Irrational Responses to Armed Defenders in Church ~ VIDEO

Opinion

Texas Church Incident Shows How 2A Stops Mass Shooters
Texas Church Incident Shows How 2A Stops Mass Shooters

Arizona -(Ammoland.com)- The recent use of arms by a skilled, armed defender, Jack Wilson, in the West Highway Church of Christ in White Settlement, Texas, was recorded on live stream video. (below)

In spite of rapid attempts to suppress the video, it has been made available to the world, via social media and the quick actions of freedom-loving activists.

The actions in the video are crystal clear. An armed, skilled, volunteer congregant stops an active murderer with one shot after two of his friends are shot and killed. The entire action happens in six seconds.

The defender acted with skill and grace under fire. Within a few seconds, several other armed congregant volunteers converge on the downed murderer.

None of the chaos and multiple deaths, predicted by those who wish a disarmed population, happened, in spite of several armed, volunteer, congregants.

The actions and video are one of the clearest refutations of the arguments of those who want a disarmed population, that has happened in recent years.

How have those who want us disarmed, responded?

Their first, and most common response, is to retreat to their fantasy of a world without guns. From flobalob, comment at dailymail.co.uk:

Three people died because of those guns. If there were no guns nobody would have died.

There are many variations.  From a comment by RedRobinHood in the dailymail.co.uk:

 Wait a minute , the NRA made sure a madman had a gun in the first place.

This is a fantasy position. Guns are a 600-year-old technology. Even with draconian controls on guns, it makes little difference in the number of illegal guns or homicides. Gun restrictions may reduce the number of legal guns; the number of legal guns has no relationship to the number of illegal guns or the rate of homicide.

Gun bans have not reduced homicide anywhere in the world. They may have reduced murders with guns, but even that is doubtful. It did not happen in England and Wales, where it has been extensively studied. The academic works of Joyce Lee Malcolm and Constable Greenwood in Cambridge, show that clearly.

The number of guns in a country and the gun homicide rate do not show a meaningful correlation. That argument begs the question: what is the point of reducing legal gun ownership if it does not reduce the homicide rate?

The fantasy, held by most supporters of a disarmed population, is there is some magical policy that will make guns disappear. They say, no guns, no killing with guns. It is magical thinking, especially in the United States, with a population of 330 million, 430 million guns, billions of rounds of ammunition, and the skills and tools to produce guns and ammunition in millions of garages, hobby centers, small shops, and homes.

Essentially they are putting their fingers in their collective ears, yelling la,la,la,la… They don't like guns and they demand they go away. They expect to be able to change the reality by wishing for a different reality, where guns do not exist, cannot be made, smuggled, or sold on the black market.

The fallback position is to claim more infringements on the Second Amendment will somehow reduce the overall number of violent deaths in society. Because homicide deaths, including homicide deaths with guns, have dropped with increasing numbers of guns, this argument depends on the number of deaths by suicide. Here is the response put forward by Moms Demand Action, the Bloomberg funded group pushing population disarmament. From momsdemandaction.org:

Once again, the gun violence crisis in Texas is in the spotlight after two people were shot and killed at a church in White Settlement on Sunday. Gun violence kills more than 3,000 Texans each year, and the rate of gun deaths in Texas increased 14 percent from 2008 to 2017.

If we look at more data, we find there was an enormous drop in both homicide and suicide (and homicide and suicide with guns) from 1991 to 2017.

The Texas Homicide rate 1991, was 15.3 per 100,000, according to dps.texas.gov.

Using the Orwellian term “gun violence” which lumps together justified homicide, murder, suicide, and accidents, the Moms' figure for “gun violence” is 11.5 per 100K, including all causes, with 62% of that figure being suicides.

The rate of suicides with guns dropped by 23.6% from 1991 to 2015, according to The Trace, hardly a pro-Second Amendment publication.  The rate of homicides with guns dropped 61.3% during the same period, using the same source. The rate of overall homicide in Texas in 2015 was 4.8, 96% of what it was in 2017, so the firearms homicide rate in Texas is unlikely to have changed much, from 2015 to 2017.

The suicide with firearms rate in 2017 was 62% of 11.5, or 7.13 per 100,000 population, a decrease in the rate.  In 2015, it was 7.3 per 100,000. In 2016, it was 7.28 per 100,000.  These numbers show the relationship shown in the Trace article, has not changed.

The suicide rate with guns, in Texas, is about 24% lower in 2017, than it was in 1991. The homicide rate (all methods) in 2017, is  67% lower than it was in 1991. The homicide rate with guns is about 60% lower than it was in 1991.

In the period from 1991 to 2017, per capita guns in the United States increased from .857 in 1991 to 1.27 in 2017(calculated). A 47% increase in the number of guns per capita in the United States, (The numbers are not available for Texas, separately) resulted in a decrease of suicides by guns of 24% in Texas, and a decrease of homicides (all methods) of 67% in Texas.

The Moms' reach their figure of increasing “gun violence” by cherry-picking the start date of their data, in 2008. 1991 was shown above because 1991 was the peak rate shown for homicides in Texas.

Statistics can easily be manipulated to present the conclusion the author wants.

There is no correlation with gun ownership and homicides, or with gun ownership and suicides. Many countries with extremely low gun ownership have very high suicide rates. Virtually none of the policies being pushed by the people who wish the population disarmed would reduce suicides by guns or suicides overall.

  • Bans of semi-automatic rifles? 1 shot needed for suicide.
  • Bans of magazines of more than 10 shots. The same.
  • Bans on private sales of guns?  The vast majority of suicides have owned their guns for a long time.

The arguments used to counter the usefulness of guns for defense of self and others fail miserably.

Those who want disarmed populations argue from fantasy and emotion because the facts do not support their arguments.

Many want to disarm everyone else because they do not wish to bother with learning to effectively defend themselves or others.  They cry out: I don't like guns! They scare me! Make them go away! Cynical politicians hear their cries, amplify them, and use the emotion to gain power.

The emotional haters of guns need to understand: armed defenders protect them.  Private concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than police.

Guns cannot be removed from society. To think they can is magical thinking.

Reality has a way of intruding on fantasy and magical thinking.

The defensive use of a gun to stop the killing in the West Freeway Church of Christ, is a powerful reminder of reality.


About Dean Weingarten:

Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of Constitutional Carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.

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TexasJD
Member
TexasJD

Well written article Mr. Weingarten! Thank you!

TheRevelator
Member
TheRevelator

Ditto

Jeffersonian
Member

Bush Derangement Syndrome
Trump Derangement Syndrome
Gun Derangement Syndrome

CourageousLion
Member
CourageousLion

Those two UK writers need to address the knife homicide going on in Great Britain. And then ban knives so they can’t eat a steak. But then again, maybe Brits don’t eat food they need knives for. A nation of baby food consumers. And as for the rest, well… There are countless articles and commentators and pundits who fence and tangle, who tumble and roll the slogans and platitudes of gun control, civilian disarmament, public safety, gun violence epidemics, commonsense restrictions, loopholes, Second Amendment rights and other sophisticated and nuanced and ultimately irrelevant sophistries that dance around and completely avoid… Read more »

mgkdrgn
Member

Is it just me, or was the first person shot another parishioner drawing a weapon??

Ansel Hazen
Member
Ansel Hazen

What I read is that he got hung up drawing his weapon and it cost him his life.

Tionico
Member
Tionico

It appears he was in “I can’t believe this is happening” mode and was drawing too late. The perp already had his shotgunnout and pointed AT him. He remains a hero, though, as his drawing caused the murderer to focus on HIM, thus distracting him from the other armed folks, one of whom is the man who took the one shot that put the dirty dog down.

Doszap
Member
Doszap

Yes, he was WAY too nonchalant in his not RECOGNIZING a perceived deadly treat coming. He should have had his hand on this weapon, and partially out of his holster,as soon as the perp started to bring out the weapon, he WOULD have nailed him first.
CONDITION ORANGE at ll times people.
Remember no matter how short the trip,always be armed, always.Also BE aware of everyone around you entering and leaving any place of business or your home.

RoyD
Member
RoyD

Meaning well is never a good substitute for doing well.

Heed the Call-up
Member
Heed the Call-up

Well, he was the first one shot, not because he was drawing a firearm, but because it was he that the killer drew his shotgun on. The first one, as can be seen in the video, was too slow and methodical in his draw. The two that were shot were part of the volunteer church security team, as was Mr. Wilson, the one that neutralized the threat. Mr. Wilson also trained all of the volunteers in the church security team. He is obviously a very good shot, having put the killer down with one shot to the head at about,… Read more »

Tionico
Member
Tionico

and that team had only been formed up and began training about a year and a half ago.

Finnky
Member
Finnky

Second one shot (Wallace?) was to part of the security team. He was simply passing the collection plate. Quite possibly he “triggered” the shooting by correctly refusing to “donate” collection to the shooter.

TheRevelator
Member
TheRevelator

@Finnky
Ok, well that piece of speculation is about as useless as can be.

RoyD
Member
RoyD

“A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.”

TexDad
Member
TexDad

Dean, the way you consistently put facts and reason together into something meaningful is a thing of beauty. Keep writing.

Superman
Member
Superman

Nice try; no cigar. Dean keeps bleating ‘private CCW holders are more law abiding than police’ without providing any verifiable FACTS to back up his claim. Now before the dolts on this forum get their collective panties in a bunch be advised I am calling DEAN WEINGARTEN out, NOT YOU!

Finnky
Member
Finnky

@SM – Do you have no grounding in reality? Disputing well established facts in public forum and expecting others to not respond? Attacking an author for using proven fact in his arguments only continues to dig your reputation further into the ground. At this point you have zero credibility and are simply an annoyance.
As for your original question, why aren’t you also disputing that the sky is blue or requesting proof that gravity exists? Dispute would be just as credible.

TexDad
Member
TexDad

Here you go: https://crimeresearch.org/2015/02/cprc-in-fox-news-police-are-extremely-law-abiding-but-concealed-handgun-permit-holders-are-even-more-so/

That’s John Lott, Crime Prevention Research Center.

Also, “Nice try; no cigar.” is you calling me out. You know who else didn’t cite any sources? You.

TheRevelator
Member
TheRevelator

@TexDad
Couldn’t have said it any better myself.

Superman has a habit of saying the absolute most idiotic thing possible at a given moment. He did the same thing challenging a statement about Virginia’s electoral process a week or two ago (Without evidence of course) and proceeded to have a forcibly applied evidence enema, of which it appears he still hasn’t recovered from.

Possum1500
Member
Possum1500

Tex, you notice old super dupe doesn’t respond when he knows he lost. Just follow him…..you’ll see

Ansel Hazen
Member
Ansel Hazen

You need to stop slurping the kool aid. Not only does TexDad provide you with proof but you have been shown proof in other posts. Keep crying wolf, we’ll keep reloading.

ExGob
Member
ExGob

Are there individuals among us who actually believe there were no murders or suicides prior to the invention of firearms? If you are one of those who honestly believes that eliminating firearms will eliminate murders and suicides, here’s news for you: You are flat out eaten up with a serious case the dumbass.

loveaduck
Member
loveaduck

lol

Heed the Call-up
Member
Heed the Call-up

ExGob, after they “ban” firearms, they will, as has been done in the UK, “ban” knives. Sadly, knife-related crimes have risen dramatically in the UK, and the murder rate has not decreased with the ban on firearms and knives. They also still have firearm-related crime, and from what I have read, even though it is still low, it is increasing. Those opposed to legal firearm ownership do not care about safety and crime rates, they only want a disarmed populous. They want people to be dependent on government, and to get a group that is the most self-reliant to depend… Read more »

Tionico
Member
Tionico

Consider Australia, as well. Once they,, in a panic kneejerk response to the FIRST mass gun murder in their country by banning most firerams, the violent crime rate rose some 65% within a couple years, murders by gu did drop significantly, but of late they are above where they were prior to the “disarmament”. They are now worse off than prior to the ban/registration. And defenseless into the bargain.

No thanks.. NOT HERE

TheRevelator
Member
TheRevelator

@Tionico
In a few select localities Down Under, the violent crime rate (including homicide) rose three times the previous rate (300%) immediately after the passage of those bans in the mid 1990’s.

Tionico
Member
Tionico

True enough. The “news report” of the first murder runs rather differently that what we see in the lamestrame lying media today. Note well: the weapon utilised by the murderer is never mentioned. Nope, not a word. The motive of the HEART is clearly defined. The CONSEQUENCES are also detailed, and they did not include the disarming of anyone else, nor even the perpetrator. Others without that heart condition were never required to limit their weapons acquisitions, nor to register them. No prior permission or approval was ever imposed on the possession of such lethal items. And not long after… Read more »

CharlieKing1
Member
CharlieKing1

I recall an old biblical story about one brother killing his brother with a rock…murder is in the hearts of fallen mankind, not in the tool.

Finnky
Member
Finnky

@ExGob – Semantics… Firearms were invented a long time ago when life was considerably harder. No need for suicide as one only needed to briefly drop their guard or fight a little less to survive, in order to die. No suicide, just a quiet reduction in effort to survive. As for murder – gun fights of Hollywood’s Wild West resemble sword duels of previous centuries. It was considered a fight, not murder. When nothing is counted as murder, there are no murders. Similar to how US is only country with mass murder, because similar events are called something else when… Read more »

RoyD
Member
RoyD

Hey Brits, when you can equip your submarines with your own designed and home built nuclear missiles, get back with me and we’ll talk about guns. The Brits are a joke as far as defense, or offense, goes.

Some guy
Member
Some guy

True, we had to save them from germany twice already, and it might have to happen again.

Doszap
Member
Doszap

Too late the Islamic curse has already taken them out they just DON’T know it yet.
When immigrants begin to patrol your STREETS with no authority,dressed as Cops, and in patrol cars almost the same as the Cops, you’re going to be dead meat.
Also when you cannot even argue with a Muslim without going to jail, IN YOUR OWN country(native Born) you are in DEEP caca.

Doszap
Member
Doszap

I love the Brits, but I wish their SO called experts on firearms would STFU,(ask them about their knife issues) they are idiots.Since they have always been SUBJECTS they are used to being slaves.(I know they are now called citizens, but it’s not the case),say something negative aloud in the UK about a Muslim.YOU will be arrested if reported. In Texas since 1990 to 2018 there has been a DECREASE in murders,EVEN with 10 million more people. Murder rates since CCP( Shall Issue) have been allowed has dropped each year. Total Homicide rates in the USA in 2018 with ALL… Read more »

CourageousLion
Member
CourageousLion

One thing great about the US…we’re not slaves! Even though in many places you need to ask permission to carry a firearm, we all have to ask permission to drive, add on to our homes, pay taxes on our labor, pay taxes on property that we ‘own”, pay taxes on food we buy. We are so FREE!!! No SLAVES here!

Vern
Member
Vern

The lefties and the sheep who follow them don’t need “facts.” They make up their own all the time.
When it comes to reality, fantasy is the only reality they want, the real world scares them. What will they do when reality breaks their fantasy world to pieces?

Vern
Member
Vern

The more evil is exposed, the more, evil, it will get. Mankind has gone beyond the point of return, the scripture will be fulfilled, there is nothing now will stop that from happening.
We have only seen the beginning of how rough the rest of the ride will get.

CourageousLion
Member
CourageousLion

Except the pedo symbol is the exact reverse of the police badge ones. Thus one is against the other, not for it.
But then again…who knows?

Justista
Member
Justista

“Wait a minute , the NRA made sure a madman had a gun in the first place”

I read that all the time but pity the fool who says it in my presence.

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@J, Why? What would be your response to that statement?

Tionico
Member
Tionico

What do you MEAN? I AM the NRA and I did not put that gun into his hands. In fact, I promoted the laws that say since he was a felon in three states, he was prohibited from even possessing any firearm. So HOW did he get that, when WE tried so hard to prevent it? YOU tell ME…….

Heed the Call-up
Member
Heed the Call-up

Tionico, I don’t recall reading in the 2A anything about felons being prohibited. Once your sentence is served, you should have all of your rights. It wasn’t until the 1938 FFA that felons were denied their rights to vote and the RKBA. If the Founding Fathers believed felons should not be able to defend themselves and have the RKBA, they would have written that into the Constitution or law back then. As much as we believe certain people should not have firearms, oddly, with all of these laws prohibiting these “certain” people, all we read about is them having firearms… Read more »

Finnky
Member
Finnky

@Heed – It is easy to argue that denying rights to felons goes directly against the prime purpose of the second. If propose is to enable oppressed people to overthrow their rulers, doesn’t forced disarmament of disfavored people go in opposite direction?
OTOH at the time, murderers were generally put to death – so there were no violent exfelons roaming the streets.

JPM
Member
JPM

Why would anyone with a brain expect rational responses from irrational people (anti-gun liberals and Democrats)? Reason, common sense and logic cannot be used to win an argument with individuals who lack reason, common sense and logic.

Ryben Flynn
Member
Ryben Flynn

The standard distance between the pews (pun not intentional) seat back to seat back is 3 feet.(Yeah, it’s actually a thing) He appears to be about 9 or 10 pews from the bad guy which would be 30 feet or so since the bad guy is against the wall. So 10 yards, maybe 11 or 12. So not an impossible shot for him. I shoot at 7 and 15 yards all the time with my pistol. Not saying I could pull off a head shot that easily, but I do hit the 9 and X ring on a B-27 consistently.

Finnky
Member
Finnky

@RF – Not an easy shot, but far from impossible. Fits right in with my claim that Jack Wilson is just a TTGN (Typical Texas Gun Nut).
Don’t mess with Texas!

Doszap
Member
Doszap

Yeah, a 71yr old man that is /was a licensed instructor, owned his own range and taught countless others how to SAFELY handle and shoot weapons, Yeah,he’s a Typical Gun Nut.He”s in Church worshiping his GOD,minding his own business BUT he’s the NUT?.

Tionico
Member
Tionico

Yup. “nut” in the context of “Texas Gun Nut” describes him perfectly. HE primed the pump that got the security team started, HE did much of the training, HE opened HIS home (including backyard) to others so THEY could become Texas Gun NUTS like he is.

And I say we need millions more just like him.

Finnky
Member
Finnky

@Doszap – Given a title by irrational gun control freaks – I chose to wear it with pride. Nut by itself suggests mental deficiency, but “gun nut” is a compliment.

Whatzit
Member
Whatzit

Then figure in all the adrenaline and nerves, and that was a phenomenal shot! Man, I applaud that guy!

Doszap
Member
Doszap

That response was typical of a HIGHLY trained individual.(I used to shoot 500rds a week of .45 ACP),you get very good when you put that kind of time in.
Also if you can find a place if you own a rifle capable(most are) shoot at distances far longer than usual that SKILL SET is going to come in very handy I fear in the not too far off distance.(I Pray I am WRONG)
Practice as often as you can and not at the same distances, it could lengthen your life substantially.

CourageousLion
Member
CourageousLion

Some people don’t get all aded up in situations like that, they actually become more under control then normal.

Finnky
Member
Finnky

@CL – There is a form of panic in which one becomes overly focused on first possible solution to an emergency problem. Sometimes it’s the right solution and sometimes it is not. If one has fixated on the right solution, panic can appear indistinguishable from remaining cool and collected. Don’t believe that is what happened here, but have personally had the luck to appear calm under pressure a couple times – knowing I am really just a deer in the headlights. Motivation to train up.

Dr. Strangelove
Member
Dr. Strangelove

Every totalitarian society was preceded by the confiscation of firearms. No matter what anyone says, this is the endgame of the left.

Whatzit
Member
Whatzit

Totally. China wants us to scrap our second amendment. All the world looks at us with envy and jealousy because we have freedoms that they do not. The left is peeing their collective pants to join the Marxist One World cluster event, and the world (who is already disarmed) wants us to disarm so we can be defenseless world subjects like them. This is one battle we MUST not lose! The pressure is increasing on us to “turn ’em in, Mr. and Mrs. America!” and we have to stand firm. If we lose our arms, then we are headed for… Read more »

Some guy
Member
Some guy

If you are still talking, you’re already a loser. No amount of voting, talking, or laws is going to fix this. America has a cancer, a democrat cancer, and it has to be cut out and tossed in the incinerator.

CourageousLion
Member
CourageousLion

If we lose our arms, we will then be UNARMED slaves instead of ARMED ones.

Doszap
Member
Doszap

Yep,and if there are enough Patriots left, it could be the end of them.

Arizona
Member
Arizona

If left wing/socialist/democrat ideologues want to remain unarmed because they are afraid of things that go “boom”, that is their right. They can choose to fear, hate, scorn and abhor tools if they want to, but they cannot prevent me or hundreds of millions of Americans from building, buying, owning, and carrying such tools as we see fit to defend ourselves, our loved ones, our property and our freedom. To be certain, they can try. But they won’t succeed, and they will be much happier living in their fantasyland of made up genders, keeping their nose out of others’ business,… Read more »

Deplorable Bill
Member
Deplorable Bill

To go unarmed anywhere, to be unarmed in your own home etc. is pushing your luck. If it is not insanity to d try to disarm the public, then its just plain evil. What is the goal of disarmament? It is much easier to attack a nation if it’s public has no way to fight back. This has been proven true throughout history since Kane murdered Able. That is their goal. Therefor, I will not comply, I will not surrender anything, to anyone, until the LORD returns. The LORD HIMSELF says to be armed. HE outranks everyone else, therefore HIS… Read more »

Ansel Hazen
Member
Ansel Hazen

Past tense my friend. Salami’s ownership can now be referred to as “used to”. 🙂

Ansel Hazen
Member
Ansel Hazen

Hard hitting journalism would be to seek out who is named next in line for ownership of that shipping company. They will probably need to be put on the drone list.

Ansel Hazen
Member
Ansel Hazen

Ok that’s funny! 🙂

CourageousLion
Member
CourageousLion

Oh, come on! Where are you reading this utter BS??? Good grief. Get some help.

Deplorable Bill
Member
Deplorable Bill

Your right, I did not know that. Are you certain of these things? Did you know there are 10,000 hezbollah fighters currently in the U.S.? We live in a target rich environment and most people have no idea. The larger problem is china but that does not mean the islamic population is the U.S. is going to sit this one out.

Arm up, carry on.

Deplorable Bill
Member
Deplorable Bill

Amen.

Arm up, carry on.

Finnky
Member
Finnky

@USA – Please stop spreading uranium lies. Yes Clinton approved sale of uranium stock to Russia – but what was sold was stock in a company which I believe mines uranium. Export licenses were never granted, so no legal export possible. Of course companies do on occasion sidestep the law and it is possible they cooked some books to export some of their product – but doubtful they could ever successfully do so with any amount meaningful for any nuclear capable country. More of a threat in your scenario would be dirty bombs which do not need enriched uranium. All… Read more »

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@Finnky, Were there no profit for her personally, she would not have done it.

tetejaun
Member
tetejaun

These ARE NOT irrational responses from the communist democrats. 1. The communist democrats are angry that armed Americans STOP their murderous fascists. 2. The communist democrats cannot implement the Hegelian Dialectic if armed Americans keep shooting their wound up & set off mass murderers. 3. Banning firearms is all about making the American people slaves in the democrat’s communist America. THIS YEAR, be sure to watch the 2020 DNC Convention. You WILL learn a lot. Also, NOT ONE AMERICAN SHOULD BE IN MIDDLE EAST fighting for these two-faced, back-stabbing muslims. WHY are we so stupid we spend our children and… Read more »

Jonesy
Member
Jonesy

Why the Hell do Americans vote them into Office in the First Place!!??

Justista
Member
Justista

A lot of Americans vote them in because their work free existence, cel phones, health care and subsidized housing and utilities depend on Democrats buying votes with these things. Then there are the Hoplophobic and college indoctrinated, along with those who have grown up with a partisan media and believe without thinking when told legally possessed firearms and law abiding owners need to be disarmed to make us and our children safer. There is also a good number of people who realize they are not responsible enough to keep a firearm and think because of their own thoughts and weaknesses… Read more »

Wild Bill
Member
Wild Bill

@J, Well and truly stated!

Doszap
Member
Doszap

Like minded or plain IGNORANT.

willyd
Member
willyd

Their mother DROPPED THEM ON THEIR HEADS AT BIRTH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!