the 25 ACP for the Browning M1905 pistol. The cartridge was reliable with its semi-rimmed case for sure extraction and a centerfire case to up it over the rimfire 22s that were so popular.

By today’s standards, a fifty-grain bullet traveling at only 750 feet per second isn’t much, but it was more substantial than many of Browning’s pocket pistol competitors at the time. Browning spawned many imitators and the round was a big hit with the civilian market. 25s were even issued to various militaries in minor capacities.

A good 25 ACP pistol was easy to hide, easy to fire, and very affordable, which eventually made the type targeted by the 1968 Gun Control Act. This banned the import of many pistols and started the 25s decline in popularity.

The increased reliability of 22 LR ammunition did the quarter-bore no favors. Today only a few companies make 25 ACP handguns, but there is still quite a variety of ammunition available. With a good sampling of ammunition, I packed up my LWS Seecamp, a 10% calibrated ballistic block from Clear Ballistics and went to the range.

Power of the 25 ACP The Thin Line of Inadequacy
The top of the block. A modern art masterpiece but also a lesson on the thin line of inadequacy.

On The Range

To know the round’s true potential in any repeatable, legally testable way, it boils down FBI protocol. That protocol is between 12-18 inches of penetration of a 10 percent ordinance block and four layers of denim.

Finding full metal jacket 25 ACP is easy enough at your local outdoor store, but finding good hollow points is a challenge. I ultimately ended up with Remington UMC and Fiocchi’s 50 grain FMJ loading and the 35 grain XTP hollow-point offerings from Hornady and Fiocchi. Speer Gold Dot 35 grain hollow-points round out the test.

1st was the 50-grain, shooting all the ammunition through my Caldwell Chronograph to find out how much velocity each load was imparting. More velocity—or bullet speed—should, in theory, lead to more impact on a target.

Power of the 25 ACP The Thin Line of Inadequacy
The heavier ball rounds did the most damage and penetrated the most. The hollow-points never expanded and did even less damage and fell short of penetration, despite higher velocities compared to the full metal jacket rounds.

25 ACP Velocities

LoadVelocity (Avg of three shots)
Remington 50 grain FMJ856 fps
Fiocchi 50 grain FMJ718 fps
Fiocchi 35 grain XTP1029 fps
Hornady Custom 35 grain XTP911 fps
Speer Gold Dot 35 grain HP947 fps

European made ammunition is loaded hot. This is true comparing Hornady’s offering with Fiocchi, but the same firm’s ball ammunition is significantly behind plain store-bought Remington 50 grainers, my favorite load.

With some data, I was expecting the full metal jacket rounds to do well, perhaps even the Fiocchi 35s with speed that I couldn’t believe out of a two-inch barreled Seecamp pistol. I set up my gel block and stuffed one end with four layers of denim—I wasn’t much into blue jeans anyway. I fired a total of six rounds into the block from two feet away to avoid a less-than-ideal hit.

Not close enough, I can tell you. The Remington round, though it landed squarely jettisoned from the block at the seven-inch mark did very little damage upon exiting the block. Speer’s bullet tumbled end over end toward the end of its travel, stretching the cavity as it came to rest 10 3/8 inches in the block.

Surprisingly, the hot Fiocchi XTP performed the least climactically with a relatively narrow path to its short 9 ½ inch stop. It, along with the Hornady round tumbled and landed base first, but the Hornady managed ten inches.

There was no expansion on any of the hollow-points.

With the Remington round lost, I fired two Fiocchi FMJ rounds into the block. I expected a little more than eleven inches of penetration. What amazed me was the stretch cavities the FMJ bullets gave. The stretch cavities for both rounds were a solid inch in diameter and extending three inches in the block, a few inches upon entry.

Power of the 25 ACP The Thin Line of Inadequacy
The post-mortem is beautiful to look at, but as you can see, no round made it to the twelve-inch mark.

Still A Place for the 25 ACP?

Twelve inches of penetration is what I needed, minimally, for the cartridge to be acceptable for self-defense. Where does this number come from when many of us are not twelve inches thick from chest to back? This takes into account side shots, the presence of bone, and other stoppages that the bullet has to get through to reach vital organs. It is an approximation. An approximation the 25 ACP has—at this time—failed to meet.

Proper shot placement will make up for relatively poor ballistics. It is worth noting some of the downsides of the 25 ACP. A similar test using common brand 22 LR ammunition in the same sized handgun gave me similar results, with more than a few brands including CCI Stingers, exceeding the requirement. The 22 LR, both in ammunition and firearms, is far more available now. It also appears to have an edge in power too.

I would be confident that the Remington 50 grain load would achieve the requirement. But when you are relying on one of several loads to get performance, you really are in a bad way. This ammunition's lack of performance is the sacrifice for a tiny, low-recoiling pistol.

Ultimately, I left the range thinking the little 25 deserved better loadings. There are still some good reasons to choose a 25. The size of the pistol is one of them, being infinitely more packable than any small 380 we have today. Though 22 LR has come a long way, the 25 ACP is still packed into an equally small package and remains more reliable thanks to its centerfire construction. The 25 ACP is made for tiny pistols. The 22 LR isn’t.

As we leave it, the 25 ACP is still an inch short of meeting the FBI's minimum requirement of 12 inches of penetration. Speer Gold Dots and FTXs are great, but they are simply not appropriate in the small-caliber rounds. However, these rounds are loaded warmly. One has to wonder what a full metal jacket loading at those speeds could really do. Until that magic loading comes, this quarter-bore fan will be on standby.

Terril Hebert

About Terril Hebert:

Terril Hebert is a firearm writer native to south Louisiana. Under his motto—Guns, Never Politics—he tackles firearm and reloading topics both in print and on his Mark3smle YouTube channel, where he got his start. He has a soft spot for ballistics testing, pocket pistols, and French rifles. When he is not burning ammo, he is indulging his unhealthy wildlife photography obsession or working on his latest novel. Scourge of God, published in 2017.

  • 28 thoughts on “Power of the 25 ACP: The Thin Line of Inadequacy

    1. This is always a funny conversation. .22lr endures the same BS. Fir the record Inown a plethora of handguns from .25, .32, .380, .38, 9mm, 40 S&W, 45, .357, and 10mm.

      All will kill a human.

      I first bought a Raven in 1982 in Houston. Still have it. Cost $40 back then new. Also bought the nickel job for $50. The blue has a teflon like coating. No matter, neither ever jammed, both have iver 250 rounds each fired theough them and both are still with me for whatever reason.

      My guess? Wouldn’t get wnough for either to be worth the effort to sell them. I last shot them abou 8-9 years ago. Original in every way. I used winchester white box ammo and bith shot 100% with no issues.

      For fun, I shot and old hardback book about as thick as an encyclopedia (remeber those?). Penetration was about 2/3 into the book point blank range.

      Unless you are tougher than an encyclopedia and believe it would go deeper in you let me know. We can always test it out. I’ll even give them to you if we get to try and either fails to go say 6-8” in depth with you wearing a t shirt and light coat. Any takers????? Didn’t think so…..

      Are they anywhere near a 9mm or even modern .380 in performance? No. Will they penetrate you and send you to the hospital if you survive the shooting? Yes. The accuracy of the raven is pie plate at 10 yards. Said another way, it gives the shooter up to 7 chances (6+1) to poke enough holes in you to ask for the last rites. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

      These two are now 36 years old, original springs and foring pins and they go bang everytime. Would I prefer this over any other handgun I own? Not even close but, unlike the dumb a comments like “just piss em’ off, or “you’ll only anger him I’m not buying it. Thousands died from these or Bryco, Jennings ad nauseum wouldn’t have kept making them. To utter either of thise statements makes you a fool. Better to keep your mouth shut than to open it and remove all doubt.

      Their oroblem is that the .380’s are the new .25’s. Roughly the same size, weight and capacity. I woukd prefer either my G42, Taurus TCP, or Ruger LCP II over any Raven but, if I only had that Raven with me I wouldn’t welcome being on the other end? 4-6 rounds of .25 ACP at close range is going to stop the majority of miscreants one might face and while I would wholly recommend saving thise pennies for a .380 or sub-compact 9mm if its all you have well, it’s more than a poke in the eye. Its 6-7 holes going 7-10 inches into you rapidly. Ouch to say the least.

      Macho talk would be better replaced by common sense. Don’t believe me? Buy one. Get a 2×4 and shoot it. I think the bullet went either theough or almost so. Don’t think people are stronger than a 2×4. I know their neck, throat, mouth, stomach, nu sack, thigh and head aren’t.

      Funny no one ever made these say 10% hotter. Might make a very anemic cartridge interesting for some but, based on economics alone, .380’s are roughly the same in cost, 9mm even less. Hard to justify using this cartridge unless it is truly all you have and in that case, learn to ise it well. It will work if you really do your part well. 6-7 tries at bat is usually enough for anyone with a little practice

    2. Those old Colt & FNH pocket pistols really are tiny, but for me the .25 ACP just doesn’t have enough power to depend on. I would like to see some tests of the .25 NAA round from North American Arms though. Ditto for the .32 NAA. They’re a .32 ACP & .380 ACP case necked down to .25 & .32 caliber respectively. It’s basically the same idea as the .357 Sig, just smaller. Still, my first experience with the .25 ACP was when I was a kid shooting with my grandfather. Our target backer was an old piece of plywood that had some indoor/outdoor carpet on it, and the FMJ’s simply bounced off. That pretty much told me all I needed to know about the .25 ACP.

      1. @morris quimby…if you think so. me not so much . my late father used to tell me make sure you are right then go a head on. you sound like you are trying to convince yourself .

      2. @morris q, Very noble sentiment, but you are being guided by sentiment just the same. Perhaps you could add, to the recipe, just a little dab of … thought.
        No, no, I am wrong. You just keep on what doing what you are doing, but don’t vote. Voting makes people feel sad, very, very sad.

      3. @MQ… One reason the .357 MAG was developed was police officers were being shot and killed after they had already hit their assailant with the .38 special. Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it .

      4. @mq…We will try this again as later posts have gone thru after my previous attempt. One reason the .357 MAG was developed was that police officers were being shot and killed after they had already put a .38 special into their adversary. But you go ahead and do what ever you feel.

    3. After seeing this ,I’m Thinking a 40 Grn. 22 mag is not as bad a I thought. But alas I dont have a pistol just a Savage bolt

      1. In my testing, off the shelf 30 grain HP and 40 grain FMJ from CCI cleared thirteen inches with enough upset to be mistaken for 380 ball. I have a video on it, but it is probably worth retesting.

    4. Great article..I have a couple of 25 calibers..one is an old Walther Model 5 which still operates flawlessly and a Beretta 950BS. Easy to conceal and at least some protection. Thanks

    5. Thank you for the test.
      In the 25 defence, I am not looking to kill.
      But as they say, make the bad guy stop what he is doing. With arthritis and the ability to conceal it is still desired to look at the 25’s and 22’s to carry. As a up close last line of defiance it is good enough for me to consider.

    6. At 25 yards I can still hit more center mass off hand with my 25 950 jetfire than any other pocket pistol (380 keltec, 380 S&W bodyguard, 38 642 S&W, lc9 ruger) I have.

    7. Good article. Thanks. I also like your channel!

      I collect little 25’s. They are a lot of fun and some of them very innovative. In the days before penicillin they probably had a lot more “fear value” than now.

    8. The only thing a 25 ACP is good for is close in work directed at the face. A well placed shot in the face area usually ends the fight. 22’s work well for this also.

      1. To answer your question, I hunted for Glaser Safety Slugs and the folks that produce them don’t even catalog them anymore. The only one missing that is theoretically in production is Winchester 45 grain Dynapoints and I simply couldn’t find them anywhere.

    9. As far as I’m concerned, the .25 is the favorite tool the ghetto-corner pimp uses to wing or intimidate his rivals without killing them. I all it the “Pimp Popper.”

    10. Would the 25 benefit from the copper bullets with grooves such as Lehigh defense? If the bullet is more active on contact, would it improve lethality?

      1. Yeah I would like to see what a Federal HST, Cor-Bon DPX or even a Hydra-Shok in the 60-65 grain weight range loaded to 1200 FPS or so would do. Lethality is not the goal, it is to optimize the expansion and penetration from a short barreled gun at arms length distances. I believe the potential is there to achieve adequate ballistics for a pocket pistol.

      2. It probably wouldn’t make much of a difference unless it was loaded to the 850 fps level of the Remington ball or better. It can be done. But who will do it?

        1. I think YOU should do it and invent a new caliber. Put the 25 caliber projectile in a 22 magnum size case and call it the 25 Magnum. It would easily go over 1000 FPS.

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